Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Foreign Affairs
Issue 30 - Evidence
OTTAWA, Thursday, April 10, 1997
The Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and the House of Commons Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade met this day at 3:21 p.m. to hold discussions with the Prime Minister of Lebanon.
Senator John B. Stewart and Mr. Bill Graham (Joint Chairmen) in the Chair.
[English]
The Joint Chairman (Senator Stewart): Honourable senators, members of the House of Commons, it is our great pleasure this afternoon to have with us at this joint meeting of our committees Dr. Rafik Al-Hariri, the Prime Minister of Lebanon. I will ask my colleague from the House of Commons, Mr. Graham, to say a word of welcome on behalf of the members of the House of Commons.
The Joint Chairman (Mr. Graham): Prime Minister, it is my privilege to welcome you here before our colleagues from the Senate and the House of Commons. As you well know, I am sure, there are many Canadians of Lebanese origin that have enriched our country. In the City of Toronto, not only are there wonderful Lebanese restaurants, there are also very successful Lebanese businessmen. There are many Lebanese Canadians who are making a wonderful contribution to our life. A member of Parliament whom you have met, among others, was born in the region. We all look forward to having an opportunity of discussing the regional issues with you. On behalf of my colleagues, and on behalf of all Canadians, I should like to say welcome, and we look forward to your presentation to the committee today.
His Excellency Rafik Al-Hariri, Prime Minister of the Lebanese Republic: Thank you very much for this opportunity to meet with you to discuss the problems we are facing in our region, and to find ways of strengthening relations between Canada and Lebanon.
We are very interested in strengthening our historic relations. Canada has participated several times in assuring peace in our region. We have great respect for Canadian society, and we extend our thanks to you for receiving our people during the difficult days.
The Joint Chairman (Mr. Graham): I know there are senators and members of the House of Commons who will want to ask questions. I assume you are prepared to deal with them, probing though they may be.
I will ask one of our Senate colleagues, Senator De Bané, to say a word or two at this time.
[Translation]
Senator De Bané: Mr. Prime Minister, welcome to the Canadian Parliament. Through you, I would like to take this opportunity to greet the people and country of Lebanon. This is the first time in the history of our country that we have had the honour to welcome the Prime Minister of Lebanon.
The first Lebanese arrived in Canada almost one hundred years ago, and since then, they have made an outstanding contribution to the development of this country. In almost every Canadian municipality, there is a Lebanese presence.
We find Lebanese today in almost every area of activity: academic life, the professions, business, industry and politics.
It is also interesting to note that in Lebanon itself, there are today 50,000 Canadians; 50,000 people with Canadian passports. I would also like to point out that it was a Canadian surgeon of Lebanese extraction who headed the team which saved the life of the Premier of Quebec, when he was struck down by a life-threatening illness.
[English]
I also wish to salute you, Mr. Prime Minister, for your personal accomplishments. Your country has never declared war against any other nation but, rather, has been a victim, having been profoundly ravaged by 17 years of war. You have not tired personally in your efforts to alleviate the suffering of your people. You are a renowned philanthropist. You have founded several charities and, through the Al-Hariri Foundation, you have financed the university studies of more than 30,000 Lebanese students in the West, of whom a great number have studied in Canada. In recognition of your many contributions, during your presence in Canada two renowned Canadian universities will confer upon you honorary doctorates, the University of Ottawa and the University of Montreal.
Moreover, you have accepted the responsibility of serving as President of the Council and as Prime Minister of your country under difficult circumstances, having undertaken this challenge to rebuild your country after a war of 17 years' duration.
I should like, Mr. Prime Minister, to pose to you the following questions: Would you please explain to us the general strategy you have followed thus far to reconstruct your country, the main challenges ahead that are facing your country ahead, and, finally, what are your plans for your country over the next few years?
Mr. Al-Hariri: Thank you very much for all you have said about me and about Lebanon.
Mr. Chairmen, four and a half years ago, I became Prime Minister. The economy had deteriorated and the Lebanese pound was unstable. We started a program to bring back confidence to the country; both the confidence of the Lebanese among themselves, and in their country, and the confidence of the world towards the country. Since then, the Lebanese pound has continued to stabilize and grow stronger. Inflation, which was 120 per cent, today is about 10 per cent. The hard currency in the central bank was less than $400 million. Now we have on deposit with the banks a reserve of about $6 billion. The budget deficit was 90 per cent. We are now at less than 40 per cent, about 38 per cent. We hope to reach this goal in 1997.
We have increased salaries; we have increased social participation. Our program is a phenomenon. First, strengthening the unity of the Lebanese amongst themselves, which is the most important element; second, rebuilding the infrastructure in the country to encourage the private sector to start investing in private projects; third, assuring the security in the country by strengthening the Lebanese army and the security forces; and facilitating investors, Lebanese, Arabs and foreigners, to work and invest in the country.
The situation is now the following: We are importing about $7 billion per year and we export about $1 billion per year. However, the balance of payments is positive, and there is a surplus. This is because there is an inflow of money from investment into the country. People are keen, and interested in investing in our economy.
As you know, we are a democracy. We have a democratic society and a free economy. However, we also have many problems with our laws, and have recently changed many of them. In order to encourage investment in the country, we decreased corporate taxes; we made them 10 per cent flat. Our program for the next five years is to strengthen the small- and medium-sized industries, and also agriculture and industry related to agriculture. We hope to make Lebanon the financial, commercial and service centre in the Middle East.
With respect to education, historically the Lebanese government never reached more than 35 per cent coverage in public education before the war. During the war, this percentage declined to perhaps 10 per cent. We have brought it back to 35 per cent, and now have a program in place to increase it to 85 per cent. We are reviewing the programs. We want to update them. In order to assure national unity, we are reviewing the civil education system and have put out a new book which will help strengthen national unity among the Lebanese people.
However, we still have a big problem relating to the peace process. Part of our country is occupied. We went to Madrid to encourage the Israelis to implement Resolution 425, which until now the Israelis have refused to do. As you know, the peace process is facing a serious problem. We are a people who have suffered much from war. I do not believe in war at all. I do not believe in violence. I do not think war can solve problems. Our country paid a very high price because of war.
We want to have the future of our children and grandchildren assured. That is why we want peace in the region. We want to participate in that peace. We are preparing ourselves for peace. We know very well that Lebanon will benefit most from peace. Our country paid a very high price for the lack of security and peace in the region, but our country, which is a small country, wants to participate in and pay its share for the coming peace.
What is happening now is scary. We are calling and visiting all the countries of the world. I am asking all the leaders of the world to convince the new leadership of Israel that the path it is following will not lead to peace. It will destroy the small confidence which has been built during the last five years, and this is very bad.
Everyone must participate in convincing the Israeli leadership that peace is best for Israel as well as for the Arabs. This is our destiny. We must live together. We have no other choice. Trying to implement things by force is a bad solution. It will lead nowhere. It will only strengthen the extremists and the fundamentalists, and we will all pay for that.
I want to take this opportunity to tell you how much we believe in peace, how keen and interested we are to have peace in the region, and how much we need your help and the help of everyone to convince Israel that the best thing is to live together peacefully and have normal relations among all countries in the region. In that way, we can solve all our problems through discussion, and in no other way.
Mr. Keith Martin: Thank you very much, Mr. Prime Minister, for appearing before this joint committee, and for your very passionate words for peace for the Middle East. We are all deeply saddened by what has occurred in the Middle East, particularly of late.
I have three brief questions: First, what is the current state of affairs with regard to negotiations on the Israeli security zone in south Lebanon? What assurance will Hezbollah give to Israel that further acts of violence will not take place?
Second, you mentioned that agriculture will be a very important producer industry in the future. The availability of potable water is a problem which will be faced by Lebanon as well as all other countries in the Middle East. What actions have been taken to make that available for you? What role can Canada take to help out with the availability of water in the area?
Finally, have any actions been taken by Lebanon in conjunction with Mr. Assad in Syria, who is a very important player in the Middle East peace process? Have your country and Syria jointly made efforts with the Palestinians to approach Israel in a collective way to address the many problems faced by all the countries in the area?
Mr. Al-Hariri: I have here a map of Lebanon. This is the part we are talking about. This is called the "security zone," but security for whom? It is not a security zone. It is Lebanese territory occupied by the Israelis. Israel is here. This is the international border of Israel. The Israelis have occupied part of our country since 1978. Accordingly, the United Nations, including the United States and the Security Council, have passed Resolution 425 asking Israel to withdraw unconditionally from our territory.
Since then, Israel has occupied the territory. At that time, we had Palestinians in the country. In 1982, Israel invaded Lebanon and reached Beirut. The Palestinians left the country. On their way to Beirut, the capital, the Israelis destroyed everything in their way. They later started withdrawing, but kept forces in the southern part of the country. They like to call it the security zone or the security belt. In fact, it is Lebanese territory occupied by Israel. We are asking them to withdraw from our territory.
Since 1982, after its invasion, Israel started to withdraw. When there is occupation in any country in the world, there is resistance. This is the history of humanity. The resistance now is under a party known as Hezbollah. Hezbollah has an ideology with which we do not agree, but this party is fighting the occupation, exactly as was done in France during the Second World War.
The French Resistance worked against the Nazi occupation. This resistance was mainly formed by the Communist Party. President de Gaulle and Prime Minister Churchill sent arms, food, medicine and money to the Communists because they were fighting the occupation. However, after the liberation of France, we did not see the Communist Party ruling France.
Now we have this situation. I came to power and the situation was as I explained. There is an Israeli occupation and there is a resistance led by the Hezbollah. They are in Parliament, and they are in the opposition. We are not on good terms. They oppose everything I do. We do not agree. We have no common political platform, but they are there, and they are fighting the occupier.
From time to time, Israel has said, "Why do you not disarm the Hezbollah?" meaning that we should disarm the ones who are making our life not easy and let them occupy the country and continue the occupation without any agreement. We have said, several times, "Why do you not implement Resolution 425? It would be our responsibility, then, to ensure the security within our borders." They do not want to agree to that resolution. It is a vicious circle. Will the Hezbollah disarm first, or will the Israelis lose something first?
What is happening now in the peace process does not encourage anyone to trust anyone, which is what I mentioned at the beginning of my speech. Because of what happened in Oslo and with the Jordanians, a slight confidence has been built. The people hope there will be a happy ending to this situation, but what is happening now is exactly the contrary.
Prime Minister Netanyahu is insisting on building settlements in East Jerusalem. What is East Jerusalem? Do you know what it is? It is a small piece of land that was given to Bethlehem. If this Jewish settlement is built, the Prime Minister will be cutting Jerusalem from Bethlehem. This area is a Christian quarter; the owners are Christian. If he does this, he will cut off Jerusalem from Bethlehem. This is why he is insisting on building this settlement.
There are many problems to be solved before this. The Israeli Prime Minister must work as fast as possible to settle the problems with the Palestinians, the Syrians and with us.
With respect to potable water, we have water in Lebanon. It is snowing and raining now, so we have enough water. We need the water because we have many villages that need water for drinking and irrigation. However, we also need an investment to help us make better use of our water. Canadian companies can play an important role here by helping us to do that.
Mr. Sarkis Assadourian: Canada is different from Lebanon in some ways, but in many ways we are quite similar. This is a multicultural country. I was born in Syria and my colleague was born in Lebanon. We have many members of Parliament who were born in different parts of the world.
Mr. Al-Hariri: You are all Canadian.
Mr. Assadourian: Yes, we are all Canadian. We all came on different boats, but we are all in the same boat now, and we must make sure that this boat works.
I was in Lebanon in 1967. My wife is from Lebanon. I then went back after 1994, after 17 years of civil war. I saw the destruction, which was horrifying. I cannot describe it. I have never been to a war zone before, but it was terrible. I was told then by government officials that reconstruction was going forward at a good speed. Can you give us an update on the construction activities going on in Lebanon?
I am sure you had a reason for your visit to Canada. It was probably not to meet with us. We are happy about it, but I am sure there is another reason why you came to Canada. Can you elaborate on that reason?
What can we do as a country to promote a relationship with Lebanon and what do you expect us to do? Air Canada does not fly to Lebanon. What are the chances that we can have direct flights from Canada to Lebanon? We have a large Lebanese community here. We proud of them. The ambassador is doing a good job, but we must put forward our views on where we stand on Air Canada and Middle Eastern airplanes.
Mr. Al-Hariri: First, in four years I have made over 100 trips, and have flown around the world. During the war, Lebanon was not a destination that was available. We must bring it back to both the international and the political map. Lebanon has a lot of friends, and we must revive these friendships. This is one of the reasons why I came to Canada.
Second, the economic relations and the Canadian Lebanese living here can be a bridge between Canada and not only Lebanon but also the Arab world. The economic exchange between here and Lebanon is very little. It represents about $50 million or $60 million in trade. We buy from Canada and Canada buys approximately $5 million in goods from us. I hope this visit will help to encourage Canadian businessmen and Canadian Lebanese to do more work and establish more economic relations between Canada and Lebanon. We hope to sign several agreements, such as avoiding double taxation, encouraging investment, and ensuring investment between Canada and Lebanon. We are signing these agreements with all the friendly countries.
As well, perhaps tomorrow, we want to push the discussion that is happening between the Middle East and Air Canada so that people from the Middle East can travel here. We want to encourage that. Our policy is to be open throughout the whole world, and to see the Lebanese flag fly all over.
We are a small country. We need our friends. What we are doing is encouraging those friendships. Besides, these agreements will strengthen the economic relations between our two countries.
Returning to your question about the reconstruction of Lebanon, a big part of the infrastructure is already built, such as electricity. Most of the roads have been rebuilt and the first stage of the airport will be finished this year. The final stage of construction will be completed in two more years. In the central district of Beirut, which was mostly destroyed, the work is on the right track. If anyone who knows the area were to go there now, you would be surprised at the amount of construction work going on in that area. Work is proceeding according to our program.
With respect to Canada, we feel that there are many commonalities between us. We are glad that we came here today. In fact, we should have done so earlier, but it is better late than never.
Senator Carney: Mr. Prime Minister, we appreciate you taking time to meet with us. Your comments are very illuminating and are very helpful to us.
Several Canadian ministers and parliamentarians have visited Lebanon, including our Minister of Trade, Art Eggleton, who met with you just a few weeks ago. What can Canada do to be more helpful?
We recently approved in the Houses of Parliament a Canada-Israeli Free Trade Agreement. Have you explored the possibility of a free trade area with Canada? Is that the kind of issue that could be helpful to you?
Mr. Al-Hariri: We are discussing with Europe to sign a free trade agreement. This agreement will not only be with Europe but it will also be with the rest of the world, and Canada will be at the top of that list.
Senator Carney: Will that kind of measure be helpful to you?
Mr. Al-Hariri: Yes.
Senator Carney: What other measures can we make to assist you? What is your shopping list?
Mr. Al-Hariri: We badly need technical assistance. We need to build also technical schools for our children. Any other economic relations will be helpful, but mostly we need the technical assistance.
The Joint Chairman (Senator Stewart): Did I understand you to say that you are working for a free trade arrangement with the European Union?
Mr. Al-Hariri: Yes.
The Joint Chairman (Senator Stewart): How would that implicate Canada?
Mr. Al-Hariri: It is a similar agreement. We are discussing now with the European Union to sign a free trade agreement. We do not want to make it only with Europe. We want to make it with the rest of the world. Canada would be at the top of that list.
The Joint Chairman (Senator Stewart): You would be prepared to go ahead with us, even if Europe were lagging a bit?
Mr. Al-Hariri: I think we will make it with Europe.
The Joint Chairman (Mr. Graham): Is your agreement with the European Union along the lines of the Turkey-European Union agreement? Is it a sort of association agreement?
Mr. Al-Hariri: No, it is different.
The Joint Chairman (Mr. Graham): It is more a free trade agreement standard?
Mr. Al-Hariri: The Turks want to be in the union itself. There are many complications. They have problems with human rights and with labour. We do not have the same problems.
[Translation]
Mr. Philippe Paré, M.P., House of Commons: Since the election of Prime Minister Netanyahu, the effect of which has been to slow down if not completely block the peace process, Canada has signed a free trade agreement with Israel.
We, in the opposition, consider that it would have been preferable to make the implementation of such an agreement conditional on the resumption and completion of the peace process. Without seeking to place you in an uncomfortable position, could you share with us your views on that?
Mr. Al-Hariri: As you know, the Israelis and Palestinians signed an agreement in Oslo, in September 1993 I believe. This agreement was supported by some people and opposed by others. They subsequently signed another agreement with the Jordanians. Discussions began between the Israelis and the Syrians. And shortly after lengthy discussions between the Syrians and the Israelis, Rabin was assassinated. Peres became Prime Minister and he stated that the peace process was more important than the elections. After three or four months, he stated exactly the opposite. He called an election. He lost that election and Netanyahu became Prime Minister.
Prime Minister Netanyahu has done exactly the opposite. He stated that they want security before peace. Everyone would like to have security. He blocked discussions with the Syrians, and also with the Lebanese. He began to talk, more or less with the Palestinians and then suddenly he opened the tunnel, about which we have heard so much, and all the West Bank from Gaza was practically blocked. Some time after that, he began to say that he wanted to withdraw from Hebron.
They have managed to sign an agreement which was already signed. In fact, he changed the agreement concluded between Peres and Arafat.
And many people are saying: right, Netanyahu has now become pragmatic; he has begun to do something and he must be encouraged. After a few weeks he began the construction of Har Homa, which created enormous problems in the Arab world. The most serious problem here, as you will appreciate, is that there are a few moderate Arab leaders, such as Arafat, President Moubarak and King Hassan II of Morocco who are not hard lines but moderates and really want an agreement with Israel.
Consider the fact that President Hosni Moubarak of Egypt, who concluded an agreement with Israel some 18 or 20 years ago, practically criticized Netanyahu publicly, something which he had never done before. There are as a rule a lot of problems with Israel, but he has never criticized the Israeli Prime Minister as he is now doing.
King Hassan, who was the main architect in improving Arab-Israeli relations has publicly criticized Prime Minister Netanyahu and considers that he is trying to destroy the peace process.
These people consider that this is a difficult time and that something has to be done. We are not talking here about Arab leaders who may perhaps be hardliners and not believe in peace, we are talking about moderates, who would really like to have an agreement with Israel.
Even King Hassan sent a very, very tough letter to Netanyahu because of the position taken by the Israeli Prime Minister.
Mr. Paré: Mr. Prime Minister, if I may, I would therefore like to ask whether, in view of all those developments, it was the right time for Canada to sign a free trade agreement with Israel? Is Canada not sending Israel an ambiguous message? I know that my question may be embarrassing, but I would be grateful if you could very simply give us your views on that.
Mr. Al-Hariri: As you know, Canada may know what has to be done. But what are we ourselves asking for? We are a country which would like to have peace, and we are asking our friends to speak clearly with Israel. Israel cannot continue this kind of policy and have the same relationship with friendly countries. We look to our friends to find a way of making them understand that.
But you cannot have a situation where Israel is criticized by the whole world, and yet at the same time have everyone continue with the same policy and relationship towards Israel.
[English]
Senator Grafstein: I would like to welcome our distinguished guest, and congratulate him on the remarkable job that he has done in renovating and reconstructing his economy under very complex and difficult circumstances. Our Foreign Affairs committee in the Senate is preoccupied with trade issues, and I am interested in the idea that was floated some years ago, and given some currency before the recent difficulties in the peace process, about a regional trade bloc in the Middle East. The theory behind that was that trade is a way of promoting and accelerating the peace process. When people trade, they do not shoot; they trade. What is the current attitude in the Lebanese government towards promoting trade with Syria, for instance? Is there an active trade relationship between Lebanon and Syria, and is it beneficial to Lebanon?
Mr. Al-Hariri: We have trade between Lebanon and Syria, but it is not sufficient because we have different regimes. We have very strong relations with Syria, we are neighbours, but we have a different regime and the trade is not up to the level of our political relations. In fact, senator, we must admit that, in the Arab world, we have a problem. We have not solved many of the economic problems we have among us. The Arab world imports about $35 billion of food products. While some parts of the Arab countries need everything, other parts produce everything. In one part they buy from outside, and in other parts they do not have a market to sell to. We have this problem. It is not easy to solve because of the political differences.
Senator Grafstein: When I looked at the information we received about your export potential, you are high in agricultural products. I assumed that one of the ways of expanding your trade was to sell your agricultural products to your adjacent neighbours, who are in need of agricultural products.
Mr. Al-Hariri: Syria does not.
Senator Grafstein: It does not?
Mr. Al-Hariri: No, it is an agricultural producer. They need to export. For political reasons, they cannot.
Senator Grafstein: Let me turn to your other neighbour, which is Jordan. What are your current trade relations with Jordan?
Mr. Al-Hariri: The Jordanians have started producing now. In some areas they produce more than they need. Sometimes we buy from them, and sometimes they buy from us. The biggest market is Iraq, where there is a blockade, and the Gulf states, where we send a big part of our production.
Senator Grafstein: Assuming the peace process gets back on track --
Mr. Al-Hariri: Let us hope so.
Senator Grafstein: Let us assume it does. I assume it will. Wise men will follow wise courses, and people will do wise things ultimately. It may take them a little time but they will do wise things. My understanding is that there is trade now -- grey trade, if you will -- between Israel and Lebanon. Is there any truth to that?
Mr. Al-Hariri: No. In this area, because of the occupation and because the Lebanese who are living there have no way out, they trade with the Israelis and the Israelis trade with them, but we are talking about a very small piece of land with a very small population.
Senator Grafstein: If we can look beyond the current peace process, do you envisage a trading bloc developing between Syria, Jordan, Israel and Lebanon? Just as we in Canada decided for good reasons to develop a trade bloc with the United States and Mexico because they were adjacent, in the thinking of your government, is there some thoughts of developing a regional trade bloc that would then strengthen local suppliers and manufacturers, and then ultimately develop a free-trade relationship abroad?
Mr. Al-Hariri: In fact, an agreement has been signed among the Arab nations to cancel all the customs barriers between them, starting at the beginning of 1998. I personally do not believe that will happen. I think they will try to do it, and this is very important, but I think it will be very difficult for them to do so.
The Joint Chairman (Senator Stewart): Mr. Prime Minister, I do not know what obligations you may have, as far as time is concerned. Would you be prepared to cope with two or three further questions?
Mr. Al-Hariri: Certainly.
The Joint Chairman (Senator Stewart): Senator De Bané has been waiting patiently.
Senator De Bané: Mr. Prime Minister, before the war, Lebanon was the key financial centre in the Middle East. Do you believe that it is possible for Lebanon to regain that position, and what are the policies you are initiating in order for it to again occupy this position in the Middle East?
If I may, I will put my other question together with that one. As you know, the largest volume of trade between two countries in the world is between Canada and the U.S. The volume of trade between our two countries is over $1 billion per day, 365 days a year. No two other countries have a volume of that magnitude. We have a surplus in our trade with the U.S. It shows you how productive Canadians are.
As you know, Canada has been a supporter of the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of Lebanon; has been very active in the Middle East peace process; is chairman of the refugee w, for instance,orking group, and in the group that you led yourself in Washington on December 16. Our Minister of Foreign Affairs has extended substantial amounts of credit. I know that you will meet with Canadian businessmen in Montreal in a few days. Do you see Canada playing a substantial role in the over $30 billion of reconstruction projects that will be undertaken in Lebanon in the next few years?
Mr. Al-Hariri: With respect to your second question, it all depends on how much Canadian businessmen want to invest in Lebanon. Our country, as you know, is a free country, and our economy is a free economy. Any company can invest in Lebanon with no problem. The only restriction we have is with respect to property. Since the country is very small, the property for foreigners is very limited. Otherwise, anyone can open a company or a branch, and they can operate and be treated equally with the Lebanese.
As I said at the beginning of my remarks, taxes are very low; 10 per cent flat. From our side, we welcome all Canadian businessmen to come to Lebanon and operate their businesses, and we are doing our best to do so. Now the ball is in the court of the Canadian businessmen.
With respect to your question about the financial centre, many countries tried to take the position of Lebanon during the war. I will tell you a personal story. In 1978, I was in business. I tried to make a syndication in one of the Gulf states. I went to sign the agreement in which many international banks participated. I believe one of the Canadian banks also participated. All the representatives were Lebanese.
The Joint Chairman (Senator Stewart): The conclusion, therefore, is obvious.
Mr. Al-Hariri: The point is that Lebanon is not only a matter of a geographic place, which is important, but that it has infrastructure, which means besides roads, hotels and so forth, that there are human resources. The human resources are available. All anyone who wants to operate from Lebanon needs is to come alone. He will find all kinds of professionals in the country, as some of you know.
During the war, this kind of strength has become more rich. Many Lebanese who went abroad during the war studied and worked. It is difficult to go to any financial institution in the world and not find a Lebanese in the top and key positions. They are coming back to Lebanon because there is work. Taxes are low and the salaries are acceptable. Many professional people now can make over $100,000 a year, almost tax free. The life in the country is not expensive.
The Joint Chairman (Senator Stewart): The environment and the climate is excellent.
Mr. Al-Hariri: That is right.
Mr. Charlie Penson: Mr. Prime Minister, you talked earlier about the occupation of part of your country by Israel and the so-called security zone. What is the biggest threat to security in the area? Is it the lack of a peace process between the Palestinians and the Israelis? Is it a threat from Syria? What is Israel feeling threatened about that they need that security zone within your country?
Mr. Al-Hariri: Historically, Israel occupied this part of our country when the Palestinians were there. When I say Palestinians, I mean the PLO. After they were driven out of Jordan in 1970, they came to Lebanon and established themselves. Historically, that is what happened.
In 1978, Israel took the decision to come to occupy part of the country, which they did. The Security Council took Resolution 425, asking Israel to withdraw unconditionally from Lebanon. The Israelis did not implement this.
In 1982, because this occupation did not mean anything, and because it did not ensure security, the Israeli government, a Likud government led by Menachem Begin, and Ariel Sharon, who was then Minister of Defence, ordered the invasion of Lebanon. They reached Beirut and put out the PLO, and Yasser Arafat in particular, and the Palestinians went to Tunisia. They started to leave the country. The resistance started and the Israelis kept what they call now the security zone.
This security zone does not assure the security of Israel. They claim that if there was not this security zone, the Hezbollah would find them. In fact, the Hezbollah exists because the Israelis are there. In reality, the Israelis are strengthening the Hezbollah; as they are doing now by blocking the peace process, they are strengthening Hamas. If you are aware of the local politics, Hamas is the Islamic fundamentalist group.
Then there is Yasser Arafat. What is his situation? He is weakening. Who is weakening him? Netanyahu. Among the Palestinians it is the fundamentalists who are getting stronger. This kind of policy is strengthening fundamentalism, which is absolutely wrong. This is why you hear a president like Mubarek criticizing Netanyahu. That is because Netanyahu, by this policy, is strengthening fundamentalism in Egypt, as well as in Morocco, Jordan and everywhere else. That is the danger of this policy.
The Joint Chairman (Mr. Graham): Prime Minister, I think you were destined to stay with us until 4 o'clock. You have stayed until 4:15. We have more than covered the issues that we wanted cover with you.
On behalf of our colleagues from the House of Commons, we are grateful for your appearing here today. Many of us have been to Lebanon. I was there in 1960 for the first time, when I was a young man living in Vancouver. On behalf of our members, thank you for your personal efforts to restore what we know to be one of the most beautiful cities in one of the most beautiful countries in the world. It is certainly one of the most successful financial centres in the world, even if it is more of a diaspora these days. We wish you luck. Thank you.
Mr. Al-Hariri: Mr. Chairmen, we are looking to strengthening our relationship with Canada. We want you to understand our point of view. We are a peaceful people. We are looking for peace. We will do our best to see this happen. However, we cannot to it alone. We need your help to persuade the Israelis that the policy they are following is not the policy that will lead to peace.
On the other hand, we want to see more Canadian businessmen coming to Lebanon to participate in the reconstruction and development of our country. Thank you very much.
The Joint Chairman (Senator Stewart): For us, this has been a very useful meeting. What has been at the heart of its success has been the candour of the way in which you have dealt with the questions addressed to you. We are most grateful to you for coming. We are grateful for your candour. We are grateful to the presence of the ministers you have brought with you. We all can say that we hope for peace in that area and throughout the world. Thank you very much.
The committee adjourned.