Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Agriculture and Forestry
Issue 1 - Evidence - Meeting of February 10, 2004
OTTAWA, Tuesday, February 10, 2004
The Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry met this day at 5:30 p.m., pursuant to rule 88 of the Rules of the Senate, to organize the activities of the committee.
[English]
Ms. Keli Hogan, Clerk of the Committee: Honourable senators, we have a quorum. As clerk of your committee, it is my duty to preside over the election of the chair. I am ready to receive a motion to that effect.
Senator Fairbairn: I move that our beloved Senator Oliver be the chair.
Ms. Hogan: Any other nominations?
Seeing none, I will put the question formally.
It was moved by Senator Fairbairn that Senator Oliver be the chair of the committee. Is it your pleasure to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Ms. Hogan: I would invite Senator Oliver to take the chair, please.
Senator Donald H. Oliver (Chairman) in the Chair.
The Chairman: Thank you very much. I would now like to call upon Senator Gustafson to make a motion with respect to the deputy chair.
Senator Gustafson: I move that Senator Fairbairn be the deputy chair.
The Chairman: It was moved by Senator Gustafson that Honourable Senator Fairbairn be deputy chair of this committee. Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
The third item on our agenda is the motion for a Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure. The motion reads:
That it be composed of the chair, the deputy chair and one other member of the committee to be designated after the usual consultation; and
That the subcommittee be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the committee with respect to its agenda, to invite witnesses and to schedule hearings.
Senator Ringuette: I so move.
The Chairman: Is it agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried. I will now entertain a motion that committee print its proceedings and that the chair be authorized to set the number to meet demand.
Senator Fairbairn: I so move.
The Chairman: All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
I will now entertain a motion for authorization to hold meetings and to print evidence when quorum is not present and that, pursuant to rule 89, the chair be authorized to hold meetings, to receive and authorize the printing of the evidence when a quorum is not present, provided that a member of the committee from both the government and the opposition be present.
Senator Tkachuk: I so move.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Our sixth item is a motion concerning our financial report, that the committee adopt the draft first report prepared in accordance with rule 104. The clerk has circulated that.
Senator Fairbairn: I so move.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Item number 7 states that the chair will entertain a motion that the committee ask the Library of Parliament to assign research staff to the committee; that the chair be authorized to seek authority from the Senate to engage the services of such counsel and technical, clerical, and other personnel as may be necessary for the purpose of the committee's examination and consideration of such bills, subject matters of bills and estimates as are referred to it; that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to retain the services of such experts as may be required by the work of the committee; and that the chair, on behalf of the committee, direct the research staff in the preparation of studies, analyses, summaries and draft reports.
Senator Ringuette: I so move.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
The eighth motion concerns the authority to commit funds and certify accounts. Pursuant to section 32 of the Financial Administration Act, authority to commit funds be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chair and the clerk of the committee; and that, pursuant to section 34 of the Financial Administration Act and guideline 3:05 of Appendix II of the Rules of the Senate, authority for certifying accounts payable by the committee be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chair and the Clerk of the Committee.
Senator Ringuette: I so move.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Our ninth item is travel: That the committee empower the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure to designate, as required, one or more members of the committee and/or such staff as may be necessary to travel on assignment on behalf of the committee.
Senator Fairbairn: I so move.
The Chairman: Is it agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried. Our tenth motion relates to the designation of members traveling on committee business: That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to determine whether any member of the committee is on official business for the purposes of paragraph 8(3)(a) of the Senators Attendance Policy as published in the Journals of the Senate on Wednesday, June 3, 1998; and consider any member of the committee to be on official business if that member is (a) attending a function, event or meeting relating to the work of the committee and (b) making a presentation related to the work of the committee.
Senator Day: So moved.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Item number 11 relates to travelling and living expenses of witnesses: That, pursuant to the Senate guidelines for witnesses expenses, the committee may reimburse reasonable travelling and living expenses for one witness from any one organization and payment will take place upon application, but that the chair be authorized to approve expenses for a second witness should there be exceptional circumstances.
Senator Tkachuk: I so move.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
The twelfth item, electronic media coverage of public meeting —
Senator Day: Dispense. So moved.
The Chairman: Is it agreed, honourable senators?
Senator Tkachuk: I would like to make a point that I raised in the other committee this morning. In view of the Prime Minister's move to more open and democratic government, the media coverage has always sort of bothered me. It is always as if cameras were not allowed unless they asked permission. Any newspaper person or person with a tape recorder can set up here, but a TV camera cannot.
I was wondering whether the committee would undertake that it would be in reverse. In other words, everyone is welcome unless otherwise stated, rather than the other way around. That is to say, CPAC should be told that they are permitted to come in here anytime unless we have decided to be in camera. There is no reason they would not be here at any time they wish.
I think we have to do this because there is no television in the Senate, so it is extended a little bit to us and it is to keep, perhaps, the power or the influence of the Senate on this matter. The way it reads is that they do not get in unless they ask permission. My view is that permission should be always granted to all media to come at any time, unless stated otherwise.
Senator Day: To all committees?
Senator Tkachuk: At least to ours. Chairman Sibbeston undertook today that that is the way he would operate.
The Chairman: This motion, if approved by this committee, will be taken to the Senate. We will ask the entire Senate for authority to have coverage by electronic media of our proceedings here. In the absence of taking that, it will not be permitted. We just need to get that. Once we go, we do not have to go every single time we want the media to come. We just need it once.
Senator Tkachuk: The motion reads that ``the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered to allow such coverage at its discretion.''
The Chairman: If we are having something in camera or something that is private that we did not want them to televise, we would have the discretion to say, ``I am sorry. You cannot be here.''
Senator Fairbairn: That is my understanding.
Senator Tkachuk: I read it is in the reverse. I do not think they can come here unless you give them permission. To have a TV camera in here, they have to ask.
Senator Fairbairn: Are you talking about a TV camera from CPAC or any TV camera?
Senator Tkachuk: Any TV camera. If members of the media come and want tot cover it, let them cover it. What is the difference?
Senator Fairbairn: I know that, certainly, print media comes in whenever. Do people run tape recorders in here? I never noticed that.
Senator Tkachuk: I do not know if they do, but I think they can.
Ms. Hogan: They will often ask the permission of the committee if they can come in because often with the other cameras from CPAC it may disrupt, but they often come and consult us, in which case, we consult with the chair and the deputy chair to see if it is permissible that they can come in and tape. It is very much at the discretion of the committee.
Senator Fairbairn: This is for radio.
Ms. Hogan: For radio, it is not a problem. They can come and plug in. That is not a problem. However, for TV cameras they need permission.
Senator Ringuette: Because of CPAC?
Ms. Hogan: Yes, so that they do not disrupt the set-up.
Senator Ringuette: Depending on the camera and the lighting. The lighting set-up for CPAC is in such a way that, for instance, CBC would want to come in, and their lighting system would interfere with CPAC. Then no one would get a clear image of what is going on. From that standpoint, I can understand.
The other thing is that with CPAC, anyone can pick up their feed.
The Chairman: Yes. Senator Tkachuk, if we had language such as ``the chair be authorized to seek permission from the Senate to permit coverage by electronic media and all other media,'' would you be satisfied that it be clear that radio and newspapers could come if they so choose?
Senator Tkachuk: I was trying to get at a compromise. We are open to anyone coming, but we could still say ``no.'' However, we would have to know about it. In other words, it would not be permission granted. It is open unless said otherwise. In other words, we could say, ``You cannot come because of CPAC.'' CPAC can only do two at a time. They are rarely here, unless we are getting into some kind of big trouble, right?
Senator Fairbairn: In this current motion, it does not say CPAC. It says ``electronic media.''
Ms. Hogan: The second part, where it says that the Steering Committee has the power to decide whether or not they want the coverage, that is where Senator Tkachuk is saying that the Steering Committee decides to have it unless it decides it is inappropriate to have the TV cameras.
Senator Tkachuk: Exactly. Just in reverse: Yes, unless they say no.
Senator Day: I am not sure that now I understand your argument, Senator Tkachuk.
Can we all agree that the general rule of the Senate is no electronic media in any of our proceedings — either in chambers or here — without the entire Senate agreeing to it? That is the reason for the first part of this.
Senator Tkachuk: No camera.
Senator Day: We have to get permission.
The Chairman: That is agreed.
Senator Day: Everyone is agreeing on the first part. It is now the second part. You are saying that once the Senate as a whole says we can do it, you would rather us say it is a standing rule. We will do it all the time, unless —
Senator Tkachuk: Yes.
Senator Day: Now I understand. I thought you said we should not have to do the first.
The Chairman: I am looking for some wording for the substance.
Senator Tkachuk: Chairman Sibbeston gave us assurance that that would be what the committee will decide. We do not really have to change this. We adopt it as is, and then the subcommittee says, ``Here is the way we will conduct ourselves. Everything is open unless we say otherwise.''
Senator Day: Or you could say to ``disallow such coverage.'' Right now, it says, ``to allow.'' To achieve your point, you could just say, ``to disallow such coverage.''
Senator Tkachuk: Sure. I just do not want to get into a debate with 105 people. If the chairman says that is the way he will conduct business, that is good enough for me.
Senator Day: If that is good enough for you, that is good enough for me.
The Chairman: It was moved by Senator Tkachuk. Is it agreed, honourable senators?
Senator Day: Moved by me.
Senator Tkachuk: That is right; that was your motion.
Senator Day: That is right.
The Chairman: Carried.
On the last item, the time slot for regular meetings is Tuesday when the Senate rises, not before 5:30 p.m., room 705, and Thursdays 8:30 a.m., room 705.
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
If you wish to discuss future business, could we move in camera pursuant to rule 92(2)(e) to talk briefly about the agenda and the orders of reference, and so on. If that is agreed, honourable senators, I move that this meeting be adjourned to the call of the chair, but we will then continue in camera to talk about new business; is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The committee continued in camera.