Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 6 - Evidence - Meeting of May 12, 2014
OTTAWA, Monday, May 12, 2014
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day, at 5:20 p.m., to resume its study on the impacts of recent changes to the immigration system on official language minority communities.
Senator Claudette Tardif (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Honourable senators, I now call this meeting of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages to order. I am Senator Claudette Tardif, from Alberta, and I am the chair of this committee. I would ask the senators to introduce themselves, starting on my left.
Senator Champagne: Good afternoon. I am Senator Andrée Champagne, representing some of Quebec.
Senator Poirier: Good evening. I am Rose-May Poirier from New Brunswick.
Senator McIntyre: Paul McIntyre from New Brunswick.
[English]
Senator Beyak: Senator Lynn Beyak, Ontario.
[Translation]
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Senator Suzanne Fortin-Duplessis from Quebec City.
Senator Charette-Poulin: Good evening, minister, and welcome. I am Marie Charette-Poulin from northern Ontario.
Senator Chaput: Maria Chaput from Manitoba.
The Chair: We are continuing our study of the impacts of recent changes to the immigration system on official language minority communities. This evening we have the great pleasure to welcome the Citizenship and Immigration minister, the Honourable Chris Alexander, and Ms. Corinne Prince-St-Amand, Director General, Integration and Foreign Credentials Referral Office. Minister, welcome to our committee — you have the floor.
Hon. Chris Alexander, P.C., M.P., Minister of Citizenship and Immigration: Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the committee for inviting me here. I appreciate your keen interest on the role of and the importance of strengthening official languages within our immigration system. This brings back good memories of the work we did together in the Canada-France parliamentary group. I am particularly impressed by the members who make up this committee, which represents Canada's best and finest in terms of official languages. You represent, if not all provinces, because there are not enough of you, at the very least some of the largest communities in the country, which should benefit from programs aimed at strengthening official language minority communities throughout Canada. I would like to say a few words, but the most interesting part for us will really be the questions and answers.
Our government believes — and it is a great Canadian tradition to believe it — that our linguistic duality is a source of immeasurable economic and social benefit for all Canadians. First of all, I would like to solemnly affirm that we are committed to applying our reforms and programs to strengthen both of our official languages in terms of quality, presence, skills and proficiency by means of our immigration system. If you look at all the reforms put in place in the past eight years by our government, namely by Minister Kenney and our two colleagues who preceded him, and since my arrival in this portfolio, you will find that language plays a very important, even central, role in these reforms.
There is no doubt that immigration helps us ensure that the bilingual personality of our country is preserved and represented faithfully all across the country.
Yes, we want to strengthen and preserve Canada's bilingual personality, but we also want to expand it into areas that so far have not benefited from linguistic duality. One of the most striking examples in recent immigration history is Yukon, where 30 per cent of the population is now francophone, thanks not only to migration within Canada and the mobility of the Canadian workforce but also to our immigration programs. This is a fairly recent phenomenon. There has always been a francophone presence in Yukon, but never to this extent.
I want to reiterate the phrase "all across the country," including Yukon, because there is no place in Canada outside Quebec that is not affected by or that does not have a francophone presence. It is a national reality in all provinces and territories. For these and other reasons, I was proud to take part, late last year, in the celebrations surrounding the first-ever National Francophone Immigration Week.
As you may recall, this was an initiative of the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada and the Francophone Immigration Networks, with more than 100 community-led activities organized from coast to coast. Of course, we intend to continue this fine tradition.
[English]
Last November, this event unfolded with Marie-France Kenny, President of the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada. National Francophone Immigration Week was an opportunity for francophones across the country to come together and celebrate their unique culture — a culture that flourishes and continues to define our national identify. It was also an opportunity to officially recognize, and I think this is well understood in all parts of the country, the important contribution of immigration and newcomers to our linguistic duality.
We have the demographic situation in all parts of the country. We have the economic needs, the skills deficit, the sector-by-sector and region-by-region pressures on our labour market everywhere in the country; and we have them in English and we have them in French. Let's keep in mind that right now just over 950,000 francophones live outside Quebec.
[Translation]
Through francophone immigration, we hope to increase this number and help preserve the ongoing vitality of our francophone communities outside Quebec. As members of this committee are aware, our government last year unveiled the new Roadmap for Official Languages, together with Canadian Heritage, our main partner in this file. This important strategy is the result of extensive consultations conducted by my colleague, the current Minister of Industry, when he was Minister of Canadian Heritage. Our Department was instrumental in developing the plan.
The roadmap identifies three pillars to ensure the future vitality of Canada's official languages. It should come as no surprise that immigration is one of these pillars.
[English]
As you all know, immigration has always been central to the history of Canada, from the days of New France, and even in the history of our First Nations who have their own stories of migration to this continent and within this continent. It continues to play a decisive role in fostering the development of official language minority communities.
Under the roadmap for Canada's Official Languages, the government will be investing almost $150 million in official language initiatives related to immigration over the next five years, and an important focus of our efforts in this area is in promoting the benefits of fluency in Canada's official languages and investing in language training for newcomers who are settling in official language minority communities.
[Translation]
Let's be clear on this: we want newcomers to speak one of our languages fluently, but we would prefer that they be fluent in both languages. There is still work to be done in this regard, but, increasingly, newcomers are being given opportunities to strengthen and develop their skills in the second language, even if they are proficient in the first. The stark reality is that newcomers with limited language abilities are more likely to earn less, be unemployed or live in poverty. All the studies done on this issue lead to similar findings. The lack of skills in either official language may be the greatest hurdle they face in furthering their education or obtaining employment.
That is why most of the funds under roadmap 2013-18 — or $120 million — will be invested to help economic class newcomers develop the language skills they need to integrate into Canada. Beyond that, CIC is also focusing on improving our efforts to recruit French-speaking immigrants into minority communities outside Quebec. As you and your colleagues may know, in 2006, CIC — in collaboration with representatives from francophone minority communities — established a target to increase the percentage of French-speaking immigrants to those communities to 4.4 per cent of the total number of immigrants settling in Canada outside of Quebec. As part of our five-year roadmap, our goal was to reach an interim target of 1.8 per cent of the total number of permanent residents outside Quebec by 2013, and we managed to achieve this target. In 2012 — the last year for which we have complete data — we admitted 3,685 French-speaking permanent residents outside Quebec, which is a 4-per-cent increase over 2011. In fact, we have seen a consistent annual increase in the number of francophone minority immigrants since 2006. We are making good progress, but I know we can do better with the help of our partners and employers. That's why we will continue to promote initiatives to strengthen Canada's francophonie.
[English]
Looking now at recent changes to the immigration system, and consistent with our focus on economic immigration that meets Canada's labour market needs, we have set a revised recruitment target of 4 per cent out of the total number of economic immigrants settling outside Quebec to be reached by 2018.
[Translation]
We aim to achieve this target with the help of our federal partners, other levels of government and various stakeholders. We are committed to working with our international partners to achieve this goal, especially by strengthening our ties with France, where several young francophones have shown a desire to explore and experience Canada. Some may well become permanent residents, thereby improving our economic immigration and strengthening our linguistic duality.
I should also mention that the growth of immigration from African countries, the Maghreb countries and even the Middle East tends to contribute to the results, bringing us closer to our target for francophone immigration.
[English]
Year after year, Destination Canada has been a phenomenal success with employers and skilled workers abroad. Attendance in Paris and Brussels remained high in 2013, with more than 1,000 job posts by more than 100 employers. Of more than 19,000 interested candidates, more than 3,700 had skills employers sought and were selected to participate.
[Translation]
Through these job fairs, we help connect French-speaking or bilingual skilled workers with employers across Canada. Not only will this help ensure that our immigration system is supporting Canada's economic growth, it will also help sustain and strengthen minority francophone communities all across the country.
We also welcome the efforts of international partners such as the French publication L'Express. This news magazine devoted its entire July-August 2013 edition of L'Express Réussir to Canada, for those who were considering coming to our country. It profiled our national character, explained what readers need to know before coming here, and highlighted opportunities for francophones both in Quebec and across Canada.
It is worth noting how effective advertising can be as a means of influence abroad; it can have a powerful impact on the decisions of young people all over the world, swaying them to come to Canada. This has always been part of our immigration programs, and in 2014, in an age when the media affects all aspects of people's lives, advertising continues to play a significant role.
[English]
It's worth noting that young Belgian, French and Swiss citizens can apply to travel and work in Canada under the International Experience Canada, or IEC, Youth Mobility Initiative. Canada's IEC agreement with France is in fact the largest of the 32 youth mobility agreements we have. A total of almost 14,000 visas were available this year for French citizens hoping to come to Canada under the working holiday, young professionals and international co-op streams of the IEC.
I should mention anecdotally that the last time we opened a large number of these spaces for applications, they were filled in a matter of 20 minutes. The popularity of this program in France, as in other countries, is enormous because of the quality of the experience they have. International students from across the Francophonie can also apply to study at Canadian post-secondary institutions. They can work on or off campus during the school year and obtain a permit to work in Canada after graduation.
[Translation]
Those who gain at least one year of skilled work experience have the opportunity to apply to stay in Canada permanently under the Canadian Experience Class.
Participants in this French program, for example, are increasingly more likely to become immigrants in Canada. With tens of thousands of international students enrolled in post-secondary institutions across Canada, the Canadian Experience Class is another great pathway for francophone minority communities to attract newcomers.
In addition, as indicated in the recent Speech from the Throne, the government will introduce a brand-new recruitment model that will select immigrants based on the skills and attributes that Canadian employers and our labour market need — and that are linked to immigrants' economic success once in Canada. This new system will be known as Express Entry. The need to build on our two official languages, but more particularly on the growth of French outside Canada in our immigration streams, will play a key role in the implementation of the new system.
The new recruitment model will be more responsive to changing labour market needs. And it is our hope that this flexible system will also benefit our francophone minority communities. It will help broaden opportunities for employers and communities — as well as community colleges, for example — to attract and recruit skilled French-speaking or bilingual immigrants into francophone minority communities.
[English]
As part of a broader engagement strategy with Canadian employers and other stakeholders, we are working with 13 networks in francophone immigration to prepare the employers active in these communities to get ready for this important change and to be able to make best possible use of any recruitment model.
[Translation]
Madam Chair, the government is committed to sustaining Canada's official language minority communities in every region of our great country.
Under the Canada-Quebec Accord — I had the pleasure of meeting my Quebec counterpart this morning — Quebec has sole responsibility for selecting, receiving and integrating its immigrants, including those destined for anglophone minority communities. As such, the Department of Citizenship and Immigration is limited in the actions it can undertake to directly support these communities in the area of immigration.
At the same time, Part VII of the Official Languages Act and provisions of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act commit us to the development of official language minority communities, whether anglophone or francophone.
[English]
As a result, we have explored in recent years modest and innovative ways to support anglophone communities, such as providing support for research projects to better understand the needs of newcomers to those communities. We will double the investment dedicated to those research projects to a total of $500,000 over the next five years under the roadmap that will take us to 2018.
[Translation]
As the Commissioner of Official Languages noted in his 2012-13 Annual Report, immigration is the way of the future when it comes to ensuring the vitality of French-speaking communities outside of Quebec. Our achievements in this area have been made possible by a number of CIC-led measures and partnerships.
CIC continues to work closely with other government departments, as well as provincial and territorial and community partners, to implement the Immigration to Official Language Minority Communities initiative, with funding reaching nearly $30 million by 2018.
[English]
My department is open to addressing the concerns raised by the commissioner. In fact, we are addressing those concerns and we will continue to support the efforts and objectives of French-speaking communities outside Quebec to attract and integrate newcomers. This will contribute to the vitality and development of these communities. With the launch of our first ever National Francophone Immigration Week, we are recognizing the important contributions of immigration to our country's linguistic duality and vitality of francophone minority communities.
We will continue these celebrations and to attract the most ambitious and talented francophone immigrants to make sure that francophone communities flourish across Canada. Reinforcing these communities is part of our plan for economic growth and long-term prosperity throughout the country.
[Translation]
Madam Chair, I have one last thing to say: we are focusing on the quality of our immigrants' language skills and we have reformed our programs to raise expectations in this regard — not only because we want to strengthen linguistic duality in all provinces and territories, but also because language and the quality of that language are important and matter for everyone. Having the best PhDs in literature, writers and engineers who are fluent in both our languages, English and French, at the highest level, will help us succeed as a country in a fiercely competitive world, which is a reality we all face.
Yes, we want to strengthen and preserve our reality, namely that both languages are present, respected and spoken in all regions of our country, but we also want to focus on the quality of proficiency in our official languages, because they are essential tools both to our development as human beings and to the success of a national economy.
The Chair: Thank you very much, minister. Many of my colleagues would like to ask questions. Given the time constraints, I would ask honourable senators to make their questions as short and to the point as possible.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Welcome, minister. Since we have been examining the issue of immigrant integration, many witnesses have appeared before the committee and told us that they hope significant results will be achieved for their official language minority communities, since potential immigrants will now be awarded more points for their knowledge of Canada's official languages. Do you believe that the additional points awarded to immigrants for their knowledge of Canada's official languages will provide a better basis for selection and help immigrants to integrate more easily?
Mr. Alexander: The answer is yes. We already have data and analyses to prove it. Yes, we require most of our economic immigrants to have a higher level of language proficiency, but other criteria are also considered. We are looking for somewhat younger immigrants, so immigrants are awarded more points if they are at the beginning of their career. We are looking for immigrants who have specific professional experience because Canada has specific needs that are not the same in every field. These three criteria — language skills, age and professional experience — collectively ensure that our most recent immigrants are making a great impression and achieving better economic results than their predecessors. It is as simple as that.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: I will ask my other two questions at the same time. First, in which regions is the need for language training for immigrants the greatest? Second, can immigrants who so desire take both French and English training or do they have to choose one or the other?
Mr. Alexander: There are still situations where immigrants are forced to choose between training in one language or the other, but those situations are becoming increasingly rare. We are trying to get to the point where immigrants can choose either of the two official languages anywhere in the country. We are moving toward that goal. It is difficult to say which regions in particular have greater needs, but there are two situations that are of concern to us. First, some regions welcome many francophone immigrants but their provincial services are inadequate or they do not have enough French schools or there are waiting lists for those schools. That is one situation.
The second situation is when the population is too small to justify the presence of organizations or institutions devoted to helping francophone immigrants. For example, there are some communities in northern Ontario or even in the Yukon where there are services available but there is not a very big population, even though the francophone population in the Yukon is now at 30 per cent. We can justify better services in areas where there are higher concentrations of immigrants. It is as simple as that.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Thank you very much.
The Chair: We will now hear from Senator McIntyre. Honourable senators, could you please limit yourselves to one question? Then, if there is time, we will do a second round of questions.
Senator McIntyre: Thank you for being here with us today, minister. I understand that the federal government, the provincial governments, the municipalities, educational institutions, community organizations and employers all play a role in facilitating the recruitment, reception, retention and integration of immigrants in minority communities. Keeping all that in mind, do you think it is necessary to establish a coordinated national strategy on this issue?
Mr. Alexander: I think that is exactly what we are trying to achieve with the roadmap. Of course, we are committed to strengthening the partnerships needed to implement the roadmap, such as partnerships with community colleges, provincial and territorial governments and community organizations.
However, I think that the roadmap, which is respected by the provinces, and more or less endorsed by Ontario, New Brunswick and the other provinces — even with regard to immigration — is really a good start. As always, in our great country, the different levels of government need to work together.
Yes, we are proud of our settlement network. Funding for this network has tripled since 2006 and funding for Quebec remains very important, even though it is spent at Quebec's discretion. We understand that our immigrants will not be able to settle and integrate into our society without an excellent school system. However, that does not fall within our jurisdiction. We are therefore obligated to partner with all of the provinces to connect our settlement networks to the education system. It is the same thing with the roadmap and francophone immigration.
Senator Charette-Poulin: You are right about northern Ontario. I am one of two senators representing northern Ontario and we sometimes encounter a lot of difficulties because we have many small communities and the distance between them presents an incredible challenge.
I have another question. I am very pleased to see that you are going to give priority to young people and that you are going to invest in youth. When I heard that there are 13,000 visas for France alone, my reaction was that that is not very much.
Why are you putting these sorts of limits on programs that make it easier for young French people to come to Canada? I know that, whenever young people from francophone countries come to northern Ontario, they are always a welcome and enriching addition to the community.
Mr. Alexander: That is why France is by far one of the most important countries participating in this program. We are talking about students here, young travellers who we invite to Canada and to whom we give, for the most part, open work permits. They can go work anywhere and may be competition for our children and family members. What we are doing is very generous and, of course, it is reciprocal. We have the opportunity to send just as many Canadians to France. However, given that economic conditions are less favourable than they once were, Canadians have been less inclined to take advantage of this opportunity in recent years.
Fourteen thousand is therefore a lot. I believe the second country is Ireland with 10,000 visas. All the other countries are far behind that. You should listen to the interesting conversation we are having with the High Commissioner to the United Kingdom, which receives only 5,400 visas.
The number of visas issued is set at these levels for the reasons I mentioned. One of the reasons why we give precedence to France is francophone immigration. The youth involved in this program are not the only French citizens coming to Canada. Others come as part of intra-cooperative transfers. Still others come to Canada to go to school and take advantage of the opportunity to work at the same time.
All that to say that many immigrants are still coming to Canada from France and other francophone countries under all of these strategies. We are going to seek out others, not only in Europe but also in the Caribbean, Africa and Asia. There are francophones living throughout the world and people want to learn to speak French. Some of my best friends, who are originally from Russia, speak impeccable French and some of them live in Quebec while others are part of a francophone community in Toronto. There are all sorts of possibilities now. We are not focusing exclusively on one country, even though France remains very important.
Senator Poirier: Minister, thank you for being here this evening and for your presentation. My question is a follow-up to the question asked by Senator Charette-Poulin. If I understood correctly, the young people who are issued the 14,000 visas available for 2014 under Canada's international exchange program are free to settle anywhere they want in Canada.
Given that Quebec is known for being the most francophone province in Canada and New Brunswick is known for being the only officially bilingual province, do we have any idea where these 14,000 young people intend to settle? Are we making an effort, as a government, to encourage them not to all settle in the same province in order to ensure that they are able to experience the entire country, particularly the small official language minority communities?
Mr. Alexander: That is an excellent question. We want to do more to ensure that these students are appropriately paired with the regions and employers who need them. We encourage them to secure employment before arriving. If our provincial partners can provide us with lists of interested employers, we can make sure that more and more of these young people from France go to the regions where there is a need and where there are jobs available.
We are always working to combat misperceptions in this regard. We all know people abroad who think that everyone in Canada speaks French and nothing but French. Others think that French is spoken only in Quebec and nowhere else. Not everyone in Europe, the United States or Africa knows about the proud history of Acadia and New Brunswick. We have to promote these things. People do not know that there is a large French-speaking community in Vancouver. Once a group or individual finds out about that or about the beauty of New Brunswick's north shore, then people start going there.
I have the numbers that show that France is the most common country of origin for francophone immigrants who settle outside of Quebec. We cannot force permanent residents to go to one region in particular, but we are talking about 619 people in the first 11 months of 2013. It is an important aspect of immigration to our country. We are hoping to have 4, 5 and even 6,000 francophone immigrants settle outside of Quebec as quickly as possible.
Senator Champagne: Minister, at the beginning of your speech, you said that you were an active participant in the Canada-France Association. I would strongly encourage you to attend the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie, which will take place here in Ottawa in early July. More than 60 countries will be there. I think it is important that you be there, and we would be delighted to have you.
Our government is very proud to be able to say that our immigration and heritage ministers are both perfectly bilingual. I think that we ought to be proud and make good use of that fact.
Earlier, you said that when a program is launched and people are able to register, the spots are filled in 20 minutes.
Do these students want to come to Quebec exclusively or are they interested in seeing francophone communities in the rest of the country?
Mr. Alexander: They want to come to Quebec primarily. We cannot hide that fact. One reason this program is so popular is because successive Quebec governments have offered their support and encouraged us to do what we are doing. There are no firm numbers because people can come to Quebec, work in a restaurant for a few months and pick up and leave for Banff or northern Ontario if a friend invites them or encourages them to move.
Senator Charette-Poulin: There are 333 lakes in Sudbury. It's the best-kept secret in the country. Don't tell anyone.
Mr. Alexander: I did an interview with a French-language radio station in Toronto, and the person who interviewed me was from France and came to Canada with this program. It was great.
We can't control every aspect and we can't possibly know everything because we don't follow them that closely. However, we encourage them — through Direction Canada and various publications — to discover Canada in its entirety.
Senator Champagne: I'm not sure who wrote your speech, but it was very interesting. There was one phrase in particular that jumped out at me. You said that there is no place in Canada, outside of Quebec, that is not affected by a francophone presence. Is a francophone presence a bad thing and that's why you use the word "affected," or "à l'abri de" in French? I say that jokingly, but I do think that you may want to change that wording if you wish to give this speech again someday.
Mr. Alexander: Thank you for bringing that to my attention. On the contrary, we were trying to say that there is no place in Canada that is an exception to that rule, or that would want to be an exception to that rule.
Senator Champagne: The French phrase "à l'abri de" surprised me a bit.
Senator Chaput: Mr. Minister, it's a pleasure to have you here with us. You have mentioned in the past and we are aware of the fact that, in the roadmap, a fairly large portion of the funding earmarked for language training and improving language skills comes from your department.
I am from Manitoba, and I would like to know if this funding us available for Manitoban institutions that give training.
Mr. Alexander: Yes. Some funding is already available. Of course, that will continue to evolve. We encourage all of the organization to familiarize themselves with our criteria and our system, and to sign up. We are well aware that we need to work with the school system in order to help people learn French and English. Our budget is more effective when it is invested in partnerships.
Senator Chaput: Does the roadmap include funding to support welcome and settlement initiatives and networks for immigrants? Your department has supported those networks in the past. I believe I read somewhere that there is not as much funding dedicated for those activities now. Is that the case?
Mr. Alexander: I would like to let Ms. Prince-St-Amand take that question, but I will assure you right away that the networks are receiving support. There are 13 of them, 3 of which are in Ontario. They acknowledge the diversity of francophone communities in Ontario. There are networks like that in every province, except Nunavut. There are francophone immigrants in Nunavut, but there are no networks right now.
I visited some of the networks in British Columbia and Manitoba, and I was very impressed with the work they are doing. We will strengthen our partnerships in all respects.
Corinne Prince-St-Amand, Director General, Integration and Foreign Credentials Referral Office, Citizenship and Immigration Canada: In fact, we have doubled the number of networks since 2008. We are investing $2.5 million in these networks each year.
As you said, senator, these networks are very important, especially in provinces like Manitoba, because they bring together the federal government, provincial governments, employers, post-secondary institutions and non-profit organizations.
As the minister mentioned earlier, these partnerships are very important. This is where the provinces and the federal government can encourage employers to hire young francophones so that they settle in Manitoba. That's one way we could increase the number of francophone immigrants. We recognize the value of these networks, and we have a budget of $2.5 million to support them.
Mr. Alexander: The funding often goes through two channels: our national settlement system and the roadmap. Funding can change over time. We tend to focus on organizations that give results and that serve a large population.
[English]
Senator Beyak: Thank you, minister, for a very informative presentation. You mentioned in your remarks your ministry's responsibility to the anglophone minority in Quebec, and you're meeting there today. Could you elaborate and tell me more about your relationship with the anglophone minority there?
Mr. Alexander: I went to McGill University and lived in Montreal for three and half years, so I was close to it in many ways. Today you have two ministers of immigration, whose first language is English, having their entire meeting in French. Things are changing. I think everyone is comfortable with a debate and a set of programs, which is important for both Quebec and Canada, pursued proudly in two different languages.
That said, there are parts of Quebec where the anglophone community is isolated. I met one of the families of the fallen on Friday at the National Day of Honour who were from Gaspé and whose family was one of the last anglophone families in this community. They have special needs and the Government of Quebec understands that and does its best to meet them. The federal government must understand, given our special responsibility for linguistic minorities, and do its best to meet them. It is possible for CIC and other departments to deliver so much more online. If you are in rural Gaspé, maybe that's not where you get most of your information, but it does break the potential for isolation. We are striving at Citizenship and Immigration Canada to make services available in both languages for newcomers in all parts of country, whatever their situation, majority or minority.
I should add that this will be a continuing challenge because immigrants are not going only to our three big cities. The anglophone community in Montreal is solid, connected and still successful in a Quebec that is mostly francophone; but immigrants are going to very small places, including rural areas where they haven't had immigrants for 100 or 200 years. In parts of Quebec, it might be even longer than that, in some cases, because of the vitality of our economy and our demographic challenge, which we share with so many other countries. This challenge will remain, and we will not forget the anglophones in Quebec and in other majority francophone parts of the country.
Senator Beyak: Thank you, minister.
[Translation]
Senator Champagne: Minister, you may want to read our committee's report on anglophones in Quebec. It was the topic of discussion on the radio this morning when I was on my way to Ottawa. We wrote a report specifically about anglophones in Quebec, anglophone minority communities. You may want to read it.
Mr. Alexander: I'll read it. It sounds very interesting.
The Chair: Colleagues, we have time for a quick second round. I'd like to ask you a quick question, minister. In light of the changes to the immigration system, employers will play a very important role, and we've been hearing some of our francophone and Acadian communities say that this will create more work for them. They're concerned that they won't have the means and resources to be able to do the work. What do you think about those concerns? Do you think they're justified? Will additional envelopes be made available?
Mr. Alexander: Their concerns are real, although I think that people are always concerned about change. But the service will be better than the service they have been getting up to now. The time they invest will produce significant results. What are we asking employers to do? We are asking them to exhaust all of their options within the Canadian job market first. They have to look for Canadians first. That's how it works. That's what has made Canada successful from the start.
But if they don't find a Canadian to fill the position, they can use the new Express Entry system to send their labour market opinion to the immigration system and recruit someone from outside Canada or someone who is already here as a temporary foreign worker, and that application will be processed within six months. This is unprecedented for two reasons: employers have never had such direct involvement, and applications for economic immigrants have never been processed so quickly before.
The Chair: Thank you.
Senator Charette-Poulin: Thank you, Madam Chair. Minister, can we count on you and your Canadian Heritage counterpart to take another look at your figures? On page 6, you say, "Currently, only a little more than 950,000 francophones live outside Quebec."
I am very uncomfortable with the methodology used to arrive at that number, which I do not think represents current conditions, given the intermarriage of cultures and the way Statistics Canada asks the questions. Can we count on you and your Canadian Heritage counterpart to ensure that our numbers truly reflect the new reality of the Francophonie across Canada?
Mr. Alexander: Absolutely. I will raise that issue. It is very important to me. I would like to know whether I myself am counted among them.
Senator Charette-Poulin: No, I'm sorry, you aren't. That is an excellent example. Thank you.
The Chair: Do you have time for two more short questions, Mr. Minister?
Mr. Alexander: Of course I do.
Senator Champagne: Earlier, I mentioned a report that we wrote two or three years ago. We will be writing a report about this. Is there anything you would like to see in the suggestions we make to the government and your department? Is there something in particular that you can tell us that, if we suggest it, that would help you get it from higher up? Is there anything in particular? Because the purpose of the reports that the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages writes is not to tell you that you aren't doing this or that; it is to try to suggest things to help you do better. Is there anything that would help you that we can suggest?
Mr. Alexander: Absolutely. If you can paint a picture of how to be successful with francophone immigration outside of Quebec, show us an example of a community that has come together, created the economic conditions and the necessary partnerships, and mobilized its provincial government to attract francophones, we want to help more communities have that same successful experience.
An anecdotal approach is one thing — you probably all know communities like that — but we also need an in-depth, qualitative analysis of what made it a success, what made the francophones who were attracted in the first place stay and experience real economic success as a result. That would help us a lot even though we are trying to do that research ourselves.
Senator Champagne: We have to attract them, but we also have to retain them.
Mr. Alexander: Exactly.
Senator Champagne: Many people have been kind enough to share with us what they want and what they are doing. I am sure we can find a way to help you too. You are already doing very good work. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Senator Chaput: Thank you. Very briefly, I would like to go back to Senator Poulin's question. Minister, for example, in Manitoba, if we count the francophones whose first language is French, they make up half of what would be considered the Francophonie, which comprises Manitobans who can express themselves in French. The situation is the same everywhere. The number should be twice as high.
The other question I wanted to ask you is this: Have you given your department a target for attracting French-speaking immigrants?
Mr. Alexander: Yes, our target is four per cent of our immigration by 2018. I have told Ms. Prince-St-Amand and her colleagues that I would like to hit that target much sooner, but the official target is four per cent in 2018. We have three and a half more years to reach the target.
I can tell you the countries that supply the bulk of our francophone immigration today. The following countries supplied over 100 immigrants in 2013: the Federal Republic of Cameroon, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Ivory Coast, Senegal, Haiti and France.
Senator Champagne: They will all be here in July!
The Chair: Mr. Minister, on behalf of the committee, I would like to thank you very much for participating in the meeting today. We know that you have a very busy schedule. We appreciate your being here, and the comments you have made are extremely important for our study of the impact of recent changes to the immigration system on official language minority communities.
Mr. Minister, we can see that you are committed and enthusiastic and that you have a positive attitude toward immigration and especially toward our two official languages from coast to coast to coast, as you said. Thank you again.
Mr. Alexander: Thank you.
The Chair: Honourable senators, I will suspend for five minutes so we can get ready for the next witness.
(The committee suspended.)
(The committee resumed.)
The Chair: We will continue with our study of the impact of recent changes to the immigration system on official language minority communities. Our witness is Mr. Gilles LeVasseur, Professor, Telfer School of Management, University of Ottawa.
Mr. LeVasseur, thank you for joining us today. You may begin, and the senators will then ask you questions.
Gilles LeVasseur, Professor, Telfer School of Management, University of Ottawa: Ladies and gentlemen, before I begin, I would just like to say that I was born in Toronto. I grew up in Ontario, so I understand what it means to live in a minority situation. I have chaired over 15 francophone associations across Canada, and I was the constitutional expert for the Language Rights Support Program for five years. I am going to talk about what I have learned from my participation in Canadian society.
I am very pleased to present a few points of view about immigration and the development of the French official language community in Canada. I would like to take a moment to express my support for the Supreme Court of Canada's decision in the Reference on the Senate and the role it plays today. The Supreme Court confirmed the independence of senators and the Senate's concern for various groups that, for a number of reasons, have not been able to actively participate in political life in the House of Commons.
The concerns that the Senate expresses about official language communities are essential to Canada's well-being and development. Linguistic duality is an important characteristic of this country and has been shaping our legislative and government policies for over 50 years.
We have to maintain this commitment to Canadian linguistic duality because participation in this duality also involves the integration of immigrants and the development of specific social policies in various areas, including health, the economy, basic rights, education and the creation of a uniquely Canadian identity.
Linguistic duality is a norm that affects us all in one way or another. This norm affects all Canadians because, ultimately, we define ourselves over time as part of a linguistic community, be it francophone or anglophone, in Canada. For newcomers, this recognition is typically confirmed by the third generation of individuals living and working in Canada.
To ensure that linguistic duality remains an ongoing and vibrant reality across Canada, immigration can be a tool that enables us to at least maintain the proportion of individuals who identify over time with one of Canada's two linguistic groups. We have to ask ourselves the following question: How is immigration contributing to the development of the French official language community in Canada while taking into account the effects of exogamy and assimilation to the majority? First, the fertility rate and composition of immigration do not currently enable us to maintain the proportion of francophones across Canada compared to the anglophone community.
Immigration strengthens the French official language community in Canada through the addition of new individuals to various communities. The new population will seek health care services in French as well as French schools. This is beneficial for francophones because it increases the availability of government services in French. The most eloquent example is the management of French-language school boards across Canada.
Second, exogamy is a natural reality where there are few members of the minority language group in many parts of Canada. Increasing the number of French speakers increases the opportunity for socializing and building relationships among French speakers. It also increases the desire to learn French as a second language, thereby increasing the number of francophiles and individuals who can communicate in both of Canada's official languages.
Third, attraction to the anglophone community is heavily influenced by economic and social opportunities, as well as the presence of the United States in our daily lives. When a linguistic group grows through the addition of newcomers, that changes the appeal of that linguistic group to other members of society. From an economic perspective, we are trying to increase our market share, and if we look at the economic weight of French speakers, we can develop business strategies that target francophones, from signage to hiring bilingual individuals.
Last, the economic and social mobility of Canadians, along with social change, have altered the make-up of linguistic groups in Canada. This mobility and change increase the number of interactions among individuals, thus increasing the likelihood of exogamy. Being part of these social changes, mobility in Canada and interactions with French speakers give individuals the opportunity to participate in economic and social life in French across Canada.
It is important to emphasize the role of francophones in the evolution of Canadian society. Quebec may be the fortress of Canada's francophonie, but francophones outside Quebec are the buttresses. We cannot allow the buttresses to crumble because we would create a Canada made of up two language groups attached to a specific territory: a French Quebec and an English rest of Canada. Linguistic duality enables us to avoid that polarization of our country between two separate groups. Such linguistic polarization confirms the often-voiced belief in Quebec that there is no place for a francophone outside of Quebec. To many, this justifies the need for Quebec's secession and sovereignty.
Francophones outside of Quebec are essential to Canada's identity. They represent Canada's bilingual nature from coast to coast and foster mobility among citizens who speak either of Canada's official languages. That brings us to the matter of immigration percentages. The minister talked about the target, which is four per cent in 2018.
The type of francophone immigrant they are looking for is an individual whose mother tongue is French or who has adequate knowledge of the French language. We use the term "adequate" because for many, it is the second or third spoken language. Also, because integration is typically a quick but complex and demanding notion, the individual has to be someone who integrates quickly into Canadian society and the francophone linguistic group.
We have to ensure that the percentage of French-speaking individuals admitted to Canada is twice the local francophone population. The reasons for this are as follows: French-speaking individuals do not necessarily share the desire to identify with the official language minority community. The appeal of the majority group is often related to social and economic opportunities. Immigrants are seeking a better quality of life, and the economic system is usually a newcomer's primary interest. This activity typically takes place in English.
Exogamy is also a reality for newcomers. They can speak French, but they do not necessarily share the identity. Consequently, we have to select newcomers who wish to participate in life in French across Canada.
Fourth, knowledge of French is, for some, valid only for purposes of work and immigration. We have to accept their linguistic and social choices.
In order for immigration to support the French language community in Canada, our approach must involve the following four primary actors:
1. Provincial and federal government agencies, to ensure that programs are coordinated to help newcomers integrate into the francophone minority group. This involves negotiating to develop framework policies for selecting immigrants and evaluating whether quantifiable objectives are met, such as the number of newcomers who are able to speak French, where these immigrants are located in Canada and the demand for services adapted to their specific needs.
2. Host organizations must be equipped to provide direction for newcomers with respect to the francophone reality and to help them as they search for economic and social opportunities. For example, this includes the possibility of using French at work and for government services.
3. Community stakeholders must actively participate in helping newcomers develop ties to the established community. This involves developing social policies and developing ways to help these community stakeholders get involved in the francophone community. These ties may involve sports for young people, and school, which is why school is important in helping newcomers integrate.
4. Lastly, before they are selected, newcomers must be made aware of the possibility of living in a French-language community. They must be exposed to the reality of Canada's linguistic duality and official language minorities, and the benefits of being able to communicate in both of Canada's official languages.
In conclusion, the various steps set out in this document require time and energy. Therefore, from the beginning we need: clear policies on the part of governments; ways to properly select newcomers; and ultimately a desire to protect and promote Canada's linguistic duality.
Thank you for your time and your commitment to Canada.
The Chair: Thank you. We will now start with questions.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: My question will be very simple. It is a huge challenge to integrate and retain francophone immigrants in minority communities. That's what the witnesses before you told us. I think you made a few recommendations about that, but do you have more specific ones?
Immigrants often come to Quebec in the beginning and then move to minority francophone communities outside Quebec. It's very difficult for Quebec to retain francophone immigrants.
Mr. LeVasseur: You make a very good point, Madam Senator. At the end of the text I presented, I spoke about Bill 161, which died on the order paper after the election was called in Ontario. There's no defined framework because it's still all policy. Therefore, I would first suggest a regulatory framework that defines how the communities work.
Second, too often we select francophone immigrants based on some very elitist criteria. I agree that we should welcome immigrants who could take on jobs that can't be filled by Canadians, but often, the immigrants who will make it and want to succeed are the ones who are looking for work, who want to improve their quality of life and who want to give their children what they didn't have. This will very often be dictated by the economic and social environment. Unfortunately we tend to look for immigrants who already have a job. In addition, there's no mentoring to help young people find a niche or find their place.
Third, is that economic and social aspects carry more weight than dedication to the language. Language becomes an accessory. We need to create a system in which someone who wants to move here can have both job opportunities and the language aspect. The opposite tends to happen: we seek out francophones and expect them to identify with the francophone community. However, these francophones will try to find a place where they can speak French.
Here's an example: during the last Grey Cup, two football players were children of Congolese immigrants. They had immigrated to Quebec, but since the father and mother were not able to find jobs, they moved to Alberta, in Western Canada. The children started playing football in the local anglophone community. They became excellent players. One of them will probably play in the American National Football League. In their case, language was not the driving force. The driving force was economic opportunity.
That's what we forget too often. We create selection methods based on an elitist approach, but the people who work are the ones who will create this francophone reality.
Senator Charette-Poulin: Your comments are very relevant, and we also thank you for taking the time to prepare your testimony, which enrich our discussions and reflections.
I noticed that you were in the public gallery during the discussions we had with the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, Mr. Alexander. You heard me when I asked the minister whether he would review the method used to calculate the francophone population in the country, whether we're talking about Quebec or the other provinces.
I noticed that you talked about "French speakers." What does that term mean to you?
Mr. LeVasseur: That's an excellent question. In the text I talk about the notion of French official language community. That refers to what I said to Senator Fortin-Duplessis about the mobility of immigrants who move from Quebec to outside Quebec. When we talk about French speakers, what's important is not necessarily looking for someone whose first language is French, but looking for people who are able to communicate and express themselves in a continuous conversation.
This is important because French speakers can be beneficial to our educational, social and cultural realities. From the beginning, they accept the French language in their communities, they support it and they share the social and cultural reality.
We need to be cautious when talking about what constitutes a French speaker. We need to be able to adequately evaluate this, but we must not create so many guidelines that the individual doesn't fit in within our francophone community.
A large number of students come here to get a diploma, but we are so restrictive about the future of these young people that they must return home and then submit an application to immigrate to Canada. They often do not even come back. We need to create a system that promotes continuity.
Too often, we limit people with our selection method based on purely mechanical, statistical and economic criteria, when often, it's someone's willingness to speak French.
There is one thing we can't forget: a language survives and develops because it is economically viable. As soon as a language is no longer economically viable, people will move to another language.
For example, I sit on United Nations committees. One of these committees is made up of experts in public administration. The committee uses French, English and Spanish. Very few people speak Russian, and I don't mean that to say that it's not a beautiful language. Very few people speak Chinese or Russian, other than Russians and the Chinese. Most people speak English, French and Spanish. Often, when I talk to people who speak another language, I ask them why they use English. They tell me that it's the language of the economy and the language that everyone understands.
The same goes for immigrants who come to Canada. They'll adopt the language that will give them opportunities. If a French speaker already has a prospect in mind, he'll bring his children, who will generate this volume and the need for government services.
Senator McIntyre: Thank you for your very interesting presentation, Mr. LeVasseur.
You spoke about Bill 161 in both your oral and written presentations. Unfortunately, as you pointed out, this bill died on the order paper. We hope that it'll be brought back after the upcoming election.
This is an interesting bill because it aimed to protect the interests of francophones in terms of immigration. I know that you spoke about this bill in an article for Le Droit a few months ago. The bill is interesting because it recognizes a linguistic group with a distinct culture and history in Ontario. Another very interesting thing, if we can make this connection, is that it would provide guidance for the courts in interpreting Franco-Ontarians' language rights, which is important. That's why I hope that this bill will be brought back after the upcoming Ontario election.
That said, I'd like to talk about another bill, Bill C-24, which is at first reading in the House of Commons. This bill would make two amendments. Do you have anything to say about this bill?
Mr. LeVasseur: That's an excellent question. The bill talks about norms and standards. The problem is that, once again, the bill does not address the issue of identity. It creates an approach, a way of being. An anglophone does not necessarily have the same notion of identity. People are capable of integrating into a system. For a francophone, it's not just a matter of speaking the language; it is a matter of aligning oneself with a value, an idea and a way of being.
For example, when I speak English, I can speak to everyone and we identify with values that are much more dominant in Canada, such as the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, just like francophones. The difference is that in a minority situation, we need to look at the second aspect that could be beneficial, which is the notion of our history, our experience, our battles, our reality, our efforts. Being a minority francophone is a battle; it's an effort. To do so, we have to be able to self-identify.
Franco-Ontarians often identify themselves as bilingual, because they are able to speak French and English. They don't need to develop that side of their identity. They can easily go from right to left. If you offer me services in English, it's fine. If you offer services in French, it's fine. However, the bill does not address the issue of identity, which must be addressed with respect to immigration.
We'll always have mechanisms, but we'll never have that extra aspect to identify ourselves and to create our Canadian society.
Senator Chaput: That's very interesting, Mr. LeVasseur. I have a number of questions.
You mentioned that Canada should set a target of doubling the local francophone immigrant population. That's what we should have. At the same time, you mentioned some reasons why the number should be doubled, you spoke about individuals who do not necessarily want to be identified in the community and you spoke about the identity perspective that is not shared.
All of the points you raised are true and real. I recognize that all of these points reflect reality. However, how do we manage to increase the number of francophones outside Quebec in official language minority communities? To increase this number, we bring in immigrants from francophone countries who already speak French as a first, second or third language and who are required to learn English because they are in Manitoba, which is a predominantly English-speaking province. We bring them here, we teach them English, we want them to identify with us, we want them to be part of our community and we want them to be included.
Then, at the same time, they need to work. It's very complicated. Could you give us an example of clear policies that would make everything you just said a reality? I'm talking about clear government policies and methods that enable us to properly select people. Where do we start?
Mr. LeVasseur: That's an excellent question. The question we should be asking is how can we create a standard regarding minimum use of French? Governments have ways of doing so. That's why it's often policy to hire francophones or bilingual individuals to provide government services.
The problem is that there is no such obligation for the private sector because there is no real use for French in many places outside Quebec. It is not an economic necessity. That is where the government needs to establish a requirement so that certain companies would have to hire a minimum number of people who can communicate with the public in French.
The government would have to force the private sector to comply with language requirements, which is something new that no one wants to talk about. One mundane example is when Clarence-Rockland and the township of Russell made their signs bilingual. I helped write the by-laws. What were the consequences? They had to hire people who could speak both official languages so that they could write correctly and serve the public in the minority language.
The government needs to be able to create an obligation or requirement to use both official languages because individuals will not do it on their own. A minimum number of services to clients would have to be offered in both official languages. That would foster an appreciation for learning both official languages at school and for this requirement.
I have been teaching at the University of Ottawa for 28 years. I have taught more classes than anyone else at the university. When I offer a class in English, I always ask the anglophone students why they are attending a class with more than 200 students when they are studying at a bilingual institution and could take the same class in French the next day. People ask what they would get out of it, how it would be beneficial for them. I find that discouraging. I think that the university should have minimum requirements, for both francophones and anglophones, to take at least 10, 15 or 20 per cent of their classes in the other official language, with adjustments for writing and comprehension.
It's the same for businesses. No one has wanted to advance the idea that there should be some requirements in certain areas. If we want to create these kinds of jobs, we need to take that idea even further.
Perhaps every company that has its headquarters in Ottawa and that works with the Government of Canada should have to hire bilingual employees. When the Government of Canada rents out space, the signage is bilingual. If the Government of Canada is the tenant, modify the signage policies.
Why not indicate that there are conditions if companies want to do business with the Government of Canada? That would encourage people to appreciate and learn French and would increase its value. That is a must, and it is up to the Government of Canada to do it.
Immigrants would see that if they want to find work, in various sectors, there is added value to being francophone or to learning French. There is an economic benefit. There is no real place for francophones outside of Quebec in this context, except in certain areas.
There has to be some pressure, and it is up to the Government of Canada to exert that pressure.
Senator Chaput: Has the federal government not taken a first step by deciding that every immigrant who comes to Canada, or who wants to come to Canada, must know at least one of the two official languages?
Mr. LeVasseur: You are absolutely correct, Senator.
Senator Chaput: Since it is moving in the right direction, what is the next step the federal government should take? What would you recommend?
Mr. LeVasseur: I would recommend that every company that does business with the government have a minimum number of employees who speak both official languages, if it's a certain type of business. You may think this is a major shift, but I have to say that 40 years ago in Ottawa, none of the historical photos or signs were in both official languages. Now, there are more and more organizations that, even if they don't rent space from or do business with the Government of Canada, already have signs in both official languages.
It will take time. It starts with national associations, with certain organizations, with the major players. The message will get out eventually. We are learning.
Senator Chaput: How would that affect immigrants?
Mr. LeVasseur: Immigrants will see that bilingualism is a necessary part of accessing the system, integrating into society and having access to important positions. It's not just an academic concept. They'll also see that it's a point of pride. Immigrants come here because they believe in the society; they want to perform and reach the top. Getting to the top is a point of pride, one that requires bilingualism.
Look at the immigrants who have learned both official languages. Look at how proud they are to say they are bilingual, that they have made it to the top.
The Chair: I am hoping to get some clarification. You said that you believe Canada should double the percentage of immigrants based on the local francophone population.
I believe that 4 or 4.4 per cent of the population outside of Quebec is francophone. You feel that our immigration target should be set at 8 per cent?
Mr. LeVasseur: Absolutely, because it will bring more people into Quebec. People often migrate out of Quebec to other parts of Canada, but there's some movement into Quebec as well. It goes both ways.
You may think that 8 per cent is too high. If we aim for 4 per cent, we will be content if we reach 3.1 or 2.8 per cent. If we aim for 8 per cent, we might only reach 5 or 6 per cent, but at least it will be higher than our current percentage. It forces us to give the system the real, direct means it requires.
We need to seize this opportunity. I want to be clear. Quebec society tends to say that there is a crisis concerning the francophone population outside of Quebec. That has been the case since the 1960s and 1970s.
I remember speaking to Claude Morin when I was a young boy. He launched his book about economic clout and French Canadian society. I remember asking him if he was pessimistic. He said, "Perhaps I am pessimistic, but the trend is going to continue."
People in a minority situation seem to turn in on themselves, isolate themselves and cut themselves off from others. An article in La Presse last Saturday talked about francophones in Toronto. It was a wake-up call for a lot of people who are saying that the situation is not as dire as they thought. This is one reality. They are also seeing that there is an opportunity here, one that is a bit different perhaps, but an opportunity all the same.
I recently wrote an article about appointing judges to the Supreme Court. I explained that we must ensure that new judges are able to understand both official languages in order to sit on the Supreme Court.
This is one of the only instances where there is an exception to the Official Languages Act, where there is a clear exception to having to know both official languages in order to proceed with a trial in French or English.
However, you have surely noticed that the majority of bilingual judges are immigrants, and they are proud to be bilingual. When someone argues before the Supreme Court, they like to respond in French. They have developed a sense of pride about being able to speak in two languages. It is about success and pride.
The Chair: Mr. LeVasseur, thank you for such an interesting presentation. Thank you for your recommendations and suggestions.
We would also like to thank you for being so flexible and understanding. We had to change the agenda a number of times to accommodate the minister's schedule. Thank you very much for your understanding, and good luck with your classes and students.
Mr. LeVasseur: Thank you.
The Chair: We'll suspend for a few minutes and then come back for a short time.
(The committee continued in camera.)