Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Aboriginal Peoples

Issue 57 - Minutes of Proceedings - June 11, 2019


OTTAWA, Tuesday, June 11, 2019
(129)

The Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples met this day at 9 a.m., in room C128, Senate of Canada Building, the chair, the Honourable Lillian Eva Dyck, presiding.

Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Christmas, Coyle, Dyck, Eaton, Francis, LaBoucane- Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, McInnis, Ngo, Pate, Patterson, Sinclair, Tannas and Tkachuk (15).

Other senators present: The Honourable Senators Griffin, McPhedran and Miville-Dechêne (3).

In attendance: Maxime Fortin, Procedural Clerk, Senate Committees Directorate; Brittany Collier and Marlisa Tiedemann, Analysts, Parliamentary Information and Research Services, Library of Parliament.

Also present: The official reporters of the Senate.

Pursuant to the order of reference adopted by the Senate on Thursday, May 16, 2019, the committee continued its examination of Bill C-262, An Act to ensure that the laws of Canada are in harmony with the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. (For complete text of the order of reference, see proceedings of the committee, Issue No. 55.)

The Honourable Senator Sinclair moved:

That the committee proceed with clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-262, An Act to ensure that the laws of Canada are in harmony with the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, to be followed by clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-91, An Act respecting Indigenous languages.

After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 5

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair made a statement.

The chair asked whether the title shall stand postponed.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 5

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether the preamble shall stand postponed.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 5

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether clause 1, which contains the short title, shall stand postponed.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 5

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The Honourable Senator Tkachuk moved that the committee do now adjourn.

The question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 5

NAYS

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether clause 2 shall carry.

The Honourable Senator Patterson moved that Bill C-262 be amended in clause 2, on page 2:

(a) by replacing line 22 with the following:

"construed so as to

(a) expand, diminish or extinguish existing aborig-''; and

(b) by replacing line 25 with the following:

"stitution Act, 1982; or

(b) create any new rights in relation to or in addition to the rights that are recognized and affirmed in section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982.''.

After debate, the question was put on the motion in amendment.

After debate, the Honorable Senator Tkachuk raised a point of order.

After debate, the chair ruled that the motion to put the question was in order.

Whereupon the chair's ruling was appealed.

After debate, the question being put on whether the chair's ruling shall be sustained, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether the motion in amendment shall carry.

After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

After debate, the chair asked whether clause 2 shall carry.

The Honourable Senator Patterson moved that Bill C-262 be amended in clause 2, on page 2, by adding the following after line 25:

"(1.1) For greater certainty, nothing in the Schedule to this Act, and in particular nothing in article 32 of the Annex to the Schedule, is to be construed so as to expand the interpretation and application of section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982.''.

After debate, the Honourable Senator Christmas moved that the committee limit debate to five minutes per amendment.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether the motion in amendment shall carry.

The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether clause 2 shall carry.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether clause 3 shall carry.

The Honourable Senator Patterson moved that Bill C-262 be amended in clause 3, on page 3, by replacing lines 6 and 7 with the following:

"tional human rights instrument.''.

After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether clause 3 shall carry.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether clause 4 shall carry.

The Honourable Senator Patterson moved that Bill C-262 be amended in clause 4, on page 3, by replacing lines 9 and 10 with the following:

"eration with indigenous peoples in Canada and the governments of the provinces, must take all reasonable measures to ensure that the laws of Canada are''.

After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The Honourable Senator Tannas moved that the committee do now adjourn.

The question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

NAYS

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

After debate, the chair asked whether clause 4 shall carry.

After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether clause 5 shall carry.

The Honourable Senator Patterson moved that Bill C-262 be amended in clause 5, on page 3 by replacing lines 13 to 15 with the following:

"5 The Government of Canada may, in consultation and cooperation with indigenous peoples and the governments of the provinces, develop and implement a national action plan that sets out reasonable steps to achieve the objectives of''.

After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether clause 5 shall carry.

After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether clause 6 shall carry.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The Honourable Senator Tkachuk moved that the committee extend the time that a senator has to speak from five minutes to 20 minutes per motion.

The question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether the schedule shall carry.

The Honourable Senator Patterson moved that Bill C-262 be amended on page 3, by adding the following after line 24:

"7 (1) This Act comes into force on a day to be fixed by order of the Governor in Council on recommendation of the Chief Justice of Canada in accordance with subsections (2) and (3).

(2) The Governor in Council, no later than five days after the day on which this Act receives royal assent, must refer to the Supreme Court, under section 53 of the Supreme Court Act, for its hearing and consideration, the question of whether the provisions of this Act, if they all were to come into force, would provide the Aboriginal peoples of Canada with the ability to permit or prohibit the development, utilization or exploitation of mineral, water or other resources.

(3) The Chief Justice may make no recommendation to the Governor in Council under subsection (1) unless he or she considers that the opinion of the Supreme Court of Canada on the question referred to that Court in accordance with subsection (2) confirms that the provisions of this Act, if they all were to come into force, would not provide the Aboriginal peoples of Canada with the ability to permit or prohibit the development, utilization or exploitation of mineral, water or other resources.''.

After debate, the chair asked whether the motion in amendment shall carry.

After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The Honourable Senator Tkachuk raised a point of order concerning government business being a priority over other business.

The chair ruled that because the committee is the master of its own proceedings and that other precedents exist where committees considered other business before government business, the committee could proceed with its consideration of Bill C-262.

Whereupon the chair's ruling was appealed.

After debate, the question being put on whether the chair's ruling shall be sustained, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The Honourable Senator Tannas moved an amendment.

A question was raised concerning the admissibility of an amendment in one language only.

The chair ruled that the amendment is not admissible unless it is available in both official languages.

Whereupon the chair's ruling was appealed.

The question being put on whether the chair's ruling shall be sustained, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether the schedule shall carry.

The Honourable Senator Tannas moved:

That Bill C-262 be amended on page 3 by adding the following as new clause 7:

"Free, prior and informed consent.

Free, prior and informed consent as referenced in the schedule of this bill shall not be interpreted as an ultimate veto but simply as one aspect of consultation.''

After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment that new clause 7 carry, it was negatived on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether the schedule shall carry.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether clause 1, which contains the short title, shall carry.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether preamble shall carry.

The Honourable Senator Patterson moved that Bill C-262 be amended in the preamble, on page 1:

(a) by replacing line 1 with the following:

"Whereas the Parliament of Canada recognizes''; and

(b) by replacing lines 3 and 4 with the following:

"tion on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples;''.

After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The Honourable Senator Tannas moved that the committee suspend clause by clause consideration of Bill C-262 and begin clause by clause consideration on Bill C-91, An Act respecting Indigenous languages.

The question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether the preamble shall carry.

The Honourable Senator Patterson moved that Bill C-262 be amended in the preamble, on page 2, by adding the following after line 15:

"Whereas this Act does not affect the interpretation or application of section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982;

And whereas section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982 may only be amended with the authorization, by resolution, of the Senate, the House of Commons and the legislative assemblies of at least two-thirds of the provinces that have, according to the latest general census, at least 50 per cent of the population of all the provinces;''.

After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether the preamble shall carry.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether title shall carry.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether Bill C-262 shall carry.

After debate, the question being on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether the committee wishes to append observations to the committee's report on the bill.

The question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Tannas, Tkachuk — 5

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Patterson, Sinclair — 10

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

The chair asked whether the chair should report the bill to the Senate.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Dyck, Christmas, Coyle, Francis, LaBoucane-Benson, Lovelace Nicholas, McCallum, Pate, Sinclair — 9

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Eaton, McInnis, Ngo, Patterson, Tannas, Tkachuk — 6

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

At 11:07 a.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the chair.

ATTEST:

Mireille K. Aubé
Clerk of the Committee