Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue No. 13 - Evidence - Meeting of June 5, 2017
OTTAWA, Monday, June 5, 2017
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day at 5 p.m., in public and in camera, to continue its examination of Canadians' views about modernizing the Official Languages Act and to study a draft report.
Senator Claudette Tardif (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Good evening. My name is Claudette Tardif, and I'm the chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages. I'm pleased to have you here this evening. Before I give the floor to the witnesses, I would like the committee members to introduce themselves, starting on my left. I also want to welcome our deputy chair, Senator Rose-May Poirier, back to the committee.
Senator Poirier: Thank you, Madam Chair. My name is Rose-May Poirier, and I'm a senator from New Brunswick.
Senator Maltais: Ghislain Maltais, senator from Quebec.
Senator Mégie: Marie-Françoise Mégie, from Quebec.
Senator Fraser: Joan Fraser, from Quebec.
Senator Moncion: Lucie Moncion, from Ontario.
Senator Gagné: Raymonde Gagné, from Manitoba.
Senator Bovey: Patricia Bovey, from Manitoba.
Senator McIntyre: Paul McIntyre, senator from New Brunswick.
The Chair: The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages is continuing its special study on Canadians' views about modernizing the Official Languages Act. The Senate committee will start by examining the views of young Canadians. We're pleased to have two groups of young Canadians here this evening. We're joined by ambassadors Julia Albert and Nicolette Belliveau from French for the Future. I believe Ms. Belliveau is from New Brunswick, and Ms. Albert is from White Rock, British Columbia.
[English]
Also, from Experiences Canada, we have Deborah Morrison, President and Chief Executive Officer. Welcome.
[Translation]
She's joined by Courtney Peters and Khaleela Skinner, who are program participants.
Ms. Morrison, I believe you wanted to give a presentation before leaving the floor to the young people?
Deborah Morrison, President and Chief Executive Officer, Experiences Canada: Certainly. My role today is simply to introduce our young participants. We offer two programs, including an exchange program. Experiences Canada is involved in promoting exchanges to explore Canada's two official languages, along with culture and diversity. Courtney participated in our exchange program, and Khaleela participated in our program as part of the 150th anniversary. The goal of this special program is to explore the issues that interest young Canadians today.
The Chair: We'll start with the speakers from French for the Future. We have limited time this evening, because the Senate is sitting later today and several meetings are being held before the start of the sitting. I'll ask you to make your presentations as brief as you can, and I would like the senators to keep their questions short so that we can ask as many as possible. We'll start with Julia.
Julia Albert, Ambassador 2016, French for the Future: Good evening, senators.
[English]
My name is Julia Albert and I am a Grade 11 early French immersion student from White Rock, British Columbia. My parents, neither French speakers, enrolled me in this program of choice in kindergarten, and I have developed a love for the language over the past 12 years.
In those days, there was such a demand for French immersion that parents had to camp out at the school the night before in order to ensure registration. In my town, there are only two early immersion schools, with more than 200 students currently wait-listed for next fall. Placement is now done on a lottery system. In many ways, being in French immersion is like winning the lottery.
[Translation]
I really wanted to explain how a number of doors opened to me as a result of my second language. These include the speech contest, which helped me communicate with confidence. I was also able to develop my journalism skills by taking part in the CBC/Radio-Canada Jeun'Info experience. This helped me become a leader and gave me the chance to share my opinions in both languages.
Being a French for the Future ambassador was an unforgettable experience. I spent a week in Toronto with friends from across Canada. I didn't know that some of my best friends lived in Moncton, London, Ontario and Whitehorse.
[English]
In an effort to share all of these incredible opportunities with my peers at school, I developed our school's French club. What we call the "Francofun'' club is a place where kids can come and enjoy speaking the language and listening to French music and eating French food.
[Translation]
That said, there's still room for improvement. For example, I'm in Grade 11, and I have only one course in French this year. There aren't enough courses offered in French in Grade 11 and Grade 12. This area can be improved. Also, regarding the DELF exam, which enables us to be recognized as bilingual at the international level, only 30 students are selected each semester to take it. The other students must pay to take it. These types of barriers, along with the indifference encountered in British Columbia, are discouraging factors. In short, I can assure you that, as a result of my experiences, I've really won the lottery. Thank you.
Nicolette Belliveau, Ambassador 2012, French for the Future: Good evening, Madam Chair and committee members. First, thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak today about official languages. My name is Nicolette Belliveau, and I'm from Moncton, New Brunswick.
I'm here today to represent French for the Future. We're a non-profit organization whose mission is to promote official bilingualism in Canada and the benefits of speaking and communicating in French for young Canadians. In 2012, I had the privilege of being an ambassador for French for the Future. Last summer, I was a facilitator, during the same forum. This year, I have the honour of being the coordinator of French for the Future's National Ambassador Youth Forum, which will take place in Charlottetown in August.
[English]
I am from an exogamous family with one anglophone and one francophone parent. Growing up, English was my first and only language. Essentially all of my knowledge of French took place in school in the early French immersion program in New Brunswick. I was very lucky to have been born and raised in New Brunswick, Canada's only officially bilingual province. It gave me an exposure to both languages, English and French, in a linguistic sense but also in a cultural sense, as well as being of Acadian descent. But also, being anglophone gives me a unique opportunity to live and experience both languages and cultures in my day-to-day life.
[Translation]
As a result, I identify as bilingual, and not as a francophile or an anglophone. I strongly believe in bilingualism in Canada. This country was designed to preserve the two founding languages. The two languages haven't always been respected. However, we now have the opportunity, under the Official Languages Act, to ensure respect while protecting and promoting the two languages.
[English]
Learning a second language for me has opened many doors that otherwise would never have been available to me if I were unilingual. There are obvious economic advantages to learning a second language, not only in my home province of New Brunswick but also in the National Capital Region to gain employment. However, for me personally, the societal and cultural advantages are the most important with my second language. Through French, I have had the privilege to meet francophones and Francophile Canadians from all over this country and establish real human connections with them.
[Translation]
However, culturally, learning French as a second language has been the greatest gift of my life. It has opened my eyes to a completely new world of history, literature, music, and even food.
In the mosaic of Canadian multiculturalism, learning the two official languages represents a new challenge. However, nothing prevents us from being open to the other cultures in Canada and from living with our two official languages. I'm thinking in particular of European or African countries, where citizens speak two, three and sometimes even four languages. During my experience, I met a number of people who spoke up to five languages. I dream that Canada will one day become a country where citizens speak two, three or four languages fluently; believe in official bilingualism; and keep their culture of origin, for example, in the case of newcomers.
The co-existence of Canadian multiculturalism and the two official languages makes Canada unique in the world. Therefore, bilingualism should be as well defended as multiculturalism.
Thank you. I'll be pleased to answer your questions.
The Chair: Thank you, Nicolette. We'll now hear from the Experiences Canada participants. Who wants to start?
[English]
Courtney Peters, Program Participant, Experiences Canada: I am honoured to be here.
[Translation]
My name is Courtney Peters. I'm 16 years old, and I live in Roblin, Manitoba. I'm in Grade 11, and I've been speaking French since Grade 4. In early 2017, I participated in an Experiences Canada exchange. I spent a week in Sainte-Foy, Quebec, with a group from my school. There were 22 people in the group.
In April, our partners came to Manitoba to spend a week with us. When I went to Quebec, I was exposed to French culture, and especially to the language. I lived with a family that spoke only French. It wasn't easy, but I learned a great deal from the experience. I recommend the experience to everyone studying French as a second language.
I met new friends that I'll keep forever. I also visited a beautiful part of my country. It was probably one of the best times of my life.
[English]
If I learned anything about speaking French, it is that there is only one way to get your French to the next level: to use it. Having the experience to travel to the French-speaking part of Canada was monumental. I can honestly say that travelling to Quebec and being forced to use what I already knew in this language was one of the hardest experiences of my life, but also one of the most rewarding. Being able to spend a week with someone you can only communicate with by using a language that is strange to you is challenging. A dream in my life is to become bilingual. As a Canadian I would love to be able to communicate with more people and I love the job opportunities that it opens.
Having programs youth can engage in is incredible. The Canadian government should open up even more doors and provide more opportunities for youth and individuals to really improve their French in a practical way. I am nowhere near bilingual now, but by participating in this exchange I have become more confident. I am thankful that I received this opportunity, and I know that I will always look back on this time as playing a pivotal part in increasing my French- speaking ability. Thank you.
Khaleela Skinner, Program Participant, Experiences Canada: Thank you everyone for having me here. I started French immersion in kindergarten, and it has been contributing to my development all throughout my education. Becoming bilingual and fully fluent in French is one of my true goals in life. In my experience, it has allowed me to connect with so many more individuals in my community and across Canada. In my school, I am a member of the French Immersion Leadership Club, the goal of which is to promote French language and culture and help out in the school community. My dream job is actually to become a teacher. In an ideal world, I would hope to teach French.
The value of French programs extends far beyond the language itself. Bilingualism creates so many opportunities for people like me all throughout the country. It is a challenge to learn a new language and it is a lot of work, but for me it has proved to be one of the best things I could ever do.
A few years ago, I travelled here to Ottawa and participated in a youth forum called Encounters with Canada. I used my skills to get to know kids from all across Canada, including some that spoke only French. These are friendships I have maintained to this day, and I am glad I approached these people and I said, "Bonjour.'' I travelled to France last year and had an incredible time experiencing French culture and learning from the locals by talking to them.
This past April, I participated in Experiences Canada 150&Me regional form after submitting my application project in French. I had one of the best weeks of my life making even more new friends and learning to appreciate all the people and opportunities that Canada has to offer.
Not only does being bilingual help me create relationships as an individual, it also creates connections on a global scale.
[Translation]
Canada exists today because we recognize the value of our bilingual and multicultural heritage. We're also trying to develop and strengthen our ties with other nations. Organizations such as the UN and the Francophonie help create a second stable and borderless world.
Our ability to communicate in both languages gives us an advantage on the world stage. Not only are we creating a unique Canadian identity, but we're carrying this identity abroad. We're highlighting our Canadian values of peace, justice and equality. After all, being Canadian means being inclusive and welcoming.
[English]
Programs that promote French education are essential to the continuation of bilingualism in Canada. As a student in the Surrey school district of B.C., we are facing a lot of difficulties in maintaining the French immersion programs. Things that could help would be increased funding from the government to help run the programs as well as bursaries and scholarships to help train more teachers to make a stronger program.
[Translation]
French programs help young Canadians develop as citizens of the world. We must continue to support these programs to protect our heritage and Canadian identity. Thank you.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you so much. All I can say is that it is so heartwarming to listen to all of you. I am sure that your parents and teachers must be very proud of you, as are we.
[Translation]
We'll start with the questions. I'm asking the senators to ask only one question in the first round so that all senators can ask questions. We'll start with Senator Poirier, and then continue with Senator Mégie.
[English]
Senator Poirier: I had two questions, but everyone has already answered my first one. My first question had to do with how important it is to you for Canadians' identity to be bilingual. I think you explained it all in your opening remarks.
[Translation]
My second question is for everyone. Should additional measures be taken to promote anglophone and francophone cultures, while taking regional differences into account?
Ms. Belliveau: In New Brunswick, where one third of the population is francophone, there's still a significant lack of awareness of the province's francophone minority. Whether it's through a school program or education, this method of raising awareness would be very useful. I don't know how we could do it, but we must increase public awareness of the francophone minority outside Quebec and the anglophone minority in Quebec, which also shouldn't be forgotten.
This method of raising awareness would be very important. Each francophone or anglophone minority community is different. New Brunswick has Acadians. Nova Scotia also has Acadians, but they don't have the same traditions as the Acadians from New Brunswick. Quebecers, Franco-Ontarians and anglophones from Quebec aren't exactly the same. We shouldn't forget the difference, and we must increase public awareness of these communities.
Senator Poirier: We also shouldn't forget the Brayons!
Ms. Belliveau: Exactly. We shouldn't forget the Brayons.
Ms. Albert: In British Columbia, I find that francophone culture is less recognized. The francophone population isn't very well known, and the culture isn't taught as much as it should be. I think there's more recognition of the Acadian culture. It should be taught more in schools. The focus should be on the joy of learning about the culture rather than on academic material.
Senator Mégie: We're pleased to hear your reasons for becoming bilingual. However, with the wave of globalization, everything is in English. Young people at school must publish in English, and music is in English. You said that being bilingual is an asset. However, if you could give your colleagues two concrete examples to convince them to follow in your footsteps, what would they be? What are two pieces of advice? You may have several, but give two pieces of advice that would win over a person your age.
[English]
Ms. Skinner: Can I respond in English? For me, something that I really love to do is travel. I think that, if you know any other language, but specifically French because a lot of countries do speak French, learning another language would be perfect if you dream of travelling, and learning one more language makes it easier for you to learn even more. Now that I know French, I can learn Spanish. I can learn Italian. It's really beneficial for me because one of my dreams is to travel the world, and I have to communicate with the people that I am staying with and the people that I meet on the street. So, for me, that's one of the reasons that I really love learning French.
[Translation]
Senator Mégie: What would be your second argument to convince them? I'm asking the question to challenge your mind.
Ms. Albert: They must really find personal motivation. We don't join this type of program simply because our parents registered us for it. It's easy to speak English in French courses. If we have the motivation . . . I'm passionate about the environment and social justice. Since I speak a second language, I can share my message with more people. I can reach more people. I find motivation by establishing contacts with people around the world. I like learning about their history.
Senator Maltais: What a breath of fresh air! I admire your energy. As a Canadian, I'm proud of your work this evening. I like Julia's expression, "connect''. We need to stop using the word "integration''. We connect together.
I live in a city in Quebec where less than two per cent of residents are anglophones. They're still anglophones, but they've stayed connected with the francophones. You spoke of Canada's future and of being able to connect with other languages and cultures while preserving our own cultures. We're aware of the issues in British Columbia. We've spent a considerable amount of energy on the francophonie this year, and we hope our efforts will be successful.
I have a question for the witnesses from Western Canada. How do you feel when you arrive in a completely francophone environment?
Ms. Skinner: It's different.
[English]
Ms. Peters: When I was in Quebec, for example, with the environment being totally French, I was so nervous because I did not take part in immersion or anything specific like that. I just took minimal French courses because I am from a rural school and we don't provide that. We just provide the half an hour or hour a day that you choose in your course outline in high school and just half an hour or whatever in elementary school. But, when I went to Quebec, it was an explosion of language that I didn't understand because I wasn't exposed to that, but it gave me motivation to learn what they were saying. I wanted to know.
With that, the week I was in Quebec definitely improved my French probably the most in my life because you are hearing it everywhere, with the people you are staying with and the partners that you're with and everyone that you are with. Having that, yes, gave me motivation to learn more and gave me a higher passion. It really just fanned that flame to learn and to know what they're saying.
[Translation]
Senator McIntyre: Thank you for being with us this evening, ladies. Your presentation was very interesting. Your attachment to the two official languages is obvious. Is your attachment to the two official languages more francophone, anglophone or bilingual?
Ms. Belliveau: I think I touched on that in my presentation. My attachment is bilingual, since my first language is English and my heritage is Acadian. My father is a francophone, while my mother is an anglophone whose parents were both francophones. I learned English first. I feel like an anglophone, for instance, when I want to get information about a government service. In that situation, I would probably choose the English form, because I am more comfortable in English. As to my everyday identity, I do not make a distinction between francophone and anglophone. I consider myself bilingual. My life is 50 per cent in English and 50 per cent in French.
Senator McIntyre: How do you see the future of the two official languages in relation to other languages?
Ms. Albert: In British Columbia, French is not considered a language of work. There is a strong Asian and Indian influence in trade. There seems to be a mentality that it might be more effective and helpful to learn those languages. I want my children to have the opportunity to be bilingual. I feel very Canadian when I can speak French and English. My dream is to pursue this change in perspective.
[English]
The Chair: Does anyone have anything to add on either of Senator McIntyre's questions on how you define yourself and how you see the future before we go on to the next question? Courtney?
Ms. Peters: My dream is to become bilingual because our country does have two official languages. Even though French may not be the majority in most provinces, I think it is important because it's not the majority, but it's a minority. We have to respect that. I think that, by giving out opportunities to youth to experience that and not totally abolishing it or even changing it is a really good idea.I think we should go ahead with keeping both of them, and keeping services in both languages.
[Translation]
Ms. Albert: Khaleela noted that she wants to be a teacher, and we can see she is passionate about it. It is truly teachers who pass on a love for the language. In British Columbia, at Simon Fraser University, a program was developed to train French immersion teachers. It includes a year of travel and exchanges. This is the kind of program we need right across Canada.
[English]
Senator Bovey: I thank you all. I admire what you've done, how you've done it and the energy and spirit with which you've done it. I want to congratulate you on the fact that it's not just a language in a classroom; it is a culture you're embracing and different ways of life.
As one who lived in British Columbia for many years, and still in the West, learning French in B.C. is not an easy thing. You talked about winning the lottery, Julia, by getting into French immersion. I well know that.
I want you to fast forward. You are the teachers now, and you have students. How will you make sure those doors to the richness of the francophone culture are opened in those parts of the country where there's very little French spoken and, as you said, it's not the language of business?
Ms. Peters: Because it's not a majority of French speaking, since I am from a rural school, growing up, we had teachers who knew no French but had to teach a French class. What is the benefit in that? Doing that, you would learn vocabulary, the stuff that's easy to teach. But growing up, going into high school, we had teachers that were bilingual. You would learn the conversational content. You would learn how to hold a conversation with someone and how to walk down a street and not feel totally clueless with everyone speaking French around you.
If we want to fan that flame, bring the passion to our youth, we need to provide them with opportunities. In my school, my French class has nine people in it, and it is Grade 11 and Grade 12. There are so few because, as children, we never learned anything that would make us feel successful. We didn't learn how to hold a conversation with someone. You go into high school thinking, "Oh, I know how to say 'table' in French, but I can't hold a conversation with someone.''
Providing opportunities to learn practical French rather than just the little things that won't help you would be a great benefit.
Ms. Skinner: I think Courtney touched on it, but learning practical French and experiencing more French culture in class at school, because that's where you pick this stuff up.When I started learning French, and even to this day, we spent French class conjugating verbs. It's useful, to some extent, but doing that all year every day is not something I want to do. I want to listen to French music and watch movies in French. I think exposing more students to relevant things will get us interested will spark more of a flame. It will get more people interested.
Senator Bovey: Do you think those practical opportunities should be enshrined in a review of the Official Languages Act?
Ms. Skinner: That would be great. We'd love to have more opportunities. French immersion brought me here, and I'm pretty happy about that.
Ms. Albert: Especially with the cultural aspect. We have certain days at our school where the maple man will come in and make maple syrup. Everyone is so happy; it's the highlight of the year. Or the crepe truck will come in. It's those moments that everyone feels so excited to be in the French immersion program. Also, being an ambassador for Français de l'avenir, our forums, those are the days when people are excited and feel proud to be part of the immersion program. There needs to be more days like those where you're very excited to be in the immersion program. With the cultural aspect, it's definitely something you pick up travelling, but it could also be influenced more in class, I feel.
The Chair: Maybe your teachers will be listening to the program. If not, you can refer it to them so they can get some suggestions.
[Translation]
Senator Gagné: I would also like to say that I admire what you have achieved. When you go back home, I would like you to take the time to thank your parents for choosing to send you to a French immersion school. Your parents took a risk because, in many cases, the final outcome is not necessarily known. Please thank them on my behalf and on behalf of my colleagues as well, no doubt.
I would like to go back to the use of technologies and social media to stay connected to the francophone community in Canada, or even in your regions. Do social media play a role in your life as regards learning French and keeping in touch with all the friends you made in Quebec, Whitehorse or elsewhere in Canada?
Ms. Belliveau: I could not keep in touch with all my friends without Facebook. When I attended the national forum in 2012, I did not know at the time that there were francophone communities outside Quebec and New Brunswick, because I was from New Brunswick. I did not know of any others. When I went there, I realized that there are francophones all over and that they are often in a minority. I thought we were in a minority at home, but the communities elsewhere are in an even smaller minority.
Thanks to Facebook, I am still in touch with them. Sometimes, when they are in Moncton, we meet and talk in French. We usually communicate in French because they are francophones or francophiles. The majority of our contacts are in French. On my Facebook page, I have a lot of content in English, but I also have a lot in French. Simply by reading, I am exposed to both languages at the same time. These networks are really a good way of keeping in touch with francophones and francophiles and those who are passionate about bilingualism right across Canada. We will always keep in touch with them to see what is happening in their community and what they are doing, while also trying to forge partnerships.
Ms. Albert: Communicating via Facebook or texting people on the far coast of Canada is really great and important. That is something that might be encouraged outside the classroom because what is important in class is talking and speaking out loud; we do not want technology to stand in the way of that. YouTube videos also help me a lot with my accent.
Senator Gagné: We are talking about modernizing the Official Languages Act. Should federal institutions use methods that are a bit more modern to reach out to young people and to communicate in both official languages? If so, what would you recommend?
[English]
Ms. Skinner: A good example is Experiences Canada. They have an Instagram page and a Twitter page and all these things, and they keep us updated on things that are happening. It works to keep us connected. Sometimes I'll see something and I'll tell my friends about it. I will be, "Hey, have you seen this? This is happening.''
If the government starts to publicize things on social media, it will get to more young people. Once it gets going, a lot more people are going to get involved because people are going to tell their friends. And they'll say, "Hey, you know, this is going on; don't you think this is cool?'' Then it will get the ball rolling and hopefully snowball into a big ball of just francophonie.
Ms. Albert: In my elementary school, there's always that year when you have pen pals in Quebec. That was also a highlight of the year, but maybe now that we have so much technology it could be that you exchange numbers with someone who lives in Quebec and then you guys can text in French, or even FaceTime now that that's such an easy application. Then can you have actual conversations with someone from another part of the country. If everyone had a partner, I feel that would be a very cool program that we could implement.
Ms. Morrison: We had a great conversation that they're being too polite to tell you about. Facebook and email are like old school. That's stuff they don't even do anymore. And certainly using social media is absolutely essential in terms of reaching out and doing outreach and advocacy. But I also say schools themselves are getting much more adept at that. They have smart boards. They have means of having telecommunications.
As far as face-to-face exchanges, if we can't have all youth travel across the country, meet each other and have these amazing experiences, the next best thing will be focusing on virtual exchanges and doing them much earlier so, as they get older, they want to have face-to-face experiences.
Senator Fraser: If this is about the future, I think it's going to be in good hands. Thank you all. You're terrific. I am doubly impressed that you're all women. I think that's great.
I would second Senator Gagné's request for you to thank your parents. I know you all appreciate now, but you'll appreciate more and more. Let me tell you, 50 years later I'm grateful that my unilingual anglo parents said if I was going to be a Canadian I was going to speak both languages. But it's not easy. When you get into the pluperfect and the subjunctive, it's horrible.
For those of you in immersion, are your teachers by and large actual francophones?
Ms. Albert: Yes.
Ms. Belliveau: When I went through immersion, it was probably 75 per cent to 80 per cent were francophone. The rest were bilingual, but their level of French was fairly good, if not advanced or superior. They had a lot of ease in the language. I never had a teacher who I thought, oh, my gosh, cannot speak French.
Senator Fraser: Was this the case for you too, francophone teachers?
Ms. Skinner: Most of my teachers are francophone and, if not, they're fully bilingual.
Senator Fraser: We do hear about difficulties in attracting francophone teachers to teach in immersion schools.
Ms. Peters: I'm not part of immersion, but as I grew up, in high school, all three of my French teachers bilingual, but earlier than that, from Grade 4 to Grade 8, one of them was. Otherwise, no, they were just put in the situation where they had to do it and so they made it work.
Senator Fraser: Even if they didn't understand the language?
Ms. Peters: Yes, or they would translate stuff wrong or pronounce stuff wrong. I later found that I was pronouncing words incorrectly.
Senator Fraser: It's not very encouraging, is it?
Ms. Peters: No.
Ms. Albert: I know in Grade 5, they start to teach French to English program students, and that's really a turning point that will motivate. A lot of the best French speakers in my French classes are elite immersion students, and they were inspired to get into French immersion, late immersion, because of their amazing Grade 5 teachers. However, there's an issue of Grade 5 teachers not knowing the language, not understanding the culture, sometimes not even teaching that class because it doesn't feel necessary. Then we've lost all of those potential late immersion students.
Senator Fraser: You've all talked about culture, and we all know that, like any artistic endeavour you care to name, there is fabulous stuff happening in French in Canada. It's really amazing. But I'm wondering if in your schools or your communities, you manage to get live exposure to French theatre or French music. There's a point to this, so let me ask you whether this would be a good idea or not and then you can embroider. The Government of Canada used to, and I believe has started again, finance Canadian artists travelling abroad. I don't know if there's a program for Canadian artists to travel across the country, and specifically in your case francophone artists. Would that be of interest?
Ms. Albert: Yes. That would be amazing. I'd love that.
Senator Fraser: Do you think it might pull in some of your otherwise uninterested fellow students?
Ms. Albert: Absolutely. Being an ambassador for Francais de l'aveir, I was able to go to Victoria and help at their local forum. We had an improv team from Ottawa, I believe, and it was hilarious. I had such a good time. I wanted them to come back to my school and do it for the school. I think funding would be very special and helpful.
Ms. Belliveau: Just to add on to that, when I went through immersion, it was more so English high school that I was going to so we didn't have a lot of cultural education. We pretty much had nothing. Even in New Brunswick, the most they told us about the Acadians was they were deported and that was pretty much it. So I learned my Acadian history and heritage — my own heritage — when I went to university. At the Université de Moncton, I went and studied in my second language. Since I've been there, the university being a francophone institution, it gives a lot of money. We have a lot of francophone artists that are from the region but also from other parts of Canada come in with movies, music, theatre and everything. We have that.
When I went through the French second language program at the Université de Moncton, all through my four years of my degree, I could go see the coordinator of that and I could get tickets to go see whatever show in French free. That was a grant that the university gave. It gave French language second students the opportunity to experience the culture, and I know that once I was able to experience the culture, I was that much more motivated to go and learn the French because it wasn't just a stuffy language that I was learning in the classroom. It actually applied outside, it applied to movies, it applied to theatre, it applied to a book. It applies to everything else. I actually had tangible access. I could see it for the first time.
Yes, going through immersion, I knew it would be important. We get the speeches that it's important for jobs, economically, all of that, but actually learning the culture and experiencing it changed my outlook on the language.
If we could experience it in primary school, middle school and high school, we might be able to keep that many more students from switching out of French immersion, or once they leave French immersion to continue their French. I just finished my bachelor's degree, and everyone that I graduated with who went through French immersion, I would say three quarters can barely speak French anymore. And they were bilingual when they finished high school, but they didn't use their French. They didn't have any attachment to the language. They just thought why would I keep it? I speak English.
If we can get that connection earlier, it might create more bilingual Canadians down the road.
Ms. Skinner: I want to give a shout out to all the French immersion teachers at my school. They are super involved and always trying to give us French cultural experiences. Julia talked about the crepe truck that comes twice a year. If that crepe truck came more often, I bet you there would be so many more French immersion students.
But, yes, I'm really lucky at my school to be able to experience French theatre. We have that lovely crepe truck and lots of other events that our French immersion leadership club puts on. But I would like to see that in more schools because I'm sure lots of people would enjoy being in French immersion more if it weren't just sitting in class and conjugating verbs. If they got to experience those crepes, I'm sure they would love it as much as I do.
Ms. Albert: It's definitely one thing to learn about French, the grammar, very important, but it's so different to live in French; to be talking about the news, talking about things that you would talk about in English but doing it in French.
Our teachers often talk about starting a French co-op program where you could go out and work at jobs and speak in French while you're at it. That would definitely influence it.
It's so sad to hear that many of your friends lost their French as soon as they graduated from high school. That is such a trend.
Between me and everyone that I talked to, we all want to be bilingual. That's the goal. It's so cool to be completely good at French and English and to master both languages. Sadly, once you graduate from high school, you're not at that level of complete mastery of both languages. Students tend to feel embarrassed to speak French in public because their accent is not perfect or they don't have as much of a vocabulary as they would like.
Ms. Peters: Our school is the total opposite of what Khaleela is describing. We have nothing at all. The most we have is when we do crepe sales for fundraisers or when we go to Experiences Canada and we do the exchange, or when we go to Festival du Voyageur in Winnipeg. The most French culture I've experienced was when I went to Quebec or to Winnipeg to the festival. It's sad because I'm learning this language but I know nothing about the people. I know nothing about what's behind it. I can just speak a little bit of it.
As said about immersion, they come out being able to speak it but later they can't. I'm not in immersion, but I have friends who took some vocabulary in elementary school but now they know how to say "fromage,'' but besides that, they don't. Most of the time, they are disappointed, and I'm sitting back here thinking, "Why didn't you just keep going with it?'' I think it's because we weren't getting engaged with it. We weren't experiencing it more than just speaking the language; we weren't feeling the language or feeling the culture and seeing how it's more than just a language but a culture as well.
Senator Moncion: One of the solutions is to find a French partner. You will keep up with the language. Here's a little anecdote. My daughter-in-law went to French immersion, and when she finished school, she didn't speak the language for a long time until she met my son. She came to our house and she was speaking English at dinner, and I said, "Listen young lady, if you want to eat here, you'll have to speak French.'' They're now married, she speaks French, they have a son and he's going to speak French, and she even texts in French, just to give you a little bit of insight.
You were talking about history and how you had very little information about the history of Acadians. This is one of the ways that we destroy a culture: by not speaking the language and by not telling the story. You still see it today with some events that are going on right now for the one hundred and fiftieth, where part of history has been completely ignored.
[Translation]
That said, I will ask my question in French. What awareness activates should we conduct in schools to get your friends interested in the beauty of the official languages?
[English]
What can we bring into your schools that will get your friends interested in learning the language — not the verbs, the language?
Ms. Peters: I think a major part is to start them young and to not wait until they're 17, or even until they're 15, and to start them at the elementary age, whether they're in immersion or not. Then they can love it before it's hard. They can love hearing it or love it without going through the pain of conjugating verbs when you're writing. There are some points where I hate it because it's so frustrating.
Senator Moncion: It was frustrating for us too, and I'm French.
Ms. Peters: I think it's important to raise awareness among the younger grades, but not just when you're young. It should continue as you grow up, instead of just when you're in Grade 4 and you say, "French is so awesome.'' You should also be able to say it's awesome as you grow up so you can maintain that passion and you don't lose it because you're stuck in a classroom on a summer day and you don't want to conjugate this verb.
[Translation]
Ms. Belliveau: I think it is important, in history class, to teach young people that our country was born of the union of the two languages. There was never any question of anglophones living separately from us. No, they joined with Quebec, then with the Acadians, and with Manitoba and Alberta, which were primarily French-speaking provinces at one time, but became primarily English-speaking as a result of certain events.
That is something I learned very late in life. Young people should be taught that our country was devised and built on this issue of languages. Perhaps it is only in New Brunswick that certain anglophones are strongly opposed to bilingualism because it costs them too much. Since their province is in so much debt, they wonder why they should be bilingual. It is probably because they do not understand or were never taught that Canada is fundamentally not just English-speaking. Even though English is the language of the majority, Canada it is not an anglophone country; it is a bilingual country.
So teaching our country's history could perhaps be a way of explaining the rationale for bilingualism, why there are francophone minorities — or majorities — in all parts of Canada. If we can at least make people realize this, perhaps they will be more open to bilingualism and to the French fact.
[English]
Ms. Albert: I think there's a real value that comes with guest speakers and having them come to elementary schools and high schools. For example, I participated in the Jeun'Info with Radio-Canada.
[Translation]
For a report I was doing on women's competitive swimming, I interviewed the Olympic swimmer Hilary Caldwell who told me that speaking French had made her life as an international athlete easier.
[English]
Yesterday, I was doing a socials project and I had to interview someone about a part of Canada's history, and I happened to be interviewing my grandma's friend who survived the holocaust and was put into an orphanage in Belgium. She spoke French more comfortably, and I could completely connect with her on a different level using French. Those types of eye-opening experiences really help students to recognize the value that comes with learning another language.
Senator Moncion: A bit of insight: When you have your crepe days, call it "French cuisine day'' and you'll get even more people.
The Chair: We're ready for a second round, as some of the senators have indicated they are interested in asking a second question.
I want to ask you something: What role do you see for the federal government? You're all so very committed to becoming bilingual. What role can the federal government undertake to help you become bilingual?
Ms. Skinner: I touched on this a little during my speech. It all comes down to money, especially in my community of White Rock and in the rest of Surrey, where we need teachers. There's a demand for French immersion and there's a lottery. There are so many parents and so many kids who want to be involved, but sadly, they can't because we don't have the resources and we don't have the teachers to help us out. So, please, fund the teaching programs.
Ms. Belliveau: I know it's tough, too, because education is a provincial competence so the federal government can't just go and do whatever they wish. It's too bad, because if we could get more money and more resources, that would be great. It would even help to have programs like you mentioned to have francophone artists come in different regions. Schools could use that or stuff like that.
Just set the example. I know all federal institutions are bilingual, but really set that example and show that it's possible to be bilingual and to offer services the same way in both languages. I know that goes a long way.
I also know the federal government supports organizations like Experiences Canada and French for the Future and that has a big impact too, because without the federal grants that we get, we wouldn't be able to take on and do all the projects that we do that inspire youth every year to do so.
The Chair: The Official Languages Committee just finished a very good report, I would say, on the challenges identified with access to French immersion programs and in francophone schools. One of our key recommendations was support for more teachers, increased teacher training, linguistic proficiency, and linguistic and cultural exchanges, both for teachers and for students.
[Translation]
I think that is in line with what you said.
[English]
Ms. Albert: Then they offer more courses in grade 11 and grade 11, because at this point, the only class offered in French is our French course. The socials, sciences or maths aren't offered in French anymore. That causes students to lose their French. A lot of my friends feel like they spoke French more easily and at a better level in grade 7 versus now because they are not using it as much.
Also, teachers are constantly telling us that we will have an advantage and get a job more easily when we're older, and everyone is on the same page, but we don't see what jobs that will bring other than in government positions and working for Air Canada or something like that. I feel there could be a career day or something like that specifically geared toward French opportunities.
[Translation]
The Chair: Would you consider continuing your postsecondary education in French?
Ms. Albert: Yes, I would like to.
Ms. Belliveau: I did.
Senator Gagné: My question follows up on Senator Tardif's question. You said the government's role is to support and promote French, and that funding should be increased. Do you think the Government of Canada wants to provide support and further assistance for the learning of French and the promotion of the two official languages?
Ms. Albert: In Canada?
Senator Gagné: In Canada.
Ms. Albert: In British Columbia, I think there is a real indifference to the French language, but in Canada as a whole I think everyone appreciates having two official languages. Being involved is what is really needed to promote that. It is not valued as much as it could be.
Ms. Belliveau: Could you repeat the question?
Senator Gagné: It was said that more funding would be needed to support more activities, and so forth. Do you think the government is willing to support the learning of French and to promote French and English across the country?
Ms. Belliveau: I think so. I see that increasingly. Perhaps I did not see or feel that as much in the past, but in recent years, new programs have been unveiled or old programs have been reinstated, such as the court challenges program for cases in French. It seems that the federal government wants to help us on various matters. There is still more work to be done though.
I also think that individual members of the public do not know what is happening in the federal government as regards the official languages. I am aware because it is an area that I work in, but perhaps the average citizen is not. My parents would not know what is going on if I did not tell them, if I was not involved in the field. There is also a lack of knowledge.
[English]
Ms. Peters: On that concept of funding, coming from a small school, funding is greatly appreciated and wanted. When we did Experiences Canada on our exchange to Quebec, that was mainly because we received funding. There were only 22 of us, and you can't do that much fundraising in a small school because you hit the same people. You can't raise your total funds by just doing that. Giving out money and funding smaller schools to be able to experience stuff like that would definitely increase the population of people learning French.
Senator Bovey: I want to clarify something. Julia, did I hear you correctly when you said that for the grade 12 exam, only 30 of you each term are allowed to write the exam free, and the other students have to pay to write a final exam?
Ms. Albert: Yes. The DALF exam.
Senator Bovey: That's the international one, right?
Ms. Albert: Yes.
Senator Bovey: If we're talking about understanding culture and having future job opportunities, having that credential is pretty necessary, isn't it?
Ms. Albert: Yes.
Senator Bovey: Do you think finding a way so that all Canadian students can take that exam is something that would be beneficial?
Ms. Albert: Absolutely. Without the exam, there are students that don't end up completing it. In B.C., you would graduate with a "double dogwood diploma,'' but that means that if I came to Ontario, I wouldn't be considered bilingual because it is individual to each province. You need that DALF exam to have international recognition. We should focus on that.
Ms. Morrison: I would go further to say that if there were some way — not even a scholarship or money — but recognizing that they've achieved DALF and giving them some kind of certificate would be motivation enough for a lot of people to continue with the program. It is just another thing for university entrance and all those things.
Senator Bovey: I wanted to flag that, because it is important, and I think it is discriminatory not allowing all the students who are ready to write the exam to do it.
Ms. Morrison: Many schools don't do it all, because there's no funding for that.
Ms. Belliveau: We don't do it in New Brunswick. This is the first time I've heard of it. I took the New Brunswick proficiency test so I have a provincial certificate judging my proficiency in the language, but as Julia said, if I were to move to Ontario, Quebec or Alberta, I would have to take another proficiency test because it is only applicable in my province.
Senator Bovey: Madam Chair, I would suggest that as we look at the act and we see how we can equalize those opportunities.
The Chair: Absolutely. It's a good suggestion, Senator Bovey. Many witnesses in the past have strongly recommended that there be a common frame of reference for language learning and evaluation of skills. There is the common European framework and a desire to have an adaptation in Canada of that particular model. I think the DALF fits that context.
Senator Gagné: It was part of our recommendations, I believe, in the last study.
The Chair: Yes. The question of equitable access is a very important issue, not only in British Columbia but in many other provinces. Our committee has deplored the fact that many parents do not have access. Students are on long waiting lists. There are lottery systems. There are not enough spaces in the school system. There is a demand, and that demand is not being filled.
[Translation]
That was one of the committee's findings in our study.
[English]
Senator Fraser: This is not a question but a comment. I was touched by Courtney, I think, who said, "It's hard to see jobs other than in the federal government.''
There are lots of jobs for having the two languages. It is a tremendous asset. I was a journalist, and the biggest breaks I got from the get-go came because I was able to speak both languages. I can't write very well in French but, fortunately, I was able to write in English. I did broadcasting in French. There is a world there that opens. If you are a journalist, you usually aspire to be either a foreign correspondent or in the Parliamentary Press Gallery. For either of those, having both languages is an enormous asset.
If you are going into the law, or if you want to be a Supreme Court judge, get your second language. It's not just for the Supreme Court, because there is extraordinary jurisprudence in French. It's not just about civil law but criminal law and constitutional law. You will be a better lawyer if you can read that.
If you want to be a diplomat, it's the same thing. If you want to be a politician, step one is to be aware that your future federally will be sharply limited if you don't have both languages, and it's much harder to pick it up later when you are busy with your constituents and your everything. Do it now, and more.
Ms. Albert: Even to encourage elementary school students to speak French, as far as jobs, if I was a parent, I would hire a student babysitter that spoke French and I would say, "Speak French with my child.'' Even areas like that or daycares could be offered in French, too.
[Translation]
The Chair: The committee thanks you very much. We appreciate your sharing your stories and experiences with us. You are already young leaders in your schools and communities. You can certainly be proud of your success so far, and we are very proud of you. Keep up your good work.
I hope you will continue to be ambassadors for bilingualism in Canada. This reflects Canada's linguistic duality and multiculturalism, as you said in your presentation, Nicolette. Keep spreading the message. We are delighted that you were able to join us this evening.
Thank you ever so much, and our thanks to organizations such as Experiences Canada and French for the Future which play a vital role in keeping young people motivated and engaged in learning the language and culture.
Senator Moncion: To add to what you said, Madam Chair, we invite you to take our place one day.
The Chair: Definitely.
We will now continue briefly in camera.
(The committee continued in camera.)
(Public proceedings resumed.)
The Chair: Senator Fraser proposes the adoption of the report calling for public meetings and a fact-finding mission in Prince Edward Island, from September 22 to 24, 2017.
Senator Gagné: I suppose the budget also has to be announced. So the budget is $67,400, Senator Fraser?
Senator Fraser: Yes.
Hon. members: Okay.
The Chair: Unanimously adopted.
Do you approve the appearance of the President of the Treasury Board, Mr. Scott Brison, on June 19, 2017?
Senator Fraser: Yes, assuming that the Senate is still sitting, but if there is some miracle, I am not sure everyone would want to come back from the West.
The Chair: We will see at the time. You are right, senator, but I think we would be dreaming. On that note, the meeting is adjourned.
(The meeting adjourned.)