THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON AUDIT AND OVERSIGHT
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Wednesday, November 25, 2020
The Standing Committee on Audit and Oversight met by videoconference this day at 6:30 p.m. [ET], pursuant to rule 12-13 of the Rules of the Senate, to organize the activities of the committee.
[English]
Shaila Anwar, Clerk of the Committee: Honourable senators, it’s my duty, as clerk of this committee, to preside over the election of the chair. I am ready to receive motions to that effect.
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: I move that Senator David Wells take the chair.
[English]
Ms. Anwar: Are there any other nominations?
[Translation]
It is moved by the Honourable Senator Dupuis that the Honourable Senator Wells do take the chair of this committee.
[English]
Honourable senators, do you wish to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Ms. Anwar: I declare the motion carried, and I invite Senator Wells to take the chair.
Senator David Wells (Chair) in the chair.
The Chair: Thank you very much, colleagues, and thank you very much specifically to Senator Dupuis and Senator Downe. It’s my pleasure to chair this committee and have you as my colleagues on the committee.
I would now like to go to item 2 on our agenda, the election of the deputy chair. I move that Senator Dupuis be deputy chair of this committee.
Are there any other nominations from the floor? Seeing none, thank you, Senator Dupuis; you are deputy chair of the committee.
Item 3, colleagues, research staff. Senator Downe, would you like to move this motion?
Senator Downe: I move the motion.
The Chair: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Downe:
That the committee ask the Library of Parliament to assign research analysts to the committee, as may be required;
That the chair and deputy chair be authorized to retain the services of such experts as may be required by the work of the committee; and
That the chair, on behalf of the committee, direct the research and administration staff in the preparation of studies, analyses, summaries, and draft reports.
Do we have agreement, colleagues?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator Wells: Thank you. I would also like to welcome at this time the analysts who have been assigned to this committee by the Library of Parliament.
Ms. Isabelle Brideau has been an analyst at the Library of Parliament since April 2017. She has worked on the Standing Senate Committee on Ethics and Conflict of Interest for Senators and the Standing Senate Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament. Ms. Brideau has also provided support to the Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples and the Standing Committee on Natural Resources in the House of Commons. During her first two years at the Library, she was assigned to the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the House of Commons. Prior to her work with the Library, she did a two-year clerkship with the Court Martial Appeal Court of Canada and was called to the bar of Ontario in 2017. She is an excellent addition to our team.
Our second analyst is Ms. Lindsay McGlashan. She has been an analyst at the Library of Parliament since November 2011 and has worked on the House of Commons Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates for most of that time. She has also worked with the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Accounts and has assisted two Senate standing committees: National Finance, and Foreign Affairs and International Trade. Ms. McGlashan is a Chartered Professional Accountant and has a background in financial accounting and audit. She has worked in the financial audit field at the Office of the Auditor General from 2009 to 2011. Prior to that, she worked at KPMG in Bermuda and KPMG in Canada. I welcome both analysts to our committee and look forward to your good service.
Item 4, colleagues, on communications:
That the chair and deputy chair be empowered to direct communications officer(s) assigned to the committee in the development of communications plans and products where appropriate and to request the services of the Senate Communications Directorate for the purposes of the promotion of their work.
Do we have a mover of that motion?
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: I propose the motion.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Dupuis. All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you. Passed. I would also like to note that Ben Silverman from the Communications Directorate has been assigned as our communications officer. Ben will work with the committee, follow our committee’s activities and provide tailored communications plans and studies on the reports of the organization.
I would also like to mention at this time, colleagues, that while this committee reports to the Senate, as all Senate committees do, it’s not lost on any of us that we are really reporting to the public as well. I will endeavour, as chair, to ensure that our messaging is clear to the public as well as our regular reports.
I would also like to welcome and thank Shaila Anwar as clerk of our committee. Shaila, as you all know, is Deputy Principal Clerk of the Senate. She has been with the Senate for 15 years, all of that time with the Committees Directorate, so we know we have a good hand on the wheel. She has been clerk of many different committees, including Legal and Constitutional Affairs, National Security and Defence, National Finance and Social Affairs.
She has also noted in her biography that she is a big fan of the Ottawa Senators, as we all are, perhaps not as our primary team, but we welcome that perspective as well. I want to welcome all our staff to the committee.
Item 5, colleagues, the authority to commit funds and certify accounts. Senator Downe?
Senator Downe: Yes. Chair, I can read the motion, if you like, as well. We all have a copy. I move:
That, pursuant to Section 7, Chapter 3:06 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority to commit funds be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chair, and the clerk of the committee; and
That pursuant to Section 8, Chapter 3:06 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority for certifying accounts payable by the committee be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chair, and the clerk of the committee.
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Downe. Colleagues, are we in agreement?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you. That’s passed. Item 6, travelling and living expenses of witnesses.
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: I move:
That, pursuant to the Senate guidelines for witness expenses, the committee may reimburse reasonable travelling and living expenses for one witness from any one organization and payment will take place upon application, but that the chair be authorized to approve expenses for a second witness should there be exceptional circumstances.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you. All those in favour, colleagues?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Moving on to item 7. Publication of public proceedings.
Senator Downe: I move:
That the committee publish its public proceedings.
The Chair: Thank you. All those in favour?
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: Yes.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you. That has passed.
Number 8, Senator Dupuis, in camera transcripts.
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: I move:
That in camera transcripts and documents be kept with the clerk for consultation by committee members; and
That no records be destroyed without authorization from the committee.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you. Colleagues, thank you for that. All those in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Senators’ staff, I would like to propose, “That each committee member be allowed to have one staff person present at in camera meetings.”
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you. Number 9, Senator Downe?
Senator Downe: I move:
That the committee adopt a report to the Senate proposing that, notwithstanding rules 12-13(4) and 12-6(2), it be authorized to continue to meet with a quorum of three senators for the purposes of establishing a process for the nomination of the two external members; and
That the chair present the report to the Senate.
The Chair: Thank you. All those in favour of the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you. Approved. Item 10, Senator Dupuis.
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: I move:
That for the purposes of its consideration of a process for the appointment of the two external members, the chair, in consultation with the deputy chair, be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the committee with respect to its agenda, to invite witnesses, and to schedule hearings; and
That, for substantive issues related to the mandate of the committee that are not of a merely administrative or routine nature, the chair shall not convene meetings nor take decisions until the external members have been appointed by the Senate.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you very much. All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: I have a question, Senator Wells. Is it in item 10 that we determine the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure is made up of the chair and the deputy chair?
[English]
The Chair: Ms. Anwar, did we address the chair and deputy chair of the subcommittee of steering at this point?
Ms. Anwar: The Rules require that a subcommittee be no more than half the membership of the committee. At this time there are three members with two to follow. Colloquially, yes, I’m sure we will refer to it as “steering,” but it’s not officially the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure. The motion empowers the chair and deputy chair to make the decisions that a steering committee would normally undertake to do. This motion is for the purposes of the consideration of the process for the nomination of the external members. So for this particular item of business that we are considering with such a small group, unless senators feel differently, it’s probably a manageable authority.
The Chair: Thank you for that question, Senator Dupuis. Quorum for consideration of the external members would be the three — [Technical difficulties] — on the committee. And once the external members have been accepted on the committee by the Senate, then, as per our current practice and this motion, steering would consist of the chair and deputy chair. We can have further discussion on that later.
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: No, it’s all right.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Dupuis. Okay. Item 11, colleagues. Senator Downe?
Senator Downe: Thank you. I move:
That the committee seek the authorization of the Senate to meet in a hybrid or all-virtual format.
The Chair: Okay. All those in favour?
Hon. Senators: Yes.
The Chair: Thank you. Adopted. Item 12, Senator Dupuis.
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: I move:
That the clerk of the committee be instructed to work with the Office of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel on any legal issues that may arise as the committee develops its internal practices and procedures, including issues related to facilitating the committee’s work during intersessional periods.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you. All those in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Adopted. Item 13.
Senator Downe: Chair, I move:
That the chair be authorized to seek the authority of the Senate to cause that papers and documents received and/or produced by the Subcommittee on Audit of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration from the First Session of the Forty-second Parliament and the First and Second Sessions of the Forty‑second Parliament, be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Audit and Oversight.
The Chair: All those in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Adopted. Colleagues, that is so we can have a smooth transition from the Audit Subcommittee of CIBA.
Item 14, Senator Dupuis.
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: I move:
That the chair seek authority of the Senate that for the duration of the current session, the Standing Committee on Audit and Oversight be authorized to sit even though the Senate may then be sitting and that rule 12-18(1) be suspended in relation thereto.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Dupuis. All those in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Adopted. Senator Downe, item 15.
Senator Downe: I move:
That the committee seek the authorization of the Senate to meet in a hybrid or all-virtual format.
The Chair: All those in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Adopted. That’s so, during this time of the pandemic, we can meet virtually when necessary. We have rules in place that require us to isolate for two weeks whenever we land on our islands. This will certainly help.
We are going on to Other Business.
I just wanted to again welcome Ms. Anwar, Ms. Brideau, Ms. McGlashan and Mr. Silverman to the team. We have a lot of work in front of us, and I appreciate the expertise you all bring to the work.
Colleagues, we can talk about our work plan. Of course, the item that will be in front of us for the next short while — I don’t know how short that is — is the setting out of a work plan including the terms of reference, remuneration and scheduling for the external members. I suggest that we all give some consideration to that, and the next time we get together we can put some ideas on the table. The work of the committee, in our specific work of audit and oversight, really can’t begin until the committee is complete. I know we’ve had some conversations, but now it’s time to formalize it. At our next meeting we’ll have something put together so we can present and discuss it.
Our next meeting, Ms. Anwar, do you have a recommendation on that?
Ms. Anwar: I don’t at this time. I will have to take a look at the calendar for next week. There is some discussion about the Senate possibly altering its sitting times. Until we know that, it will be difficult to find a specific time. Towards the end of the week there will probably be opportunities for the committee to meet.
The Chair: That’s next week.
Ms. Anwar: The instruction for the chair to seek authority to sit while the Senate is sitting is also something that will facilitate that, but that will not happen until the second sitting day next week at the earliest. We will resolve to get some of those issues sorted out, and I can propose some times that might work next week. There is probably some material that senators would appreciate getting from the staff, and so we will need some time to put that together as well.
The Chair: Certainly the report that we are considering presenting to the Senate next week will give us a lot more flexibility than we currently have.
Colleagues, was there anything else you would like to address under Other Business?
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: I have a question for you, Senator Wells. I haven’t had time to familiarize myself with the first report draft that was sent to us. May I read it tomorrow and send you my comments?
[English]
The Chair: Yes, of course. I won’t be tabling that until early next week, probably on Tuesday. So we have some time to work on that, the three of us and our staff.
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: That answers my question, thank you.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you.
Ms. Anwar: I would add, senators, that I have sent an email from Mr. Silverman with Twitter tiles for your approval just to announce the election of the chair and the deputy chair. You can respond to the email, and we’ll take care of getting that posted.
The Chair: Thank you for that, Ms. Anwar.
Colleagues, if there are no other items on the agenda, I thank you for your time and participation in the meeting today. I thank the staff and the people behind the scenes. I now adjourn this meeting.
(The committee adjourned.)