THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON INTERNAL ECONOMY, BUDGETS AND ADMINISTRATION
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Thursday, November 19, 2020
The Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration met by videoconference this day at 11 a.m. [ET], pursuant to rule 12-7(1), in consideration of financial and administrative matters; and, in camera, pursuant to rule 12-7(1), in consideration of financial and administrative matters.
Senator Sabi Marwah (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Good morning, everyone. My name is Sabi Marwah, I am a senator from Ontario and I have the privilege of chairing the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration.
Today we will be conducting a hybrid meeting with some senators participating virtually and others being here in person. This meeting will start in public and a portion of the meeting will be in camera. Before we begin, I would like to remind honourable senators participating virtually of the best practices for a successful meeting. Please keep your microphone muted at all times unless recognized by name to speak. When speaking, you have the choice at the bottom of your screen of either English, French or no simultaneous translation. The new version of Zoom, which has been updated on all of your computers, no longer requires senators listening on the floor channel to switch to either the English or French channel —
Senator Plett: Excuse me, chair, we have French coming through on the English channel here.
The Chair: It’s a human error, Senator Plett. Are you okay now? I thought you would be fully bilingual by now.
Senator Plett: I am, but unfortunately not in both of our official languages. I am bilingual.
The Chair: Should members want to request the floor, please use the “raise hand” feature if you are attending virtually or advise the clerk if you are attending in person. Should any technical or other challenges arise, please signal this to the chair, as Senator Plett just did, and the technical team will work to resolve the issue.
I would now like to introduce the senators who are participating in the meeting: Senator Larry Campbell, British Columbia; Senator Claude Carignan, Quebec; Senator Dennis Dawson, Quebec; Senator Tony Dean, Ontario; Senator Éric Forest, Quebec; Senator Josée Forest-Niesing, Ontario; Senator Raymonde Gagné, Manitoba; Senator Mobina Jaffer, British Columbia; Senator Elizabeth Marshall, Newfoundland and Labrador; Senator Yonah Martin, British Columbia; Senator Lucie Moncion, Ontario; Senator Jim Munson, Ontario; Senator Don Plett, Manitoba; Senator Judith Seidman, Quebec; Senator Scott Tannas, Alberta; Senator Yuen Pau Woo, British Columbia; and Senator Pierre Dalphond, Quebec. Welcome to all those viewing across the country.
Honourable senators, we will move to the first item. It is the approval of the public minutes from November 17, 2020, which is in your package. Are there any questions or changes? Can I have a mover for the motion?
It is moved by Senator Dean that the minutes of the proceedings of Tuesday, November 17, 2020, be adopted. In order to determine if this motion is adopted, the clerk will proceed with a roll call vote. I would ask senators participating virtually to unmute their microphones once their name is called.
Pascale Legault, Chief Corporate Services Officer and Clerk of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration, Senate of Canada: Honourable senators, I will call the members’ names beginning with the chair and then going in alphabetical order. Senators should indicate if they vote for, against or abstain, as simultaneous interpretation will be suspended for the vote, I will conduct the vote in both official languages.
The Honourable Senator Marwah?
Senator Marwah: For.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Campbell?
Senator Campbell: For.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Carignan?
Senator Carignan: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Dean?
Senator Dean: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Forest?
Senator Forest: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Forest-Niesing?
Senator Forest-Niesing: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Gagné?
Senator Gagné: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Jaffer?
Senator Jaffer: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Marshall?
Senator Marshall: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Martin?
Senator Martin: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Moncion?
Senator Moncion: For.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Munson?
Senator Munson: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Plett?
Senator Plett: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Seidman?
Senator Seidman: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Tannas?
Senator Tannas: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Woo?
Senator Woo: Yes.
Ms. Legault: Mr. Chair, we have 16 “yes” votes.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried. Honourable senators, the next item is a few organizational motions in addition to the ones we adopted at the meeting on Tuesday. It should be noted that these motions are all consistent with CIBA’s past practices. The only change relates to the addition of two participants to the in camera portion of the meeting to support both the Clerk of the Senate and the Law Clerk. Are there any questions or comments, senators?
I don’t see any hands up, so can I have a mover of the following motion:
That unless otherwise decided, the following support staff be authorized to be present during virtual in camera proceedings of the committee — shall I dispense?
Thank you. Again, honourable senators, can I have a mover of the following motion? Senator Campbell moves the motion.
In order to determine if this motion is adopted, the clerk will again proceed with a roll call vote.
Ms. Legault: Honourable senators, we will proceed in the same fashion as before.
The Honourable Senator Marwah?
Senator Marwah: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Campbell?
Senator Campbell: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Carignan?
Senator Carignan: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Dean?
Senator Dean: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Forest?
Senator Forest: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Forest-Niesing?
Senator Forest-Niesing: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Gagné?
Senator Gagné: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Jaffer?
Senator Jaffer: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Marshall?
Senator Marshall: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Martin?
Senator Martin: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Moncion?
Senator Moncion: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Munson?
Senator Munson: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Plett?
Senator Plett: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Seidman?
Senator Seidman: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Tannas?
Senator Tannas: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Woo?
Senator Woo: Yes.
Ms. Legault: Mr. Chair, we have 16 “yes” votes.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried.
Honourable senators, the next item is the creation of CIBA subcommittees and the advisory working group. At the beginning of each session of Parliament, CIBA must re-establish all its subcommittees and any working groups. Included in your package are the proposed mandates and composition. The only difference from our last session is that we are not creating the Audit Subcommittee, as it is being replaced by the Standing Committee on Audit and Oversight.
With respect to membership, similar to what was approved for the LTVP subcommittee last session, we have added a member from the PSG to each subcommittee. I have also been provided with a list of names for each subcommittee, of which I will advise you verbally.
Are there any questions or comments, colleagues? Can I have a mover of the following motion:
That the Subcommittee on Human Resources be established and authorized to examine and report on issues relating to human resources in the Senate —
Shall I dispense reading that motion? Senator Munson moves. Do we agree on the subcommittees now, or do you want to establish them first? How does it work?
Ms. Legault: You can provide the names of the members, because the members —
The Chair: Okay, why don’t I go over the names of the members of each subcommittee before we vote. On the Human Resources Subcommittee are Senators Seidman, Saint-Germain, Dean, Dawson and Campbell. On LTVP are Senators Plett, Forest-Niesing, Munson and Tannas, and one vacancy from the ISG. For Estimates, we have Senators Marshall, Moncion, Saint-Germain, Munson and Tannas. For Committee Budgets, we have Senators Carignan, Forest, Moncion, Munson and Campbell. On Communication, we have Senators Marshall, Marwah, Jaffer, Dawson and Campbell. On Diversity are Senators Seidman, Jaffer, Dean, Dawson and Tannas. Finally, on the Artwork Advisory Committee are Senators Stewart Olsen, Forest-Niesing, Bovey and White.
Could I have a mover for the motion?
Senator Plett: Chair, would you mind repeating Long-Term Vision and Plan for me, please?
The Chair: Yes, it is Senators Plett, Forest-Niesing, Munson and Tannas, and there is one more vacancy from the ISG, and I will advise you of that person shortly.
Senator Munson: On Diversity, do we have a name there?
The Chair: Yes, on Diversity was Senator Dawson for the PSG.
Senator Munson: Senator Dawson wanted to have Communications and —
The Chair: Why don’t we leave it at that, because we can always substitute when you are ready. These were the names given to us.
Senator Munson: He wanted Communications and —
The Chair: He’s on Communications, as well.
Senator Munson: No, but he’s also on —
The Chair: HR, Communications and Diversity.
Senator Munson: Yes, HR. I will put my name in for Diversity.
The Chair: No.
Senator Munson: Why not?
The Chair: If you would like to change from Senator Dawson to you, that’s fine, then.
Senator Plett: I’ll make the motion.
Senator Munson: Senator Dawson will be joining this meeting shortly. But I thought we had agreed, in our group — four and two for now.
The Chair: That’s fine with me. We can change that.
Senator Munson: If Senator Dawson wants to do Diversity, that’s fine.
The Chair: We’ll note the change for you on Diversity for now, and if it needs to be changed, we can do so later.
Senator Munson: Sure, yes. Thank you.
Senator Plett: I will move, chair.
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Plett.
Ms. Legault: We will proceed again with a roll call vote.
The Honourable Senator Marwah?
Senator Marwah: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Campbell?
Senator Campbell: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Carignan?
Senator Carignan: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Dean?
Senator Dean: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Forest?
Senator Forest: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Forest-Niesing?
Senator Forest-Niesing: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Gagné?
Senator Gagné: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Jaffer?
Senator Jaffer: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Marshall?
Senator Marshall: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Martin?
Senator Martin: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Moncion?
Senator Moncion: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Munson?
Senator Munson: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Plett?
Senator Plett: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Seidman?
Senator Seidman: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Tannas?
Senator Tannas: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Woo?
Senator Woo: Yes.
Ms. Legault: Mr. Chair, we have 16 “yes” votes.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried.
Moving to item 4, honourable senators, this is a report on the activities and expenditures of the parliamentary associations. Joining us is Jeremy LeBlanc, Acting Clerk Assistant and Director General of International and Interparliamentary Affairs. He will be joining us by video conference as a witness. Senator Plett will also be assisting with this item. As usual, the presentation will be followed by the time for questions.
Senator Plett, you may begin.
Senator Plett: Thank you very much, and good morning again, colleagues. As the Senate co-chair of the Joint Interparliamentary Council, I am pleased to present the parliamentary association’s activities and expenditures for the 2019-20 fiscal year, which details the activities and expenditures of the 13 parliamentary associations. With me, chair — and you have already introduced him — is Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc, the clerk of the council.
I wish to provide you with a general overview of the work of the association’s last fiscal year, which was somewhat unusual. The fall election reduced the level of activities in the fall, and the COVID-19 pandemic forced the cancellation of many activities this past winter. During the 2019-20 fiscal year, the 13 parliamentary associations travelled to 52 activities abroad in 32 different countries, compared to 72 activities last year and 50 activities during the last election year, 2015-16.
Associations welcomed 19 delegations from abroad to Canada this year compared to 58 last year. The average number of participants per outgoing activity went down slightly from 4.87 to 4.51 participants.
The total budgetary envelope for parliamentary associations for 2019-20 has remained the same as last year at $4,300,496. Total expenditures of $3,169,273 represented 74% budget utilization compared to last year’s expenditures, which represented a 91% utilization. During the last election year, 83% of the budget was used.
Transportation costs continue to represent the most significant expenditures, amounting to 62% of total expenditures.
In terms of the Senate’s participation in association activities, colleagues will note that 120 delegates were senators, representing 61% of the total number of 196 parliamentarians travelling. Of those 120 senators, I can confirm that 50 of them were from the ISG; 44 were Conservative senators; 23 were Senate Liberals; 1 was from the CSG, which was founded in November 2019; and 2 were non-affiliated.
For detailed information regarding each of the 13 associations, I refer you to section 3 of the report. There, you will find for each activity a breakdown of participants and costs by category: transportation, accommodation, per diems, hospitality and working meals, miscellaneous and registration fees for each activity conducted during the last fiscal year.
I wish to remind colleagues that this annual report, once reviewed here, is presented in the Senate Chamber and then published to the web; thus, this information is made available to the public.
Finally, I would also like to report that in addition to determining various budgetary and administrative matters relating to parliamentary associations, the Joint Interparliamentary Council has, in recent months, been closely monitoring the impact of the pandemic and has been periodically extending the moratorium on all International and Interparliamentary Affairs-supported international travel and incoming delegations it first adopted in March. That moratorium remains in place until at least February of next year.
That concludes my remarks. Certainly, Jeremy and I are prepared to entertain any questions, chair.
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Plett. Are there any questions for Mr. LeBlanc or Senator Plett?
Senator Munson: Thank you for that presentation, Senator Plett.
I have two questions regarding the Liberals. What group was that when you talked about the Liberals? That was before the —
Senator Plett: Before the PSG was formed, Senator Munson.
Senator Munson: Thank you. The other question is, should a vaccine become available to parliamentarians and to others in the international community or in the domestic community, would that move along travel? Would you revisit it at that time, after the latest date on the moratorium?
Senator Plett: We will be revisiting that date, Senator Munson, regardless of a vaccine. Certainly, if a vaccine came along, I would suspect that everyone would look on it favourably. I think everyone on the Joint Interparliamentary Council is anxious to get activities going, and that is why we have set these dates, similar to what the government is doing with border closings and openings, taking them a few months at a time.
Senator Munson: Thank you very much.
The Chair: Are there any other questions? I see no other questions, so can I have a mover of the following motion:
That the report of the parliamentary association’s activities and expenditures for the fiscal year 2019-20 be tabled in the Senate?
Senator Plett: I so move.
The Chair: Honourable senators, in order to determine if the motion is adopted, Ms. Legault will proceed with a roll call vote.
Ms. Legault: We will proceed in the same fashion as before.
The Honourable Senator Marwah?
Senator Marwah: For.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Campbell?
Senator Campbell: For.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Carignan?
Senator Carignan: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Dawson?
The Honourable Senator Dean?
Senator Dean: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Forest?
Senator Forest: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Forest-Niesing?
Senator Forest-Niesing: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Gagné?
Senator Gagné: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Jaffer?
Senator Jaffer: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Marshall?
Senator Marshall: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Martin?
Senator Martin: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Moncion?
Senator Moncion: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Munson?
Senator Munson: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Plett?
Senator Plett: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Seidman?
Senator Seidman: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Tannas?
Senator Tannas: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Woo?
Senator Woo: Yes.
Ms. Legault: Mr. Chair, we have 16 “yes” votes.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried. Moving to item 5, this is an update to Bill C-86, which includes the Pay Equity Act and its impact on the Senate. This item is for information only. Élise Hurtubise-Loranger, Senior Parliamentary Counsel, and Isabelle Leduc, HR Partnership Lead, will join the video conference as witnesses. Welcome, Élise and Isabelle. You may begin your presentation.
Élise Hurtubise-Loranger, Senior Parliamentary Counsel, Office of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will speak generally about the legislation, and then Isabelle will talk about some of the initial steps that the Human Resources Directorate has taken to get ready for the implementation of this act.
First, I would like to say that this is a piece of legislation that is somewhat challenging to discuss in the abstract. Hopefully, it will become much clearer when we start looking at actual jobs and positions within the Senate workplace and put these principles in context. I will go over some of the key milestones that are expected of us as an employer under the Pay Equity Act.
The first big milestone I would like to discuss is the establishment of the pay equity committee, so that will be the initial step the Senate will take to form this committee. There are requirements in the act that we need to follow; two thirds of the committee has to be employee representatives and at least 50% of the members on that committee must be women. Once that pay equity committee is established, their first mandate will be to establish and develop a pay equity plan for the organization. That has to be done within a three-year period and it will be the bulk of the work for the pay equity committee.
There are certain steps to be taken to establish that pay equity plan. Briefly, the first one will be to identify the job classes. That’s where we start to group positions and jobs that have similar responsibilities, qualifications and rates of pay. Once we have done that, we have to identify which job classes are predominantly female and which are predominantly male. The predominance is established at 60%, so once we’ve reached that threshold, we have predominance. If it’s between 50% and 60%, we have, at that point, what we call a gender-neutral job class.
When predominance is found, we then have to take the next step, which would be to identify the value of these job classes. That’s where we’re going to look at the criteria in the act to give us some guidance in terms of how we attribute that value. Once that is done, for those jobs where predominance is found, we will then calculate the rates of pay per hour, and all of that data will allow us to compare apples with apples. We will be able to look at predominantly male jobs and predominantly female jobs, and compare them to see where the wage gaps are and make adjustments accordingly to bring the average — usually it’s an average — to the same level.
Eventually, this may result in salary adjustments. We don’t know where we will end up following that process, but it may result in some salary readjustments. One interesting element is that the new salary is automatically incorporated into collective agreements where our employees are under a collective agreement.
I will stop there. Those are the key highlights from the legislation, and I will ask my colleague Isabelle to take it from here.
[Translation]
Isabelle Leduc, Lead, HR Partnership, Human Resources Directorate, Senate of Canada: We started working with a consultant, who specializes in the review of job descriptions and pay equity. After a call for tenders, we hired Sandra Haydon & Associates. We started working with the firm in October. Many documents and pieces of information were sent to our consultant. We should have a preliminary report within two weeks and a final report in January. Our consultant’s main mandates will be to review job descriptions and the job structure; assess how job categories are designed; identify potential issues; create a pay equity committee; prepare a financial analysis; and design a communications plan. These major mandates were given to our consultant, who is working with us. Do you have any questions?
[English]
The Chair: Are there any questions for Élise and Isabelle, senators?
[Translation]
Senator Moncion: Are management positions included in your analysis?
Ms. Hurtubise-Loranger: Yes. All levels in the organization are included in the analysis.
Senator Moncion: When conducting the analysis, are you also making comparisons with equivalent positions, such as positions in the House of Commons?
Ms. Hurtubise-Loranger: Not necessarily. The analysis is being conducted internally. The only time we could require an external analysis would be if we didn’t have a specific job category, for example, if there were male-dominated positions. At that point, according to the rule published on Saturday, which is very recent and which we’re still analyzing, certain mechanisms are in place that would enable us to make an external comparison. However, this is the only opportunity. The comparison is usually made within the organization.
Senator Moncion: Thank you.
[English]
Senator Martin: Thank you for your presentation. I was curious about the number of individuals we are looking at who would fall under this act. How many employees do we have in the Senate, both our employees and in senators’ offices? I was curious about the numbers and who would be impacted by this act.
Ms. Hurtubise-Loranger: Isabelle, I don’t know if you have the numbers with you. It will involve all of the Senate Administration staff and senators’ staff as well. Everyone is included under the definition of “employee” in PESRA, in the section about pay equity that was added for that purpose. I don’t have exact numbers in terms of the number of employees affected, but it will involve everyone.
Ms. Leduc: I think we have about 450 on the administration side, and probably between 300 and 400 for senators’ staff.
[Translation]
Senator Gagné: My question is for Ms. Hurtubise-Loranger. You may have said this in your presentation, but does CIBA ultimately make the final decision on the salary adjustment?
Ms. Hurtubise-Loranger: Yes. In principle, the committee should ultimately make the decision by consensus. This is set out in the legislation. On the committee, we have employer representatives and employee representatives. Ideally, the committee should reach a consensus on fair and equitable compensation.
If this isn’t possible, different mechanisms can be implemented. For example, you can turn to the Pay Equity Commissioner, who would act as a mediator, to try to find a solution that suits each party involved.
In addition, if the discussions fail, the employer may ultimately have the final say on the matter. In the case of the Senate, the employer, for Senate Administration employees and for senators’ employees, is CIBA.
Does this answer your question?
Senator Gagné: Yes, thank you.
[English]
The Chair: Are there any other questions, senators? I do not see anybody virtually. Thank you, Élise and Isabelle. I would request that you keep us up to date. This is a fairly significant piece of legislation and the ramifications are fairly significant, I suspect. Please keep us up to date on where things stand and how your progress is being made.
Ms. Hurtubise-Loranger: Absolutely, Mr. Chair.
The Chair: Thank you. Colleagues, next is Item 6 covering the Senate’s audited financial statements. As many of you will recall from our meeting on November 5, CIBA received a full presentation from our auditors from EY and the CFO on the financial statements. The statements were then approved unanimously by the committee.
Unfortunately, before CIBA was able to report the financial statements to the Senate, the report of the Selection Committee was adopted and new members were appointed to CIBA. Hence, the financial statements have been recirculated for the benefit of the new members, with the purpose of seeking their concurrence before we table this in the Senate. This is a courtesy to the new senators.
Are there any questions? If not, can I have a mover for the following motion:
That the 2019-2020 financial statements be tabled in the Senate.
Senator Dean moves the motion. Honourable senators, again we shall proceed with the roll call vote.
Ms. Legault: We will proceed in the same fashion as before.
The Honourable Senator Marwah?
Senator Marwah: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Carignan?
Senator Carignan: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Dawson?
Senator Dawson: For.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Dean?
Senator Dean: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Forest?
Senator Forest: For.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Forest-Niesing?
Senator Forest-Niesing: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Gagné?
Senator Gagné: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Jaffer?
Senator Jaffer: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Marshall?
Senator Marshall: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Martin?
Senator Martin: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Moncion?
Senator Moncion: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Munson?
Senator Munson: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Plett?
Senator Plett: For.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Seidman?
Senator Seidman: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Tannas?
Senator Tannas: Yes.
Ms. Legault: The Honourable Senator Woo?
Senator Woo: Yes.
Ms. Legault: Mr. Chair, we have 16 “yes” votes.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried.
Item 7 is “Other Matters,” colleagues. Are there any other matters that anyone wishes to raise before we go in camera? There is one item I did want to bring to your attention, which is Item 10 on your agenda. That’s the IT Roadmap. That will be discussed in the public portion of this meeting, and I just requested that the clerk send it out one week in advance. It’s a large document, and I wanted to give members enough time to read it. Otherwise, we will be stretched for time; two days is not enough. For any large document, we are trying to do it one week in advance to give senators more time to read the document. That will be discussed at our next meeting. Are there any other comments? Senators, we will go in camera. Thank you.
(The committee continued in camera.)