THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON INTERNAL ECONOMY, BUDGETS AND ADMINISTRATION
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Tuesday, March 16, 2021
The Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration met with videoconference this day at 10 a.m. [ET], pursuant to rule 12-7(1), in consideration of financial and administrative matters; and, in camera, pursuant to rule 12-7(1), in consideration of financial and administrative matters.
Senator Sabi Marwah (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Good morning. My name is Sabi Marwah, I’m a senator from Ontario and I have the privilege to chair the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration.
Today we will be conducting a hybrid meeting with some members participating virtually and others participating in person. The meeting will start in public and a portion of the meeting will then be in camera.
There are a few protocol items before we begin. Please keep your microphones muted at all times unless recognized by name to speak. Senators are responsible for turning their microphones on and off during the debate. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of English, French or no simultaneous translation. Should members want to request the floor, please use the raise hand feature if you are attending virtually, and advise the clerk if you are attending in person. Should any technical or other challenges arise, please signal this to the chair immediately and the technical team will work to resolve the issue.
I would now like to introduce the senators who are participating in this meeting: Senator Salma Ataullahjan, Ontario; Senator Larry Campbell, British Columbia; Senator Dennis Dawson, Quebec; Senator Tony Dean, Ontario; Senator Éric Forest, Quebec; Senator Josée Forest-Niesing, northern Ontario; Senator Raymonde Gagné, Manitoba; Senator Mobina Jaffer, British Columbia; Senator Elizabeth Marshall, Newfoundland and Labrador; Senator Yonah Martin, British Columbia; Senator Lucie Moncion, Ontario; Senator Jim Munson, Ontario; Senator Don Plett, Manitoba; Senator Raymonde Saint-Germain, Quebec; Senator Judith Seidman, Quebec; and Senator Scott Tannas, Alberta.
And welcome to all those viewing across the country.
Honourable senators, the first item is approval of the public minutes from February 11, 2021. Are there any questions or changes? Can I have a mover of the following motion:
That the Minutes of Proceedings of Thursday, February 11, 2021 be adopted.
Senator Dean: I so move.
The Chair: Senator Dean moves the motion. I would remind colleagues that votes will proceed in a similar fashion as the hybrid chamber, whereby senators who wish to oppose or abstain are provided an opportunity to do so. The absence of any opposition/abstention is interpreted as support for the motion. Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
If any senator wishes to oppose or abstain, please raise your hand. I see no objections; I declare the motion carried.
Colleagues, the next item is a report from the Subcommittee on the Senate Estimates concerning the adoption of the new travel credit card policy. Pierre Lanctôt, Chief Financial Officer, Finance and Procurement Directorate, and Nathalie Charpentier, Comptroller and Deputy Chief Financial Officer, will now join the video conference as witnesses.
As usual, the presentation will be followed by time for questions. It is my understanding that Senator Moncion will make opening remarks, and then Pierre and Nathalie will assist in answering questions. Senator Moncion, you may begin.
[Translation]
Hon. Lucie Moncion, Senator, Senate of Canada: Good morning, everyone. The Subcommittee on the Senate Estimates of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration (CIBA) has the honour to present its second report. Your subcommittee, which was authorized by the Standing Committee on Internal Economy and Administration to examine and report on financial matters, including Senate policies referred to it by the committee, received a proposal to adopt the creation of a Travel Credit Card Policy from the current Corporate Credit Card Policy.
As a part of the Senate Policy Suite Renewal, the current Corporate Credit Card Policy was reviewed by the Finance and Procurement Directorate. It was decided that the Corporate Credit Card Policy be separated into two distinct policies — the Travel Credit Card Policy and the Acquisition Card Policy — because each type of card has specific users and purposes. The Travel Credit Card Policy provides a framework for the use of travel credit cards to allow for a more convenient method to cover travel expenses, when it is efficient, economical and operationally feasible to do so.
Your subcommittee notes that there are no major policy changes included in the Travel Credit Card Policy, since the content of the policy was mostly taken from the Corporate Credit Card Policy. In addition, the Finance and Procurement Directorate, when writing this policy, has consulted the House of Commons and the current Treasury Board’s Directive on Travel Cards and Travellers Cheques, and the content is aligned with the practice in outside organizations.
In addition, this new policy has no impact on the current authorized travel credit cardholders. After careful review of the proposed changes, your subcommittee recommends that the updated Travel Credit Card Policy be approved, and that the policy takes effect on April 1, 2021. It is respectfully submitted by myself. I would invite Pierre Lanctôt to give you some details on the policy.
[English]
Pierre Lanctôt, Chief Financial Officer, Finance and Procurement Directorate, Senate of Canada: Good morning, senators. It is important to note that this travel policy does not apply to senators. The provisions for senators are included in some, which is consistent with the approach to have consolidated reference documents for all practices with respect to senators.
The principles used to elaborate the policy are based on the following principles: sound financial management; quality of service; risk management; and efficiency of the operations. As Senator Moncion mentioned, there are limited changes to the policy, so, therefore, we don’t see any major impact on the current holders.
There are currently 101 cardholders at the Senate and 16 employees of the administration who are using travel credit cards and will be subject to this policy.
[Translation]
It is important to note that the travel credit card can only be used for purchases in connection with official travel. No office purchase is permitted for internal control reasons and to comply with administrative policies and internal processes.
In conclusion, this policy is to come into force on April 1, 2021, subject to CIBA’s approval, naturally. This concludes my comments. Thank you.
[English]
The Chair: Colleagues, do you have any questions for Pierre or Senator Moncion? I see no questions, so it is moved by the Honourable Senator Moncion:
That the second report of the Subcommittee on Senate Estimates be adopted.
Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion? If any senator wishes to oppose or abstain, please raise your hand. I see no objections. I declare the motion carried.
The next item is a report from the Subcommittee on the Senate Estimates concerning the adoption of the new acquisition credit card policy. Martine Bergeron, Manager of Procurement, Finance and Procurement Directorate, will now join the video conversation as a witness, and Pierre Lanctôt will also assist with this item. As usual, you will have questions at the end.
It is my understanding that Senator Moncion will make opening remarks, and Pierre and Martine will assist in answering questions.
[Translation]
Senator Moncion: The Subcommittee on the Senate Estimates of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration (CIBA) has the honour to present its third report. Your subcommittee, which was authorized by the Standing Committee on Internal Economy and Administration to examine and report on financial matters, including Senate policies referred to it by the committee, received a request to approve the creation of the Acquisition Card Policy from the current Corporate Credit Card Policy.
As a part of the Senate Policy Suite Renewal, the current Corporate Credit Card Policy was reviewed by the Finance and Procurement Directorate. It was decided that the Corporate Credit Card Policy be separated into two distinct policies — the Travel Credit Card Policy and the Acquisition Card Policy — because each type of card has specific uses and purposes. The Acquisition Card Policy provides a framework for the use of acquisition cards to allow for a more convenient method to cover acquisition card expenses, when it is efficient, economical and operationally feasible to do so. It outlines the roles and responsibilities for administering and using acquisition cards and establishes a consistent approach that ensures effective financial controls.
Your subcommittee notes that there are no major policy changes included in the Acquisition Card Policy, since the content of the policy was mostly taken from the Corporate Credit Card Policy. In addition, the Finance and Procurement Directorate, when writing this policy, has consulted the House of Commons, the National Capital Commission and the PSPC Directive on Acquisition Card Purchases, and the content is aligned with the practice in outside organizations.
Finally, this new policy has no impact on the current authorized acquisition cardholders.
A summary of the driver, key changes, benefits and impacted groups pertaining to this policy can be found in the appendix. After careful review of the new policy, your subcommittee recommends that the new Acquisition Card Policy be approved, and that the policy comes into force on April 1, 2021. It is respectfully submitted by myself.
I would invite Pierre Lanctôt to give you a summary of the changes.
Mr. Lanctôt: Thank you, Senator Moncion. Procurement cards are a convenient, low-risk method of making low-dollar value purchases when it is efficient, cost-effective and feasible to do so. The Senate currently has 41 acquisition cards spread out across seven directorates. For the fiscal year 2020-21, purchases totalling $190,000 were made using these cards, the majority of which, 97% or $177,000, were made by the procurement team. So only $14,000 in purchases was made by the various directorates, mostly for gasoline and training.
Senators’ offices do not currently use acquisition cards.
[English]
The guiding principles followed in establishing the policy are similar to those of the travel credit card: financial accountability, sound financial management operations, efficiency, risk management and service quality.
This concludes my comments. I welcome any questions.
The Chair: Colleagues, are there any questions for Pierre or Martine?
[Translation]
Senator Forest-Niesing: My first question has to do with the more technical aspect of the loyalty program. I note that in the Travel Credit Card Policy, it is possible to join a loyalty program, whereas it is not allowed in the second policy. I would like to know the reasoning behind this decision.
My second question is more about the application of this policy. I see that acquisition cards are still limited to the seven directorates, and I am wondering, because of its effectiveness, has it been considered for senators’ offices, where it would be a very effective way to make certain purchases under the policy?
Mr. Lanctôt: Thank you, Madam Senator. With regard to the loyalty program, for procurement cards or acquisition cards, in very few cases we use loyalty programs. That is somewhat against the principle of having acquisition cards. We want the benefits to accrue to the entity, if at all. When we negotiate contracts, we usually try to have corporate benefits rather than loyalty programs.
With respect to the travel card, we have kept the same approach that existed previously in the Senators Office Management Policy. So loyalty programs are permitted for harmonization purposes, to have two types of programs; that is the goal. They are rarely used because users have to pay additional fees to be members. People travel very little and do not use loyalty programs because, in the end, there is no cost-effectiveness in using them. I hope that answers your first question, Madam Senator.
In terms of the application, we discussed at CIBA about a year ago the possibility of using procurement cards or acquisition cards for senators’ offices. At that time, we made the decision to wait to update the policy and possibly review its application. It is not necessarily feasible, but eventually, if there is a demand, we will consider that possibility.
[English]
The Chair: Are there any other questions, colleagues? If not, it is moved by the Honourable Senator Moncion:
That the third report of the Subcommittee on the Senate Estimates be adopted.
Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
If any senator wishes to abstain please or object, please raise your hand. Seeing no objections, I declare the motion carried.
Moving on to Item 4, it is my honour to table the sixth report of the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure concerning two decisions made by steering on behalf of CIBA since the last meeting in early February. This report is for your information. Are there any questions or comments, colleagues? I see no questions, so I will move on to Item 5.
Item 5 is a request from the Joint Interparliamentary Council concerning the forty-seventh annual session of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie to be held in Montreal in July 2022. Francis Drouin, Member of Parliament, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, Ontario and Jeremy LeBlanc, Acting Clerk Assistant and Director General, International and Interparliamentary Affairs will now join the meeting by video conference as witnesses.
Welcome back, gentlemen. You may begin your presentation.
[Translation]
Francis Drouin, M.P., Glengarry—Prescott—Russell: Mr. Chair, honourable senators, as president of the Canadian branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie (APF), I would like to thank you for receiving our request to add the organization of the Parlement francophone des jeunes to the annual session of the APF, which is scheduled to take place in Montreal in July 2022. I assure you that it is not my intention to come back here every quarter, but we were not aware when I last appeared before you that the Parlement francophone des jeunes would be here, in Montreal.
The reasons for holding the event and the reasons for the additional request are outlined in the memo accompanying the letter sent to you on February 12. We all want to raise awareness of parliamentary action among young people, and approval of this request would help to do so.
Finally, it will be our pleasure to invite you, when the time comes, to take part in this major francophone event so that you can see the full vitality of the Canadian francophonie. I will be pleased to answer your questions. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
[English]
Senator Jaffer: Thank you for your presentation. I have a few questions. When any delegation goes abroad — obviously, we have fewer parliamentarians participating in this one. How many parliamentarians will be participating? I will ask my follow-up question now about the youth. Are you going to encourage youth from across the country, for example, from my province, to also participate?
Mr. Drouin: Thank you, senator, for your question. We expect over 400 parliamentarians from across member nations, so members of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie, to attend. With regard to the Parlement francophone des jeunes, yes, we always have youth from Canada and from various provinces attend as well. Obviously, because of geography, we would expect a level of participation that may be greater when it happens in other countries.
Senator Jaffer: I have a follow-up question. I didn’t understand; I apologize. How many MPs will participate from Canada this time? Normally there are not as many because it’s overseas, but I understand that for the Commonwealth and others, for example, there was a greater number when it was at home.
Mr. Drouin: Thank you for that question. Normally we would have a delegation of around 10 MPs when it’s overseas. It’s hard to say how many MPs would like to attend, but we would obviously extend that invitation to the members who are part of the association to attend because of, as you say, geography. They are closer, so there may be an opportunity for them to attend.
Senator Jaffer: I would like clarification about the youth. You said they are from across the country, but how many? Is there a specific number from each province? How will you divide that up?
Mr. Drouin: That’s up to the PFJ, the Parlement francophone des jeunes. It’s across the world, so it’s hard to determine an exact number, but perhaps someone else wants to jump in and determine the exact number of youths who would participate.
Jeremy LeBlanc, Acting Clerk Assistant and Director General, International and Interparliamentary Affairs: If I may, the planning we have done would allow for 60 youth to participate, which is the typical number, and it would have two youths representing each of the 30 sections who are members of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie. It is true that the Parliament of Canada is a section, but there are also a number of provinces that have their own sections and would be entitled to send two youths from the member provinces that are part of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie.
Senator Marshall: Thank you for being here this morning. For the $100,000 we’re talking about this morning, $55,000 is for hospitality and excursions, which is over half of the temporary funding. Could you speak to that? Also, in the amended cost for the annual session, there is $431,000 for protocol, ceremonial and hospitality. Both of those amounts are significant in relation to the overall funding. Could you speak to exactly what that is? When you do these budgets, does someone challenge those amounts?
Mr. LeBlanc: I might be best placed to answer that. For the $100,000 being requested for the Parlement francophone des jeunes, it’s essentially the cost of feeding the delegates that is reflected there. That $56,000 or so is essentially the cost of food for the 60 youths over seven days. Similarly, that amount showing under the protocol hospitality section in the main budget is also largely the cost of food. There are some receptions, but there are also working lunches and coffee break-type foods, breakfasts and dinners.
Senator Marshall: I would suggest that you amend those descriptions, because it certainly gives the wrong impression. Thank you.
The Chair: Honourable senators, are there any other questions? I see no other hands up, so it is moved by the Honourable Senator Plett:
That approval be granted to include the Parlement francophone des Jeunes (PFJ) in the 47th Annual Session of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie in Montreal, in July 2022;
That a maximum of $100,000 of temporary funding be provided for the organization of the PFJ;
That this amount be funded by the anticipated budget surpluses of Parliamentary Associations for the 2022-2023 fiscal year; and
That the funding be shared using the usual formula (30% Senate, 70% House of Commons) between the Senate ($30,000) and the House of Commons ($70,000).
If any senator wishes to oppose or abstain, please raise your hand. I see no objections, so I declare the motion carried.
Honourable senators, is there any other public business before we go in camera? We will take a two-minute break as we go in camera. Thank you all.
(The committee continued in camera.)