THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL FINANCE
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Tuesday, June 8, 2021
The Standing Senate Committee on National Finance met by videoconference this day at 9:30 a.m. [ET] to give consideration to Supplementary Estimates (A) for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2022; and Bill S-222, An Act to amend the Income Tax Act (use of resources).
Senator Percy Mockler (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Honourable senators, welcome to this meeting of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance. Before we begin, I would like to remind senators and witnesses to please keep your microphones muted at all times, unless recognized by name by the chair.
[Translation]
Should any technical challenges arise, particularly in relation to interpretation, please signal this to the chair or the clerk and we’ll work to resolve the issue. If you experience other technical challenges, please contact the ISD Service Desk with the technical assistance number provided.
[English]
The use of online platforms does not guarantee speech privacy or that eavesdropping won’t be conducted. As such, while conducting committee meetings, all participants should be aware of such limitations and restrict the possible disclosure of sensitive, private and privileged Senate information. Participants should know to do so in a private area and to be mindful of their surroundings.
[Translation]
We’ll now begin with the official portion of our meeting as per our order of reference received by the Senate of Canada.
[English]
My name is Percy Mockler. I have the honour of chairing the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance. I would now like to introduce the members of the committee who are participating in this meeting: Senator Dagenais, Senator Deacon (Ontario), Senator Duncan, Senator Forest, Senator Klyne, Senator Loffreda, Senator Marshall, Senator Moncion, Senator Pate, Senator Richards and Senator Smith.
We also welcome Canadians who are watching on sencanada.ca.
This morning, we continue our study of the Supplementary Estimates (A) for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2022, which was referred to this committee on May 27, 2021, by the Senate of Canada.
The first department is Indigenous Services Canada, or ISC. We welcome Philippe Thompson, Chief Finances, Results and Delivery Officer. He is accompanied by Keith Conn, Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, First Nations and Inuit Health Branch; Kelley Blanchette, Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Economic Development; David Peckham, Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs Sector and Partnerships Sector; Gail Mitchell, Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy and Partnerships Sector; and Danielle White, Special Advisor, Regional Operations Sector. From Public Health Agency of Canada, we welcome Martin Krumins, Vice-President and Chief Financial Officer. He is accompanied by Dr. Howard Njoo, Deputy Chief Public Health Officer and Vice-President, Infectious Disease and Prevention and Control Branch; Brigitte Diogo, Vice-President, Health Sciences and Regional Operations; Brigadier-General Krista Brodie, Vice-President, Logistics and Operations; Cindy Evans, Acting Vice-President, Emergency Management; and Candice St-Aubin, Vice-President, Health Promotion and Chronic Disease Prevention Branch.
Welcome to all of you. Thank you for accepting our invitation to appear in front of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance. We will hear your opening remarks, comments made first by Mr. Krumins, to be followed by Mr. Thompson.
Martin Krumins, Vice-President and Chief Financial Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada:
Honourable senators, thank you for the opportunity to present to you the Public Health Agency of Canada’s Supplementary Estimates (A) for 2021-22, as the agency continues to play a crucial role in the Government of Canada’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic.
These Supplementary Estimates (A) reflect a continuity of COVID-19-related operations and seek to increase the agency’s voted spending authorities by $4.4 billion to a total of $13.2 billion. This increase consists of $3.9 billion in operating, $74.9 million in capital and $417.6 million in grants and contributions, and is principally attributed to the agency’s response to COVID-19.
The majority of this increase, $3.4 billion, consists of reprofiling unspent COVID-19 funds from the last fiscal year to match expected payments in the current fiscal year. This includes the reprofiling for vaccines, medical countermeasures, procurement of testing technologies, Safe Restart, borders and travel measures and various other initiatives. The agency is also seeking $946.7 million of new funding, including Budget 2021 items such as strengthening border health and quarantine measures and improving the quality and accessibility of pan-Indigenous early learning and child care.
I will take the next few minutes to highlight the key items of these Supplementary Estimates (A). First, the agency is seeking to reprofile $1.5 billion to fund medical research and vaccine developments. This funding is part of the initial $9.2 billion investment that we previously sought in Supplementary Estimates (B) of the previous fiscal year. Combined with the $5 billion approved through the 2021-22 Main Estimates, the agency has a total of $6.5 billion available for this year to continue procuring vaccines and therapeutics to contribute to the international COVID-19 response.
Throughout the pandemic, the Government of Canada has introduced a series of border measures. To support these measures, the agency is seeking funding of $1.1 billion, including new funding of $894.5 million announced in Budget 2021 and $164.1 million in reprofiles from the last fiscal year. This funding will also support municipal and urban safe voluntary isolation sites and testing at land and air borders. The agency is also seeking a reprofile of $556 million to support the procurement of therapeutics, primary packaging, logistic support, vaccine equipment and vaccine deployment as part of the vaccination campaign.
Testing continues to be a critical part of the agency’s response to the pandemic. As a result, the agency is requesting a reprofile of $483.6 million to support innovative research and procurement of testing technologies related to the pandemic. This reprofile will mainly support procuring test supplies, such as devices, test kits, consumables, testing production and continuing waste water surveillance. This funding will also support procurement of point-of-care tests for Northern, remote and Indigenous communities, as well as procurement of rapid antigen tests to support provinces and territories.
In addition to the above-mentioned initiatives, the agency is requesting a number of other reprofiles to continue and sustain the work started last year to support various important COVID-19 initiatives such as Safe Restart, serosurveillance consortium, pre-clinical and medical countermeasures and mental health initiatives such as Kids’ Help Phone.
These estimates also include items that are not related to COVID-19. Most notably, the agency is seeking new funding of $3 million to improve the quality and accessibility of pan-Indigenous early learning and child care programming provided through the Aboriginal Head Start in Urban and Northern Communities program. Building on the previously established 2017 Indigenous Early Learning and Child Care Framework, the agency is seeking investments to improve the quality and accessibility through contributions and operational funding to address operational pressures associated with staff retention, special needs and program purchases and to support horizontal administration and Indigenous partnership support.
To conclude, as the COVID-19 situation continues to evolve, the agency will continue to strategically utilize its resources to focus on ensuring appropriate measures remain in place to combat the virus and help Canadians return to a more normal life. Before finishing, I would like to once again thank the devoted employees and personnel at the agency who have worked tirelessly for so many months to help their fellow Canadians in these very difficult times. Thank you for this opportunity to speak about our work. My colleagues and I will be pleased to answer questions you may have. Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Krumins.
[Translation]
Philippe Thompson, Chief Finances, Results and Delivery Officer, Indigenous Services Canada: Thank you, Mr. Chair and honourable senators, for the invitation to discuss the 2021-22 Supplementary Estimates (A) for Indigenous Services Canada, or ISC. I would also like to acknowledge that Canada’s Parliament is located on unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin people.
I’m joined by Keith Conn, Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, First Nations and Inuit Health Branch; Kelley Blanchette, Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Economic Development; Gail Mitchell, Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy and Partnerships Sector; David Peckham, Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships; and Danielle White, Special Advisor, Regional Operations Sector.
[English]
Before going any further, I would like to take a moment to honour the children who were recently found in an unmarked gravesite at the Kamloops Indian Residential School. These children, and all the other lost children, will not be forgotten. We will carry their stories forward as we continue to walk the path of reconciliation with First Nation, Inuit and Métis people. We are working with the community and our partners, such as the B.C. First Nations Health Authority, to provide the resources and support needed as determined by the community.
For immediate assistance to those who may need it, the National Indian Residential School Crisis Line is available 24 hours a day at 1-866-925-4419.
[Translation]
I would like to take a brief moment to provide you with an update on the status of the COVID-19 pandemic activity in Indigenous communities.
Despite a decrease in the rate in the pandemic’s progression, as of June 4, there are still 835 active cases of COVID-19 for a total of 30,158 confirmed cases. There have been 28,977 recoveries and, unfortunately, 346 deaths. Vaccination is well under way: 70.5% of adults aged 18 and over have received at least one dose, and of those people, 38.6% have received a second dose.
Since the beginning of the pandemic, the department, in partnership with First Nations communities, has deployed nurses and paramedics; facilitated the air transportation of health human resources; collected samples for testing; answered calls and online chats; and supported surge health infrastructure needs. We have also helped Inuit and Métis partners, along with urban Indigenous organizations, to provide funds that contributed to their pandemic response.
The department continues to work closely with the Public Health Agency of Canada, other Government of Canada departments, provincial and territorial governments, and Indigenous partners to protect the health and safety of Indigenous peoples.
[English]
I will now turn to the topic of today’s meeting, the presentation of ISC’s Supplementary Estimates (A), 2021-22.
To continue responding to the pandemic and support ongoing work, ISC’s 2021-22 Supplementary Estimates (A) are showing a net increase of $5.4 billion, which will bring the total authorities for 2021-22 to over $18.9 billion.
The $5.4 billion is composed of: $1.4 billion in Vote 1 operating expenditures, $31.1 million in Vote 5 capital and $4 billion in Vote 10 grants and contributions.
Of the $5.4 billion, $2.1 billion is dedicated to COVID-19 response in Indigenous communities: $760.7 million additional funding for the Indigenous Community Support Fund; $620.2 million for the continuation of public health responses; $332.8 million for Indigenous communities affected by disruptions to their revenues which are necessary to support their programs and services; $186.5 million to support Indigenous businesses; $138.3 million in funding so children on reserve can continue to attend school safely — this funding will also enable Indigenous education institutions to respond to learning needs; $75.3 million to support Indigenous post-secondary students; and $18.7 million to improve ventilation in public buildings.
The remaining $3.3 billion are key initiatives for 2021-22, of which the major ones are: $1.2 billion of out-of-court settlements to help advance Canada’s overall commitment to reconciliation by paving the way for a more respectful and constructive relationship with Indigenous people; $1.1 billion to support the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal, or CHRT, orders implementation and resolve a non-compliance motion; $520.5 million to support Indigenous community infrastructure asset requirements and operations and maintenance costs in order to reduce long-standing infrastructure gaps; and $194.4 million to help address the mental wellness needs of First Nation and Inuit populations.
[Translation]
Rest assured that the department will keep making all the necessary efforts to help counteract the impact of COVID-19 on Indigenous people's lives while continuing the engagement and work undertaken before the pandemic, to advance its mandate.
I look forward to discussing any aspects of Supplementary Estimates (A) with you. We welcome your questions regarding this presentation. Thank you.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Thompson, for your statements.
We will now proceed to questions. I would like to share with the senators that, for this meeting, you will have a maximum of seven minutes each for the first round. Therefore, please ask your questions directly. To the witnesses, please respond concisely. The clerk will make a hand signal to show when your time is over.
Senator Marshall, the floor is yours.
Senator Marshall: Thank you to the witnesses for being here. My first question is for Indigenous Services Canada, Mr. Thompson or Mr. Conn. I was interested in the funding for First Nations Child and Family Services.
There is $1 billion there under Budgetary, Voted Appropriations. When I look under contributions, I would assume that is the breakdown of the $1 billion. There are $565 million and $484 million. I was interested in those numbers. I was particularly interested in whether this is the funding related to the act that was passed last year respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and families?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for the question. Mr. Chair, the funding that is currently in the Supplementary Estimates (A) is for two main reasons. It’s for the CHRT order implementation. There are $488.3 million for CHRT order implementation. The remaining of the funding that you see in the $1.1 billion is $575.7 million for settlement of non-compliance motions. This funding is really focused on the delivery of those elements of the program. We are still in the process of implementing the legislation, but there is no funding associated in the supplementary estimates for the implementation of Bill C-92. This funding was included in our main estimates.
Senator Marshall: When I look under Contributions, the two amounts there, the $565 million and the $484 million, is that a new program? Because there are no Estimates to Date.
Mr. Thompson: The component for the non-compliance motion, this is to support the communities that are not supported by agencies, to provide prevention services. This is a component under the CJWI component, although we are still funding prevention services for the remainder of the program. That’s why you see that standing out.
Senator Marshall: Who are the service providers?
Mr. Thompson: It would be the communities.
Senator Marshall: And they apply for funding?
Mr. Thompson: The funding is transferred based on a formula.
Senator Marshall: So there is no application. Is that funding used to keep families together and to prevent children from coming into care?
Mr. Thompson: Yes. The non-compliance motion is really focused on prevention services. So the program is divided in two main components. There are protection services where the children are taken into care, and there are prevention services, so all the work that is done up front to prevent kids from going into care. This is really to focus on the prevention component of the program.
Senator Marshall: The last time we discussed this issue at Finance Committee, I was told there were 9,000 children in care. Would you have the numbers? Are the numbers coming down? How many children would there be in care now? Because that’s the objective of the program, to support families and prevent children from being removed from their families? So how many children would be in care now?
Mr. Thompson: Unfortunately, I don’t have that exact number with me, but this is something that we should be able to get from the program to provide that to you.
Senator Marshall: Yes. Could you send that to the clerk? Thank you. Would that information be provided in your departmental results reports? Would I be able to find that there?
Mr. Thompson: The number of children in care?
Senator Marshall: Yes. That would be a performance indicator.
Mr. Thompson: That is a very good question. I don’t have the performance indicators in front of me for the program, but I can find that out.
Senator Marshall: If you could send that to the clerk, that would be great. You provided the information last time.
I’m going to move on to the Public Health Agency of Canada. The Auditor General released a report on the Public Health Agency about a month ago. I do have a question there that came from that report, and that’s regarding the Global Public Health Intelligence Network. She had indicated there were some problems found with that early warning system for health threats.
In September, the minister announced a review of the system. And it was supposed to be finished in the spring of this year.
My question is this: Is the review done and can we get a copy?
Cindy Evans, Acting Vice-President, Emergency Management, Public Health Agency of Canada: I would like to reiterate that yes, there was both attention to the Global Public Health Intelligence Network in the review of the Office of the Auditor General, and as well the Minister of Health requested an independent expert panel to look at that. So the report from the independent panel will be put into the public domain. We expect that will happen in June, in the next few weeks. Thank you.
Senator Marshall: The report is finalized and you have the report, is that correct?
Ms. Evans: The minister has received the final report. It will be put into the public domain, yes, that’s correct.
Senator Marshall: Was the review carried out by an independent group or an independent person or was it carried out internally within the agency or the Department of Health?
Ms. Evans: Thank you for the question. This was an independent review that was carried out by an independent panel. The three panel members of that review were Margaret Bloodworth, Dr. Paul Gully and Dr. Mylaine Breton.
Senator Marshall: I’ll wait until second round. I have a question about the computer systems within the Public Health Agency if no one else asks the question. Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you, senator.
[Translation]
Senator Forest: I want to thank the witnesses for joining us this morning.
My first question is about child care and is probably for Mr. Thompson.
The main measure in the latest budget is the establishment of a Canada-wide early learning and child care system. I’m trying to understand how the child care service is currently working for First Nations, and how it will work in the future. Do Indigenous communities receive federal funding to support child care or early childhood education — which I think is an essential issue?
What’s the plan for child care in Indigenous communities? How does the child care system work in Quebec? Is there a federal contribution for spaces filled by Indigenous people? Have Indigenous communities been consulted with regard to this initiative?
I want to know about the operation of this program, which could be very good, and about how the program is adapted to the Indigenous reality.
Mr. Thompson: Thank you for the question.
Mr. Chair, two items in the supplementary estimates directly address the issue raised by Senator Forest.
The 2021-22 Supplementary Estimates (A) include $67 million for before and after school care. This is part of the child care strategy announced in the 2021 budget. There’s $67 million for this exact measure.
Also, $35.1 million is allocated to the Aboriginal Head Start Program on reserves, so these amounts are also distributed in the context of child care services. Obviously, the work is done with the Indigenous communities in terms of the implementation of the program. There are already child care services available. Unfortunately, our assistant deputy minister responsible for education services wasn’t able to join us this morning to provide any additional details.
However, the department is working closely with Employment and Social Development Canada to implement the national program and the whole Indigenous component. Indigenous Services Canada’s role is to work closely with communities to ensure that the program is adapted to the needs and realities of Indigenous culture and that Indigenous components and frameworks are taken into consideration so that child care services meet the cultural needs of communities.
Senator Forest: The communities have been closely involved with the development of the program and are managing the $67 million included in the budget.
Mr. Thompson: Yes. The funding will be transferred to them. All program development is done with the communities. We want to make sure that we respect and meet the specific needs of each Indigenous community. The program is based on the distinction.
Senator Forest: It’s a breath of fresh air after what we learned last week about residential schools. I sincerely hope that this program aligns with Indigenous culture.
My second question is about the COVID-19 medical research and vaccine development fund and is for the Public Health Agency of Canada.
Regarding the $467.6 million for vaccines, Supplementary Estimates (A) state as follows on page 5:
This funding will support the timely acquisition and deployment of COVID-19 vaccines as well as effective therapeutic treatments for those with COVID-19.
Yet the paragraph is entitled “Funding for medical research and vaccine developments (COVID-19).” This brings to mind the oft-repeated criticism that it’s difficult to take into account invoices for vaccine purchases.
Is the $467.6 million for vaccine purchases or partly for new vaccine development?
[English]
Mr. Krumins: Thank you very much for your question, honourable senator. The item that I have before me in the supplementary estimates relating to medical research and vaccine developments is a horizontal item and we are seeking $1.46 billion. This is a reprofile of funding from the previous fiscal year.
There is an item which is a reprofile for funding of medical research and vaccine development for $1.5 billion. We can break that down into three items. One is a reprofile for vaccine acquisitions themselves, and that is for $1.24 billion. There is an item for therapeutics, which is a reprofile of $85 million from the previous fiscal year. As well, there is a reprofiling of $130 million for international partnerships. This would be for the acquisition of vaccines through COVAX should we choose to exercise those options.
I would say that all this is a continuation of the previously announced $9.2 billion which we broke down at previous appearances and is not new funding.
[Translation]
Senator Forest: Can you briefly talk about the COVAX program? The program involves taking on an international challenge in a comprehensive manner. In order to participate, the plan was to collect some vaccines from the stockpile.
Can you provide an update on the status of the COVAX program, on how Canada will participate, and on how much money will be involved?
[English]
Mr. Krumins: Thank you for your question, honourable senator. In terms of the amount that is set aside for this, with respect to COVAX, we set aside a total amount of $220 million for access to acquisition of vaccines. With respect to future plans in terms of our drawdown on this, I would turn to my colleague, Brigadier-General Krista Brodie.
Brigadier-General Krista Brodie, Vice-President, Logistics and Operations, Public Health Agency of Canada: So at this point in time, we’re working closely with our federal government partners to determine the way ahead with respect to the allocations that fall under the COVAX umbrella. At this point in time, I am not in a position to speak to detail with respect to where that sits.
The Chair: Mr. Krumins and Mr. Thompson, as per an agreement we’ve had in the past, you’ve mentioned to Senator Marshall that you would provide some additional information in writing. We have a time frame for our report. Can we agree that you could send that information to both departments on or before June 11?
Mr. Krumins: From the Public Health Agency of Canada, that seems reasonable.
Mr. Thompson: Yes, that works for us.
The Chair: Thank you.
I will now recognize Senator Klyne.
Senator Klyne: Welcome to our panel of guests this morning.
My first question is for Indigenous Services Canada. I want to go back to some of the questioning that Senator Marshall had opened up.
On page 35 of the Supplementary Estimates (A) document, we see that in Vote 1a, the Department of Indigenous Services has presented $1.2 billion for out-of-court settlements related to various legal challenges. The line item states:
This funding will ensure that the Government can respond expeditiously to commitments stemming from newly signed out-of-court settlements, should they be reached.
Can you provide the committee with more insight into what these out-of-court settlements are about, how it is decided which cases to deal with on an out-of-court settlement basis and how the amounts to pay out are determined?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for the question. We are in active discussions right now related to various legal challenges. The resources that you see in those supplementary estimates are there to ensure that if a settlement were to be resolved, we would have access to the required funding to expedite payments. Unfortunately, the discussions are ongoing, and at this moment I’m not in a position to discuss these settlements due to litigation confidentiality. I’m sorry that I can’t provide additional details on the nature of the settlements and the discussions that are currently taking place.
Senator Klyne: I’m not looking for details. I’m asking how it is decided which cases to deal with on an out-of-court settlement basis. Are you dealing with all of them or do you prioritize? How are the amounts to pay out determined?
Mr. Thompson: Multiple negotiations are taking place right now and some are more advanced than others. Based on the advice we are getting from the litigators, we are securing funding because we are confident that the negotiations on some discussions are progressing quickly enough so that we can expect to be in a position to issue payments.
Senator Klyne: I understand, and I’m not asking for details on that. I just want to know this: Is it the court that says you will deal with these or do you select which ones you’re going to deal with and put them forward as an out-of-court settlement approach?
Mr. Thompson: The government has expressed its desire to resolve the different negotiations that are in place in a negotiated way. Different negotiations are taking place. We are trying to resolve those situations for all the files.
Senator Klyne: Okay, it’s all the files.
Many supply and estimate bills brought before this committee include items to cover out-of-court settlements with Indigenous nations. Since these expenses appear to be persistent, has the government considered a more transparent and cost-effective method, such as a tribunal, for resolving these cases? How can Canadians find out more details about how these funds are being spent if it is all out-of-court?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you for the question. Of course, the issues are brought forward in court and then there’s a decision from both parties that there may be a way to achieve a negotiated settlement on these issues. If we can’t achieve a settlement, the court will rule and make the decision. However, the intent is always to find a negotiated settlement, a compromise and an agreement. For every case that we have, we always hope we are able to achieve a negotiated settlement. Unfortunately, sometimes the court will make the decision.
Senator Klyne: If we followed the treaty as a guide, we probably wouldn’t end up here with many of these things and some of the acts would already be passed.
The next question is for either Indigenous Services Canada or the Public Health Agency. Early learning and child care are essential to all Canadians to position them for success later in life when it comes to excelling in the skills training and education required to participate in the new economy. I see that the Department of Employment and Social Development, the Department of Indigenous Services and the Public Health Agency are collectively spending $915 million for early learning and child care funding to the provinces and territories to support existing programs that help them to attract and retain educators.
The funding appears to support attracting early childhood educators. Can you tell this committee if there are any plans to use the funds to support training and recruitment of First Nations, Métis and Inuit educators in this regard?
Mr. Thompson: I will ask my colleague Keith Conn to provide details on the program for early learning and child care.
Keith Conn, Acting Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, First Nations and Inuit Health Branch, Indigenous Services Canada: Thank you, senator, for the question. The short answer is yes. Work is under way with all the First Nations, Inuit and Métis partners, in collaboration with Employment and Social Development Canada, to examine ways to enhance the recruitment, retention and training of early childhood workers to support the program implementation and the expansion of early learning and childhood development. In Budget 2021, we announced funding of $2.5 billion over the next five years. That is a component of that new investment, senator.
Senator Klyne: So the short answer is yes.
Senator Richards: Senator Klyne asked my first question, but I’ll kind of ask it again.
How will the pan-Indigenous early learning be spread across the entire country? For instance, do you know how much of this will go to the Maritimes and how much will go to Quebec? What models of learning are you using? Are these children being taught in their own language, like Mi’kmaq or Passamaquoddy or Huron, or are they taught in English or French? Is there a kind of universal way to teach preschoolers that will be implemented or will there be new ways to try to develop Indigenous children? That’s my first question.
Mr. Conn: Thank you, senator, for the question. In terms of the Aboriginal Head Start on Reserve and the Aboriginal Head Start in Urban and Northern Communities, absolutely; the language and culture are critical components of the early learning of children in the Head Start programs, as well as health promotion, parental involvement and so forth. These are critical aspects.
In terms of the financial details of allocations across nations, we’d have to get back to the committee.
Senator Richards: I’ll go to my second question, and perhaps this is for Mr. Thompson.
It says $75 million for post-secondary education. Is that for tuition? Is that for kids who have graduated from high school to pay tuition for university? If that’s true, is that handled by the band council on the reserves or by the government? How does that filter down to the individual students?
I’m interested in this because for a number of years I’ve mentored Indigenous students, and I would like to see many more of them in post-secondary education. Could you perhaps give me a heads-up on how that money is being used? Are the band councils accountable for how it is used?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for the question. With regard to the $75.3 million to support students and youth, this is directly related to the COVID response. As you know, many Indigenous post-secondary students are facing financial difficulties during the pandemic because they have lost their jobs or they have been impacted by the pandemic.
So this will help offset the loss of income for those students. In this case, we’re talking about post-secondary students.
This is the first year of a two-year profile. The total profile is $150.6 million for the two years. It’s distributed among the three distinction bases: There is $65.5 million for First Nations, $7.2 million for Métis peoples and $2.5 million for Inuit.
For the second portion of your question, the funding will be allocated regionally and it will be administered through contribution agreements, with program funding decisions for individual students continuing to be the responsibility of the First Nations.
Senator Richards: That’s good. So the $75 million is not for university application? I misread it; I thought it was for post-secondary students going through to university, but that’s not what it’s allotted for.
Mr. Thompson: It’s really to offset the loss of revenue for kids going to university, so they can use it for tuition if they need so.
Senator Richards: So they can use it for tuition if they so choose.
Mr. Thompson: Absolutely.
Senator Loffreda: Thank you to all our witnesses for being here this morning.
My question is for the Public Health Agency of Canada. There is an amount of approximately $28 million dedicated to funding medical countermeasure capacity for COVID-19 and future infectious disease outbreaks. It’s not the amount as much as what’s behind it. While this current pandemic is not quite done, we do see the light at the end of the tunnel. However, my biggest concern on this issue is the possibility of another global pandemic — hopefully not — related or not to COVID and how well-prepared Canada will be to combat it.
I note in your departmental plan that the Public Health Agency of Canada will continue to invest in its emergency management operations and in the development of sustainable support structures to enable a scalable, timely and coordinated response to future emergency events with health consequences.
I would like you to provide us with further information — or what robust mechanism is being developed at the agency to capture lessons learned and implement corrective actions to address areas requiring improvement?
Mr. Krumins: Senator, thank you for your question.
Moving forward in terms of the epidemiology, I would ask my colleague Dr. Howard Njoo to describe the projection of the pandemic. Also, my colleague Cindy Evans may also want to speak to lessons learned in terms of emergency response.
Dr. Howard Njoo, Deputy Chief Public Health Officer and Vice-President, Infectious Disease and Prevention and Control Branch, Public Health Agency of Canada: Thank you very much for the question.
With respect to lessons learned, I would say that we’re learning all the time. Certainly, as the pandemic has progressed, we’ve learned in terms of our experience not just here in Canada, but also what’s happening around the world. Even right now, as the vaccine rollout continues in Canada, we are looking at what’s been happening in other countries in terms of lessons learned, and we are making sure that we apply them in the best possible way here in Canada.
I would say that when the pandemic, or at least this particular phase, is over, we’ll take stock again. Any additional improvements we could make to our systems, be it surveillance or vaccine rollout — all those aspects — will be taken into account.
I’m not quite sure if that gets to what you’re looking at.
You also mentioned therapeutics. I would say that in the early days, the science continued to evolve, and we were all looking at what we could do to address the virus, be it treatments or vaccines. About a year or so ago, it would have been unthinkable to think that we would have a vaccine available almost just a year or so after the pandemic started, and here we are trying to get needles into arms. We’re getting close to our goal of fully vaccinating or offering all Canadians their two doses of vaccination by the end of the summer. So that’s all good news.
Because the vaccines have been so successful, therapeutics have perhaps not been in the background but they have not been seen to be as critical. But moving forward, yes, we’ve looked at the experience in other countries. For example, a very simple drug — a steroid, dexamethasone — was shown in certain trials to be very effective as another adjunct treatment to be used in the treatment of those affected by COVID-19. Our clinicians and health care system have been using it, and they’ve had very good results.
We’re looking at the network of scientists, physicians and public health experts throughout the world so we continue to learn from each other and apply the best lessons, including therapeutics.
Senator Loffreda: Thank you for that.
Staying on the vaccine issue, I would like to address the Vaccine Injury Support Program. Once again, it’s not the amount but what’s behind it. These are important issues, as you know.
There is $19 million in these estimates for this pan-Canadian program that seeks to ensure that Canadians have fair access to vaccine injury support in the rare event that they experience an adverse reaction to a Health Canada-approved vaccine.
I note that all Canadians should get vaccinated. We should move on with this, and keep communicating and encouraging people, especially our youth, to get vaccinated.
Could you provide us with an adequate update on this program? Has it been set up already? What type of support will this program provide? Are we talking about financial compensation, mental health support, et cetera? What are we exactly getting at? Has any support been provided to Canadians so far who may have experienced adverse effects from the vaccines, and if so, how many; what are the statistics on that?
It’s imperative to do anything we can to communicate that the vaccines are working, and let’s get vaccinated as quickly as possible.
Dr. Njoo: I’ll start to answer the question and see if any of my colleagues could add to it.
In terms of the Vaccine Injury Support Program, it’s not something specifically because of COVID-19. If you look at the G7 countries, Canada was actually among the last to implement such a program. The province of Quebec has had such a program in place for a long time, recognizing that even though there might be rare events linked to vaccines, in general, it’s a good program to enable us to improve in terms of vaccination rates, but also adequately look at those individuals who might have been injured by a vaccine.
With that in mind, it is obviously good timing to put the program into place with the advent of the COVID-19 vaccinations and the massive vaccine rollout that is well under way.
We can certainly get you more information on the Vaccine Injury Support Program, but it has been launched officially. We have the third-party administrator. In many ways, it is built upon and uses good lessons learned in terms of what has already been in place for many years with the Quebec Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.
Moving forward, there is a process. There is a financial aspect in terms of looking at it on a case-by-case basis for applicants who might believe they have been injured due to a vaccine.
Again, it’s not just related to COVID-19; it’s vaccines in general that are, as you say, approved by Health Canada.
Senator Smith: I have a question for Indigenous Services Canada. Mr. Thompson can maybe help me out.
Earlier this year, the minister responsible announced the government will fail to meet its target date for eliminating all boil water advisories on First Nations reserves. Since then, the minister and the department have made it clear it will ramp up efforts in this regard.
Mr. Thompson, I know I’ve been like a dog chewing a bone, but I’d just like to get an understanding. Could you update us on what operational changes have been put in place since then, and has the department revised its budgetary process to ensure it is working toward achieving these targets?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for the question, senator. I will ask my colleague Danielle White to answer the question.
Danielle White, Special Advisor, Regional Operations Sector, Indigenous Services Canada: Thank you for the question.
Yes, as of December 31, 2020, more than $1.82 billion of targeted funding has been invested in supporting water and waste water projects. Of the 694 projects in total, 393 are now complete and there are another 301 ongoing.
We know there’s much more work to be done. There were investments through Budget 2019 and again in the Fall Economic Statement to ramp up the work around ending long-term drinking water advisories. First Nations have lifted 107 long-term drinking water advisories to date.
In addition, we have worked with our partners to address an additional 180 short-term drinking water advisories to prevent them from becoming long-term. We are also investing in operations and maintenance of existing water and waste water facilities, increasing funding and support for operator training, as well as in the core infrastructure and construction, repair and replacement of water and waste water treatment facilities.
Senator Smith: Is the biggest problem not investing in these upgrades and repairs, but in teaching various individuals who work on site the proper maintenance techniques? Not only do you put in new facilities, but you want to maintain them for the long-term. Is that one of the problems you are facing — the ability to keep things going, updated and upgraded, so that you have a long-term solution as opposed to a 5- to 10-year solution where you suddenly have another three or four hundred that you are going to have to replace because it isn’t being done properly? This is not a criticism against the people. It could be in the process. I wonder what you think about that.
Ms. White: Operations and maintenance is definitely a challenge in maintaining the life cycle of the assets. In many communities, particularly remote communities, there are challenges in recruiting, attracting and retaining qualified water treatment plant operators. However, in order to address that, by 2025, the government will have increased annual funding to support those operations and maintenance components on a permanent basis by almost four times. There is clearly a challenge around operations and maintenance, but it’s also an area we are responding to by making the funding the available. First Nations own and operate their water treatment plants, but the department is providing funding to support them in those efforts in terms of both staffing and training and maintenance of those facilities.
Senator Smith: One more question for Public Health Agency of Canada. There is another request for $1 billion to support COVID-19 isolation centres in the broader travel and border measures. A recent report by a panel of experts suggests the government should consider scrapping the hotel quarantine program altogether. How is the department measuring the success of this program? What metrics are being used to determine whether or not it’s having a positive impact on the transmission of COVID-19 coming into Canada?
Mr. Krumins: With respect to the amount of money we are seeking in these estimates, first of all, I will explain that the total profile for this program is approximately $100 million, of which the supplementary estimates include $40 million for the Safe Voluntary Isolation Sites Program. That is part of the $1 billion for overall border and testing. I would like to turn to my colleague, the vice-president, to respond to the performance measurement component of the question.
Brigitte Diogo, Vice-President, Health Sciences and Regional Operations, Public Health Agency of Canada: Thank you for the question. In terms of the government-authorized accommodation, the main performance measure or indicator that we look at is the positivity rates of the testing. The purpose of the government-authorized accommodation is for people who arrive from an international trip by air to stay at a hotel until they receive the result of their test on arrival. I would say the positivity rates that we have seen in the [Technical difficulties] mode would be one of the elements that would indicate that the measure has been successful in preventing or reducing the risk of community transmission and the ability to ensure that those who are positive are identified. As you know, part of the testing was to be able to do a genome sequencing to identify variants of concern. Over time, we have been monitoring the positivity rates as well as the variants of concern identified and have been able to adjust the measures along the way.
Senator Smith: Have you been able to publish any numbers so we can have something that is concrete and understand whether it has been successful or not, other than the process that you mentioned?
Ms. Diogo: Senator, we would be happy to provide the committee, in writing, some of the results of the testing that was done during the time the measure was in place.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: My first question is for Mr. Thompson.
The budget currently under consideration includes a new line item totalling $104 million to help First Nations leaders improve their governance. It could be many things, but can you tell us the exact amount of the total budget allocated to Indigenous governance? Also, what will this money be used for and what are the real benefits to community members?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you for the question. I’ll turn to my colleague, Ms. Mitchell, who will answer the senator’s question regarding First Nations governance.
Gail Mitchell, Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy and Partnerships Sector, Indigenous Services Canada: Thank you for the question.
[English]
In effect, this is ongoing funding that is connected to band administration. On an annual basis, the department provides funding to support chiefs and councils to manage the affairs at the local level. That is really the essence of the funding here, and it’s a continuation of existing programs, some of which is provided as a matter of routine and a formula, and some of which is provided based on proposals for a specific development of capacities and skills.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: Thank you, Ms. Mitchell.
My next question is for the Public Health Agency of Canada.
Mr. Krumins, we’re looking at supplementary estimates of over $4.3 billion. When we compare last year’s budget to this year’s, we get the impression that you’re stocking up for a fourth wave of COVID-19. Is that right?
If all this money isn’t needed, how do you plan to manage it?
[English]
Mr. Krumins: Thank you for your question. I would note that the majority of funding in these supplementary estimates is reprofiling of unspent money from the previous fiscal year. It is not necessarily new money to plan for new waves, but it is money that would be available, should it be required.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: The Auditor General’s report describes the emergency equipment checks in unflattering terms. I’m sure that you have also read the report. Have you taken any corrective action in this area? What will it cost to fix this situation?
[English]
Mr. Krumins: Senator, thank you for your question. In terms of the Office of the Auditor General’s audit on equipment, personal protective equipment and medical devices, I would turn to my colleague Cindy Evans to respond in terms of the response to that audit.
Ms. Evans: Thank you, honourable senator, for the question. With respect to the Office of the Auditor General’s report on personal protective equipment, we found that the Public Health Agency was not as prepared as it could have been, but it did provide the provinces and territories with the needed personal protective equipment. In part, the early steps taken to put in place a bulk procurement, from which 80% of the incoming personal protective equipment was moved through an allocation framework to the provinces and territories, helped to situate them well as the cases of the pandemic increased in Canada. Thank you.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: By the end of the pandemic, how many doses of vaccine will Canada have purchased? Will there be a surplus? If so, what do you plan to do with the surplus once the pandemic is over?
[English]
Mr. Krumins: Senator, thank you for your question. I believe my colleague Brigadier-General Krista Brodie would be better positioned to respond to dose management.
BGen. Brodie: Thank you, senators. Certainly there are advance purchase agreements, or APAs, that have been negotiated through our government partners in Public Services and Procurement Canada for many millions of doses of vaccines. There are detailed plans in development to ensure that Canadians have all of the vaccines that they need and that we have a robust donation plan to support global vaccination. Thank you.
Senator Pate: Thank you to all the witnesses for appearing. My question is for Indigenous Services. The government has now released the National Action Plan in response to the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls. As a priority, it includes implementation of a guaranteed livable income. What steps are Indigenous Services Canada taking in preparation for this measure and how will a guaranteed livable income effect or interact with the program set out in the supplementary estimates to date?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for this question. Mr. Chair, I will ask my colleague Gail Mitchell from the Strategic Policy and Partnerships Sector to answer the question.
Ms. Mitchell: Thank you very much.
In effect, we provide through our income assistance program supports to individuals living in communities to assist them with the necessities of life. We have, through Budget 2021, made increases to the income assistance program. That will hopefully take us quite a way towards addressing issues around poverty in communities and supporting individuals and being able to address their needs.
Senator Pate: Am I to understand that you have already started work on implementing this guaranteed livable income initiative? Is it focused only on women or will it be focused on communities as a whole?
Ms. Mitchell: We have provided income supports to communities. That has been an ongoing program. What we will be looking at, of course, is how do we ensure it is actually achieving the objectives, which is to support individuals and providing them with requirements to address their basic needs.
Senator Pate: As those details are available, it would be great if you could share them with the committee. Thank you very much.
My second question is following up on Senator Richards’ questions about funding for students. I’m curious whether the funding being provided will support additional students to attend because I notice that there’s a cap of 25,000 students. As Senator Richards pointed out, one of the challenges is providing adequate supports for First Nations, Métis and Inuit students to be able to not just enter post-secondary education, but also be able to complete degrees and professional degrees in particular. What are the plans with respect to enhancing those measures?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you. Again, the $75.3 million is for post-secondary students that are impacted by COVID. This is focused on the existing students.
I know this is not necessarily directly answering the question, but we have $79.7 million included in supplementary estimates for the Youth Employment and Skills Strategy. This funding will allow youth to acquire the skills, learning experience and opportunities they need to find and maintain employment, to advance their careers or even to return to school to obtain further academic qualifications. This would be included in the $79.7 million in the supplementary estimates for the Youth Employment and Skills Strategy.
Senator Pate: Thank you very much. As we are all aware, and it has certainly been in the media this week, the government continues to fight a number of court cases, including the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal. You mentioned the funding breakdown includes an allocation specifically for out-of-court settlements. How will you be allocating resources going forward given some of the upcoming potential class action decisions and lawsuits that are outstanding? How do you plan to address these going forward in the future?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for the question. This is something that the department is really focusing on in collaboration with communities and First Nation leaders. We are very committed to negotiating settlements to these questions. Of course, for the department, it will be a matter of implementing the negotiated settlement. Decisions will need to be made regarding those negotiations and the department will seek mandates to implement the decisions that are made out of those settlements.
Senator M. Deacon: Thank you all of you for being here today. I think we all carry cautious hope of where we are now and where we hope to be in the next four months ahead of us.
My first question is for the Public Health Agency of Canada. It has been touched on a bit. My question concerns our participation in the COVAX facility. Canada continues to donate money to this program and there is some earmarked to continue this work, but the pressure is growing for us to donate vaccines as well. Recently, Minister Anand stated that by the end of September we will have received, for example, 50 million doses of Pfizer alone. This is in addition to AstraZeneca and Moderna.
At what point do we defer some of these shipments to other countries? Is there a threshold of two dose vaccinated Canadians, a certain amount or percentage, that we need to reach before we do this?
Mr. Krumins: Senator, thank you for your question. I believe there are two parts to your question, one in terms of immunity in the population and the second is in terms of dose management. I believe my colleague Dr. Njoo can respond to the component regarding population immunity and start from there.
Dr. Njoo: Thank you very much for the question.
With respect to the vaccine rollout, as I think we said publicly based on some of the modelling expertise within the agency that has been put forward, we have been looking at a target in Canada of at least 75% of Canadians having received one dose and 20% having received the full two doses before we can start looking at potentially a lifting of more restrictive public health measures, obviously at a local level depending on the epidemiological situation. The main goal here in Canada is to look at not overloading the health care system, as unfortunately was the case with the third wave in many parts of the country.
We’re seeing good results. I can see with two doses that many of our seniors have received to date that we are seeing a positive impact in terms of morbidity and mortality. What is happening in the nursing homes across the country is certainly not as serious as was the case with previous waves. Therefore, we’re looking positively to being able to offer all Canadians two doses — who are eligible to receive two doses — of the vaccine by the end of the summer.
By my calculations, it’s somewhere a bit north of 30 million. If we are looking at the population of Canada, based on the last census and using a total population number of about 38 million, I think we are well on track. It’s a matter of receiving the vaccine supplies, rolling it out to the provinces and within their own jurisdiction having their vaccination programs offer it in many different ways very successfully to their citizens.
I will pass it now to my colleague Brigadier-General Krista Brodie to talk about other logistical aspects of the vaccine rollout, and I think your question also related to COVAX. Thank you.
BGen. Brodie: Thank you, Mr. Chair and senators. We are working very closely on monitoring the key performance indicators that would indicate when there is enough vaccine in the Canadian enterprise, so across the provinces and territories, to ensure that we have sufficient supply to offer those second doses. We are working with the manufacturers and with the provinces and territories for those approved vaccines to ensure that we have the right quantity and the right balance based on the demand signals that are being transmitted from the provinces and territories. We are ensuring we can give them what they need in terms of the right vaccine and the right quantity to meet their immunization campaigns and plans and needs.
As we roll through the summer, the demand signal will get more and more sophisticated based on those key performance indicators, so that we can essentially wind down or more elegantly control the taps on the supply as it flows into the provinces. We recognize that this week we have essentially reached critical mass for the territories, having delivered all the doses they need to immunize their 12-and-up populations both for Pfizer and Moderna. We continue each week to get closer and closer to that critical mass point of vaccine availability with the provinces, particularly as we advance through the summer with those strong deliveries of Pfizer. We project those to go through July and into August.
We are very closely monitoring what we need within the Canadian enterprise and then what is available for donation and working with our government partners to develop those donation plans accordingly. Thank you.
Senator M. Deacon: Thank you. I’ll stick with this for a moment, if you don’t mind. Let’s look at those folks who have contracted COVID, the group who, weeks and months later, are still dealing with symptoms, in some cases quite severe, maybe not rare but severe, forcing them to miss work and keeping them from returning to any kind of normal life.
For the funding provided here in the supplementary estimates, specifically $713 million on pages 1 to 13, what work will the Public Health Agency be doing to address the matter of long-term COVID patients? Are these people being looked after, with this disease still being so new and not knowing its long-term effects? Parallel to Canada continuing its successful vaccine campaign and as society returns to something we call normal, I would hate to see these long-term COVID sufferers left behind. I am wondering if you could provide any insight on that today.
Mr. Krumins: I will turn to my colleague Dr. Njoo regarding surveillance.
Dr. Njoo: Thank you very much for the question. Certainly, at the Public Health Agency of Canada, we are well aware of this phenomenon you are talking about, the so-called long haulers, people with long-term effects of COVID-19 infection. It’s something that we are all learning about, not just here in Canada but around the world. Medical researchers and clinicians are looking at some of the effects and some of the possible ways it could be managed and treated moving into the future. It’s new territory; it’s new ground. There are no quick answers at this point. It’s something we will all need to collectively learn as we move forward.
The other point I would raise is that when we talk about health care, that’s within the purview of the provinces and territories. From the Public Health Agency of Canada perspective, we are there to help gather the evidence, the scientific information about what may or may not be helpful in managing these individuals with the long-term effects of COVID-19 and then giving that to the provinces and territories in terms of information and guidance.
Senator M. Deacon: Thank you.
The Chair: Dr. Njoo, I want to take this opportunity, as chair of the Finance Committee, and no doubt our members are linked together in this, to say thank you very much for the leadership you are providing across Canada.
[Translation]
Dr. Njoo: Thank you. I appreciate it.
Senator Moncion: I have a question for the Public Health Agency of Canada and Indigenous Services Canada. First, can you talk about the $1,058.6 million for border and travel measures and isolation sites? Could you provide a very specific breakdown of that amount, based on the different programs included?
[English]
Mr. Krumins: Senator, certainly, I can do that for you, quickly. In these Supplementary Estimates (A), we have sought $1.1 billion. That is broken down by three items, which include borders and quarantine, which are designated quarantine facilities, screening officers and operations at the border; that is a total of $504.7 million. We have funding in these estimates of $40 million for safe voluntary isolation sites and a further $513.8 million for the testing program, both at airports and at the land points of entry for day one and day eight testing.
Senator Moncion: Thank you. The other question that I have is related to travel, looking at passports or certificates of immunization for incoming or outgoing Canadians or anyone who is crossing the borders here. Could you speak on this? Has anything been done by Canada on this question particularly?
Mr. Krumins: Thank you for your question. With respect to the management of the borders, I would turn to my colleague Brigitte Diogo.
Ms. Diogo: Thank you, senator, for the questions. The proof of vaccination credentials is one of the two that could certainly help facilitate international travel. Canada has been working with other governments and international bodies, including working with the provinces and territories, to look at the policies and technical considerations for vaccine certificates. As the Public Health Agency of Canada, we continue to encourage Canadians not to travel, but the credential is certainly something that we will continue to examine and how it could be used to facilitate international travel. That work is under way. We will be able to report at a later stage on conclusions. Thank you.
[Translation]
Senator Moncion: Does the budget include money for this component, because it’s significant? The borders will soon be open again around the world — well, maybe not everywhere, because there’s still a great deal of infection — but we’ve reached that point. We shouldn’t wait until after the borders are open to implement passports or certificates. Can you provide a brief response?
Ms. Diogo: Yes. Martin?
[English]
Mr. Krumins: I would say these estimates do not seek money specifically for the implementation of border passports or vaccine certificates.
Senator Moncion: Thank you.
[Translation]
My second question is for Indigenous Services Canada. You’re talking about funding. I want to talk specifically about infrastructure. You have $760 million allocated to infrastructure funding. You have an Indigenous community support fund of $292 million, an infrastructure operations and maintenance fund of $225 million, and $186 million allocated to Indigenous businesses. The government’s 2021-22 budget includes provisions for infrastructure funding by Indigenous communities and for their financial self-sufficiency. Can you talk about the relationship between the programs currently being introduced and Bill C-30?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you for the question. In terms of the money in Supplementary Estimates (A), part of the funding is included in the 2021 budget. This is a portion of those investments. It isn’t all the announcements in the 2021 budget.
The amounts that you brought up are for different things. Yes, there are the infrastructure costs, such as $228.2 million and $292.3 million. However, there’s also the amount that you mentioned with regard to Indigenous businesses.
I’ll ask my colleague, Danielle White, to provide some additional information on infrastructure and the portion of the infrastructure budget. If you want more information on Indigenous businesses, my colleague, Kelley Blanchette, could elaborate on those investments.
[English]
Ms. White: The portion of the Budget 2021 funding that you see in the supplementary estimates is the $292.3 million, which is to fund operations and maintenance of infrastructure on reserve.
Just to clarify in relation to my previous response that it is apart from the water and waste water infrastructure; it’s operations and maintenance of other types of infrastructure. It covers things such as costing studies; priority repairs; renovations of community-based infrastructure, including health facilities; and solid waste management.
That is the portion of Budget 2021.
The other amount, the $228.2 million, is funding that was announced in the Fall Economic Statement in 2020 to unlock the remaining investments that were first announced in Budget 2017. That, again, is for other community infrastructure for specific projects.
The Chair: Thank you, Ms. White.
[Translation]
Mr. Thompson, you said that Ms. Blanchette might have something to add. If so, could you send the information in writing directly to the clerk?
Mr. Thompson: Yes, of course. Absolutely.
The Chair: Thank you.
[English]
Senator Duncan: I appreciate the opportunity to work with my colleagues and to hear from the witnesses this morning. Thank you very much for being here.
My questions follow up on questions that have been asked very ably by my colleagues.
In the previous discussion with officials, my questions were around accountability measures, and they were answered by Mr. Purves. He indicated that when departments do main estimates, they also identify a full spending plan, and departmental plans are available. When we try to access the Indigenous Services Canada plan, we’re advised that the content is restricted to authorized IP addresses only.
Can the officials advise when we might be able to access the departmental plan and the performance measures?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for the question.
I was not aware of that situation. The departmental plan should be available. I will do a proper follow-up to make sure those plans are available, because they should be made available once they are tabled in Parliament. It is a surprise to me that some IPs are restricted from having access to the departmental plan and the associated performance measures. Thank you for raising that issue.
Senator Duncan: Thank you very much. I appreciate that.
The questions around early childhood programming have been asked. The concern that my colleagues are addressing is that we have heard repeatedly that these programs must be Indigenous-led. I’ve heard phrases such as “well adapted” and “co-developed.” Could we have more detail on this? Perhaps that response could be in writing, including the distinction and distribution of funds throughout Canada.
If I could ask Mr. Thompson to perhaps provide that information in writing and to advise specifically regarding the Indigenous involvement in the development of these programs.
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much. If time permits, I would ask my colleague Keith Conn to provide an answer to the senator.
Mr. Conn: Thank you, senator, for the question.
We will follow up in writing as well, but I can assure you that the process of examining and developing an Indigenous early learning child care framework agreement was fully inclusive of First Nations, Inuit and Métis partners from across the nation, including national organizations, regional organizations and community organizations that are delivering early learning and child care. They were a strong driver of the framework, and I think that’s a signal of the notion of it being Indigenous-led.
There is more to come, but we can provide more details in terms of how Indigenous peoples were fully engaged in influencing the direction forward for the framework agreement.
Senator Duncan: Thank you very much. If you could indicate the provincial and territorial involvement, as well as First Nations — across the provinces and territories, that involvement — I’d appreciate it.
To follow up on something that Senator Pate raised regarding a guaranteed livable income program, I had previously asked a question about this, and the department responded in writing that the income assistance program completed a First Nations-led engagement on income assistance to look at how the program could be more responsive. The department also supplied in writing to the committee that it was expected that, through this discussion process, various possible reforms to the income assistance program would be considered. This was the 2018-20 assistance program engagement.
In the Yukon report on health, Putting People First, the suggestion was that there would be a basic income guarantee. The Yukon government looked toward that. The Prince Edward Island government has worked significantly to implementing a basic income guarantee.
Can the officials provide us with information as to whether the income assistance program has been involved in the discussions with Prince Edward Island and the Yukon regarding basic income guarantee?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for the question.
We currently don’t have a program in the organization with regard to a basic income guarantee. As my colleague mentioned earlier, the fund is currently the income assistance program as well as the assisted living programs, and they are providing the necessary income to the people who absolutely need it.
The work continues in terms of negotiations with regard to program reform on income assistance, and I’m quite positive that those negotiations are with all key stakeholders from across the country. But at this stage, this programming is still delivered through the income assistance program and the assisted living programs.
Senator Duncan: I appreciate that, Mr. Thompson. My question, though, and I’m sorry if I wasn’t very clear is this: There was a First Nation-led engagement on income assistance, and I’m looking to see whether that engagement process included a basic income guarantee specifically with those provinces and territories that are considering the program. Was it a recommendation? “Is it on the table,” is my question.
Mr. Thompson: Thank you for the question. Maybe my colleague Gail Mitchell would have additional information on that.
Ms. Mitchell: Thank you.
In fact, as we’ve previously noted, the income assistance program is the main tool that we use to support individuals in providing coverage for basic necessities, shelter and so forth. Guarantees incomes are something that governments have been considering. To my knowledge, we don’t have any in place anywhere in Canada at the moment, but it’s something that, from time to time, becomes a question for consideration.
We’ll have to confirm who was engaged in that dialogue, but the primary partners in the discussion of the policy were First Nations.
Senator Duncan: Right. My question specifically was that the department has said there was a First Nations-led engagement on income assistance. Did the First Nations come back and say, “We think a basic income guarantee is a good idea,” and is the department working on it?
Those are my specific questions, which could perhaps be answered in writing.
The Chair: Mr. Thompson, if you could look into that and answer in writing, we would appreciate it.
Mr. Thompson: Absolutely.
The Chair: To the witnesses, on behalf of the Finance Committee, you were very informative and professional. We will await your answers to questions on or before June 11.
Senators, before we proceed to clause-by-clause consideration of Bill S-222, the sponsor has just joined us.
[Translation]
Senator Omidvar, thank you for coming.
[English]
You’re always welcome to our committee. Thank you for the leadership you have provided with Bill S-222.
Senator Omidvar: Thank you.
The Chair: Honourable senators, before we proceed to clause-by-clause consideration of Bill S-222, An Act to amend the Income Tax Act (use of resources), I would like to remind senators that if at any point a senator is not sure exactly where we are, please ask for clarification. I want to ensure that everyone is on the same page and that we are doing our due diligence for clause by clause.
[Translation]
I also want to tell my colleagues that, in the event of uncertainty about the outcome of a vote, the safest thing to do is to ask for a standing vote. Also, please be aware that a tie vote will result in the motion being defeated.
[English]
Before I proceed any further, I would like to know if there are any questions from the senators.
Not seeing any questions, we will now proceed to clause by clause.
Honourable senators, is it agreed that the committee proceed to clause-by-clause consideration of Bill S-222, An Act to amend the Income Tax Act (use of resources)?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you, honourable senators.
Honourable senators, shall the title stand postponed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you, honourable senators.
Shall the preamble stand postponed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
[Translation]
The Chair: Shall clause 1, which contains the short title, stand postponed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 2 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
[English]
The Chair: Shall clause 3 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 4 carry?
Hon. Senators: Carried.
[Translation]
The Chair: Shall clause 5 carry?
Hon. Senators: Carried.
[English]
The Chair: Honourable senators, shall clause 6 carry?
Hon. Senators: Carried.
[Translation]
The Chair: Shall clause 7 of the bill carry?
Hon. Senators: Carried.
[English]
The Chair: Honourable senators, shall clause 1, which contains the short title, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall the preamble carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
[Translation]
The Chair: Shall the title carry?
Hon. Senators: Carried.
[English]
Thank you, honourable senators. Shall the bill carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Are there any amendments to the bill, honourable senators? I see that we have not been advised on amendments. Therefore, the bill would be carried, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Does the committee wish to consider any observations on the report?
Hon. Senators: No.
The Chair: Thank you, honourable senators. Is it agreed that I report this bill to the Senate?
Hon. Senators: Carried.
The Chair: Before we conclude, I see that all the items on our agenda have been completed. Before I give additional instructions for the meeting this afternoon, I will ask Senator Omidvar, the sponsor of the bill, if she wants to conclude with a short comment, please.
Senator Omidvar: Thank you, chair. The only comment I want to make is to thank you and your committee, the steering committee members, for the courtesy you have shown me as a non-voting member of this committee and to agree to swift passage in the Senate, hopefully, of this bill because of the urgency of the current situation, which has been a long time in the making. You have no idea how relieved the charitable sector will be when this gets from the Senate to the House of Commons. We don’t know about the timing, but we are still optimistic about it. Thank you so much.
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Omidvar.
On this, honourable senators, our next meeting is scheduled for this afternoon, again on Supplementary Estimates (A), at 2:30 p.m. EST. If there are no additional comments from senators, I will adjourn the meeting.
Seeing no comments, I will now adjourn the meeting, and we’ll see you this afternoon. Thank you, honourable senators, and thank you to the team.
(The committee adjourned.)