46 Elizabeth II, A.D. 1997, Canada

Journals of the Senate


Issue 11

Thursday, October 23, 1997
2:00 p.m.

The Honourable Gildas L. Molgat, Speaker


The Members convened were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Balfour, Beaudoin, Bolduc, Bonnell, Bosa, Bryden, Butts, Callbeck, Carstairs, Cochrane, Cohen, Comeau, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, DeWare, Doody, Doyle, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Forrestall, Ghitter, Gigantès, Grafstein, Graham, Gustafson, Hébert, Jessiman, Johnson, Kelleher, Kelly, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Lavoie-Roux, LeBreton, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, MacDonald, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Perrault, Petten, Phillips, Poulin, Prud'homme, Roberge, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Rompkey, Rossiter, Simard, Sparrow, Spivak, Stewart, Stollery, Stratton, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Whelan

PRAYERS

SENATORS' STATEMENTS

Some Honourable Senators made statements.

DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS

Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees

The Honourable Senator Ghitter tabled the following (Sessional Paper No. 1/36-194S):

THURSDAY, October 23, 1997

The Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources has the honour to present its

FIRST REPORT

Your Committee, which was authorized by the Senate to incur expenses for the purpose of its examination and consideration of such legislation and other matters as were referred to it, reports pursuant to Rule 104, that the expenses incurred by the Committee during the Second Session of the Thirty-fifth Parliament (February 27, 1996 - April 27 1997) are as follows:

1. With respect to its examination and consideration of legislation:

Professional Services     $ 16,591.00
Transportation     70,990.00
Other, Miscellaneous     400.00
Total     $ 87,981.00
 

2. With respect to its study on issues relating to energy, the environment and natural resources:

Professional Services     $ 3,542.00
Transportation     21,646.00
Other, Miscellaneous     ---
Total     $ 25,188.00
Witnesses' expenses     $ 1,455.00
 

Your Committee heard from 106 witnesses and held 22 meetings during which it reviewed two Bills (C-23 and C-29); monitor all matter related to the implementation and application of the Act to accelerate the use of alternative fuels for internal combustion engines (previously S-7).

Your Committee travelled on fact-finding visits to Calgary and Fort McMurray, Alberta, June 3-7, 1996, to California, October 28 - November 1st, 1996; and to Banff, Alberta, January 30-31, 1997 (as a follow-up on report entitled "Protecting Placed & People" and "Banff-Bow Valley, At The Crossroad"). The Committee also sent delegations of members to eight major conferences.

In all, your Committee issued eight reports in relation to its work.

Respectfully submitted,

RONALD D. GHITTER

Chair

The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., tabled the following (Sessional Paper No. 1/36-195S):

THURSDAY, October 23 , 1997

The Special Committee of the Senate on the Cape Breton Development Corporation, which was empowered by the Senate to incur expenses for the purpose of its examination upon the Annual Report, Corporate Plan and progress reports of the Cape Breton Development Corporation and related matters, reports, pursuant to Rule 104, that the expenses incurred by the Committee during the Second Session of the Thirty-fifth Parliament are as follows:

Professional services     $23,548.25
Transportation     25,488.15
Witness expenses     $ 269.85
Miscellaneous     1,356.00
Total     $50,662.25
During the session, the Committee held 16 meetings and heard more than 30 hours of testimony, given by 49 witnesses.

The Committee was established on April 25, 1996 and presented two reports to the Senate. The First Report, adopted on May 30, 1996, requested the approval of its budget application, and the Final Report, presented on June 28, 1996, included the Findings, Conclusions and Recommendations of the Committee. On February 11, 1997, the Special Committee was revived. During the course of that study, the Committee held hearings in Sydney, Nova Scotia and visited the Phalen colliery, witnessing first hand the underground operations and mining activities on the coal face known as the 7 East Wall. The Final Report was tabled on April 25, 1997.

Respectfully submitted,

WILLIAM ROMPKEY

The Honourable Senator Stratton tabled the following (Sessional Paper No. 1/36-196S):

THURSDAY, October 23, 1997

The Standing Senate Committee on National Finance has the honour to present its

FIRST REPORT

Your Committee, which was authorized by the Senate to incur expenses for the purpose of its examination and consideration of estimates and such legislation as was referred to it, reports, pursuant to Rule 104 of the Rules of the Senate, that the expenses incurred by the Committee during the Second Session of the Thirty-fifth Parliament are as follows:

 

Professional Services     $54,272.00
Transportation
(including witnesses expenses)   
 1,683.00
Miscellaneous     40.00
TOTAL     $ 55,995.00
 

Your Committee held 26 meetings, during which it heard 75 witnesses. It reviewed two sets of Main Estimates (1996-97, 1997-98), three sets of Supplementary Estimates: Supplementary Estimates (B), 1996-97, Supplementary Estimates (A), 1996-97, Supplementary Estimates (B), 1995-96, and four Bills (C-10, C-270, C-31, C-7), one special study (the Canada Health and Social Transfer (CHST)). It issued 9 reports.

Respectfully submitted,

TERRANCE R. STRATTON

Chairman

The Honourable Senator Milne tabled the following (Sessional Paper No. 1/36-197S):

THURSDAY, October 23, 1997

The Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs has the honour to table its

FIRST REPORT

Your Committee, which was authorized by the Senate to incur expenses for the purpose of its examination and consideration of such legislation and other matters as were referred to it, reports, pursuant to Rule 104, that the expenses incurred by the Committee during the Second Session of the Thirty-fifth Parliament are as follows:

1. With respect to its examination and consideration of legislation:

Professional Services     $ 4,981.15
Witness Expenses     51,470.38
Other     63.00
TOTAL     $ 56,514.53
 

2. With respect to its examination of the resolution to amend the Constitution of Canada, Term 17 of the Terms of Union of Newfoundland with Canada:

Professional Services     $ 8,857.00
Transportation     40,762.29
Witness Expenses     12,690.71
Other     3,630.00
TOTAL     $ 65,940.00
 

In the course of the Second Session of the Thirty-fifth Parliament, the Committee held eighty-five meetings, during which it heard three hundred and seventy-three witnesses. The Committee considered twenty-five bills, including seventeen Government public bills, three private members' public bills introduced in the Commons, three Senate public bills and two Senate private bills. In addition, the Committee had referred to it the resolution to amend the Constitution of Canada, Term 17 of the Terms of Union of Newfoundland with Canada. The Committee also reviewed the proposed regulations pursuant to the Firearms Act, as well as the proposed regulations pursuant to the Referendum Act. The Committee submitted thirty-one reports.

Respectfully submitted,

LORNA MILNE

Chair

The Honourable Senator Forrestall for the Honourable Senator Bacon tabled the following (Sessional Paper No. 1/36- 198S):

THURSDAY, October 23, 1997

The Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications has the honour to present its

FIRST REPORT

Your Committee, which was authorized by the Senate to incur expenses for the purpose of its examination and consideration of such legislation and other matters as were referred to it, reports, pursuant to Rule 104 of the Rules, that the expenses incurred by the Committee during the Second Session of the Thirty-fifth Parliament are as follows:

1. With respect to its examination of legislation:

Professional services     $ 46,804.85
Witness expenses     9,600.73
Miscellaneous     437.00
Total     $ 56,842.58
 

2. With respect to its special study on transportation safety:

Professional services     $ 90,160.72
Transportation     96,726.12
Witness expenses     4,411.98
Miscellaneous     1,125.00
Total     $ 192,423.82
 

3. With respect to its special study on Canada's international competitive position in communications:

Professional services     $ 90,055.50
Transportation     10,460.00
Witness expenses     680.68
Miscellaneous     4,533.00
Total     $ 105,729.18
 

During the session your Committee held 24 meetings, considered nine Orders of Reference and submitted 12 reports in relation to its work.

The Subcommittee on safety held 16 meetings and heard more than 45 hours of testimony given by 99 witnesses in relation to the special study on transport safety. It held hearings in Yellowknife, Edmonton, Vancouver, Montreal, and Halifax. The Subcommittee also went to Washington D.C., on a fact-finding mission to meet with officials, as well as industry representatives, safety and labour associations.

The Subcommittee on Communications held 15 meetings and heard more than 34 hours of testimony given by 51 witnesses in relation to the special study on Canada's international competitive position in communications. It went on a fact-finding mission to Boston to meet academics at Harvard University and at the Media Lab at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. The Committee presented its Interim report entitled Wired to Win to the Senate on April 22, 1997.

Also, your Committee examined 7 bills:

Bill C-14, An Act to continue the National Transportation Agency as the Canadian Transportation Agency, to consolidate and revise the National Transportation Act, 1987 and the Railway Act and to amend or repeal other Acts as a consequence;

Bill C-20, An Act respecting the commercialization of civil air navigation services;

Bill C-216, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act;

Bill C-57, An Act to amend the Bell Canada Act;

Bill C-32, An Act to amend the Copyright Act;

Bill C-44, An Act for making the system of Canadian ports competitive, efficient and commercially oriented, providing for the establishing of port authorities and the divesting of certain harbours and ports, for the commercialization of the St. Lawrence Seaway and ferry services and other matters related to maritime trade and transport and amending the Pilotage Act and amending and repealing other Acts as a consequence;

Bill S-7, An Act to dissolve the Nipissing and James Bay Railway Company.

Respectfully submitted,

Lise Bacon

Chair

The Honourable Senator Stewart tabled the Interim Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs entitled: "The Importance of the Asia Pacific Region for Canada", dated June, 1997.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-199S.

Government Notices of Motions

With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C.,(L'Acadie-Acadia):

That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until Tuesday next, October 28, 1997, at 2:00 p.m.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Tabling of Reports From Inter-Parliamentary Delegations

The Honourable Senator Grafstein tabled the following:

Report of the Canadian Section of the Canada-United States Inter-Parliamentary Group, which attended the Thirty-eighth Annual Meeting of the Group, held in Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island, from September 11 to 15, 1997.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-200.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Bills

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Lewis, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stewart, for the second reading of Bill S-5, An Act to amend the Canada Evidence Act and the Criminal Code in respect of persons with disabilities, to amend the Canadian Human Rights Act in respect of persons with disabilities and other matters and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Kinsella moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Doyle, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Motions

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Forest, seconded by the Honourable Senator Mercier:

That the following Address be presented to His Excellency the Governor General of Canada:

To His Excellency the Right Honourable Roméo A. LeBlanc, a Member of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada, Chancellor and Principal Companion of the Order of Canada, Chancellor and Commander of the Order of Military Merit, Governor General and Commander-in-Chief of Canada.

MAY IT PLEASE YOUR EXCELLENCY:

We, Her Majesty's most loyal and dutiful subjects, the Senate of Canada in Parliament assembled, beg leave to offer our humble thanks to Your Excellency for the gracious Speech which Your Excellency has addressed to both Houses of Parliament.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C. (L'Acadie-Acadia), that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Pearson, seconded by the Honourable Senator Carstairs:

That a Special Joint Committee of the Senate and the House of Commons be appointed to examine and analyze issues relating to parenting arrangements after separation and divorce, and in particular, to assess the need for a more child-centred approach to family law policies and practices that would emphasize parental responsibilities rather than parental rights and child-focused parenting arrangements based on children's needs and best interests;

That seven Members of the Senate and sixteen Members of the House of Commons be members of the Committee with two Joint Chairpersons;

That changes in the membership, on the part of the House of Commons of the Committee be effective immediately after a notification signed by the member acting as the chief Whip of any recognized party has been filed with the clerk of the Committee;

That the Committee be directed to consult broadly, examine relevant research studies and literature and review models being used or developed in other jurisdictions;

That the Committee have the power to sit during sittings and adjournments of the Senate;

That the Committee have the power to report from time to time, to send for persons, papers and records, and to print such papers and evidence as may be ordered by the Committee;

That the Committee have the power to retain the services of expert, professional, technical and clerical staff, including legal counsel;

That a quorum of the Committee be twelve members whenever a vote, resolution or other decision is taken so long as both Houses are represented and the Joint Chairpersons will be authorized to hold meetings, to receive evidence and authorize the printing thereof, whenever six members are present, so long as both Houses are represented;

That the Committee be empowered to appoint, from among its members, such subcommittees as may be deemed advisable, and to delegate to such subcommittees, all or any of its power except the power to report to the Senate and House of Commons;

That the Committee be empowered to authorize television and radio broadcasting of any or all of its proceedings; and

That the Committee make its final report no later than November 30, 1998; and

That a message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House accordingly.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Adams, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Order No. 3 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

OTHER BUSINESS

Other

Orders No. 3 (motion) and 4 (inquiry) were called and postponed until the next sitting. Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Lynch-Staunton, seconded by the Honourable Senator Berntson:

That a Special Committee of the Senate be appointed to examine and report on the manner in which the chain of command of the Canadian Forces both in-theatre and at National Defence Headquarters, responded to the operational, disciplinary, decision-making and administrative problems encountered during the Somalia deployment to the extent that these matters have not been examined by the Commission of Inquiry into the Deployment of Canadian Forces to Somalia;

That the Committee in examining these issues may call witnesses from whom it believes it may obtain evidence relevant to these matters including but not limited to:

1. former Ministers of National Defence;

2. the then Deputy Minister of National Defence;

3. the then Acting Chief of Staff of the Minister of National Defence;

4. the then special advisor to the Minister of National Defence (M. Campbell);

5. the then special advisor to the Minister of National Defence (J. Dixon);

6. the persons occupying the position of Judge Advocate General during the relevant period;

7. the then Deputy Judge Advocate General (litigation); and

8. the then Chief of Defence Staff and Deputy Chief of Defence Staff.

That seven Senators, nominated by the Committee of Selection act as members of the Special Committee, and that three members constitute a quorum;

That the Committee have power to send for persons, papers and records, to examine witnesses under oath, to report from time to time and to print such papers and evidence from day to day as may be ordered by the Committee;

That the Committee have power to authorize television and radio broadcasting, as it deems appropriate, of any or all of its proceedings;

That the Committee have the power to engage the services of such counsel and other professional, technical, clerical and other personnel as may be necessary for the purposes of its examination;

That the political parties represented o the Special Committee be granted allocations for expert assistance with the work of the Committee;

That it be empowered to adjourn from place to place within and outside Canada;

That the Committee have the power to sit during sittings and adjournments of the Senate;

That the Committee submit its report not later than one year from the date of it being constituted, provided that if the Senate is not sitting, the report will be deemed submitted on the day such report is deposited with the Clerk of the Senate; and

That the Special Committee include in its report, its findings and recommendations regarding the structure, functioning and operational effectiveness of National Defence Headquarters, the relationship between the military and civilian components of NDHQ, and the relationship among the Deputy Minister of Defence, the Chief of Defence Staff and the Minister of National Defence.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Forrestall moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Spivak, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

INQUIRIES

The Honourable Senator Stewart called the attention of the Senate to the Interim Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs entitled: "The Importance of the Asia Pacific Region for Canada."

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Kinsella moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Jessiman, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

MOTIONS

The Honourable Senator Kinsella for the Honourable Senator Ghitter moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Jessiman:

That the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources have power to engage the services of such counsel and technical, clerical and other personnel as may be necessary for the purpose of its examination and consideration of such bills, subject-matters of bills and estimates as are referred to it; and

That the Committee have power to adjourn from place to place within and outside Canada for the purpose of such studies.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Honourable Senator Kinsella for the Honourable Senator Ghitter moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Jessiman:

That the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources be empowered to permit coverage by electronic media of its public proceedings with the least possible disruption of its hearings.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Honourable Senator Kinsella for the Honourable Senator Ghitter moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Jessiman:

That the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources, in accordance with Rule 86(1)(p), be authorized to examine such issues as may arise from time to time relating to energy, the environment and natural resources generally in Canada; and

That the Committee report to the Senate no later than March 31, 1999.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

ADJOURNMENT

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fairbairn, P.C.:

That the Senate do now adjourn.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.