Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Fisheries
Issue 1 - Evidence
OTTAWA, Tuesday, March 26, 1996
The Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries met this day at 5:30 p.m. to organize the activities of the committee.
[English]
Mr. John Desmarais, Clerk of the Committee: Honourable senators, the first item of business on the agenda before you is the election of a chairman. I am prepared to receive nominations now.
Senator Petten: I nominate Senator Comeau.
Senator Jessiman: I move that the nominations be closed.
The Clerk of the Committee: It has been moved by the Honourable Senator Petten that the Honourable Senator Comeau be elected chairman of this committee. Is it your pleasure to adopt that motion?
Hon. Members: Agreed.
Senator Desmarais: I declare the Honourable Senator Comeau elected chairman of this committee.
Senator Comeau, I would invited you to take the Chair now.
(Senator Gerald J. Comeau (Chairman) in the Chair.)
The Chairman: I will keep the next item on the agenda, "Opening Remarks by the Chair," brief.
I look forward to working with you in the coming year. The committee can do great work on behalf of the fishing community.
As a case in point, you will recall that we passed a report some months ago which received the unanimous approval of the Fishing Alliance of Scotia-Fundy, one of the biggest fishing areas in all of Canada. That is an indication of the good work that this committee has done and, I hope, will continue to do in the future.
At this time I should like to welcome a brand new member to the committee, namely, Senator Landry. I know that you will enjoy the work that we will be doing here.
The next item on the agenda is the election of the deputy chairman. May I have a motion to that effect?
Senator Rossiter: I move that the Honourable Senator Perrault be elected deputy chairman.
The Chairman: It was moved by the Honourable Senator Rossiter that the Honourable Senator Perrault be elected deputy chairman of the committee. Is it agreed?
Hon. Members: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
The next item is "Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure." I need someone to move the following:
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure (Steering Committee) be composed of the Chair, the Deputy Chair and one other member of the Committee to be designated after the usual consultation;
That the Subcommittee be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the Committee with respect to its agenda and procedure;
That the Subcommittee be empowered to invite witnesses and schedule hearings; and
That the Subcommittee report its decisions to the Committee.
Senator Jessiman: I so move that motion.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Members: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Item No. 5 on the agenda is "Motion to print the Committee's Proceedings." I need someone to move:
That 410 copies be printed for distribution; and
That the Chair be authorized to adjust this number based on demand.
Senator Petten: I so move that.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Members: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
The next item is "Holding meetings to print evidence when quorum is not present."
Senator Rossiter: I so move that item.
The Chairman: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Rossiter:
That, pursuant to Rule 89, the Chair be authorized to hold meetings to receive and authorize the printing of evidence when a quorum is not present.
Is it agreed?
Hon. Members: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Next is the "Financial Report." We will skip that item because we do not have anything to report at this point.
The next item is "Research staff." Under this item, I need someone to move the following:
That the Committee ask the Library of Parliament to assign research officers to the Committee;
That the Chair, on behalf of the Committee, direct the research staff in the preparation of studies, analyses and summaries.
Senator Petten: I so move.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Members: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
The next item is No. 9, "Authority to commit funds and certify accounts." Will someone move the following, namely:
That, pursuant to section 32 of the Financial Administration Act, authority to commit funds be conferred on the Chair or in the Chair's absence, the Deputy Chair; and
That, pursuant to section 34 of the Financial Administration Act, and Guideline 3:05 of Appendix II of the Rules of the Senate, authority for certifying accounts payable by the Committee be conferred on the Chair, the Deputy Chair and/or the Clerk of the Committee.
Senator Rossiter: I so move.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Members: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Item No. 10 is "Travelling and living expenses of witnesses." I need someone to move the following:
That, pursuant to the Senate guidelines for witnesses expenses, the Committee may reimburse reasonable travelling and living expenses for no more than two witnesses from any one organization and payment will take place upon application.
Senator Jessiman: I so move.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Members: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Next is "communications plan", Item No. 11. This is a fairly new item on agendas, which we have not had before. The board of Internal Economy has requested that we repair some kind of communications plan outlining the work of the committee. The clerk has been preparing this and putting down some ideas because we are travelling new ground on this one.
Traditionally, Senate committees have depended on the good work of the committee as a means of letting the public see what we are doing. Some people have suggested -- and I think it is right -- that we should expand upon this somewhat. The clerk has been in the process of doing exactly that. As soon as we get some ideas put down on paper, we will be returning to the committee with the ideas that we have. In the meantime, if you have any ideas on how we can prepare a communications package, we would appreciate your assistance and advice.
Senator De Bané: If I am not mistaken, I think that the Internal Economy Committee has allocated $20,000 for every standing committee to hire professionals to publicize what they are doing, et cetera.
The Chairman: I am not aware of the amount.
Senator De Bané: It is approximately $20,000 to hire professional people in public relations, communications, et cetera.
Senator Petten: Yes, but it must be built into the expenses of the committee. You do not wait until everything is over to request it. You request the funds all at one time so that you are not searching afterwards to get a few dollars to publicize the work of the committee.
The Chairman: That is correct. It will be built into the committee budget that we will be submitting to the Internal Economy Committee. We still must get approval of a budget and working plan from Internal Economy once we get our order of reference.
With that in mind, is it agreed to leave this until later on?
Hon. Members: Agreed.
The Chairman: We then go to Item No. 12, "Time slot for regular meetings." In the past we have had the time slot on Tuesdays when the Senate rises but, as in this case, not before 4:00 p.m. Would that be agreeable to the members of the committee?
Senator Petten: Must we go to the Victoria Building? Could we not stay in the main building?
Senator Rossiter: This is a great place!
The Chairman: Your chairman will seek the views of individual senators. I will go with what democracy suggests. We will try to please the greatest numbers.
Senator Rossiter: Sometimes it is predicated on where we can get a room. That was the problem last time.
Senator Jessiman: Do we have this room now? Is it slated so that the committee has this room at this time?
The Chairman: Yes.
Senator Jessiman: We should take it now, then.
The Chairman: Your suggestion will be taken under advisement.
Senator De Bané: It is certainly better than the room that we had before, which was inside and had no windows.
The Chairman: Yes, room 520 is not a good room. Are there any other matters?
Senator Jessiman: You left out Item No. 7. You said that we have nothing to report. Did we not spend anything in the last session?
The Chairman: No, there was nothing to report. During that time, witnesses expenses were covered by the full committees group and coffee and tea, what little we drank, was also covered by the same group. In effect, we did not have any expenses. We are one of the most frugal committees that the Senate has -- in fact, we are the most frugal committee within Parliament. We should congratulate ourselves.
Senator Rossiter: Do you not have to report that there is no report?
The Chairman: Apparently, we do not have to report.
I understand what you are saying. It would be nice to report to the Senate that we are such a frugal committee.
Senator De Bané: I should like to propose a motion of deep appreciation to your predecessor, who presided over the committee in a professional and non-partisan way.
The Chairman: So moved.
Senator Petten: I wish to second that motion.
The Chairman: I see all heads nodding in the affirmative; that makes it unanimous.
As chairman, I am allowed to vote on that as well. As a new, incoming chairman, I should like to thank Senator Rossiter for the work that she has been doing for the past five years now. We deeply appreciate everything that you have done and the manner in which you have done it. Thank you very much.
Senator Rossiter: Thank you.
The Chairman: Is there anything else that members would like to bring before the committee?
Senator Jessiman: If we are to meet the following Tuesday, do we know what we will have on the agenda? Do you have any idea?
The Chairman: Perhaps you could make suggestions to me and I will bring it up with the steering committee. The steering committee will then make proposals to the committee.
At the present time, we do not have an order of reference. That is one of the things that we might wish to get. You can assume that there are two important bills coming down the road some time, namely, the Oceans Act and the Fisheries Act. The Oceans Act will be at report stage in the House of Commons and the Fisheries Act is in the early stages. These are two important bills that will coming over to us. However, there may be other areas that we wish to look at.
Senator Jessiman has expressed interest in the past about looking more at the west coast and inland waters as well.
Senator Jessiman: On a non-partisan basis, what is the position of the present legislation that we all passed -- and we passed it as well -- namely that we now have jurisdiction beyond the 200-mile limit? That caused a problem with the European community. Should we be looking at that, or should we let sleeping dogs lie because we have it? I am not taking sides on this, but would it be diplomatic to say, "It served its purpose. We went beyond our jurisdiction." Should we leave it there?
Senator Petten: I should like to think about it for a while. Off the top of my head I would say no, let it lie there. I do not have to tell you gentlemen what happened. We passed it right away and the pirate ships were gone. But we still had a problem with our Spanish cousins, friends, or whatever. They never believed that we would address it. When we did, we cut the nets. That was the only way we could get it before the United Nations. The Spaniards are still mocking us a little bit.
Senator Jessiman: It is not a long bill. We passed legislation that if something happens, we have the right to go beyond the 200-mile limit. I do not know how that sits in the United Nations or in the fishing community around the world.
The Chairman: We are taking note of that. The steering committee will include it in the hopper when we start to evaluate some of the areas that we might want to touch upon.
Please do not hesitate to grab the phone and call either myself or the deputy chairman at any time to include these kinds of items and how we can look at them. We will be returning to the whole committee with these suggestions as well.
Senator Jessiman: Has Senator Perrault sat before on this committee? I know that he is from the west coast.
Senator Petten: Yes.
Senator Jessiman: He is very knowledgeable. They have problems out there also.
The Chairman: To return to what you said a few minutes ago, Senator Jessiman, concerning the straddling stocks, the International Meeting of the Inter-Parliamentary Union, which will be meeting in Istanbul next month, has as one of its main debate items the whole question of conservation of stocks, the protection of fishery stocks as worldwide food conservation, and a whole bunch of other items dealing with the protection of fish.
Senator Jessiman: I was asked to go but because of a medical problem I could not do so. Is anyone from the committee attending the meeting?
The Chairman: No. However, one person who may be asked to talk on the issue will be Senator Forrestall, who is very knowledgeable in fisheries. He has been asked to present Canada's side.
It was a joint recommendation by Spain and Canada to include this as an item to be debated way the full IPU.
Senator Jessiman: We should certainly try to get the transcript of that part of the meeting.
The Chairman: Yes. It will be available.
Senator Jessiman: It will be translated into English, will it not?
The Chairman: Yes. Senator Forrestall, who knows the fishery quite well, will make the presentation there.
Senator Jessiman: Perhaps he can come here to talk to us also.
The Chairman: Yes. Are there any other matters?
Senator Landry: What do we get involved in: Quotas or conservation?
The Chairman: Those would be the kinds of suggestion that we would like to hear from you, Senator Landry. As a committee member, in what would you like to see this committee get involved? It could be lobsters, shellfish, the east coast or the west coast.
Senator Landry: Protection for lobster has been passed. P.E.I. was strongly against that conservation measure.
The Chairman: You mean the hole to allow the lobsters to escape?
Senator Landry: Yes, the escape mechanism. Crab quotas are also coming.
The Chairman: These are all things that you can talk to us about.
Senator Landry: Should the inshore have quotas? The MFU, the union organization, did it last year in a way that not too many people were happy. It was not democratic any more. The union took the whole inshore quota and sold them wherever they wanted. The fisherman was not allowed to sell his own crab to an individual, as is the case with the rest of the species. It was all sold through the MFU. They ended up with $4 or $5 million profit from that.
The Chairman: That might be an area to explore.
We are taking notes about what you said. That will go into some of the ideas that we want to get from committee members.
Senator Jessiman: Do we know anything about the effect of fishing as a result of the P.E.I. bridge and what has happened now? It is not complete yet, but lot of concerns were raised when it was announced that it was to be constructed. They have put some extensions there now. Has that had any effect on the fishery?
Senator Rossiter: It is being monitored, but there is nothing definite yet. This is the first winter that it has been in operation.
Senator Jessiman: When does that open?
Senator Rossiter: In May, 1997.
The Chairman: The researcher is making notes on all the suggestions to date.
Senator Rossiter: I hope that we will do something about the west coast. For the last couple of years we have been concentrating on the east coast.
The Chairman: That is right. In the past few years, we have looked a lot at the east coast. In fairness to the west coast --and, with Senator Perrault as deputy chair -- we will begin to look at the west coast. I think you will find that the committee is quite agreeable to that.
Senator Jessiman: Have they solved all their problems with the United States yet?
The Chairman: No. There may be ways for us to become more informed about what is happening out there. There is also the whole vast area that we have not looked at in a long time, namely, the inland fisheries. That is another area of interest.
There are no lack of areas for us to start looking at. The big trick will be to try to limit our scopes.
Senator Jessiman: Perhaps we should read that report again.
The Chairman: If there is nothing else, I will entertain a motion for adjournment.
Senator Rossiter: I so move.
The Chairman: Carried.
The committee adjourned.