Proceedings of the Subcommittee on
Veterans Affairs
Issue 12 - Evidence
OTTAWA, Tuesday, November 17, 1998
The Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs of the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology met this day at 9:30 a.m. to continue its study of the state of health care in Canada concerning veterans of war and Canadian Service persons, and to discuss future business.
Senator Orville H. Phillips (Chairman) in the Chair.
[English]
The Chairman: Honourable senators, the first item on our agenda is the election of a deputy chairman. Senator Cools was kind enough to fill in after the retirement of Senator Bonnell, and she did an excellent job during the hearings on the Canadian War Museum. She is now very busy with other committees, however and has requested that we find a new deputy chairman.
May I have nominations for that position, please?
Senator Cohen: It is my pleasure to nominate Senator Johnstone.
The Chairman: Are there other nominations?
Hearing none, Senator Johnstone is our new deputy chairman.
The Chairman: We submitted an interim report on health care. We will now proceed to complete it.
We have proposed visiting a number of the veterans care institutions. Those institutions were suggested by Veterans Affairs Canada, and include: Deer Lodge in Winnipeg, Colonel Belcher Lodge in Calgary, George Derby Lodge in Burnaby, Brock Farni Pavilion in Vancouver, and Broadmead Lodge in Victoria. We have since had a request from Parkwood Hospital Home in London, Ontario. I propose that we deal with the institutions suggested by Veterans Affairs Canada first.
Is it agreed, honourable senators, that we visit the five institutions I have just named?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: We received a letter from the institution in London, Ontario, asking us to visit them. I have left that open until we come to the budget consideration. The institution in London is fairly large -- it has 410 patients. It would be rather difficult for us to turn down that centre's request.
To keep expenses at a minimum, it is proposed that the chairman and the deputy chairman carry out the four visits next week. Our researcher, Mr. Grant Purves, would accompany us. Based on the suggestions we made in our interim report, we made up a list of points to be checked at each of the four institutions.
Is it agreed that the chairman and the deputy chairman carry out the visit next week?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: We will now turn to the budget.
The budget was drafted using two scenarios. First, if the whole committee were to travel, the cost would be $64,000. If only the chairman, the deputy chairman and the researcher were to travel, the cost would drop to $43,500. That is one of the reasons we wanted to keep the expenditures down as much as possible.
Senator Johnstone: Is Deer Lodge in the City of Winnipeg? Do you know its location?
The Chairman:It is not in the centre of the city, but it is within the city limits.
Senator Johnstone: Will there be visits to places other than London later on? I am wondering how that relates to today's budget.
The Chairman: London is included in the total budget.
Are there any questions on the budget for transportation and communications to Winnipeg, Calgary, Victoria and Vancouver? Air transportation is $12,000, ground transportation is $700, and hotel accommodations $2,400. There may be some economies with respect to the communications advisor and working meals. That money might not be spent, but we may have to buy our lunches and dinners.
Senator Cohen: Could you explain the per diem to me, please? I am not familiar with that.
The Chairman: On any trip there is a per diem for expenses such as gratuities and things of that nature. This is the standard committee rate. We have not exaggerated it.
As the budget now stands, it provides for the full committee to go to London. It would cost $8,580 if the entire committee went. The cost would be reduced considerably if only the chair and deputy chair were to go.
What is your wish in that regard, honourable senators?
Senator Cohen: The two senators who are travelling to the other centres would have the continuity to go to London. Adding more senators would be futile. We have faith in the two senators to report back to us.
The Chairman: Is that satisfactory to you, Senator Johnstone?
Senator Johnstone: Yes.
The Chairman: In that case, we can reduce the cost from $8,500 to about $5,000.
The Chairman: The committee has usually visited Veterans Affairs in Charlottetown, and that visit usually has an open agenda. In the past, we have met with the deputy minister. We have then broken it down into various sections, and dealt with issues such as health care and the adjudication process.
We usually ask for figures on the number of people applying for pensions, and the breakdown in the rate for various diseases, such as arthritis and hearing loss. That also gives us a chance to complain about issues such as post-traumatic stress syndrome, which is slowly beginning to be recognized.
We also meet with the Veterans Review and Appeal Board to discuss their procedures, the number of cases they have heard, the number they have granted, et cetera. In the past, we have found it beneficial to raise complaints directly with the officials at that time. For that reason, I would like the full committee -- or anyone who has any questions to raise on procedure -- to accompany us to Charlottetown.
In the past, we have used travel points. I would be willing to use a travel point, as I am sure Senator Johnstone would, but in the past we have asked that our hotel bills be paid. I suggest that we leave that budget as it is with the understanding that anyone who wants to use travel points can do so.
Is that agreed, honourable senators?
Senator Johnstone: Is Charlottetown included in the overall budget we are discussing?
The Chairman: Yes.
What is the total budget for Charlottetown, including air fares, Ms Reynolds?
Ms Barbara Reynolds, Clerk of the Subcommittee: It is $14,050.
Senator Cohen: What are the dates for the meeting in Charlottetown?
The Chairman: That is the next point.
Is it agreed, honourable senators, that the budget stand as it is, with the understanding that we would appreciate the contribution of points?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: When would be a suitable time to go to Charlottetown? The Veterans Affairs officials are willing to meet with us at any time, and on short notice.
Senator Cohen: Does it have to be before the first of the year?
The Chairman: I would like it to be before the first of the year. As you are aware, Senator Cohen, there is an omnibus bill on veterans' legislation coming in. I would like the newer members of the committee in particular to have a chance to meet with Veterans Affairs officials at Charlottetown before that bill is introduced, and that could happen at the end of this month.
The Chairman: The Senate adjourns for the Christmas break on December 11. Would anyone be willing to attend after December 11?
Senator Cohen: I would.
Senator Johnstone: I would.
Senator Ruck: I would be interested in attending.
The Chairman: It will be the week of December 14, then. I will arrange a date with the deputy minister.
I will take this budget to the main committee when it meets at 9:30.
I understand that the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration insists that each budget provide for a communications advisor, and we have included $1,000 for that. However, I am hoping that the committee on Internal Economy will allow us to issue this press release rather than spending $1,000 on a communications advisor.
Is it agreed that I try to persuade the Internal Economy Committee to accept this press release?
Hon. Senators: Yes.
The Chairman: The next item to discuss is the steering committee. Senator Cools was on the steering committee, and is willing to remain on it. Normally, Senator Johnstone would automatically replace her.
Is it agreed that Senator Cools occupy the third position on the steering committee, although it would normally consist of two government members and one opposition member?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Our study was supposed to have been completed in December, but we will not be able to complete it by then. Is it agreed, honourable senators, that I move a motion in the Senate asking for an extension?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: With my research budget, I will probably hire some help to complete the draft report. We may ask you to come back for a day during the recess, particularly if we have a new session beginning in February. We should have the report completed before a new session begins.
Finally, I received a film on the veterans' charter from Mr. Chadderton of the National Council of Veterans Associations. I had thought it might be helpful for the committee to view that. I viewed the film last evening, however, and I find that it is more for younger people, which I appreciate very much. It deals with items such as the Veterans Land Act and other issues that are passé today. It does not deal with the hospitalization issue in which we are interested.
For that reason, I suggest that we cancel this afternoon's meeting. Is that agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Is it also agreed that we bring our budget to the main committee?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: There being no further items on the agenda, the meeting is adjourned.
The committee adjourned.