Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration
Issue 3 - Evidence for June 27, 2000
OTTAWA, Tuesday, June 27, 2000
The Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration met this day at 11:00 a.m.
Senator Rompkey (Chairman) in the Chair.
[English]
The Chairman: I call the meeting to order. Senator DeWare?
Senator DeWare: Honourable senators, last week your budget committee met to review the budget on the new committee that had been formed on drugs. All the other committees had been looked after. Since they would like to get started and they have part of their agenda set out for the summer and the fall, we decided to hear them.
We reviewed their budget. As you know, we were quite strict with all the other budgets and asked the committees to find some money somewhere. We had to do the same thing with the committee on drugs. They presented us a budget of $201,362 and we did not feel it was in excess of what they planned to do. A lot of their budget is for research. However, we asked them to see if they could fine-tune it a little. They did and the budget committee approved $170,062 for the fiscal year. We can break it down, if you want.
Senator Maheu: This fiscal year, until next March?
Senator DeWare: Yes. Some of it would be for research that should be done first. It is a three-year budget, or two and a half years, but the research part of it will all take place within the next year. Basically, that is the majority of it.
The Chairman: What is before us is a proposal from the budget subcommittee to allocate $170,000 over the next fiscal year to the committee studying the drug issue.
Senator DeWare: The committee presented probably the most comprehensive budget that we had seen to date. They did it in phases. They showed us the four phases and how it will be developed. The committee was quite impressed. A lot of work went into it. All the details were there for us to look at. There was nothing about which you would say, "This is what we think." This is not what they think, this is what they know must be done. Besides the research part of it, each of the senators on the committee is also responsible for their own research out of their own budget to help bring this budget along.
Senator Robichaud: Altogether, how much will that cost over the three or four years?
Senator Nolin: If I may answer that question, it was impossible for us to come up with an exact figure on that. I could have told you $1 million or $700,000. We do not know about the travel component of the committee. We know where the information could be. It could be in Washington, in Amsterdam or in Sydney, or it could be accessible here, in Ottawa, through teleconference. We do not know about that component, which is a huge component of a budget. We will know more about that when the first canvass about the information occurs and when the best person to testify about that information is identified. We will know more at that time, and then we will present a travel budget.
For now, this is more a staffing budget. We need to start to canvass and gather that information and to communicate that information. The number of requests by the media on the subject is immense. When you look at the history of prohibition, you will see that lack of information and people using the wrong information were the trademarks of that issue. The media are there and they want valid and credible information. It is up to us to provide that information and to make it available.
In the budget and in the work plan that was presented to the subcommittee, we explained the work plan and the steps that we want to go through. Also, there is the research program, which is probably the biggest component of it. We are asking for one PY, one person to be the head of research. As Senator DeWare mentioned, it is a small committee -- only five members will be part of that committee -- and each senator will have to provide a research effort from his or her own global budget.
Senator Robichaud: Or borrow from someone else.
Senator DeWare: For themselves -- that is, for their own personal researchers.
Senator Robichaud: It is the same thing. It is the same difference.
Senator Nolin: Since we had the luxury of time, we also canvassed the support of the departments. We received support and they have offered their help. We have been able to minimize the cost to the Senate. We will use research support from three departments and from the library.
Senator Robichaud: I am starting to have problems here. If we are to approve at the very last minute whatever amount it is to do a further study, how much more money we will need, I feel that I am being sort of ratcheted to the next level. I do not like that.
Senator Nolin: No. When you present a budget on your committee, for example, on the Fisheries Committee, you know where you need to go when you are preparing your budget. We do not know that.
Senator DeWare: That will not be in this year's budget.
The Chairman: All we are being asked to approve now is $170,000 for this fiscal year, with no strings attached.
Senator Robichaud: I know that, Chairman, but once we approve this, there are a lot of strings attached. We cannot turn back. After we get the results, if that committee has to travel to Amsterdam, to Australia, to Myanmar, or wherever, then we cannot turn around and say, "We will cut you off at the pass."
The Chairman: No, but at that time they will have to compete with other requests for funding from other committees. They will have to compete for funding from other committees at that time, right?
Senator Nolin: Of course.
Senator DeWare: When we did our budget outlook this year, we knew that the drug committee would be approved. We tentatively structured $200,000 in the budget. We also had a contingency part to the budget. Thus, we had money structured in there waiting for the committee to present their budget to us. Basically, we knew it would be quite high. We knew that research does not come easily. There is only $17,000 in the budget this year for travel.
Senator Nolin: No, it is less than that.
Senator DeWare: There is $12,000 for travel because one of these researchers may have to go to Washington or we may have to go somewhere.
Senator Milne: Senator DeWare has just answered my first question, namely, what would this do to the present Senate budget. Obviously, that has already been taken care of.
My next question arises from what Senator Nolin said about the media and the fact that there are so many requests coming in from the media and that we have to talk to the media. Do we normally do this with Senate studies while they are ongoing?
Senator DeWare: Yes.
Senator Milne: Do you talk to the media before the senators have even heard what is going on?
Senator Nolin: Of course we talk to the media. We do not want to keep the media uninformed, because they will inform the public, with or without our support.
Because there was no rigor in terms of the transfer of information in the past, we imposed on ourselves an obligation to provide to the media rigorous, credible, valid information. That is why we are informing the media. As I have said, the requests for information have been great.
Senator Milne: If that is so, then I hope you will keep the rest of the Senate informed, at least on the same basis as the media.
Senator Nolin: Yes, of course.
The Chairman: If there are no further comments, senators, the request is before us. It is a recommendation from the budgets subcommittee that $170,000 be allocated for this fiscal year to the drug study.
Is it agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: The motion is carried.
Senator DeWare: I should like to turn now to the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry. When we were going through budgets, there was a forestry study and an agriculture study. We cut out the agriculture study and went forward with the forestry study. However, we did not allow some sundry money for the Agriculture Committee. They are asking for $1,500 to be included in the budget for perhaps meals or periodicals or something that they need. We want to put $1,500 back into that budget. That has been approved by the budgets subcommittee.
The Chairman: If there are no questions or comments, is it agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
The committee continued in camera.