Proceedings of the Standing Committee on
Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration
Issue 2 - Evidence for October 31, 2002
OTTAWA, Thursday, October 31, 2002
The Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration met this day at 9:02 a.m. to consider administrative and other matters.
Senator Lise Bacon (Chairman) in the Chair.
[English]
The Chairman: This morning, we have administrative matters on our agenda. We will begin with a presentation by Mr. Bélisle concerning the Senate long-term accommodation strategy update, followed by questions.
[Translation]
Mr. Paul C. Bélisle, Clerk of the Committee: During this portion of the meeting which is open to the public, you will hear about the short-term and long-term plans for renovations to buildings that make up the Parliamentary Precinct. Mr. Tessier and Mr.Mathieu will be making the presentation.
[English]
Before we go into that, I should like to inform you that there are two committees in existence that look after the long-term accommodation for the parliamentary precincts. Both of them were created by the Minister of Public Works and Government Services. The first one, created in October 2002, is the Parliamentary Precinct Oversight Advisory Committee, PPOAC. I mention this because it will give you an idea of who is putting these projects forward, and much of it comes from the two committees. The PPOAC was created to provide the minister with the independent oversight and advice on matters relating to the implementation of a long-term vision and plan for the parliamentary precinct. The minister had written to the Senate and asked that there be a representative on this committee. Previously, there was a committee similar to this one — to look at the long-term vision — on which Senator Carstairs and Senator Rompkey sat as representatives. This time, they wanted to have no stakeholders or representatives sitting on the committee. Therefore, Mr. Pierre Tessier, Manager of Accommodation, Planning and Project, has been appointed as liaison to this committee.
The other committee is called the Design Review Board. Mr. Tessier will tell you about one of the major projects, which is a new building called the Bank Street Building, which will accommodate some 39 Senate offices. Again, the Minister of Public Works and Government Services has asked the Senate to send a representative to sit on the board of this advisory committee. That person is Senator Rompkey.
There are two committees looking at short-term and long-term accommodation of the parliamentary precinct. I will let Mr. Tessier do his presentation.
Mr. Pierre Tessier, Manager, Accommodation, Planning and Project, Parliamentary Precinct Oversight Advisory Committee: Honourable senators, my presentation will be in three parts. First, I will go over the key events that brought us to the long-term vision and plan; second, I will give you a brief overview of the vision and plan itself; and third, I will give you a description of the major projects underway right now in the Senate precinct.
In 1999, Public Works approached the Senate to prepare an accommodation plan for the next 25 years. The Senate proceeded with the establishment of strategic principles that would serve as the guidelines for the Senate long-term accommodation strategy. The key principles were: that all senators be located north of Wellington Street; that a standard senator's office space be a three-room office complex of 80 square meters; and that all committee rooms be located north of Wellington Street. With those principles in hand, we proceeded to prepare the long-term strategy, which was tabled and adopted by this committee in December 1999. The Senate strategy was presented in March 2000 to the Parliamentary Building Advisory Committee, PBAC, chaired by John Fraser, with members representing all stakeholders — the Senate, the House of Commons, the Library of Parliament and the National Capital Commission.
The role of this advisory committee was to recommend to the Minister of Public Works and Government Services a course of action for the renovations of the Parliament buildings over the next 25 years. Initially, Senator Carstairs, followed by Senator Rompkey, represented the Senate. They were instrumental in assuring that the Senate requirements were at the forefront of discussions and at report stage.
Using the stakeholders' reports as a basis and their own evaluation of the condition of the buildings, Public Works tabled the long-term vision and plan for the parliamentary precinct in April 2001. In May 2001, PBAC presented their report to the minister with recommendations. One of those recommendations was that all parliamentarians be located north of Wellington Street.
I will draw your attention to the presentation board that shows us a new boundary for the parliamentary precinct. It is the first time in history that a geographical boundary has been defined for Parliament Hill. The east boundary is the Rideau Canal; the north boundary is the Ottawa River; the south boundary is Wellington Street; and Kent Street is the west boundary.
The long-term vision and plan will stretch over a period of 25years, and it is divided into five phases. The first phase started last year, 2001, and will end in 2007. Highlighted areas on the presentation board indicate the interventions that are to take place in the precinct during the course of that period. The Library of Parliament is already under renovation. The Victoria Building, which we will see in more detail later on in the presentation, will undergo a major refit. There will be a refit of the outside facade of the East Block and, most important, a new construction at the corner of Bank and Wellington Streets.
In the second phase, we will see three major interventions: An infill will be constructed between the Confederation Building and the Justice Building to accommodate offices for Members of Parliament; the West Block will be completely vacated; and a temporary House of Commons chamber will be constructed in the infill. At the same time, construction will occur in the East Block infill to serve as a temporary chamber for the Senate.
That brings us to phase three, at which time the entire Centre Block will be vacated at once. During that period, as mentioned in phase two, the House of Commons will operate its chamber from the West Block and the Senate from the East Block. The Library of Parliament and the Peace Tower will remain operational during that period.
In phase 4, the Confederation Building will undergo a major refit inside and out, as will the 1867 wing of the East Block.
In phase 5, there will be an expansion of the Centre Block utility service unit, which is underground on the northwest side of the building.
[Translation]
I would now like to provide you with more detailed information on the major projects that have already been undertaken at the Senate in the past year or so. According to Public Works' long-term plan, the Victoria Building is to be used by the Senate of the next 20 years. It will house committee rooms and primarily operational support staff. The building was in need of immediate renovations for safety reasons and because of operating costs.
If we take a quick look at the actual space in question, you will see that rooms 505 and which 705 currently used for committee meetings will be relocated to the ground floor. The building will be divided into three clearly defined areas: a public area, an administrative area and a parliamentary area. At the building's Wellington Street entrance, the security desk will be upgraded for the purpose of doing visitor security checks. Senators and their staff will have direct access to the elevators and to their offices without having to pass through the security check. Committee rooms will be accessed directly from the security desk. The two meeting rooms will share a common foyer. The layout you see here is that of a traditional committee room.
We have also drawn up plans for different possible layouts based on the wishes of the chairs. We are considering a raised seating area for the public to ensure a better view of the proceedings. The building's second floor will also undergo major renovations with a view to consolidating all Senate security services on the same floor. The basement which houses the Senate workout room as well as the lockers of male and female Senate staff will also undergo some renovations. The ground floor will be a public area, the second floor, an administrative area and floors three through nine, a parliamentary area.
Another large-scale project is the consolidation of operational support services currently located in three different buildings, namely the Victoria Building, the Chambers Building and the City Centre, further west on Wellington Street. These 6,000 square feet of office space will be relocated to 45 Sacré-Coeur in Hull, that is to the building that formerly housed the Queen's Printer.
This brings us to a third major project, with construction set to begin in November and wrap up in January. It involves the construction of a prototype of a senator's office on the third floor of the East Block.
The long-term plan calls for the Senate to be the sole occupant of the East Block. We have asked Public Works to convert space in this building into parliamentary offices as soon as possible, as offices are vacated. The view here is of the south facade of the third floor overlooking Wellington Street. The west facade overlooks the main lawn of the Centre Block. The area marked off is the prototype zone. Seen here is a design concept for a hallway and for senator offices.
Do not pay too much attention to colour choices for furnishings and the like, as this is merely a design concept. The important thing to note is that the building's original architecture has been preserved, including beams and brick and stone walls. The hardwood floors will be set off by scatter rugs.
Here you see another view of the area housing senator offices, including the reception area and support staff offices.
Basically, each unit will be comprised of three offices. The senator's office will have a private entrance, as well as an entrance providing access to the reception area and support staff. A third office with direct outside access will be for a researcher. If a senator has no need for this third office, it could be taken over by other senators who require additional staff. This will give us greater flexibility as we move through the process. That concludes my presentation.
Senator Bacon: Thank you, Mr. Tessier.
[English]
The Chairman: Before we start with questions this morning, at the last meeting, when I had the honour to be elected as your chair, Senator Kroft was absent. Although I paid tribute to him then, this morning I want to take this opportunity to thank him for all he has done while he was the Chair of the Internal Economy Committee during the last session.
During his tenure, he worked very hard for the benefit and reputation of the Senate. Among his achievements are Bill C-28, the renovation of buildings and the increase in senators' living expenses in the NCR.
Again, thank you, Senator Kroft, for a magnificent job.
Hon. Senators: Hear, hear!
The Chairman: Any questions for Mr. Tessier, senators?
[Translation]
Senator Prud'homme: I have a profound sense of attachment for Parliament Hill. I have spent most of my life here. I note that a committee was struck and for the first time, it was deemed preferable not to have a Senate representative on the committee. It has always been my impression that where developments on the Hill are concerned, the Senate should always be represented. That has always been my position and it will continue to be thus.
[English]
It is not enough to say there will be a senator. I am calling on honourable senators for reflection if no decision is taken. We need someone who has a feeling for the institution, a feeling for the building and a feeling for what this is all about. We need someone who has a feeling for this, who can easily work with anyone and report back to his colleagues. That is number one.
Would you kindly put years down? Perhaps I have been here too long, 40 years, but I heard about plans in the other chamber in 1976. It seems that they are the same ones represented differently. So that we are very clear in what you are about to ask us to do, can you tell us who will move and when?
You do not mention any years. You say, ``We will do this,'' but the years are not as important.
[Translation]
The Chairman: I will ask Mr. Bélisle to respond first, and then Mr. Tessier can go next.
[English]
Mr. Bélisle: As to the Parliamentary Precinct Oversight Advisory Committee, as I mentioned at the beginning, there is a representative of the Senate, but it is not a senator. It used to be Senator Carstairs, then it was Senator Rompkey. Nevertheless, Mr. Tessier can tell you about the composition, as it is the equivalent of Mr. Tessier from the House of Commons, the equivalent of Mr. Tessier from the Library of Parliament who sits on that committee as liaison person.
However, to ensure the continuity at the parliamentary level, Senator Rompkey continues to oversee the implementation of the long-term strategic plan for accommodation.
Mr. Tessier: My role with Mr. Fraser's committee is strictly as a liaison person who will serve as contact for the Senate. As Mr. Bélisle mentioned, Senator Rompkey will continue to oversee the long-term plan. Each institution will have to go through its own governance delegation of authority in order to make decisions that will be reported back to this committee.
A parliamentarian was on the first committee and not on the second because the first committee was reporting recommendations to the Minister of Public Works and Government Services on a course of action. Therefore, parliamentarians were important on that committee.
The role of this new committee is strictly to look after the implementation of the plan that has already been approved by this house and the House of Commons.
As for the schedule, I draw your attention to the plans. Phase 1 will occur between 2001 and 2007. Phase 2 will be between 2008 and 2011.
Once the Bank Street building is built, the offices of the 39senators in the Victoria building will be closed and the senators will move into the Bank Street building.
Senator Prud'homme: One of the great injuries in English is when we refer to members of Parliament. In French, there is no confusion; it is ``deputé or sénateur.'' When you refer to members of Parliament, do you refer to members of the House of Commons?
Mr. Tessier: Yes.
Senator Prud'homme: Could we try to stick to that in English?
Mr. Tessier: Of course.
Senator Prud'homme: It is confusing. It is not your fault, however; it has been happening for 20 years.
There was a big meeting last night. Nine members of Parliament were present, plus four senators. It is enough to drive you crazy, because we are all parliamentarians.
Will you show us exactly where the senators will be in phase 1, first?
Mr. Tessier: Yes. In phase 1, senators remain in the Centre Block, the East Block and the Victoria Building. In phase 2, after construction of the Bank Street building, 39 new offices will open at the corner of Bank and Wellington Street. There will still be senators in the East Block and Centre Block. In phase 3, when the Centre Block closes, there will be senators in the East Block and the Bank Street building with an overflow from the Centre Block. Public Works has not yet determined where all senators will be during phase 3. We have another 10 years to work on those issues.
As I mentioned earlier, the Victoria Building will remain part of the precinct for the next 20 years and may serve at one point as swing space for some projects. The principle remains that all parliamentarians be on the north side of Wellington.
Senator Prud'homme: The plan for 2012 to 2016 is an amendment to the plan that I had a year ago. I am in the Centre Block, and I was supposed to move out in 2007. That means it has been delayed?
Mr. Tessier: Yes. The big difference between the other reports that you alluded to earlier, like the 1976 report and the 1991 report from Public Works, is that they were on paper, and will remain on paper, and this one is already started. It is happening.
Senator Stratton: I have a question for the well-being of people on the Hill. There are at present workout rooms in the Victoria Building on the lower level? Is there a workout room in the West Block?
Mr. Tessier: Not at this time. At this time, there is only the workout room in the Victoria Building.
Senator Stratton: Just the Victoria Building. Are there any plans in the future for workout rooms? A younger generation will be coming along, and they will virtually demand that there be workout space. I know some of us would like to pay for it ourselves, find a room to put in a treadmill just to get a workout. We would rather pay for it ourselves. Are there plans in the works to include spaces for future MPs and senators for workouts?
Mr. Tessier: Not in this plan, although this committee can raise the issue.
Senator Prud'homme: You are flexible?
Mr. Tessier: We are here to serve, and we will do it to the best of our ability.
Currently, there are three exercise rooms on the Hill. Two are on the House of Commons side. The one for members of the House is in the Confederation Building and the one for protective services is in the Wellington Building. There is only one on the Senate side. It is in the Victoria building.
[Translation]
Senator Robichaud: You have talked a great deal about office space for Hill employees. I am certain that you have given some thought to parking. Is it not true that an underground parking garage will be located west of the West Block?
Mr. Tessier: In addition to the long-term plan now being implemented, there is a series of issues not addressed in this plan, parking being one of them. I am actively involved with working committees looking into issues such as access to the Parliamentary Precinct, parking and security. These issues were not identified in the long-term plan, but they are nevertheless very important in terms of defining the operations of the Parliamentary Precinct.
A total of 300 underground parking spaces will be located under the Bank Street building, replacing parking that will be relocated to make way for the retrofitting of the various buildings.
When the building linking the Confederation and Justice buildings is constructed, provision will also be made for underground parking.
The Chairman: These 300 parking spaces replace existing spots. Does that mean that there will no longer be any parking at the Victoria Building?
Mr. Tessier: That is correct.
The Chairman: How many spots are there at the Victoria Building?
Mr. Tessier: Currently, there are 39 parking spots.
The Chairman: Will we continue to have access to the parking located behind the Justice Department building? People have complained on a number of occasions that the lighting is inadequate and that the lot is unsafe in the evening. Several disturbing incidents have occurred in the past. People are somewhat afraid to make their way to the automobiles.
Mr. Tessier: All aspects of the parking issue will be addressed. Earlier, I talked about the boundaries of the Parliamentary Precinct. Another project, the Judicial Precinct project, is also being carried out in conjunction with the initial plan. A new Federal Court building is slated for construction at the corner of Lyon and Wellington. The new judicial quadrangle will be annexed to the Parliamentary Precinct, with Kent Street serving as the boundary between the two precincts.
At present, most of the parking spaces on Parliament Hill are located west of Kent Street in the Justice Department complex. We are working with Justice Department officials to come up with options that can be submitted in the near future to each institution in so far as parking and traffic flow within the Parliamentary Precinct are concerned.
The Chairman: I would like to come back for a moment to the issue of the workout rooms. These rooms will be important to future generations and we need to take a good look at this whole area.
Mr. Tessier: The program is set and the national competition for the Bank Street building has been launched. However, we will go through a similar exercise when the time comes to set down an operational program for the East and West Blocks. The Senate will be free then to recommend facilities necessary to ensure the smooth running of operations.
[English]
Senator Prud'homme: I am sorry to take the floor. I have spent hundreds of hours on this issue in the other chamber. There are all kinds of reports out there, involving a big dream, and the dream is still there. It started with former Minister of Public Works McIlraith in the 1960s, and it has not stopped since. There are people who are determined to make every car disappear from Parliament. That would involve a big debate. As much as people want to be to say, ``Don't worry, there will be plenty of parking for senators, especially underground,'' it will never be as convenient as the few that we have now.
I know I am tiresome on this issue, but it is with a view towards protecting those who will come after us and those of us who will get older. That dream is there. It is a secret entente, that someday, when we adjourn for six months, we will come back and this initiative will have been taken in our absence. Nobody will know how it came about but will think the whole group had decided it, so it is all right.
Of course, there are so many little things that could be done on the Hill. It is annoying to know that hundreds of thousands of dollars have been spent to make an underground corridor between the East Block and the Centre Block, when twice they have bypassed Mackenzie King, who is still stuck in a hole with nothing around him. In Quebec City, people can easily walk around and see the statues of their Prime Ministers. Things have been done beautifully there. Here, people have to walk in the mud if they want to see Mackenzie King, because there is no path or marking stone. I have told this to Public Works, as well as to Mr. Beaudry and Mr. Gagliano. I took them with me around Parliament. We went to the back to find Lafontaine and Baldwin. Everybody is talking about it. I challenge anyone to go with me later and find them. I will go with a big, dark magic marker and I will redraw on it. If people think it is gravity, it is not. It has all disappeared. I asked when it would be done. It has been seven years. Hundreds of thousands of tourists go there. It is part of our history. It is a single monument in the back of the Senate, next to the Queen. We do not see anything any more. There is so much stuff there that explains the history of Upper and Lower Canada. Everyone says, ``Yes, it will be done,'' but you get no results. These are important details. That is why I say a senator or a member of the House, a parliamentarian, who has an understanding and a feeling for the institution, for the historical details, should get involved. That person could look into the possibility of bringing Mr. Louis Saint-Laurent back to the hill. I was not happy to see where the statue of Mr. Pearson was placed.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Is that a comment, Senator Prud'homme?
Senator Prud'homme: Yes.
The Chairman: I believe it has been duly noted by Mr. Tessier.
[English]
Senator Kroft: This has nothing to do with the planning and space elements, but when you move off into the details of the heritage elements, there was a committee established in the last session dealing with heritage and art aspects. There is no reason why things like proper designation of statues could not be referred to that committee. I think the mandate is probably broad enough to deal with it.
The Chairman: The steering committee will report at the next meeting on that, Senator Kroft. We intend to revive it.
Other questions, senators?
[Translation]
The Chairman: Thank you for your presentation, Mr. Tessier. We will get back to you if we have any further questions.
[English]
I need a motion to have the committee continue in camera.
Senator Stratton: I so move.
The committee continued in camera.