Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
National Security and Defence
Issue 1 - Evidence, February 4, 2004
OTTAWA, Wednesday, February 4, 2004
The Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence met this day at 4:00 p.m., pursuant to rule 88 of the Rules of the Senate, to organize the activities of the committee.
[English]
Ms. Barbara Reynolds, Clerk of the Committee: Honourable senators, as clerk of your committee, it is my duty to preside over the election of the chair. I am ready to receive motions to that effect.
Senator Day: I nominate Senator Kenny.
Ms. Reynolds: Are there any other motions?
It is moved by the Honourable Senator Day that Senator Kenny be the chair of this committee.
Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Ms. Reynolds: I declare the motion carried. In accordance with rule 88, the Honourable Senator Kenny is elected chair of this committee. I invite Senator Kenny to take the chair.
Senator Colin Kenny (Chairman) in the Chair.
The Chairman: Honourable senators, I am honoured to be re-elected and I thank you very much for your expression of support.
Honourable senators, next we have agenda item number 2, the election of a deputy chair.
Senator Meighen: I move the nomination of Senator Forrestall as deputy chair.
The Chairman: Is the motion carried?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried. I should like to congratulate you, Senator Forrestall.
We turn to item 3, the subcommittee on agenda and procedure.
Senator Banks: I move the motion contained in agenda item number 3.
The Chairman: We need a third person.
Senator Banks: According to the motion, there needs to be the "usual consultation." I am moving the motion set out on the proposed agenda before us.
The Chairman: Is it agreed, honourable senators, that agenda item number 3 be now adopted?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: The motion is carried.
Senator Banks: Can I move motions 4 through 12?
Ms. Reynolds: It is technically possible. However, it is probably better to go through them one at a time very quickly.
The Chairman: Item number 4 is next.
Senator Forrestall: Senator Banks will move it, but I am wondering how we made out last year with copies. Did we have enough French and English copies of the proceedings of the committee?
Ms. Reynolds: Yes, Mr. Chairman. We were monitoring constantly. We did not have too many additional copies left over at the end. Two hundred was a good number to use, and then we adjusted as needed.
Senator Forrestall: That is all I need to know. It is on the record.
Senator Banks: While we are asking questions, if I can use the colloquial term, are these the "normal" motions? None of these are new or have been changed?
Ms. Reynolds: These are regular motions, one that you would have done in other committees.
Senator Day: Except that, as I understand Ms. Reynolds' answer to Senator Forrestall, the number 200 is something that is monitored for our committee and is changeable. It is not, to that extent, boilerplate.
Senator Banks: What I was asking is whether these are the usual motions, whether there is anything unusual here.
Senator Forrestall: My point was that we are dealing with a short period of time here. We will be producing perhaps our most important, in terms of the villages and cities of Canada. We got into 40 cities and towns.
Senator Day: Eighty-six.
Senator Forrestall: It is quite a report. I think the impact will be profound, not the crest of the wave but deep down. My point is whether 200 is enough.
The Chairman: That is not the number of reports we will produce. We will produce 2,500 of those.
Senator Forrestall: I see.
The Chairman: The number we have is 1,500 English, 1,000 French.
Senator Forrestall: Thank you.
Senator Meighen: May I ask when we will set up the Veterans Affairs Committee?
The Chairman: Momentarily. It may not be on the list, but we will do it anyway.
It is your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt item number 4 on the agenda, the motion to print the committee's proceedings?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Item number 5 is the authorization to hold meetings, to print evidence. It is your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt item number 5?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: The motion is carried.
Item 6 is related to the financial report. Does someone want to move the motion?
Senator Forrestall: I so move.
The Chairman: It is moved, pursuant to rule 104, that the chair be authorized to report expenses incurred by the committee during the last session. They came to $446,372.00.
I notice that the Rules Committee came up with a terrific little report that said all the good things they did. Can we do that, too?
Ms. Reynolds: We will be doing that, in addition. These were just the numbers that will go into it. We include how many meetings, how many witnesses, how many hours.
The Chairman: How many hits?
Ms. Reynolds: Lots of good stuff. It also includes Veterans Affairs.
The Chairman: At $16,962. The Veterans Affairs Subcommittee is to be commended for how carefully they watch the purse.
May I have a motion, please?
Senator Banks: I move that item number 6, financial reports, be adopted?
The Chairman: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt item number 6?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Number 7, research staff.
Senator Atkins: I move item number 7.
The Chairman: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Motion 8, authority to commit fund and to certify accounts.
Senator Meighen: I move the adoption of item number 8.
The Chairman: Those in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Opposed?
Carried.
Item number 9 relates to travel.
Senator Forrestall: Having talked recently with my distinguished leader, travel is an interesting subject. It is the deputy chairmen's turn to travel this year.
The Chairman: There you are. Perhaps the deputy chair would like to move this motion then.
Senator Forrestall: I so move.
The Chairman: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt item number 9, relating to travel?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Senator Day: This is not inconsistent with Internal Economy rules?
Ms. Reynolds: No.
Senator Banks: Sorry, what did you say about vice-chairs?
Senator Forrestall: I was just kidding.
The Chairman: He said hit the road, Jack.
Senator Forrestall: Do you really want me to say that in public? We travel altogether too much. We should be cognizant of the amount of money we spend. He was also very impressed with the work that this committee has been doing.
The Chairman: You were very kind to say nice words today in the chamber. Thank you.
Number 10, designation of members travelling on committee business.
Senator Banks: I move agenda item number 10.
The Chairman: Those in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Opposed?
Carried.
The next item deals with travelling and living expenses by witnesses, item number 11.
Senator Meighen: I move item number 11.
The Chairman: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt item number 11?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Electronic media coverage of meetings is the next item on the agenda. It is agenda item number 12.
Senator Meighen: I move item number 12.
The Chairman: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
I hardly dare move the time slot.
May I have a motion to establish a Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs?
Senator Forrestall: So moved.
Senator Day: Consisting of how many?
The Chairman: Consisting of five persons.
Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt Senator Day's motion.
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Is this the time to elect a chair as well?
Ms. Reynolds: Your motion can include that. You can even name the members and the chair.
The Chairman: I should like to ask Senator Atkins if he would propose a name for chair, please.
Senator Atkins: I move that Senator Meighen be chair of the Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs.
The Chairman: Any other nominations?
Senator Meighen is acclaimed. Congratulations, senator.
The Chairman: My understanding is that everyone who was on the committee wishes to serve again on it — that is, Senators Day, Atkins, Meighen, Wiebe and myself. Senator Wiebe is not here.
To keep a balance between the two parties, it probably should be a Liberal.
Senator Atkins: I am an independent senator.
The Chairman: My question is whether the other Liberal in the room would like to be on the committee.
Senator Banks: Would it not be to the committee's advantage for Senator Munson to be on the subcommittee?
Senator Meighen: Then we would not have to hire a public relations consultant, would we?
The Chairman: Would honourable senators prefer to hold this last selection in abeyance until our next meeting? We could do that. We do not have to fill the full subcommittee.
Senator Banks: I just think Senator Munson would be very useful. He has some experience, not in committee work but in that area of endeavour.
The Chairman: I heard they needed a good accompanist.
Senator Banks: I will do as you wish.
The Chairman: You should have first shot at it, if you are interested.
Senator Banks: As member, we are all welcome anyway.
The Chairman: My motion is that the subcommittee consist of Senators Meighen, Banks, Atkins, Day and myself. Senator Forrestall will join us whenever the spirit moves him.
Is it agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator Atkins: If a deputy chair is required, I nominate Senator Day.
The Chairman: Any other nominations?
Nominations are closed. Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Senator Day is the deputy chair.
I am reminded by the clerk that there is customarily a steering committee, comprised of the chair, the deputy chair and the chair of the main committee.
May I have a motion to that effect, please?
Senator Banks: I so move, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: Is it agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: The steering committee for Veterans Affairs is made up of Senators Meighen, Kenny and Day.
Senator Atkins: Who is on the main committee?
The Chairman: The third person is yet to be named.
Senator Day: It is the chair, the deputy chair, and a person to be named after the usual consultations. That is what the motion says.
The Chairman: Let me do a consultation here.
Senator Day: Not wishing to upset the apple cart, the usual consultation is now taking place.
The Chairman: The usual consultations have taken place and I recognize Senator Forrestall.
Senator Forrestall: I am pleased to put forward the name of Senator Jane Cordy as the third member or the other member of the steering committee of this full committee.
The Chairman: Any other nominations?
There being none, is it your pleasure to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: There being none, Senator Cordy is the third member of the subcommittee on agenda and procedure of the main committee.
Senator Munson, this is a rare pleasure to welcome you to the committee. You were wise enough to miss all of the boilerplate issues and to arrive for the substance. Your timing is impeccable.
Senator Munson: That is the way it was in the PMO.
The Chairman: We will now move in camera.
The committee continued in camera.