Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Fisheries and Oceans
Issue 1 - Evidence - Meeting of February 11, 2004
OTTAWA, Wednesday, February 11, 2004
The Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans met this day at 6:45 p.m. for an organization meeting, pursuant to rule 88 of the Rules of the Senate.
[Translation]
Mr. Till Heyde (Clerk of the Committee): Honourable senators, it is my duty to preside over the election of the Chair.
[English]
Is there a motion for the election of the chair?
Senator Adams: I move that Senator Comeau be chair of the committee.
Mr. Heyde: Are there any other nominations, honourable senators?
Hearing none, it is moved by the Honourable Senator Adams that the Honourable Senator Comeau do take the chair of the committee.
Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Mr. Heyde: I invite Senator Comeau to take the chair.
Hon. Gerald J. Comeau (Chairman) in the Chair.
The Chairman: Thank you very much, colleagues. I look forward to continuing the work we have undertaken in the past. I appreciate everything that you have done to date and appreciate continuing to work with you.
We will go through the items of the agenda, starting first with the election of a deputy chair.
Senator Cochrane: I move that Senator Cook be deputy chair of the committee.
The Chairman: Is it agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Congratulations, Senator Cook. Glad to have you back.
The next motion reads: That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be composed of the chair, the deputy chair, and one other member of the committee, to be designated after the usual consultation; and that the subcommittee be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the committee with respect to its agenda, to invite witnesses and to schedule hearings.
Is there such a motion?
[Translation]
It is moved by Senator Robichaud.
Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Motion to print the committee's proceedings.
It is moved by the Honourable Senator Phalen:
That the committee print its proceedings and that the Chair be authorized to set the number to meet demand.
Is it the pleasure of the committee to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
[English]
Senator Phalen: Might I ask a question? What happened to the person we will elect?
The Chairman: For the steering committee?
Senator Phalen: Yes.
The Chairman: That is usually done in consultation with the leadership. That has been the standard procedure.
Senator Phalen: We skipped it and I did not know what happened.
The Chairman: The next item is number 5, authorization to hold meetings and to print evidence when a quorum is not present.
The motion is as follows: That, pursuant to rule 89, the chair be authorized to hold meetings, to receive and authorize the printing of the evidence when a quorum is not present, provided that a member of the committee from both the government and the opposition be present.
Senator Mahovlich: I so move, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: Is it agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: The next item is the financial report.
It is moved by the Honourable Senator Phalen that the committee adopt the draft first report, prepared in accordance with rule 104, and that the chair be authorized to make minor necessary changes.
Members of the committee, you have the first report before you. I will be presenting it to the chamber at the first opportunity.
Mr. Heyde: That would probably be next week some time.
The Chairman: Very good.
Is it agreed that item 6 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: I should note that all of these motions are standard. However, this committee has used a practice over the years to slightly change Motion No. 7, which, as you can read, is the standard motion with regard to research staff.
I suggest, if members are agreeable, that the first paragraph read something to this effect: That the committee ask the Library of Parliament to assign Claude Emery as research staff to the committee. Is that agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: The rest of the motion would stay as is, if that is agreeable.
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: We do not want to lose Claude now.
Welcome aboard, Claude. We will ensure that you are assigned to the committee.
Is it agreed that the motion carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: The next item is number 8, authority to commit funds and certify accounts, and it reads: That, pursuant to section 32 of the Financial Administration Act, authority to commit funds be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chair, and the clerk of the committee; and that, pursuant to section 34 of the Financial Administration Act, and guideline 3:05 of Appendix II of the Rules of the Senate, authority for certifying accounts payable by the committee be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chair and the clerk of the committee. Basically, one of the three would have signing authority. Is that agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Item 9: Travel.
It is moved by the Honourable Senator Adams:
That the committee empower the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure to designate, as required, one or more members of the committee, and/or such staff as may be necessary to travel on assignment on behalf of the Committee.
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
[English]
The Chairman: Item 10 concerns the designation of members travelling on committee business and reads: That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to determine whether any member of the committee is on official business for the purposes of paragraph 83(a) of the senators' attendance policy published in the Journals of the Senate on Wednesday, June 3, 1998, and consider any member of the committee to be on official business if that member is attending a function, event or meeting related to the work of the committee and/or making a presentation related to the work of the committee.
Senator Trenholme Counsell: I so move, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: Is it agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Item 11 concerns the travelling and living expenses of witnesses and reads: That pursuant to the Senate guidelines for witness expenses, the committee may reimburse reasonable travelling and living expenses for one witness from any one organization, and payment will take place upon application, but that the chair be authorized to approve expenses for a second witness should there be exceptional circumstances. We were able to use exceptional circumstances once or twice last year but, generally, we stick to the general rule.
Senator Watt: I so move, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: Is it agreed, honourable senators.
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Item 12 concerns electronic media coverage of public meetings and reads: That the chair be authorized to seek permission from the Senate to permit coverage by electronic media of its public proceedings with the least possible disruption of its hearings; and that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered to allow such coverage at its discretion.
Senator Cook: I so move, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: Is it agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Item 13 concerns the time slot for regular meetings and is for information purposes only.
Senator Trenholme Counsell: Is it possible to discuss this item?
The Chairman: Some members of the committee will leave shortly. I will discuss it with you at that time.
Senator Trenholme Counsell: I have not talked to other members of the committee, but ordinarily we are here from Monday night or Tuesday morning until Thursday night. Perhaps it is different now with the Senate sitting five days per week.
Are other time slots available? I do not know how the other members feel about this. Do the meetings need to be both nights?
The Chairman: Given that there are some committee changes, I will undertake, along with my clerk, to look again at all the possible time slots and report back to the committee as soon as possible.
We do that each time there is a change in committee structure and membership. I am certain that Wednesday afternoons will not be an option.
Senator Trenholme Counsell: Could we have one long meeting?
The Chairman: We have been doing that on Tuesday evenings. It is almost impossible to find two time slots in the course of one week for all practical purposes.
I will canvass the membership again. There might be enough changes or adjustments to accommodate another time slot. I will endeavour to find out.
Senator Cochrane: I agree with Senator Trenholme Counsell's comments. Night meetings are not for me, so I would appreciate an earlier time slot.
The Chairman: We will look at the possibilities and I will get back to you. Obviously, any decision will have to be with the consent of the leadership of both parties. I will seek out the leaders for their agreement. At the end of the day, it is up to them. The time slots are the prerogative of the leaders, or the whips, usually.
Senator Adams: I am on two committees. Each one sits at 7 p.m. We break early Wednesday afternoon, but one of my committee's never starts at 3:30 in the afternoon, although I do not know why that is. Perhaps the chairman or the leader chooses the time. The members of this committee should decide when we meet. Sometimes the chairman chooses the time. I wonder how the decision is made between the chairman and the committee? What will happen between the leaders and the chair of the committee? My other committee never starts at 3:30 in the afternoon. Sometimes I work from house adjournment at 3:30 p.m. until 7 p.m. when the committee starts. That is my concern.
Senator Phalen: Is there any possibility of meeting Wednesday afternoon at 4:00 p.m. when the Senate rises?
The Chairman: We looked at that some time ago and it was not possible. There was no agreement because we could not fit it in. It was decided that the committee would try to sit somewhat later, around 6 p.m., but we began to run into problems when the Senate sat until 6 p.m. or 7 p.m. or 8 p.m. on Wednesday evenings. This has been happening over the last three or four years.
At one time, Wednesday afternoons were sacrosanct for committee meetings. At 3:30 p.m. the Senate adjourned so that committees could get to work. That trend has been discontinued over the last few years.
Senator Robichaud: I must correct you, Mr. Chair. It was changed because the leadership had to consider government business before the Senate. That had to be done for different reasons. We do not sit on Mondays but we sit on Tuesdays. We had to stop by 6 p.m. because some committees were scheduled to meet. On Wednesdays, the chamber sat from 1:30 to 3:30 but ran out of time to consider all of its business. We would stand most of the items to Thursdays, but then everyone wanted to leave by 4:00 p.m. The time for doing business in the Senate became shorter and shorter.
The Chairman: I was not trying to attach blame, but it is a fact of life.
Senator Robichaud: Yes, that is right. I am sure the present leadership will try to accommodate 3:30 meetings but may not be able to do so all the time.
The Chairman: Now that we have completed the official part of the meeting, I suggest that we move in camera to consider future business and other matters. Is it agreed?
Senator Cook: I would like to make two points before we do that.
Senator Trenholme Counsell, the Fisheries Committee used to meet on Tuesday nights, but when we began the northern fishery study, which is about the time you came to the Senate, we started to sit two nights back to back. It has not always been the practice to meet Tuesday and Wednesday nights.
Mr. Chairman, you may want to investigate why we lost our Tuesday morning slot at 9:00. For a couple of years after I came to the Senate we had the Tuesday morning time slot.
Senator Robichaud: The problem is that some senators sit on different committees and ask for committees not to overlap so they can attend both. I suppose some accommodations were made for those reasons.
Senator Cook: We might review that time slot.
The Chairman: Senator Robichaud brought up an extremely interesting point. Our time slot was not 7 p.m. but rather ``when the Senate rises'' on Tuesdays. Eventually, because the Senate was sitting later and later, we had to choose a later hour.
Senator Cook: Could we look at returning to 6:15 p.m. rather than 7:00 p.m.?
The Chairman: Or when the Senate rises.
Senator Cook: Yes. That would make it easier for all.
The Chairman: We will see what happens. Let us leave the time slots as they are. I will see what is possible and then come back to the membership before going to the leaders. We need consent around this table before I ask the leaders for their consent.
Senator Phalen: I want to respond to Senator Cook. I have a committee meeting Tuesday morning.
The Chairman: We will discuss the details later.
Is it agreed that we proceed in camera to attend to future business?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The committee continued in camera.