Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 1 - Evidence
OTTAWA, Wednesday February 11, 2004
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day at 1 p.m. for an organization meeting, pursuant to rule 88 of the Senate.
[Translation]
The Clerk (Mr. Adam Thompson): As Clerk of the Committee, it is my duty to preside over the election of the Chair of this committee. I am ready to entertain a motion to that effect.
Senator Comeau: I move that Senator Chaput be elected to the Chair.
Senator Maheu: I second the motion.
The Clerk: It is moved by Senator Comeau, seconded by Senator Maheu, that the Honourable Senator Chaput do take the Chair of this committee.
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Mr. Thompson: I invite Senator Chaput to take the Chair.
The Honourable Maria Chaput (Chairman) presiding.
The Chairman: Thank you very much. We will now move on to the second item on our agenda, namely the election of the Deputy Chair of the committee.
[English]
Senator Maheu: I move that Senator Keon be named deputy chair of the committee.
[Translation]
The Chairman: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Maheu that the Honourable Senator Keon be elected Deputy Chair of this committee. Is it the pleasure of honourable senators to adopt said motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
[English]
Senator Austin: Madam Chair, I move that the committee consider naming Senator Jean Robert Gauthier as Honorary Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages.
Senator Maheu: What does "honorary chair" mean?
Senator Austin: "Honorary chair" would indicate our recognition of Senator Gauthier for a parliamentary lifetime of support for the official languages program. I am aware of about 40 years of effort on his part to further the official languages program of the federal government and of every government. He has been aggressive, as he should be, in ensuring that official languages standards are met in every possible way. This being the last year of Senator Gauthier's term in the Senate, it is more than fitting that he be recognized as the honorary chair of this committee.
Senator Maheu: Thank you.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Is it the pleasure of the committee to adopt the motion?
Senator Comeau: I have no objections. However, since this is a first for us, I am curious as to the role of the honourary chair.
[English]
Senator Austin: I will explain further. It is not co-chair but honorary chair. Under the rules we have a chair, which the committee has elected. The honorary chair is not barred in any way by the rules. The position is non-paying and simply expresses the confidence and support that the committee believes to be the due of any chair. In the past, we have recognized the contributions of senators who have done substantial work in committees, after leaving those committees to new chairs.
There is neither legal authority nor financial benefit for an honorary chair. The position is simply in recognition of colleagues who have made a contribution in the pursuit of this particular sector of public policy.
[Translation]
Senator Comeau: I believe Senator Gauthier is very deserving of the honour of having the title of honourary chair bestowed upon him. He has long deserved to be so honoured by all francophone Canadians from coast to coast, including francophone Quebecers and Acadians. I have no objections to conferring this title upon him.
[English]
The Chairman: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Austin that the Honourable Senator Jean Robert Gauthier be recognized as honorary chair of this committee; is that correct?
Senator Austin: Yes, and that the recognition be contained in the report of this committee to the Senate.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Is it the pleasure of honourable senators to adopt said motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
[English]
Senator Keon: May I add my congratulations to Senator Gauthier, whom I have known for about 35 years, since I returned from America to Canada to practise medicine. He has been as a great member of Parliament for Ottawa and, of course, for Canada. When our committee travelled across the country last year, it was obvious that the hero of French Canadians outside Quebec is Senator Gauthier. I think the title of honorary chair is very appropriate.
[Translation]
Senator Beaudoin: I too would like to congratulate Senator Gauthier and I concur with Senator Comeau's comments. Senator Gauthier is extremely knowledgeable about official languages in Canada. I know that for a fact, having consulted with him on legal matters on numerous occasions, I have rarely met someone so well versed in the subject. To echo what others have said, Senator Gauthier is very deserving of this honour.
Senator Léger: I have a question for Senator Gauthier. What must we do to match your pace? I do not have a great deal of time to spare, but I will try. Congratulations.
[English]
Senator Maheu: As an anglophone Quebecer, I congratulate Senator Gauthier on his nomination as honorary chair. It is an honour well deserved.
[Translation]
The Chairman: I too would like to congratulate Senator Gauthier whom I admire deeply. As a francophone from Western Canada, I had heard about Senator Gauthier who is viewed as one of our staunchest defenders. My heartfelt congratulations on this honour.
Next is item 3 on our agenda: Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure:
It is moved by Senator Maheu that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be composed of the Chair, the Deputy Chair and one other member of the committee, to be designated after the usual consultation; and that the Subcommittee be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the committee with respect to its agenda, to invite witnesses and to schedule hearings.
Is it the pleasure of honourable senators to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Item 4.
[English]
It is a motion to print the committee's proceedings. It is moved by the Honourable Senator Munson that the committee print its proceedings and that the chair be authorized to set the number to meet the demand.
[Translation]
Is it the pleasure of honourable senators to adopt said motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Item 5: Authorization to hold meetings and to print evidence when quorum is not present.
It is moved by the Honourable Senator Léger, that pursuant to rule 89, the Chair be authorized to hold meetings, to receive and authorize the printing of the evidence when a quorum is not present, provided that a member of the committee from both the government and the opposition be present.
Senator Beaudoin: I have a question concerning this item. Are we to understand that the committee could hear from expert witnesses when only two members are present?
The Chairman: Yes.
Senator Beaudoin: Does the same hold true for other committees?
The Chairman: Yes.
Senator Beaudoin: When was this decided?
Senator Comeau: That is the way it has always been.
Senator Beaudoin: I see.
The Chairman: For some time now.
Senator Comeau: You are learning something new today.
Senator Beaudoin: Do we realize the implications? Two members could hear testimony from ten expert witnesses and that would be that.
Senator Comeau: You have a point. However, suppose ten individuals arrive to testify and 10 of the 12 senators on the committee are absent. It is preferable for the two senators present — provided of course one is from the government and the other from the opposition — to hear the testimony than to turn the witnesses away. Senators may be absent on occasion, but at least the witnesses are able to testify before the members who are present.
Senator Beaudoin: I concur with the motion.
The Chairman: Item 6 concerns the Financial Report.
As the financial report is not yet available —
Senator Comeau: I have a comment. If we vote to adopt the financial report without having an actual copy of the report to consider, then we run the risk of encountering some problems.
The Chairman: I agree. Shall we defer consideration of this motion until our next meeting?
Senator Comeau: Yes.
The Chairman: Are we agreed then?
[English]
Item 7 is in regard to research staff.
[Translation]
Would someone like to move a motion to that effect?
Senator Comeau: Yes.
[English]
The Chairman: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Comeau that the committee ask the Library of Parliament to assign research staff to the committee; that the chair be authorized to seek authority from the Senate to engage the services of such counsel and technical, clerical and other personnel as may be necessary for the purpose of the committee's examination and consideration of such bills, subject matters of bills, and estimates as are referred to it; that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to retain the services of such experts as may be required by the work of the committee; and that the chair, on behalf of the committee, direct the research staff in the preparation of studies, analyses, summaries and draft reports.
[Translation]
Is it the pleasure of honourable senators to adopt said motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Item 8: Authority to commit funds and certify accounts.
It is moved by Senator Léger that, pursuant to section 32 of the Financial Administration Act, authority to commit funds be conferred individually on the Chair, the Deputy Chair and the Clerk of the Committee; and that pursuant to section 34 of the Financial Administration Act, and Guideline 3:05 of Appendix II of the Rules of the Senate, authority for certifying accounts payable by the Committee be conferred individually on the Chair, the Deputy Chair and the Clerk of the Committee.
Is it the pleasure of honourable senators to adopt said motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator Beaudoin: Must all three of these individuals sign off?
The Chairman: That has always be the case in the past.
Senator Beaudoin: Three signatures are required.
The Chairman: The signature of any one of these three individuals.
Senator Beaudoin: That is not was the French says. The motion in French reads "soit conférée individuellement." Currently, all three must sign off.
Senator Maheu: In committee, I certify the accounts along with the clerk.
Mr. Thompson: I will re-read the text of the motion in both languages:
That, pursuant to section 32 of the Financial Administration Act, authority to commit funds be conferred individually on the Chair, the Deputy Chair and the Clerk of the Committee; and
That, pursuant to section 34 of the Financial Administration Act, and Guideline 3:05 of Appendix II of the Rules of the Senate, authority for certifying accounts payable by the committee be conferred individually on the Chair, the Deputy Chair and the Clerk of the Committee.
Senator Beaudoin: I have a problem with the word "individually". What does it mean exactly? Must all three sign off, or does one person's signature suffice? This is the first time I have ever seen the word "individually" used.
Senator Maheu: What does the word "individually" mean in this case?
[English]
Mr. Thompson: It is conferred on the chair or the deputy chair or the clerk of the committee.
[Translation]
Senator Maheu: I would use the word "or", instead of "and".
Senator Beaudoin: As the motion is now worded, "individually"...
The Chairman: You want to see "ou" used in the French version, and "or" in the English version. Correct?
[English]
Senator Maheu: Or the clerk of the committee or the deputy chair.
[Translation]
Senator Beaudoin: If we go with "or", that means that each person has signing authority, namely the Chair, the Deputy Chair and the Clerk individually. If we keep the word "individually", we need to insert "or".
Senator Comeau: That is correct.
Senator Beaudoin: The clerk has signing authority as well?
Senator Maheu: Not in the case of this committee. Both myself and the clerk must sign off.
Senator Beaudoin: Two signatures are required.
The Chairman: The clerk informs me that that was how things were done in the past. Would you prefer to have three signatures required?
Senator Maheu: No, I would change the wording to "or".
Senator Beaudoin: If we keep the word "individually", then we need to insert "or". I believe that is the consensus.
The Chairman: I am sensing that.
[English]
Senator Maheu: Or the deputy chair or the clerk.
[Translation]
The Chairman: If I understand correctly then, you want to retain the word "individually", and in the English version, we would have "or", and in the French version, "ou".
Senator Beaudoin: Correct.
The Chairman: One person could sign off. Do you want to delete the reference to "individually".
Hon. Senators: Yes.
Senator Comeau: That makes more sense.
Senator Beaudoin: The word "individually" is out of place here.
[English]
Senator Munson: I agree. I just said the word "or," so it would just be conferred on the chair or the deputy chair or the clerk of the committee.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Should the motion be read again?
Hon. Senators: No.
The Chairman: Item 9 concerns travel. Would someone care to move the motion?
Senator Comeau: I will.
The Chairman: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Comeau that the committee empower the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure to designate, as required, one or more members of the committee and/or such staff as may be necessary to travel on assignment on behalf of the committee. Is it the pleasure of honourable senators to adopt said motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Item 10 concerns the designation of members traveling on committee business.
It is moved by Senator Maheu that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to determine whether any member of the committee is on "official business" for the purposes of paragraph 8(3)(a) of the Senators Attendance Policy, published in the Journals of the Senate on Wednesday, June 3, 1998; and consider any member of the committee to be on "official business" if that member is attending a function, event or meeting related to the work of the committee; or making a presentation related to the work of the committee. Is it the pleasure of honourable senators to adopt said motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
[English]
The Chairman: Number 11, travelling and living expenses of witnesses: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Munson that, pursuant to the Senate guidelines for witness expenses, the committee may reimburse reasonable travelling and living expenses for one witness from any one organization, and payment will take place upon application, but that the Chair be authorized to approve expenses for a second witness should there be exceptional circumstances. Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Item 12 concerns electronic media coverage of public meetings. Who would like to move the motion? It is moved by Senator Comeau that the Chair be authorized to seek permission from the Senate to permit coverage by electronic media of its public proceedings with the least possible disruption of its hearings; and that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered to allow such coverage at its discretion. Is it the pleasure of honourable senators to adopt said motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
[English]
The Chairman: Number 13, distribution of documents: Would any senator like to move this item?
Senator Keon: I am a little uncomfortable moving it as deputy chair.
Senator Beaudoin: I so move.
The Chairman: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Beaudoin that documents to be distributed to the members and staff of this committee be distributed via electronic mail whenever possible. Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Item 14 has to do with the time slot for meetings.
Senator Maheu: There is a problem. Three or four senators serve on both the Human Rights and the Official Languages committees. Since we cannot be in two places at the same time, I think we should revert to holding meetings every two weeks. How can we be expected to attend both meetings?
Senator Beaudoin: Or at a different time.
Senator Comeau: Senator Maheu raises a valid point. We sit for three hours every two weeks — that was not the case in the past — instead of meeting every week, so that each committee can take its turn. The two committees need to agree on the schedule.
Senator Munson: I have a slight problem because I also serve on the National Security and Defence committee.
Senator Maheu: I already spoke this morning with the whip to see if she could possibly consider another time slot. There is a scheduling conflict with the National Security and Defence Committee.
[English]
The Chairman: Does your committee meet Mondays in the afternoon too, Senator Munson?
Senator Munson: Senator Kenny has not told me, but they do have long sittings. Sometimes their meetings are from 12 p.m. to 5 p.m., and sometimes from 5 p.m. to 1 p.m. on Mondays.
[Translation]
Senator Beaudoin: Monday mornings were impossible for me because of my teaching schedule. Since I now teach on Fridays, I am free on Mondays.
Senator Maheu: Mondays were a problem for Senator Jaffer because she was flying in from Vancouver then. Perhaps we could check with Senator Jaffer and ask Senator Kenny not to schedule any meetings of this committee on Mondays. That would be helpful. Does the committee sit every Monday?
Senator Munson: I do not believe so.
Senator Maheu: We can check with the whips.
Senator Beaudoin: Monday morning poses a problem.
Senator Comeau: Senators who represent remote areas have a problem getting here for Monday morning meetings. I have to leave on Sunday to make a Monday morning meeting. Afternoons would be better for me.
The Chairman: The clock is ticking and the Senate will begin sitting shortly. Would you be ready to meet next Monday, if at all possible, to discuss an agenda? Also, this would give the clerk enough time to contact the whips to consider other options.
Senator Maheu: The Human Rights Committee has already scheduled an organization meeting for February 16 at 4:30 p.m.
The Chairman: Will the meeting be over by 5 p.m.?
Senator Maheu: By 5:30 p.m.
The Chairman: Could we schedule a meeting then for 5:30 p.m. and dispose of the time slot and agenda items? Would that be amenable to senators?
Senator Maheu: Provided you clear things with the whips of the three committees. They set the schedules in any event.
The Chairman: In the meantime, if you have any initiatives to suggest, pass your ideas on to the clerk. He will be in touch with you to let you know the time and location of our next meeting.
The meeting is adjourned.