Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Aboriginal Peoples
Issue 13 - Evidence - Meeting of October 26, 2005 (morning meeting)
KELOWNA, Wednesday, October 26, 2005
The Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples met this day at 9:05 a.m. to examine and report on the involvement of Aboriginal communities and businesses in economic development activities in Canada.
Senator Nick G. Sibbeston (Chairman) in the chair.
[English]
The Chairman: I will call the Aboriginal Senate Committee to order. We are in the traditional territory of the Okanagan Nation and we are glad to be here today. We have Chief Robert Louie from the Westbank First Nation and Councillor Mike DeGuevara here before us. Welcome and please begin your presentation.
Robert Louie, Chief, Westbank First Nation: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and good morning, honourable senators. We are pleased to be here this morning to give this presentation to you with respect to the Westbank First Nation economic development.
We have circulated an 18-page document that I intend to review briefly. I will leave the better part of our time this morning for questions from you. We also have a brief PowerPoint presentation that will give you some sense of the types of developments that we are currently working on and the location of our Westbank lands.
The Westbank First Nation is one of seven communities in the Okanagan Nation. We are part of the Okanagan Nation Alliance. Our First Nation population is comprised of approximately 650 members, together with another 8,000 non-Natives who reside within the Westbank reserve lands, which total slightly less than 6,000 acres. We have been working hard to progress over the last 18 years, and became self-governing as of April 1, 2005.
We have gone through the management of our reserve lands under the Indian Act, pursuant to sections 53 and 60, which are delegated authorities under the act. We have developed our own taxation regime; and we were the second community in Canada, behind Kamloops, to begin collecting property taxes following the amendment to the Indian Act in 1988.
We also have gone through the First Nation Land Management Act and developed our land code. The code has been put into our self-government agreement and is now part of our constitution in our land rules.
We had one major claim settled in the 1982 time frame, which included cut-off lands that were taken away from our reserves in the early 1900s. Over the years, we have added approximately 3,000 acres to our reserve land base. These lands, referred to as the Gallagher Canyon lands, were acquired through negotiations with the Province of British Columbia and the Government of Canada to offset reserve lands that were lost when Highway 97 went through our lands.
We are currently working with the Canadian and British Columbia governments to expedite our treaty negotiation process. We are very involved in this area at the moment in the hopes of completing the process.
We have been able to negotiate an interim measures agreement with the Province of British Columbia for a community forest licence. This licence covers approximately 45,000 hectares of land, which produces an annual wood allowance of 55,000 cubic metres.
We separated from the Okanagan Indian Band in 1963 in order to have greater control over our lands and to take advantage of the economic opportunities that were available to our community — both at the community and individual band member levels.
We have gone through rapid change since the early 1960s. By the 1990s, approximately 25 per cent of all land transactions on Canadian reserves took place at Westbank. In addition, about 20 per cent of all non-Natives living on reserve lands reside on Westbank lands.
We have gone through various inquiries into the affairs of the Westbank First Nation. The most significant was the federal Hall inquiry in 1988, which identified problems with the Westbank governance at that time. Justice John Hall stated that it was the old problem of "a government of men and not a government of laws." Changes were recommended and this stimulated our quest to become self-governing.
In 1990, we signed a framework agreement with Canada to negotiate self-government. In 1998, we signed a self-government agreement in principle, concluding the final agreement in 2000 under the federal government's inherent right of self-government policy. Our community ratified the agreement in 2003 and the federal Westbank First Nation Self-Government Act was passed in 2004. As I indicated earlier, we officially became self-governing on April 1, 2005.
One of the main obstacles that affect the First Nations across Canada is the lack of jurisdictional capacity to manage reserve lands and resources. Fortunately for us, that is now behind us. We have a significant lands department; we have an economic development commission; and we have administrative laws that allow us to properly manage and develop our lands and ensure that we have rules and regulations in place to ensure a stable government.
Most of our development projects are located on privately held, Certificate of Possession lands. All development on Westbank lands is undertaken in accordance with our Westbank subdivision development and servicing law.
As required by our constitution, our community is currently developing a comprehensive land use planning law. In the interim, we operate with a physical development plan that was put in place in November 2001, and has been adopted as policy.
Through experience, we have found that developers, financiers and those interested in doing business on reserve lands are attracted by the fact that we have proper rules and regulations in place. They have confidence in our law-making, which helps ensure that we receive financing. That is very significant. We believe that most First Nation communities in Canada have problems in that area.
It is also clear to us that there is a need for a new national First Nations land registry system. We believe that a clear legal system for the registration of interest in lands is fundamental to protect our property rights and is essential to the creation and maintenance of First Nation wealth. A solid land registry system where interest in lands can be registered in priority is essential for financial institutions and is a necessary part of any system of property law.
We are currently working on a First Nations land registry system, in conjunction with the First Nation communities, under the First Nations Land Management Act. A Westbank land register will be governed by the same rules set out in our specific regulation, and will work in conjunction with the land regulations under the First Nations Land Management Act.
We believe that the concept of private property is critical to provide opportunities for economic development on reserve lands. We operate on the premise that private property and the interests of Certificate of Possession holders are important if there are going to be incentives to develop one's lands. However, there must be land use plans and regulations that provide guidance for the development.
We also believe that it is important to separate business from government and we have attempted to do that in our structure. We believe that the political level must not interfere with the business activities on our reserve lands.
We also have put together laws — such as the Westbank First Nation's long-term debt liability and guarantees law — to ensure that we have proper accountability, that the community does not over-borrow and that our members are properly informed of any business activities that take place. If we are looking at borrowing lands for economic development purposes, proper business plans must be set out. We are limited in the liability that we can incur and the guarantees that we can provide. Our membership must be fully and properly informed of all business activities and ventures that we intend to proceed in.
We have set up an economic development commission, which is working effectively. We have a five-member board, consisting of three of our members and two non-Native members who serve as advisers. Presently, we have an appraiser and a banker who are involved in our economic development commission.
The duties and responsibilities of the commission are to act as the economic development advisory board to the chief and council; to coordinate an overall community economic development vision and prepare a long-term economic development strategic plan for our community; to establish mechanisms to receive input on economic development policies from the economic community of our Westbank lands; to provide advice pertaining to policies and bylaws; to develop initiatives, media materials and services to promote Westbank as an attractive community for new enterprise; and to assist council and our departments to make representations to government, industry and the public in the areas of economic development and business.
It is a challenge when First Nations are looking to attract businesses to reserve lands. We know full well that challenge, and to have a commission to help guide us is important for us as a community.
Some of the recent economic development projects I have listed in this presentation include the Okanagan Lake Bridge project and the west-side approaches. Those activities are in the hundreds of millions of dollars. We are also involved in a power commercial centre with big-box retail outlets; considerable development is happening in that regard. We have a manufacturing business, called Grizzly Wood Products, which we have built on Westbank lands. It includes an 18,000-square-foot plant, where we manufacture hardwood flooring, siding, prefabricated cottages and miscellaneous wood products.
We also have tests tasking place on two of our reserves that have significant aggregate deposits in the millions of cubic metres. We are currently looking at them to ensure that proper extraction and spin-off benefits can take place.
A number of private residential subdivisions and retail and commercial developments are under way with our band members. We have somewhere between 900 and 1,000 homes that are either under construction or will be developed over the next one and a half to two years.
We also are working with the regional district, and hopefully soon with the City of Kelowna, on a cultural interpretive centre project that we believe will be a stimulant to the economic base in the Okanagan Valley. That will be a tremendous educational benefit and provide advantages to the business community of Kelowna and area.
I will briefly turn to our PowerPoint presentation before opening the floor up to questions. The first slide gives you an indication of the lands that we have. We have five reserve lands, two of which are located on the west side of Okanagan Lake. Those are referred to as Tsinstikeptum Indian Reserve (IR) No. 9 and Tsinstikeptum IR No. 10.
The other three reserves are on the east side of Okanagan Lake. One reserve is at Mission Creek, which is a small, five-acre fishing site; and the other two reserves are Medicine Creek IR No. 12 and Medicine Hill IR No. 11. Those are more rural areas where we are currently looking at a number of things, including the extraction of aggregate deposits, potential housing, industry, forestry and aquaculture.
The next slide is a physical development plan of the Tsinstikeptum IR No. 9 reserve lands, which are adjacent to the town of Westbank. It is where most of our Westbank First Nation population lives and where most of the present economic development activity is taking place, including the big-box retail outlets and commercial centres.
Next is a map of Tsinstikeptum IR No. 10. When you cross the Okanagan Lake Bridge onto the west side, Highway 97 will take you through the centre of this reserve. Significant planning is now under way here. We have residential homes with 99-year leases on the subject lands and manufactured home parks. We are now looking intensively at high-rise complexes and other commercial activities. This particular piece of land could accommodate in the vicinity of 20,000-plus residents.
The next site, on Tsinstikeptum IR No. 9, will give you an indication of our highway commercial development project — the power centre beginnings that we are currently involved in. There are approximately 15.5 acres of land on that particular site. Our members have the Certificate of Possession ownership of these lands. On their behalf, we have just negotiated the completion of the Home Depot facility and Canadian Tire, and we are looking at London Drugs. We believe that there also will be another financial institution; there are four financial institutions currently located on Westbank Reserve lands and we are looking at a fifth.
This particular site should accommodate at least five major businesses and this is only the start. These negotiations have been completed and construction of the infrastructure is anticipated in the next couple of weeks. The final erection of the Home Depot and Canadian Tire facilities is planned for November 2006.
The next slide gives you an indication of the multi-family complex that is presently planned adjacent to the Vintage golf course. It is significant not only in design, but also because it will accommodate the market needs of the community. The following slide shows the types of dwellings that are currently being built at the Vintage Hills location.
Next are the Tsinstikeptum IR No. 10 reserve lands. This is one of the developments that will include more of the modular, manufactured homes to be custom made for a particular market.
We also are looking at office business park developments along Highway 97, which is the area surrounding our existing Westbank First Nation administration building. These are some concepts with development potential that we are currently exploring.
This particular plan unit site is on what we believe are very viable lands of the Westbank First Nation — currently lands of exchange in excess of $1.5 million per acre between members. These are lands that we believe are conducive to this type of development, which is a planned unit development, some high-rise condominium complexes and other commercial activities. There is considerable interest by developers across Canada to be involved in this project with us.
The next slide gives you another indication of the types of mixed-use residential developments that we are looking at on the Tsinstikeptum IR No. 10 lands. It is a conceptual idea of the types of residential developments that we believe are possible in that particular area.
This is just a brief overview of what is happening in the Westbank First Nation community. We are proud of our accomplishments to date, but we have a long way to go. Even though we have quite intensive developments, with over 8,000 non-Natives living on reserve lands today, this is only a drop in the bucket as to what we see in our future.
Senator Fitzpatrick: I would like to welcome the chief and councillors to this Senate hearing. I am very proud of what we do in the Okanagan Valley and, in particular, of the achievements of the Westbank First Nation, which serve as an example of what can be done in other parts of our country.
There are a couple areas that I would like the chief to expand on, because I think the contribution that Westbank has made is outstanding — particularly in areas of cultural participation, such as the cultural corridor, the Okanagan partnership and the initiation of economic activities of the Westbank First Nation.
Perhaps, chief, you would comment on two things that I think have been very important to you: one is the self-government agreement and how that has contributed to your economic development. Could you elaborate a bit on the process that you went through with the advisory council in establishing the constitution after the determination of self-government?
Second, could you comment on the First Nations Fiscal and Statistical Management Act, which provides for financial institutions, and how you see that helping? I understand Manny Jules will be testifying, but I would like to have your comments as well. I think it is critical to have the opportunity to be able to mortgage lands for First Nation members on-reserve.
Mr. Louie: Thank you very much, Senator Fitzpatrick. Our community is very supportive of the fine work that you do, both with our community and the First Nations throughout this valley.
Our self-government agreement has had significant effects. First, regarding the economic development contributions, anybody who comes to invest on reserve lands knows that we are self-governing and that we have rules and regulations.
It is our job to ensure that those rules and regulations are properly carried out, and that is what our self-government agreement provides — good governance. There is accountability and the procedures are consistent; there is no changing of policies in midstream. The laws that our community has been involved with are open and are made available to anyone who wishes to be involved in Westbank lands. They have the full involvement of our Westbank First Nation community.
That has all contributed to a significant advantage in attracting development. We have worked hard to ensure that we promote it and that we maintain a certain amount of stability. That is all built around our self-government agreement.
The advisory council is very important for us as well. We have approximately 8,000 non-Native members who live on Westbank Reserve lands. That population is growing in leaps and bounds. Our self-government agreement and our constitution provide a process where we have input from the non-Native members who reside and do business within the Westbank lands.
As a result of that, we developed an advisory council. That was the first law that we passed when we became self-governing on April 1, 2005. It is a five-member, elected council that represents five district wards within the Westbank lands. They provide advice and recommendations, primarily on the taxation issue, which is probably the biggest one, as well as on any developments that may significantly affect the residents. We have total involvement there; regular meetings are held. In fact, the elections have been completed recently and arrangements are being made for community members to meet with the newly elected members of the advisory council to go over any issues and concerns and understand each other's viewpoint.
On the financial side, we have been very supportive of the First Nations Fiscal and Statistical Management Act, particularly of the First Nations Finance Authority and the whole initiative of issuing First Nation bonds and debentures. First Nations, including Westbank, need to have a vehicle to be able to borrow cheaply at the municipal level to put in infrastructure. Credit ratings have been extremely important to ensure that there is the credibility to be able to borrow. We believe that will open up doors for us and other First Nation communities across Canada in a very big way.
The mortgage of lands also has been a significant area. We have worked hard at trying to ensure that we have a stable land base. We have encountered concerns by various financial institutions in ensuring they have proper priority of registration. It is extremely important that we have an effective and credible First Nations land registry set up in Ottawa.
We develop and put together our leases, interest of lands; that is the responsibility of our lands department, in conjunction with our community. Once all of those deals are put together, the transactions need to be registered and there has to be proper priority of registration.
Currently, we have the Indian Act, which operates with the land registry system that operates mostly under policy. There is no statute that guides the registration of lands on reserves anywhere in Canada. That has created problems, primarily with financial institutions who want to lend and know that they have got absolute security. Therefore, it is extremely important for us to have the proper land registry regulations and a department that registers priorities and can go as far as one can in guaranteeing those registrations. The ability to mortgage lands is essential for our developments at Westbank.
Senator Fitzpatrick: Could you elaborate on the 99-year leases you have? You have been able to avoid problems on these leases that we have witnessed in other areas. How have you done that so successfully?
Mr. Louie: It is extremely important that there is security for the investors. Ninety-nine-year leases include not only residential property, but also the big-box retail outlets and the majority of the major commercial developments on Westbank lands.
When we started the initial long-term leases in 1974, it was a new concept in the Okanagan Valley. We had to ensure there was security of tenure in order to have investors and bankers willing to invest on reserve lands. Honouring the commitments that are contained in the lease documents has been extremely important.
Under the Indian Act and with the Department of Indian Affairs in the past, for most First Nation communities, documents have been prepared by Indian Affairs people and have had clauses inserted in them that have caused problems. Granted, in the First Nation communities — and I am using the Musqueam situation as an example — in the early 1960s, the lands were less valuable. They did not get the proper value for the development on those lands.
I believe part of the requirement was that after a 35-year time frame, it was to be reviewed and put more in line with the then-market value of those lands. That did not occur in the best order because there were disagreements as to what the proper land value was. That has now been determined by a court case.
However, those were typical precedent clauses that were inserted by the Department of Indian Affairs. They have caused problems not only with First Nation communities; I believe such clauses have affected non-Native people on reserve lands as well. That is why it is so important today that our lease structures are gone over very carefully so that the investor — whether it is residential or commercial — knows exactly what the terms are, and it works. This is something that has distinguished us from other communities.
Senator Fitzpatrick: A number of them are prepaid, are they not?
Mr. Louie: That is correct. The majority of developers who come to Westbank are more interested in the prepaid, long-term lease structure, without having renewal clauses every five years or 35 years or what have you. The majority of our 99-year leases are prepaid, which is a significant difference.
The Chairman: We are 10 minutes over our time allotted for Chief Louie and Mr. DeGuevara. Should we continue for another five minutes or should we just leave it at this and go on to the next witnesses?
Senator Christensen: If the chief is agreeable, could we submit written questions and have him respond to them so we could have it as part of our report? There are many things that we would like to know about what Westbank has done.
Senator St. Germain: Is there any information regarding Certificate of Possession ownership that is unique, which you could give us in writing — for example, how you determine the certificates and how they transfer from owner to owner? Private ownership through Certificates of Possession and the registry is the critical aspect.
Mr. Louie: By all means. We could have that done
The Chairman: Senators, our next witness is Christina Rowland from the Okanagan Nation Alliance.
Welcome and please proceed.
Christina Rowland, Economic Development Officer, Okanagan Nation Alliance: Honourable senators, thank you for welcoming a presentation from the Okanagan Nation Alliance's economic development unit as part of today's hearings.
On behalf of the leaders of the seven member bands of the Okanagan Nation and our chairman, Chief Stewart Phillip, we join Chief Robert Louie and his party in welcoming you to Okanagan territory.
The nation-level economic development function is a relatively new one, which consolidates the approach to economic development for our seven member communities. I would like to start by giving you a little bit of background, some evidence of the successes that we have had in a relatively short period of time, and then provide you with the comments assembled from a number of our leaders at a preparatory meeting earlier this week in which we discussed some of the issues that they would like to have brought forward.
The nation-level function is very different, yet complementary to the economic development work of the individual bands. I hope that we will have some opportunity for questions. I will try to help you get back on your schedule, but I do look forward to expounding a bit upon the framework that we are developing and what we hope to achieve with it.
You probably are all aware of the background of the Okanagan Nation. However, I will reiterate that it is comprised of seven member bands. From north to south through the Okanagan Valley, they are: the Okanagan Band in the Vernon area; Westbank First Nation, whom you just heard from; Upper Nicola in the Merritt area; Penticton; Upper and Lower Similkameen; and Osoyoos.
Their traditional territory occupied an area that extended over 69,000 square kilometres. The northern area of this territory was close to Mica Creek, in what we know as modern-day Revelstoke. The eastern boundary was Kootenay Lake. The southern boundary extended to the vicinity of Wilbur, Washington, home to our Okanagan cousins, the Colville Tribe; and the western border extended into the Nicola Valley. Indeed, this is a vast region that crossed over many watersheds and geographies that ranged from semi-arid environments to lush, green stands of forest. Today, the Okanagan territory has become one of the fastest growing regions in the country — the Central Okanagan.
In more recent times, Okanagan member bands have enjoyed varying degrees of success in economic development. The pendulum swings widely from the substantial progress that is being made by bands like Osoyoos, who are recognized as a national exemplar in Aboriginal economic development, as well as Westbank First Nation with their location and self-government to back up their economic development initiatives, to the other side and in between, with bands such as Lower Similkameen and Upper Nicola, who are struggling to compete and benefit economically in an operating environment that is remote, fragmented and lacking in resources and capacity.
There are stark contrasts between the overall regional economic context and the operating environment for building a new and integrated economy for the area's First Nation communities as a whole. Alienation and dispossession from their land and legislative reform through the Indian Act have made it impossible and impractical for First Nations to advance and develop their communities in a sustainable fashion, given that the majority of the Indian reserve land base cannot sustain long-term viability.
It is within this environment of varying capacities, inequitable and widespread distribution, community fragmentation and poverty that the Okanagan Nation has become conscious of the need for nation building through economic development as a parallel and interrelated initiative to upholding the title and rights interests of their traditional territory.
The chiefs of the Okanagan Nation have long realized that sustainable economic development can help develop assets and create access to financial prosperity that can be reinvested to build healthy communities through social, environmental and cultural programs, while addressing capacity building, job creation and long-term sustainable employment.
Considering that over 60 per cent of the population of the Okanagan Nation are considered youth, which is converse to the mainstream trends in this area, and, again conversely, that the birth rates are well above the average, this is literally a growing concern.
The Chiefs Executive Council endorsed a national economic development entity in October 2003. This signified a new era and approach to reversing decline and deprivation, guiding the work of the tribal council through the principles of unity, collaboration and innovation.
The tribal council resolutions that are included in the packages that we have provided today encapsulate the intent and scope of the economic development unit as a complement to band-level enterprise, as a support to the entrepreneur and as a mechanism for managing collectively held interests at nation level. This creates the framework for a holistic and integrated approach to Aboriginal economic development on a regional basis.
To enable this holistic and integrated approach, we have activated tandem streams of action, which have been formulated to engage and involve leaders working from the top down, with bands and their constituents driving the process from the grassroots up. It is a comprehensive approach.
We have recognized that collaborative approaches are necessary to drive incremental growth in entrepreneurial, band-level and nation-level economic development in First Nations communities if we are ever to reach our communities' and Canada's aspirations for sustainable growth, and in order for this region to reach its full potential.
Regional approaches have been lauded as the way forward at many round tables, conferences and consultations I have attended in the last year and a half as the economic development officer in this post. Nationally and internationally, regions — not individual municipalities or bands — are widely appreciated as the appropriate unit and measure of economic development. We are seeking to uphold this reality as First Nation communities in the region participating in an equal and meaningful way with the mainstream as part of that integrated approach.
We have made significant progress in a very short time to build alliances and a framework for enhanced economic participation and growth. Currently, across the Okanagan Valley, an unprecedented commitment to collaborative working as a region has been emerging with many business leaders, government representatives and affiliate regional agencies participating in a process to develop an Okanagan-wide strategy for economic development. In the first year and a half of our economic development function, many First Nation representatives and ONA staff have participated in the Okanagan partnership cluster strategy. That development process offers knowledge, insights and creative energy to generate a contemporary framework for effective collaboration that will help interested parties harness and realize the Okanagan's full potential.
Through this process, the ONA has been recognized as the lead working partner in its capacity as the corresponding regional body providing a collective point of entry for working with the First Nation community on regional initiatives. The Chiefs Executive Council has given its endorsement to the economic development unit for ongoing participation in and evaluation of the strategy's potential concerning First Nation opportunities. We were delighted to have Senator Fitzpatrick initiate a number of those discussions and help move that forward.
The Okanagan Nation Alliance will provide the driving force behind the "First Nation Flagship." For those of you who are unfamiliar with the Okanagan partnership strategy, the flagships have been defined as cross-cutting issues with implications for the successful realization of the strategy as a whole. The First Nation Flagship is a legacy flagship, or a long-standing issue, recognizing that progressive action and resolution is required to build new collaborative working competencies across the nation, as well as across cultures.
The ONA's economic development officer and an appointee from our Chiefs Executive Council represent the Okanagan Nation as stewards of this initiative on its board of directors. This relationship has helped integrate a First Nation perspective and given it a voice at strategic levels, such as in the restructuring of the Okanagan Basin Water Board, recognizing that water management is a key cornerstone of the economic sustainability of this region.
We are participating in a newly created Regional Economic Development Society, where the EDOs of all of the area's regional districts will focus on collective economic development issues and opportunities. This is a first for the EDOs of this region as well. We are looking for great things to come of that forum for exchanging and interacting on regional opportunities and shared areas of interest and concern.
We are using our new partnerships in the marketing of the Okanagan region — for example, in tourism — elevating awareness of First Nation heritage, culture, arts and tourism. Your kits contain a couple of examples of that recent work. We are building on those two pieces to create a free-standing, 16-page magazine and guide on economic development and business with the seven First Nations in our region.
We are positioning capacity building programs and training resources to build enterprise and position investment and ventures at entrepreneurial, band and nation levels. At the conclusion of our first year of operation, we leveraged four times over the initial investment that we had from the private sector to generate the position of business development liaison. We are working on an outreach basis with all of our communities to undertake further strategic planning and the negotiations on our innovative forest practices agreement, to proactively approach quality management system certification for the launch of the Okanagan Nation Development Corporation, which will be the arm's-length umbrella organization for economic development as a region.
We will also undertake a community economic development assessment of the seven communities. An additional process will bring those plans up-to-date on an even basis, recognizing those gaps and creating another level of interface with the community to update them. It will be the added responsibility of this position to identify regional opportunities that we can work on collectively. This information will be fed into an upcoming regional planning initiative, another one that we are partnering with the Okanagan Partnership Group.
Our economic development function, which has been 100 per cent seeded by private sector investment to date, is working with proponents to explore capital projects that will bolster the Okanagan economy as a whole. However, all of this matters not if we are unable to remove some of the significant impediments to full and equal economic participation in an open marketplace.
There are a lot of expectations being placed on our First Nation communities, particularly as we engage in these processes and become more involved. We are being asked to do better, look better, aim higher; but if we cannot position these communities to respond to these demands, the credibility that we are working so hard to achieve will be undermined.
All of the relationship building, process involvement, capacity building and proposal development undertaken to date and planned for in the near future will amount to nothing if First Nation communities are denied access to lands and resources. There is an inextricable link between the lack of access to resources and poverty. There is an inextricable link between poverty and widening gaps in health and education, which make building the necessary levels of capacity almost impossible.
Economic development models such as the one being developed by the Okanagan Nation Alliance at the tribal council level that are integrated with mainstream economic development initiatives, and that interconnect with and support band-level economic development and the entrepreneur, cannot participate on the basis of project funding alone. They require significant core funding that is not provided for in the current regime of Canada, where only approximately 8 per cent of funding is going to economic development and 90-plus per cent is being spent on social programming.
Without the ability to support First Nations economic development initiatives and models that will allow wealth to be built and redistributed to its shareholders — the communities, in this instance — and then further channeled into social programs that are tailored to address local programs based on local need, no amount of relationship and capacity building will change the economy, self-sufficiency and long-term sustainability of First Nations, positively influencing Canada's economy as a whole.
We do assert that if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. With that in mind, we offer the following as contributing factors to generate change that will make a difference and help Canada achieve its aspirations for eradication of Aboriginal poverty within the next decade.
First, the chiefs have asked that the first point be to uphold and honour the Delgamuukw decision. Federal funding must reflect what Delgamuukw states and provide access to off-reserve resources and investment potential in off-reserve enterprise. For most of the communities, real money is not on-reserve, with few exceptions.
We need to enable real change and enhance core funding for economic development in First Nation communities. We need to support capacity building for economic development in First Nation communities so they may be positioned to lead their communities and their regions to a new quality of life.
We need assistance to build understanding and respect. We need to provide meaningful linkages between First Nation and mainstream economic development initiatives by promoting process inclusion at the very early stages. I will use the regional planning initiative as an example. For many years now, if you look at the regional district maps, the IR lands have a line drawn around them and there is nothing within them. Planning processes within regional districts, as well as across the region, have not included First Nations around those tables. It is very difficult to respond to the pressures to be equal partners and to create new realities when we are not even on the radar in a lot of circumstances.
There needs to be encouragement where those processes are being funded in the mainstream, such as the success that we have realized with the Okanagan partnership. We must embed the need and funding for culturally sensitive processes to be undertaken as a part of that — not that we are then, as we are doing now, playing catch-up, developing additional projects to assimilate the results of those studies and processes within the First Nation communities and then feeding back in.
Thankfully, in the instance of the Okanagan partnership, we have a good working relationship and we are building other alliances through that to help position us to avoid those sorts of circumstances in the future. However, this is a lesson and a circumstance that happens repetitively in communities across the country.
We suggest that we structure funding allocation so that there is adequate support for holistic and integrated approaches to economic development. It should be economic development that is targeted to achieving economic growth at the entrepreneurial, band and nation levels, not funding structures that pit economic development against and at the expense of others.
Speaking as a nation-level economic development officer, in the work that we are doing to consolidate a regional approach — which is the right approach to economic development — and at those three levels, there is difficulty with the limited funding that is available, often on a project basis only, to develop some projects. Some of the bands see that initiative as being competitive; if that project is funded — or even the development of that idea or concept — it is seen as minimizing the opportunity for some of those bands to acquire funding.
If regional approaches really are on the radar and are a way forward — and if we are to integrate with regional approaches, which are the flavour of the day in the mainstream — we need funding to support that. We cannot be put in a position where we are in competition with our own members.
Two nights ago, we hosted Ms. Doreen Spence here in Kelowna. She is a Cree elder and a 2005 Nobel Peace Prize nominee. She commented that it was much easier to change the Aboriginal position in Canada from the outside than it was to change it from within Canada.
The Okanagan people are committed at every level to change the nature of their relationships with federal, provincial, municipal, regional and local governments for the well-being of the Canadian society as a just society. Economic development is one aspect in which we can leverage that change in a meaningful and progressive manner.
Thank you for the opportunity for our nation to be represented and offer some of our experience, highlights and our hopes and aspirations for on-the-ground change.
Senator St. Germain: Chief Louie said that treaty negotiations with B.C. and Canada are in the process. Are you familiar with any of that?
Ms. Rowland: Not many of our bands are in the treaty process in this area. The Westbank First Nation is the only one with self-government and the others are achieving that at varying levels. It is recognized widely that in British Columbia, we are still in an unsettled state with regard to title and rights, which puts the entire province in a negative position. I talk to investors all the time who are either working with bands or interested in becoming involved with us. We get to a certain point and then we cannot progress further because of the unanswered questions and the unanswered disposition.
Senator St. Germain: The fact that these treaties have not been properly negotiated is a hindrance to economic development; is that what you are saying?
Ms. Rowland: It is a huge hindrance, and I think that is reflected in the First Nations Flagship, even in this region. That is why it is there as a long-standing, legacy issue that has to be addressed.
Senator St. Germain: Have all your specific land claims been settled in this area?
Ms. Rowland: Not that I am aware of.
Senator Zimmer: You talked about your youth and the growing concerns that you are having — and they really are our present and our future. One way to incorporate them into good activities is art and culture; and I read briefly in a pamphlet that you do have a fairly active artistic group there. One of the events that you have done on a yearly basis for 10 years has been your Salmon Fest. Do you have a plan or a program whereby the young people in art and cultural activities not only share their experiences within your community, but also within the province and possibly an interchange across the country? Do you invite organizations from different parts of the country to share those experiences, like a cross-cultural activity?
Ms. Rowland: As a nation, one of the things that we have been doing is looking at the potential for enhancing tourism and cultural ventures in this area. In January 2005, we hosted a very successful two-day conference on Aboriginal tourism and cultural product development that attracted over 200 representatives. It became the initiation point for relationships with a number of other organizations like the Thompson Okanagan Tourism Association, as well as the Okanagan Cultural Corridor.
We are also interconnected with Aboriginal Tourism B.C. On the back of some of the early successes we had in marketing and partnership with about 16 businesses in this area, we have been talking with the tourism agency about the opportunity for the Okanagan region and its entrepreneurs to be a pilot project demonstrating how the agency's blueprint strategy can be rolled out on a regional basis across the province. We do have aspirations for that to be taken forward in the context of an Okanagan Nation tourism association, a formalized group.
We do participate cross-culturally regularly. The Okanagan Nation's cultural learning facility is located in Penticton at the En'owkin Centre and we do take every opportunity that we have to interface there. Promotion is one aspect of it and capacity building is another one. Actual workshop streams, which are being developed with the business development liaison on an outreach basis, will be conducted to initiate business development in that area, provide one-on-one counselling, hopefully help provide access to the funding necessary for entrepreneurial ventures and then continue the marketing of those ventures as well.
We also are looking at a nation-level project that all of our bands can play into that would provide industry training to Okanagan Nation youth. It would give them the opportunity to work in tourism and cultural product development from the grassroots up, and into management over time.
Senator Zimmer: As a past-president of the Royal Winnipeg Ballet, I have found that youth, given the opportunity, get involved in activities like this, travelling the world. When they do, they are great ambassadors, so they also give back to us. It is a great opportunity for youth to stay on the right track.
Senator Fitzpatrick: Two things struck me that you mentioned, Ms. Rowland; one is the need to do something about youth education and training. I know that there is a good relationship being established at UBC Okanagan, but perhaps you can make a further comment on that.
The other is the need for economic development programs. In the last year or so, we have pulled back a bit from that. I think we have to get back to providing funding for some of the things that have taken place in the Okanagan, such as what Westbank has done and what the Osoyoos Band has done with economic development funding.
Ms. Rowland: There are a few issues there. I would like to start with education. Yes, we are developing a very good relationship with UBC. With the advent of the Aboriginal business development liaison position, we expect to have a high level of uptake as that service will provide more of a pre-entrepreneurial assessment and entrepreneurial development guidance. However, I think there are issues at even lower levels. We are doing what we can to interface with the private sector, even to try and encourage staying in school, rewarding students with bursaries at the Grade 12 level to keep them moving forward.
Another one of the initiatives and hopes is that the business development liaison over the long term, in building new businesses, will help create new role models within the community. It is important that residual capacity and those role models be built within the communities because that is where we will get real change. However, this will take a long time; and at the same time, we have a population that is growing in leaps and bounds.
This is a very complex area. It touches on health and education, which are certainly important parts of being able to participate in the economic development arena. We would like economic development programs to be funded — not projects so much, but programs over a longer term — that will give us the opportunity to create businesses and wealth that can be rechanneled into the social programming at the local level — programs that are better targeted and that are individualized to the needs of those communities. In that way, economic development and health and education are working in tandem to address the potential.
What was the second part of your question?
Senator Fitzpatrick: You have just touched on it — the need for more funding for economic development.
Ms. Rowland: We have experienced real difficulties, particularly as a regionally based or a tribal council-based formula, which is necessary to really get the full impact in the economy and participate fully.
We have seen the collapse of the economic development program through INAC. Thankfully, we have been successful in building good relationships with Western Economic Development and Aboriginal Business Canada. Even the province has started to support some of our program, such as the business development liaison. However, these fall far short and they are only project-based. For the next decade, we need some significant funds to go into ensuring that the core is there and that we can continue to move forward.
You heard from Westbank, who has the benefit of reserve lands that have economic viability. That is one thing. At nation level, in order to engage in capital projects or investment projects, we require access to off-reserve resources to provide a catalyst for longer-term sustainable economic development. We are perfectly capable, and we have a good route path to building capacity and to knowing what the opportunities are, but we need to be enabled. We have been disabled up until now.
Senator Fitzpatrick: You have a couple problems; one is you do not know what the entitlements are, whether it is resources or whatever. You talked about Delgamuukw, but that is unknown.
The other, as Chief Louie had referenced, is that you cannot mortgage your land. Somewhere there needs to be a bridge to provide funding to get economic development going, because you cannot go to what would be more normal business financing approaches. Is that correct?
Ms. Rowland: We are isolated from traditional mechanisms.
The Chairman: Thank you, Ms. Rowland. Our next witness is Manny Jules, on behalf of the Indian Taxation Advisory Board. Welcome; we often see you in Ottawa, but it is a real pleasure seeing you in your own territory.
Clarence (Manny) Jules, Chairman, Indian Taxation Advisory Board: It was nice seeing Chief Louie. We had dinner last night and reminisced about a lot of different activities we have been involved in over the years. Some of my earliest political memories were traveling through the Okanagan with my dad, who was chief at Kamloops from about 1961 to 1971, visiting the Okanagan Reserve, Westbank Reserve and Osoyoos, when Jimmy Stelkia was the chief many years ago. It was my introduction to politics outside of my community.
When I was chief of my community in the year 2000, the Secwepemc Shuswap Nation and the Okanagan reinforced what we had called the Fish Lake Treaty, which was a peace treaty between our two nations. Because we come from an oral tradition, we also had an exchange of children between our communities to reinforce this notion that we are not only working together, we are also family. With that in mind, I would like to thank you for this opportunity to speak about Aboriginal economic development.
I have a great deal of respect for the Senate Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs. I appeared before this committee a few times in the past to talk about the First Nations Fiscal and Statistical Management Act. With the support of this committee, that legislation received Royal Assent on March 23 of this year. I particularly would like to thank the chairman, Senator Nick Sibbeston, and Senator St. Germain for their hard work in this area; without that, we would not have received the Royal Assent. Thank you also to Senator Fitzpatrick for being our sponsor for this particular legislation.
That legislation is part of our agenda to improve our economies. It is part of a strategy to legislate our way back into Canada and back into the economy.
To understand our strategy, you must know how most of our economies work. Most of the resources in our communities come from federal transfers. There are only a few businesses. This means that all the transfers are immediately spent off-reserve. When someone asks where the $8 billion in transfers go, the answer is right back into the Canadian economy. We want to do more than just support the Canadian economy. We want to be part of it.
Imagine if our economy worked like the rest of Canada. Imagine if companies invested on our lands. Imagine if they made a return on their investment. Imagine if they expanded and needed more workers. Imagine if more workers meant a housing boom on our lands. Imagine if a growing economy meant more tax revenues for our governments. Imagine if we used those revenues to improve our infrastructure and public services. Imagine if the quality of our infrastructure and services attracted more companies to invest on our lands.
For you, this is not hard to imagine. This is what is happening in Alberta. This is what is happening in British Columbia. Unfortunately, for our communities, even the ones in B.C. and Alberta, it is not happening to them. Why?
The story I want to tell, and hundreds like it, holds the answer.
In 1994, when I was chief, a major developer from Austria had a vision for a residential development on our lands. We negotiated the terms of that agreement in about six months. It took two years to establish suitable land tenure. It took $1 million to develop the development agreement. It took another $500,000 to develop the legal framework to support a residential development. It took $10 million to build a water treatment facility. It took four and a half years and about $18 million before construction on any houses was started.
Today, this is a successful development. There are over 250 homes in Sun Rivers. Many of them are appraised at over $400,000. There are First Nations people living in many of these homes. It is a model that many other communities may want to copy.
Four and a half years is too long for a major development or investment to begin to provide a return. We have to provide the changes needed to make it easier and possible for Sun Rivers to happen in other communities.
First Nations need a private sector. Eighty per cent of all investment in Canada is private. Four out of five jobs are created by the private sector. I would estimate that on our lands the figures are the opposite. At least 80 per cent of all investment on First Nation lands is public and four out of five of our jobs are with the public sector. We have the balance wrong.
This private-public balance did not work in Eastern Europe and it will not work for us. We cannot get the balance right as long as the cost of doing business on the best of our lands is four to six times higher than it is off-reserve. Investors will continue to go where they have greater certainty and higher returns.
You have probably received two types of proposals to improve and address the problem of too little private investment. Most proposals address the symptoms of the problem. A missing private sector means poverty. The symptoms of poverty are higher costs of health care, social assistance, housing and education. It follows that as our population grows and we remain poor and need more resources, in the short term we have little choice but to treat the symptoms.
Unfortunately, you cannot replace our missing private sector with public resources. It is unsustainable.
In 10 years' time, one in 10 workers in the labour force will be an Aboriginal. This will occur precisely at the time when the number of workers supporting retirees falls from four to less than three. We cannot afford to sustain both old, unhealthy Canadians and poor, young Aboriginals with a burdened tax base.
Other proposals suggest that we need to subsidize the private sector so it can afford to invest on First Nations lands. Once again, these proposals treat the symptoms; costs of doing business are too high, so let us compensate investors for their higher risk. Subsidies may be necessary in the short term, but they, too, are unsustainable.
I want to talk about a third type of proposal. Instead of treating the symptoms, let us address the causes of market failure on our lands.
There are three broad causes of market failure. The first are structural problems. We have poor infrastructure, uncertainty over land tenure, jurisdictional uncertainty and little local decision-making.
The second group of causes is derivative. They result because the market has not worked on land since the Indian Act was introduced. As a result, we lack investment facilitation expertise, an absence of policies and procedures, poor quality information and a poor market reputation.
The third cause is the lack of capital and human capital planning. We lack equity in our homes to generate capital when opportunities arise. We need access to business capital. Training has been separated from local economic opportunities. We have to once again wed training to employment.
I have devoted much of my career to fixing these market failures. We are making progress. The First Nations Fiscal and Statistical Management Act creates four institutions that will help build infrastructure, provide more certainty to investors and improve the quality of financial and statistical information. The First Nations Land Management Act could reduce uncertainty about land use. It could help First Nations make local land use decisions at the speed required by business. The proposed First Nations Commercial and Industrial Act could mean that the environmental approval process on our land is comparable to that in provinces.
These are important steps, but much is left to do. To begin, we need to establish open-market housing on First Nations. We need to have the same right to equity and wealth in our homes that other Canadians take for granted.
The biggest source of private investment in Canada is residential construction. This source is largely absent from our lands. We need to connect our people to the market through the value of their homes. This is how other Canadians understand and support the market; we need to do the same for our people.
We have demonstrated that this is possible in my community through long-term leases. A number of First Nation persons have already bought homes in the Sun Rivers development. Some have sold their homes for a capital gain. This has to be part of the housing solution. Participating First Nations will be able to build more houses. We estimate that for the same amount of money spent now on our housing, at least five times as many homes could be built.
Perhaps more importantly, our proposal will also provide people with the ability to earn equity in their own homes. They need this equity to start businesses. They also will be able to compete for the best mortgages, just like other Canadians. Many people are skeptical that this is possible. I invite you to Sun Rivers to see it for yourself. Consider the potential of opportunities that would be realized by other First Nations if we shared this model.
Second, we need a proper land registry to provide the basic certainty over land title. Without a proper land registry, our lands will continue to be undervalued by investors. We will continue to sell leasehold land when the market demands indefeasible title.
We need a First Nation school of taxation. There is no school that provides the skill to meet the unique requirements for developing First Nation economies. Over the last 15 years, we have developed much expertise and curricula for facilitating First Nation investments. Our school of taxation will be the forum so it can be shared with other First Nations.
The First Nations Tax Commission is mandated to transfer economic development know-how to our communities. The Indian Taxation Advisory Board has 15 years of experience and credibility with our communities. A First Nation school of taxation will allow us to transfer our experience and models to more communities.
Fourth, we need a First Nations infrastructure program. It would be similar to the same opportunities provided through provincial programs. Provinces recognized that their smaller communities were caught in a development trap. They needed infrastructure to attract investment and they needed revenue to build infrastructure. By providing local governments with an initial infrastructure grant to complement, these small communities were able to attract investment and become more self-sufficient. Ultimately, this will save provinces money. We are proposing a similar infrastructure program to complement the First Nations Fiscal and Statistical Management Act.
The payoff to this strategy is real. There are at least 200 communities that have a competitive advantage in location, access to resources or labour. They are missing the basic market institutions that the rest of Canada takes for granted.
Working together, I see a bright future. I see First Nations driving economic growth, like Calgary and Vancouver. We are as productive as other Canadians. Imagine the legacy you could leave for our children. Our future begins with your report.
The Senate has demonstrated that it is willing to take the path less travelled. The Senate did not make health care recommendations because they were politically popular. You made recommendations based on an honest assessment of the facts and the root causes.
I expect that there will be the same courage, wisdom and vision when you make recommendations about Aboriginal economic development. I did not accept this invitation because I thought the Senate approved or accepted the status quo.
Senator St. Germain: Regarding this First Nations land registry that both you and Chief Louie spoke of, are you visualizing this through DIAND?
Mr. Jules: My vision for the future does not include DIAND.
Senator St. Germain: Both the chairman and I went on record yesterday saying exactly the same thing to the editorial board in Vancouver — it is time that DIAND disappears gracefully.
Would this First Nations land registry be like the land registry in B.C. under the Torrens system of indefeasible title?
Mr. Jules: I think the land registry system in British Columbia is among the world's best. Obviously, it would serve as the model. I advocate national institutions that help facilitate real economic development and growth. Without a proper land registry, we cannot get close to what is considered indefeasible title. Without that, we will be stuck in the same cycle we are in today.
If we are dealing, as an example, with matrimonial property issues on reserve land, you need a registrable interest. If we are dealing with highway interests, we need a registrable interest, without having to deal with the federal and provincial governments.
If we are going to have the kind of certainty that is required for real development on our lands, we need a proper land registry, not the seven words that are contained in the Indian Act: "There shall be an Indian land registry."
Senator St. Germain: Is there any way it could become an adjunct to the present land registry in B.C., as opposed to building a new wheel?
Mr. Jules: I have had several discussions with some of the board members from the B.C. land registry office and will be meeting with them sometime this fall. We could be using them as a model, but because we are dealing with the situation on a national basis, I advocate First Nation institutions. However, I do not shut the door to the possibility of us working, as we have, with the B.C. Assessment Authority, as an example. We need that kind of expertise; we need that transference of knowledge between other institutions that have been around for some time for the creation of First Nation institutions.
Senator St. Germain: As you know, the Torrens system that exists here provides the most protection and strength of title.
Mr. Jules: Absolutely. One of the things that happened as a result of Hurricane Katrina and the floods that followed it in New Orleans was that a lot of the early historical land registry documents are now gone. That cannot be allowed to happen in our own systems here. Fortunately for us, there are ways to deal with that.
Senator Fitzpatrick: I want to thank you for the leadership that you have shown in the past, particularly on the First Nations Fiscal and Statistical Management Act, and I am encouraged with the list of initiatives that you will pursue in the future.
Could you give us some idea of progress that has been made with respect to the institutionalization of the First Nations Fiscal and Statistical Management Act since it received Royal Assent?
Mr. Jules: As you know, this would not have happened without the senators supporting this particular piece of legislation, and I truly mean that. Since then, of course, we have agreed that the legislation will come into force April 1.
One of my fears was that the Department of Indian Affairs would simply look at us as one of their programs for delivering services to Aboriginal communities. That is a philosophical argument that we have with the department; it has been an entrenched part of their corporate philosophy. Our struggle has been that separation, because I did not spend the last couple of decades of my life to become a program for the Department of Indian Affairs. I see the development of institutions as taking this Berlin Wall down one brick at a time, and I do not see us building that back up. When we met recently with Minister Scott, he started to bring that back into line, which is very fortunate for us.
We want to be up and running as of April 1. In early September, we had an incredible meeting with about three quarters of the First Nation communities across Canada that have been involved in real property tax. They basically said, "Manny, we have been hearing you talk about this for so long, we want to get started."
That is where the infrastructure program that is part of my presentation to you comes in, as well as the school of taxation. There are some other issues that we have to consider as priorities and those are a couple of the highest ones.
It will take some time to change the notion that the public sector has to make up 80 per cent of all investments on First Nations lands and businesses, but we must have the institutional basis to be able to do that.
The Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Jules, Our next witness is Ruth Williams, who represents the All Nations Trust Company.
Ruth Williams, CEO, All Nations Trust Company: Good morning, honourable senators. It is pleasure to be here and I will try and stick to the schedule. I have handed out material for you to take with you, together with an outline of the PowerPoint presentation, if you wish to make notes.
We see All Nations Trust Company as a success story. I will give you a brief outline of our history and ownership.
One of the major barriers to economic development is the lack of access to capital, and we are very aware of the issues such as security on-reserve and attitudes. Some bands felt that we needed our own financial intermediary and, as a result, they invested in the All Nations Trust Company.
The buzzword now seems to be "pan-Aboriginal;" and we are owned by bands, tribal councils and individuals — status, non-status and Metis. They all believed that if we could develop an institution to help open doors and provide access to capital for businesses, that would overcome one of the major barriers.
We have 183 shareholders who provided an equity investment of over $1 million to get the company going. To me, that is one of the reasons for our success. When people ask us for financing, we want them to contribute some equity and have something to lose if the business fails. It is the same with our own institution.
We looked at the fiduciary requirements of our people and decided the ideal institution would be a trust company with that fiduciary capacity. As a result, we are incorporated as a trust company in British Columbia. That is a contributing factor to our success as well; to be successful, you need to have the governance structure in place. We have embraced that regulation, which has helped us put the government tools in place to manage the company. If there are any politics involved, we try and separate that; but having this regulated institution has allowed us to move forward and focus on business only.
Our original share value of $1 has grown to $9.16, allowing us to provide a return for our investors. They have received over 50 per cent of their original investment and we have consistently been profitable. There have been challenges, including loan losses, but they have not been sufficient to erode our original capital.
All Nations Trust Company has financed over 1,000 businesses and injected more than $45.9 million into the Aboriginal economy in British Columbia through loans. That sum, which represents 50 to 60 per cent of overall project costs, has helped to create jobs. At the same time, the failure and bad debt ratio incurred by our company as a result of these loans has been less than 5 per cent since our start-up in 1988.
That proves that we should believe in our people — we do want to do business and we do honour our commitments. Certainly, our shareholders have honoured theirs to this company and allowed it to grow.
We are Aboriginal-owned, Aboriginal-governed and 100 per cent Aboriginal-staffed. That example is very difficult to find in Canada. We had to believe in ourselves and build our capacity to be able to manage this company. Our motto is, "We honour our commitments and we expect others to honour theirs." We protect the best interests of the company and build accountability to our shareholders.
Originally, All Nations Trust Company received seed funding from the Department of Industry, Science and Technology through the native economic development program — a total of $6.75 million for lending. We have doubled the value of the company through retained earnings and other sources of funding.
However, regular financial institutions have access to loan guarantee instruments, which are not available to us even though we are in the highest risk category with developmental lending. Our clients often are new businesses with no proven track record; it is not something that your banks would finance.
We are trying to find some kind of a risk premium offset tool to assist us. I believe we are one of 31 Aboriginal Capital Corporations that are still operating in Canada, so this tool would help would not only All Nations Trust Company, but all the Aboriginal lending institutions across Canada. If there was one area where government could help us, it would be to provide some kind of a tool to assist us to mitigate high-risk lending.
The other challenging area is the capacity of communities and individuals to move forward into business. There can be grants available, but the capacity is not there to access them. As a financial institution, we do have a business advisory arm; that is where we do rely on government program funding to provide business advisory services and capacity building. You need that support to be successful and to ensure fair access.
The federal government has recognized this need by putting in place business services officers who provide pre-and post-loan care. They give borrowers a good understanding of the risks that they have taken and the security that they have pledged, and provide ongoing support after the business is in operation.
However, we need more of a one-window concept federally. We had INAC, which was involved in economic development; we have Aboriginal Business Canada; we have the regional agencies; we have Western Economic Diversification Canada, who has financed some Community Futures Development Corporations, which are provided operating funds. On the other hand, Aboriginal Capital Corporations, which serve large regions, do not have access to any operating costs. We are not asking for operating costs, but level the playing field.
In some cases, we have had successes where an Aboriginal Capital Corporation has had a Community Futures Development Corporation attached to it. If there are two in an area in close proximity, we should look at amalgamation, which would enhance the viability and protect the millions of dollars that have been invested in your capital corporations. For future generations, we will need financial institutions to meet the business financing requirements.
We also provide consumer mortgages, which brings us to the issue of security on-reserve. People want to get into home ownership; they do not want to rely on social housing on-reserve, but it is challenging. Even with Sun Rivers, it is challenging to finance there.
On leasehold property, if the borrower does not have more than a 25 per cent down payment for that home, you still require a ministerial guarantee if you are a status Indian. That is okay if you are from that reserve. However, as a status Indian from another band who resides in Kamloops, I cannot buy a home there unless I can put more than 25 per cent down. The reason for that is that the band should not be expected to provide guarantees for people who are not from their reserve — so there are still issues.
I think there has to be the paradigm shift from social housing. There will always be a demand for social housing for Aboriginal peoples, but we need to open that window of opportunity for home ownership. There are some programs available, and we are doing some capacity building and sharing of knowledge with the bands to let them know what the options are. However, there are still major challenges, and our basic housing needs are not being met.
The other area that we are looking at is loans. We have provided loans of up to $1 million dollars, which is not the norm, as well as loans as small as $5,000. While the demand for larger loans and larger business ventures is occurring, we still have barriers with the regular financial institutions.
We are now looking at raising private capital. We are setting up an Aboriginal private equity fund, targeting older businesses whose owners are looking at moving on — purchasing and helping to transition Aboriginal ownership to take over those businesses in the five-year term. We cannot stagnate and just look at small businesses; we have to look at ways of financing larger businesses as well, and facilitating ownership in those businesses.
Mr. Jules is absolutely correct; our dollars do not stay and circulate within our own communities. We have to focus on changing that in home ownership and in ownership of businesses. I am open for any questions.
Senator Lovelace Nicholas: Ms. Williams, I am glad to see there were 23 per cent of women in business. What happens to the women who apply if they are on social assistance? Do they need to have 25 per cent down of the loan?
Ms. Williams: No, not with the loans. We ask for 10 per cent. We have gone as low as 5 per cent in cash and 5 per cent in other sweat equity.
Senator Lovelace Nicholas: What happens to the people who want to own homes that are on social assistance?
Ms. Williams: I am sorry, I misinterpreted your question. I thought you were talking about business, but you are talking about home ownership. If you do not meet the acid test of having sufficient income, then you do not have access to ownership.
Senator Lovelace Nicholas: What happens when they cannot come up with the payment of these loans for the homes? Who owns these homes in these communities; is it the CMHC?
Ms. Williams: They are CMHC-insured. If they do not make their mortgage payments, we go to CMHC to pay off the loan and then we have a home that is available for sale.
Senator Lovelace Nicholas: Is it for sale to people other than people from that community?
Ms. Williams: Each community differs. Some state that unless you are a community member, a band member, you cannot own property on that reserve. That is the issue of mobility that we face. It is very difficult to transfer that unit unless there is someone in that band that wishes to purchase that home.
Senator Lovelace Nicholas: What per cent contribution does the borrower have to put toward the loan?
Ms. Williams: We ask for a minimum of 10 per cent equity. However, we have been able to accept as low as 5 per cent in cash and 5 per cent in other sources, whether it would be sweat equity, et cetera. We focus a lot on the character of the borrower, because that is the most reliable factor when you do not have a proven track record.
Senator Zimmer: Ms. Williams, I commend you on your Aboriginal economic structure of being 100 per cent owned, governed and staffed. That is outstanding.
One of my causes as a new member of the Senate is youth around the world. I am always interested in their involvement because they inspire me. Under your business impact section, you indicate "youth business loans." What type of economic developments are they in, if any, and how successful have they been in their ventures?
Ms. Williams: The loan-loss ratio for our youth loans is under 3 per cent. They are successful and they are repaying their loans. Some are utilizing opportunities that have been created within their own communities. For example, one had a logging show and a mill; they were able to build on the opportunities that were created as a result of that.
There have been several that are involved in technology. It seems to come with their age — they have no fear and they can move forward with that. Others have been involved in tourism activities — guiding, boating, et cetera. They are quite creative and we are thrilled to be involved in it. We have a loan portfolio specifically for them, so we track the numbers of applicants. We also have advisory services and support for them.
It takes a bit more massaging, but we find that communities help as well. In some cases, they have helped their young people realize these opportunities by backing them with a band guarantee.
Senator Zimmer: Is there an age restriction to be considered for the loan? Second, do you treat them the same way as you would for other loans that you do with the seniors?
Ms. Williams: There is federal funding available through Aboriginal Business Canada, and there was another program available through Indian and Northern Affairs. One had youth identified as 29 years old. Now, the longer you are around, the older you can be — it is about 35 — so there have been changes in the age category. What was the second question?
Senator Zimmer: Do you treat them the same way as non-youth? Are the same restrictions and standards in place?
Ms. Williams: Equity requirements are the same; however, I cannot say that we treat them the same. We are committed to going that extra yard with them, and also finding mentors for them in the community.
Senator Zimmer: Well, it is the right direction.
Senator Campbell: Looking at your annual report, who covers the northwest and Vancouver and the Lower Mainland?
Ms. Williams: The Aboriginal Capital Corporation that covers the northwest is TRICORP (Tribal Resources Investment Corporation), which is located in Prince Rupert. The one that covers the coast and the southern tip of the island is Tale'awtxw, in Chilliwack, which was started by the Stó:lõ Nation. The one that is on the island, which is a model for success, is the Nuu-chah-nulth Economic Development Corporation. They are a combined Aboriginal Capital Corporation and a Community Futures Development Corporation, which has really lent to their success, because they have both operating and business development support.
Senator Campbell: Do these four organizations, including yours, together in any way?
Ms. Williams: In B.C., we have an association of Aboriginal financial institutions, which includes the Aboriginal Capital Corporations, a couple of the Community Futures Development Corporations, Haida Gwaii Trust and those that provide business advisory services as well. As you can see from that, our delivery area is very large; therefore, the extra costs of delivery are extremely high for us.
Senator Christensen: How have you developed your company using Aboriginals? What sort of programs do you have in-house for your employees to give them potential for growth?
Ms. Williams: It is based on belief in ourselves — bringing people in at entry level, using the other resources internally to develop their skills and hone them specifically for that job. We are fortunate; five years is the shortest period of time that a staff member has been with us, other than a new position I have just hired for. The rest have been there almost since the beginning.
We believe in providing access to training for their development. We have been paid back a hundredfold by their commitment to the company and by the historical knowledge that they have.
Senator Christensen: Do you have an educational requirement when you are hiring?
Ms. Williams: Yes and no. We do have some minimum requirements, but we look more at relevant experience and suitability. We focus a lot on suitability. If a person is committed and keenly interested, you can develop them to handle pretty well any position.
Senator Christensen: Do you have a lot of applicants when you are seeking a new employee?
Ms. Williams: Yes. In Kamloops, we are known as the company to work for.
Senator St. Germain: You said that you were doing residential mortgages. How much of your business would that be?
Ms. Williams: If you look at our outstanding loan portfolio, we have done $35 million in business development loans; of that, $6 million was in mortgages.
The Chairman: Thank you, Ms. Williams. We would next like to invite Ms. Chambers to the table.
Brenda Chambers, Owner, Brenco Media Inc.: Good morning, senators. I am an Aboriginal entrepreneur and filmmaker who has been living in Kelowna for two years now, and I truly enjoy it.
For the next few minutes, I will share a brief series of observations, all tempered by 20 years of experience in the Aboriginal world of Canada. I hope they will provide focus and insight. Yours is a vital challenge, in my view, as First Nations are increasingly taking their rightful place in the social and economic mainstream of Canada. It is a time of great change.
Let me begin with a bit of background. I was born in Whitehorse, Yukon. I am Tlingit and Southern Tutchone, and am a proud member of the Champagne and Aishihik First Nations.
I was captivated from the start by a love of television and documentary filmmaking. As a young woman, I held a variety of jobs in the field of communications and media — always in the direction of broadcasting and filmmaking, to tell my family and community stories.
After graduating from high school in Whitehorse, I attended a series of post-secondary institutions, including Grant MacEwan College in Edmonton, Ryerson and Yukon College. In each, I learned as much as I could about communications and the media, as well as the business and production of filmmaking.
From day one of my studies, I knew I wanted to use my skills to inspire, encourage and reflect the lives of Canada's Aboriginal people. I was determined to use the power of film and television to tell the stories about this country's First Nations and give hope to my community. From the outset, I rejected the politics of victimization and turned instead to seeing the stories of triumph and opportunities.
During the past 20 years, I have traveled this vast country personally to visit First Nations communities from sea to sea to sea. In a series of shows, my production company and my crew have interviewed Aboriginal people from every walk of life — from isolated rural communities such as Nain, Labrador, Iqaluit, Nunavut, Yellowknife, to those trapped in what has accurately been described as the disgrace of Vancouver's downtown east side or Winnipeg's gang culture.
I have seen the hardships, sorrow and suffering, but I also saw much more than that — that entrepreneurship in the Aboriginal community is alive and well. My productions offer documented and living proof of the indomitable spirit of many Aboriginal people as they press on for better jobs, better housing and better lives for their children.
We in the media have to watch out for our language. Sometimes we can overstate things or exaggerate for effect, but I am not exaggerating here. First Nations in this country have started a renaissance that will gather steam in years to come. I am convinced, despite the naysaying of a few pundits, that if Aboriginal people assume their rightful place in the Canadian landscape, the makeup of this country will change forever for the better — and it is about time.
In order for this to happen, we need to have enlightened policies that can help make it happen. Before I share some observations, let me first set you at ease; I am not talking about throwing more money at old problems — far from it.
A century after colonization, we have all learned many things. First, money alone is not the answer. We will have to reorganize our priorities; and, to make things better, do things smarter. I also want to address a critical issue here that has been called a dirty little secret of the Indian country. I will be more formal and charitable and call it the gender gap.
Please consider that before colonization, the Indian Act, INAC and band politics, Aboriginal women commanded the highest respect. They were known in our communities as the givers of life. How times have changed.
Today, the law has failed to protect the matrimonial property rights of First Nations women living on-reserve and leadership in many Aboriginal communities is overwhelmingly male-dominated. Aboriginal women aged 25 to 44 are five times more likely than other Canadian women of the same age to die of violence. An Aboriginal woman living in the city will likely have to face problems associated with poverty, racism, unemployment, childcare issues and possibly addictions.
Aboriginal communities are starting to grapple with this thorny problem, starting to take a hard look at a situation that hobbles one half of the Aboriginal population. It simply is not good enough; and as Aboriginal women, we will change things.
There is good news here, too. In spite of these structural impediments, Aboriginal women are steadily making their presence known in this country. They are now becoming CEOs, politicians, chiefs, lawyers, doctors and filmmakers. These are the mothers, sisters, aunties and friends from our communities, who have faced tremendous hardships but still have found their strength to realize their dreams.
More Aboriginal women are establishing their own businesses and changing the Aboriginal economy in the process. In fact, the growth in the number of self-employed Aboriginal women is double that for women generally. I am very proud to say I am one of them; and in my latest documentary series, I will explore these stories in more detail.
Let me turn to another issue that needs some enlightened policy changes. Aboriginal programs, businesses and services need to have the financial resources to tell their stories of entrepreneurship. Government departments such as INAC and Aboriginal Business Canada should be encouraging these departments to support the telling of these stories of Aboriginal economic development. When it comes to broadcasting, INAC, ABC, Health Canada and other government departments have so much money tied up in Aboriginal communities but very little for letting Canadians know what the program is about.
Housing is one example. We can teach Aboriginal communities to maintain and care for their homes and show visual examples on how to set up maintenance programs, rather than throw money at building new homes that, statistically, have a very short life. Home maintenance and upkeep will instill pride in one's home.
I sincerely hope that you will take some time to consider my brief. It is a tiny snapshot of my beliefs and my life's work. I will never give up, because this is my community and I truly want it to be fruitful, progressive and, most of all, something for our young people to strive for — and that is hope. With hope, believe me, you can do anything.
The Chairman: Ms. Chambers, could you tell us a little bit about your company and your activities — some of your current projects to give us an idea of what you are doing?
Ms. Chambers: I am a television producer that produces an Aboriginal business series called Venturing Forth, which is profiled in 85 half-hour episodes across the country. I also helped create television networks such as Television Northern Canada and the Aboriginal Peoples' Television Network as a consultant. Currently, I am producing another series called "Overcoming Obstacles," looking at the success stories and the biggest challenges of our communities.
Senator St. Germain: You mentioned INAC. Are you getting any business or support through government? What is your client base?
Ms. Chambers: My client base is varied. People say, "How do you make your programs when you cannot get any sponsorship anymore to tell these stories?" I am not the CBC. Some people do think I am a network unto myself, because the telling of these stories is so amazing. The first couple of years of the program, I did get some support from Aboriginal Business Canada and INAC. In the last two years, INAC has not supported the series and telling of these stories in any way.
Senator St. Germain: Are these Aboriginal stories?
Ms. Chambers: Yes.
Senator St. Germain: Do you tie in with bands or certain First Nations to do a story? Would you go to the Haida, for instance?
Ms. Chambers: It is a variety of ways and every season is quite different. We have had some private corporations; for example, the Royal Bank has been a sponsor of these stories every season. No one band has ever come on board. A couple of smaller First Nation companies that have a story that they want to tell are tied within the program.
Senator Zimmer: Ms. Chambers, thank you for giving us another perspective from another angle — that being the media, television and a woman's views of that.
In Winnipeg, we have APTN, the Aboriginal Peoples' Television Network, which started up a couple of years ago. We also have the Women's Television Network, headed up by Joanne Levy. Are you planning to do any joint ventures with those types of networks?
Ms. Chambers: A young person that is working with my company in Vancouver is actually contacting the Women's Television Network to see if some of the profiles that we have done on women can be shown on their network. We have a huge library and a number of stories that we have profiled, and I have a meeting with Joanne Levy on Friday at noon in Vancouver to discuss that.
Also, I am looking at producing a tourism series on high definition and talking to other television sources such as National Geographic and Canadian Geographic about it. I have a sports series in the works as well.
Senator Zimmer: Ms. Levy a tremendous background in this area. She began with Craig Television in Alberta, when they started the two stations there. Could you do me a favour and give her my best regards when you see her?
Ms. Chambers: Absolutely.
Senator Christensen: Where is your company headquartered now?
Ms. Chambers: Here; it is a virtual network. I work by the project. For this series, I hire about 40 to 50 freelancers; they are their own businesses as well and a lot of them are Aboriginal women.
Senator Christensen: Do you have any permanent staff?
Ms. Chambers: No, there is just myself.
Senator Christensen: When you decide on a project that you are going to develop, you pull together a group of people to do it; but you need to have sponsorship before you can do that. You have a conceptual idea; you look for sponsorship to do it and then you sell the finished product to a TV network — is that right?
Ms. Chambers: Yes, but once we get the licence from the network — once I pitch a series idea and the network says, "Yes, we are interested" — then I have to go out and prove that I can raise the money for that program.
Senator Christensen: Is that the way you started as well?
Ms. Chambers: I started working in the Yukon at Northern Native Broadcasting, which was a television, radio and post-production facility. I spent a number of years there and ended up being the general manager; I left about eight years ago.
Senator Christensen: Have you been on your own since then?
Ms. Chambers: Yes.
Senator Christensen: You develop and put things together, but you do not have an office; you are it.
Ms. Chambers: No, I have a home office, which has quite a bit there. I do not have a post-production facility; I have a relationship with a couple of different post-production facilities in Vancouver and, if need be, in other locations across Canada
Senator Christensen: Are you approached by any of the First Nations for things that they want done by an Aboriginal person like yourself?
Ms. Chambers: Yes, quite a bit; and I spend a lot of time educating the community about the importance of communications and the expense of television productions.
Senator Christensen: Do you do workshops in the communities?
Ms. Chambers: Yes, I do some workshops as well. I am teaching a group of young people in Penticton tomorrow, and I have also helped start up a film and TV program at Capilano College in Vancouver.
Senator Campbell: I have a little knowledge of the TV industry from Da Vinci's Inquest. We seem to be looking at this from the point of view of interest to First Nations, whereas perhaps we should be looking at an interest from Canadians in general. For instance, as soon as you started talking about it, I immediately thought of Venture on CBC. These are the kinds of stories that they are looking for — success stories that can give other people some idea of how they can move forward.
I know how tough it is to get money out of any of these networks, but is there sense that CBC should be involved in this as a funder? If not as a funder, have you thought of them as an avenue for your documentaries to be aired?
Ms. Chambers: Absolutely; I have been knocking on CBC's door my whole life.
Senator Campbell: I do not think you can knock on their door; you have to kick it down.
Ms. Chambers: I put together an Aboriginal unit in Vancouver and we did four shows; it was a current affairs program called All my Relations. One of the people that worked on it is now an anchor with the CBC, Carla Robinson.
She was also working on that program and they ran out of money. They kept me on for a little bit, but you know what? It is always going to be the CBC's point of view; it will not be a true Aboriginal perspective, so I will do it myself. I will create a series and tell Aboriginal stories about Aboriginal business and get it them to buy it later on.
We have done six seasons and we still cannot get access to Newsworld or CBC.
Senator Campbell: How about the documentary channel?
Ms. Chambers: I have not had that opportunity. We are on educational broadcasters, but the licence fee is incredibly small.
Senator Campbell: That is a shame, because we keep hearing about Canadian content, Canadian stories — and the CBC's another issue. I wish you all the best. I think your projects need to be aired. Maybe if the door gets kicked out in CBC and I slide in, I will give you a shout.
Senator Lovelace Nicholas: I am from a small community and I know there is a lot of violence against women in the communities. What inspired you to do this kind of work?
Ms. Chambers: I have an incredible family of storytellers. From a very young age, I knew that I wanted to be very passionate about the work that I would do for the rest of my life. In high school, the curriculum certainly was not Aboriginal-focused. I was very shy when I was younger, but I blossomed when I got into high school and I said, "This curriculum is not good enough. Where is the Aboriginal curriculum?"
It became clear that the answer was just to create it. I will not say it was easy for me, but it was easier in terms of understanding what I needed to do for my life's work.
Senator Lovelace Nicholas: How do you pick what communities to go to?
Ms. Chambers: We try to create a balance within the series of going everywhere. Nunavut and the North is very expensive. I was born in the Yukon and I love the North; I have travelled the North extensively, both teaching and visiting as we were creating Television Northern Canada, the northern network prior to the Aboriginal People's Television Network.
I wish I could profile more of those stories from the North, but it is challenging. Every season, we do something out of the Northwest Territories, the Yukon, Nunavut and Atlantic Canada. We try to balance it out in terms of the stories and make sure that we are represented, because it is a national program.
Senator Lovelace Nicholas: Have you tried contacting the Native Women's Association of Canada to go to these other communities to address this issue?
Ms. Chambers: We are talking to them right now about this series, because we are doing a half-hour documentary series about Aboriginal women and some of the struggles.
Senator Zimmer: To follow up on Senator Campbell's comment about approaching other networks, E Channel, Craig Broadcasting, gave a substantial amount to Lisa Meeches — I think up to $1 million or $2 million — to do her own program. I think it is a great avenue; you may want to follow it up. I know Shaw has taken it over, but there may be some budget that they have created. Joanne Levy was there so you may want to raise that with her.
The Chairman: If there are no further questions, I want to thank you for your presentation. I have no doubt you are a real inspiration to women and the younger people, and we wish you well in your future endeavours.
The committee adjourned.