Proceedings of the Standing Committee on
Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration
Issue 3 - Evidence for October 27, 2005
OTTAWA, Thursday, October 27, 2005
The Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration met this day at 8:35 a.m. in camera to consider administrative and other matters.
Senator George J. Furey (Chairman) in the chair.
The committee resumed in public.
[English]
Mr. Paul C. Bélisle, Clerk of the Senate and Clerk of the Committee: We are in public now to deal with the first three agenda items.
The Chairman: The first item is an application for international travel from Senator Buchanan.
Senator Buchanan: I think you all have the application in front of you. This is the annual event in Boston sponsored by the New England-Canada Business Council and also through the New England governors. It is the 21st annual Maple Leaf Banquet. Six hundred people attend this event, representing British Columbia energy, Western Canadian energy, Ontario hydro, Quebec hydro, and various business and trade groups from those provinces and the Atlantic provinces. Various premiers attend from time to time, as I did when this event started in 1984.
Last year, in honour of the 20th anniversary, the Maple Leaf Foundation presented the first Distinguished Canadian Award to John Buchanan, a member of the Senate of Canada and former premier of Nova Scotia. I have a beautiful colour picture here of myself and the people who made the presentation to me.
This year, Stan Keyes will be a special guest, as will I. I will be speaking and will be presented with a medal. They have asked me to make the presentation to the second inductee, who will be an American. I think it will be Paul Cellucci, although I am not positive.
This event was first held in 1984. There is an exchange program sponsored by the Maple Leaf Foundation between Canadian and American cities, primarily Boston. The first one was between Halifax and Boston in 1984. Since then, exchanges have been done with British Columbia, Western Canada, Ontario and Quebec. This year, Holy Heart High School from St. John's, Newfoundland, exchanged with Josiah Quincy Upper School in Boston. That visit has already taken place, and the students from St. John's had a wonderful time. I have a write-up here by them about that visit.
I have been elected an honorary member of the New England-Canada Business Council, so I would like to go again this year. I have participated in this every year, primarily with the energy and trade sectors. This is a great way to promote Canada-U.S. relationships and has been for the last 19 years.
The Chairman: Are there any questions of Senator Buchanan?
Senator De Bané: Mr. Chairman, I would like to support wholeheartedly this application of my colleague. He has been a pillar of that association for many years, as premier and as a senator, and he is an authority on the issue of energy. It is our duty to approve this application.
I suggest that it is not prudent to guarantee that the cost that is written here is a maximum because airline tickets can vary. Therefore, it should be subject to producing the invoices, as we do for all our expenses. It could be higher. The trip will take place soon so it could very well be more than this. He should not be constrained by the amount of the fare that we have here. However, we should not hesitate to approve this application.
Senator Buchanan: Mr. Chairman, could I interject about the fare? The original amount was wrong because it was for a month and a half in advance. Being one to want to save the Senate money, the ticket price now is for a seven-day trip, but it must be purchased by midnight tonight to get that special fare. That is all.
The Chairman: Before we go to Senator Massicotte and Senator Robichaud, I noticed on your application, Senator Buchanan, that the air transportation was for two.
Senator Buchanan: Yes.
The Chairman: Our policy does not allow for payment for spouses.
Senator Buchanan: Okay. I will still take her.
Senator Massicotte: Senator Buchanan, you mentioned you have been going every year. We just changed the international policy four or five months ago. Who paid in the previous years?
Senator Buchanan: The Energy Committee, but they do not have the budget this year.
[Translation]
Senator Robichaud: I always have a problem with using Senate resources. The Honourable Senator Prud'homme will recall that in the past, some applications for travel submitted by him were denied.
Senator Prud'homme: In light of what you said, I decided at the time to let matters be. I incurred expenses totaling $5,000.
Senator Robichaud: The policy has since changed. We can now use our points. But the fact remains that once again, the Senate and the taxpayers are subsidizing our travels. Consequently, I do have some reservations. I do not like the fact that a spouse can accompany a senator on a trip. In the past, I have had to turn down some opportunities to travel because my spouse was unable to join me given the cost that would entail. Therefore, I do have some reservations about this whole matter.
The Chairman: Are there any further questions concerning Senator Buchanan's application?
[English]
Thank you very much, Senator Buchanan. The second item on our agenda is an application from Senator Plamondon.
[Translation]
Senator Plamondon: This particular invitation is to attend a gathering of Parliamentarians Global Action for Immigration, Migration and Integration.
I serve on the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce. This committee has heard testimony on a number of occasions on demographics and productivity. I am greatly interested in this topic.
Last year, I traveled to Strasbourg to attend a symposium on demographic movement. An area of interest to me is demographic movement owing to drought conditions. According to leading American intellectual Lester Brown, this phenomenon is poised to become a global economic problem. I spent the better part of a day sitting in on his workshop and I was very impressed. Moreover, I am in the process of writing a paper on potable water. I feel that I am in a position to offer an enlightened opinion on this subject.
I have budgeted for minimal expenses, since we often receive an upgrade. I believe the air fare to London will be $478, plus the additional fare from London to Dublin. The amounts are accurate.
I was the only one interested in making this trip, apart from Senator Andreychuk. Originally, the invitation came to me from Mr. Kilger's office. Since no one else had expressed an interest in going, I thought about it, because I am very interested in this topic. I think Senator Massicotte would be interested as well, since he was the one who raised the demographics issue with the committee.
I would like you to approve this expenditure, which represents less than $2,000.
[English]
The Chairman: I have one question before we go to Senator De Bané. Your air transportation to Dublin is $700. How will you get there for $700?
[Translation]
Senator Plamondon: Prior to my appointment to the Senate, I never really spent a great deal. I though it was outrageous to spend $4,000 on an airline ticket to London. By checking out the Internet, I found a flight to London for $478. I can use a small airline to travel to Dublin. I have upgrade cards and I can use them for my flight to London.
[English]
The Chairman: There are some fares, senator, for which you cannot use it.
[Translation]
Senator Plamondon: I can travel economy class.
[English]
The Chairman: You are entitled to the same privileges as any other senator when travelling. We will discuss that later. I just wanted to know how you would do it at such a low cost.
Senator De Bané: Mr. Chairman, I would like to support this application of our colleague. She has always been interested in that topic; and again, it seems self-evident that we should allow her to go.
I was there when that program was established by your predecessor, Roméo LeBlanc, and his philosophy was that senators should be able to attend international conferences on something of great interest to them. I do not understand why, if I want to go anywhere in Canada, even if it costs a lot more than what Senator Plamondon is proposing, I do not have to ask anyone. I can do it with my points. Here we have an issue that is very important to our colleague, and I would like to support wholeheartedly her application.
The Chairman: Colleagues, may I just remind you that our present forum is just one — with the greatest of respect, Senator De Bané — for asking questions of the applicants. The support issues we can deal with in camera when we are finished with the questions. This is an opportunity to put any questions to the senator regarding the actual application.
Senator De Bané: I apologize. I have read her entire document — the application, the rationale, everything — but I am sorry.
The Chairman: That is okay, Senator De Bané. Are there any questions for Senator Plamondon?
[Translation]
Senator Massicotte: Will Senator Andreychuk also be making the trip?
Senator Plamondon: Yes, as she is a member of the board of directors.
[English]
The Chairman: Okay? Thank you very much, Senator Plamondon.
Our next item on the agenda is the application of Senator Rompkey.
Senator Stratton: I vote no!
Senator Robichaud: I second the motion.
The Chairman: Welcome, Senator Rompkey.
Senator Rompkey: You find out who your friends are. This is an application, Mr. Chairman, to travel to Arras, France, which is near the site of the Battle of Beaumont Hamel, which, as you and Senator Cook will know, was part of the Battle of the Somme in the First World War.
It is seared into the minds of Newfoundlanders because Newfoundland was the only colony to raise its own regiment, under difficult circumstances, I might add. The Royal Newfoundland Regiment was almost completely wiped out. Of the 800 who went over the top on July 1, roughly 100 answered roll call the next morning. I have been invited by the RNR to travel with them. This is the 90th anniversary of the Battle of the Somme and the Battle of Beaumont Hamel, and the regiment has invited me to accompany them. I tried to assist the regiment with its travel arrangements to France, so that is basically the application. It is roughly the same amount as a trip to St. John's, Newfoundland, as far as I can tell, in terms of airfare and hotel costs.
The Chairman: Senator Rompkey, is your air transportation for one person?
Senator Rompkey: Yes.
The Chairman: Are there any questions, senators?
Senator Rompkey: One economy ticket is requested.
Senator Massicotte: The senator is flying economy class. You have the right to fly business class.
Senator Rompkey: Yes, but I cannot find a ticket. We have worked with our regular travel agent to establish these figures, and this is the best that we can find at the moment.
Senator Stratton: If you could find an upgrade, would you do that?
Senator Rompkey: Yes, if I am able to find a seat. To date I have not been able to identify one.
Senator Stratton: It would be reflected in the cost.
Senator Rompkey: I have an upgrade, if I am able to use it.
[Translation]
Senator Prud'homme: This is the Year of the Veteran. It is a very important year in Canada. The Minister of Veterans Affairs, Ms. Guarnieri, is overseeing a number of events to mark this occasion.
My question is quite simple. Could we possibly ask Ms. Guarnieri to appoint you as an official delegate? I have discussed a project with her and I noted that she was very open to suggestions, given that this is the Year of the Veteran.
Senator Massicotte: Is that taking place in 2005 or 2006?
Senator Prud'homme: In 2006.
[English]
The Chairman: Senator Rompkey, do you wish to respond?
Senator Rompkey: The problem is that it is difficult to wait for something like that. I want to take my wife on my points, and if you want to book using points, then you have to do so months in advance. We have found a seat for her on points. You also have to book hotel space. If you have not booked hotel space by now, then you are out of luck. We have had to do all of that. I cannot wait for a hypothetical question to be answered. If I am to go, I have to act now in order to protect space and seats.
Senator De Bané: Mr. Chairman, I would like to put a question. Senator Rompkey, you have received a letter from Mr. Browne of the Royal Newfoundland Regiment Advisory Council insisting that you attend that event. In response to Mr. Browne, you said in your letter that in view of your intense involvement with Canada's marines:
There is no event that has more meaning for the people of my province. It would be a great honour for me to be part of the commemorative event.
Would you explain to the committee why it is so important for Newfoundlanders to attend this event?
Senator Rompkey: In Newfoundland, July 1 is Canada Day, but more significantly, it is the anniversary of the Battle of Beaumont Hamel. We were not Canadians in the First World War, as you are aware. We were a small island population, and yet we raised our own regiment when Canada was still a colony. Canada did not become a dominion until 1931. We sustained the regiment throughout the First World War. In the Battle of Beaumont Hamel in 1916, the regiment was virtually wiped out. An entire generation of my people was lost. That battle is seared into the minds and the consciousness of our people; it is significant. When July 1 comes around, recognizing the Battle of Beaumont Hamel is foremost in the minds of Newfoundlanders. That is how important it is. It is one of the most significant dates in our history, and it is very important to all of us.
Senator De Bané: Thank you for that explanation.
Senator Keon: Mr. Chairman, we have a responsibility to the people of Newfoundland to send Senator Rompkey. I so move.
The Chairman: I would ask Senator Keon to wait on the motion until we entertain the question. We will come back to you, Senator Keon.
The committee continued in camera.