Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Aboriginal Peoples
Issue 4 - Evidence - Meeting of September 26, 2006 - Morning
SASKATOON, Tuesday, September 26, 2006
The Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples met this day at 9:02 a.m. to examine and report on the involvement of Aboriginal communities and businesses in economic development activities in Canada.
Senator Gerry St. Germain (Chairman) in the chair.
[English]
The Chairman: As chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples. it is my pleasure to welcome you to today's hearings. First, I wish to thank the Cree and the Metis people on whose ancestral lands we gather.
Honourable senators, elders, guests, members of the audience, our committee has been mandated to study the involvement of Aboriginal communities and businesses in economic development activities in Canada. This study started in the last Parliament under the leadership of our colleague Senator Sibbeston, who was chair of the committee at the time. We have heard from many witnesses in Ottawa and we held public hearings last fall in British Columbia and Alberta.
Senator Sibbeston and I also visited some locations in the Northwest Territories in March of 2005. Yesterday we were on a fact-finding mission in Lac La Ronge. This week the committee will hear from a number of witnesses here in Saskatoon and then travel to Winnipeg and Thunder Bay before returning to Ottawa, where more evidence will be gathered.
In undertaking this study, the committee's objective is to determine the conditions that foster or hinder economic development in Aboriginal communities. Before us today as our first witness we have Guy Lonechild, Interim Chief of the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations. I understand the FSIN represents 74 nations in Saskatchewan. Mr. Lonechild, welcome to you and to your adviser, Bob Kayseas.
Guy Lonechild, Interim Chief, Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations: Thank you very much, and good morning to honourable senators and to the people who have joined us this morning for this very important meeting. I will introduce Mr. Bob Kayseas who is working on his PhD in entrepreneurism. Also with us today are two observers from the Saskatoon Credit Union, the chief executive officer and the vice-president of retail operations and support staff. As well, we have with us some of our staff from FSIN.
On behalf of the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations, the FSIN Senate and Saskatchewan First Nations chiefs and councillors, I am very pleased and honoured to discuss these issues with such an important committee.
Chiefs and councillors of Saskatchewan are encouraged by the establishment of the Senate Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and its public hearings. Your recommendations will have a significant impact on government policy in the coming years. For this reason, it is very important for your committee to echo our words, to be our voice in Parliament. We work very hard as advocates for Saskatchewan First Nations people across Canada. However, many of the issues that we deal with are very complex and multidimensional; they require collective action.
Statistics Canada reported that Saskatchewan's overall population was 963,150 in the 2001 Census. As of December 31, 2002, our registered Saskatchewan Indian population totalled 111,635, with an on-reserve population of 56,564 and an off-reserve population of 55,071.
In 1997, the Auditor General of Canada reported on the major socioeconomic factors affecting the health of First Nations. It was reported that significantly lower levels of education were experienced by Saskatchewan's First Nations, as well as inadequate housing conditions, high unemployment, low incomes and welfare dependency.
In 2006 the Auditor General followed up on 37 recommendations that its office had made in respect to five organizations that dealt with First Nations issues. The 37 recommendations covered housing on reserves, economic development, third party interventions, health care, the food mail program and the comprehensive land claims process. The Auditor General reported that First Nations are still challenged by high rates of unemployment, poverty and healthcare issues, and although the federal government spent over $8 billion in 2004-2005 on First Nations, conditions for most First Nations people still remain significantly below the national average.
The Auditor General also reported that of the 37 recommendations made, the 15 that were most important to the lives and well-being of First Nations people had received an unsatisfactory response from the federal government.
What does this mean? We, too, believe that the federal government's approach to First Nations and Aboriginal issues has been unsatisfactory. The FSIN works for 74 First Nations in Saskatchewan. We regularly visit these communities and see firsthand the substandard and overcrowded housing conditions, high unemployment, the high dependency on welfare and on government transfers. We echo the sentiments of the Assembly of First Nations as expressed by Regional Chief Goodstriker that economic development is a forceful determinant of the social well-being of First Nations communities and that indirect measures do produce indirect outcomes.
It saddens us to see that not much has changed in our communities. We see the annual budget of Indian and Northern Affairs Canada increased by 1.6 per cent between 1999 and 2004 while the status Indian population increased by 11.2 per cent. Each year, billions of dollars are allocated to First Nations yet we do not see results. It is clear that a new strategy must be formulated, one that encompasses the needs, dreams, goals and aspirations of First Nations.
Many First Nations have a strong desire to become active participants in local, regional and national economies. There is a strong desire to create new social and economic institutions that are suited to the culture and traditions of our forefathers. We believe that the Assembly of First Nations' publication, First Nations Economic Blueprint, is a sound strategy at the national level. However, we firmly believe that the FSIN has a pivotal role to play in Saskatchewan at the regional level in order to ensure that when a national strategy is developed, it will be effectively implemented in the province of Saskatchewan.
In my presentation I will briefly describe barriers to economic development and case studies of three First Nations well on the way to reaching economic self-sufficiency. Then I will outline the recommendations that we wish to make to this committee.
In 2003, a Conference Board of Canada report described the benefits of investing in First Nations' economic and social development by saying:
The benefits of addressing the economic and social challenges facing Aboriginal people outweigh the costs. They require long-term investment and commitment. Lower education levels are major barriers to higher participation in the economy. Education has a higher rate of return than almost any other investment. Efforts should be made to create jobs in order to reduce the unemployment rate for the Registered Indian population that is three times the Canadian average...In order to close the employment, income, economic and social gaps, we need to close the Aboriginal education (education and skills) gap...A well-educated and skilled labour force is critical to a society's social and economic well-being.
Access to capital has been, and continues to be, difficult for many First Nations communities and First Nations people seeking to start, expand or acquire a new business. The Indian Act still creates real and perceived barriers to gaining access to capital. While entrepreneurs living outside the reserve boundaries have had the opportunity to leverage land as equity, this is not possible for the majority of First Nations entrepreneurs. The problem is embedded in the legislative framework that only applies to reserve land.
In relation to lands and resources, the Assembly of First Nations stated that, from a First Nations economic point of view, fundamental access to land and natural resources represent some of the most critical issues faced by First Nations. Many First Nations still experience extremely limited access to resources. There is no process for formalized agreements to allow for benefits to be transferred to First Nations for development activity conducted on traditional territories. More important, there is no process for understanding the effects that development has on traditional economies.
There exists a legislative environment that has much difficulty in working with First Nations' economic interests to progress beyond the framework of the Indian Act. There is no involvement of First Nations in processes and decision- making before lands and resources deals are struck.
Economic development program funding needs to be a priority, with real funding support. The economic development envelope in Saskatchewan has been shrinking for a number of years. In the 2003-04 budget year, Indian and Northern Affairs in Saskatchewan expended $17,288,100, which represented 2.6 per cent of the total expenditure on economic development. In 2004-05, INAC spent $11,137,700, or 1.7 per cent of the total expenditures in this area. In 2005-2006, INAC's expenditure on economic development was $8,635,600, or 1.3 per cent of its overall spending for that year.
Overall funding at the national level is also an important issue. The Auditor General stated that funding increased between 1999 and 2004 by 1.6 per cent. However, First Nations populations increased by 11.2 per cent over that same period.
Another issue related to funding is control of resources. The current system places a high emphasis on INAC departmental priorities instead of recognizing the goals and aspirations of First Nations. Structures should be created to place a higher degree of accountability on First Nations, while at the same time providing more control over where and how economic development funding is allocated.
The current framework does not provide the assistance necessary for communities to consider how to reach people in areas beyond the community boundary. An expansion program needs to be considered to further empower community priorities.
This list is by no means comprehensive. It provides a small example of some of the barriers that First Nations face. Clearly, it is necessary to accomplish more in terms of progress towards this goal.
What can we learn from the manner in which communities such as the Lac La Ronge Indian Band, the Membertou First Nation, the Osoyoos Indian Band progressed from being average First Nations communities with a host of social pathologies to communities that are now often referred to as exemplars of economic development? One important point to note is that the leaders in each of these communities are very open to discussing their stories with almost anyone interested in listening. There are no secrets, as is the case in many businesses. They are very open and willing to share their success stories.
We have spoken to leaders in each of these communities over the course of the last year, and what we found is briefly described in a series of briefing notes in your packages. There are common themes among these communities which may be useful to other First Nations hoping to follow in their footsteps. Each community created an organizational/institutional structure to manage their economic development activities that is separate from chief and council. The separation of business from politics has been discussed at length.
What is unique about these communities is that the institutions they created are not culturally appropriate, as the Harvard Project on American Indian Economic Development has expounded. Each of these communities' economic development arm accessed and utilized all funding resources available, especially those that were offered as grants. These funds provided financial support that the First Nations were lacking in the economic development activities they undertook. Each has developed several partnerships that provide their communities with much needed expertise and outside capital.
Partnerships have provided the communities with more than external financial and human capital. The partnerships that each of these communities have nurtured provide many capacity-building opportunities for band leaders and community members. Band members have had the opportunity to learn how business operates as they progress to the point where they can assume management positions.
With regard to strategic use of whatever resources are available, each of these communities initially exploited one key area. For instance, the Lac La Ronge First Nation, situated in Northern Saskatchewan, has a large population which translates into a large potential labour force. Therefore, they have developed businesses in the sectors that are not capital intensive but, rather, labour intensive.
In conclusion, we would support the important work of the Assembly of First Nations in their 2004 document First Nations and Economic Opportunities, which is the result of the efforts and direction of the AFN Chiefs-in-Assembly. The goals and objectives stated therein were valid then and are even more so today. Government has systematically failed to coordinate and work with First Nations to achieve the goals and objectives put forth by First Nations' governments. We reaffirm and strongly recommend revisiting the recommendations in that document, and we have added several points that we believe could better address regional issues.
The capacity for communities to fully determine their economy is a key issue. While coordinating greater capacity at the local level is a priority, as yet there is a shortfall in First Nations' governments' economic infrastructure. Therefore, investments in new infrastructure, increased funding, and human capital at the community level are required to realize a community's potential. There is a need to improve First Nations' economic infrastructure, their level of economic information and economic education. In addition, assistance is needed to coordinate access to partnering support services when necessary. Efforts must also be made in formalizing roles, joint tasks and relationships.
It is necessary to recognize and build upon the existing infrastructure with First Nations to increase program integration and enhance budgets rather than creating competing programs. Accountability and reporting frameworks need to be adjusted to reflect the Auditor General's findings that First Nations communities and their structures are burdened with excessive reporting requirements. First Nations must be accountable to First Nations.
With respect of providing support structures for First Nations, individuals and collectives who are in receipt of significant financial sums from government, the FSIN and Saskatoon Tribal Council represent First Nations whose individual members in significant numbers will receive financial compensation for abuses relating to the residential school system. The financial compensation creates an opportunity for individuals to further their life goals and improve their financial security. FSIN and the STC encourage their members to build a more prosperous future for themselves, their First Nations communities and for future generations, using the residential school settlement funds received. The federal government must work with First Nations organizations to support receipts of funds such as the residential school settlements in order for individuals to build a lasting, positive legacy from the settlement funds they receive.
Finally, I would like to say to the members of this standing Senate committee that the FSIN, the elders, the chiefs and councillors of Saskatchewan are honoured that you have allowed us the opportunity to come before your committee.
In our FSIN Economic Development Commission Chiefs meeting last week Chief Irvin Starblanket stated, "I am tired of being poor and just being alive. I want to be a part of the wealth creation process so that I can be part of the good life that others take for granted. We have no time to waste. Act now."
Again, I am privileged to be here and acknowledge your good work.
Senator Sibbeston: I will begin by saying thank you for attending before us and presenting the views of the FSIN. I am curious to know what the state is of economic development of First Nations here in Saskatchewan. We had the good fortune yesterday to go to Lac La Ronge and see the business ventures they have there. I suspect that that is not typical for First Nations people in Saskatchewan. Would you care to give us an idea of how many First Nations are really into economic development and see that as a way to go forward?
Mr. Lonechild: Things are quite positive in Saskatchewan. Approximately 2,780 new First Nations businesses have been created in Saskatchewan. According to the 2001 Census, during the period 1998 to 2000, Saskatchewan First Nations and Metis people led the nation in terms of the number of new businesses created. Things looked extremely bright, especially when GAP Equity Funding from INAC was supplemental to other programs that supported community economic development.
The Lac La Ronge experience, as you have seen, demonstrates a clear will of the leadership and the people to create a new relationship, and that started from within the First Nation itself. It took leadership to create Kitsaki Management Limited Partnership, which has resulted in approximately 500 full-time employees, an extra $60 million in financial contributions back to the community and growth income for their various businesses such as Athabasca Catering.
There are many examples, I think, where that model of a limited partnership and the acceptance of the corporate culture, similar to the Lac La Ronge First Nation, would provide a good foundation to build upon.
Here in Saskatchewan, there are many young Aboriginal women who are starting businesses, for example outfitting businesses, in remote and rural parts of Saskatchewan. That is a very positive signal.
In the city of Saskatoon, we boast the highest number of post-secondary students on a per capita basis. We graduate in excess of 2,000 Aboriginal post-secondary students per year in Saskatchewan.
There are many circumstances that we are poised to really take advantage of in Saskatchewan.
The Chairman: Mr. Doug McLeod, the Executive Director of FSIN, has joined the table.
In your presentation you say:
Each community created an organizational/institutional structure to manage their economic development activities that is separate from the chief and the council. The separation of business from politics has been discussed at length in many publications. However, what is unique about these communities is that the institutions that they created are not culturally appropriate, as the Harvard Project on American Indian Economic Development has expounded.
Can you explain what you mean there? As a committee, we have considered the Harvard Project. We have had Professor Cornell, I believe it was, who appeared before us. Perhaps you could explain to the committee what you mean by that, Chief?
Mr. Lonechild: I will defer to Bob Kayseas as well, but first I will say that, in relation to corporate business development on reserves, one has to understand that First Nations leaders, band councillors simply do not have the time or, sometimes, the expertise to sit on boards of medium and sometimes large corporations that are expected to perform in a very competitive sector such as mining, for instance. Business people manage businesses, and it has made a difference for First Nations who say that we need additional expertise to make decisions in our corporations. Whether culturally appropriate or not, models of corporate structures such as limited partnerships have been a success in Saskatchewan, and that is not necessarily specific to our First Nations culture. Mr. Kayseas will make some additional comments.
Bob Kayseas, Advisor, Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations: Those comments are made in regard to the Harvard Project because in Canada we have been examining the work that they did in regard to the cultural appropriateness of the way in which we structure business development and our governance. They specifically recommend that communities need to look at the way traditional leadership and decision-making operated, and try to incorporate those ways of doing things into today's world. That infers that our culture is static, but we believe that Canadian First Nations are a little bit more dynamic and adaptable, and that the way that we structure ourselves, especially in regard to business, needs to be appropriate for mainstream Canadian and global business. There are examples of Canadian First Nations who are doing this. One is Membertou, who have structured their band governance as a corporation and they have done very well with that. That is what that comments means: it relates to the fact that the structure of your business development does not need to be as culturally appropriate as Stephen Cornell and company believe.
Senator Dyck: I am very happy to be here today with three senators from Saskatchewan. I feel that we kind of have the inside track on the knowledge here.
One of the things that you mentioned this morning was that in Saskatchewan about half of the Aboriginal population live on reserve and half off reserve. My question has to do with the significance of that fact on economic development. I think Saskatoon would be a good example of that.
Mr. Lonechild: I think the significance is very apparent in Saskatchewan. There have been numerous articles in local media, one in the newspaper today regarding First Nations housing and the conditions on reserve. There are also numerous statistics on off-reserve conditions, urban Aboriginal people living in cities like Saskatoon looking for employment opportunities. The changing face of Saskatchewan is referenced by many people in the province. We have a shifting demographic. By 2045, approximately half of the Saskatchewan population will be of First Nations or Metis ancestry. The challenges are to encourage higher levels of education and economic opportunity, urban economic development and land acquisition in urban centres. Institutional development is critical and will be crucial to the success of the overall economy and to the success of First Nations in particular, and will impact their living conditions both on and off reserve.
Senator Dyck: I know that in Saskatoon we have probably five or six areas within the city that are actually urban reserves. We have our Creeway gas station, et cetera. Is there a possibility for expanding in that area?
Mr. Lonechild: If I can offer advice to this committee, an important strategy is to design programs for business succession. For instance, retiring people who no longer wish to operate businesses or are leaving the labour market, and the uptake of those opportunities by small and medium sized businesses such as Creeway. That is an area with a lot of room for growth.
Approximately 110 stores operated by First Nations across Saskatchewan generate well over $200 million in gross revenue. That is a good start but there is far more to accomplish in terms of business expansion efforts and programs designed to complement that effort.
Senator Dyck: Obviously, there is a relationship between education and economic development, and with our growing First Nations population we clearly must ensure that as many of our young people as possible get at least their high school diploma and then perhaps continue on into post-secondary education, which is a challenge. Is there a way of integrating the economic development with the educational process in some way?
Mr. Lonechild: This is where economic information and indicators are crucial. In an adjacent province not much different from Saskatchewan, there are very high, competitive rates being paid for skilled labour, and children are dropping out of high school because the local Tim Horton's is offering $14 an hour, and even higher than that in Northern Alberta.
We are at a crossroads in terms of developing one of the most critical policy initiatives in Canadian history. In Western Canada, we have record numbers for wealth creation both in urban centres and in the resource sector. However, this does not apply to First Nations in terms of employment and wealth creation. This is why I think it is pivotal for First Nations in Saskatchewan and across Canada to be engaged in the economy. That means identifying those gaps in capital and ensuring that those who are being educated are finding gainful employment. That is something we cannot stress too much.
Senator Lovelace Nicholas: Would you tell us your views on the Indian Act and whether First Nations people should work with the federal government? Should the Indian Act be abolished or should it stay?
Mr. Lonechild: That is an excellent question. I will state my personal viewpoint. It is one that I believe many people hold. The Indian Act has imposed many limitations on the freedom of First Nations people, their livelihood, their access to resources, educational and economic opportunities. There needs to be a recognition of the importance of First Nations governance and the people they serve, the institutions that serve them, in order to ensure that the human and financial resources are available so that they can reach their full capacity, and in order that policies can be developed that are complementary to the hopes and dreams of First Nations people, not the dreams of either the federal or provincial government.
The Chairman: Well said.
Senator Peterson: Are you encouraging of the separation of governance of the band and the economic development into two separate streams?
Mr. Lonechild: It is extremely important that First Nations housing authorities or utility corporations that service their members, for all economic development there be a clear separation between the operations of business and the operations of the local band governance functions. We need expertise at the table to make important decisions on the future of businesses and the economic development pursuits of the band.
Senator Peterson: How are you meeting the challenge of ensuring that Aboriginal youth are receiving the training they need, not only for First Nations' requirements but for other industry as well? As you are well aware, in Saskatchewan the 18 to 25 age group is where employees will come from. How big a challenge is it and what assistance would one need in that area to ensure that such employees are available?
Mr. Lonechild: Entrepreneurial funding is a key resource that we need for young First Nations and Metis people. To give you a specific example, in Saskatchewan one of our institutions is the Saskatchewan Indian Equity Foundation. They make available a $5,000 loan to 12- to 18-year-olds to develop cow-calf operations. That helps these young people to develop skills such as accounting, and to develop the self-discipline required to operate a small business. This type of business is a very valuable one in the Province of Saskatchewan. We say that we are growing leaders in Saskatchewan. Those young entrepreneurs will be tomorrow's decision-makers in Regina and Ottawa.
Senator Merchant: How do you encourage young Aboriginal people to stay in school when often they are in situations where their parents did not have the opportunity to appreciate the advantages of education? What steps can be taken to ensure that young people graduate from high school? In Regina we now have the First Nations University of Canada, and I wonder how helpful that is. Is there a cultural pull toward that university that encourages them to stay in school?
Mr. Lonechild: That is a very good question and it deserves a lot of thought about the approach that we take in our school systems from Kindergarten to Grade 12. We must look at innovative approaches which demonstrate to students, while they are still in school, the practical application of education and that it is transferable in terms of jobs and opportunities. This will require fundamental changes to the curriculum to make it competitive, relative to not only the local community but to a global economy. We need geographical information systems and a curriculum in the middle grades to ensure that environmental conditions are considered in their learning processes. They must take advantage of the advanced innovation and education techniques that are derived from our universities to enable them to work in a very competitive resource sector. We must ensure that their education leads to meaningful and gainful careers and employment.
Our First Nations University must have cultural relevance, but it must also be an institution that can deliver a quality education on a level that is competitive with any other region or country.
Senator Merchant: What recommendations would you wish this committee to make in order to assist you in meeting all of your goals?
Mr. Lonechild: I would like the committee to recommend that examples of cooperative education measures and industry role models, engineers and other people, are brought together with our young people at the place of learning. It is also important that programs are in place to support families every step of the way. It is essential that parents are there for their children, as that is probably the factor that most influences the success or failure of our First Nations children.
Senator Sibbeston: I recognize the difference between urban centres and rural, and that most First Nations live in rural areas. How significant is the development of resources such as oil and gas or mining to the success of First Nations people?
Mr. Lonechild: In Southern Saskatchewan, resources such as oil, gas and potash are being sold to the United States. It is important that First Nations communities have the leverage needed to not just participate in but to take ownership of these large scale resource developments. At all levels, First Nations governments need the opportunity to participate in all aspects of oil and gas development. There are significant resources leaving the province with very little value and knowledge transfer left in those communities. Knowledge transfer will be key to whether those communities will be competitive in the future.
The Chairman: You state that the Indian Act still creates real and perceived barriers. I have a tendency to agree with Senator Lovelace Nicholas as far as the revamping of that act. Do you have any recommendations for changes to the Indian Act, or legislative initiatives that would assist our Aboriginal peoples in economic development?
Mr. Lonechild: The Indian Act is a piece of legislation that is very outdated and fundamentally flawed in the way that it meets its fiduciary responsibilities to First Nations. It is not working. There needs to be a retooling of First Nations' legislative processes so that they are able to proceed on a foundation that is their own. If the Indian Act needs to be scrapped, then we should be talking about how we make that happen. What is happening in our communities and outside is just not acceptable.
The Chairman: Thank you very much. Unfortunately, we have run out of time. I am sure the committee members are very pleased with your presentation and your candid and straightforward answers. If there is other information you wish us to have, please forward it to our committee and it will definitely be taken into consideration when drafting our report. I can assure you that the report will not be partisan; it will go right to the heart of the challenges that face our Aboriginal peoples.
Colleagues, our next presenters are from the Saskatoon Tribal Council: Mr. Matthew Sherry, who is Economic Development Adviser; and Wilma Isbister, General Manager.
Matthew Sherry, Economic Development Adviser, Saskatoon Tribal Council: Mr. Chair, I thank the Senate committee for the invitation to address you this morning. I bring greetings from Tribal Chief Joe Quewezance and from the chiefs of the seven First Nations that make up the Saskatoon Tribal Council.
I have provided copies of a slide presentation and I will go through that slide by slide. The first slide is a picture of our logo and those of the seven First Nations which make up the Saskatoon Tribal Council: Whitecap Dakota, Muskoday, Mistawasis, One Arrow, Yellow Quill, Muskeg Lake Cree Nation and the Kinistin Saulteaux First Nation. We have 10,000 treaty members made up of Saulteaux, Cree and Sioux, so we are a diverse organization.
My next slide is a quote from Chief Ovide Mercredi, past president of the AFN. He said, "It is the economic horse that pulls the social cart." I have a picture of a cart here which represent the Saskatoon Tribal Council, and my horse has no traction at all. Our Tribal Council delivers a large number of social programs. Unfortunately, at our particular Tribal Council, our economic horse is not pulling that cart.
In September of 2004, I was hired by the Saskatoon Tribal Council. Prior to hiring me, the board went through a strategic planning process and they said "We want to be more than just a social delivery and service organization. We want to be an economic development force in the City of Saskatoon and in the Province of Saskatchewan." They developed a strategic plan and over the next four months I put together a business strategy for our organization.
In January of 2005, I delivered an economic development plan to the seven chiefs and it was approved by them. We were excited and ready to launch. Six weeks later, INAC announced that it was eliminating two major economic development programs, the Resource Acquisition Program and the Major Projects Program. That decision put a dagger through the heart of our economic development plan. It really hit us very hard. It has been a little over a year since that happened.
Today, I will share some of my opinions and experiences in First Nations country in regard to what might work and what does work for economic development. In the next slide, I have listed five key factors. Those factors are not exclusive to First Nations economic development; they are just good business practices that lead to success. They are strong leadership, a clear vision with realistic goals and objectives, capable management, strong corporate governance, and the last one is equity, meaning dollars. I could eliminate one of the first four factors and you might still succeed in your business endeavour. In other words, you might not have really stable leadership but if you have great management, and there was a vision put in place and you have some money, you will succeed. You might even eliminate two of those first four components and you still might make it, even though the risk level has gone way up. However, if you take the equity out of the deal, you have nothing. My grandfather used to say, "Matt, talk is cheap but it takes money to buy whiskey." It sounds easy, but there is a challenge in front of us.
The first of the four key factors is strong and stable leadership. Across this country there are a number of First Nations individuals with strong, stable leadership qualities that have led to strong economic development. However, I picked a guy close to home and that is Chief Harry Cook, who held the position of chief of the Lac La Ronge First Nations for 18 years.
The next factor is a clear vision with realistic goals. If we take a step back 25 years, there was a lot of activity in Northern Saskatchewan at the provincial level, expanding the uranium industry, and the La Ronge Indian Band was not involved in any of that. The vision they had was that the band must take ownership of some of the business opportunities that come available if we want to guide the development of the north in a way that will benefit our northern communities. It is really pretty simple.
With Chief Harry Cook the band stayed the course and now, over 20 years later, there is a company called Kitsaki Management with 12 businesses earning $70 million in revenue and providing 450 jobs. They are serious players up there in Northern Saskatchewan. They did not get there by simply wishing they could, or having a strong vision or stable leadership; they hired some good management and they were able to receive some equity dollars to assist them.
Their first major successful venture was Northern Resource Trucking, and for that they received assistance from the provincial government. A number of the other businesses that they started received funding from some of the INAC programs. Does Kitsaki need dollars today to continue to be successful? Probably they do not, but they are pretty clever business people so if there were some equity funding available, I think they would know what to do with it.
The next key point is capable management. Allan McLeod is the CEO of Tribal Council Investment Group of Manitoba, a company he began 14 years ago. I could blow Allan's horn but there are those more qualified than I to identify his capabilities. He was recently selected by KPMG and the Richard Ivey School of Business to participate in the Quantum Shift Program. That is an acknowledgement by some real heavyweights in business that he belongs in the top 40 young entrepreneurs in Canada. This is a First Nations individual and this company has really gone off the charts insofar as its ability to create wealth for its Tribal Councils. Eighty-seven per cent of senior management is First Nations, which is pretty astounding. They have a vision to generate enough wealth to contribute towards First Nations self-sufficiency by being a major player in the Canadian and international economies. Allan thinks big. If you do not think big, you will never be big.
The next slide is a list of some of the companies that Tribal Council Investment Group is involved in. The first company they bought was Arctic Beverages, a small Pepsi bottler in Flin Flon that no one wanted. In the 12 years that they have owned that company, they have doubled the revenues. It is the only First Nation-owned Pepsi bottler in the world. Since the acquisition of that company they have invested in 12 more companies. They do not publish their revenues but I would be betting that it is close to the $100 million level now.
They did not achieve all of this just because Allan was a good manager. He had a clear vision and he also had funding to launch it. If Allan were to go to INAC today and ask for more money because he has another good investment idea, they would probably support him because in every investment they have made so far he has not made a mistake. He will trip one of these days because no one bats a thousand. They do not need the federal government any more but they did then, in order to get their organization started.
Looking at the next slide, the Meadow Lake Tribal Council has been around for 25 years. They have 11 businesses, $75 million in annual revenue and they have created over 500 direct jobs. They are the biggest player in economic development up in Meadow Lake but how they did it is not magic. It is the same things again: They had a vision, they hired some good management and they got some funding to get started. At this point they probably do not need funding from the federal government, although they did when they began.
The next slide is of points to consider, and this describes the situation where I live in Saskatchewan and what we do at the Saskatoon Tribal Council. There are 74 First Nations and seven tribal councils in Saskatchewan. I would say there are approximately 10 organizations that are successful and have sustainable economic development programs. If my math is right, that leaves 71 First Nations organizations that have not even started. Although there is a lot of work still to do, there are some great models for success here in Western Canada, and some very successful organizations.
Our Tribal Council is ready to move forward but it will not happen until all of the pieces are in place.
I have some pretty straightforward recommendations. I do not think there will be any surprises for the committee after hearing from me for the last 10 minutes. Equity is the key ingredient. You need all the other components, but without money you will not be able to move forward. The federal government should re-establish the Major Projects Program and the Lands and Resource Acquisition Program to assist First Nations with economic development projects.
INAC should continue its Community Economic Opportunities Program that was introduced last year. It is a very good program that assists with the foundation work necessary to acquire an existing business, the due diligence and all the other hard work that must be done in order to be able to make good decisions to start successful businesses, including business plans, feasibility studies, consultation and legal work, and structuring. All the work that has to be done takes time, energy and money and that is what CEOP is designed for. We absolutely need that. If the CEOP could be matched with some equity funding then you would see the beginning of more successful First Nations economic development projects.
I believe very strongly that you must empower regional bureaucrats to have involvement in the approval process. If Ottawa were to supply another $500 million for economic development over the next seven years, I hope they would have the wisdom to leave the decision-making process at the regional level. The regional bureaucrats are not only dedicated, they understand the character, capacity and requirements of the First Nations people and they are the most qualified people to decide if a project will work in Saskatchewan.
Economic development initiatives take time. If you give me a million dollars for start-up costs but no follow-up funding, then my level of risk has just increased. Long-term funding commitments are essential.
I will quote Chief Harry Cook of the La Ronge Indian Band. He said:
Economic development is long term; successful businesses are not built in a few short months. It takes years to build them up. While the cooperation of business and government has been instrumental in creating good business climate for the First Nations, it has been more important to consistently remind ourselves that, as political leaders, it is up to us to have a long-term vision for growing, healthy First Nations business sector. But it is not our place, as politicians, to manage those businesses. That we must leave to the business managers.
Finally, I will talk about the strategic planning that was done by Saskatoon Tribal Council before I was engaged, and the business plan that was done after I was engaged. This is the vision that we created for our tribal council: Develop a First Nations-owned investment company that is focussed on acquiring a strong group of profitable businesses that creates wealth and sustainable economic development for the Saskatoon Tribal Council.
I will tell you what the Saskatoon Tribal Council is missing at this time: It is the key component, equity. We can equal the achievements of Tribal Council Investment Group or Meadow Lake Tribal Council. They received assistance to get started; we also need assistance.
The Chairman: Thank you for your presentation. It certainly does not lack enthusiasm.
Senator Hubley: A warm welcome to you. I come from Eastern Canada and it is always a pleasure to visit the west. The hospitality in Saskatchewan, and particularly in Saskatoon and La Ronge, has been exceptional. I have enjoyed my stay and learned a great deal.
Yesterday we visited La Ronge and heard about the Kitsaki Management Limited Partnership. When a business is successful, it is easy to look back and say "It was because we had a vision: we had the determination, the leadership; we understood the management requirements; we built partnerships." They also touched on education.
The thing that most impressed me is that even though they have become very successful, they have never lost sight of the original vision which was to improve the lives of the people in the First Nations that they are dealing with. They have never strayed from that vision in their decision making.
I would like you to comment on the educational system in Saskatchewan and whether the trade schools are an important part of it. Also, I think, broadening the vision of education so that we can identify skills and give educational credibility to those skills through our trade schools. In the case of the La Ronge First Nations, they have facilitated long-distance education to make available the education their young people require. Everything they have done has had that vision. The way in which they have developed their whole program must be of assistance to the 87 per cent of First Nations who have not yet begun. I find that number really surprising since you have such strong examples within your community. Can I have just a comment?
Mr. Sherry: I will defer to Wilma Isbister as I think she is more qualified to answer that question.
Wilma Isbister, General Manager, Saskatoon Tribal Council: Mr. Chair and senators, the delivery of programs and services is what Saskatoon Tribal Council excels at. We are celebrating our 25th anniversary this year, and that is what we have been doing for the whole 25 years. We assist our First Nations and support them in developing programs and services on reserve. Education has always been a priority for our leadership. Saskatoon Tribal Council, of course, sees education as a treaty right, but we also have responsibilities, individually and collectively, towards that.
Just since last year, all of our seven First Nations have schools on their reserves. They do not all go to grade 12, however. Some students must leave the reserve to take their education in the upper grades. We recognize that everyone is not a candidate for post-secondary education and we have worked hard through our Labour Force Development Program to develop programs that will assist those who need trades, technical and apprenticeship training. We have the Women in Trades programs that have been very successful. I think 60 women in the last two years have gone on to apprenticeship positions, seeking their journeyman status through that program.
We focus on our youth and young people in our communities and we have had a very successful program for 10 years called Super Saturday, which is a partnership with the University of Saskatchewan. Recently, the Saskatchewan Institute of Arts, Science and Technology has come on board and some of the Crown corporations are partners in supporting this initiative. We have put 4,000 kids through this program in the last 10 years. What the program does is it takes kids from grades 3 and above and gives them an experience within a university setting, combining academic learning with a cultural component. Our elders are very much a part of that program. We have found that when our young people have that experience it enables them to have the confidence and the ability to know what direction they wish to take academically, and when they are finishing their grade 12 it is easier for them to move forward to take the education necessary to meet their goals. It has been a very successful program. I think Senator Dyck can attest to that, since she has been part of it throughout the years.
Education is a priority. There are waiting lists for First Nations people to get into post-secondary education, since we can only train so many per year. One of our strategic initiatives is education, training and development so that we can assist every First Nation person who has the desire to go into the trades or technical area, or other post-secondary education.
Senator Peterson: I appreciated your dissertation on economic development and I quite agree that you can have all the vision, strategic and business planning in the world but with no equity, you cannot be a player. I do support your recommendation that the INAC economic development programs be reinstated.
It is also my understanding that INAC have a lot of money that belongs to First Nations people. Do you have a strategic plan for asking for your own money to use for economic development?
Mr. Sherry: I do not know where that pot of gold is. At the band level, there is some TLE money that has been allocated to First Nations that they have used to buy land.
Senator Peterson: We had been told at other hearings that INAC has money that it has been holding for years, and that accessing it is very difficult; that INAC seem to think it is best just to sit on that money. It seems to me that if it is there, then there should be some collective plan, maybe not at your level but certainly FSIN should be developing a plan to get that money.
Mr. Sherry: I agree with you, and it is not rocket science. I mentioned that 87 per cent of First Nations in Saskatchewan are not ready to take advantage of funding that might be made available and begin economic development immediately, but when they are ready, they will need funding. Delay does not benefit the First Nations, Saskatchewan or Canada by having a sector of our society that does not contribute to the economy. Although not all First Nations are ready at this point, I know that if there were some funding programs in place, there are some First Nations that would be ready to begin.
Senator Peterson: Do you think that your membership and the businesses they operate get their fair share of federal government procurement?
Mr. Sherry: No.
Senator Peterson: Why?
Mr. Sherry: I do not have a simple answer. I can make one observation: I think that when First Nations consider a business opportunity, they think that as a First Nation they can procure business from all the other First Nations in Saskatchewan, and that their corporations will want to support a First Nations organization. Maybe they do not have specific, dedicated requirements but they do want to allocate a portion of their procurement to First Nations. For example, they think they should be able to start up a company that could sell toilet paper to every First Nation, every corporation and Crown corporation in this province and make a lot of money, because they are a First Nation.
Unfortunately, that model has not worked very well because certain of the components are not available, such as the management and enough equity to sustain the opportunity as it is being developed. Also, really, a vision of being a big procurement company is not really a vision; it is just, "I want to be big." Thus far, the other components have not been there. The opportunity is ripe and sitting there, but it has not been organized enough, although there are exceptions.
Ms. Isbister: If I might add to that. I know one of the issues for our First Nations contractors is the bonding requirement to be successful in bidding on projects and tenders that are available in Saskatchewan.
Mr. Sherry: Yes, that is a big obstacle. Also, being aware and in contact with the companies, being on the radar screen has not been done very successfully.
The Chairman: I have a question in regard to accessing capital. Are there any equity dollars available now through INAC that you could access if you had a good business opportunity that presented itself to your Saskatoon Tribal Council?
Mr. Sherry: No. There are some infrastructure programs through housing and some other programs that you could perhaps manipulate a little bit to allow some commercial development on your reserve. But to the extent that there are any equity programs right now that could help acquire an existing business, or start an existing business, or partner up with somebody who came to you and said that they have a great business opportunity and wanted you to be their partner, but to launch this next venture would cost you $1 million, no, there are none of those programs.
The Chairman: My understanding is that there are seven departments that fund Aboriginal initiatives in Canada. Industry Canada is one of them. Are there any equity opportunities there? Have you sought that out, or have you focused basically on INAC?
Mr. Sherry: Actually, there is a pool of money through Aboriginal Business Canada, but it is really not direct equity funding for acquisition of real fixed assets to any significant degree.
One example is English River, which has just built a new urban reserve gas bar just east of town on the way to Regina. Under the technology component of Aboriginal Business Canada, they could qualify for funding by putting in a state-of-the art point of sales system that allows communication with Regina to accommodate tax service, or by putting in a state-of-the art security system to watch employees and patrons. By doing any of those things, they could receive some funding. However, there really are no dollars for bricks and mortar. You cannot use that type of funding to assist in building the physical structure or to acquire inventories. You can do a little bit with the ABC funding but there are only small amounts available. I think, in total, ABC only handles approximately $16 million for the whole of Canada, and about $3 million of that dribbles out west here.
The Chairman: What about the mainstream financial institutions? Are the banks and credit unions responding to the needs of our Aboriginal communities? They ought to, since they all benefit from them. I know that one of the big six banks at one time had developed an initiative to direct some of their resources towards Aboriginal economic development. Could you comment on that?
Mr. Sherry: With the Schedule "A" banks, not much has changed. They all have Aboriginal departments and they all want to do Aboriginal business but they want to do it based on the business models that they have created for doing business in the white guy's world, and for us it really does not work. They are asset-based lenders. They do not want to go out on a limb. They must have primary source repayment, which comes from the cash flow from the operations of the business or the liquidation of assets or, if it is a sales-related business, the disposition of assets. They also want a secondary source of repayment which will be the liquidation of the business assets and they want to be covered at a level two times higher than the value of the assets. I could have $2 million of assets on my books, great inventory, great rolling stock, but the bank will only lend me half a million dollars on a million because they want to be doubly secured. There really is not anything in place from an equity standpoint.
However, at the private sector level there are companies out there that are excited about partnering with First Nations and getting into good business opportunities if the First Nations are prepared to write a cheque. However, nobody wants to be your partner if you do not have a little "skin in the deal" along with them.
Senator Merchant: Ms. Isbister, Chief Lonechild said earlier that there are many women setting up businesses in Northern Saskatchewan. Could you perhaps paint a picture for us in relation to whether young women are pursuing education and graduating from high school in greater numbers than young men? Also, what are the particular obstacles faced by young Aboriginal women in setting up businesses?
Ms. Isbister: The statistics demonstrate that women are having a higher success rate in completing their education aspirations. Many of our women had to leave school at a young age because of personal circumstances, and we are finding a lot more mature, adult students coming back into the education system. We do have many women who are single parents with young children who are attending post-secondary education courses, including trades and technical training courses. The funding is very limited; I believe the training allowance a person can receive from their band is only $800 a month. If they live in the City of Saskatoon or in Toronto or Vancouver, that $800 does not go very far.
I went back to university a few years ago. In Saskatoon, Scotiabank has put money into an Aboriginal student centre in the College of Commerce. When I was sitting in that room after classes or in the evening, young women were coming in crying and worrying about their kids, and not having enough money to buy adequate food for the rest of the month. They have transportation and childcare issues. I do not think they should have those worries. They should be able to concentrate on their studies and have the supports necessary to get through what is a very difficult time for them.
The success rate of women who embark on trades and opportunities in the technical areas is very high. As I mentioned earlier, our Women in Trades program is very successful. We have women who have gone through that program after spending 10 years of their lives in the corrections system, and they have succeeded in completing their training and are presently working for contractors in the City of Saskatoon, taking part in the apprenticeship process in order to gain journeyman status.
There are lots of barriers and challenges for Aboriginal women. It is difficult raising a family as a single parent, and poverty is a major issue in the City of Saskatoon. We must address the poverty issue, and we can do that by making sure that there are opportunities for Aboriginal women to get their education and training and move forward to gain employment.
The Chairman: I would like to thank you for your attendance today.
As our next witnesses we have Chief Darcy Bear of the Whitecap Dakota First Nation and Mr. Darrell Balkwill, Director of Economic Development. Welcome to our committee hearings.
Chief Darcy Bear, Whitecap Dakota First Nation: Thank you for the invitation to appear before you. Our First Nation is located 20 minutes from downtown Saskatoon, south of the city. We have been in that location since 1879 and we have a strong partnership with the City of Saskatoon that dates back to 1882. When John Lake, the founder of the City of Saskatoon, was looking for a place to locate their temperance colony administration centre, he met with Chief Whitecap and the Chief actually helped to pick out the location. Next year marks 125 years since that meeting occurred. The City of Saskatoon is celebrating its centennial this year but the history goes beyond that.
From our perspective, when it comes to economic development, if you look at the way First Nations communities were structured, we were put on little islands called reserves and we were not part of the mainstream economy at all. The only type of economy we had was inside our borders. I was raised by my grandparents, and when my grandfather wanted to leave the reserve, he had to get a pass to leave the community. If they wanted to sell their crop or even slaughter their own livestock that they had in the community, they had to get a permit from the Indian agent.
A recent legislative change is Bill C-49, the First Nations Land Management Act. Our community has had a ratification vote and we have adopted the First Nations Land Management Act. We were informed that the goal of that act was to eliminate 25 per cent of the Indian Act and allow First Nations communities the ability to start zoning their own lands and to sign long-term commercial leasehold interests, 99-year residential leasehold interests. Our community has actually gone through that exercise.
As a small First Nation with only about 4,700 acres, one of the first things we did was we looked at doing a land use plan: in other words, what is our land good for. They always say that the Department of National Defence gets the worst land in the country, and we are adjacent to a military base. In the lower areas, we have a lot of clay, or alkali; in the upper areas, it is all sand dunes. Agriculturally, it is useless. Because of our history as Dakota people, who are known as great horsemen on the plains, one of the things our community did was they got involved with the cattle industry and found that to be very productive. In the 1930s, we were one of the largest producers in the area with over 500 head of cattle, all pure-bred Herefords. Unfortunately, in 1935 when the Natural Resources Transfer Agreement took place, we lost 10 sections of land, which meant they had to sell off the cattle operation.
As of today, we have gone through the exercise of zoning the whole community and we have done that through community consultation. Our community has a minimum of four meetings with our membership every year — we actually have one happening tonight. We do that to keep our membership up to date as far as what is happening. The various areas are set out in your information kits. We have zoned resort commercial areas and right across the highway there is also a commercial district that we have implemented.
In our community, we have some areas that we are protecting and keeping natural. The resource conservation areas are the dark green areas along the river lands. We also have some agricultural land that we utilize. Those are the light green areas. The yellow areas are the residential areas of our community.
One of the things we did when we developed the resource conservation areas, the resort commercial areas and the commercial district was that we made sure that there was a separation between the actual village and the commercial activity so that people still have their privacy for their day-to-day lives. However, there are new opportunities coming into the community.
In order to make all this happen, we have not only zoned all of our land, we have also developed a lot of policies and bylaws. We have developed a 49-year commercial leasehold interest, which businesses can then take to the bank and get financing for their business. That is registered in the federal lands registry. We have also implemented a real property tax bylaw and we have adopted a similar mill rate to that of the Rural Municipality of Dundurn, which surrounds us. Our assessors are the same as the RM of Dundurn. The Saskatchewan Assessment Management Agency does our assessments, so that it is a level playing field if you come into Whitecap or are in the Rural Municipality of Dundurn. That system has worked well for us.
We have also implemented business licensing bylaws and infrastructure servicing agreements. All these things are in place. The next step, of course, was providing infrastructure for business, and our community has had to invest about $11 million for water, sewer, high-speed internet, an expanded natural gas capacity, and three-phase power. These are things that a lot of small towns and cities take for granted that do not normally exist inside First Nations communities. There was an infrastructure program and the federal government did put some resources into it, about $2.1 million. Sometimes public perception is that First Nations keep getting more money. Yet across this country cities and towns all get infrastructure resources as well. I am not sure why things are viewed in that way; it should be understood that this money is for commercial activity and for creating economic development and creating job opportunities.
Everything is moving forward and we will have all of our infrastructure in place by this fall. The only thing that will be left to do is road paving, which will be done in the spring.
About $100 million has been invested into our community. One of the first businesses that we put into our community was the Dakota Dunes Golf Links. Our golf links was named by Golf Digest as one of the best new courses in Canada for 2005, the first time any course in Saskatchewan has ever achieved that honour. We have formed a unique partnership. As First Nations communities, we do not have a lot of capital, and we were very fortunate that at the time INAC did have an economic development program that provided $1.39 million to get the project started. We were still short of capital so we had to seek partners such as Lac La Ronge Indian Band, Muskeg Lake First Nation, as well as the Prince Albert Grand Council. The four of us went forward with this project, and as of today it has about 60 employees, of which approximately 70 per cent are First Nations. This is our third year of operation. In our business plan, we had originally planned for a small loss in the first two years and eventually a profit. However, we have been fortunate enough to make a profit every year.
Not only has it created employment for First Nations people, it has also been a stepping stone. Many of our people who started working there have gone on to get into other trades and also apprenticeships. It has provided great opportunities for all of us in the Saskatoon area. Whitecap is a small community of about 230 people, of whom only 15 are unemployed.
A new casino has been announced for Saskatchewan. It will be the fifth casino operated by the Saskatchewan Indian Gaming Authority and it is being built on our First Nation's land. It is a partnership of Saskatoon Tribal Council, FSIN and Whitecap. That will generate another 550 jobs in this region. As well, there are plans to build a hotel which will create another 100 jobs. We also plan to build an industrial park and a retail centre. We will then have well over 800 jobs on our reserve just outside Saskatoon.
We have also created strategic partnerships with the City of Saskatoon and with the local rural municipalities in the area from Saskatoon to Lake Diefenbaker, which is about one hour and fifteen minutes from here. It is one of the largest lakes in this area. We have worked collectively with the City of Saskatoon, the Rural Municipality of Corman Park, the Rural Municipality of Dundurn, the Rural Municipality of Rudy and the Rural Municipality of Rosedale and the towns of Outlook and Dundurn to create a regional economic development strategy. The tourism corridor we have created is not only good for First Nations communities but for non-First Nations communities as well. Through this tourism corridor we can together look at the opportunities in rural Saskatchewan as far as tourism and service opportunities are concerned. Those non-First Nations communities are doing their business plans right now. It has been very exciting for the whole region. Instead of working against one another in isolation, we have started to work together collectively for strong economic development.
As I indicated, the First Nations Land Management Act has been good for our community. It was supposed to eliminate 25 per cent of the Indian Act and do many wonderful things. However, it is now back in the hands of INAC and they are viewing it more as a First Nations Land Management initiative. Our initial funding agreement was for $153,000 because we took over the whole administration of our lands. Prior to that, our funding was $91,000; now they have cut our funding back to $85,000, less than what we received through the old system. That amount is for us to govern all of our own lands, look after all our leases and pay for a land manager. We have had to have lawyers involved and survey work done. We are also responsible for our own environmental issues. Taking over our own land management has involved a lot of work.
At page 25 of our Land Code Agreement with Canada, it speaks about environmental laws and standards, and working on a tripartite agreement with the provincial and federal governments. However, this has not been addressed to date. I will provide an example of environmental standards in our community. A few years ago there was an individual who thought he was an entrepreneur and he made a deal with a steel company here in the city. They were taking copper wire that was covered with plastic, and they were starting these huge fires and burning it in our community. The clean-up costs were about half a million dollars and, of course, INAC paid for the clean-up. However, the maximum penalty this individual can receive under the Indian Act is $1,000. This individual then went to another community that is also a member of our tribal council and did the same thing there. That cost another million dollars in clean-up charges.
We should be able to address these issues. The provincial government has stronger laws and stiffer penalties to protect the environment. Why can we not work out a tripartite agreement on environmental standards instead of redeveloping laws all over again? The provincial and federal government and the First Nation should be able to create a tripartite agreement that protects the environment so that such individuals cannot get away with only a $1,000 fine. That is one issue that arises from the First Nations Land Management Act.
I believe this is the last year of the five-year Treasury Board authority to fund the First Nations Land Management Act, which expires in March of 2007. We recommend that there be a new funding formula that will assist First Nations who want to move forward, one that is more reasonable and tied to resources and staffing requirements. We hope that the federal government will give it serious consideration and fund it appropriately. It is a good initiative and addresses many of our needs.
There was an article in the newspaper this past weekend which said that Indian Affairs Minister Prentice was talking about changing the rules with relation to reserve lands, to change it into fee simple lands. We certainly do not agree with that. We believe that it should remain a collective. The First Nations Land Management Act provided for a process that works, whereby you can issue long-term commercial leasehold interests. You can also issue 99-year leaseholds so that members are able to own their homes privately, and that is happening right now. We have currently been approved for a 27-lot acreage subdivision to be developed in Whitecap, which will all have 99-year leases. Community members can go to the bank and get their own mortgages and build their own homes. It will be an asset base to them because it can be sold on the open market. The land still maintains reserve status collectively, since it will have a 99-year lease. It is no different than in national parks where I think they have 49-year leases for cottages.
From a commercial perspective, it makes a lot of sense. Right here in Saskatoon there is a perfect example. If you go to Preston Crossing, which has all these big box operations, it is built on land owned by the University of Saskatchewan, and those all have 49-year leases for commercial development. It does happen and it does work. The Minister of Indian Affairs already has a system that he can work with, although more resources would need to be put into developing that system.
Another problem we have in relation to private home ownership is that as a First Nation, because of section 89 of the Indian Act, we cannot own real property on reserve because it cannot be seized by the bank. What we have to do is play a little game; we set up a corporation that we own, and the corporation holds the title to our home. That is what we have to do in order to build on the 27 lots that we are planning right now. Those types of hurdles still exist and there should be legislation that allows a First Nation to opt in or opt out. If I wish to build a home in my community and have a 99-year lease, why should I have to set up a corporation to own title to that 99-year lease lot? As well, because of section 89 of the Indian Act, the same thing applies to a business. Certainly, you could not be a sole proprietor in the community. You would have to have a corporation set up in order to lease lands off the community.
Those are some of the things I wanted to bring to your attention. Certainly, the First Nations Land Management Act has been a good piece of legislation for our community. It allows First Nations peoples to bring world class products to the marketplace, to be a part of the economy; not just the regional and national economies but the international economy. We have people who come from Ireland and from New Zealand and Australia to play at our golf course. It is international and it is excellent to see.
The other thing I should mention is that it is very unfortunate that there is no longer an equity program in INAC. The funding received by First Nations communities is very limited and it is never adequate to address all of our needs. We are fortunate that we have a financial transfer agreement with Canada so that we have some flexible resources, and if we are able to save money on social services, we can reinvest it into housing. However, we do lack resources. There are many ventures that we cannot become involved in because we do not have the start-up capital. When the federal government, through INAC, did have the economic development program, it was actually working very well here in Saskatchewan. The FSIN had a committee that went through all of the business plans and weeded out the ones that just were not viable. That system really started to work and there were a lot of businesses, including the Dakota Dunes, that were developed through that process.
It would certainly be good to see some type of economic development program in the future that could provide seed money, since First Nations have limited access to capital. Certainly it would help in moving things forward. I believe the former program could provide funding for 25 per cent of the project. Anything under half a million dollars was dealt with regionally; anything over that went to headquarters. There is an infrastructure program which is still available and is also very important to First Nations.
Senator Peterson: Thank you, Chief, for your presentation. You are certainly to be complimented for your vision and entrepreneurial spirit.
I have a couple of questions to help me understand how you operate. Who is the governing authority in this endeavour? Is it the band or is it a corporation?
Mr. Bear: It is the First Nation itself. Through the First Nations Land Management Act, Whitecap itself can actually enter into leases. In the past, under the Indian Act, we had to go through Dakota Land Holdings, a corporation, to run our affairs.
Senator Peterson: Do INAC have oversight? How secure is this endeavour? Can it be changed and, if so, who can change it?
Mr. Bear: There is a framework agreement between Canada and the First Nation and each community has to vote on its own land code, so the land code is voted on and ratified by the Whitecap community members themselves. It is up to each community what they include in their land code. We have included 99-year leasehold interests because the framework agreement allows that, and our community members were okay with that. We have also included 49-year commercial leasehold interests. We can give longer leases than 49 years. If, for example, a corporation wanted a 75- year commercial leasehold interest, that is possible but it would have to go to a community meeting for ratification.
The Land Code itself consists of the rules made by the community. The framework agreement is the agreement that was made between Canada and the First Nations. That agreement simply stipulates what can and cannot be included in your land codes. What was not thought of was how a First Nation can amend their land code. We have been using ours since 2003 on a daily basis so we can see things that need to changed. They are minor changes, but in order to change the agreement you must go through the whole ratification vote again. There should have been some form of amending the agreement inside the framework agreement.
Senator Hubley: Yesterday we visited the La Ronge area and heard that one of the challenges they face is how to deal with the division of power within communities as far as on-reserve and off-reserve, and how that in some cases had blended. The example they gave us was if a group of young people were attending a hockey game, on one side of the road the bus would come along and half of the children would get on at that side and go to the game. Another bus would come along and pick up children from the other side of the road and take them to the game. Which bus they got on was according to whether they lived on or off reserve. I am wondering how you have managed your project and are dealing with that kind of a situation?
Mr. Bear: In what context? On and off reserve?
Senator Hubley: Is this reserve land that you have divided into different sections?
Mr. Bear: It is all reserve land. The First Nations Land Management Act gives us the capacity to zone our own lands and to issue these long-term commercial leasehold interests. We do actually own some fee simple land as well. We have about seven quarters of fee simple land around our community that we have bought, but to date we have not developed any of it.
Senator Hubley: If it is all on reserve, you do not have to worry about how to service it as you would if part of that property was off reserve.
Mr. Bear: Up to now we have not run into that, but we do have an adjacent piece of land that we are looking at developing. Because it is adjacent, all of our services are available to it. We would not get the taxation from it; that would be paid to the rural municipality because that land is fee simple. Taxation is another thing that we have implemented. Through our Real Property Tax Bylaw we intend to build a sustainable community with our mill rate and collect the taxes. Just as in any other community, some of the monies received through taxes are used for servicing the businesses, clearing snow and things such as that, and some is kept for community programs so that we can fund areas that are currently unfunded.
We are also one of the only First Nations in Saskatchewan that has an agreement on GST for fuel, tobacco and alcohol. Basically, the vendors still remit those monies to the Canada Revenue Agency and then, through an agreement we have with them, the money is sent back to Whitecap. Currently, that is not a large amount but in the future we are conservatively estimating that we will have 1.4 million visitors coming to our community, so obviously that revenue will start to increase. Right now we receive somewhere between $40,000 and $60,000 and it will increase to approximately half a million dollars, annually. We do not call it GST; we call it the Whitecap Community Improvement Fee, and the revenue from that will be used to create a better quality of life for the members of our community. That is what the money is targeted towards: building recreation centres, hockey rinks and things like that that First Nations communities do not have because we do not get funding for that kind of thing.
Senator Merchant: How has the quality of life on your reserve improved through the successes you have described? Do you have good water, good housing, and are you able to keep your young people there because of the employment you are creating? Are they developing skills? How does all this good work you are doing translate into the quality of life that your people are experiencing?
Mr. Bear: It would have been nice if you could have toured our community, since we are only 20 minutes away. If you had, you would have seen the difference in the quality of life. As far as our housing stock is concerned, we have about 65 units presently and we are in the process of building 20 more, and then there will be another 27 built for private ownership. The housing stock is well cared for. If you drive through our community you will see that we have gone through the process of updating and renovating all the homes, making sure that any health issues are addressed. We have had to go through the section 95 program for on-reserve rental housing, which makes up the majority of our housing because there is a lack of capital for people to build homes. The majority of those houses have gone through the Residential Rehabilitation Assistance Program.
The capital funding for housing has been capped since 1989. At that time they used a formula which allowed $33,000 to build a house. According to that formula, we only receive enough funding for about 2.5 houses. Of course, today you cannot build a home for $33,000. That costs a minimum of $100,000 per unit. In order to address housing needs, that formula must be changed to reflect today's prices. If adequate funding were provided, it would be possible to use those funds as leverage in order to build more units.
In terms of employment opportunities, we actually have what I would call reverse peer pressure happening. In the past, when we had a lot of unemployment, people were satisfied with being unemployed. Now that we have a lot of activity such as construction happening in the community: the casino is under construction, we have infrastructure projects. Now you hear people saying, "Well, I am working, why are you not working?" Now everybody who can work is working. Of the 15 people who are unemployed right now, I think probably five of them will never work. I think any community has some people like that. We are working with those 15 people to get them involved in some program. Recently, we have put them through a life skills program and now some of them have gone on to take some upgrading and they will become a valuable human resource in the future.
We have a lot of good partnerships in education. We have one with the Saskatoon School Division where we share an Aboriginal liaison officer. We have a Kindergarten to Grade 6 school in Whitecap and our Grade 7 to 12 students are bused to Saskatoon. The Aboriginal liaison officer tracks our students and how they are doing in the city. Our children in Grades 7 and 8 go to Victoria School, the Kindergarten to grade 6 children from Victoria School come out to visit Whitecap, and our Kindergarten to Grade 6 children visit Victoria School, which means that when our children go there for Grades 7 and 8, they actually know each other. That has been working very well for us, and our retention rate has gone up. On the post-secondary side we are starting to see graduates from commerce and nursing; We are no longer just graduating teachers and social workers.
Our Tribal Council also has a project with the University of Saskatchewan called Super Saturday. The objective of the project is to get the students interested in maths and sciences and it has been a very effective program. It teaches the students that they do not have to be afraid of maths and science, and if they get involved with those programs, it opens all kinds of other doors.
For trades, we have a good partnership with the Saskatchewan Indian Institute of Technology here in Saskatoon. Saskatoon Tribal Council, FSIN and SIGA have been working with them. We need all kinds of tradespeople and SIIT will give people a two-week crash course and then they are hired as apprentices by the contractors working in Whitecap. That is really enhancing our ability to move forward in the area of trades. They say there is a labour shortage in Saskatoon but we are very fortunate in that we can tap into a large urban First Nations population. There are about 20,000 First Nations people here and there is a high unemployment rate among that group, which is an issue we must seriously address. In Saskatchewan, employers are looking to immigration. However Aboriginal peoples should also be considered in order to address the shortage of labour in this province.
As far as water goes, we are one of probably a handful of First Nations that have certified water treatment plant operators, and we have actually just built a second water treatment plant for commercial activity because the treatment plant in the community is too small to address the larger commercial needs. It will be commissioned later this year, so we will be hiring for that. It is a utility company owned by the First Nation so it is another venture of ours. We will be charging metering for all the water because there are no agreements with INAC to fund any commercial water treatment plants, so it will have to be a stand-alone operation. Just as the City of Saskatoon sells water to its citizens, similarly we will be selling water to businesses, and the resources we get from that will be set aside for capital expenses and for wages. From the pro forma we prepared, we are confident that it will be successful.
Senator Dyck: Chief Bear, that was an excellent presentation. One of the things I am curious about is what you consider to be the key factors in your success. It sounds as though the First Nations Lands Management Act was an important part of that. The land is actually your resource and you are using that to develop different initiatives. We heard earlier this morning and yesterday that you must already have money to actually accomplish anything, and I am not clear on where your initial capital came from?
Mr. Bear: Yes, the First Nations Land Management Act is key to our success in economic development and community development because we cannot forget the residential part of it. The new opportunities for private home ownership are empowering to our people, since they can now build the homes they want. As our people become educated and have better salaries, they can afford a mortgage and they can build the home they want. If they want to add a two-car garage to their unit, why should they not?
As far as initial funding goes, we initiated a development cost charge bylaw. Just as with any new business coming to Saskatoon in an area that was undeveloped, that business and the city would negotiate how much investment would come from the city and how much from that business in order to put infrastructure into that area. Similarly, we have a development cost charge bylaw and we have sat down with commercial interests and negotiated what their share is and what the community's share is.
For example, on the casino site all our infrastructure costs are about $11 million, and SIGA's share of that is $4.7 million. The federal government have put in $2.1 million and the balance of that Whitecap is putting in through a loan which tax revenues will pay for over 15 years. That is how we have financed the infrastructure that is required to have new businesses come into the community.
Senator Dyck: With respect to home ownership, I know there are some conflicts between provincial law and the Indian Act. In situations where there is a marriage breakdown, the federal Indian Act supersedes provincial laws with regard to matrimonial property. What is the situation with your First Nation?
Mr. Bear: Through the First Nations Land Management Act and the Land Codes arrangement between the federal government and the First Nations, each community that does ratify a land code has to have a Matrimonial Real Property Act. Whitecap has a bylaw for matrimonial property that has been approved by the federal government.
Senator Dyck: You have a bylaw that would match what the provincial legislation is?
Mr. Bear: Our bylaw would certainly supersede provincial legislation, but it has been approved by the federal government; it is a fair practice. Whether you are female or male, there certainly has to be a balance of rights. Where do the children end up? Who takes the home? All those things have been addressed inside that bylaw.
Senator Dyck: I am happy to hear that.
Senator Sibbeston: I am interested in the spirit and the motivation of yourself and your band membership to get involved in business. Is that something that your people have always felt, or is it something that has happened in the last few years? What got you started down the road to economic development? We heard earlier that 87 per cent of First Nations in Saskatchewan are not involved in an economic development program. We were at La Ronge and saw their involvement in business but obviously not all the First Nations in Saskatchewan are doing the same thing. What I am interested to know is when did you begin your undertaking to get into business and see that as a way that you and your people could improve your lives and secure your future?
Mr. Bear: This is my twelfth year as chief of Whitecap, and I served three years prior to that. It has not happened overnight. When I was first elected, our First Nation was in a real financial mess. We had a lot of outstanding receivables and a large debt in relation to the amount of funding we were receiving. First of all, we had to ascertain to whom we owed money, and why; some of the bills were not even legitimate. There were no financial policies in place. We had to implement a financial management plan to get us out of debt. We implemented a three-year financial management plan and we were actually out of debt in two years.
From there, we started to make governance and financial policies. For example, should I have the authority to make a commitment for my band on my own? No, I should not; there mustr be checks and balances in place. I believe if any community wants to move forward, they certainly need a good, sound financial start. Unfortunately, the funding that we get for core services, called band support funding, is very inadequate so a lot of First Nations can only afford to hire clerks. We are lucky enough to have a CGA in our office. Every community needs professional services.
Funding should be based on the key services, the key professionals needed in the community to provide the expertise required. For a small First Nations, it would be X number of positions required to run your community. You certainly need a CGA, you need somebody involved with economic development, with public works and housing and with education. You need all of these professional directors who can come in with expertise. Every band needs a bundle of services: a medium-sized band needs those plus a few more, and a large band needs more than that. That is the type of funding that is necessary so far as what is required to run that community properly, from a professional perspective. If you are not getting professional services and information, how can you make good decisions?
We have been fortunate. We have surrounded ourselves with professionals and we can make good decisions. We have monthly financial meetings and we know exactly our position at any given time. That has really helped with our decision making. We have created all our governance policies and everything is community driven. As I indicated, we have at least four community meetings every year and it is the community that makes the policies; not me, not my council. Whatever they want to see inside our financial policy or our housing, our health, education, post-secondary policies, they develop them and we make it happen. They implement it and council ratifies it. It has been a good process. You need the accountability, you need the governance and then, of course, you need an infrastructure.
I was born in Saskatoon but raised in Whitecap by my grandparents. When I was young, I was hauling water; we had to saw wood because we had a wood stove; we had to dig holes for out-houses and things like that. We did not have any plumbing or sewers. I am 38 years old but it sounds like I am a pioneer. Yet we lived beside a city that had all of these services and took them for granted. Those things have changed because that was another strategy we put in place. We thought about how we could bring water, sewer, a new school, a health centre, those types of things, to our community. It evolved slowly.
After we started putting all the pieces together and the foundations in place, then we started to think about making a plan for economic development and how to afford economic development. The first thing, of course, was to look at our strengths and weaknesses. Our land base, as I indicated before, being beside a military base is some of the worst agricultural land. However, it makes a beautiful golf course. It has great drainage; it can rain, and the land just soaks it up and people are out there playing again. It has been really wonderful.
Recently, we have travelled across the country and created some really good partnerships with other First Nations. We go to Kamloops and they come here — actually they are coming here next week. We also have connections with other successful First Nations in this province. When you start meeting with other First Nations that are successful and discussing strategies and sharing ideas, it can really spin off for your community. We took a lot of ideas from Kamloops, when Manny Jules was the chief years ago. Actually, Manny is coming down on October 18th to visit our community, but their chief is coming down next week to attend this CANDO conference and they want to meet with us as well, so we have continued that good relationship.
We also have relationships with the Westbank First Nation, in Kelowna, Chief Robert Louie and Chief Sandford Bigplume and the Tsuu T'ina First Nation in Calgary. We have gone across the region and met with other First Nations and seen what they are doing, what works, what does not work, and getting ideas. That is why I think some of the leases we have developed are some of the best modern leases that you can find. Even on the 99-year residential lease, there is a renewal clause and formula for how to renew, and you can renew at any given time so that you can bring it back to 99 years and sell it at full market value. Thus the homes should not depreciate; they should appreciate. Unfortunately, in Tsuu T'ina they do not have renewal clauses so, as the leases expire and they are down to less than 40 years, the homes are losing value.
Those are the kinds of things we looked at. We have gone into the United States as well and met with the Choctaw First Nation to see what they are doing. That First Nations turned their situation around by getting involved with manufacturing. They have over 8,000 jobs, and they are the second largest employer in the State of Mississippi. When we see what other First Nations communities have done, we can try to adopt some of their ideas and use them at home. That has been an excellent thing for us.
As far as how we got here today, it has been a slow evolution. We want to continue to move forward and create a sustainable community.
Senator Sibbeston: Some people will be surprised that you are getting into the casino business. They will say that it will lead to a lot of social problems. I imagine you have had that debate in your community as to the merits and benefits of getting into the casino business, recognizing that it has its downside, but on the upside it can be a real economic boost to you. Would you just tell us how you got into that, and are there many casinos in Saskatchewan?
Mr. Bear: In Saskatchewan we have an agreement through the FSIN and the provincial government, a Gaming Framework Agreement, that allows SIGA to exist. They currently operate four casinos in Prince Albert, North Battleford, Yorkton and Whitebear First Nations. The provincial government currently operates two casinos: one in Regina and one in Moose Jaw. Through the framework agreement, 37.5 per cent of the profits got to the 74 First Nations in Saskatchewan, 37.5 per cent goes to the provincial government's general revenue fund, and 25 per cent goes to charities. That is how it is structured in Saskatchewan.
We looked at the market in Saskatoon: There is a casino that exists today called the Prairieland Exhibition Casino. We did all the market studies to make sure it was a viable project. As you say, there are pros and cons and people on each side. We do live in a free country and people do have freedom of choice and, whether you are gambling in Las Vegas or here in Saskatchewan, it is your choice. You have to make sure education is available to encourage people to be responsible. It is no different than the government operating liquor stores when there are people who abuse alcohol.
Saskatoon debated the casino issue a number of times; there was a plebiscite held in Saskatoon. We have taken it to our community and they looked at the pros and cons and it was their decision at the end of the day, and they were very supportive of having our tribal council build a casino on our reserve and to have SIGA operating that casino.
From an employment perspective, SIGA now has approximately 1,200 employees and approximately 75 or 80 per cent are First Nations. For a lot of people it is a stepping stone. They gain confidence and their self-esteem improves when they have a job, and they then wish to further their education and look for further opportunities. It has been good for Saskatchewan, as far as we are concerned. The market has not been saturated. SIGA's profits increase every year. Certainly, there are pros and cons any time you get into social vices.
The Chairman: Thank you very much, Chief Darcy Bear. I intended to ask you whether you had any recommendations, but you answered that in your final two responses.
I worked on Bill C-49, the Lands Management Act, and I am really happy that it is working. Harold Calla from the Squamish First Nation, and Manny Jules and all those folks from B.C., which is where I am from, we worked hand-in- hand to make sure it would work, so it is really encouraging to hear that it is working.
Your leadership is exemplified in the success that your band in experiencing. Keep up the good work. If there are recommendations that you have, do not hesitate to contact our committee as we would like to have as much information as possible to bring all of our Aboriginal brothers and sisters to the level of success that they deserve. Thank you again.
Our next witness is Chief Helen Ben from the Meadow Lake Tribal Council.
Chief Helen Ben, Meadow Lake Tribal Council: Thank you for the invitation to be here. This is an important project that you have taken on. Economic development is one answer we have at the First Nations level to deal with some of our issues.
I think you have all received a copy of my presentation, so I will go through it and then open the floor for any questions you might have.
One question we have asked ourselves is: Why are some First Nations doing better than others? First Nations are poor but not uniformly poor; some are doing better than others. Everyone has a theory and an opinion as to the reason for that. The Harvard Project on Indian Economic Development set out to conduct research to determine the answer.
When given an opportunity to speak to this subcommittee, why would a tribal chief from Northwest Saskatchewan start out by talking about the Harvard Project? It is because when we first heard about their research, we realized that much of our journey and our story can be characterized and summarized by their research.
Let me tell you a little bit about the Meadow Lake Tribal Council. Our vision is to create health, community wealth and good governance. To fulfil this vision, we have three aspects to our organization: political, aimed at providing good governance; programs and services, aimed at assisting communities in achieving good health; corporate, aimed at assisting our communities to create their own income and employment.
You will see in the written presentation the logos of the nine Meadow Lake First Nation communities in Northwest Saskatchewan that make up MLTC. Meadow Lake First Nations are signatories to either Treaty 6, 8 or 10. We have four Dene and five Cree communities with a population of approximately 11,000 in total. Our population is very young and is growing, and we experience many of the developmental challenges common to most Canadian First Nations.
MLFNs/MLTC provide a full basket of programs and services aimed at creating healthy communities. There are programs in the areas of education, health and social development, economic development, infrastructure development, natural resources, justice, cultural programming and elders. The goal of the tribal council is to achieve social and economic parity.
We have worked diligently to separate our political governance and business governance structures, and for the most part it works effectively.
MLTC has adopted the strategy of looking primarily for resource opportunities in its own backyard. We have adopted a conservative approach to our financial structure. Each business is self-financed, with no guarantees from any other businesses. We have completely separated our businesses from programs, since we must not put our programs at risk due to a business failure. Our businesses are separate from First Nations' finances; no guarantees have been provided by our First Nations. Profits are used for reinvestment, new projects and for underfunded programs and services at the community level.
There is a little chart there showing MLTC Resource Development Inc. and some of the industries we are involved in: forestry, energy, transportation, value-added agriculture and real estate. The solid lines around certain businesses indicate that we own 100 per cent of them; the dotted lines indicate that we own a portion.
When the Harvard Project set out to answer the question of why some Indian tribes in the U.S. are doing better than others, they put forward a hypothesis based on common sense answers. They hypothesized that the following three factors would explain the differences: Education, location — or access to markets — and/or natural resources. What they found was that the situation was much different than they had thought. It is important that there be good research in areas such as this because it is too easy for everyone to have their own pet theories and opinions.
Below you will see a chart which sets out what they found to be the case in the seven First Nations that were the subjects of the research. Pluses indicate above average; minuses indicate below average.
Looking first at Flathead, there is a plus under natural resources; education is even with a plus/minus; in location and economic development they had pluses.
Crow First Nation: pluses across the board except for economic development.
White Mount Apache: a plus in natural resources, a minus in education; location and economic development are pluses.
The researchers were left wondering why, if they have natural resources, education and location, in some cases First Nations ended up with a minus in economic development. For instance, the Crow First Nation had pluses in natural resources, education and location, but in economic development they were not doing anything.
The Mississippi Choctaw First Nation had minuses in natural resources, education and location, but in economic development they had a plus, so they were doing something. White Mount Apache and San Carlos Apache, the same situation with both: they had the same location; they are side by side, and what you find is one with a plus and one with a minus under economic development. Cochiti Pueblo had a minus for natural resources. They were even for education and location and had a plus in economic development.
There are some features common to successful First Nations. They assert the right to govern themselves and exercise that right effectively by building capable governing institutions that match their cultures. Leadership and strategic thinking are key; the task is nation building. These are the characteristics of Aboriginal communities that are doing well economically. They are a set of principles as opposed to a recipe card. The role of the chief and council in good governance is to ensure that they are considered to be governments.
It is interesting that we needed research to tell us what we already knew: that what is currently being practiced is much different than you would expect from these results.
There are several problems faced by First Nations in Canada. First Nations governments are expected to make the rules by which the community operates within the context of the Indian Act. We also expect them to be experts in delivering education, health care and other programs and services. Further, we expect First Nations governments to be experts in operating businesses. Do we expect other governments to make laws, deliver programs and run commercial enterprises?
Let the politicians represent their people, set the rules by which the community operates and set the strategic direction for programs and businesses, then have the program experts run the programs and business people run the businesses. Good governance does not guarantee business success but it does put you at the starting line. Without it you are starting miles behind your competitors. Business success is ultimately a function of management and the marketplace.
The Chairman: According to the Harvard study, self-government as a determinant of economic prosperity is without question. Among our Aboriginal peoples there are 70 linguistic groups, and there are some very small bands. We were in Northern British Columbia and there is one band there with only about 50 members, half of them youth, and a quarter elders, which leaves only about 10 or 15 people to draw from.
Have you any recommendation on how our native bands can group together? Obviously you have done this in Meadow Lake: you have four Dene and five Cree communities. How did you accomplish that? I think it is one of the challenges we have. There are some very poor communities that really do not have the capacity unless they group together with other First Nations. Could you comment on that, please?
Ms. Ben: It is well known that there is a disparity amongst First Nations in terms of economic development and even in terms of governance. They do need a model that they can work with. That is what we have tried to build at MLTC with our governance model, looking at when a band is ready. One of the things that government fails to do is to allow bands to proceed at their own pace, and it is important that that be allowed. Some First Nations are already very progressive and others have many challenges ahead of them that inhibit their progression. There must be at least a baseline self-government concept so that as the bands become ready to take on the challenges, they will be able to move forward.
The Chairman: Are you familiar with Bill S-216, the self-governance act?
Ms. Ben: Not as familiar as I should be.
The Chairman: I just throw that out as a comment because that is a bill that I have worked on for about 15 years. It is self-governance; it is not something that would ever be forced on our Aboriginal peoples but it is enabling legislation if they want to use it.
Senator Dyck: You spoke of how First Nations are expected, within the context of the Indian Act, to make the rules by which the community operates. In terms of the community rules, are there things in the Indian Act that affect men and women differently that your community might have made bylaws to deal with, say the second generation cutoff, or anything relating to matrimonial property? In your community do you have any individually-owned housing and does your community have provision for equity between men and women in the event of marriage breakdown?
Ms. Ben: That is a very problematic area. At the First Nations level, there are different designations and different rights and obligations that come as a result of that. There is also on-reserve and off-reserve differences. Those are some of the classifications you find in a reserve system and, of course, you would like to treat everybody as equally as possible and accommodate their needs equally, but you end up with these different classifications. In some cases there are people who do not have access to some infrastructure they want, or housing or something that they require for themselves. The different designations are a problem for leaders: How do you deal with meeting the needs of all of your community? There are on-reserve members who have been long-standing residents and there are other people who come in. How do you provide housing for those individuals who are newcomers to the community? The capacity is not always there at the First Nations level to deal with some of those issues.
Senator Dyck: In terms of economic development for Meadow Lake Tribal Council, what do you see as your biggest financial assets in terms of development projects? Where are you heading?
Ms. Ben: If you look at our business structure in the presentation, probably our biggest asset would be our sawmill. It has generated a lot of funds and we have been able to plough those dividends back into the communities. Approximately $25 million in the past number of years has gone out to the communities. That has helped. The communities make their own decisions about how to use those funds: some use it for housing, some for non-funded programs such as recreation, culture and so forth.
Senator Dyck: In the current economy, is it still functioning well?
Ms. Ben: We are in a crisis situation. You are probably well aware that the forestry industry is in a crisis right now, and we are sort of in a survival mode, trying to do the best we can in the current market conditions.
Senator Lovelace Nicholas: My question to you is: Do you think land claims settlements are a key to self-government and economic development for all First Nations?
Ms. Ben: To an extent, yes. In some cases, of course, there are bands which will purchase land, and that increased land base will enable them to establish businesses such as outfitting. It has created some new businesses, but it depends on the capacity of the First Nations, whether they have the people who can pursue those opportunities. Unless you have the capacity built in, some of that cannot happen right away; it takes time to get that in place.
Senator Peterson: Chief Ben, how would you rate the success of the Meadow Lake Tribal Council and what issues would you like addressed to increase your success as you move forward?
Ms. Ben: I am very proud of MLTC. I see my counterpart, Richard Gladue, is sitting here. He was a prime mover of MLTC, along with some of the other chiefs. We are continuing to progress: we are continuing to work on our governance structure; we are making sure that we are more business-minded and that our structure is less political. We are trying to make sure that we take advantage of the opportunities that are out there, and we will continue striving to do that.
We could always use more assistance from government in the form of more funding. That is always the biggest problem, trying to make sure that we have the dollars that we require in order to seek out the opportunities. There are some restrictions because of the Indian Act and that is why we are trying to create a governance model that moves us towards the goal of independence. Some of the restrictions from the Indian Act impose barriers that we have to move aside, and that create more problems for us. Again, our aim is making sure that we get the funding we need from the government so that we can continue to move forward.
One thing we have always done is reinvested some of our own monies. As we gain dollars, we reinvest to create new businesses or look at new ventures.
Senator Peterson: We have heard many times that the Indian Act is a barrier. Perhaps collectively, First Nations will need to address that.
Senator Hubley: Do you monitor employment rates through the different band councils?
Ms. Ben: As yet we have not done that, although it is something we are considering doing. At the moment, about 40 per cent of our population is between the ages of 15 and 29. That has implications for the future: How do we make sure that those individuals are trained, that we have the resources to train them? We look at what our neighbours in Alberta are doing to find jobs, and we can perhaps steer our youth in the same direction. We are also interested in what we can do in the province of Saskatchewan: What are some of the jobs that we can create? I worked in the education system for quite some time and one of the things that I found was that there are challenges, and sometimes students do not see the light at the end of the tunnel because they do not see that they will ever be able to get a job, perhaps because of some racist perceptions.
I think industry also needs to have a bigger role in this and try to make sure that some mentoring happens and that there is communication with schools and individual First Nations. We are looking at the big picture to see how we can deal with those differences and challenges faced by that 40 per cent, and how we can deal with that situation. We must have strategies in place, and that is what we are constantly working towards. I hope that answered your question.
Senator Hubley: Yes, it certainly does. There are many questions on education. I think you identified the largest one, and that is to have models for young people to follow, to have assurances that when they take the training there will be a job waiting for them. I think those are all very important issues facing you.
In your presentation you make the comment, "We have worked diligently to separate our political governance and business governance structures." We have seen one example on our trip to Saskatchewan where there is a fairly close relationship. I am sure you have good reasons for doing that and I wonder if you would comment on them?
Ms. Ben: Sometimes the roles conflict when you have to wear two hats at the table: your political hat and your business hat. Sometimes they are not compatible. We have moved towards a model which separates the two. We have developed an organization that we call RDI Investment Company, which is the corporate arm of MLTC. We operate on a basis of consensus with our nine First Nations, which sometimes makes it difficult to make business decisions when you are trying to accommodate everyone's views and come to a consensus at the table. We have found that it is best for us to say, let us put on our business hat here when we are dealing with our corporate arm, and then change to our political hats when dealing with other matters. That has been helpful with some of the challenges we face, for instance, environmental concerns; we must keep a balance in the way we deal with those things.
Senator Sibbeston: My question relates to your organization. How do you keep your four Dene and five Cree communities working together, motivated and headed in the same direction? I am sure it is challenging and I would be interested to know how that was accomplished?
Ms. Ben: I would like to think it is because they are led by a woman, but I do not think it is that. They have been together and worked very well together for more than 30 years. As I said, sometimes they wear their political hat and other times their business hat. They have started reaping dividends from some of the businesses, which is really encouraging. They are spread out across Northern Saskatchewan, which sometimes makes it difficult to bring them together, but communicating and having a common vision on which to focus does help. They all want to make sure that they provide as much as possible for their First Nation and they are building on the successes they have had.
Senator Sibbeston: Where do you think the motivation or the interest in business came from? In the Northwest Territories where I come from, there are some communities that have made the change from a bush lifestyle of hunting and trapping to an industrialized way of life, and it has been very difficult because the thinking and mentality are not the same. For a group such as yours to be all of the same mind is quite exceptional, I think. Where do you think people got the motivation and the idea that business was the way to go?
Amongst native people, particularly those who have been living on the land, sometimes there is a cynicism towards an industrialized way of life, and people who are interested in business are seen as greedy. Money means more to some people than others. I suspect that there must have been a lot of challenges and differences of opinion, yet you have been able to accomplish much. I am interested to know how it got started.
Ms. Ben: There are differences of opinion, and I am sure there always will be. I think the strength was built through the strategic thinking of some of the past leadership of MLTC, in terms of looking to the future and wanting to provide more for their First Nations. They knew they could not just sit back and allow things to continue in the way they were. I believe that is where it began: They came together and said "We need to create some of our own economic development," and they went out seeking to do that. They were able to get a loan for the sawmill and they paid for that with their own money and with hard work. They also realized that you must have good managers and a good business model. I attribute our success to the past leadership of MLTC.
The Chairman: I would like to thank you, chief, for your presentation today and your leadership, the example you are setting for our Aboriginal peoples. You are to be complimented. I gleaned from what you said that you come from a background of education. Keep up the good work. If you have any recommendations that you think would help us in formulating something that would assist our Aboriginal peoples across this nation, we would appreciate your taking the time to let us know. If there is anything this committee can do for you, we would be happy to respond to your needs. Thank you very much, and God bless.
The committee adjourned.