Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Fisheries and Oceans
Issue 5 - Minutes of Proceedings
OTTAWA, Tuesday, December 5, 2006
(15)
[English]
The Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans met this day, at 7:03 p.m., in room 2, Victoria Building, the Chair, the Honourable Bill Rompkey, P.C., presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Adams, Baker, P.C., Hubley, and Rompkey, P.C. (4).
In attendance: Claude Emery, Analyst, Parliamentary Information and Research Services, Library of Parliament.
Also in attendance: The official reporters of the Senate.
Pursuant to the Order of Reference adopted by the Senate on Tuesday, May 16, 2006, the committee continued its examination of issues relating to the federal government's new and evolving policy framework for managing Canada's fisheries and oceans. (For complete text of Order of Reference, see proceedings of the committee, Issue No. 1, dated April 27, 2006.)
WITNESSES:
Fisheries Council of Canada:
Patrick McGuinness, President.
Ecology Action Centre:
Mark Butler, Managing Director and Coordinator, Marine Issues.
Messrs. McGuinness and Butler made statements and answered questions.
At 8:48 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
ATTEST:
Till Heyde
Clerk of the Committee
OTTAWA, Thursday, December 7, 2006
(16)
[English]
The Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans met this day, at 9:40 a.m., in room 257, East Block, the Chair, the Honourable Bill Rompkey, P.C., presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Adams, Baker, P.C., Comeau, Cowan, Hubley, Johnson, Rompkey, P.C., and Watt (8).
Other senator present: The Honourable Senator Carney, P.C. (1).
In attendance: Claude Emery, Analyst, Parliamentary Information and Research Services, Library of Parliament; Office of the Senate Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel: Mark Audcent, Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel; Janice Tokar, Legislative Drafter.
Also in attendance: The official reporters of the Senate.
Pursuant to the Order of Reference adopted by the Senate on Tuesday, November 28, 2006, the committee began its examination of Bill S-220, to protect heritage lighthouses.
WITNESSES:
The Honourable Senator Pat Carney, P.C., sponsor of the bill.
Parks Canada:
Larry Ostola, Director General, National Historic Sites;
Patricia Kell, Director, Policy and Government Relations, National Historic Sites;
Doug Tapley, Manager, Cabinet Affairs.
Fisheries and Oceans Canada:
Cal Hegge, Assistant Deputy Minister, Human Resources and Corporate Services;
David Burden, Director, Real Property, Divestiture.
The Chair made a statement.
Senator Carney, P.C., made a statement and answered questions.
The Chair made a statement.
Mr. Burden made a statement. Mr. Ostola made a statement. Mr. Hegge made a statement. The witnesses answered questions.
The Chair made a statement.
It was agreed that the witnesses remain at the table to answer questions during clause-by-clause consideration of Bill S-220. The witnesses answered questions from time to time.
It was agreed that the committee proceed to clause-by-clause consideration of Bill S-220, to protect heritage lighthouses.
It was agreed that the title stand postponed.
It was agreed that the preamble stand postponed.
It was agreed that clause 1, containing the short title, stand postponed.
The Chair asked whether clause 2 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved:
That Bill S-220 be amended in clause 2,
(a) on page 1,
(i) by adding after line 22 the following:
````advisory committee'' means the advisory committee established by the Minister under section 9.1.'',
(ii) by adding after line 25 the following:
````established criteria'' means the criteria established by the Minister under paragraph 18(a).'', and
(iii) by deleting lines 26 to 29; and
(b) on page 2,
(i) by replacing lines 3 and 4 with the following:
``this Act, and includes any related building that is included in the designation.'',
(ii) by replacing line 10 with the following:
``use as an aid to navigation.'',
(iii) by replacing lines 11 to 14 with the following:
````Minister'' means the Minister responsible for the Parks Canada Agency.'',
(iv) by deleting line 15, and
(v) by replacing lines 16 to 19 with the following:
````related building'', in relation to a lighthouse, means any building on the site on which the lighthouse is situated that contributes to the heritage character of the lighthouse.''.
Debate arose thereon.
At 11:36 a.m., the committee suspended.
At 11:50 a.m., the committee resumed.
After debate, with leave, it was agreed that clause 2 stand postponed.
The Chair asked whether clause 3 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved:
That Bill S-220 be amended in clause 3, on page 2, by replacing lines 23 to 27 with the following:
``nation of heritage lighthouses; and
(b) regulating the alteration, disposition and maintenance of heritage lighthouses.''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived.
It was agreed that clause 3 carry.
The Chair asked whether clause 4 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved:
That Bill S-220 be amended in clause 4, on page 2, by replacing lines 28 to 30 with the following:
``4. This Act applies to lighthouses that are the property of Her Majesty in right of Canada.''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
It was agreed that clause 4, as amended, carry.
It was agreed that clause 5 carry.
The Chair asked whether clause 6 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved:
That Bill S-220 be amended in clause 6, on page 2,
(a) by replacing lines 33 and 34 with the following:
``6. (1) The Minister may, at any time, taking into account the established criteria,''; and
(b) by replacing line 38 with the following:
``include any related building that the Minister considers should be included in the designation, taking into account the established criteria.''.
After debate, the Honourable Senator Baker, P.C. moved that the word ``building'' be replaced with the words ``built structure''.
The question being put on the sub-amendment, it was adopted, on division.
The question being put on the motion in amendment, as amended, it was adopted, on division.
It was agreed that clause 6, as amended, carry.
The Chair asked whether clause 7 shall carry.
After debate, it was agreed to invite Mark Audcent and Janice Tokar to the table. Mr. Audcent and Ms. Tokar answered questions from time to time.
After debate, clause 7 was negatived.
The Chair asked whether clause 8 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved:
That Bill S-220 be amended in clause 8, on page 3,
(a) by replacing line 24 with the following:
``into account the established criteria,'';
(b) by replacing line 26 with the following:
``which the Minister receives a petition; and''; and
(c) by replacing lines 29 to 35 with the following:
``whether any related buildings should be included in the designations, and make the appropriate designations.''.
After debate, with leave, it was agreed to suspend consideration of the motion in amendment to clause 8 and to revert to the consideration of the amendment of the Honourable Senator Comeau to clause 2.
After debate, the Honourable Senator Baker, P.C. moved that, in the amendment to clause 2, the word ``building'' be replaced with the words ``built structure''.
After debate, the question being put on the sub-amendment, it was adopted on the following vote:
YEAS: The Honourable Senators Baker, Cowan, Hubley, Johnson and Watt — 5.
NAYS: The Honourable Senator Comeau — 1.
The question being put on the motion in amendment, as amended, it was adopted.
It was agreed that clause 2, as amended, carry.
The committee resumed consideration the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Comeau to clause 8.
After debate, it was agreed that, in the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Comeau to clause 8, the word ``building'' be replaced with the words ``built structure''.
The question being put on the motion in amendment, as amended, it was adopted.
It was agreed that clause 8, as amended, carry.
The Chair asked whether clause 9 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved:
That Bill S-220 be amended in clause 9, on page 3, by replacing line 43 with the following:
``it has been desig-''.
The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
It was agreed that clause 9, as amended, carry.
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved:
That Bill S-220 be amended, on page 3, by adding after line 44 the following:
``9.1 The Minister must establish an advisory committee to advise and assist the Minister on matters relating to heritage lighthouses, including the designation and protection of heritage lighthouses and the establishment of criteria for their designation, alteration and maintenance.''.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Chair asked whether clause 10 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved:
That Bill S-220 be amended in clause 10,
(a) on page 3, by replacing lines 45 to 51 with the following:
``10. The Minister must consult with the advisory committee, and may consult with any other persons or bodies that the Minister considers appropriate, before determining whether a lighthouse should be designated as a heritage lighthouse and whether any related building should be included in the designation.''; and
(b) on page 4, by deleting lines 1 to 13.
After debate, it was agreed that, in the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Comeau to clause 10, the word ``building'' be replaced with the words ``built structure''.
The question being put on the motion in amendment, as amended, it was adopted.
It was agreed that clause 10, as amended, carry.
The Chair asked whether clause 11 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved:
That Bill S-220 be amended in clause 11, on page 4,
(a) by replacing lines 14 to 18 with the following:
``11. (1) A heritage lighthouse, or any part of it, may only be altered in accordance with the criteria and procedures established under paragraph 18(b).''; and
(b) by replacing lines 24 to 29 with the following:
``does not affect the heritage character of the heritage lighthouse.''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
It was agreed that clause 11, as amended, carry.
The Chair asked whether clause 12 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved:
That Bill S-220 be amended in clause 12, on page 4, by replacing lines 30 to 41 with the following:
``12. (1) A heritage lighthouse, or any part of it, may only be transferred to Her Majesty in right of a province or sold if a notice is published at least 90 days before the transfer or sale in one or more newspapers of general circulation in the area in which the lighthouse is situated.
(2) A heritage lighthouse, or any part of it, may only be sold if a public meeting is held on the matter in the area in which the lighthouse is situated, unless the sale is to a municipality.
(3) Any transaction effecting a transfer to Her Majesty in right of a province or a sale shall provide for the protection of the heritage character of the heritage lighthouse by any means that the Minister may authorize.''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
It was agreed that clause 12, as amended, carry.
The Chair asked whether clause 13 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved:
That Bill S-220 be amended in clause 13,
(a) on page 4, by replacing lines 42 to 45 with the following:
``13. (1) A heritage lighthouse, or any part of it, may only be demolished if there is no reasonable alternative and if a notice is published at least 90 days before the demolition in one or more newspapers of general circulation in the area in which the lighthouse is situated.''; and
(b) on page 5, by replacing lines 1 to 14 with the following:
``(2) Subsection (1) does not apply in respect of the demolition of a heritage lighthouse in response to any emergency situation or an urgent operational requirement.''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
It was agreed that clause 13, as amended, carry.
The Chair asked whether clause 14 shall carry.
After debate, clause 14 was negatived.
The Chair asked whether clause 15 shall carry.
After debate, clause 15 was negatived.
The Chair asked whether clause 16 shall carry.
After debate, clause 16 was negatived.
The Chair asked whether clause 17 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved:
That Bill S-220 be amended in clause 17, on page 6, by replacing lines 25 to 27 with the following:
``maintain it in accordance with the criteria established under paragraph 18(c).''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
It was agreed that clause 17, as amended, carry.
The Chair asked whether clause 18 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved:
That Bill S-220 be amended in clause 18,
(a) on page 6,
(i) by replacing lines 28 to 30 with the following:
``18. The Minister must
(a) establish criteria to be taken into'', and
(ii) by replacing lines 33 to 46 with the following:
``lighthouse and whether any related building should be included in the designation;
(b) establish criteria and procedures respecting the alteration of heritage lighthouses that are in keeping with national and international standards for the conservation of heritage properties; and
(c) establish criteria for the maintenance of heritage lighthouses that are in keeping with national and international standards for the conservation of heritage properties.''; and
(b) on page 7, by deleting lines 1 and 2.
After debate, it was agreed that, in the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Comeau to clause 18, the word ``building'' be replaced with the words ``built structure''.
After debate, the Honourable Senator Baker, P.C. moved that that the amendment, as amended, be amended by adding a new subsection (d) with wording to be finalized in consultation with the clerk and law clerk in order to establish criteria giving all interested persons a reasonable opportunity to make representations concerning any proposed alteration of a heritage lighthouse or any part of it, and that a public meeting be held concerning the proposed alteration.
After debate, the question being put on the sub-amendment, it was adopted on the following recorded division:
YEAS: The Honourable Senators Baker, Cowan, Hubley, Johnson and Watt — 5.
NAYS: Nil.
It was agreed that the motion in amendment, as amended, carry.
It was agreed that clause 18, as amended, carry.
It was agreed that clause 19 carry.
It was agreed that clause 1, containing the short title, carry.
It was agreed that the preamble carry.
It was agreed that the title carry.
It was agreed that the Bill, as amended, carry.
It was agreed that the Chair report the Bill to the Senate, as amended.
At 1:15 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
ATTEST:
Catherine Piccinin
Acting Clerk of the Committee
OTTAWA, Tuesday, December 12, 2006
(17)
[English]
The Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans met this day, in camera, at 7:08 p.m., in room 505, Victoria Building, the Chair, the Honourable Bill Rompkey, P.C., presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Adams, Baker, P.C., Campbell, Cowan, Gill, Hubley, Johnson, Rompkey, P.C., and Watt (9).
In attendance: Claude Emery, Analyst, Parliamentary Information and Research Services, Library of Parliament.
Pursuant to the Order of Reference adopted by the Senate on Tuesday, May 16, 2006, the committee continued its examination of issues relating to the federal government's new and evolving policy framework for managing Canada's fisheries and oceans. (For complete text of Order of Reference, see proceedings of the committee, Issue No. 1, dated April 27, 2006.)
The committee considered its agenda.
At 7:56 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
ATTEST:
Till Heyde
Clerk of the Committee