Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 11 - Evidence, February 5, 2007
OTTAWA, Monday, February 5, 2007
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day at 4 p.m. to study and to report from time to time on the application of the Official Languages Act and of the regulations and directives made under it, within those institutions subject to the act.
Senator Maria Chaput (Chairman) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Honourable senators, I would like to call the meeting to order. Welcome to this meeting of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages.
[English]
Before we hear the witness's presentation let me introduce the members of the committee.
[Translation]
On my left is Senator Andrée Champagne, deputy chair of the committee, as well as Senator Gerald Comeau and Senator Lowell Murray, while on my right is Senator Rose-Marie Losier-Cool.
Today, we continue our study of the application of the Official Languages Act.
[English]
We will be hearing testimony from officials with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police regarding draft regulations that would amend the official language regulations. This is in response to the Federal Court of Canada's decision in Doucet v. Canada. The court ruled that the present regulations are incompatible with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
[Translation]
We have invited these representatives here to offer their views on the draft regulations published last October by the Treasury Board Secretariat.
[English]
The topic will include the services offered by the RCMP on the Trans-Canada Highway in the two official languages of Canada.
[Translation]
We welcome to the committee Louise Morel, Chief Superintendent, Director General, Employee and Management Relations.
[English]
Ms. Barbara George, Deputy Commissioner, Human Resources; Mr. Scott Merrithew, OIC Policing Agreement Section;
[Translation]
Mr. Gilbert Groulx, Senior Counsel, Legal Services.
[English]
Barbara George, Deputy Commissioner, Human Resources, Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP): I would like to thank you for inviting the RCMP to come before the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages. I thought it would be useful to provide you with a brief overview of the RCMP policing services, some highlights of our official languages situation and performance, and comments on the proposed amendments to the official languages regulations on service to the public.
[Translation]
The RCMP is recognized worldwide as a police organization of excellence, providing international, federal, provincial and municipal policing services. Constitutionally, the provinces are responsible for the administration of justice in the provinces, including enforcement of the Criminal Code. As per the RCMP Act, the Minister of Public Security has the authority to enter into police service agreements with provinces, territories and municipalities for the provision of policing services by the RCMP.
[English]
Under the authority of police service agreements or contract policing, the RCMP provides policing services to all provinces and territories in Canada, with the exception of Ontario and Quebec, to approximately 200 municipalities and to approximately 550 Aboriginal communities via more than 650 detachments which cover 75 per cent of Canada's geography.
Under the terms and conditions of the policing agreements, the contracting province, territory or municipality establishes, in consultation with the RCMP, the level of policing services in their jurisdiction, including policing priorities, budget and human resource levels.
The terms and conditions of the police service agreements are essentially identical in each province and territory. These agreements will expire on March 31, 2012.
[Translation]
Now, I would like to explain in more detail how the police service agreements are administered.
When providing service under an agreement, the RCMP works under the general direction of the provincial Attorney General or municipal chief executive officer, while remaining under the control and command of the RCMP Commissioner who, in turn, reports to the Department of the Solicitor General, as described in section 5 of the RCMP Act.
The RCMP Commissioner determines the RCMP's human resource policies and sets the professional standards for the force. Convention and jurisprudence establish that the RCMP is entirely independent with respect to the conduct of criminal investigations.
Jurisdictional responsibility for policing of the Trans-Canada Highway varies from province to province. The Trans-Canada Highway can be policed entirely by the provincial police service or policing responsibilities can be shared between provincial and municipal police forces.
[English]
The value of contract policing to Canadians, contracting jurisdictions and the Government of Canada is significant. I would like to mention a few benefits.
Integration of municipal, provincial and federal policing services in a single policing organization, such as the RCMP, allows for greater interaction and sharing of intelligence and resources.
The RCMP contributes to Canadian sovereignty as contract members are often the federal government's sole representative in many remote and isolated areas promoting Canadian unity through a highly visible, highly trained, effective and professional police service, bringing credit to Canada.
Rapid redeployment of law enforcement resources who can cross jurisdictions freely to meet planned or unforeseen policing events, acts of terrorism or conflict, emergencies and disaster response is a benefit.
Standardized policies, procedures and protocols based on best practices and vast experience are of value.
Contract policing leverages the weight and support of approximately 24,000 employees to put national focus on programs to change behaviour and contribute to public policy, making every community in Canada a safer place.
Contract policing resources are also an excellent conduit for intergovernmental relationships. The Red Serge is seen at local community, national and international events making it one of the most recognizable symbols of Canada. It is an icon representing peace, order, stability and equality.
Finally, contract policing represents a major success in Canadian cooperative federalism. By sharing resources and costs, both the federal government and the contract jurisdictions are able to provide a more efficient and effective policing service for the benefit of Canadians than either could do acting alone.
[Translation]
The RCMP fully supports the objectives of the Official Languages Act and Official Languages Regulations. In its contractual role with eight of the ten provinces (Ontario and Quebec excluded) and three territories, the RCMP maintains its federal obligations regarding federal statutes such as the RCMP Act and the Official Languages Act.
As a federal agency, our goal is to provide exemplary bilingual services to the public in accordance with the requirements of the Official Languages Act and the Official Languages Regulations.
Geographically speaking, in this country, the RCMP is in a unique situation with regard to the location of our policing resources, which are spread out with over 650 detachments Canada-wide. I should point out that approximately 60 per cent of RCMP employees — mostly regular members — work in Western or Northern Canada. Currently, more than 200 detachments across Canada are required to provide services in both official languages.
Over the last few years, we have succeeded in increasing the bilingual capacity of our workforce.
[English]
In 2006, 88 per cent of employees in bilingual positions serving the public met the language requirements of their positions. That represents an increase of 7 per cent over the past two years.
In the National Capital Region, 95 per cent of incumbents in bilingual positions providing service to the public meet the necessary language requirements.
Thanks to these high levels of bilingual capacity, the RCMP ensures that the communications and services it provides to the public through its designated bilingual detachments and offices are available in both official languages. It is estimated that RCMP employees conduct at least 15 million transactions each year with the public. Last year only 14 complaints concerning bilingual service to the public were lodged against the RCMP. I will stop here to recognize that even one complaint is too many, but out of 15 million transactions, the record stands.
In 2005-06, in a survey of Canadian citizens conducted by Strategic Policy and Planning, 91 per cent of the 7,700 citizens surveyed agreed with the statement, "The RCMP places an emphasis on providing services in the language of my choice, English or French."
[Translation]
As I mentioned previously, the RCMP fully supports the objectives of the Official Languages Act and Official Languages Regulations. The RCMP does not make the laws of Canada; it simply applies and enforces them. Its motto is very significant in this regard: "Maintiens le droit."
As a federal agency and provider of policing services to Canadians, it would be inappropriate for me to express a position on any possible amendments to the Official Languages Regulations. We acknowledge and respect that any amendment to the Regulations is the responsibility of the federal government.
[English]
In this context, the RCMP stance ready to respect the final amendment to the official languages regulations on service to the public as approved by the Governor-in-Council in order to ensure that the decision of the Federal Court is respected.
I now welcome your questions.
[Translation]
Senator Champagne: My first question might seem a little simple, but I am trying to understand your text, which was given to us in both official languages. The French reads:
La GRC, tout en restant sous le contrôle et le commandement du commissaire de la GRC qui relève du solliciteur général du Canada, comme le prévoit l'article 5. . . .
[English]
The English reads: "while remaining under the control and command of the Commissioner of the RCMP who is in turn under the direction of the Minister of Public Safety."
Which is it?
Ms. George: I am sorry, but I do not understand the question.
[Translation]
The French reads: "Le commissaire de la GRC relève du solliciteur général du Canada."
[English]
In English, it indicates he is under the direction of the Minister of Public Safety.
Ms. George: You are absolutely correct.
Senator Champagne: One is right, the other is obviously incorrect.
Ms. George: It should read in English and in French, the Minister of Public Safety. Thank you for the correction.
[Translation]
Senator Champagne: I was trying to understand under whose authority they are working.
Currently, you are indicating that a very high percentage of people seem satisfied with the bilingual services provided by the RCMP while on duty on various Canadian highways. However, we are aware of problems, especially in the Maritime provinces. What solutions do you have so that these problems can be resolved once and for all? Along sections of the Trans-Canada Highway, for example, do you have any solutions to propose for dealing with cases where members of the public speak only one of our two official languages? What about when providing assistance to people in need or when reprimanding them? At this time, can we at least provide these services in the language that these people are familiar with?
What are you doing to resolve these problems?
[English]
Ms. George: Along the Trans-Canada Highway, we have 122 detachments. Right now, 47 of those detachments offer bilingual services. The other detachments may very well have bilingual capacity for motorists or other people who wish to have services in English or in French. For the RCMP, if an individual wished to have services in French, there are several ways that service could be offered. One could be to stop the intervention right then and have another person come deal with the individual in the second official language. Sometimes there is an opportunity for the individual to speak with a person who speaks their language over the police radio. Very rarely are we unable to satisfy an individual's need to have the service offered in his or her official language of choice.
Senator Champagne: Obviously, though, being bilingual is not a must for your agents working even on those parts of the highways where they might encounter people who are French or English speaking.
Ms. George: As I said, presently we have 122 detachments scattered throughout Canada.
Senator Murray: In eight provinces?
Ms. George: In eight provinces; that is correct. However, we do have bilingual capacity in many of those detachments that are not considered to be bilingually enforced. In other words, 47 detachments are bilingual. That has to do with the demand for service. As one can imagine, the demand for service would fluctuate. One could expect in certain areas of Canada to have a higher demand for service in French or in English than in other parts of Canada. Presently, we have designated 47 of the 122 detachments to be bilingual.
Senator Champagne: Even in a bilingual detachment, not every agent in that detachment would be bilingual. It means that that detachment has some bilingual agents.
Ms. George: That is correct.
[Translation]
Senator Losier-Cool: I would like to follow up on Senator Champagne's comments regarding services provided in both official languages along the Trans-Canada Highway. Earlier on, you said that providing policing services along the Trans-Canada Highway was a provincial responsibility (with Ontario and Quebec being the exception). Specifically, you said that jurisdictional responsibility for policing of the Trans-Canada Highway varies from province to province. The Trans-Canada Highway can be policed entirely by the provincial police service or policing responsibilities can be shared between provincial and municipal police forces.
The committee heard testimony from a number of witnesses when it travelled to Nova Scotia and the main focus of attention seemed to be Amherst. By the way, are there a certain number of bilingual police officers in Amherst?
[English]
Ms. George: Amherst's traffic services currently has two bilingual positions filled with one bilingual incumbent. We are presently searching to fill the second bilingual position and we believe we will have that member at the latest by April of this year. There are at least two bilingual members in Cumberland District, which encompasses Oxford and Parrsboro detachments. They will serve as backup to the Amherst detachment.
On the municipal side of the detachment, three positions are currently being made bilingual. The incumbents of those positions will commence language training this winter. In fact, they may already have done so.
[Translation]
Senator Losier-Cool: Thank you for that information. Getting back to the basic question that I wanted to ask you, the groups that met with the committee said to us many times that providing bilingual services along the Trans-Canada Highway is not really a viable proposition from an economic and human resource standpoint. Is this true?
[English]
Ms. George: Yes, there will be impacts on the organization. I see the impacts in three major areas. First, there would be an impact on our recruiting. Currently, while it is a priority to recruit bilingual or even trilingual individuals, in keeping with the police service agreements, each province would expect — indeed it is written into the agreements — that they will have a certain percentage of recruitment coming from their provinces. We will adhere to those police service agreements. That presents a certain challenge.
Second, training could be incorporated for our existing members who would benefit from French or second- language training. Again, this is entirely individual. It could depend on the time taken for an individual to attend language school; it could be for as little as four months to a year or beyond. The RCMP would bear the language training costs plus salary costs.
Third, we could look at redeployment of our existing members throughout the organization. Obviously, we are very fortunate in that many members have bilingual capacity. However, it may prove to be a bit difficult to transfer members from one work environment to another. Some of our bilingual members already have different career aspirations and could be working in a different environment or aspect of policing. We would need to redeploy certain individuals along the Trans-Canada Highway, which could cause problems.
Senator Losier-Cool: Are your bilingual members bilingual when they start their training, or do you offer courses on the two official languages during their training?
Ms. George: Generally speaking, when we do our recruiting, we are very fortunate to attract a good number of bilingual cadets. They will come into training bilingual or have a certain status in their bilingualism. We recently graduated 40 cadets through our depot in Regina who for the most part were unilingual French. We have an agreement with the University of Saskatchewan, which provides these individuals with an intensive, 11-week English-language training program. When they leave the university environment those cadets will come into our training academy at Regina and be given their six months of RCMP police training, which is given to them in French. This program is working extremely well for that cohort. We have 40 graduated already and we anticipate at least two troops through this.
We also offer training for unilingual English cadets. As well, often other members who are engaged in their careers will aspire to different jobs within the organization. Those jobs will come with a language classification, and those members have to proceed to language school. That, too, will be provided as much as is operationally feasible.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Following up on Senator Losier-Cool's question, when you provide training for RCMP personnel who are unilingual francophones, you provide intensive language training so that they can learn English. Is the same type of training provided to RCMP officers who are unilingual anglophones?
[English]
Ms. George: No, it would be some other form of language training. As you can imagine, the number of cadets that we are currently looking to process through depot is quite high. We anticipate numbers approaching 2,000 cadets. For us to offer the majority of those cadets the same opportunity that we are affording our unilingual francophones would be cost prohibitive. Also, it would add an extra 11 weeks to what is probably the longest police training in North America. We do offer other opportunities as one progresses through one's career.
[Translation]
Senator Champagne: If I understand correctly, it is very important for a francophone to learn English. However, for anglophones, it is more a case of learning French later on, if they have time. Did I understand you correctly to just say that?
[English]
Ms. George: Actually, we are responding to the demand for service. To give our unilingual French-speaking cadets coming into depot a good grounding enables us to offer them a career in any part of Canada. We must be aware of the Canada Labour Code requirements, which speak to the fact that individuals in policing must be able to work in the official language of their environment. This training gives them a good grounding and a good opportunity throughout their career. They are very grateful for this opportunity and thoroughly enjoy their training in French.
[Translation]
Senator Comeau: Earlier on, you mentioned that you have contracts with the provinces for the provision of policing services by the RCMP. I assume therefore that this includes eight provinces and two or three territories. Do most candidates who apply for jobs with the RCMP come from these provinces or do you also recruit candidates from the provinces of Ontario and Quebec?
[English]
Ms. George: We are looking for every good candidate we can find all across Canada. We have mounted every effort we can, particularly for the central region, which includes Quebec and Ontario. It is a little more challenging for us to attract candidates into the RCMP in the two provinces where we do not provide contract policing because we do not have the visibility, but we do have good success.
[Translation]
Senator Comeau: Judging from the contracts with the provinces in which you provide policing services — such as Nova Scotia or New Brunswick — you do in fact recruit a certain percentage of candidates from these provinces. Correct?
[English]
Ms. George: That is correct, sir.
[Translation]
Senator Comeau: In these contracts with the provinces, could we include a stipulation whereby, for example, 50 per cent or 35 per cent of candidates from New Brunswick must be bilingual? Could Nova Scotia request that at least 10 per cent of its candidates be bilingual?
[English]
Ms. George: That is an interesting concept but what we are doing is trying to get the best of Canada into the RCMP.
Scott Merrithew, OIC Policing Agreement Section, Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP): Perhaps I can add to that. The policing agreement stipulates a ratio for contribution on a recruitment basis. It is prorated over the number of officers located in each of the provinces. Obviously, given our demand for good cadets, we are taking as many as we possibly can.
My experience has been that no provincial or territorial jurisdiction has indicated a linguistic preference or a percentage to us.
Senator Comeau: They have not done so, but it could be done.
Mr. Merrithew: They could certainly make the request. There is nothing that prevents them from doing that.
Senator Comeau: I am just on a little fishing expedition.
[Translation]
It probably comes as no surprise to you that we wanted to review the Trans-Canada Highway matter. You were probably expecting this to be the main topic of discussion.
Having said that, have you examined in detail what it would cost to provide bilingual services along the Trans- Canada Highway, with the exception, of course, of Ontario and Quebec? First of all, would this be possible? If not, what would be needed to make this possible?
[English]
Ms. George: Not at this time. If the government were to agree on amendments, the RCMP would abide by those amendments. Given the context, we would have to study that. At that time, we would undertake to do some analysis.
[Translation]
Senator Comeau: I suppose therefore this committee could ask you to crunch the numbers.
[English]
Could this committee ask you to do the number crunching or would that request have to come from the Solicitor General?
Ms. George: I would imagine that the Solicitor General would give the RCMP a context to say that we would augment this percentage or offer you some change in the environment, either geographical or numbers. At that point, we would undertake to understand the context and to look at the impacts on both human resources and finances.
[Translation]
Senator Comeau: Would that be possible? I believe that the question has to be asked, bearing in mind the circumstances.
[English]
Ms. George: I am a firm believer that almost anything is possible. It would take time, effort and, no doubt, an increase in federal funding for us to attain those goals.
Senator Comeau: It would be nice to know the amount of those federal dollars.
[Translation]
Senator Comeau: I would like to talk about Amherst. As a result of this court ruling, you will now be required to have a bilingual police officer on duty. How will this work exactly? The police officer leaving the Amherst detachment to patrol the Trans-Canada Highway will need to be bilingual. Correct? We need to see how this will work.
[English]
Mr. Merrithew: With respect to implementing the bilingual positions in that area, these members would become part of the regular enforcement team so as to ensure their availability on shift at all times. Thus, that detachment would be able to offer those services as and when required.
[Translation]
Senator Comeau: At some point, you will probably be told that your patrol area extends within a certain number of kilometres of the New Brunswick and Nova Scotia border. Is that right?
[English]
They will patrol a specified distance. Is that correct?
Mr. Merrithew: The current understanding is that it will include the entire area that Amherst is required to police, starting at the Nova Scotia-New Brunswick border and continuing down to Oxford and Amherst.
Senator Murray: It is Oxford and Pugwash.
The two elephants not in the room today are Ontario and Quebec, and they are not part of this study. It would be useful to learn what agreements exist between Ottawa and those two provinces to ensure that there is a standard of bilingual service in the policing of the many, many kilometres of Trans-Canada Highway in those provinces. Those of us who may have run afoul of the traffic police in Quebec will know that they are very bilingual indeed when it comes to handing out tickets. It would be interesting to know what assurance there is that bilingualism is in place.
I have been observing, from a considerable distance, the RCMP on this and other matters for some time for reasons with which I will not bore the committee.
Approximately how many recruits do you take in each year?
Ms. George: Had you asked me three years ago, I would have said approximately 700 recruits. That number has been increasing steadily over the last several years such that we are looking at an intake of about 2,000 as soon as we can get to that number next year for 2008.
Senator Murray: That is higher than I would have imagined. Explain the proportional representation of eight provinces, with which you have contracts. Each of them is entitled, if I understand correctly, to a certain number of those 700 or 2,000 recruits each year. Is that the case? How does it work?
Mr. Merrithew: It is prorated based on the establishment within that provincial or territorial jurisdiction and against the total number of recruits required. As I mentioned earlier, the challenge is that the demand is so high that we are taking cadets as soon as they are ready to be processed. We have communicated that to the provincial and territorial jurisdictions. They realize the situation and understand the efforts that we are undertaking.
Senator Murray: In most cases, the proportion to which they are entitled is achieved; is that correct?
Mr. Merrithew: For the most part, yes. You might see fluctuations between fiscal periods but, averaged out over a number of years, they are content. Concerns have not been expressed to us over the last number of years regarding the number of cadets coming from the various jurisdictions.
Senator Murray: What about the supply of applicants? Are there far more applicants than there are recruits?
Ms. George: We are hearing these days about the shrinking applicant pool. Both government and the private sector are fishing in the same pool for good-quality young Canadians, and policing is no different. Certainly, the competition is stiff these days to find acceptable people.
Senator Murray: What is the profile of an acceptable person?
Ms. George: It is a general profile. The RCMP would like to have individuals who are in good health; at least 18 years of age and, by the time they are processed to go to depot, at least 19 years of age; have a valid Canadian driver's licence; and have at least a Grade 12 education. As well, all applicants have to be Canadian citizens. Some of the other police services can take landed immigrants but the RCMP does not.
Senator Murray: Am I correct in saying that RCMP policy requires you to recruit a certain number of Aboriginals, women and visible minorities each year?
Ms. George: As a national police service, the RCMP aspires to represent well the Canadian mosaic. We like to be representative of the people we police.
Senator Murray: Is there a specific government or RCMP policy containing target numbers?
Ms. George: We do have an RCMP policy in keeping with government directives.
Senator Murray: Do you have a quota? Do you know what you need?
Ms. George: We would like to be represented based on the population of Canada. For example, a certain percentage of the population is Aboriginal and we would like to be representative of that percentage.
Senator Murray: It would be interesting to see the numbers for the entire force. I am sure those numbers exist somewhere.
Ms. George: I could forward that to the committee.
Senator Murray: In preparing for this meeting, we were provided with a lot of material, including an excerpt from a recent report of the Commissioner of Official Languages. The RCMP, of all the government agencies and departments, had a very long way to go in the early days, as we recall. The report reads:
Since the 1970s, the RCMP has certainly made progress in official languages. For example, training is now given in both official languages at its Regina school, where some 40 per cent of the instructors are bilingual. Every year, a Francophone contingent is created. Since 1993, communication with candidates wishing to enter the force must be in both languages.
Unfortunately, these advances have not prevented the RCMP from being the subject of many complaints, inquiries, and language audits over the years. . . . The RCMP must ensure that its detachments have the language capacities required to effectively meet the needs of the communities it serves.
I draw from that that the RCMP has been working on this with some success over a period of years and is making good progress.
With regard to the Trans-Canada Highway, we need to hear that you are making progress and that you have a plan to ensure, to the greatest extent possible, that services will be available to the travelling public in both official languages.
Ms. George: You are correct. We aspire to provide bilingual services to the travelling Canadian public. Of the 122 detachments along the Trans-Canada Highway, 47 are designated bilingual.
If government decides that we must have greater representation, or if the context for the RCMP has changed, we will definitely undertake to adhere to government decisions.
Senator Murray: I appreciate that. I expect you would.
I hear what you are saying about Amherst. I know that area fairly well. There is bilingual capacity in Amherst and backup in Oxford and Pugwash. That is progress. I will not go through the whole Trans-Canada Highway in the other eight provinces. The needs will vary for certain.
Is there a plan identifying the linguistic priorities along the Trans-Canada Highway and will you establish some priority to that plan? The Official Languages Act does specify members of the travelling public, among whom I would include people who travel in their automobiles along the Trans-Canada Highway, not just those who travel by plane and rail. It should not be necessary for the government to change the context, as you put it, of the RCMP. You know where the gaps are in linguistic terms in the force in general. The Trans-Canada Highway is one of those. Tell us that you will have a plan.
Ms. George: Sir, as I said before, we are doing our very best to respect the official languages laws and regulations of Canada. From a recent survey, we are told that approximately 18 per cent of Canadians are bilingual. Within the RCMP, 18 per cent of our members have bilingual capacity. We are reflecting the official languages laws and regulations, and the RCMP is doing a good job of respecting the tenets of the laws.
Senator Murray: I applaud what you are doing, deputy commissioner, especially in the context of the need to recruit proportionately from the provinces with which you have a contract. You are taking people in from Newfoundland, British Columbia, Nova Scotia and areas where they are less likely to be bilingual and you are training them, and by all accounts you are doing a good job of it. I do not take any of that away from you; I applaud it and congratulate you on your progress. Nevertheless, we need to know that you will have a plan to address the problem identified here with as much success as you have achieved elsewhere.
Ms. George: We are going a bit around in circles and I apologize for that.
Getting back to the decision for Amherst, we will meet all the requirements of that decision shortly. If the context changes, the RCMP is ready to comply with the laws. As we acknowledged here, it will require time and effort and certainly funding to do so. Regarding changes to the context and the environment, I cannot tell you how long it would take. Should there be a decree from government that the RCMP must change its current context, I can tell you that we will do the gap analysis. There will be a plan for us to attain whatever is decreed by government and the laws.
Senator Murray: I do not think you need a change in context; I think you have the law and the policy. I think the travelling public is specifically identified in the Official Languages Act. I know how hard it is and I know it will take time, but I think you have the capacity over time to achieve this. I think you ought to make this a priority. However, I do not know what other language priorities may have more urgency. I hope you get a plan.
[Translation]
Senator Losier-Cool: I would like to follow up on the issue of the travelling public. As you know, the 2010 Olympic Games will be taking place in Whistler. The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages has met with several people — including the Mayor of Vancouver and Ms. Bissonnette, who was at the Olympic Games in Turin — who hope that Canada will set an example by displaying its real commitment to both official languages. There is nothing more Canadian than the RCMP, and the focus will certainly be on them with regard to the services that they provide.
Are you able to ensure that the travelling public — as referred to by Senator Murray — who will be coming by plane or train or overland from Vancouver to Whistler, will be provided with bilingual service when in contact with the RCMP?
[English]
Ms. George: Happily I can report that we do have an official languages plan that is an integral part of the planning strategy for the 2010 Olympics. The RCMP is working to ensure the availability of bilingual services. The Olympics will be an excellent opportunity for the RCMP to help promote the nation's linguistic duality and culture. Again, happily, within British Columbia we have almost 300 regular and civilian francophone members currently. Combined with the additional bilingual members who will be brought in from all across the country for the Olympics, we are confident that there will be sufficient bilingual personnel available to provide services in both official languages.
[Translation]
Senator Robichaud: First of all, I would like to apologize for arriving late.
Mr. Merrithew, you mentioned that with respect to your agreements, the provinces and territories have never asked to what extent bilingual services are needed. I am mainly referring to New Brunswick.
[English]
Mr. Merrithew: I would like to qualify my response. It was with respect to the recruiting amounts being requested. Senator Murray asked whether, when the provinces consider the number of individuals who contribute to the overall need of the RCMP, they place any linguistic requirement on that. That was the response I gave to Senator Murray.
[Translation]
Senator Robichaud: Does your agreement with New Brunswick specify that a certain number of RCMP officers must be bilingual?
[English]
Mr. Merrithew: The agreement itself does not specify linguistic requirements. It is worked out through consultation. As a federal agency, we would comply as a federal department with the Official Languages Act. New Brunswick is an officially bilingual province and, as such, their need has been documented. As an organization, we have met all of the requirements of the Official Languages Act to the satisfaction of the Government of New Brunswick.
[Translation]
Senator Robichaud: Are all RCMP detachments along the Trans-Canada Highway in New Brunswick bilingual?
[English]
Mr. Merrithew: No, not all are designated bilingual. That does not mean that they do not have bilingual capacity; it means simply that they have not been designated as such.
[Translation]
Senator Robichaud: How can you provide quality services in both languages in a province that has official bilingual status if you only have designated bilingual detachments in some areas? We are talking about the Trans-Canada Highway here, but this is not the only highway. Highway 11 runs along the east coast of New Brunswick. How can you provide quality services in both official languages to New Brunswick residents if you are not able to provide services in both languages in some areas?
I am not complaining about RCMP services. The RCMP provides very good services. However, bilingual services are not available in some areas.
[English]
Mr. Merrithew: Within the division we have used every means possible to ensure that we have adequate resources to meet the demands of the general public.
Senator Murray: How many detachments are there in New Brunswick along the Trans-Canada Highway?
Mr. Merrithew: There are 18 detachments.
Senator Murray: Do all of them have policing responsibilities on the highway?
Mr. Merrithew: Yes.
Senator Murray: All of them have bilingual capacity, but not all of them are designated bilingual.
Mr. Merrithew: That is correct.
[Translation]
Senator Robichaud: You say that the detachments have a bilingual capacity. If I am driving along the highway, will the police officer who stops me for speeding be a bilingual officer each time?
I am not talking about office-based services. I am talking about services provided along the Trans-Canada Highway.
Louise Morel, Chief Superintendent, Director General, Employee and Management Relations, Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP): Of the 18 detachments along the Trans-Canada Highway in New Brunswick, 14 are designated bilingual by the Official Languages Act. These areas are designated as such as a result of public demand and in compliance with the Act and the Regulations.
Now, does this mean that you will always encounter a bilingual police officer? No. But, one is available nearby if you wish to communicate in French. Does this answer your question?
Senator Robichaud: Yes, but in my view, this does not represent adequate service.
If I am stopped for speeding, therefore, I have to make my way to a specific area. And if I have to wait half an hour or an hour to speak to a police officer in French, my mood is likely to change and I will not be very satisfied with the services provided. Do you understand my point of view?
New Brunswick is a bilingual province. You will come across Francophones all over the province. Francophones from the Peninsula or from Kent County travel to work to Saint John, Fredericton and even to Moncton.
If this matter is not addressed in your contracts, how do you evaluate the way in which you provide adequate services to the bilingual population of New Brunswick?
Ms. Morel: It is fair to say that less than 100 per cent of New Brunswick residents are bilingual. However, 100 per cent of New Brunswick RCMP personnel should be bilingual in order to provide immediate bilingual services. In reality, 18 per cent of RCMP personnel are bilingual; this percentage is representative of levels of bilingualism in Canada.
If we were to transfer all our bilingual personnel to New Brunswick, we would find it difficult to provide bilingual services in other regions where bilingual personnel are needed. That is the reality.
Ideally, should all of Canada be bilingual? Yes. Should all RCMP personnel be bilingual? Ideally, yes. However, that is an unrealistic expectation.
Senator Robichaud: I know that we are always striving for the ideal situation. Even so, we try to do our best.
You mention that under the circumstances, perhaps you should take bilingual personnel from other provinces. Is this what will happen when you provide bilingual services in the Vancouver region for the Olympic Games? So, you will need to transfer all bilingual personnel to Vancouver at the expense of other regions that will be left to suffer the consequences?
Ms. Morel: The fact remains that we will need to limit our bilingual capacity across Canada to provide services at the Olympic Games. However, we will leave as many officers as possible in our detachments to serve the public, as this is our responsibility. Instead of having two bilingual officers working the same shift in the detachment, it is most likely that we will have only one bilingual officer on duty during the Olympic Games.
Senator Robichaud: So, you are ensuring that efforts are being made to have more people who can speak both official languages?
Ms. Morel: In recent years, the RCMP has increased its bilingual capacity by 7 per cent. We are constantly providing language training. However, after persons complete their second language training, it is difficult for them to maintain their language skills when they are sent to an area in British Columbia where no one speaks French.
When these persons are transferred to the detachment, they have a bilingual rating. However, a year or 18 months later, these persons lose their language skills and are required to undergo further training because they do not have the opportunity to practise and speak French or to maintain their French language skills.
Senator Robichaud: You could send them to New Brunswick for a while. Then they would have plenty of opportunities to practise speaking French.
[English]
Senator Murray: Will you explain about the francophone contingent following that?
Ms. George: Yes.
[Translation]
Senator Tardif: You mentioned that you establish the level of policing services in consultation with each jurisdiction of the provinces and municipalities, in accordance with the terms and conditions of the police service agreements with the contracting jurisdiction. As a Government Agency, how do you reconcile your official languages responsibilities with provincial requirements?
You mentioned that the provinces have not made any requests for a particular number of bilingual recruits. As part of providing leadership in promoting linguistic duality in Canada, and advancing your official languages plan, why would you not identify for the provinces and municipalities with which you consult and enter into contracts the desired number of bilingual personnel? In other words, why not add a language clause to your contracts with these parties? Has any consideration been given to this?
[English]
Mr. Merrithew: We are a federal agency and so the federal Official Languages Act applies to our organization, which we have communicated to the various provincial, territorial and municipal jurisdictions. The act has been applied, and they have accepted that level of bilingual service.
[Translation]
Senator Tardif: Has Alberta, for example, ever asked you to provide services in French? Could you not say to the Province of Alberta that, as a federal institution subject to the Official Languages Act, you want to ensure that 10 per cent of RCMP recruits are bilingual in the province?
[English]
Ms. George: Our bilingual capacity to serve the public varies from a high of 91 per cent in the central region — Ontario and Quebec — to a low of 71 per cent in the northwest region. However, we do adhere to the language laws in that region. In the Atlantic region, we have a bilingual capacity of 86 per cent. The Pacific region has a bilingual capacity of 74 per cent.
There is a variance across the country, but the RCMP is a federal agency. We do adhere to the Official Languages Act, which is separate from the police service agreements, because we do undertake all of our federal statutes in that regard. Does that answer your question?
[Translation]
Senator Tardif: Not really. As Senator Robichaud mentioned in the case of New Brunswick, if I demand a bilingual service in Alberta, what are the chances of actually finding a bilingual police officer?
[English]
Ms. George: You would have a very good chance. I can give you some numbers and maybe that will help.
In the central region we have 2,445 incumbents out of 2,696 bilingual positions.
Senator Murray: What is the central region?
Ms. George: The central region encompasses Ontario and Quebec, basically A Division and C Division, which are at Ottawa headquarters.
Senator Murray: What about Alberta?
Ms. George: In the northwest region, we have 161 incumbents out of 226 bilingual positions currently working.
Senator Murray: What area does the northwest region encompass?
Ms. George: It encompasses Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. The Pacific region encompasses all of British Columbia and the Whitehorse area and environs. The Atlantic region includes all of the Atlantic provinces: New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland and Labrador.
[Translation]
Senator Tardif: My question concerned your leadership role across the provinces when you enter into a contract with other jurisdictions. I am under the impression that you are more concerned with the demand than with actually having a plan or displaying leadership in terms of responsibilities for compliance the Official Languages Act.
Ms. Morel: It is the government and not the RCMP that takes part in negotiations with the provincial governments.
Senator Tardif: Which government are you referring to in this case?
Gilbert Groulx, Senior Counsel, Legal Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP): In accordance with the RCMP Act, the Governor-in-Council approves the police service agreements that are negotiated by the Minister of Public Security.
Senator Tardif: So, the agreements with the provinces are negotiated with the Minister of Public Security?
Mr. Groulx: The RCMP is the agency that provides the services, but it does not negotiate the agreements.
Senator Tardif: Thank you, that answers my question.
Senator Robichaud: When you say that it is the minister, the RCMP is, however, present during the negotiations. Correct? Does the minister rely on you to provide all the available information? The minister merely signs the agreement on behalf of the government, whereas the RCMP is present throughout all the negotiation stages. Is that correct?
[English]
Mr. Merrithew: You are absolutely correct. We are a participant in the entire process. With respect to the signatories of the agreement, the minister is responsible for that.
In 1992 and during our last renegotiation of the agreement, a team led by the ministry negotiated on behalf of the federal government, obviously as a service provider. We possess much of the information that is relevant during those types of discussions. We certainly play an active role to both the federal negotiating team as well as the provincial/ territorial negotiating team. Without a doubt, we play a key role in that entire process.
[Translation]
Senator Robichaud: I would like to talk about recruitment again. You were talking to Senator Murray earlier about conditions and requirements. In the past, if someone wanted to become a RCMP officer, that person had to be of a certain height and build. I am sure that this changed quite some time ago, and certainly for the better. But that is not my question.
Are you making any special efforts in regions where you are more likely to recruit people who are already bilingual? There is all of Eastern Ontario, Eastern Quebec, Montreal, New Brunswick and some regions in Nova Scotia where there are many bilingual anglophones and francophones.
[English]
Ms. George: We certainly do. As I have said before, we have redoubled our efforts in those areas where the RCMP is not necessarily visible as the municipal or provincial police. We also expect to have the greater portion of our bilingual cadets coming from those regions in Canada that have a bilingual population. That would include New Brunswick and cities like Montreal and Quebec City and all throughout Quebec.
I think most people were impressed by the numbers I mentioned that we are looking to recruit for this year and next. We certainly have increased all our efforts throughout the areas in Canada from where we can expect to draw in a greater number of bilingual cadets.
[Translation]
Senator Champagne: Going back to what was said at the beginning: the RCMP prides itself, with reason, on being a first-class organization 99.9 per cent of the time. Everybody agrees.
To maintain this kind of quality, we need very high calibre recruits. Young, unilingual Francophone recruits must take 11 weeks of intensive English language training before returning to Regina to become RCMP officers. As for young unilingual anglophones, on the other hand, they are told that courses are available if one day they decide that they want to learn French and gain the benefits from this.
We then wonder why there are not enough bilingual personnel in regions where we need them the most, whether in New Brunswick or elsewhere. If you want to be a good RCMP officer, you must speak English. Otherwise, it just will not work.
Surely there must be a plan; Senator Murray talked about it earlier on. There must be a plan in mind for the Olympic Games scheduled to take place in Vancouver and Whistler in 2010. Being bilingual has to mean more than just a bilingual bonus, it must become a necessity, reflecting pride in being a member of the RCMP. Being a member of the RCMP does not necessarily mean being anglophone. It must go further than that.
Ms. Morel: I think that your question was not understood properly at the outset because we do provide language training to anglophone cadets who want language training before going to Regina.
In 1988 or 1989, I was responsible for anglophone recruits brought to Montreal for French language training. We did this so that they could stay with francophone families before going to Regina. This provision is still included in their contract. Over the last two years, we have established a new initiative with recruits who are entirely francophone and an agreement with the University of Saskatchewan.
However, the initiative that called for providing anglophone cadets with French training and for sending them to Regina to train in French, was in place when I arrived at the RCMP.
Senator Champagne: I am delighted that this exists, but that is not what I had understood from your earlier response.
The Chair: I would like to wrap up with a brief comment. What struck me during today's exchanges is that we are proud of the RCMP, our traditional symbol and ambassador for Canada. We are also proud of our country. Canada has two official languages and Canadians are also proud of these two official languages. According to a recent survey, 90 per cent of Canadians are happy and proud that Canada stands apart from other countries in this respect.
I believe that in 2007 we should all think about modernizing certain regulations, including RCMP regulations concerning the Trans-Canada Highway. We should not spend any more time thinking about designated detachments or sections. Instead, we should focus on tourism and the travelling public who come here to visit.
There must be a much easier way of providing services coast to coast in English and French along the Trans-Canada Highway.
Thank you for your past efforts and your continuing efforts, and for having taken the time to come and discuss this matter with us.
The committee continued in camera.