Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 16 - Evidence, May 28, 2007
OTTAWA, Monday, May 28, 2007
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day at 4 p.m. to study and report on the state of francophone culture in Canada, particularly in francophone minority communities.
Senator Maria Chaput (Chairman) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Honourable senators, welcome to this meeting of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages held this day, May 28, 2007.
I am Maria Chaput, Chairman of the committee. I come from Manitoba. First of all, I would like to introduce to you the senators who are here today.
To my left, Senator Gerald Comeau from Nova Scotia. To my right, Senator Claudette Tardif from Alberta.
Today we will be hearing our first witnesses as part of our new study on francophone culture. The purpose of the study is to prepare a complete and objective picture of the state of francophone culture in Canada, particularly in the francophone minority communities. The committee will identify the crucial points where the most pressing needs are being felt, by carefully examining various aspects pertaining to culture.
Today we welcome Mr. Roger Ouellette, President of the Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada, and Mr. Serge Paquin, Secretary General; Mr. Benoit Henry, Executive Director, Alliance nationale de l'industrie musicale, Mr. François Dubé, Secretary Treasury, and Mr. François Carrier, member of the board of the Association des professionnels de la chanson et de la musique de l'Ontario.
Benoit Henry, Executive Director, Alliance nationale de l'industrie musicale: I regret to say he is not present.
The Chairman: From the Association de la presse francophone, we welcome Mr. Francis Potié, Director General. Welcome, sir.
Each organization will have five to 10 minutes to make its presentation, after which we will move on to a period of questions with the senators. Without further delay, I turn the floor over to you.
Roger Ouellette, President, Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada: Madam Chairman, we thank you for inviting the Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada to appear before you. The Alliance has 30 active members, including 21 on-air stations spread over all Canadian provinces except Quebec, which has its own association. We also have members in the Canadian North.
The community radio stations play an important role in their communities across the country. We have observed a transformation in the communities where community radio stations have sprung up, including a marked increase in recordings of discs by emerging French Canadian artists, growth in concert ticket sales and increased citizen participation. Community radio stations thus have a significant impact in their community.
ARC du Canada recently conducted a survey of its minority listeners and noted some comments in particular. One person stated that a community radio station in a minority community is a statement and confirmation of the existence of the francophone community. Another person asserted that community radio encourages people to keep the French language alive, particularly in a minority setting. A third person said that radio exposes us to a broad range of music that we would otherwise not hear.
I like this last comment. Indeed, without the community radio stations, a segment of our artists would remain unknown. The majority media, as a result of their concentration, make it so that Canadian diversity is limited. This statement is therefore very important.
The community radio stations are radio stations of proximity, which encourage people to participate. The ratings of our radio stations in minority communities show that these media are of major importance for the communities.
During the public radio strike a few years ago, a number of communities found themselves deprived of information in French. That tells you to what extent the community radio stations, despite their poor resources, play a leadership role in their communities.
As a result of their mandates, community radio stations foster partnerships with the organizations working for the greater well-being of the population. I could cite you numerous examples in this regard. We have conducted many fund-raising drives, sometimes through radio marathons, to help the most disadvantaged people in the communities. Whether it be shelters for battered women or other community groups, the radio stations are always there to help the organizations make themselves heard and raise funds for the welfare of the communities. Their work is thus entirely relevant.
As I mentioned earlier, the minority media, whether radio or newspapers, are always there to ensure that cultural events are reported to the community. In so doing, they promote artists, galas and important activities, and play a cultural development role.
Certain community radio stations are in difficulty across the country. Radio stations may have roughly 20 permanent employees, some 100 volunteers and turnover of $2 million a year. However, community radio stations barely have one employee, and there are fewer and fewer volunteers. So there is an alarm signal here.
The situation is developing, new radio stations will hit the airwaves this year, and projects are emerging. However, the situation is precarious. At any time, radio stations may have to close for lack of resources. It is not true that radio stations can finance themselves solely from advertising. They need other sources of funding besides bingo. Sooner or later, this government and this Parliament will have to look into the matter and, as in other countries, establish a genuine policy on community radio, together with adequate funding. Unfortunately, that is not the case at this time.
One revenue source is advertising. Government advertising is important. As you know, the 2004 moratorium following the sponsorship scandal hurt community radio stations very badly. It deprived our radio stations of scarce and significant resources, which had a negative impact.
At one time, our radio stations received approximately $250,000 in government advertising. Following the moratorium, that figure fell to $85,000. That advertising is beginning to come back, but the impact on our stations was significant.
Consequently, our community radio stations need resources. There is an urgent need to reinforce the capabilities of community radio stations and weekly newspapers. That need includes not only the upgrading of financial resources, but also the professionalizing of journalists, hosts, managers and media craftspeople.
In response to this problem, ARC du Canada has taken steps to establish a Canadian community radio fund. We are working together with ARC du Québec and with the National Campus and Community Radio Association (NCRA).
We are a coalition, and this is the first time in Canada that all the associations operating in the English-language and French-language community radio sector have decided to work together.
Last year, we had the opportunity to make submissions to the CRTC and, more recently, to the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. We will also have occasion to meet with the new president of the CRTC and his team this week.
It is thus a priority for us to establish this fund, which will be financed through revenue from the private sector. If you have been following recent events, you have no doubt seen that commercial radio in Canada is doing very well and achieving profit margins of approximately $1 billion. We would like to have a few crumbs along the way. We would also like the Canadian government to develop an adequate policy and funding, particularly for the hundreds of thousands of volunteers who work at our radio stations. They also make a financial contribution, if we had to calculate it.
Our communities are doing an enormous job of establishing radio stations and keeping their radio stations. We hope the Canadian government will do its share so that those stations do not become moribund, but rather dynamic radio stations that can continue doing their remarkable work and contributing to Canadian diversity.
On page 15 of our brief, we talk about partners in developing the francophone area in Canada. The community radio stations are much more than mere media outlets; they are front-line players in the development of original Canadian content; they are the information link to the image of the francophone and Acadian communities, the reflection of their communities; they are the builders of the ability to live in French through innovative and inclusive achievements. A community that does not hear about itself or read about itself in its media is a community that does not have the feeling of existing. The presence of newspapers in the community sends a strong signal.
In conclusion, I would like to tell you about the sensitive role of communications in the communities served. ARC du Canada denounces the great vulnerability of the sector as a whole. The present situation of community radio stations and the recent undermining of ARC du Canada are very disturbing, in the Atlantic region and New Brunswick, as well as in Ontario, the West and in the Territories.
A number of radio stations are facing major difficulties that threaten their very existence. Other stations are barely covering their costs and are utterly dependent on other provincial francophone associations, a situation that undermines their ability to focus entirely on their mandate and to fully play their development role in the communities they serve.
Benoit Henry, Executive Director, Alliance nationale de l'industrie musicale: Madam Chairman, to begin with, we would like to introduce our association, ANIM, then provide you with a general observation and present three major challenges in the song and music sector for the Acadian and francophone communities, as well as some potential solutions.
ANIM is an association based first and foremost on three regional organizations: the artistic organization, which is the AAPNB, the Association des artistes acadiens professionnels du Nouveau-Brunswick, the Association des professionnels de la chanson et de la musique de l'Ontario, and the Regroupement de l'industrie musicale de l'Ouest.
ANIM consists of members who are producers, like François who is here with me, managers of artists and broadcasters, in short industry representatives.
The first thing that binds us all together in the Acadian and francophone communities across the country is of course this language, which is a cultural project. It is a project of identity and citizenship. First, I would like to express regret over this first Action Plan for Official Languages, which was developed at the time by Stéphane Dion, and which included only one axis on arts and culture.
We were very pleased to see our communities working with the minister for health services in French and legal services in French, but the lack of an arts and culture axis is regrettable. We hope the situation will be corrected since what binds us official language communities together across the country is precisely the ability to share culture and this identity project.
Now I will turn the floor over to François Dubé, who will present one of the major challenges facing us for the song and music sector.
François Dubé, Secretary Treasurer, Alliance nationale de l'industrie musicale: Madam Chairman, I am a member producer of ADISQ. A few weeks ago, we attended various conferences and workshops in the context of ADISQ meetings in Montreal. One of the current major challenges is switching to the digital era. They presented various documents to us, saying that the CD-Rom is on its way out and digital on its way up. This is a paradigm shift because we have to think differently. At that event, it was mentioned that artists will have to adapt to this state of affairs, as will managers, producers and all teams, who will have to change the way they operate.
This will require an investment of new funds because this is another way of thinking, and training will have to be provided to help the teams that surround and support artists in order to make this change on the Web. Everyone now has an iPod or a cellular telephone or a BlackBerry, and music will be downloaded to those devices. If we want to stay in the forefront, it is important to provide financial support for all these new technologies.
Mr. Henry: It must be understood that the digital revolution affects all sectors of the industry, from production to distribution. Music distribution methods have completely changed. Right now in Canada, and internationally, declining revenues from the sale of physical sound recordings have not been replaced by what is called an increase in the sale of digital products. So we are currently in a period of great change in the industry. In Canada, there have been considerable revenue losses for all industry players.
Another very significant challenge in this new framework is broadcasting. Never has it been so important to enable artists to appear on stage, because, in this new economy, revenue from the sale of sound recordings is tending to decline sharply. We can observe this phenomenon not only at concerts, but in all areas pertaining to broadcasting. We can only firmly support the requests and demands of ARC du Canada because it is clear that, for us, this presence in our communities would not be possible without the action of the community radio stations across the country.
As regards the creative artist, our communities are incredibly vital; we need only think of RADIO RADIO in Nova Scotia with Jacobus and Maleco. That radio station produces Hip-Hop based on an Acadian tradition. I am also thinking of Mathieu D'Astous, in New Brunswick, who draws on African rhythms.
In Manitoba, I am thinking of the daughters of Madrigaia, who are reinventing the genre, of the Saint-Pierres, the next generation in British Columbia, of the Amélie Lefebvres in Ontario. In short, as regards the creative artist, our communities are incredibly vital, but those creative artists are threatened because they need resources and an infrastructure in order to reach their own markets and all other open and available markets.
In French Canada, the infrastructure of the music industry is very poor. There is a need for investment and support for human infrastructure, that is to say managers and producers. We have had recent proof of that with shows such as Ode à l'Acadie. Thanks to the ad hoc support of the 400th anniversary of Acadia, there has been a major investment in artistic production, which is now appearing nationally and internationally. Given the means, we can present a product that is successful nationally and internationally.
We have tools from the Canadian government that are designed to support the cultural industries, but they are essentially based on economic return. In the industry, we do not have any entrepreneurs who generate economic returns that qualify them, for example, for the Fêtes de la musique Canada in the musical entrepreneurs category.
We also have a major institution, Musique Action, which funds production and marketing. To access it, you have to have a manager, which we do not have. We have the Canada Council for the Arts, which, for all kinds of reasons, is trying not to do what Musique Action does and which, in terms of investment for the Acadian and francophone communities, represents less than two per cent of the music section.
As a result, we absolutely need a fund to support the sector's adjustment to the digital revolution, and that must apply to the sector as a whole. That fund should definitely be dedicated because the experience of recent years has shown us that even though there has been an increase in public funding for our sector, we are now at a crossroads where, if there is no significant investment, this beautiful wealth of diversity of French Canadian and Acadian cultural expression through music and song will be threatened.
Francis Potié, Director General, Association de la presse francophone: Madam Chairman, thank you for inviting us to testify before the committee. On the eve of the summit of francophone and Acadian communities, we fully acknowledge the relevance and importance of your subject of study, which is the state of minority francophone culture. It is a very broad subject, and we have chosen to focus our remarks on the issue of the role and place of the media in that culture.
The Association de la presse francophone represents community newspapers published in French in all the provinces and territories of Canada, with the exception of Nunavut; the paper L'aquilon serves Nunavut with editorial and distribution work; so we are everywhere.
Our papers have been established for nearly 100 years, in some cases, but much more recently, five or six years, in others. We are diversified. We have papers that are non-profit organizations, papers belonging to private interests and others belonging to vast media chains, press, television, radio and newspaper conglomerates. In all cases, however, these papers serve as witnesses to the culture of francophones in their communities. They have many roles and, in some instances, a single role. In a number of communities, our paper, or more recently, the community radio stations, are unique media that represent and take a constant interest in this francophone culture. We are concerned with that, we cover it, we talk about it and we reflect it.
One of the major issues for francophones is managing to live in French in all possible aspects of life. This means being able to consume culture in French, having consumer products available in French; it also means producing them. We have to have the resources to offer that to a receptive public and to reach that public. This challenge of the cultural world is also the challenge of the newspapers and community media. We are participants in our communities. We are the reflection of their issues in editorial content, and we also rely on the presence of a francophone market. The existence of a vibrant, dynamic and living francophone community in a market is directly apparent in the paper that serves it, and that has an impact on the paper's vitality.
It is hard to conceive how a francophone community that does not have its own paper can be as healthy from a cultural standpoint as a community whose paper is dynamic and relevant in the way it carries out its mandate in relation to that community. The papers themselves are facing significant challenges in fully achieving success, and those challenges are of two types. Some are related to the press industry itself, and others to the fact of publishing in a minority setting.
In the former case, we are all experiencing major technological changes. That can be called the Internet revolution. For community papers, as for all media, it is not immediately obvious how to develop a winning Internet strategy.
We are starting to observe interesting ways of attacking the Internet in other media that require financial and human resources that are often lacking in our papers, community papers or community media. To a certain point, we must stop seeing ourselves as a community paper that prints and start viewing ourselves as a community medium that serves the community both through print and on the Internet. This is a major cultural change that we are going through, and if we do not make it, someone else will do it in our stead.
Another major challenge for our papers is that we are always dependent on our minority situation. We have major challenges in the areas of staff turnover, staff retention, the ability to pay competitive wages, the ability to grow our market, the ability to sell advertising and to attract new readers. These are challenges facing all papers, not just minority francophone papers, but these challenges are accentuated in our communities by the fact that our populations are relatively small and scattered and have access to a range of other media in the majority language.
These are constant challenges. Our papers show considerable imagination in finding ways to get by. We engage in partnerships with community groups, schools and school newspapers to increase our reach. Papers of all kinds have commercial strategies. We are making major efforts to reach young people, hence the entire issue of the Internet. We know that young people these days consume their information much more through the Internet than traditional means, and we have to deal with that reality.
I am going to talk briefly about the issues of the Association de la presse francophone. In the past 30 years, we have tried to create an environment to support our newspapers so that they can grow and move forward in what is nevertheless a quite difficult environment. Recently, we have approached the Publications Assistance Program when we felt threatened.
We are now working with the Alliance des radios communautaires, the Quebec Community Newspaper Association and others to create a program of ongoing research on the readership and audiences of minority media, which we hope will provide sales tools and a better understanding of our impact on the public.
We are also working with other minority media associations, with the Department of Public Works and Government Services Canada to ensure that the media appearing on the list of media eligible to receive federal advertising are indeed media that serve communities, and that they are credible, professional and integrated.
We have also worked with ARC du Canada in the provinces and territories of Canada to encourage them to adopt French-language media advertising policies with the francophone media, and we hope to be very active with youth in order to ensure a succession of media professionals and a succession of French-language information consumer. This is a challenge for everyone, and I believe that the Internet is central to that plan.
One of our recent projects concerns the Canada Magazine Fund. This is an extensive program of support for Canadian publishing that focuses on enabling the magazine industry to face ferocious international competition. We have come to the conclusion that, as a result of the fact that we operate in markets that do not support a large French-language magazine industry outside Quebec, francophone communities are excluded from these programs. We should consider ways to ensure these programs support community media and newspapers so that they can offer, provide more coverage of, among other things and in large part, culture, artists and cultural events. This is omnipresent in our communities, and I think this is part of our mandate.
Senator Comeau: Thank you very much. We are very pleased that you have come to share your thoughts with us. Mr. Ouellette, you said in your conclusion:
Indeed, the current situation of community radio stations and the recent weakening of ARC du Canada are very disturbing, both in the Atlantic and in New Brunswick.
Why in the Atlantic and New Brunswick?
Mr. Ouellette: It is in the Atlantic, New Brunswick and across the country. Why in the Atlantic and New Brunswick? In ARC du Canada's organization, we have regions, and thus regional councils. We have a council for the province of New Brunswick and one for the Atlantic region, which includes Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland.
Senator Comeau: These are two different councils?
Mr. Ouellette: Yes. There is also a council for Ontario, and another one for the West and the Territories. That is the explanation.
Senator Comeau: So there is an Atlantic council and a New Brunswick council.
My second question may be a question for everyone. Here we are mainly talking about a francophone culture. In a multicultural country, is there a francophone culture as such, or is it not more a diversity of cultures? We have francophone African culture, francophone Acadian culture, Caribbean culture; What is today's francophone culture? Is it Quebec culture? We are going to be asked the question: what is francophone culture?
Mr. Henry: In everything you said, I believe that, above all, there is a common language. That is the basis. We must not be afraid. I believe that the principle of two official languages has been established in Canada, and, within that major principle, what we are seeking is as much diversity in francophone culture as there can be in anglophone culture. Artists express it very well. I wanted to note it earlier, and I could point to the artists of Ontario with the Hip-hops, people who come from Africa and virtually everywhere. These are collaborative efforts; artists from elsewhere are definitely the first ones to present to Canadians this wealth of diversity and this example of tolerance as well, because artists collaborate amongst themselves to an enormous degree and reflect diversity.
Senator Comeau: So there are a number of cultures that have the French language as a common link. We should encourage all cultures to express themselves through the arts, music, song and so on. I just wanted to establish that at the outset because I was recently asked the question. We are examining francophone culture, and I wanted to make sure we had a number of cultures with a common language.
Mr. Henry: I would say instead that it is a diversified francophone culture.
Senator Comeau: That suits me.
Mr. Ouellette: I would add the term "mix." Acadie today has this mix with Africa, but Acadie has mixed with Ireland; the Irish-Acadian mix is very important. You can go to Cape Breton and see how this mix has come about in music. This mix occurred in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries; it is still occurring today because other encounters are occurring, and encounters encourage mixing — for the better, in my view.
Senator Comeau: Mr. Ouellette, I believe you have a very important message to send. I remember the community that I come from. When I was young, music was the music of the United States, which we called western music, because there was not any francophone music in Nova Scotia, apart from the old songs from the seventeenth century. So the music we listened to was music from Nashville. Then, with the advent of community radio, we were exposed to francophone music, and we thought that would not work. People said it was the music of Quebecers. Ultimately, it worked very well. It was not just the music of Quebecers; it was the music of New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island and various regions of Nova Scotia. It was a very big surprise for the entire population of Baie Sainte-Marie, where I come from, that francophone music was very well accepted. If you go into the households in Baie Sainte-Marie today, radios are tuned in to CIFA, 104.1 FM.
I think your story is the same as those of the other francophone regions. It is a fantastic story to offer the public.
Mr. Ouellette: It is a very beautiful story, and we would like to be able to write many more pages of it. It is a developing story. You are entirely right: all communities have benefited from the introduction of community radio for cultural enrichment. I am originally from Madawaska, and, when I was young, we listened to Quebec radio and radio from the United States. We had Maine on one side and the St. John River on the other.
In southwestern New Brunswick, you had Radio-Canada for many years, of course, but people did not recognize themselves in that accent, in that programming, and I believe that is still the case, as a result of which they listen to English-language radio.
When we started up CJSE, in the context of the World Acadian Congress in 1994, a number of people wondered whether people would listen to that radio station since they had been listening to English-language radio for a long time. They singled out the people from the southeast and said that they had been assimilated, that they were the weak link of the Acadians. And ultimately, no, they were given the opportunity to have a radio station that was a reflection of them, and they saw themselves reflected in that radio. It is a major success, so much so that, three years ago, the CRTC, in a Canadian first, issued a second community licence for the region of greater Moncton and southeastern New Brunswick. It was a Canadian first in the sense that CJSE has a licence, and the same board of directors received a second community licence to introduce another community radio station because there was a need for diversity.
I could say the same thing about all the communities; in Alberta, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, the Canadian High North and across Canada, the presence of community radio stations is a sign of vitality and diversity of the Canadian radio landscape. The message I am sending is that we have to be able to help these communities keep and develop their radio stations in order to continue enriching the Canadian radio landscape.
Imagine for a moment if there were no community radio tomorrow morning, what would happen in a lot of those communities? They would switch to English-language radio, and voilà!
Senator Comeau: Messrs. Henry and Dubé will no doubt find it interesting to know that not only did we have the music of Wheeling West Virginia at that time, but we did not have local artists who sang in French. And since then, we have had groups like Grand Dérangement and people like Patrice Boulianne, a Manitoba native.
Mr. Ouellette: There is also Ronald Bourgeois, with whom I have worked, by the way.
Senator Comeau: All those artists who, after realizing that people liked French music, became well-known artists.
Mr. Dubé: We can also think of Ontario, with Damien Robitaille right now. We had Robert Paquette, in the 1970s, who is very active in ANIM. Damien Robitaille was at Club Soda in Montreal on April 18, for his big launch, his official arrival in Montreal. The place was full; they were turning people away at the door. In the room, there were popular artists like Kevin Parent who had come to see the phenomenon. I can tell you that the 500, 600 young people there knew all the words to his songs, like Porc-Épic, among others.
This comes at a good time because, in addition to being Secretary Treasury of ANIM, I am also a pianist and musical director. I have done the Granby Festival, among others. I am very much involved in song and music. That is my hobby.
I am going to do the musical direction on Chant'Ouest. I also do training. Last year, I did the Manitoba gala, with Chant'Ouest, which was in Winnipeg. I did Pacifique en chansons on April 27. I am in the field, and I see this minority francophone vitality. What is going on is incredible. I sense a kind of wave — like there was in Quebec with Vigneault and others — but now it is in the West, in the Maritimes. I have had the opportunity to have contacts in Alberta, and the talent of the artists is incredible.
As I said earlier, we have gone digital. I believe we will have to go through this phase and that the government will have to focus on this technology in order to help artists take this step. The vitality of the artists of the Canadian francophone community is absolutely extraordinary.
Senator Comeau: If you were the assistant deputy minister assigned to prepare a new policy to meet the needs of each of your sectors, what would that new policy be? You do not have to answer today, but perhaps you could send us that new policy in the coming weeks.
Since we do not have a policy at this time, and we need one, perhaps you could make us a proposal that could help us, since we need to do it.
Mr. Henry: Canada wants to be internationally competitive, that is to say that it wants Canadian culture — and we are thinking of the music industry as well — to be competitive with the U.S. giants.
Today, things tend to change. We obviously still have a few major players, but Canada is continuing to invest, and it is mostly investing in a few major businesses. Those major businesses are precisely in the process of reviewing how they operate.
I would invite the deputy minister to adopt some quick adjustment tools and mechanisms, because, in the digital revolution world, the big problem we face is very often that the challenges appear on the table, but programs only change every five years. And in the challenge we face from day to day, there is this aspect as well as that of diversity. The Acadian and francophone communities claim to represent this diversity of French Canadian artistic expression. Canada has made itself the champion of international cultural diversity; it must now find ways to apply it at the national level and support that diversity.
Senator Tardif: First, I want to thank you for your excellent presentation and your commitment to our minority francophone communities.
You mentioned the issue of government advertising a number of times. Do you receive your share of that advertising in your media, whether it be offers of employment or services? If I understand correctly, this is a significant share of your revenue. When there is a shortfall, when there is no advertising — there is obviously a shortage of income. Are you receiving your share from the federal government?
Serge Paquin, Secretary General, Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada: In June of last year, the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages passed a motion that 5.4 per cent — which represents roughly the percentage of the minority communities — would be directed to minority community media.
One year later, we received a letter from the Minister of Public Works stating that implementing that motion was a complicated matter, that we were already receiving an appreciably equivalent portion. In short, this has been a challenge for the radio stations. Perhaps it was less so for the newspapers; I will let Mr. Potié speak to that subject, because, under the act, the government is required to announce notices in the print sector. In the case of the radio stations, we maintained the figures in our brief: $85,000 for 21 radio stations is not an enormous amount. The figures have tended to rise slightly after the moratorium.
We are currently working with Service Canada. In January, they published a report in which they said they wanted to reach all Canadians and to focus on the communities in order to inform them of their rights and of the services offered by the government. In order to implement a special project with Service Canada, that department is apparently ready to put money on the table.
We are talking about half a million dollars a year to inform our communities about those services. However, we still have to obtain the consent of the Privy Council, the Treasury Board and Public Works and Government Services Canada. We are talking about positive measures, and that is precisely what we talk about in our document, but they are slow in coming. Fortunately there have been a few initiatives. We are not getting our fair share of federal government advertising. Such an initiative could really help to inform, but also to improve the situation.
We talked about the Canadian Radio Fund. Often, when we request subsidies, the government steps back and says that this era of government subsidies is over. But the money is there and it is intended to inform the population. Will the initiative go forward? We remain very prudent. Even if Service Canada assures us that they are very much in favour of this initiative, we have to get everybody's consent, which is a constant challenge.
This kind of initiative is a positive measure that we support 100 per cent. I hope that officials will hear our message so that we can accelerate implementation of those measures. I hope they move forward because these measures are very concrete. In this area, we still have a great deal of work to do.
The media placement agencies do not know us; they are unaware that we exist. They are content to work with the general sectors. These are very often anglophone agencies. We always have to make demands.
In the past eight years, we have been trying, with considerable difficulty, to get our fair share of government advertising. Last year, the process ended at the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages. Today, we hope that, with Service Canada, the initiative will move forward in the wake of the new regulations under Bill S-3.
Mr. Ouellette: With the tightening of the regulations and procedures, as a result of the sponsorship scandal, it takes nearly 18 months before a department can announce a new project. The file has to be studied at the Privy Council, the Treasury Board, then sent to Public Works and Government Services Canada, then it comes back.
When I appeared before the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages, I mentioned that last year's government advertising budget was approximately $71 million. Of that amount, we had spent only $35 million. So we did not spend all the money.
Amounts are budgeted. However, as a result of bureaucratic red tape, we are not spending the money. I do not know a lot of departments that are not spending the money from these programs. So there is an unease and a problem in that area. Amounts are approved but not spent. After going around in circles for 18 months, the departments ultimately give up.
Accountability, responsibility and transparency are great virtues. However, these measures must not prevent the programs from operating. The Canadian government must not be prevented from ensuring that Canadians are informed about the programs. However, that is precisely what is happening right now. As a result of bureaucratic red tape, Canadians are not being informed about all the programs of the departments and agencies.
Audit is necessary, of course, but how much does it cost to audit everyone a number of times? I can tell you that, in certain departments, people are fed up with audits. Audits are conducted once, twice, three and four times and even more. While officials have to produce all the documentation necessary for the audits, they cannot focus on the programs and, consequently, are not doing their job. In my opinion, things have gone too far. Balance has to be restored.
Mr. Potié: Our situation is different from that of ARC du Canada. I agree with the Alliance des radios communautaires that advertising campaign approval is a very arduous process. The newspapers' revenues have declined. With the election, the change of government and the implementation of the new process, it has taken a certain amount of time for things to return to normal. However, the situation is not what it was four or five years ago — and I am not talking about sponsorships, but about advertising.
We note that the French-language newspapers in general are complying with the provisions of the Official Languages Act. Radio generally brings in less advertising revenue than the newspapers. However, the situation is changing. People are increasingly turning toward the Internet.
I have attended a number of conferences where the newspaper associations such as the Canadian Community Newspaper Association (CCNA) and Hebdos Québec have participated. Statistics show that the Internet is growing 20 per cent a year. That growth is occurring at the expense of radio and newspapers. As community media and partners with the federal government, we must develop and become an adequate and innovative presence on the Internet.
Another deficiency that we have denounced to the Department of Public Works and Government Services is this: the Official Languages Act, which we rigorously defend, enables the government to target a specific language community. However, the departments do not do that, perhaps out of fear of violating the Official Languages Act. An Action Plan on Official Languages has been established. That action plan would do well to make established objectives and programs known to the linguistic minority communities. However, that has not been the case, and we believe there is a deficiency in that area.
We are continuing our work with Public Works and Government Services Canada so that the media receiving advertising can be active and relevant in their community.
Senator Tardif: In November 2005, changes were made to Part VII of the Official Languages Act. You referred to those changes in talking about Bill S-3, which was to require the government to consult the communities and introduce positive measures.
Have you noticed a change in your relationship with the government? Is there greater consultation when a new program is introduced or when changes are made to an existing program? Have you observed any efforts made by the departments with which you deal to introduce positive measures with regard to the work you are doing?
Mr. Paquin: I do not want to echo the last report of the Commissioner of Official Languages. However, I must say that concrete action is slow in coming, and we are looking for it.
Yes, there has been consultation and we have been informed. With Mr. Potié, we have attended at least two or three briefing sessions. We have been prepared for the new act and the new provisions. We heard a number of presentations at the meetings of the FCFA du Canada. Officials from Canadian Heritage also came and outlined the benefits of these new positive measures to us. In concrete terms, however, nothing has happened yet.
When we talk about positive measures, officials step back, saying that they do not know exactly what that is. There is currently no clear definition of the term "positive measures."
Failing that, officials prefer to do nothing. The sponsorship scandal has had a significant impact on the way public servants work. Since then, there have been problems with advertising placements. Government officials are now afraid to do anything. I will give you a concrete example, as trivial as it may seem. One person we know who was employed by the Department of Public Works and Government Services broke a leg in a number of places. We contacted the department to determine the name of the hospital where he was staying in order to send him flowers. They refused to give us that information. Since the scandal, that might perhaps be considered a bribe. That is the situation that officials are experiencing. They do nothing and they especially do not know how to go about their work because they are afraid they will be rapped on the knuckles.
That is a general feeling in the public service. Public servants have no room to manoeuvre. It is total standpattism. They no longer know what a positive measure represents and they are afraid of reprisals. This is paralyzing the public service and the departments. It is overkill. When it takes 18 months to adopt an advertising campaign, I understand why the departments step back. In the name of accountability and transparency, there are three committee levels for approving an advertising campaign. That discourages people.
We are still waiting for those positive measures. To my knowledge, we have been unable to see an illustrative case. Will our project with Service Canada move forward? Many public servants would like that, but many are kept on a short leash because suddenly, in the name of accountability, that could tread on someone's toes or someone might take a wrong step. It is sad to see that we have wonderful legislation, but that it is not in fact enforced.
Senator Tardif: Could you give us a list of positive measures after consulting with your associations or your organization? You could tell the department: "Here are what we consider to be positive measures. We would like your department to be able to set this up."
Mr. Paquin: We have talked about the Canadian Radio Fund, Public Works and Government Services Canada and Service Canada. We have lists of positive measures from our colleagues at the national associations and spokespersons to propose to them. Just for the Canada-community and Canada-national organization agreements, we are requesting an increase of $24 million. That would be a positive measure to assist the communities that are under-funded. We have been receiving the same funding since roughly 1992. There has been no increase for our association. In addition, our main backer, Shaw Communications, is a private, strictly anglophone Calgary company. It will be helping us in August. Our association will be losing $320,000. As for the other part, our associations together with FCCF and FCFA, including several tens of organizations, have been seeking funding for a number of years, but there is no budget. We are served up this speech every time. We have met with officials, the deputy minister of Canadian Heritage and even the assistant to the minister, Ms. Oda. The answer is clear: we do not have any money. We cannot establish anything because they are cutting programs. Is cutting programs a positive measure? I do not think so. That much is clear.
There is a gap between what we can see in the act and what is being put forward in concrete terms. Unfortunately, we are still waiting for concrete actions. We have demands and projects too. We put them forward to officials, but a positive measure is abstract until someone in the government says: "Here are some examples of concrete measures; here is what we are going to contribute to and what we are encouraging the departments to do." They encourage half-heartedly, but there are not yet any clear and specific precedents. You have to start with at least a few examples in order to be able to continue the series of positive measures, but what can we do as long as there is nothing concrete? Does the government deliberately not want to put forward any concrete measures; is it saying that it is leaving that up in the air? Nearly 25 years have elapsed since 1985. It is time we saw some real positive measures.
The Chairman: Mr. Potié, do you have something to add?
Mr. Potié: We have two measures in mind, one that almost saw the light of day, but, with the uncertainty surrounding the Publications Assistance Program, it suddenly disappeared. The Publications Assistance Program has always contended that there should be provisions that are specific to the minority francophone or anglophone press and that reflect the markets in which they operate. Officials were ready to put something in place. They even came to our annual meeting to announce the good news to us. Shortly afterward, we learned that Canada Post Corporation was probably going to withdraw its funding. That has been shelved. That is a minor example. These are not large amounts of funding in our case.
With regard to the Canada Magazine Fund, there is a magazine publishing assistance program that is very good for that industry, but, once again, that is an example of a program introduced for the majority. We have nothing against that. But when we go knocking on the door, we note that, as a result of the reality of our communities, markets and businesses, there is no entryway for us. We should work with the Department of Canadian Heritage to come up with something.
Mr. Henry: I will just take the liberty of expressing a doubt. I do not think I have an answer, but when you refer to Bill S-3 — which is also referred to in the document you submitted — we are talking about arts and culture, but Canadian Heritage is our main contact. In general, when we talk about funding, we are talking about 80 or 90 per cent of the budget. For the Acadian and francophone communities, everything essentially comes from the Department of Canadian Heritage, but, as that department already has two heads, one being official languages and the other arts and culture, you will allow me to doubt.
Senator Tardif: All the departments are responsible, including Canadian Heritage.
Mr. Henry: I do not doubt that.
The Chairman: For example, could a positive measure coming from Canadian Heritage be a national cultural policy that would include a digital adjustment support fund? Would that be a positive measure in your mind? We must try to understand what that means. It has never been defined.
Mr. Henry: Yes, no doubt. The cultural industries and my colleagues of the other artistic platforms, whether it be theatre people, television or film producers, all are facing a problem of access to Canadian Heritage.
The Chairman: Perhaps the government needs you to help it define what a positive measure is. Perhaps it would not be bad to think of that. In that way, when you have your meetings with officials or the departments, you would arrive with a contribution. That is just an idea that came to mind, and that is why I asked you the question.
Mr. Ouellette: We have a positive measure for the Canadian Community Radio Fund. That has been talked about at all levels now for a year already. The minister has unfortunately refused to receive us so that we can talk to him about it. However, we have met the deputy minister and his political assistant. Last year, we talked about it with the Official Languages Committee and the Canadian Heritage Committee. We talked about with to the CRTC. We have been talking about it for more than a year. I hope we will be heard and that we will be on the list.
Mr. Paquin: The example of Service Canada and the single windows is an excellent initiative. As we know, there is already quite a significant budget, and this is a priority for the present government. Where that also becomes a positive measure is that we are going to target a medium and communities and adapt that advertising to a target public and target media. The nearby newspapers and radio stations aim directly at the communities. These citizens must be listened to in their language. We have to be close to them in order to talk to them.
On the Baie Sainte-Marie radio station, CIFA, I asked people: "Why do you not listen to Radio-Canada? You have had a state radio station for years." The answer is simple: "We do not understand what they are saying on the air." How can Radio-Canada speak to a francophone population knowing that that population does not understand the French it uses? If you take the money from Service Canada and give it to the radio stations, but it is Acadians from Baie Sainte-Marie who promote it, they will understand what we are talking about. That is a positive measure. It is to be able to adapt the content to the reality of the communities.
Senator Losier-Cool: First, I apologize for arriving late. I was performing another parliamentary duty replacing the Speaker of the Senate. That said, I would have liked to hear your presentation because I am very pleased that the Senate has given us a mandate to examine the state of francophone culture, particularly in francophone minority communities.
I would also like us to be able to reflect on the fact that culture is not just a matter of money. In other words, if we were very rich, could we say that culture is doing well? Could we have a certain culture?
Coming back to the positive measures that I heard, I imagine you said in your presentations that the first thing you advise our committee is that it recommend that there be a federal policy on culture.
That said, are schools, communities and youth involved in that cultural policy? You mentioned the case of Baie Sainte-Marie, and that may be one of the reasons why we have undertaken to conduct this study because we know how endangered we are. I would like to hear what the members of the community think about culture. Do they believe in a francophone culture? There are young people growing up in a bilingual environment, and it is sometimes difficult for them to identify with it.
Today is our first discussion on this subject, and we are trying to cover the issue as much as possible. I want to hear about something other than the monetary side. If the federal government gave you the billions of dollars you need tomorrow, what would you do?
Mr. Henry: I do not want to over-emphasize this, but Canada stands between the American model, under which the private sector invests to a large degree in arts and culture, and a European model. Great Britain and France invest in arts and culture to a greater degree on a per capita basis. We stand somewhere between the two, and we are poorly served in general. That is why we may possibly give the impression that we are obsessed with money, but we genuinely need money.
That said, in the past two or three years, many initiatives have shown the extent to which the communities want to integrate arts and culture to a greater degree. There was the Education Summit that was held a year or two ago, where all the school boards across the country integrated into their action plans what is called identity building. There are projects across the country. There are some in Ontario in which there is increasingly significant collaboration between the education and arts and culture communities.
The communities are interested in consuming their culture, in getting along with and talking to each other. There is a genuine interest, beyond the financial aspect, in living that culture, in expressing and consuming it.
Mr. Ouellette: I am going to give you an example apart from that of the community radio stations. I am going to wear another hat. I am vice-president of Éditions Perce-Neige, in Moncton, which publishes poetry. The Government of New Brunswick recently established a book policy. That had not existed. It makes all the difference in the world. I was recently speaking with the members of my board of directors and with the Director General. There have been orders for books! The bookstores are buying them, schools are buying them, and public libraries are buying them. In adopting a book policy, the province of New Brunswick did not invest millions and billions of dollars. It set a framework, as a result of which the schools and libraries are now buying books. Our small publishing companies are selling books. They have revenue. This is a very concrete example.
I strongly encourage you to adopt a dynamic and living Canadian cultural policy that will ensure that we have revenue sources, not necessarily as a result of government subsidies, but as a result of a conducive framework and environment. That is what is important. It is not just subsidies.
Subsidies are fragile. Tomorrow morning, if the subsidy is cut, we disappear. However, policies make it so that we have a dynamic environment that becomes self-sufficient. Quebec understood that a long time ago, and it modelled its policy on that of France. In New Brunswick, we did not have a book policy. Consequently, people bought all their books in Quebec. Our publishers and publishing houses in New Brunswick got nothing. Try to sell a book in Quebec if you are not located in Quebec. Good luck! Try to go and sell a book in France if you did not publish it in France. Good luck!
Mr. Potié: Your question is somewhat philosophical. First, culture and communication necessarily go together. The distribution of culture is done through the various existing channels of communication. By the force of our markets and because we are the neighbour of the United States — which is not practical — even with all the money in the world, we will always be in a situation where we occupy little space in the communications world.
We must not delude ourselves: with few exceptions, the people who live in our communities will not consume just francophone culture and francophone communications. We are facing the major challenge of building a francophone area that is interesting, diversified, dynamic and vital enough to at least draw their attention part of the time. If we have CSI and I do not know what other really fashionable program, people will nevertheless watch them.
That is a fact. We cannot say: this community has a newspaper and a radio station, so it is doing fine. If we have Sirius Satellite Radio, we have 150 television stations in English; we do not have the choice; we have to continue developing communications and culture in French.
Senator Losier-Cool: That is because you belong to the world of the print media and communications. The Senate Committee on Transport and Communications conducted a study last year on the media and media control by private interests. You have no doubt read how the New Brunswick News, which is owned by the Irving family, really controls the francophone press.
Mr. Potié: In New Brunswick, yes.
Senator Losier-Cool: That is definitely a challenge for Acadie Presse and Acadie Nouvelle. We see an example in that. I do not want to engage in philosophy at all, but I want you to tell us that our committee was right in undertaking this study on culture in the francophone minority communities. We studied health, education, and we said to ourselves that culture concerned Part VII of the Official Languages Act, which must foster vitality. Perhaps to finish with this line of thinking, I would like to ask you: were we right or are we wasting our time in continuing this study on francophone culture?
Mr. Ouellette: I think you are right, because the Senate is the house where the wisdom in this country is gathered. I hope this government, or perhaps the next government in six months or a year, will have the wisdom to listen to you for once.
Mr. Henry: I also think it was important because, if we want to have strong communities in Canada, outside Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver, we have to give all Canadians, especially francophones across the country, access to this culture because arts and culture help individuals become part of their community, their province and their nation. I think that arts and culture are also a citizenship project. Access to arts and culture, across the country, is important. And there are all kinds of phenomena now in Canada. We talked about the digital revolution earlier. If we do not want to miss the boat and if we want to ensure the greater well-being of all Canadians, there are definitely reasons to take a serious look at the place of arts and culture across the country.
Mr. Dubé: For my part, I would like to say, on behalf of ANIM, that I am very pleased to be here. It warms my heart to have been invited. I am also an artist; I have carried on that occupation for 30 years; as a pianist and musical director, I travel everywhere in Europe, and this is the first time — that excited me by the way — that I have come here, and I am very honoured. Thank you very much, and I do not think you are on the wrong track, on the contrary. I think that you are on the right track in inviting people like the Alliance nationale — I am a member; I am on its board of directors — and stakeholders like the press and community radio stations. I hope this will not be the last time; I would like to come back.
The Chairman: Senator Murray, you have a question?
Senator Murray: Yes, I have several, Madam Chairman.
[English]
Perhaps I should be asking my questions in English since I am the token anglophone on this committee, but I will not.
[Translation]
Mr. Potié, to clarify what you told us about the federal magazine assistance program, you did not mean that francophone magazines are not eligible or do not benefit from that program?
Mr. Potié: What I mean is that, with one or two exceptions, there is no minority francophone magazine industry.
Senator Murray: The others are quite profitable in any case, such as L'Actualité and others.
Mr. Potié: They are profitable, and that is fine. We advocate a policy to support our Canadian magazines and resources allocated in support of Canadian publishing, writing and content. But perhaps, for the francophone minority communities, there may be criteria adapted to their reality. They apparently do not publish a glossy magazine that will attract advertising from Honda or Nissan, because Nissan will not want to advertise for 3,000 persons.
Senator Murray: But there are francophone magazines, are there not?
Mr. Potié: There is Liaison, which is an Ottawa cultural magazine, and there are a few literary magazines, Virage and others. There is no current affairs magazine; if we count them right now, there are two or three so-called university publications. There are not a lot. That requires a lot of money.
Senator Murray: They are not for profit or are they necessarily not for profit?
Mr. Potié: There is necessarily not a lot of money to be made in the magazine industry for francophones outside Quebec.
Senator Murray: You are contemplating a policy?
Mr. Potié: First, we are contemplating a discussion with program representatives. We would like a policy that takes into account Canadian content growth support objectives and that is oriented toward the only partner there is for the francophone communities right now, which is the community press. Those representatives have to ask us the question: how can we help you better serve the communities and help this program achieve its objectives?
Senator Murray: Even though content is somewhat specialized in the case of the universities, for example, there may perhaps be other sources of federal or even provincial assistance for those magazines, no?
Mr. Potié: We are a newspaper association, so I am not very aware of the situation regarding magazines. What we are saying is that there is a program, but that it is not adapted to the situation of minority francophones.
When I talk about the intent of Bill S-3, the way we understood it is that when a department has a program and the francophone minorities and communities try to access it, they are told: "Pardon us, here are our criteria." It takes criteria that would produce a similar impact in our communities, but the reality and tools that we have in the printing sector is that these are community papers. They are not L'Actualité or Elle or Coup de Pouce.
Senator Murray: Mr. Henry, I know lamentably little about your industry, but two questions come to my mind. Would I be wrong in saying or repeating what I have heard it said by others: that francophone artists are in a better position than their anglophone counterparts because they have a guaranteed, even captive market in Canada? They are not threatened by American competition to the same degree as their anglophone counterparts?
Mr. Henry: Perhaps a few years ago, but things have changed with the digital revolution. The problem is very Canadian. My daughter buys her music solely over the Internet at 99 cents per song. This new generation of Canadians is the one that will be buying in the future. We anticipate that the plastic medium, the CD, will disappear, as the cassette and vinyl disappeared. The audience is more captive because it has access to music from around the world. You have to have access to the content of your own communities. No, there is no longer a captive market.
Senator Murray: You might find my next question a bit prickly. Federal policies concerning your industry are on copyright, the problems you just raised, the Internet, and trade treaties with our trading partners around the world. Are there any federal policies over which your interests, your perspectives and those of your counterparts in the anglophone industry in Canada are strongly at odds?
Mr. Henry: Is there any opposition in the application of programs?
Senator Murray: Not application or development. Are there any policies over which you are at odds with your anglophone friends?
Mr. Henry: No.
Senator Murray: No. So you are on common ground.
Mr. Henry: Indeed, and in many respects, incidentally. New Brunswick is an example of that. Now there is a sectoral association, Musique New Brunswick, which is a bilingual organization. We see that there are similar problems and challenges in both communities. We present a common front in seeking solutions to those problems, such as the problem of human infrastructures, managers and producers; sometimes the problems are similar.
Senator Murray: Is it the same for our international trade policies?
Mr. Henry: At first glance, there is no policy application over which we are at odds. On the contrary. Perhaps we are at odds over that, but only in part. Let us take the case of the Canada Music Fund, and, like the other cultural industries, I mentioned it to you, the Canadian government's investment is based on economic return. So the question we ask ourselves is: what will be the return to you for every dollar invested in the industry or business? How much will that return be for Canada? That favours the big Canadian businesses, the big francophones businesses in Quebec, and that is how it is for all the programs, in publishing and in music.
Senator Murray: So it is a matter of your fair share.
Mr. Henry: Exactly. We are not necessarily at odds with the anglophones over that, but the reality is that our official language communities do not have any big businesses. That said, there are models in publishing; for example, we have adopted the principle of equivalence. We started thinking about that at Musique Action and adopting it in certain ways. Since equivalence means that your target market represents a certain figure, in order to qualify in song or music, the business has to have a certain number of albums sold or artists signed, for example. There are economic measures that enable businesses to be funded by the Canada Music Fund, for example. There is no equivalence criterion. Publishers have adopted equivalence criteria that enable French Canadian publishers to access a certain percentage of BPIDP funding. Similarly, the Canadian Television Fund has adopted the measure of the minimum closed envelope in the order of $250,000 to $300,000, which has its own criteria for francophone producers. This has enabled certain productions to be done outside Quebec. In television and film, it is even tougher. Often, no life is possible outside Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver, because it is a costly medium. And yet, with this measure, this envelope, television productions like Francoeur in Ontario, for example, have been produced and have been successful.
Senator Murray: Mr. Ouellette, the only community radio station that I know a little is in Chéticamp, Cape Breton, a region where I go in the summer. It is very good, by the way. I understand what you said about the importance of community radio.
The question that comes to my mind concerns the governance of existing community radio stations. Of course, they are regulated by the CRTC, but how do they govern themselves locally? Is there a governance model? How do we prevent a small group from taking control, from taking over the station? With regard to news, for example, there are issues in the francophone regions that sometimes divide the community, over which various sectors of the population are opposed. How do we ensure that both viewpoints are represented in editorial policy? Is there a local governance model?
Mr. Ouellette: That is an excellent question. First, the community radio stations are non-profit organizations, and some operate on a cooperative arrangement, including that of Chéticamp and other models as well. They are based on the cooperative model, and consequently there is a form of regulation, a culture that is cooperative in the way they operate. That is one way of operating. The other way of operating is to be a not-for-profit business. The radio station belongs to the community; that is the starting point. I was chairman and member of the board of directors of the radio station in Shediac for a few years, so I can speak first-hand about that experience. There are increasing numbers of experiences.
Senator Murray: You were elected by the community?
Mr. Ouellette: Yes. The people from the community are invited to become members of the radio station.
Senator Murray: As in a co-op, yes.
Mr. Ouellette: A general meeting is held every year, and all members are invited to that meeting, which is convened to elect a board of directors. The board of directors must then form a front office. Last, that front office has to work together with the board of directors.
Senator Murray: That is the case with the 21 stations?
Mr. Ouellette: That is the case with everyone. That said, you are putting your finger on something very sensitive, the governance issue. This is an ongoing challenge in all our communities, and I would even say everywhere; the World Bank has had to deal with governance problems. There are a lot of examples that show this is the case everywhere. It is human. There have been crises at certain radio stations, difficulties, take-over attempts.
At ARC du Canada, we work with our members a great deal. We have an assistance service, and a full-time person is available to assist the radio stations. So we are developing governance models, templates. We also provide training. One of the governance principles that we apply everywhere is that the board of directors and the president of a radio station are not the ones who manage the station, but rather the general management.
We offer training to explain the difference so that board members do not interfere in the radio station's operations or in regular programming. The role of the board is to set guidelines.
Unfortunately, despite all the teaching and training that we offer, every year we have to deal with crises at certain radio stations where board members think that the station belongs to them or that they are the ones who have to manage the station. When that occurs, there is a problem, and a crisis can arise. It is a recurring problem.
In other words, we will never solve the governance problem. Why? Because the system is based on volunteer work. Every year or every two years, there are new members, a new board, new training, new types of awareness. They understand, they go away and we start over. That is part of the ground rules.
However, you are asking a very relevant question. That is why, under our Canadian Radio Fund project, a portion of the funding will be used for governance training. That is important because, when a crisis arises in a community — and I believe there are people around the table who have had experience with major disputes at community radio stations — that can simply kill off a radio station.
Senator Murray: But your alliance has no moral authority?
Mr. Ouellette: Yes, absolutely. That is part of our mandate. We offer services to members, who decide of their own free will to join the alliance, and we provide them with services. Those services include assistance on governance issues. Sometimes we send a fire-fighter into a community to put out a fire. That happens. Your question is entirely relevant.
As I mentioned, it is not because the community is involved that we are perfect. It is not because the community is involved that is not good either. Governance is a problem that exists, and it is a problem that arises everywhere, including in our communities. I can tell you that we are putting mechanisms in place. It also has to be said that most of our radio stations operate under provincial statutes.
When the by-laws of a radio station are filed, there are rules that have to be followed. There has to be an AGM once a year. There has to be a budget. The budget has to be audited by accountants. Last, there has to be evidence of sound management and governance practices in order to comply with the act.
I believe that our radio stations as a whole comply with the act, but you are right: this is an Achilles heel. It is a permanent problem, but we are working on it.
Senator Tardif: Canada was recently able to have a policy on the protection and promotion of cultural diversity accepted at UNESCO. In your opinion, is that policy an asset in providing support for culture for the francophone minority communities? Do you believe that can have an effect?
Mr. Henry: Obviously. First and foremost, that convention enables the states to support and take action both to preserve and to develop their culture. Now it is in its implementation that we will see how it can contribute to the official language communities and how this diversity will be supported in Canada.
Mr. Paquin: It is actually a good initiative, but it now remains to be determined how each of the states will implement it. That is something else. What must be understood about all cultural issues is that this is very fragile, particularly in a minority setting. Even Quebec is not protected from certain abuses or certain assimilation with the globalization we talked about earlier and new technologies. They are increasingly accessible.
I also have teenage daughters and they are increasingly consuming around the world. This is a constant challenge, but we have to create an effective environment, and that starts in early childhood. We have to give these communities the tools to support and assist children from early childhood to primary and secondary school. We know there is a widespread francophone exodus and a lot of assimilation with exogamous marriages. However, if we do not provide tools and policies that are conducive to this vitality of our francophone culture — that also includes all ethnic groups that speak French — we will lose ground.
It is therefore important not only to consolidate what we have, but also to plan for our future and to ensure we have a complete environment. Earlier we talked about health and education; culture affects all levels. It is a major challenge and a major mandate, but today we must take concrete action to ensure this francophone succession and the survival of culture.
The Chairman: Gentlemen, on behalf of the committee, I sincerely want to thank you for your presentations and for your answers to the many questions from senators. This is a very good start to our new study. If you have any suggestions to send the committee, please contact the clerk and we will be pleased to receive them.
Colleagues, we will now take a five-minute break, then proceed in camera concerning the committee's future business.
The committee continued in camera.