Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 7 - Evidence - Morning meeting of June 4, 2008
BATHURST, NEW BRUNSWICK, Wednesday, June 4, 2008
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met today at 10 a.m. to study and report from time to time on the application of the Official Languages Act and of the regulations and directives made under it, within those institutions subject to the act.
Honourable Maria Chaput (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: My name is Maria Chaput and I am a senator from Manitoba. I am the Chair of the Senate Standing Committee on Official Languages. Senator Andrée Champagne is from Quebec, and is the Co-Chair of this committee.
[English]
We have with us Senator Lowell Murray, from Ontario.
[Translation]
To my left is Senator Losier-Cool, Senator Eymard Corbin, who are both senators from the province of New Brunswick. Thank you for being here.
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages is currently studying with a view to reporting from time to time the application of the Official Languages Act and of the regulations and directives made under it.
The committee began a study on culture in order to better understand the issues in minority francophone communities and their commitment to the reinforcement of cultural diversity. Arts and culture are the primary axes upon which francophone and Acadian communities throughout the country flourish. Bathurst is in the heart of Acadia, which is why we chose to hold our public hearings here. We will also be travelling to Tracadie. The committee made the decision to come here and listen to what Acadians have to say about the state of the language and culture characteristic of Acadia.
[English]
We are here today because we want to hear from various associations, groups and individuals from within the francophone and Acadian community. We want to hear your testimony, and it will assist the committee in better understanding the status of the francophone culture in this province.
I would like now to welcome two witnesses. Our first witness is Mr. Stephen Brunet, who is the Mayor of Bathurst. I was told that before being elected, Mr. Brunet was a teacher in Bathurst, and that you were first elected in 2004 and re- elected again in 2008. It must be quite interesting to move from teaching into politics.
After hearing from Mr. Brunet, we will hear from Mr. Frénette.
[Translation]
Mr. Frénette had been Deputy Mayor of the town of Petit-Rocher and has served as a city counsellor since 2004. He is a member of the executive committee on the Commission on Urban affairs in Belledune, and he is also one of the founding members of the art gallery, Galerie Roche.
[English]
Stephen Brunet, Mayor, City of Bathurst: Thank you very much for the invitation to be here this morning. First, I must welcome everybody to Bathurst.
[Translation]
Welcome to Bathurst, the centre of the North.
[English]
I believe that we are geographically located in the centre, and because of this, we have become the service centre of all of Northern New Brunswick, and especially the northeastern part of New Brunswick.
We are truly a bilingual community. I just came from Tim Hortons, where they are having their camp day, and I just grabbed a shirt and I did not even look at it, but mine is in French, and there were some that were in English. I never even thought twice about looking for that sort of thing. I just grabbed a shirt and served coffee for the last two hours. I served coffee to many people who asked for their coffee in French and many who asked for it in English as well.
As you can tell, my main language is English. I was born however in Lachine, Québec, and my dad was totally francophone. We moved here because my mother was from this part of the world. I studied in French at the beginning of my life, and then moved to an English community and then taught in English for 34 years. I was involved in politics as well for 12 years before I became mayor. I served four terms as councillor in this community.
We are proud to say that we are the first bilingual city in New Brunswick. Moncton tries to claim it, but they are wrong. We were, and we will stand by that.
We provide all our services in the two languages. We have our meetings every Monday night and one Monday a month we have a regular public meeting and we have simultaneous translation at that meeting. We have a booth. Our City Hall was built in 2003, so it is built properly to serve both languages in the language of choice. We are more than just a city however, we are a community, and we are a regional area. That is very important.
I am chair of Le forum des maires, which consists of mayors from Bathurst to Belledune, and there are six of us. Four are francophones and two are anglophones. We sit once a month discussing common issues, and the language of choice, whatever the mayor decides to speak or representative, that is the language that is used. I think we are very rich because of that, very rich.
We have a big Acadian population in this part of the world and that Acadian population is different I believe than the Quebec French and because of that difference, we are unique. I think it is a very valued part of our community. For example, you could come to Bathurst like today and if you were not working, you could park yourself at this hotel and then you could wander around Bathurst for a day.
If you like golf, we have two golf courses. If you like just to walk on the beach, we have three beaches. If you would like to take part in some other activities, we have a little museum and quite a few things for you to take part in. You could take a drive down to the Village Historique Acadien and experience the rich culture and history of the Acadian people. We will be setting up a virtual museum for people to visit our website to see Acadian artifacts. The Heritage Department gave us a grant of nearly $400,000, and our collège communautaire put together this virtual museum of artifacts from the Acadian culture way back when until now. We are very proud of it.
I was just talking to Senator Corbin who went to that school on the hill, and it is still a very, very good school, very dynamic, with over 1,000 students studying a tout en français.
We have also many bilingual students going to that school as well, and there are two campuses. We have an English high school and a French high school, two separate schools. We have the same with junior high and same with elementary schools; we have separate schooling here and separate busing. The students go to school on separate buses, but on the weekend at the skateboard park, you will find the kids from both schools. You will find the kids from both schools at the movie theatre; they live side by side. Maybe they go to different schools, but then they just share their day together naturally. There are no problems with it.
Every now and then, you will get a fight between ESN and BHS, but when I grew up on the Miramichi, we used to fight between Chatham and Newcastle; it was the same type of thing. You had that competition between sporting teams and between — you know, you are chasing girls in Chatham and you should not be chasing girls in Chatham. It is the same thing here. We are just a small community. Everybody knows everybody, and it seems to work well.
Every now and then, you get radicals for both sides that will step up to the plate and say you are doing something wrong in the language issue. For example, we fly the four flags. We fly the Canadian flag, we fly the New Brunswick flag, we fly the Acadian flag, and we fly the Union Jack. We put the Union Jack up at our civic centre just recently and some people are upset about that. I do not understand that because — but not very many. I just got a couple of phone calls on something like that.
I was asked about that flag up there by the veterans. We have our Remembrance Day ceremonies indoors now at the civic centre because veterans are getting very old and when we had it outside, they were cold and we had no place for them to sit; it never failed that one would pass out. To avoid that, we have our Remembrance Day ceremony there. We built a carbon copy of our cenotaph, which is part of our civic centre. Consequently, some of them asked me to put the Union Jack up because they fought under that, and I said, that is the four official flags of the Province of New Brunswick; they fly in the legislature. Then some people got upset over that, but that is a small issue and there are just a couple of people that would take offence to that.
We just had an election and on my council, I have last names like Roy, Doucet, Comeau, Ferguson, Young, Wiseman, Gammon and Anderson. With those names, you would think I would have almost an equal mix of French and English, but I do not. I have two councillors that can speak French on my council right now, two that are bilingual. One of the councillors is named Gammon, a very English name, and Roy is the other one. The rest of the council does not speak French, so it just shows that people accept the fact that as long as you are working for the community and you are working for the good of everybody, language, well yes, it would be nice to be served in our language, and we make sure of that at City Hall. With respect to the names in our community, if you look at our phone book, my name is Brunet, but I grew up in the English school system and I was called Brunet. There is not much difference, but there is a little different twang to it. That just seems to be the way. If you look in the phone book and see the surname Arseneau and you give them a call, you could be speaking to somebody who is only English or somebody who is only French. That is the way our community is made up and put together.
I believe that there are not many stores in Bathurst that you go to that you would not get served in the language of your choice, French or English. I think that this is very important and business people realize that they are in business to make money and they want to serve the customers that live here. And to serve the customers, you have to be able to serve them in the language of choice.
That seems to be quite accepted because I talk to some people in our stores, and they say in any given day, they might not recognize anybody as being from Bathurst. They would be from Caraquet or Miramichi or they would be from some other area outside coming in, especially since we have a large health care facility here.
Our large health care facility is bilingual and it serves the Miramichi just as well as it serves Tracadie or Shippagan. It serves them very well. We have very good health care, very good health care.
You had a question on immigrants. We do not have a lot of immigrants in our community right now. We have some, definitely, a lot of professional people, but I had a visit yesterday from a couple from Mexico and they would like to move to Bathurst, but immigration policies are too stringent and too hard. These people are having a very difficult time getting into Canada. They are two young people that just finished studying for a year at the collège comunautaire at the top of the hill, and they do not know how they are going to get back into Canada.
They loved it here. They were here for a year and now because their time has run out, they have to go back, and it is sad to say they are going to have a hard time getting back into Canada.
My manager just married a girl from Madagascar, and she is not a Canadian citizen. Well, they are having a real struggle getting her citizenship, you know?
We truly want to welcome immigrants to Canada. We have to change the rules some way or another. We have to make this more friendly.
I went to an immigration conference down in Halifax. A number of speakers got up and said, "Yes, we say we want immigrants and ideally we would like to have immigrants come in, but on the ground, it is very tough.''
We have a big decline in population in Northern New Brunswick. Our young people are leaving us to go to bigger centres around Canada, which is the same for many communities. At the collège communautaire on the hill, 90 per cent of the students leave that institution, leave New Brunswick and go to Fort McMurray or Vancouver or Toronto and other cities far away. It makes you really wonder what we are doing wrong that they leave once they are trained. It is a little bit of a stumbling block, trying to keep our people here.
You can go around town and you are going to see "help wanted'' signs on a lot of businesses. They are looking for workers right now. However, the workers might not be making $25 and $30 an hour, and not $45 or $50 like they are in Fort McMurray. In the tourism industry, like this morning, the people who took care of you at the hotel here, they are not making $45 an hour, you know? So what entices them to stay?
Yet, we demand that frontline workers are officially bilingual, we demand that they present themselves in a very polite and professional manner, but they are not paid the wages that go along with the demands sometimes.
We are losing many people from the Acadian Peninsula. I do not know about Petit-Rocher here in the last census, but we only went down about 100 people in our census last time in Bathurst because we have people moving into Bathurst from Saint-Sauveur, Saint-Simon, and Robertville. They move here when they get old. They are an aging population and they come here because we have pharmacies, medical clinics, banks, food service and restaurants at their fingertips. A local entrepreneur is building smaller homes all around these services and he is renting them as fast as he can put the foundation up. He has many requests for the apartments or the smaller units. People are moving into our community; we are not losing residents like they are in Northern New Brunswick where they are losing a tremendous amount of people.
Southern New Brunswick is benefiting from that as well. If you go to the Town of Dieppe, half of Dieppe is made up of Northern New Brunswick.
Dieppe is the francophone municipality in that area, and many francophone people from Northern New Brunswick are heading off to Dieppe where there are more chances to work and there is a place for them where they feel good. Dieppe is a nice community. It is very close to Moncton, close to good highways to go to Halifax or to go to Saint John or Fredericton, whereas we have highways that are a little substandard and it makes it very difficult for people to travel back and forth.
You asked a question on the challenges of cultural stakeholders across Canada. I cannot answer that question. I do not know what people are facing across Canada.
When 90 per cent of these francophone people, young people leave Bathurst, what do they face when they go to Fort McMurray? I hear rumours, but I do not know if they are true or they are just rumours. There are camps I hear in Fort McMurray for these people that work, there are camps for the French people, and there are camps for the English people. Is that true? I do not know; I just hear that. Are they leaving here to mix in with the rest of the general population, or are they being segregated because of language when they move across Canada? That question is in the back of my mind, so that is why I put it out there.
Another question you asked was about the Official Language Act. Well, I did not get into it and read it per se. All I know is that we try to do the best we can in offering all the services that we have in both official languages.
There is not one piece of correspondence that goes out of my office that is not fully translated, and if I am sending it to a client that I know is francophone, it is francophone first and English second. If it is an English client, I will send it English on one side and French on the other side.
We have a translation service at our fingertips that we use daily, and if somebody comes in to my office and wants to hang a sign for a concert that is coming up, if the sign is written in both languages, I will hang it in City Hall. If the sign is unilingual, I will ask them to get it translated or provide me one in each language. That is how dedicated I think we are to servicing our population.
I will stop there; I think I am over my five minutes. I am sorry, but old teachers, we just never stop talking.
[Translation]
Gaston Frénette, Deputy Mayor, Town of Petit-Rocher: Madam Chair, welcome to our region. I am sure that you will have wonderful day ahead of you, and I hope that you will be enjoying some good lobster.
I come from a small town of 1,966 inhabitants, the town of Petit-Rocher. According to the last census, we have lost 40 residents. Petit-Rocher has always been perceived as a cultural centre. We have welcomed artists such as Willy Lamotte, René Martel, Marcel Martel and Zachary Richard. In Petit-Rocher reside artists such as Gilbert Leblanc, who is a renowned lead sculptor, Danny Boudreau, a song composer. In fact, Danny Boudreau is the author of the theme song for the 400th anniversary of Quebec City. Denis Richard is well-known for his song "Petit-Rocher.'' All these people come from our region, and we are proud of them.
For a small municipality, we are fairing quite well. Encompassing an area of three kilometres by seven kilometres, we have all the necessary infrastructure to live well. It is arts and culture which keep people in our town. Residents gather in small cafés, theatres that hold 40 to 50 seats, and we discuss arts and culture. In order to maintain smaller municipalities, it is important to have arts and culture. In our town, a mini art gallery is just as profitable as a large art gallery, and it is in this regard that small municipalities could receive assistance.
Earlier, there was mention of the art gallery, Galerie Roche, located in Petit-Rocher. This is a small art gallery that was founded by Gilbert Leblanc. We all worked as volunteers. One cannot serve as both artist and volunteer, therefore people and money are needed. We should be able to set up a small art gallery in the library, and everyone could work together.
Petit-Rocher is made up 99.5 per cent francophones. We live in French. It is certain that the majority of residents are bilingual. However, the generation preceding us, that of my mother's, do not speak a word of English.
What is good to see is that here in Bathurst, one can be served in both official languages, something that was not possible 25 years ago. I recall my mother coming home and telling us, "I was not able to buy that because I did not know how to ask for it in English.'' Things have changed enormously. Things are becoming increasingly francophone.
I became involved in politics to try and save the identity of Petit-Rocher because I believe in the identity of each individual town. Each town has a history worth saving. I am not opposed to municipality amalgamations, but I believe that small municipalities should safeguard their identities.
One approach that works well in our region is that of commissions. We have a Commission on urban affairs, which brings together representatives from each municipality; a Police Commission as well as a Waste Commission. In keeping with this, I intend to look into the setting up of an Arts and Culture Commission for the region of Chaleur. Commissions work well, and allow us to protect the identity of small towns. DSLs or non-incorporated communities, can be represented on these commissions. I think it would be important to work on setting up arts and culture commissions for each region.
[English]
The Chair: Mr. Brunet do you have libraries? Do you have a public library or are there libraries in the schools?
Mr. Brunet: Each school has its own library, but we do have a public library located in City Hall. It is a very bilingual library. In fact, I think the board is 80 per cent francophone. I have a representative from council that sits on that board as well. It is a well-used library. I go in that office every day, and you will see parents in there with their children, seniors, and it is well stocked with bilingual material.
The Chair: Do you have more than books? Do you have music or just books?
Mr. Brunet: In the library?
The Chair: Yes.
Mr. Brunet: It is mostly a computer access centre. Music, no. In the school system here, each school has its own band, its own choir and its own drama groups as well as sporting groups.
Sporting groups are very important. Bathurst is known to be a hockey town, and we are home of the Acadie- Bathurst Titans. That is the name of our team. It is a Quebec Major Junior team. We did not do really well last year, but we did not do too bad. We went into the playoffs, and we lost in the second round. But, we were there and they are up to the draft this week. Mr. Léo-Guy Morissette is the owner, and hopefully he has his eyes on some good players.
We have 35 hockey teams a year at that centre, and I would say 50 per cent of the population that goes to the games are from the region and 50 per cent or less are from the city. It is a real mixing area. You go there and you walk around and you will hear people from Petit-Rocher, or you will hear people from Caraquet chatting or you will hear people from downtown chatting. It is a real gathering place.
As far as culture, we have a community band made up of, not senior level people, but it is middle-age people. We have a community band. That just started two years ago because a young conductor decided to do it. He put it together and we really enjoy the music. We had a community concert here two nights ago for palliative care, and that was a mixture of our community getting together for a fundraiser. There is a group that is trying to take care of people that are in their last stages of their life, and they had a fundraiser for that.
There are over 100 volunteer groups in the City of Bathurst. We are pretty proud of that, but they are all scratching for members as we lose population. For example, the Richelieu is a big club in Bathurst. They take on supporting the ESN school and they have a park in downtown Bathurst that they have adopted. The Rotary Club is another big club in Bathurst. They had a Rotary International here this weekend. I have to speak at a breakfast on Friday morning. Then, they are going to have a big golf tournament for them when they are here too.
We do have a lot of people coming in for different conferences, et cetera.
The Chair: As a city, do you have some kind of a policy having to do with culture and art groups or a special committee or not?
Mr. Brunet: No.
The Chair: No, not really?
Mr. Brunet: Not that I can think of. We have a Heritage Society. They take care of a museum, and they try to bring out our past and have displays of our past, but no, not as —
The Chair: Not really.
Mr. Brunet: Not that way, I do not think. There are different groups, though. Like the Richelieu is a francophone committee, very strong. The Rotary Club has a mixture. And the list goes on. The Knights of Columbus, both languages. There are quite a few committees, volunteer groups.
We have a Regional Landfill Commission that takes care of all our waste. We have a Regional Tourism Commission. We have a Regional Airport Commission, and that takes care of our airport. We have a Regional Chamber of Commerce. The Chamber of Commerce operates in both languages and deals with people from the whole region. It is unique, and we are proud of that, that we have all of these regional activities rather than just municipal.
Senator Murray: Madam Chair, I should know the answer to this question, but I do not, and I will ask you so that we can put it on the record. What obligations, what linguistic obligations does New Brunswick law impose on municipalities?
Mr. Brunet: We are an officially bilingual province.
Senator Murray: I know that.
Mr. Brunet: I do not know what the demands are on us to provide the services in both languages.
Senator Murray: There is nothing in the Municipalities Act, or whatever the relevant statute is, that requires municipalities in general or certain municipalities where there is a sufficient number to provide services or to hold meetings or whatever in both languages? There is no provincial law affecting the language to be used by municipal governments, is there?
Mr. Brunet: There is. I do not know what the proper wording is for this, but we had to translate all of our bylaws and if you have a certain percentage in your population that is francophone, you have to have your bylaws all translated for both languages.
Senator Murray: Or anglophone I assume in the case of Petit-Rocher.
Mr. Brunet: Yes, but I do not know if you live in St. Stephen if you have to do that.
Senator Murray: No, what is the percentage, mayor?
Mr. Brunet: Here?
Senator Murray: No, what is the percentage defined by the New Brunswick law?
Mr. Brunet: I do not know. I do not have that statistic with me, but I know that we complied before we were even asked.
Senator Murray: Now that applies to the publication of bylaws. What about the language of the council and so on?
Mr. Brunet: We just had an election and anybody could run.
Senator Murray: Oh, I understand that perfectly.
You say you have simultaneous translation.
Mr. Brunet: Yes.
Senator Murray: Is that just on a once-a-month basis?
Mr. Brunet: Yes, once a month.
Senator Murray: That is once a month, at the public meeting?
Mr. Brunet: Yes.
Senator Murray: It is a council meeting or a meeting between the council and the public I guess?
Mr. Brunet: Yes. Every meeting is an open meeting.
Senator Murray: So you provide simultaneous translation for those present. Who pays for that service?
Mr. Brunet: We do, at the cost of about $1,800 a meeting.
Senator Murray: Now, for the translation of the bylaws, and I presume that applies to other notices that the municipality would put out, but does the province assist you? Does it provide either financial or technical assistance?
Mr. Brunet: There was a grant available when we first started translating our bylaws, and I think we used that up. Any correspondence now or any bylaw changes, et cetera, we take care of that ourselves.
[Translation]
Senator Murray: Mr. Frénette, how does the provincial legislation define a linguistic minority and the subsequent obligation to provide services and issue publications in both languages? Are you aware of the percentage?
Mr. Frénette: No. I cannot answer that question. I know that there are funds available. We are 99 per cent francophone, and we have never been faced with the issue of translating publications into English. But I know that there are funds available. Even if there has never been a need to translate into English, I know that the province has funds for that.
Senator Murray: Yes.
Mr. Frénette: Take for example the Commission on urban affairs, which operates solely in French. We received an amount of money to translate the regulations into English, but I am unaware of the exact percentage, and cannot answer your question.
Senator Murray: In your case, I presume that the anglophone minority in this region speaks French.
Mr. Frénette: Yes.
[English]
Mr. Brunet: I would like to return to the question of financial assistance. As you notice, I speak mostly English, but if I have French written in front of me, I can deliver my speeches in both. However, when I looked around for funding so that I could go away and study French, and there is no funding available for politicians. That surprised me.
When I was a teacher, I could get help to go away and study, take some French language courses, no problem whatsoever, but as a politician, there is nothing out there that I could tap into for assistance to study French. I was surprised.
Senator Murray: I presume that the Province of New Brunswick offers courses to its civil servants for example, and perhaps to the members of the Legislature, I do not know. Certainly, politicians in Ottawa have the opportunity to study English or French, as the case maybe, at the expense of the public. Perhaps you and/or the province should get together with the federal government to see whether some arrangements can be made for municipal leaders who want to take advantage of that opportunity.
Senator Champagne: I think the better way to consider this would be for you to pay for your lessons, which then becomes income tax deductible. That cuts the cost in half. That is what I have done with Spanish over the years.
Mr. Brunet: Yes, I had a tutor last year. It was very good, it was very helpful, but it is hard to take time out of your schedule as mayor to go there because like today, I am just waiting to get out of here because I have another four items on my agenda. I am going to try again. I think I am going to go hide somewhere.
Senator Champagne: But there has got to be a separation between "there is no money to be tapped into to pay for that'' and "I do not really have the time'' and "I do not need it very often.''
Mr. Brunet: Oh, I need it all the time.
Senator Champagne: So let us not say it is because the government does not give you a financial incentive.
Mr. Brunet: I did it anyway. I did it anyway, but it would be nice to have the financial incentive.
Senator Losier-Cool: I would like to thank our two witnesses for appearing before the committee.
Mr. Mayor, I lived in Bathurst from 1963 to 1993, and I did even campaign at times at municipal elections so that we could have some francophone members. I was very, very surprised at the last election to see the francophone number had gone down. Was there a backlash in the community, in the francophone community? Were they surprised?
Mr. Brunet: I do not think so. I think one of the issues that keep people away from running from municipal politics is the time requirement, now it has gone up to four years, and some people say it is too time consuming. I do not think language was — I never got that feeling out there anyway. It is part of the deal.
Senator Losier-Cool: I know there was festival days and hospitality days, but there must be times when the francophones have groups coming into the city? Is there a way that they can have any funding from the municipality?
Mr. Brunet: We do not fund too much in that vein. We stay away from the funding of cultural events.
Senator Losier-Cool: But you do fund sporting events.
Mr. Brunet: We have just such a tight budget. As you know, we lost our mill, which was a million dollars off of our operating budget. That hurt us tremendously. We have the second highest tax rate in the province, so we do not even take trips anymore. We just cut down to the bare bone until we can find some solutions to our problem.
We have $33 million in needs for roads and we have so many other needs that we had to cut on giving out to teams that travel, musical groups et cetera. We try to help them with free space in our civic centre or cut rate or whatever, but we are challenged financially because of losing our big employer in the city.
Senator Losier-Cool: Bathurst appears to be a bilingual city, and I know, I agree with you there have been many improvements to get service in French or both official languages.
When someone arrives in Bathurst, how many street names are in French would you say?
Mr. Brunet: We have gone to a policy where we do not put "rue'' or "street,'' we just put O'Neil or Collège or whatever. Just whatever the street name was way back when, we just took off the name that goes with it, and it is just a word.
Senator Losier-Cool: But I mean the name itself. Not "street'' or "rue,'' but the name itself.
Mr. Brunet: I do not know. Those are traditional names that were here before my time. In history, that was the name of the street, like Main Street or St. Peter Avenue. People have asked us to change the names, to put accents in, but the council of the day chose to leave things just the way they always were.
[Translation]
Senator Losier-Cool: When you have a commission, let us say an Arts and Culture Commission, would its members be elected municipal counsellors, or are there some members of the community?
Mr. Frénette: The Commission on urban affairs in Belledune has two municipal representatives, one an elected official, and one who is not elected. I am the elected representative in Petit-Rocher. There is a citizen representative, a non-elected person who is on the committee as well. Each community has two representatives, plus two representatives for each non-incorporated community, or DSL, located around the municipalities. So we are a group of 12 people that makes decisions for the entire community. I really think this is an approach that should be considered for the arts and culture.
Senator Losier-Cool: Yes, to include all members of the community. The example of the Festival des rameurs, in Petit-Rocher, comes to mind, because it is a strong cultural activity. Does the municipal council provide any funding for an activity of that type?
Mr. Frénette: We are involved in advertising, that is we provide them with financial backup. If they go into a deficit, we will step in to help out. All municipal employees are available during the festival. They deal with pretty much everything. We are trying to provide financial assistance with one representative. There is a municipal representative on the festival board as well, but we do not have funds earmarked just for the festival.
What I managed to do last year, for the first time in Petit-Rocher, following a request for funding, is to get $10,000 just for the arts and culture in Petit-Rocher. They reduced that by $5,000, but I did manage to get $5,000, which is a start. In the next budget, I will be asking for an additional $10,000, but with the $5,000, I was able to provide support to Gilbert Leblanc. His works are currently on display in the library in Petit-Rocher, and we have been able to pay him $500. However, we did not have this little fund before last year. I think this is just the beginning. Each municipality should set aside a percentage of its budget for the arts and culture, but this flows out of the Estates General. I think this is just the beginning in Petit-Rocher, and I am sure that this can go much further.
Senator Corbin: I would like to ask one or two questions about young people — both anglophones and francophones. It is often said that a community's prosperity is measured by its ability to train its young people and keep them in the community.
[English]
It is evident, according to what Mayor Brunet has said, that young people leave the area in great numbers when they have achieved their educational goals, whether with a university degree or trade or what have you. That is quite an onus, not only on your municipalities but also on the capacity of the Province of New Brunswick to grow in greater prosperity than it actually does. Why do they leave once they have achieved some considerable degree of academic success? Are there efforts to keep them within your communities? What is the fundamental problem?
Mr. Brunet: The English population has very little opportunity to study after high school here. The college on the hill is francophone, and they really do not welcome English people into their hallways. Consequently, none of the graduating class of anglophones would continue to study here in Bathurst. They have a school of nursing up here from the University of New Brunswick. They will be leaving to study in the Miramichi or in Fredericton or in Sackville or wherever, and once they leave, they do not come back.
They come back just for the summer maybe, for a summer job or because the parents are still here and they are still attached, but they take off and they just keep on going.
It is the same thing with the francophone population. I golf with a young person who just graduated from ESN here about five years ago. I golfed with him last summer. He is in Fort McMurray, and he has got his own home now, his own motorbike, his own car, truck. He is doing very well financially. He would not be doing the same thing here because the mine is on the way down. Our big mine is Brunswick Mine and it has only three years left. Our mill just shut down. The people who were working at that mill are travelling all over the country working, but a lot of them stayed here because Caribou mine opened up and we got employment there. However, the people who are going out West to work, they come home and they spend their money, but their children, if they are taking their children out there, the children stay out there to spend their money. This generation is okay, but will the next generation come back? No. That is the problem for New Brunswick, a big time problem, and I do not know the solution.
We are looking for more mines right now. We have geologists and prospectors out there really looking for more mines.
Our forestry industry is in real trouble across Canada, so what do you do with the wood? We live in the woods and it is sad to say that we cannot use them for anything right now, unless we change the way we are looking at that.
I just came back from a conference in Sweden. There were 54 countries represented, and 54 countries are talking about using biofuel out of trees, you know, and forestry being totally changed. They do not waste one little bit of the tree in Sweden. They turn it into energy and we are not doing that here. They are employing young people. In the energy field, not as big of a number is required as there was in the pulp and paper.
That is part of our problem. Some of the good jobs — like I said to you this morning, you are served by somebody who is polite and takes care of you but is not making $40 an hour.
[Translation]
Mr. Frénette: I have another opinion on that. My daughter is studying at the University of Moncton. She is 21 years old and I am considering buying her a $7,000 lot in Petit-Rocher. I always tell her that she could live on $10 an hour less, but live well in a small community where she would have the woods at her back and the sea before her. I tell her that she could live well on very little. It is true that if you want to have two cars and travel around with a large trailer and all the rest, you will have to go elsewhere and get a big salary. In her group of friends, six are graduating this year, and I think four of them are coming to work in Bathurst. Two will be working at the hospital and the other at the college. And I think one of them will be leaving.
I talk with these young people, who are my daughter's age, and, since I was a soccer coach, they all want to come back. It does not take much to make them come back. We are the ones who have to tell them, "You cannot get $35 an hour, but you can get $15 an hour and live well''.
I think that our region has a lot to offer. I am an interior decorator and I have done a lot of houses lately. It is true that many people have left for Fort McMurray, but their spouses have remained here and they are the ones who are wasting the money. When a couple leaves, it is not good for the region, but when one person leaves and then comes back every two or three weeks with a lot of cash, I think that the community benefits in many ways.
We can interest young people by investing in arts and culture. A wine and cheese party at the art gallery would be an outing for them. They do not need to go to a big theatre or a big centre to have fun. The next day, they can walk along the seaside or hike in the woods. That is worth its weight in gold. We have to educate these young people that they can work in the regions at a lower salary, but they can live well and maintain a healthy lifestyle.
Senator Corbin: With regard to radio and television services, do you feel that you are well served?
Mr. Frénette: Yes, I think that we are very well served. Radio-Canada is a good station. CKLE in Bathurst and Max in Bathurst are two Bathurst radio stations that provide services in both languages.
Senator Corbin: Do you feel that you are getting full access to national and international news with those services?
Mr. Frénette: Absolutely.
Senator Corbin: Do you get Radio-Canada programs?
Mr. Frénette: Yes, but the only problem we have in the north is with the newspapers. We have a newspaper called the Acadie-Nouvelle; I do not think that there are enough journalists here in Bathurst to cover the entire region.
[English]
Mr. Brunet: We have two weekly newspapers as well. The Northern Light is the English newspaper, and L'Hebdo Chaleur is the French newspaper.
That occurred during my term. A group of people came to see me and they said they would like to have a French newspaper, so we invited Jamie Irving into the city, and he agreed and they put in place the L'Hebdo Chaleur.
There are two weekly newspapers, which is a good thing. Of course, there is L'Acadie-Nouvelle and then we get the Moncton Times & Transcript and the Telegraph-Journal.
In television, I am not sure. I do not watch that much television. I watch the hockey games, but that is about it.
Senator Losier-Cool: Are there any French bookstores?
Mr. Brunet: Yes, we have French bookstores.
You asked about festivals a while ago and I forgot to mention that we support festivals. During our hospitality days, we give them free space for their gatherings. We also provide them with police and fire services, and public works will set up the grounds for them. We do work in-kind. On the festival week, there is Acadian Night, which is all French, and we have J. P. LeBlanc, who is one of our blues players and one of the few blues players in French. He is very good.
Senator Murray: Something that Mayor Brunet raised that I forgot to mention was immigration. I think you know that immigration is a shared jurisdiction between Ottawa and the provinces. The provinces have a right, if they want to exercise it, to be involved in the recruitment of immigrants. I do not know about New Brunswick, but some provinces do have an immigration policy or immigration program with goals and objectives. Nova Scotia does I think. So part of your recourse may be to a provincial minister or department.
Second, I think I should mention Senator Chaput and I are members of another Senate committee, the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance that is studying as we speak proposed amendments to the immigration legislation.
There is a backlog approaching 1 million people, people waiting to get in, and the present law requires the Government to consider their applications on a first-come-first-serve basis. The amendments that are being proposed by the government, and they are rather controversial for reasons I will not bore you with at the moment. However, the amendments would allow for future applications, future applicants — it would allow the minister to reach in and bring to the front of the line those applicants who have particular skills, skills that are particularly in demand. We heard stories of the need for miners for example in Northern Manitoba, and other skills of that nature that are needed elsewhere.
There is a provision in the present law that if immigrants have been assured employment in Canada, that helps to speed the process considerably.
I do not know whether your friends who just graduated, when they graduated from the Collège communautaire, have assured jobs, but if they have, I think the way is paved to some extent for them.
Mr. Brunet: I think the assured jobs are one thing but the other thing is that our young people have grown up spoiled, and they want those high-paying jobs right away. This generation wants a really nice home, two vehicles, all the bells and whistles that go with the home, and they are not prepared to work on a farm for example for seven days a week to take care of that type of industry. They are not prepared to work the long hours necessary for some of our natural resources industry. Maybe there are immigrants out there that would just love to have a farm. If you drive around New Brunswick, you see all these empty fields with nothing in them, and right now, we are talking about a food shortage across the world. We might be a little late at developing these fields but immigrants coming in that have the proper work attitude and ethic that is required to get back in that sort of job, we should consider them too. That is very important for us in Canada.
[Translation]
Senator Champagne: Is culture in general in your towns and cities in particular, a significant component of your economy? I know that announcements are being made about festivals everyone, particularly in the Peninsula, and you also talked about cultural events that you had organized in your town.
[English]
Mayor Brunet, are the cultural events important to the economy of your region? Do you encourage them both financially and culturally?
Mr. Brunet: We are fortunate to have over 100 volunteer groups in the city. Some of those groups are strictly cultural groups. We have an Irish Canadian Cultural Association, which has adopted both a street and a park. They have annual celebrations for the Irish Society. We have the New Brunswick Scottish Cultural Association, which has done the same thing. They bring in haggis and other national food. They have a group, they get together, and they celebrate. They have a great time with that. Then we have of course the Mi'kmaq society in the outskirts of our city and within our city. I am invited to their pow-wow again this year, and I will be going to that to celebrate their culture. They come in, they set up a tee-pee on the waterfront, and they have special celebrations. I am always happy to attend their pow-wow. Of course, the Acadian Society of New Brunswick is alive and well in Bathurst, and we get together for different activities and make sure that our festival also has activities and an Acadian background to them. The Multicultural society welcomes people from all over parts of the world. Like these young people that were in my office yesterday, the first thing they did when they came to Bathurst was join the Multicultural society.
We provide them with a space for their meetings and I go to some of their social activities. It is a feel good thing to go to every one of them.
[Translation]
Senator Champagne: Mr. Frénette, I am curious as to whether you have anything to say to us about the francophone culture in your region.
Mr. Frénette: It is extremely important to us. We are currently working on a concept. We have been working on it for the past few years and we recently had some news. Petit-Rocher used to have a Mineral Interpretation Centre in a building that is approximately 6,000 square feet by the seaside. We want to take this centre and turn it into an Arts and Culture Interpretation Centre in Acadia. We have the Acadian Village, which showcases our past, but other than the Acadian Village, where are our artists in visual arts such as music? We would like to get Édith Butler to come, and musicians and their creations. It would be virtual, we could see the history of those artists, but not in terms of their past but rather in terms of their present. Arts and culture is extremely important to us. That is what gets us to go out.
Senator Champagne: Do you feel that the Government of Canada has done enough to help you, so that you can achieve the goals that you are telling us about today?
Mr. Frénette: Not much assistance has been given for the arts and culture. For sports there has been help. We have great sports teams in Petit-Rocher. We have a lot of athletes, hockey teams and soccer teams. To give you an example, after my election four years ago, I sat on two equal committees, a sports committee mandated to develop infrastructure worth $2.6 million, and the other for this aspect we wanted to develop. The two committees worked in parallel, and the athletic infrastructure is coming to fruition, but not much has happened with the arts and culture project. Most of the time, the artists themselves take things in hand. We all have ideas, but the difficult thing is to take them to the next level, whereas sports projects get involvement from parents and grandparents who want to support development because their young family members will benefit later. It is different in the arts, and I think more strength and funding are needed there. Sports all win out. Mr. Brunet was saying the same thing earlier. We had a little chat, and he talked about hockey right away. He talked about the Titans. But there is less visibility for developments on the arts and culture side.
Senator Champagne: Where sports are concerned, that is why your region has been in great mourning since last week.
Mr. Frénette: Exactly.
[English]
The Chair: I would like to thank you Mr. Mayor for having taken the time to meet with us this morning.
Senator Murray: I asked a couple of questions concerning the Municipalities Act.
The Chair: Would you like that information?
Senator Murray: I think if somebody could make a telephone call to the Department of Municipal Affairs, we could probably get in one paragraph a note. I would like to know that. I should know that, and I do not. I used to know.
What obligations does the New Brunswick law place on municipalities in terms of the treatment of their linguistic minorities, whether English or French? Can they tell us in a nutshell what financial or technical assistance the province offers to municipalities to do whatever it is they are supposed to do?
[Translation]
Senator Corbin: With respect to that, I believe that Senator Murray's concern has been resolved by the fact that each language group has created its own organization. For example, francophone municipalities, towns, etc. have an association that works in their language. There is obviously an umbrella association, but francophones do have their own association. The municipalities receive financial support from the provincial government, certainly for their resources.
Senator Murray: Yes.
Senator Corbin: That might be the avenue to explore.
Senator Losier-Cool: Are bilingual municipalities that want to provide services in both languages protected by the provincial government, which is officially bilingual?
Does provincial legislation set out specific funding for the municipalities? I am talking about Moncton and Bathurst, for example.
Senator Murray: My question deals not only with the framework for municipalities that claim to be bilingual or consider themselves bilingual, but I also want to know whether certain municipalities have a legal obligation, because of the proportion of their residents who belong to the linguistic minority, to provide services and publications in both official languages. What does the law say about that?
The Chair: We will get that information.
[English]
Senator Murray: I am sure somebody could give us a very brief note.
Senator Corbin: One does not need to go into all the gory details, but a paragraph indicating what the situation is.
[Translation]
The Chair: Do we need to try to obtain that information right away, senator?
Senator Murray: No. Once we finish our meetings in New Brunswick, I would like to have the answer.
Senator Corbin: But we need to keep in mind that New Brunswick is the only officially bilingual province. It is the only province in the country with rights enshrined in the Canadian Constitution, and that was something the province of New Brunswick wanted to do in order to guarantee permanently the right for its citizens to speak either language and to be served in either language. New Brunswick is not yet quite perfect, but it is getting there. It takes time.
Senator Losier-Cool: Do those rights impose responsibilities on the municipalities? That is what I am wondering.
Senator Corbin: I would think so.
The Chair: We will now move to our second group of witnesses. We have with us Ms. Diane Leblanc, Cultural Officer for the Société culturelle régionale Nepisiguit, and Mr. Jacques Turgeon, Executive Producer at the NFB's Studio Acadie. As is our usual practice, we will ask you to make a presentation of about five minutes. It is fine if you do not have anything in writing; you can speak to us from your heart. Tell us who you are and what you do in the area of culture, and so on, and then the senators will ask questions. As you have seen, our senators usually have many questions and the time goes quickly.
Diane Leblanc, Cultural Officer, Société Culturelle Régionale Népisiguit: Madam Chair, I am the Development Officer for the Société culturelle régionale Nepisiguit. Our territory stretches from Saint-Sauveur to Pointe-Verte. We have our offices here in Bathurst. This year, we are celebrating our 35th anniversary. Perhaps I could talk to you about some of our projects, since we have been working on cultural development in this area for a number of years. There are no performance facilities in the region.
The region is actually quite small. There are a number of surrounding villages, and for a number of years we have been seeing cultural centres, community centres and Royal Canadian Legions closing their doors. So we began working with the Collège communautaire de Bathurst to develop a 150-seat cabaret-style performance space, because we did not have anything like that here. Since we are a non-profit group, our financial resources are limited and we work with a large number of volunteers. We have approximately 40 active volunteers. The community college has given us the use of what used to be the students' lounge. It is intended to be a multi-use space that is open to the community, not just in Bathurst but across the region. After all, the only places where performances can be held here are in schools. Our two secondary schools, English and French, are not set up to do that. We have been holding performances for a long time, both because we need to do some of that to generate money and because we want to invest in our local artists. We need to be ingenious and find ways to generate some income.
We belong to the Provincial Council of Cultural Societies, which includes the 13 cultural societies in New Brunswick and 3 affiliated centres, which are the school-community centres. The total budget for the 13 cultural societies this year is $310,000. Our own organization has received an average of between $25,000 and $27,000 over the past four years from the Department of Canadian Heritage, and then there are other programs, but that is the largest. We receive the money in five installments over the year. So as you can understand, when the money comes in five installments like that, it is very difficult to do long-range planning.
As I was saying, our volunteers are extremely active and, without them, we would have closed our doors a long time ago. That is why we have turned to the college, which also wants to open itself up to the community and which has said, "There is a campus in Bathurst, which provides services to all francophones from northern-eastern New Brunswick and elsewhere''. So, there are many activities and we had to associate ourselves with major partners to be able to go on.
We have changed direction somewhat because, previously, we were in all the small municipalities, but with the closure of various facilities that are not equipped, in fact, quite often we need to provide everything when an activity is held, be it a book launch, a show or something else. It becomes quite taxing when technical equipment ends up costing more money than the artist does. So, this has been our challenge to some extent over the past few years. I have been a volunteer for a long time and I have been working for almost 20 years. I am the only full-time employee for all the cultural associations. The purpose of the Conseil provincial des sociétés culturelles is to ensure a permanent presence in the regions. So I am there and I am passionate. You need to be a bit crazy to work in this sector, but I love it. And for as long as that fire burns within me, and the volunteers support me, I will stay.
Last, with regard to the development of the "La bébitte'' theatre, we turned to one of the largest programs under Heritage Canada called "Cultural Space Canada''. This is extremely demanding. Once again, the community college lent us international project officers in order to run these projects, because you cannot ask volunteers to do this. So, we got $60,000, and then APECA came on board. We had major support both socially and economically. I will give you this summer's program showcasing our Acadian artists.
Senator Losier-Cool, surely you know Jean-François Breau. He will be a member of our delegation, and the tickets sold out in two days. So for a small theatre such as this, we already see the positive side. Our challenge is a monetary one and also because this is a bilingual region, so things are not always easy.
Jacques Turgeon, Executive Producer, NFB's Studio Acadie: Madam Chair thank you for your invitation. It is always a pleasure to introduce the Studio Acadie. To give you a quick overview, the National Film Board is a public film producer and distributor. Here in Acadia, we try to take on both those roles simultaneously. The Studio Acadie was established in 1974 with the considerable support of Acadian filmmaker Léonard Forêt. Since its creation, the studio has produced more than 70 films and, with local partners, co-produced more than 20, mainly documentaries, but also animated films.
In order to showcase the studio, we have an office in Moncton. There are four employees: an administrative assistant, an administrator, a producer and I am the executive producer. This is a plus because things used to be run out of Montreal, and now they have been decentralized and that is a positive. We are an independent studio, obviously, we get support from Montreal for animation work and marketing, but we have an independent production unit.
I will not go all the way back to 1974, but I have been the executive producer since 2002, and since that time we have produced or co-produced 26 films. We work mainly with a small group of experienced directors who live in Acadia. Obviously, we have also lost some of them to Montreal, but a small group remains. I am thinking of four or five directors who work here permanently. I am thinking of Ginette Pèlerin. I am thinking of Monique Leblanc. I am thinking of Renée Blanchard, who is currently producing a major series for Radio-Canada, and I am also thinking of our friend Herménégilde who too has resisted the call, although he has changed direction over the last two or three years.
So we work with those people. We are currently working with all those who are actively involved in projects that are in production, development, or under consideration. We do a great deal of work with up-and-coming filmmakers of course. We try to do our work because we feel that it is part of our mandate. To compensate, with relay filmmakers, we do a lot of training. The training is done at the creative level, in other words we offer workshops on script development, production, and post-production editing. We also provide assistance for technical training.
I think that Moncton currently has a sound editing studio and a sound post-production studio that benefits from our assistance, because there are people from Montreal who have come down and participated in the set up of that studio, which gives the region even more autonomy in terms of private production and production we do with the NFB.
Of course we do have to say a few words about the problems. We are grappling with problems due to isolation. Clearly it is not at all easy to reach out to the francophone communities in Nova Scotia. We are currently working a great deal with Baie Ste-Marie on two or three projects, but let's say that it is difficult. Of course we also try to establish contact with francophone communities in Newfoundland and Prince Edward Island, but the cultural hubs may not all focus on cinema and audio-visual, but instead on performances.
We have a problem, I will not spend too much time on it, but we have a problem with NFB funding at the regional, global, and national levels that has been ongoing since the major budget cuts that took place in 1994 or 1995, when we faced serious cuts of the order of 30 to 35 per cent. There has never been a readjustment since, contrary to the other federal agencies that have received additional funds. They include the Canada Council for the Arts, Telefilms Canada and the CBC. We have not received anything.
As regards the current situation, we have three films in production, five films in development and five films under consideration. We always work on about 15 projects. I will list some of the projects: in production, we are working with Rodrigue Jean, who is from Caraquet; Rodolphe Caron, who is from Edmundston, and Marie Cadieux, who is from Moncton. We try as much as possible to work with directors and producers who are outside Moncton. We provided considerable assistance for setting up Renée Blanchard's new company which is called "Productions ça tourne.'' We also helped set up a production house in Edmundston, called Productions Appalaches, owned by Rodolphe Caron.
I would like to say a few words about e-cinema, in other words digital cinema. We have set up a pilot project in Acadia which offers small, medium and large theatres with a production quality similar to that of regular theatres. We are using Dolby 5.1 Stereo sound, and I apologize for my lack of technical knowledge. So we are running the project in five municipalities in Acadia. We went to Edmundston, Kedgwick, Bouctouche, Moncton and Caraquet. The theatres that we equipped vary. At the University of Moncton it was a theatre with 300 seats. Then we went to Bouctouche and to Kedgwick with smaller theatres for 20 to 25 people, which makes it possible to show digital films over the Internet. Our material support can be transmitted by satellite or by the Internet, which we are all familiar with. We are in the process of setting up a sixth one in Baie Ste-Marie. That is one of the projects we have with Nova Scotia. We have people in Petit-Rocher whom I met three weeks ago with the view to setting up a theatre. And in this region we also have people who are in the second phase of the project, if we succeed in developing it.
So we are quite satisfied with what is happening in terms of cinema. We see an interesting avenue for development in Canada, because we are not competing with the large commercial theatres, but we are occupying a niche that is currently unoccupied, and that enables us to reach out to the regions that are isolated where there would not be sufficient numbers to put in profitable commercial theatres.
If we look at the challenges we need to rise to, of course we are very close to new technology and new platforms as well. We believe that at present, production in Acadia is primarily for traditional TV. We hope to be able to shift that production towards other things. In terms of new platforms, I currently have projects that are in the cards for strictly Web-based production. I think that with new platforms like the Web, it is possible to decentralize and to shift to production that is different from traditional production.
As regards technology, I had a rather interesting experience a couple of months ago. I have two young people from Moncton who went to do a practicum in Montreal in 3-D animation technology. At the NFB, we think that is the way of the future, because there are currently some 30 3-D productions. We hope that the NFB and its partners will be able to become an interesting hub for developing this new technology that could be used in theatres. Within five years we think that TVs will be equipped to broadcast in 3-D.
We think that there is room for young Acadians to be at the heart of this development. I would invite you to see our 3-D film that will be shown in Quebec City during the 400th anniversary celebrations at the Place Royale interpretation centre. It requires glasses like IMAX technology. I think it is a very good film and we hope to continue this type of experience here in the regions.
We hope that the new technologies and new platforms will enable us to easily decentralize. And we think that the large institutions of the day, be they broadcasters or not, often have buildings that are this high, but we think that things could be extended more horizontally, rather than vertically, with all of the technological resources we have available to us today. So there you go, I hope that I have not taken up too much time.
Senator Corbin: There are a lot of issues to discuss. I was looking at Ms. Leblanc's map. You say that you cover the area between Pointe-Verte and Val Doucet.
Ms. Leblanc: And Saint-Sauveur.
Senator Corbin: So a division starts there, and what we call the Acadian Peninsula as such has its own cultural association?
Ms. Leblanc: That is correct.
Senator Corbin: You do not cover the Shippagan, Caraquet part?
Ms. Leblanc: There are cultural societies in Shippagan, Caraquet, Néguac and Tracadie-Sheila. So there are four in the Acadian Peninsula. Our territory is large. Campbellton has one as well.
Senator Corbin: You work together I assume.
Ms. Leblanc: Yes.
Senator Corbin: You meet quite often. So your biggest problem, if I understand correctly, is funding.
Ms. Leblanc: Yes.
Senator Corbin: Do you also receive funding from individuals?
Ms. Leblanc: In terms of individuals, we recruit members. We collect annual dues. It is not much. We are talking about $10. We have approximately 400 members. It varies between 400 and 600 members per year.
Senator Corbin: And what does that enable you to do?
Ms. Leblanc: That enables us to send out small brochures like this one to our members and we also distribute them in the region. Then with the project, we obtained an amount from Cultural Spaces Canada that enabled us to open our doors. We are now focusing to a much larger degree on investment companies. We approached the Fédération des Caisses populaires acadiennes. Nothing has been confirmed, but there would appear to be considerable interest.
There is a lot of work to do in the field. We are in Bathurst, but as I said, the municipalities are rather small. Municipal budgets are limited, so quite often, it is quite difficult to obtain funding because they must also look out for their municipality. The donations may be minimal, but they do not have the means to provide substantial amounts.
Senator Corbin: Thank you. Your cultural activities undoubtedly add some grist to the mill in terms of revenues?
Ms. Leblanc: Yes. Per year, I would say we have a budget of approximately $100,000.
Senator Corbin: How much?
Ms. Leblanc: It is approximately $100,000.
Senator Corbin: $100,000?
Ms. Leblanc: Yes, that is correct. So we have no choice but to be productive. I must also say that I am happy Mr. Turgeon is here today, because in terms of cinema, the Festival international du cinéma francophone en Acadie is presented in Bathurst, because there is a theatre in Bathurst. The problem is that there are no films shown in French in the theatre. And there are five. We have tried everything imaginable to show films in French, and it does not work. So for the past three years, we have been associated with the FICFA.
Senator Corbin: What is the FICFA?
Ms. Leblanc: It is the Festival international de cinéma francophone en Acadie. It is a festival that takes place in Moncton, but that comes to the regions, and once a year we have an opportunity to see international films at home. With the theatre at the college, we want to develop the e-cinema concept. We were not ready last year, but now we are.
Senator Corbin: I have always considered it important for all levels of government to get involved in supporting the country's cultural life, be it at the local, regional, or national level and even for international activities, because that does potentially contribute to developing our identity as Canadians. You mentioned Heritage Canada's paltry contribution. In the past, the committee, when I had the honour and pleasure of chairing it, heard evidence to the effect that there is sometimes a long delay between the time a funding application goes in and the moment when the cheque arrives in the mail. It does not only take days and weeks, but months and months, and by the time you receive the cheque, you are already on the verge of running an operational deficit. Has that been your experience?
Ms. Leblanc: Yes. Our fiscal year ended at the end of March, and as I was saying, the funding is broken down into five payments. If we were talking about a seven-figure amount, then 20 per cent would not be that bad, but when you are talking about $27,000 and it is broken down into five payments, we do the best we can. And as regards funding as such, what happens is that it causes problems for us, especially for our large programs. We must adjust to their criteria, and not the opposite. Sometimes, we do not really meet the criteria, but to have access to Cultural Spaces, we had to manage a theatre. So the community college handed over management of that theatre. Now there is a management committee to look after it. Otherwise, we would not have received funds from Cultural Spaces Canada. First of all, your main work had to be broadcasting. So we have to realign ourselves to meet the program criteria and most times, it does not meet our needs. Perhaps elsewhere in Canada, it meets their needs, but here in terms of programs, it can take a year. Another example: we had to buy equipment before receiving the funds, so we signed papers at the Caisse and got loans. Now we have lines of credit, because the final payment for our year which just ended at the end of March was posted this week. So that is how it works, and now it is June. It is very difficult to plan for the long term, but under these programs, we are being asked to do long-term planning.
In New Brunswick the existing programs are improvement programs. For those programs, people can receive $5,000, but this only occurs once a year. There are other programs where we do not meet the criteria.
Senator Corbin: As concerns the representatives, and I do not want to take up all the time, but I would like to get to the bottom of this question; Canadian Heritage has representatives here in the province, or rather, in the Atlantic region.
Ms. Leblanc: Yes, in Moncton.
Senator Corbin: Do you consider their collaboration exemplary? Because what you are telling us is that there are certain stumbling blocks. I am trying to find out where the problem lies specifically. So it is not with the representatives.
Ms. Leblanc: Not at all.
Senator Corbin: Is it with Canadian Heritage?
Ms. Leblanc: No, not at all. Because when we submitted certain applications, we were sometimes told, "Oh, well, this program, try the other program.'' Ms. Deborah Robichaud and Jean-Claude Leblanc really helped me out. As concerns collaboration, they do their job, but when there are written applications to be submitted and forms, they must also follow those criteria. They help us out as best they can, but we also had to call on project coordinators who are more used to working in the area of international development to obtain funding in the amount of 2, 3 or $4 million. Even they cannot believe the requirements on these forms for organizations such as ours. That is what they tell us.
Senator Corbin: I would like to make a comment concerning the National Film Board, Mr. Turgeon. I know Rodolphe Caron well, in fact I got to know him when he was fairly young. You say that he is from Edmundston, but he is actually from Caron Brook.
Mr. Turgeon: I do not know that place.
Senator Corbin: Caron Brook is close to Lac Baker above Edmundston. And when I met him as a young man he always astonished me. He was convinced that he would succeed in his field. He showed a great deal of talent and his works prove that he was right to believe in his talent. I would also like to say that when I was a member of the House of Commons, I spoke out in favour of keeping the NFB office in Moncton open. And we succeeded. I believe in the NFB's mission, and I am disappointed to learn that you were forced to tighten your belt to that extent. I think that this committee could study this issue more closely and make recommendations in accordance with what Mr. Turgeon told us. Because there is a great deal of talent in Acadia and we need to support that talent.
Mr. Turgeon: Rodolphe will be bringing out a film about a well-known sculptor from Acadia, Marie-Hélène Allain, as part of the FICFA. This film will be screened at the festival and we also hope to have it picked up by the mainstream film network. We want this film to be seen throughout Acadia.
The Chair: I would like to add to what my colleague, Senator Corbin, said about what happens within the departments and the cheques that you receive and the applications you submit. Unfortunately, when Senator Corbin was chair, this situation was the same as it is now, in 2008. So something needs to change concerning the structure. We are well aware of what is happening. Everyone tells us, so I just wanted to assure you that the committee is aware of the problem. I now turn the floor over to Senator Champagne, deputy chair of our committee.
Senator Champagne: Mr. Turgeon, you told us that you help provide digital equipment to studios throughout your region. If I understood correctly, you also have new editing equipment in your studios. Do you ever invest in a film made by a director in your region by saying, "Well, our contribution will be to provide you with the editing equipment in our studios.'' Is that how it works?
Mr. Turgeon: Often. For many projects, we provide only technical support, and for others we provide financial and technical support. We have a specific program which is called Aide au cinéma indépendant canadien, or ACIC, which provides assistance with technical services. You are asking me whether a filmmaker could come to see me with a film he has made and edit it in our studios?
Senator Champagne: Yes.
Mr. Turgeon: No problem. We do that every day.
Senator Champagne: So this is part of assistance that you would provide free of charge?
Mr. Turgeon: No, absolutely not. That is not part of our investment.
Senator Champagne: This is an aspect of film production that is extremely problematic for our young filmmakers, regardless of where they live in Canada, because the NFB receives the best equipment and provides services free of charge, whereas there are young private sector investors who would like to do the same thing, but they would also like to be paid. So they have the impression that a crown corporation such as the NFB that receives everything is depriving the private sector of its livelihood.
Mr. Turgeon: Ms. Champagne, the equipment costs $5,000 or $6,000. We are not talking about equipment that is worth $200,000 or $300,000.
Senator Champagne: Oh yes. If you work with high definition, it is quite expensive.
Mr. Turgeon: I do not have the equipment to do high definition. That is left to the private sector. What I can do is, when people have a documentary, I can help them. I have a station and a Final Cut Pro. This equipment is not very expensive. I do not want to compete with the private sector, that is not my goal. On the contrary, I think that there used to be many services that were contracted out, such as sound mixing. This was done at the NFB studio in Montreal. Here in Moncton, we provided assistance to a small sound studio called Révoluson. Now, rather than having the productions edited in Montreal free of charge, I encourage the sound studio that we developed in the private sector in Moncton.
Senator Champagne: Everyone in the private industry is very grateful to you. What I think is that, at least in this region of the country, if young filmmakers need help, you will give them help, but without taking business away from people who have invested several million dollars.
Mr. Turgeon: And I have cameras that are worth $3,000 or $4,000 that they can work and have fun with. The Final Cut Pro unit costs between $5,000 and $6,000. These are toys rather than high-definition equipment.
Senator Champagne: If, for example, the total grant you were to receive was $50,000 or less, and you did not have the problem of receiving it in five installments, do you not think that the best suggestion to make would be to ask them to write you a cheque? It seems to me that that would be smarter and above all, more economical. Would that help you?
Ms. Leblanc: Yes. This would be a big step forward. And at the same time I am speaking on behalf of the 13 organizations that share the same fate as us.
Senator Champagne: I think that, with my colleagues, we will be able to commit ourselves to making the recommendation.
Senator Losier-Cool: Good day to both of you and thank you. Ms. Leblanc, you said that the cultural society has been around for 35 years. I remember when it started, I remember Rhéal Roussel and Father Zoël Saulnier.
Ms. Leblanc: That is right.
Senator Losier-Cool: Have you been there for many years?
Ms. Leblanc: For 18 years.
Senator Losier-Cool: Have you always had continuous, growing support? As for funding, does that depend on wallets or the economy?
Ms. Leblanc: During the first years, the figure was around $60,000, then it was reduced to $40,000, to $35,000, and now the amount is $27,000. This amount has not changed in four years. All cultural organizations are in the same boat as well.
Senator Losier-Cool: I think that it has been pointed out clearly that the funding is inadequate if we truly want to develop culture, a policy of culture. I was moved earlier by the two mayors, and particularly by Mr. Brunet who talked about the fact that we give a great deal of money to sports. We support sports activities at a very young age for children and parents get involved in all kinds of sports activities. Have you had that kind of support for cultural activities? Are cultural activities doing well in the region?
Ms. Leblanc: Things are going well. We do what we can with the money we have and the help from volunteers. But I must tell you that there are some volunteers who have been there for a very long time, even before I came, and they do not give up. These people include Jacques Ouellet and company who did the preparations for the grand opening of our room at the community college.
But generally speaking, I would say yes. But I must say that we have found it a little bit more difficult this year because with everything that occurred this winter, there has really been a drop-off. People were very saddened by this situation. I see that things are starting to turn around. We fill our rooms to anywhere from 75 to 80 per cent capacity, which is good. The movie theatre, the FICFA, has had some very good numbers over the past two years; the FICFA follows us and really checks attendance levels and we have nevertheless managed to attract more people here than elsewhere. But we need to have places to do this. As I was saying to you, the movie room does not meet our requirements and so we have to find another location. So, "Okay, if you do not open the door to us, we will go elsewhere.'' And that is what happened. In a room with 150 seats, we have already sold out for Jean-François Breau. We are going to be doing other activities: book launches, and we are also talking about holding an exhibition of paintings done by student artists. The interest for sports is a reality. It must be said that Bathurst is a sports town because most of the municipal counsellors are sports fans. I have nothing against sports, but when you talk about the K.C. Irving Regional Centre, for years, it has all been about the Titans' hockey games and minor hockey.
This does not work for cultural events and they have had to cancel certain activities. I feel that this building is not being used to its full potential. At the start of construction, we were shown around this room and they asked for ideas, but they did not follow up on them. Now it is a banquet room. It is not a good room for activities. So we looked everywhere. Before deciding on a small room, we did look at everything that was going on around. With the arrival of Ms. Anne-Marie Gammon, who will be sitting on the Bathurst municipal council, we will perhaps receive help. She is the only person who has mentioned culture when she ran for office. So I think that we will have an ally here in Bathurst.
Senator Losier-Cool: Because it must be said that there is a very modern cultural centre in Caraquet.
Ms. Leblanc: Yes.
Senator Losier-Cool: I do not know, the population in Bathurst is greater. And you also mentioned burn-out, which is a term often used when referring to volunteer work. What would you do within a national cultural policy? I would ask both witnesses to respond, and this would be my last question.
Ms. Leblanc: We met with many people. I was at several forums and round-table discussions, we met with people from Manitoba. And when we got together, very often, we realized our problems were similar, but perhaps not on a similar scale. When we tell them what we get, sometimes they receive more, but they ask for more as well, whereas given what we receive, we do miracles. So in terms of the cultural policy, I think we have to start at the base and I think the base would be municipalities. Here, there is no cultural policy in municipalities. We can ask for whatever we want at the national level, but I think we have to start at the municipal level, because we need their support when we apply. If you are talking about Caraquet, there are many people who know the mayor, Antoine Landry, and things are moving there. Moreover, there are major conferences going on today in both Caraquet and Bathurst. These people are passionate, at the municipal, provincial and federal level. We really need that support.
Ms. Leblanc: I think it should start there, and then —
Senator Losier-Cool: You used Senator Lapierre's words. Senator Lapierre said: "It takes passion. It is passion, you need people to be passionate.''
Ms. Leblanc: Yes, that is right.
Mr. Turgeon: When it comes to cultural policy, I think it would be wise to consult the report of the États généraux de la culture which was held last year in Caraquet, and touched on almost all aspects of cultural life. There were recommendations in the report like that which Ms. Leblanc just made, to get people involved at the grassroots level, and to start at the beginning. It is a document which I believe could be beneficial to everyone.
Senator Losier-Cool: I think that we heard from witnesses to that effect, they told us about the report.
Mr. Turgeon: I just wanted to add one small aspect that I did not address in my presentation, but which was very useful for us in our cultural development work, the initiatives related to the interdepartmental partnership with official language communities. Be it through Radio-Canada, the Arts Council, the National Film Board or Telefilms, a number of initiatives have succeeded thanks to this program which was renewed for a final time this year. We would like it to continue, and we can support this request set out in the annual report regarding the many activities we have been able to carry out thanks to this program.
The Chair: So, it would be important, to have PICLO renewed?
Mr. Turgeon: Yes, very useful.
Senator Losier-Cool: What is happening with the PICLO at this point?
Is this the final year?
Mr. Turgeon: Yes.
Senator Corbin: Ms. Leblanc, you said that at the Cultural Centre in Bathurst, whenever there were activities, it was a failure.
Ms. Leblanc: That is the K.C. Irving Regional Centre.
Senator Corbin: Yes. You mentioned that the cultural events that were held there were not particularly successful.
Ms. Leblanc: No.
Senator Corbin: Was that for all linguistic groups and languages?
Ms. Leblanc: Yes.
Senator Corbin: Only the francophones?
Ms. Leblanc: No. I should say that the francophones had an opening event because the francophone side had been forgotten, so the Club Richelieu de Bathurst and ourselves worked together to have an event that would highlight the opening of this centre, and it was filled to capacity. So here, in the region, it is the francophones, the Acadian community, that get involved when we want to organize activities. This is not a passive process. I remember that when I was about 15 or 16 years old we had the Bathurst Community Band in Bathurst, where there was the TNB, the Theatre New Brunswick. Theatre New Brunswick no longer exists in Bathurst. The Bathurst Community Concert no longer exists.
There are many multicultural committees, but in terms of activities, they are the target group. They will organize suppers and things like that, but when there is an opening, when we want to put on an event that must be prepared, there is a group that we can reach and we will manage to fill the room. However, when there are other activities — as I was telling you there were cancelled concerts — it is then very difficult to start over. People say: "Well, if it did not work the first time...'' I think that there is a lack of organization at the cultural level here. Whatever show it might be, it has to be organized and we have to find the people who are going to do it and who know what they are doing. This is unfortunate because it is very difficult to put on shows after so many failures. So we work on a very small scale, and that is much less costly. We cannot, as a cultural society, take on the responsibility of a concert in that place.
Senator Murray: I get the impression, after having read the newspapers yesterday and today, that cultural activities are very important to the francophone schools of this region, much more important than perhaps in the other schools that I am familiar with.
For example, I read in the Acadie Nouvelle that the music groups from Nepisiguit high school, from your Nepisiguit, performed recently at MusicFest Canada, in Ottawa. I read that Harmusique (44 members) and Népijazz (16 members) from Nepisiguit high school were the only groups representing your province at this music festival. It was well worth the trip because these young musicians shone, and brought back two silver medals and one gold medal in the sight- reading category — that is, for playing a piece that they only saw five minutes before performing it. That is very impressive.
Ms. Leblanc: That is the Nepisiguit high school and the teacher is Carmelle Valotaire. Carmelle invests a lot of time and preparation. This group has been well-known for several years.
Senator Murray: Yes, there is a Carmelle Valotaire.
Ms. Leblanc: Yes, because our offices are at Nepisiguit high school and we work closely with those people.
Senator Murray: They say that some of them will be leaving Nepisiguit high school this year to go on to higher studies. Allain Arseneau, 17 years old, is going to the music program at Moncton University. It also says that in Dalhousie, 14 singers from the ages of 5 to 14 years old have recorded a mini-album of five songs. The title of the album is "Sauver l'environnement, j'apprends à le faire.'' One hundred copies were for sale. The school was given an $18,000 grant from the Innovation and Education Fund from the Ministry of Education.
Ms. Leblanc: I must say, Senator Murray, that for two years now, community organizers have been hired within the schools.
Senator Murray: Are you involved in that?
Ms. Leblanc: This year there is a cultural organizer in the high school.
Senator Murray: Yes.
Ms. Leblanc: That school was chosen because this affects students from all over the region. This is a high school with more than 1,000 students. But in the smaller schools that you are talking about, such as Dalhousie and those regions, the community organizers have been a huge help because they have injected more life into the schools. I live in the small village of Robertville and there have been some very interesting projects in that village.
Senator Murray: That must be encouraging for you.
Ms. Leblanc: Yes. We received calls and in fact, there is currently a demand for film.
Senator Murray: I cannot but mention Saint-Joseph de Madawaska, Senator Corbin: The students in Saint-Joseph de Madawaska School made a communal effort to put on the musical, Little Orphan Annie. The teacher, Christine Albert-Aucoin said that they translated all the dialogue and all the songs from the 1982 movie. The amount of work put in by all the participants was phenomenal. One student, Véronique Babineau, translated all the songs and was also actively involved in the choreography work. That says something about how important cultural activities are in your schools.
Ms. Leblanc: Yes. It requires considerable participation. Ms. Valotaire, to use her as an example, does a lot of volunteer work on top of teaching on weekends. She organizes end-of-year concerts, and she does this for the students. The theatre is also very important at Nepisiguit High School.
Senator Murray: Yes.
Ms. Leblanc: At also Petit-Rocher.
Senator Murray: That is the future, isn't it?
Ms. Leblanc: Yes, this involvement, and involvement on the part of parents. We are mostly retired teachers.
Senator Murray: Yes.
Ms. Leblanc: Take, for example, Mr. Jean-Maurice Mallet, who is a music teacher who is still involved and who helps Ms. Valotaire and also Mr. Bertier Bérubé. So people of all ages are involved. Former teachers and students will be involved handing out diplomas at the end of June.
Senator Murray: You spoke about film and a demand for film. Mr. Turgeon, what do you have to say?
Mr. Turgeon: Yes. And that is part of the development project for the next few years. We hope that there will be a film network throughout Acadia.
Senator Murray: And in the schools?
Mr. Turgeon: We have been working with communities centres, which could attract people from the schools.
Senator Murray: Are you talking about school community centres such as they have in Fredericton and Saint-Jean?
Mr. Turgeon: No.
Senator Murray: This is something else?
Mr. Turgeon: The community centres. The example I can give you is Bathurst. With respect to the theatre in Bouctouche, we work with the cultural society, who decided on the program with us and who found us a small room. In Caraquet, we work with the cultural centre that was mentioned earlier. In Edmundston, we have been involved with the public library, in Kedgwick, with the Société culturelle des Hauts Plateaux, and in Moncton with the university. So we have not focused on high schools as such. We have not done that yet, but that could be another interesting area of development; it just has not been our current focus.
Senator Losier-Cool: Is that for showing films?
Mr. Turgeon: Yes, showing films. However, it can be done with the server, the people, if there are producers there. It works both ways. It does not only come from Montreal.
Senator Losier-Cool: Are French films shown at the Bathurst theatre on rue Sainte-Anne?
Ms. Leblanc: We tried, we truly tried. That is why we are very happy. We spoke with the NFB and also with the FICFA, and this year will be our third. We started with two days, and now we are at four. Now we would like to have a full week and go into the regions. We would like to be in Bathurst for five days and two days in the schools with films that are more focused on youth.
Senator Losier-Cool: Is there no demand for French films here?
Ms. Leblanc: There is a huge demand, however with respect to the SAANB, we were told a room was being reserved, room number five, the smallest. Last year, room number five was reserved but there were so many people that we were moved into a bigger one. We said: "There you go.'' That is what we answer when they say: "No, French films will not work.'' We are not talking about translated films, because sometimes English films are only translated three months later, so we go to see the film in English. But no, we do not know what is happening. I mean, we try, we try, and we even tried in Caraquet with Louise Blanchard. We were willing to let them give us the program and we would do it there. We tried at Nepisiguit School, and it did not work because of equipment issues. However, in that case, they could probably solve the problem.
Mr. Turgeon: Let me just take a moment. French film distributors in Acadia do not exist, and theatre owners are linked up to Quebec distributors who do not see a big enough market, so there is a problem. Apparently in Moncton, there are very few French films shown except at the university, whereas the commercial theatres may show a blockbuster and be very successful, but this is rare. So that is also a problem.
Senator Losier-Cool: It is strange because the Festival international de films français is a success; people go.
Mr. Turgeon: And after, it is over.
Ms. Leblanc: It is international. These are films that people will go and see —
Senator Losier-Cool: Very good French films.
Ms. Leblanc: Very good. We had about 80 people, which is very good for cinema where people are trying out the experience, and so we would like to do a week. I can tell you that if we had some other venue, we would be very happy because this does cost us money. We have a sponsor for all our film nights.
Mr. Turgeon: I think that film will provide enormous development potential.
Ms. Leblanc: Because I think that there is some awareness. There are even people from Bathurst going to Caraquet. Even with respect to the FICFA, when they were not here, some went to Miramichi. The demand is there. People eat up films here. Personally, I hope that we will be able to show this series because it is very interesting. I congratulate you because this is one of the more interesting ideas.
Mr. Turgeon: We will present the program we established for two periods. We have digital cinema presentations and then I also have the repertoire of everything the Acadia Studio has produced. I did not want to come here with 200 pages of documents, but if you need to know what we have been doing in terms of film production since the start, we have all that information.
The Chair: Ms. Leblanc, I have a question for you.
Mr. Turgeon: Some of you have the program for the first part and others have the second season's program.
The Chair: No problem. Clearly, the cultural sector in New Brunswick is extremely active. You have associations and groups. You Acadians are filled with a great deal of talent, creativity and passion. At least that is my impression. I am from Manitoba, and I am often jealous of all that passion and everything that is happening here.
From one end of New Brunswick to the other, you have associations, committees, and groups operating with a little bit of money here and there. Is there any structure or board or anything here in New Brunswick that would allow you to come together a little bit more and ensure that things can continue to develop, with support, or are you each working in you own space, municipality, village?
Ms. Leblanc: We have a provincial association. And there are 13 cultural groups.
The Chair: Is that throughout New Brunswick?
Ms. Leblanc: Throughout the province. Then, there are three school community centres, in Moncton, Fredericton, Miramichi and Saint John. We are a provincial organization. I presented a brief in January 2008 to the Honourable Hédard Albert. I did so during follow-up consultations to the Estates General on arts and culture.
The Association des municipalités francophones was recently created, and we are starting to identify a group within this association. The Provincial Board is managing various files, but it does so in cooperation with the Association of Municipalities and the Association acadienne des artistes professionnels or the AAAPNB.
The Chair: If you had to make a recommendation to support or build on the work that has already begun, what would it be? Could the committee make a specific recommendation to support all this?
Ms. Leblanc: Well, the budgetary envelopes for the cultural groups are always very small. If there was a permanent presence in the region, this would help because other cultural groups are closing their doors. We all know them. Then, they have to work without any funding. Some of them are open three days a week, others are not open during the summer, or for four months or something like that. This means that it is very difficult to collaborate with each other, but we do get together every three or four months. We are starting to get together on websites or through similar initiatives.
Sometimes someone will ask for help, "Did you get help for the Cultural Spaces project?'' I have received calls asking me, "Can you give me a hand?'' We have no alternative but to work together in this regard in order to try to help everyone. We are there to help others, just as we ask other regions for help too.
The Chair: And by you, you mean the federal government, the Department of Canadian Heritage?
Ms. Leblanc: Yes.
The Chair: Does the province provide some assistance in this regard as well?
Ms. Leblanc: We work on policy. Sometimes we have to go out into the field. I want to see concrete results in the places I go, because we have had a huge number of studies and forums. Now is the time to act, and it would be a good idea for the province to open up its program a little more, because it is quite restricted. All it has are programs for $5,000.
There are no programs. We are trying to target the New Brunswick Arts Foundation, but that is a not-for-profit organization, and it is separate. So we are doing what we can there, but at the provincial level, the department in charge is the Department of Wellness, Culture and Sport. There again, I think sport gets a great deal of the funding.
The Chair: Mr. Turgeon, you did say that you produce francophone Acadian films, did you not?
Mr. Turgeon: I produce exclusively animated documentaries and a few French-language fiction films.
Senator Champagne: Who writes the screenplays for these films, who does the technical work? Does this create any jobs?
Mr. Turgeon: Yes.
The Chair: Right here?
Mr. Turgeon: Yes.
The Chair: How many jobs does it create?
Mr. Turgeon: It depends on the sets. For the small fiction sets we had last year for a short film, there must have been 20 or 25 people involved. There would be three to five people working on a documentary. Generally speaking, they are Acadians, but we do not have a pool of 20 directors for photography, so when the local people are involved in other projects, we have to go outside the region to find staff.
The Chair: Specialists?
Mr. Turgeon: But we always give priority to technicians and artists from the region.
The Chair: I apologize for my ignorance, but I am wondering whether this is comparable to Productions Rivard in Manitoba.
Mr. Turgeon: Yes, I am familiar with that group.
The Chair: Do you know Louis Paquin?
Mr. Turgeon: Yes, I know him very well.
The Chair: Is it comparable?
Mr. Turgeon: Yes, but I would say that Louis Paquin is rather different from what we have in Acadia. We have a larger pool of production companies than they have in the west. There are six or seven active production companies in Acadia at the moment. The majority of the producers in the Association des producteurs francophones du Canada are Acadian.
The Chair: Do the people you hire for these productions require training?
Mr. Turgeon: Yes.
The Chair: How do you go about training them?
Mr. Turgeon: We use mentors, many of whom come from outside the region. That is one of the things we do all the time. Every year, I have workshops on screenplay writing, direction, photography direction and sound editing. We also get new equipment. At the moment, we have some training sessions being offered by a director of photography on HD. Yes, we are very active in this area.
The Chair: Do you have people from the region who can write screenplays? Or do you have to find this talent elsewhere? Do you also provide training in this field?
Mr. Turgeon: Yes, we do provide training in this. I would just like to tell you a little anecdote. At the elementary school level and at the high school level, and not just in Acadia, people make a few mistakes in their writing. Whether we are talking about Montreal, Quebec City or Moncton, there are a few problems in the writing of screenplays. This is a general problem.
The Chair: So, basically, you are involved in training, and you stimulate people's imagination. You provide training in screenplay writing and in the technical aspects of filmmaking — and you do all that in your community?
Mr. Turgeon: We often do this through competitions. For documentaries, there is a competition called: "Tremplin à l'extérieur du Québec'', which involves short documentaries. We do two or three a year, but the workshop on writing is held with six or seven people we choose on the basis of the work they submit. Then they get training in screenplay writing and we pick one to three of them, depending on our production budget.
The Chair: How many people do you work with in a year in this region? Whether we are talking about writing screenplays, production or whatever, how many people do you work with?
Mr. Turgeon: About 50.
The Chair: And in most cases they are young people?
Mr. Turgeon: Yes. I set up a two- or three-year competition here as well. It worked very well. It was to train young people. Not for their first work, but for the second. It is often said that in hockey, the second session is the hardest one. In film it can also happen that the second film may be harder than the first. So the competition was for people who were working on their second or third production.
The Chair: My final question is whether things would be the way they are if there had not been any decentralization, if you did not have Studio Acadie here? Would there be about 50 young Acadians involved in this field?
Mr. Turgeon: No, I think that decentralization is a plus. I am sure of that.
The Chair: For Acadian culture.
Mr. Turgeon: Yes. And we do a great deal of co-production. I would say that independent production is still quite new in Acadia. We are training people in production administration, for example, and we also have training programs in Montreal. We have been doing this for 10 years, and we have some idea how it works, so we can pass on our expertise to independent production companies.
Something that is very important to me personally has to do with the fact that we noticed that there is very little academic film training available in Acadia. The exception is in animation, where there is a program at the community college in Miramichi and Tracadie, in the Tracadie-Sheila area. I have tried to set up some programs to help out with typically Acadian animation in French, because the young people who finish their training in animation automatically go to Toronto, Vancouver or Los Angeles, where they are in great demand. So I am trying to break this pattern. And now, in the last three years, we have produced about 10 animated shorts. We are trying to carry on with that, but it is not always easy. It is difficult, but we are trying to do what we can.
The Chair: Do senators have any other questions? I would like to thank Ms. Leblanc and Mr. Turgeon for accepting our invitation to appear before the committee.
The committee adjourned.