Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Legal and Constitutional Affairs
Issue 1 - Evidence for February 12, 2009
OTTAWA, Thursday, February 12, 2009
The Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs met this day at 11:34 a.m., pursuant to rule 88 of the Rules of the Senate, to organize the activities of the committee.
[English]
Jessica Richardson, Clerk of the Committee: Honourable senators, there is a quorum.
[Translation]
As clerk of the committee, it is my duty to preside over the election of a chair.
[English]
I am ready to receive a motion to that effect.
[Translation]
Senator Nolin: Honourable senators, I nominate our colleague Senator Fraser.
[English]
Ms. Richardson: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Nolin that the Honourable Senator Fraser do take the chair of this committee. Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
[Translation]
Ms. Richardson: I invite the honourable senator to take the chair.
The Chair: Thank you very much; thank you, Senator Nolin.
Senator Nolin: My pleasure.
[English]
Senator Joan Fraser (Chair) in the chair.
The Chair: Thank you all very much. Before we proceed with the agenda I would like to say welcome to those new senators and to those senators who are returning, who were pillars of the committee and who have had other chores and now are back. Those who have served on this committee will all agree that this is traditionally one of the best committees in the Senate — the best we like to think — one of the most interesting, one of the hardest working and in many ways one of the most fun. I shall endeavour to serve you as you deserve to be served.
[Translation]
Let us now proceed. Have you all received the agenda?
[English]
The next item is the election of the deputy chair of the committee.
[Translation]
Are there motions to that effect?
[English]
Senator Milne: I move that Senator Nolin be deputy chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Moved by Senator Milne, seconded by a host of senators, that Senator Nolin be elected deputy chair of this committee. Honourable senators, is it your pleasure to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
[English]
The Chair: Congratulations Senator Nolin.
The third item concerns the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure. Colleagues, you all have a copy of this agenda and some of the motions are quite long. If you are in agreement, we could dispense with reading the motions and just refer to them by their headings. Is there a senator who cares to move that item?
Senator Nolin: So moved.
Senator Milne: I have just been through one meeting where they read every word.
The Chair: We can.
Senator Milne: No, dispense please.
Senator Bryden: Is this the committee that is known as the steering committee?
The Chair: Yes, the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure is known as the steering committee.
Senator Bryden: We are now designating the third member of the steering committee.
The Chair: We are now saying that there shall be a steering committee, which will include the chair, the deputy chair and some other person. It has been habitual not to name that other person because if that other person cannot be there the steering committee can be paralyzed. However, in this case the chair will designate a senator. In the last Parliament, when I had the honour to be the chair, the person I routinely designated was Senator Milne, who was willing to assume the burden and I propose that be the case again in this session of Parliament. Senator Milne is, as you know, a former chair of this committee and knows a great deal about it.
However, it has been customary in most committees not to name in the motion the third member of the steering committee for the reasons that I just outlined.
Senator Bryden: I did not realize that was a standard procedure for committees.
The Chair: It is senator. In every committee on which I have served, and on every steering committee on which I have served, that has been the case.
Senator Bryden: Therefore, it comes down to the chair naming someone.
The Chair: Yes; however, as I have just informed the committee — and I would have done so without your question — the person I propose is Senator Milne.
Senator Bryden: Why do we not just appoint Senator Milne?
The Chair: We do not do it that way because if she becomes sick or is required to go on a trip and I want you to attend, we would have to have a motion in committee.
Senator Bryden: That concerns me. I have only been here for 15 years.
The Chair: Do other colleagues have observations?
Senator Milne: I have just come from another committee where exactly the same thing happened. It is boilerplate. It allows the chair to name someone if the normal person is not around, and I am not saying I am normal most of the time.
Senator Campbell: Senator Bryden, I have sat on both types of committees. On the Aboriginal Peoples Committee, we named the senator.
I agree with this method because this way, the committee is not stifled if the senator becomes ill or a plane is delayed, et cetera. I have been on committees where they have named the chair, deputy chair and one other person.
Senator Bryden: I have been on committees where the third member of the steering committee is named by — just as we have done — the chair, and the deputy chair.
My preference is that we follow some other style. The third member of the steering committee could be named, leaving the opportunity for the chair to name someone else if that person is unable to act.
Senator Campbell: The chair could not because you would have to have a motion. The chair could not usurp that power. You would have to have a meeting and a motion to put someone else on the subcommittee. When you leave it open, while we know that Senator Milne is the designated person, should she be delayed or ill, then the chair — I am sure in concert with the deputy chair — would call and ask one of us to attend the steering committee.
Senator Bryden: That is fine. I guess I am a little paranoid. If it were me and she was not in agreement with me on some issue, I would make sure she did not catch her plane so I could find someone who did agree with me.
Senator Milne: And this happens regularly.
[Translation]
The Chair: Moved by Senator Nolin that the subcommittee be established. Honourable senators, is it your pleasure to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: The motion is carried.
[English]
The fourth item is a motion to print the committee's proceedings. Senator Joyal moves item number 4.
All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
The fifth item concerns the authorization to hold meetings and to print evidence when quorum is not present.
Again, for senators new to these proceedings, it may sound unusual, but it is not. It can happen that not enough senators are present for quorum and witnesses are present. It is only courteous to be able to hear them. However, you will note that the motion authorizes the holding of meetings, the receiving of evidence, and the printing of evidence, but not the holding of votes, which is the protection for the committee. It requires that even under those circumstances, someone from both sides be present. It is basically a courtesy.
The fifth item is moved by Senator Dickson.
Motion five is carried.
The next item concerns the financial report. You have this document, honourable senators, which is a report of what this committee spent in the Second Session of the Thirty-ninth Parliament. This committee was not constituted during the first session of the present Parliament, so there will not be a report on what we spent then, and this is the first occasion we have had to report on what we spent last year.
Senator Campbell: So moved.
The Chair: It is moved by Senator Campbell that this report be adopted.
Senator Joyal: I am seconding because I was in attendance at all of those meetings.
The Chair: It is true. His attendance record is at least 100 per cent, maybe more.
Senator Joyal: I do not want to put forward my attendance record; I just want to say that I can testify that those meetings were not held.
The Chair: All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator Milne: If someone, 25 years from now, is looking back to see the first reports of this committee, they will say this is the Second session of the Thirty-ninth Parliament but what happened to the First Session of the Fortieth Parliament? There may be zeros all the way down, but I ask that the clerk look into giving us a report to fill in the historical gap.
The Chair: I tried to explain, rather lamely, that the committee did not exist in the First Session of the Fortieth Parliament. Not only did it not exist, it did not have a budget and did not spend any money. There is no report to make because we were never authorized to spend any money for us to report that we did not spend.
Senator Milne: That will create some confusion.
The Chair: Yes, and it will be the same for all committees. We might consider inserting a reference to that when we get around to making our first report on this session.
I believe we had a vote to carry this budget.
All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: The next item concerns research staff.
All in favour?
Carried.
Many of you are already familiar with our wonderful Library of Parliament research staff, Jennifer Bird, who seems to get all the difficult assignments, and Carolina Mingarelli who will be working with Jennifer. For new senators, you have no idea how precious our Library of Parliament researchers are, but you will learn.
Senator Milne moves the next item, the authority to commit funds and certify accounts.
All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
The ninth item concerns travel. All in favour.
Carried.
Item number 10 concerns the designation of members travelling on committee business. It is moved by Senator Nolin.
[Translation]
In favour? Against? The motion is carried.
[English]
The next item concerns travelling and living expenses of witnesses.
Senator Campbell: So moved.
The Chair: It is moved by Senator Campbell.
Carried.
Item number 12 concerns electronic media coverage of public meetings.
Senator Watt: So moved.
The Chair: Moved by Senator Watt. All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Opposed? Abstentions? Carried.
I should draw to your attention, colleagues, that yesterday the Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate tabled a notice of motion for a number of items that would affect the routine operation of committees. As I recall, electronic and television coverage were a part of those motions. We have copies of those motions that he will move. They are good motions and will simplify and lessen the burden of chamber business when we want to do things, but since they have not yet been voted on, they do not affect us. However, when they carry, they will.
The next item concerns our time slot for regular meetings. The time has not changed, and it is proposed we meet on Wednesdays when the Senate rises, which is to say at four o'clock, now that that motion is carried, and run until six o'clock in this room. Normally we do allow a small grace period between the point when the Senate rises and the time the gavel comes down here, but it is not a long period. Really, the committee should get going as soon as the Senate has risen. We will also sit on Thursdays from 10:30 a.m. until 12:30 p.m. in this room.
Is there any other business?
Senator Joyal: Concerning the financial report, we have adopted the report but we have not authorized you to table it in the Senate.
The Chair: What a good idea.
Senator Joyal: Normally when we adopt a report there is also a motion to table the report at the next sitting of the Senate.
The Chair: Can I ask you for such a motion?
Senator Joyal: Of course. It is to be sure that we are acting. We are the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs and we have to act.
The Chair: Thank you. You are entirely correct.
Senator Joyal: I move that you table the report at the next sitting of the Senate.
The Chair: All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried. I thank you very much Senator Joyal.
I propose that we have a very short in camera session right now to discuss future business of the committee because there is one notice of motion that, if the committee were to approve, would be appropriate to give, but I need to explain that. We will now go in camera.
(The committee continued in camera.)
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(The committee resumed in public.)
The Chair: Do I need a motion for the order of reference?
Ms. Richardson: Yes.
The Chair: Let me take them in order. First, the one have you before you, as corrected by Senator Nolin refers to ``30 juin 2009.''
Senator Milne: So moved.
The Chair: Senator Milne has moved. All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Honourable senators, we need a motion for the required statutory review of the DNA Identification Act, Statutes of Canada, 1998, chapter 37, section 13.
Would you make a motion to entrust the chair, the steering committee and the clerk to draft the necessary motion which would be brought before the Senate?
Senator Joyal: I so move.
The Chair: All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried. We will try to do that today; and if not, it will go in on the first day we return.
Senator Wallace: I want to thank honourable senators for the warm greeting to this committee and in my arrival at the Senate. I am more than a little bit pleased to be here. I am happy to have been selected as a member of this committee, and I am anxious to make a meaningful contribution. I am a happy person today.
The Chair: That is wonderful.
Senator Joyal: The only problem, Senator Wallace, is there is a bar exam at the end of the year.
Senator Wallace: I thought those years were behind me.
The Chair: Would the steering committee stay behind for two minutes, please.
The committee adjourned.