Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 13 - Evidence - Meeting of November 23, 2009
OTTAWA, Monday, November 23, 2009
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day at 5:16 p.m. to study the application of the Official Languages Act and Regulations and directives made under it, within those institutions subject to the act. Topic: Study on Part VII and other issues.
Senator Andrée Champagne (Deputy Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Senators, I see we have a quorum. I therefore call the meeting to order. Welcome to the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages. My name is Andrée Champagne; I am a senator from Quebec and Deputy Chair of the committee.
Before introducing the witnesses for this evening's meeting, I would like to introduce the committee members who are here today.
To my right, Senator Losier-Cool, from New Brunswick; Senator Tardif, from Alberta; Senator Pépin, from Quebec; and Senator Jaffer, from British Columbia.
To my left, Senator Seidman, from Quebec; Senator Fortin-Duplessis, from Quebec; and Senator Mockler, from New Brunswick.
The committee is now studying the current state of affairs regarding Part VII of the Official Languages Act, and more specifically the measures taken by federal institutions in that regard.
In the first part of the meeting, we will hear from representatives of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police: Chief Superintendent Alain Tousignant, Director General, Learning and Development; Pat Teolis, Acting Assistant Commissioner, Protective Policing Branch; and Nathalie Ferreira, Director, Directorate of Official Languages. The committee members thank you for accepting their invitation today.
Mr. Tousignant, I now give you the floor, and I am sure that senators will have questions for you afterwards.
[English]
Chief Superintendent Alain Tousignant, Director General, Learning and Development, Royal Canadian Mounted Police: Thank you for inviting the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to respond to your questions today. As mentioned, I am Chief Superintendent Alain Tousignant. I am representing the Chief Human Resources Officer for the RCMP, Deputy Commissioner Peter D. Martin, who could not be here today. I would also like to introduce my colleagues who are with me, Pat Teolis, who is responsible for major events and protective services and who will provide specific information related to the security of the Vancouver 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games; and Nathalie Ferreira, Director of Official Languages at the RCMP, who will answer your questions relating to Part VII of the Official Languages Act.
I would like to begin by saying that the RCMP strives to remain a role model in implementing and respecting all laws — including the Official Languages Act — that honours our national heritage and our unique linguistic identity. We endeavour to remain an exemplary establishment that respects our official-language rights and obligations as per the requirements of the Official Languages Act and regulations.
[Translation]
When Bill S-3 came into effect, the RCMP invested great efforts into making the necessary adjustments to fulfil its obligations under the Official Languages Act, just as we would with any other law that we are mandated to respect and enforce.
Although the RCMP is not amongst the designated federal institutions who must submit an official accountability report to Canadian Heritage, it insists on doing so as proof of its commitment towards the implementation of Part VII of the Official Languages Act.
The RCMP is dedicated to search out and put in place positive measures to shoulder the government's commitment with respect to the implementation of articles 41 and 42 of this legislation. We are fully engaged in doing what is necessary to the best of our ability and within our scope to enhance the vitality of English and French Linguistic Minority Communities in Canada and foster the full recognition and use of both official languages in Canadian society.
[English]
In order to do so, the RCMP raised the visibility and importance of this piece of legislation by doing the following. Part VII became a section in itself within the Directorate of Official Languages and a national coordinator position was created to lead and oversee its implementation and promotion across the organization.
Initiatives geared at the implementation and promotion of Part VII became an integral component of the RCMP official languages action plan for 2007-10.
In January 2008, Part VII of the Official Languages Act was added to the internal policy on official languages in the RCMP Administrative Manual to further sensitize RCMP employees to the need to put in place initiatives that promote both linguistic duality and the development of official-language minority communities.
[Translation]
Under the technical umbrella and guidance of the National Coordinator for Part VII, Regional Coordinators are also involved in the implementation of this portion of legislation, which is also integrated in their regional Official Languages Action Plan.
Official Languages Coordinators across the RCMP are actively involved with official languages minority communities and take part in various interdepartmental committees that aim at promoting their development and fostering the full recognition and use of English and French in Canadian society.
As part of its ongoing awareness and education campaign entitled "Our Heritage, Our Advantage/Un heritage à notre avantage," the RCMP continues to develop and distribute products and tools force-wide to educate its personnel on their official languages rights and obligations. Part VII is an integral component of this campaign.
Last but not least, we continue to recruit among all communities that form our Canadian mosaic, including, of course, our official languages minority communities. In our opinion, this is a winning situation for all involved. Not only does this increase and enrich the force's capacity with a wide array of skills, it also provides employment opportunity and career development for all Canadian citizens who would like to join Canada's police force and make a difference in communities across the country.
[English]
In the hundreds of minority communities that we serve day in and day out, proactive and positive measures are taken that underline the government's requirements and commitment. The RCMP continues to encourage its personnel to go beyond its obligations as set out in the Official Languages Act and the regulations. We recognize the importance and value of our bilingual identity and not only continue our efforts to preserve it but also promote it as an operational asset. Languages, which open the door to communication, can be the most effective and valuable tool towards the achievement of the greater good.
This motion, along with the intent to serve members of the public in the official language of their choice and to respect linguistic duality, is one of our goals. It is an integral component of our strategic framework, and it is considered not only in everyday law-enforcement functions but also in the planning and delivery of major events, including the upcoming 2010 Winter Games.
[Translation]
Since 2003 when Canada learned it would host the Vancouver 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Games, and that it would be federally mandated by the Covenant of the Government of Canada, the RCMP has been working extensively at preparing security operations for this milestone event. Shortly after the announcement was made, the Vancouver 2010 Integrated Security Unit emerged, uniting partners from the RCMP, Vancouver Police Department, West Vancouver Police Department, the Canadian Forces, as well as a number of other law enforcement partners. The Integrated Security Unit's exclusive mission is to plan for and deliver security operations in support of the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games.
Bilingualism is an operational priority for the RCMP and it is why we fully support the objectives of the Official Languages Act, both during the 2010 Winter Games and in everyday operations. Moreover, we recognize that we are to provide exemplary service to the Canadian and international public we serve and create a work environment that is conducive to the use of both official languages, as required by the Official Languages Act and Regulations.
[English]
Our organization has taken the steps to ensure that the Vancouver 2010 Integrated Security Unit's operations are delivered in Canada's two official languages. To do so, we have identified bilingual resources through internal database searches and by communicating with the RCMP division mobilization coordinators and with our policing partners. Our mobilization strategy has recognized key contributors to a bilingual workforce by including, but not limited to, representatives from Quebec, New Brunswick and Ottawa.
In the months to come, more than 1,600 police personnel from 116 municipal, regional and provincial police services will also be joining the 2010 security workforce. All of our law enforcement personnel have been chosen based on their operational and linguistic skills when deciding who would be deployed and in what capacity.
I would like to note that our security personnel deployments for the 2010 Winter Games balance the need to ensure local police priorities and services are maintained in communities from which police officers have been deployed. Every effort will be made to minimize the effect the 2010 Winter Games will have on the front-line service delivery, including the provision of services in French or English.
[Translation]
At the end of the process of identifying deployable resources, we were able to provide a law enforcement workforce consisting of approximately 20 per cent of bilingual officers. Furthermore, our planning has ensured that there will be a well-balanced distribution of bilingual members within all venues and amongst the venue operations shifts, in order to provide security services in both official languages. Our bilingual personnel will also be assigned at key high traffic and public interaction areas such as pedestrian and vehicle screening locations and venue entrances.
The Vancouver 2010 Integrated Security Unit has also established guidelines that will have bilingual RCMP or other police agency members assigned to these areas in order to provide services in either of Canada's official languages as chosen by the members of the public for all matters.
Operational realities for the games have also led the RCMP to hire 5,000 private security personnel. Their role will be to provide security screening at the pedestrian entrances to secured venues. Doing so will ensure we can continue to meet our responsibilities in the communities we serve. That being said, providing private security services in both official languages is also key to this organization.
[English]
Our procurement process was done thoroughly. Prior to hiring private security contractors and other contractual service providers for services related to security, we have ensured that they were fully aware of their obligations with respect to official languages and that they were required to hire a complement of people who are able to communicate in both French and English.
Furthermore, we are keeping a strong and continuing commitment to have all of our official administrative and operational documents destined for our employees, as well as our external communications with the public, whether it be on our website or through our media relations, provided in both English and French.
For example, approximately 65 per cent of RCMP spokespersons and media relations officers will be able to communicate with the public and with media during the games in both official languages.
[Translation]
After the games, we will once again demonstrate our accountability to Canada's Official Languages Act by submitting a report to the Official Languages Commissioner as well as the Francophonie International Grand Témoin, whose team will be in attendance during the games and who will be looking at the whole government effort on bilingualism. We have been supporting these initiatives on a proactive basis by continuously providing information and awareness to both review bodies.
We are confident that the security operations during the 2010 Winter Games will balance the needs of operational realities and serving the public in Canada's two official languages. The RCMP will continue its efforts to comply with all its obligations under the Official Languages Act and to further advance and promote Canada's two official languages throughout the entire force. In doing so, our organization will ultimately thrive to secure the best winter games ever as partners in safety, peace and celebration.
[English]
In closing, the RCMP remains fully engaged and committed to complying with the Official Languages Act. In short, our objective is simple: We aim only to employ the right people with the right skill set and linguistic abilities in the right places at the right time. The Canadian public expects and deserves no less.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Thank you very much, Mr. Tousignant. The first question will be asked by Senator Fortin- Duplessis.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: My question may surprise you. You are no doubt aware of the fact that a Vancouver firm was recently hired by the RCMP to recruit young bilingual workers from Ottawa who will be assigned to security and reception duties at the Vancouver Olympic Games. That firm has set up a temporary recruitment centre at the University of Ottawa. However, no room has been made for French in this recruitment campaign at the University of Ottawa.
When the spokesperson for that firm was asked about the recruitment process and the fact that it was in English only, she answered that employees first had to speak and read English in order to perform their duties. A complaint was then filed with the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages.
Why did you ask that firm to do the recruiting?
Nathalie Ferreira, Director, Directorate of Official Languages, Royal Canadian Mounted Police: When the contracts were put in place, we stated that there had to be an orientation and an awareness of the obligations of every third party acting on our behalf. Unfortunately, in the first attempt or recruitment campaign, efforts were perhaps not made as they should have been at the outset.
We rectified the situation as soon as we received word that a complaint had been filed and that there were problems. We contacted the ISU section, which immediately contacted the company to explain their obligations as third parties acting on behalf of the RCMP. They rectified the situation in September with a second recruitment campaign, this time at the Cité collégiale, which was conducted bilingually.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: How many bilingual young people have currently been hired?
Pat Teolis, Acting Assistant Commissioner, Protective Policing Branch, Royal Canadian Mounted Police: We are talking about approximately 610 bilingual employees out of 5,000, approximately 11 per cent for the Olympic Games.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: I will have another question on another topic a little later. I am going to let my colleagues ask their questions.
Senator Tardif: I was pleased to hear you state your commitment and your efforts with regard to implementation of the Official Languages Act. However, when we consider the results, we can wonder what the problem is.
According to the evaluation of the Commissioner of Official Languages, your performance in 2008-09 was very low to average. You got an average mark on management. As for service to the public, Part IV of the act, your mark was average. You got a low mark for language of work. However, your mark for equitable participation was exemplary — it was the only positive result. Your mark for development of official language minority communities and promotion of linguistic duality, Part VII of the act, was average. Your overall mark: average.
The RCMP is also one of the 10 institutions subject to the largest number of complaints filed, and has been in eight of the past nine years.
What is the problem?
Ms. Ferreira: I do not know whether you know how the Commissioner's team proceeds in conducting the performance evaluation. Every year, we have a meeting, then feedback on the previous year's performance, to explain the reasons for their evaluation to us. It is true that we have a lot of work to do and that we have to improve our service to the public, particularly in oral communications. However, we received a perfect mark for active offer by telephone and in written communications.
I would like to note that we have made considerable efforts, and will continue to do so, to make our staff aware of their obligation to provide active offer, to ensure that everything is written and available to the public and that information and services are offered in both official languages. Our efforts are constant.
As for performance and the way we are evaluated, here is what was explained to us. When a federal institution has initiatives in place that are ongoing the following year, it does not necessarily receive a high mark. The assessment remains the same or can decline if they feel that we should have introduced other initiatives.
The problem with an organization of our size is that it is sometimes hard to undertake a cross-country initiative. We are nevertheless continuing our efforts and our commitment remains the same.
Senator Tardif: I would like to go back to this staff question. When you award contracts to third parties or to the public service, do you include language clauses?
Ms. Ferreira: Absolutely. If you take the example of the contract with Contemporary Services Canada, a clause was included to explain how we would discharge our obligations under the act to provide bilingual services where staff and the public require.
The way we go about serving the public in the language of its choice is included in the contract. A clause refers to the obligations of any third party acting on behalf of the RCMP.
Senator Tardif: Do you have any directives from, for example, the Department of Justice or the Treasury Board Secretariat regarding your staff recruitment obligations?
Ms. Ferreira: Of course. All our policies and directives derive from the directives and policies of the Treasury Board Secretariat and central agencies.
Senator Tardif: What percentage of francophones has been identified in the contracts? What is the percentage of francophones allotted by the Treasury Board Secretariat?
Ms. Ferreira: Normally, the percentage of francophones is based on demand. The figure may vary depending on the contract, where it is required. Everything depends on demand. With regard to the Official Languages Act and Regulations, we rely on demand, such as 5 per cent, for example. That is what will be allocated in our contracts.
Senator Tardif: If we take Vancouver as an example, what percentage has been assigned?
Ms. Ferreira: The percentage of the population in Western Canada who speak French or who use French, for example, is approximately 2 per cent. That figure gives you an idea of the population who speak French or who have skills in both official languages.
In British Columbia, the percentage is declining. It is approximately 1.5 per cent, if I am not mistaken. I cannot exactly confirm that percentage, but it is lower.
Senator Tardif: With those figures of two per cent and 1.5 per cent, you feel you are meeting your obligations under the Official Languages Act?
Ms. Ferreira: That is not our percentage. It is the statistical percentage of francophones in Western Canada.
Senator Tardif: You reflect that percentage.
Ms. Ferreira: We reflect more than that percentage
Senator Tardif: In your recruitment?
Ms. Ferreira: Much more.
Senator Tardif: Then what are your statistics for this contract, among others?
Ms. Ferreira: In statistical terms, I can give you a brief overview of all public servants, regular or civilian members, or, if you wish, I can give you a concrete example of our bilingual workforce, of the regular members of the force.
With respect to regular members of the force, if we look at currently occupied positions — I prefer to stick to the people and forces that can offer service, who are actually in the positions and can serve the public in the language of their choice — we are currently talking about a bilingual capability of —
Senator Tardif: To save time, could you perhaps send us that information?
Ms. Ferreira: Of course, but for the moment I can tell you that the percentage of employees who meet the language requirements of their positions is approximately 84 per cent.
Senator Tardif: We are talking about 84 per cent of two per cent?
Ms. Ferreira: You should not confuse matters. The 2 per cent does not pertain to the RCMP. Our bilingual workforce is much greater than two per cent.
Senator Tardif: Then what is the figure? Can you table a sample contract that you submitted to the public service including that language clause?
Ms. Ferreira: Yes, we could send you a copy of the contract with Contemporary Security Canada. It states our language obligations.
With respect to the percentage, as you said, we do not have the exact percentage in those clauses. I know that the initial contract referred to a required percentage of three per cent, strictly for the private service provider. So to meet the language obligations in Contemporary Services Canada's bid, the minimum required percentage was three per cent and the RCMP would provide all the rest. So three per cent was a strict minimum for Contemporary Services Canada, whereas the RCMP would take charge of all the rest.
Mr. Tousignant: We can give you the number of bilingual positions and the number of positions for the bilingual regular members in the country relative to population.
Senator Tardif: Definitely. I was trying to understand how you operate for recruitment, the percentage allocated to francophone recruitment in the various regions of the country.
The Deputy Chair: Those are no doubt figures that we could receive a little later.
[English]
Senator Jaffer: I was very pleased to hear of the efforts that you have made for the 2010 Olympic Winter Games in ensuring that both official languages are represented well in the games. However, I was a little confused on the figures; forgive me for asking again. At one point, I thought you said 65 per cent, and then the assistant commissioner said 11 per cent.
Mr. Tousignant: The 65 per cent figure refers to the media relations people; 65 per cent of them will provide services in both official languages.
Mr. Teolis: I can provide more clarification if you wish. During the games there will be approximately 6,000 police officers. Of those 6,000 police officers, 1,100 are bilingual. The 11 per cent refers to the 5,000 private security people who are being hired. Eleven per cent of those people will be bilingual, and that is approximately 610 people. In addition to that are the military people. I do not have figures as to their bilingualism.
Senator Jaffer: I heard you say that according to the law, you do certain things — I am saying this respectfully; please do not take it the wrong way — and according to the law, you ensure that you provide certain things.
I would like to hear from you — and if not today, through the chair later — how you are creating a culture of bilingualism within your force. I do not think it is only about the law, though of course the law is important.
For example, with drinking and driving, you did an amazing job. You forced us to bring strict laws on punishing people for drinking and driving. I give much credit to your organization. Through the process, you created a culture where now we do not consider it acceptable to drink and drive.
How are you creating a culture that bilingualism exists across the country?
Ms. Ferreira: With respect to the culture, we have launched an awareness and marketing campaign called "Our heritage, our advantage," which in French is "Un heritage à notre avantage." The main objective is to sensitize personnel to their linguistic obligations and their rights, rights as employees and as members of the public, as well as the obligations of the RCMP with respect to the application of the Official Languages Act and the regulations.
It is a question of changing the ideology. We try to not only represent the Official Languages Act and explain it in terms of a law and an obligation but to show that it is an operational asset and an advantage for ourselves and for the Canadian population. The objective is to show the positives in having both languages, using it, if you like, as an arm of force, a tool to better communicate and bring about positive changes.
Senator Jaffer: If a person is unilingual when they join your organization, do you provide training?
Ms. Ferreira: Absolutely. We have recently put in place language training to help unilingual francophone members. We decided to target that linguistic group because we found that a great need existed. We addressed one of our greatest problems. We put in place a pilot project to offer language training throughout the different regions; it would be right after depot, when they are deployed and with their families.
This is an intensive language training program. In the first phase, they are in a language-training classroom where they learn everything they need to know. The second phase is an integrated program with their field coaching, the practical aspect. Therefore, now they are combining the two. It is sort of killing two birds with one stone.
As soon as they are functional in their second language and have attained reasonable linguistic skills to be able to function and to be safe, for themselves, the public and the RCMP, they are released into the field-coaching program and proceed with their career.
Senator Jaffer: What about unilingual anglophones?
Ms. Ferreira: We will be doing that. The first phase was to implement this part of the program. The next phase will be to address the same for our anglophone counterparts.
Senator Jaffer: Can you please let us know when you are doing this for the anglophones, and how many you are training for both programs?
Ms. Ferreira: We still do train anglophone counterparts. Anglophones and francophones have different needs. Unilingual francophones will feel their needs at the beginning of their careers. They need to learn English to advance in the different parts of Canada. If we look at the Canadian reality and the component, although the RCMP is bilingual, we have many more anglophone regions than francophone. Keeping this in mind, our greater need was to take care of the francophones because their need is felt at the beginning of their career. Once they have acquired their English skills, they move on, and they are bilingual.
The need for bilingualism for anglophones is felt a little more towards the midpoint of their career. Many of them take language training initially, but as they move on in their careers, the need becomes greater to ascend to different key positions of authority and management.
We still provide language training to both anglophone and francophone members currently. The pilot project I was talking about is just a new initiative that we have put in place, but we do provide equal opportunities of training for both groups.
Senator Jaffer: What is the total number of RCMP officers that you have across the country? If you do not have that number now, you can provide it.
Mr. Tousignant: We could provide a more exact number when we provide all the statistics. It is around 19,000 random members.
Senator Jaffer: How many of those members are francophone?
Ms. Ferreira: I may be able to give you an approximate number and confirm it later.
Senator Jaffer: I will make all my requests now. How many members are bilingual? How many members are francophone?
What type of recruitment for the RCMP are you doing within the francophile community? There is a growing francophile community across the country, and I know you do amazing recruitment in my province. I am very proud of the work you do within my province for other minorities; you set an example with the great job you do. I know about other minorities in my province, but I have no idea of the recruitment you do to encourage francophiles to join your organization.
Mr. Tousignant: The same template for recruiting that is used in British Columbia, for example, is used right across the country. As for the exact number of people from, for example, the province of Quebec, who write the exams, I can provide that number. I do not have it with me now.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: I get the impression that unilingual anglophones can be promoted and have a great career at the RCMP without ever learning French, but that unilingual francophones would do well to hurry up and learn English or else they will go nowhere. That is somewhat what you have been explaining since earlier. Is that a perception or simply the truth?
Ms. Ferreira: You have to have a clear understanding of the situation. There are two components. Needs are different for francophones and anglophones. The need to learn a second language is felt at various points in their careers. If you simply look at the trend for francophones, the need to learn English is felt earlier in their career. That is also partly due to the situation in the country.
The Deputy Chair: That is what I was telling you. Francophones are required to learn English, and quickly or else they will go nowhere.
Ms. Ferreira: As for anglophones, they feel the need a little later in their careers. It often happens that francophones rise to higher positions once they have become bilingual. So to say that anglophones will advance in their careers and ultimately succeed is not entirely the situation. The need for francophones to learn the second language is often felt earlier in their careers, whereas for anglophones it is more in mid-career or later. Do you see the distinction?
Mr. Tousignant: I am going to cite my personal example. When I joined the RCMP at the age of 19, I did not speak a word of English. The language training that I received at the start of my career and the fact that I worked in the Western provinces helped me make good progress in my career to my present situation. I think I have had as many opportunities to succeed as others and even that getting my language training very early in my career gave me a lot of help in advancing along my career path at the RCMP.
The Deputy Chair: We all understand that you would not be Chief Superintendent if you did not speak English.
Senator Pépin: This is interesting. In proportional terms, if you take all the employees of the RCMP, how many francophones and anglophones are there?
Ms. Ferreira: We have the figures on all employees here, but they are unfortunately divided into public and other services, but I could send them to you.
Mr. Tousignant: The figures are available; we just have to get them based on your parameters.
Senator Pépin: Do you always take the application of Part VII into account in the decisions you make, even though there can be situations in which that could be more difficult?
Ms. Ferreira: I can give you a concrete example. First of all, Part VII is an integral part of our three-year Action Plan for Official Languages from 2007 to 2010. In addition to that, we are providing Canadian Heritage with a report on the initiatives. We have started drafting a report that is not necessarily official because, as an institution, we are not required to report officially. However, we have decided to do so. We are working closely with Canadian Heritage and reporting on the full range of initiatives that we have undertaken in relation to Part VII and the implementation of sections 41 and 42.
We had a concrete example a few months ago, when we decided to close three detachments in the Atlantic Region. Since that had a serious impact on the surrounding communities, we held consultations. We invited the official language minority communities to take part in those consultations, to ask questions and to share with us any concerns they had with regard to the closing of those attachments, the impact that could have on their community, their businesses and so on. So there were consultative committees, a table where they were invited to submit their questions to us so that we could open up the discussion.
Following that, our national coordinator took part in the process as the representative of Part VII and of the official languages program. She liaised as the RCMP representative.
We also conducted a survey of the communities to ask them for their feedback, their opinion on the consultation, what they had thought of it, with suggestions. That was very well received by them
Senator Pépin: Are there any internal or external barriers making the implementation of your Part VII obligations more difficult and, if so, what are they?
Ms. Ferreira: By the nature of our duties, since we are an entity that deals with protection, security and health, we are nevertheless limited in what we can do as a federal institution with regard to community promotion and development. Unlike certain institutions that can provide direct funding to support community development, we cannot do that. Our institution offers problem-solving services. So we conduct consultations, issue tables, where we meet the communities and take part in collective problem-solving. Exchanges, idea sharing, these are the kinds of initiatives that we can offer. Of course, our recruitment, which is done within the entire Canadian community, also includes recruitment that is conducted in the official language minority communities.
That in turn becomes a benefit for both. We are increasing our strength with a fairly diversified workforce, with fairly comprehensive skills, linguistic and others, and that is also an advantage for the members of those communities because that affords them employment and career advancement opportunities. So we see the matter that way.
Another difficulty that we often encounter is the definition of "positive measures." As you know, this is quite a vague idea, but that is very good because it allows the federal institutions some flexibility in introducing various initiatives. On the other hand, what seems a little more difficult is the interpretation of a "positive measure." For some, what we are doing may be viewed as a "positive measure," whereas, for others, it does not come within the definition of a "positive measure."
I will give you a brief example. In the context of the pilot project that we are conducting for new francophone members, to assist and support our members and their families, we decided to develop kits informing them, when they arrive in their community, where services are, where to go for services in their francophone community in Western Canada or elsewhere and, in Quebec, for the official language anglophone communities. We are producing a directory containing all possible services and we also provide a list of schools and so on, as well as contact points in those communities where families can go if they need anything.
We saw that as a useful initiative since members' families become an integral part of their official language minority community because their spouses, who now belong to a community where the preferred official language is not necessarily their mother tongue, are no longer in the majority. For us, we view their families as members of the official language minority community.
That may not be the case for other agencies or entities. We define them as an integral part of the member, and so this is the member's family and it is therefore up to the RCMP to take care of them, and that does not fall within the framework of a "positive measure." Do you understand?
Senator Pépin: That is somewhat like the families of military members.
Ms. Ferreira: Exactly.
Senator Losier-Cool: Madame partly answered my supplementary question when she talked about what a "positive measure" really is. You also cited the example of the case in which three RCMP positions had to be removed from the Atlantic Region and you conducted a consultation process. Is that consultation process part of your work plan, or is it conducted in response to pressure by the community? Coming from a minority community, I have spent my life exercising pressure, in language matters as well, for bilingual services in New Brunswick.
Ms. Ferreira: I would say that, in this case, it was really an initiative that was taken. I am not aware that there was any pressure or that a request was made to the RCMP; I believe there was enough awareness in the regions. In the Atlantic Region, I know that the coordinator worked in close cooperation with the official language minority communities. She sat on committees and I believe that is how they developed a relationship that enabled them to know that we had to conduct consultations.
Another thing that the RCMP is doing, precisely in order to be proactive rather than reactive, is that our awareness campaign includes awareness among our staff of our Part VII obligations, what "positive measures" we must take and what that means. Also, with Canadian Heritage's help and tools, we developed a brochure explaining the stages of a consultative committee. In it, we explain the steps that must be taken before, during and after a meeting with the communities to prepare our management or the parties involved so that they know what to do, how to go about doing it, what questions to ask, and what questions will be put to them, so that they have some idea of what to expect.
Senator Losier-Cool: So we can say that the many complaints that the Commissioner of Official Languages has mentioned in all his reports since 2007 — and perhaps before that — and of which the RCMP was mainly the subject, brought about your consultation plan?
Ms. Ferreira: I cannot tell you exactly because the complaints vary with the parties. The complaints that we receive are not all necessarily related to Part VII. We have received some complaints under Part VII, others under Part IV, service to the public, for example. Those complaints make us continue our efforts, of course. They make us try to improve our performance and introduce initiatives in all areas to take each part of the act into account and to address each of our weaknesses. We definitely use them to improve our service to the public in general and our implementation of the act, but I cannot say that all those complaints have triggered our initiatives under Part VII because they are not all related to Part VII.
Senator Losier-Cool: They are related to the Official Languages Act.
Mr. Tousignant: The 2007-10 strategic plan also helps us to make progress on official language issues, improve and continue going after an above-average rating
[English]
Senator Seidman: Thank you for coming this evening. Despite the low performance rating that we see here, you have emphasized positive measures in your presentation, and obviously you have taken these measures within perhaps the last year or year and a half with respect to Part VII of the Official Languages Act.
Do you regularly consult with the official-language minority communities, the anglophone communities in Quebec and the francophone communities in the rest of the country? As well, do you have discussions with the provincial governments?
Ms. Ferreira: From what I understand, we have coordinators across the regions that take part in interdepartmental meetings, and these meetings are with other institutions of government. Sometimes we also have meetings where the official-language minority communities come into play and take part in the discussions. I am not entirely certain about the provincial governments as well. However, in the different regions, our coordinators are involved in interdepartmental committees and committees with the official-language minority of the region.
If I can add to that, at the national level, we are also involved in interdepartmental committees with the Department of Justice Canada, Canadian Heritage and Public Safety Canada, if I am not mistaken. It is with the intent of finding further initiatives to enhance the development of these communities and foster the recognition of both English and French. We try to take part in as many committees as possible to find new initiatives, initiatives that fall within the scope of the RCMP, to be able to advance this part of the law.
Senator Seidman: To further clarify the consultation process with the various minority communities in the provinces, in Quebec, for example, you have anglophones in certain regions of Quebec. Would these communities be consulted in your planning?
Ms. Ferreira: They would be consulted if any initiatives taken by the RCMP would have an impact on these communities. Our intent is to consult if there is an impact and give them the opportunity to ask questions and to provide them with information.
Senator Seidman: Maybe we do not understand each other that well. With your recruitment or your programming, for example, do you consult with the communities and as to what you might do to further improve your relationship or your recruitment in developing this culture within the RCMP?
Mr. Tousignant: We have a national client survey that goes right across the country, including in Quebec. A portion in that would be about official languages and the services provided by the RCMP. In that way, we consult with people who would be in all the areas of the country. I do not know if that helps. However, I do not have Montreal-specific information.
Senator Seidman: Thank you.
[Translation]
Senator Mockler: When I was the Solicitor General of New Brunswick, the overall mark for 2004-05 was low; and the same was true for 2005-06 and 2006-07. Improvements appeared in 2007-08 and 2008-09, raising the overall mark to average.
My question is further to a question asked by Senator Tardif: could we get the language profile of each of the provinces? You do not need to answer immediately, but you could send that to the committee Chair through the clerk.
I monitored this very closely in New Brunswick, in the context of your new proactive measures, when you consulted your population in northwestern New Brunswick, in the Saint Leonard area, to get their comments. Were internal RCMP reports prepared following those public consultations? I know that you also did that in other regions of the Atlantic, in other Maritime provinces.
And if so, could the committee get copies so that we can know exactly what people said during the consultation, which I think was good? However, I would like to have the report because it is definitely a mechanism that you should use more aggressively in future.
Mr. Tousignant: I do not have that report, but I will make a search and take the necessary steps to determine whether the report exists.
Ms. Ferreira: I can answer the question. Once again, the reports we prepare are, as you say, internal because they are not yet official reports. We have the report on community feedback following that meeting; and, yes, we could send you all the comments that were sent to us.
Senator Losier-Cool: I have a supplementary question concerning the percentage figures that you will be sending us.
On the question of bilingual officers at the Vancouver Olympic Games, I believe there will be 600 — in any case, what I would like to know is whether that percentage somewhat reflects the percentage of all francophones who will be at the Olympic Games, athletes and spectators from all countries? Or does that only reflect the percentage of francophones in Western Canada, "where numbers warrant," as has often been said?
Mr. Teolis: We are trying to assemble the largest possible number of RCMP members and members working with the private security department who are bilingual. We do not know how many spectators or athletes are bilingual, but I can tell you that there will be more than 6,000 police officers, 20 per cent of whom will be bilingual; which means approximately 1,200 bilingual police officers.
That number of police officers includes members who come from other police forces than the RCMP. We have tried to reach bilingual officers from other police forces, and 632 members of those other police departments are bilingual. They will be present with the members of the RCMP.
Senator Losier-Cool: Are those of the police forces all Canadian?
Mr. Teolis: Yes, 116 forces across Canada will be sending police officers to the Olympic Games.
Senator Losier-Cool: So the security is being provided by Canadians; that is to say that the athletes from France will not be coming with their security services?
Mr. Teolis: Some countries are coming with liaison officers but are not providing security services as such. They will cooperate with the RCMP to ensure the security of their athletes.
Senator Pépin: I have a supplementary question. You said that military members will be joining the various police departments. But when you asked them to join you, did you specifically request bilingual military members?
Mr. Teolis: That was not specifically requested, but we hope they will be.
Senator Pépin: Perhaps you could make the suggestion.
Mr. Teolis: Yes, certainly.
Ms. Ferreira: I just wanted to add a brief comment on the percentage. The question was asked as to whether the percentage will reflect all francophone participation in the Olympic Games. I would simply like to say that we are working very hard at the RCMP to go back to the basic message. The basic principle is this: the goal is not necessarily or even — like our awareness and marketing campaign — just to meet or comply with our obligations; it is to try to go beyond them.
Our objective, despite our limited resources, is to go beyond our obligations and to ensure that we see a culture change and that linguistic duality is considered an asset.
The goal is therefore not necessarily to limit ourselves to the percentage required by the act, but to be able to offer service in the public's preferred language, where required. That is what the RCMP wants to try to do.
We could definitely provide you with percentages and so on; and we will do so at your request, of course, but the goal, for an event like the Olympic Games and any other event — but especially for the games because they are really at our doorstep — is still to provide service in the public's preferred language.
Senator Losier-Cool: Bravo! A beautiful principle.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: As I am a resident of Quebec City, I am aware that the Commissioner of Official Languages has received a complaint concerning the unilingualism of RCMP officers who were dispatched to Quebec City to provide security during the Francophone Summit on October 17 to 19, 2008.
That complaint was filed by Jean-Paul Perreault, the President of Impératif français, who found it insulting that officers called upon to serve the public and dignitaries in the old capital were incapable of speaking French.
He based his complaint on the fact that a journalist had asked four RCMP members where the media centre was, and none of them was able to answer in French. They were four unilingual anglophones.
Does the fact that no one paid any attention to the officers' language ability trouble you, when we will be welcoming francophone dignitaries from around the world? In addition, what does the RCMP intend to do to prevent this kind of situation from reoccurring in future?
Mr. Teolis: Of course that troubles us. With respect to that incident, a number of security officers had to be recruited at a time when we had to continue providing bilingual service in the rest of Canada. We asked for as many bilingual members as possible to come and work in Quebec City for that event.
We conducted follow-up to that event and it turned out that we could do better. We could have deployed bilingual members in places where there was more interaction with the public because we know there was a situation in which questions were put in French to members who were unilingual anglophones.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: In Canada, we are often called upon to receive groups that are mostly francophone on the occasion of important events. I hope that next time you will take that fact into account and respect it.
Mr. Teolis: That is why for the Olympic Games we are trying to recruit 20 per cent of members from other police departments who are bilingual. That represents more than 1,000 bilingual officers.
Ms. Ferreira: You asked us what we were going to do to ensure this does not occur again. This is not an excuse, but we are unfortunately limited in terms of resources, and that forces us to engage in risk management.
As my colleague explained, we must assign resources based on the degree of risk. And to rectify the situation with regard to the Olympic Games, the RCMP has called upon members of other police forces, including those in Quebec, who can serve the public in the language of their choice.
In that way, we will be sure we have a bilingual workforce across the country and continue to perform our official language duties and obligations where necessary.
The Deputy Chair: I think this will be the last question since we have to proceed with the second part of our meeting at 6:30 p.m.
Senator Tardif: Before asking my question, I would like to make a comment on the information you shared with us concerning the language training offered to unilingual francophones and not to unilingual anglophones.
This seems to me to be a problem with regard to equal access to language training. The fact that francophones would be supervised by anglophone supervisors would affect the language of work. There is also the fact that, when you receive language training, it is in order to offer service to the public.
The public is therefore at risk of not being able to be served in the official language of its choice, as a result of a lack of language training for members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. You said that, since there was no definition of "positive measures," it was subject to interpretation.
Have you received any opinions from the Minister of Justice on the meaning of the term "positive measure" and on the way people should implement "positive measures" in order to comply with this part of the Official Languages Act?
Ms. Ferreira: First, I am going to answer your question on language training. I am afraid I expressed myself poorly, but I want to assure you that language training is currently offered to unilingual anglophones in our organizations. It is offered to both anglophones and francophones.
The example of the pilot project I spoke to you about was simply a pilot project within the language training program that we have at the RCMP. But I assure you that language learning is accessible to both anglophones and francophones and that we ensure there is fairness in that regard.
As regards the pilot project, we are just starting and, since there are only two individuals actually working on the project, our resources are quite limited. Unfortunately, the reality is that we are moving forward one step at a time.
We would have liked to introduce a program for francophones and anglophones simultaneously, but, once again, we had to accept the reality and meet the needs of francophones. The goal is eventually to introduce a pilot project for new anglophone members as well. That said, I want to assure you that language training is currently offered to both linguistic groups.
As regards the "positive measures" question, we have an overall definition of what constitutes a "positive measure." Central agencies forward us examples of initiatives taken in other departments that could help us develop other ideas. It is from them that our ideas for initiatives that might possibly apply at the RCMP come from.
However, some measures will not necessary be applicable to the situation at the RCMP. I hope that answers your question.
Senator Tardif: Could you send us that overall definition and the examples that have been forwarded to you by the various departments?
Ms. Ferreira: Certainly.
The Deputy Chair: This ends the first part of today's meeting. Ms. Ferreira, Mr. Teolis and Mr. Tousignant, thank you for coming to meet with us and to answer our questions. We all hope that the RCMP becomes the most bilingual police force in North America.
(The committe is suspended.)
(The committe is suspended.)
The Deputy Chair: Senators, we will continue our study of the application of Part VII of the Official Languages Act and particularly the measures taken by federal organizations for that purpose.
The committee is interested in learning more about the accomplishments and initiatives of the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency in this area.
[English]
We now welcome, for the second part of the meeting, the Honourable Keith Ashfield, Minister of State for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency. He is accompanied by Paul J. LeBlanc, Executive Vice-President, Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency.
Minister Ashfield, the members of the committee thank you for accepting the invitation to appear today. I now invite you to say a few words, and senators will follow with questions afterwards.
The Hon. Keith Ashfield, P.C., M.P., Minister of State for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency: Thank you. It is a pleasure to be here this evening.
It is nice to see Senator Mockler outnumbered by so many. I am sure he is a challenge to keep under control every once in a while. I served with the senator in the provincial legislature in New Brunswick, so we go back a long way.
I am pleased to appear before you as Minister of State for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency, ACOA. I am joined, as you mentioned, by Paul J. LeBlanc, Executive Vice-President, Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency. Together we will endeavour to present ACOA's position with respect to the agency's interpretation and implementation of Part VII of the Official Languages Act.
To properly demonstrate how ACOA implements Part VII of the act, I feel it is necessary to provide you with a brief overview of the official-language minority communities that the agency serves.
As you know, French is the minority official language in Atlantic Canada. Atlantic Canada is home to approximately one third of our country's French-speaking community, and according to the figures of the 2006 Census, the population of the four Atlantic provinces is approximately 2.2 million people.
The French-speaking community of Atlantic Canada, comprised of Acadians and other francophones, totals approximately 275,000 people, or roughly 12 per cent of the regional population. The majority of Acadians and other francophones reside in my home province of New Brunswick.
The community can largely be found in geographical clusters across Atlantic Canada. In Newfoundland and Labrador, the bulk of the French-speaking population is located in the capital city of St. John's, on the Port-au-Port Peninsula in Western Newfoundland, and in Labrador City.
In Nova Scotia, the minority-language community is located primarily in Cape Breton, in Halifax, in the Clare and Argyle regions in Southwest Nova Scotia, and in rural communities throughout the province.
In Prince Edward Island, the Acadian and francophone communities are located primarily in the Evangeline Region. Its vibrancy is well known and respected by all.
In New Brunswick, the French-speaking community is concentrated in three areas: in Madawaska, in the northwest corner of the province; on the Acadian Peninsula in the northeast; and in the southeast portion of the province — Moncton, Shédiac, Bouctouche and area.
In each of the provinces, these communities are served by numerous support organizations coordinating activities ranging from education and health to economic development and business. At ACOA, it is second nature to serve the Acadian and francophone community in Atlantic Canada. The Acadian and other francophone communities in Atlantic Canada are part of the fabric of the region. In fact, a significant number of ACOA personnel are part of the minority-language community in Atlantic Canada that the agency serves.
I would like to emphasize a point about Part VII of the Official Languages Act. Section 41 of the act says:
The Government of Canada is committed to
(a) enhancing the vitality of the English and French linguistic minority communities in Canada and supporting and assisting their development . . . .
In Atlantic Canada, as a whole, our minority language communities are strong and vibrant, and as a federal agency, ACOA is committed to assisting this community, just as we are committed to assisting all communities and all Atlantic Canadians.
First, it would be helpful to share some background information on the agency itself. It was established in 1987 and is mandated to create opportunities for economic growth in the Atlantic region by helping businesses become more competitive, innovative and productive. As well, ACOA works with diverse communities to develop and diversify local economies. In addition to promoting the strengths of Atlantic Canada and its residents, ACOA partners in supporting regional prosperity through its efforts in three main areas: enterprise development, which is helping improve the business climate and lending a hand for individual business start-ups, modernizations and expansions; community development, which is working with communities to nurture economic growth, improve local infrastructure and develop opportunities in the local economy; and policy advocacy and coordination, which is about being a champion for Atlantic Canada by representing the region's interests at the national level in areas such as policy development, research and analysis, and by working with other departments to ensure coordination of policies and programs.
The agency has some 30 local offices covering virtually every corner of the Atlantic region. It is headquartered in Moncton, New Brunswick, and has regional offices located in each of Atlantic Canada's capital cities.
Partnerships with federal, provincial and regional organizations such as the regional economic development organizations, REDOs, and community business development corporations, CBDCs, are also central to the agency and the service we provide.
As a federal institution, as described by the Official Languages Act, the agency considers it a fundamental requirement to ensure the provision of service to the public in both official languages where a "significant demand for service" is deemed to exist. As such, ACOA readily complies with this and the other duties set out in the act, including ensuring the equality of status, use of both official languages in the workplace and equal opportunities for employment and advancement within federal institutions.
Most important, for the purposes of this presentation, ACOA adheres to the federal government's obligations under subsections 41(1)(a) and (b) of the act, which say: (a) enhancing the vitality of the English and French linguistic minority communities in Canada and supporting and assisting their development; and (b) fostering the full recognition and use of both English and French in Canadian society.
ACOA's actions and activities with respect to Atlantic Canada's official-language communities have been and continue to be proactive. That is to say, ACOA has always had close contact with these communities and attempted, even before it was required, to have both an open and transparent relationship.
The agency feels that its methods of conducting business with French-speaking communities can alone be seen as a positive measure, as envisioned by section 41(2) of the act. Through ACOA's activities and initiatives, the agency takes into account the particular nature and needs of each of the official-language minority communities in the region.
In 2004, for instance, ACOA entered into an agreement with Canadian Heritage to establish a $10-million fund to support projects designed to celebrate the 400th anniversary of the establishment of the first permanent French settlement in North America in 1604.
The Atlantic Canada Cultural and Economic Partnership, launched in 2004, was a concerted effort on the part of both departments to stimulate sustainable economic development in the Atlantic region. This was done by promoting its culture and celebrating the history and cultural diversity of Atlantic Canada, in the context of the 400th anniversary celebrations.
From the moment of its announcement, minority language communities were made aware of the available funding opportunity and were asked to participate in identifying the types of initiatives that would have the most impact.
Applications of official languages policy continues to evolve everywhere in government. For that reason, ACOA is updating its internal official-languages policy to ensure that it continues to be all encompassing and in compliance with all aspects of the act. That policy is intended to establish an integrated approach to the implementation of Part VII of the act.
The new policy will present the subject of official languages in a comprehensive fashion. It will demonstrate that official languages cannot and should not be in the abstract. Rather, it will show that the consideration of the issue is fundamental to the way we do business.
An example of how the agency views official languages from a comprehensive perspective is illustrated by its Integrated Official Languages Committee. This committee is comprised of personnel from units within the agency that are responsible for monitoring both the provision of service to the public in Part IV, in French and in English, as well as for the integration of official-language considerations in program development and delivery in both Part IV and Part VII. The consideration of both functions in one committee provides the agency with an integrated approach to meeting its official-language obligations.
From a funding perspective, ACOA has made significant contributions, commercial and non-commercial alike, to French-speaking communities in Atlantic Canada. Over the past five years, the agency has funded over $60 million in projects in the region's official-language minority community. This funding includes contributions from the agency's Business Development Program, as well as contributions from the Interdepartmental Partnership with the Official- Language Communities — partnerships with the Department of Canadian Heritage — from the Government of Canada's Action Plan for Official Languages 2003 to 2008, which was approximately $2.4 million, and the above- mentioned Atlantic Canada Cultural and Economic Partnership.
With respect to the current Action Plan for Official Languages, known as the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality 2008-13: Acting for the Future, the agency is actively involved in developing projects with French-speaking communities supported by the economic development initiative of the plan. Several projects are in the approval stage, and the agency plans to engage in an additional round of consultations with minority-language communities to generate further interest in the coming months.
Over and above action-plan funding, the agency has also supported projects through its Business Development Program, such as the Congrès mondial acadien, the World Acadian Congress, which was held on the Acadian Peninsula in New Brunswick in August of 2009. The agency is currently funding a major initiative to be held at the 2010 Olympic Winter Games: The Atlantic Canada House is a trade initiative showcasing Atlantic Canadian businesses at the Place de la Francophonie 2010 on Granville Island in Vancouver, British Columbia.
Other notable projects that have recently received support from ACOA include the restoration of the Pays de la Sagouine, a key cultural and tourism icon for the Beauséjour region in New Brunswick; route d'Iberville in Newfoundland; the international strategy for the promotion of Acadian artists; and the development of the experiential tourism products such as lobster fishing, arts and culture. These are but some specific examples of ACOA's support for the minority-language communities in Atlantic Canada.
Respecting official languages is not seen as an obligation at ACOA but rather as good business sense. It is being mindful of the needs of a core constituency that the agency has mandated to serve. ACOA's relationship with economic development stakeholders in these communities is a very close one. This fact is well illustrated by the ACOA-RDÉE committee that has been in existence since 2006. The committee is comprised of section-41 coordinators from ACOA's head office and its regional offices who collaborate with the four provincial RDÉE directors on a regular basis.
At ACOA, our official languages are part and parcel of all activities and initiatives within the agency. It is second nature to provide these services. That means that the agency support for minority-language communities is not addressed as an obligation but rather as an automatic response to our region's demographic reality, reflective of a cultural, diverse, accepting and forward-thinking country.
This government, under leadership of our Prime Minister, is proud of ACOA's record of supporting the French- speaking linguistic minority in Atlantic Canada. The agency's work with the community goes well beyond the minimum expectation that the Canadian public should be able to communicate with the federal government in both official languages.
The agency's record is one of true engagement of our minority-language communities in the development of Atlantic Canada. We would be very happy to answer any questions.
[Translation]
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: The Roadmap for Linguistic Duality (2008-13) ensures that the federal institutions, particularly those with a mandate under the Official Languages Act, ensure better governance and horizontal coordination to integrate their respective work and enhance the efficiency of their actions in accordance with the Official Languages Accountability and Coordination Framework.
Could you tell me how your institution is managing to implement the federal commitment to minority francophones?
Paul J. LeBlanc, Executive Vice-President, Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency: Allow me to describe a few key elements in the Agency's organization pursuant to its official language responsibilities. I am going to elaborate on a few points that the minister made in his introduction.
For example, at ACOA, we have created an official language secretariat which is an integral part of our program development and policy box, which is unlike what is typically found in a human resources section.
In one of the three components of our mandate, community development, we have a secretariat dedicated to official languages. We have a regional headquarters in each of the four Atlantic provinces and in each of those headquarters is a person dedicated mainly to the execution of our section 41 obligations. We have this internal committee at ACOA.
The duty of these individuals is to establish and maintain contact with the minority communities to ensure they clearly understand, in all parts of the Atlantic Region, that they are the priority, our involvement in strategic planning and our responsibility to make a positive contribution to development, planning and so on. In return, we receive investment proposals that subsequently enable us to invest in projects such as those the minister referred to a few minutes ago. There are hundreds of them, and I would dare say thousands. This is a matter of the Agency's systematic and structural organization to be able to give effect to our responsibilities. That was one example.
We also have a number of partners in developing our programming. The minister mentioned local community development organizations. These are local outfits with management committees that come from the communities. They are distributed in Atlantic Canada in such a way as to cover the entire Atlantic territory.
All minority communities have a local development organization to attend to their development aspirations. We fund those organizations. We require that these organizations have annual and multi-year planning. We conduct ongoing follow-up with these organizations and, as an integral part of governance, we require that they acknowledge and comply with the Agency's section 41 obligations. In other words, we transfer those obligations and responsibilities to our partners, with good results and a high degree of efficiency.
I have other examples to give you, but I know you have other questions and I will stop here.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: You spoke so well that you answered my second question at the same time.
To conclude, could you tell us a little more about the Roadmap's implementation in your institution? Can you be even a little more specific, please?
Mr. Leblanc: With regard to the Roadmap for the next five years, it is important to mention Canadian Heritage's cooperation in the program's preliminary planning. We very much appreciated the various consultations and their assistance in preparing documents that were ultimately forwarded to Cabinet so that those funds could be allocated to this initiative. I think it is worth mentioning this efficient cooperation from the outset. As a result of this cooperative effort, we ultimately received an allocation of $6.4 million for this five-year period. We were able to consult with the communities in our region exhaustively and quite easily thanks to this network of shrewd officers who have long been able to develop partnerships and relationships that make it possible to consult efficiently.
We have received a large number of proposals. We are currently at the analysis stage and we will shortly begin approving and announcing investments in this next program investment chapter.
This is very positive. I would dare say that this funding from Canadian Heritage represents — this is very important — only a fraction of the total investment that will be made using ACOA funds because we are obviously investing in accordance with our fundamental economic development mandate.
Senator Pépin: Thank you for coming. Last year, the Supreme Court found in the Desrochers case that the government had to take the necessary measures for anglophones and francophones to make an equal contribution to service delivery. Has your institution taken the necessary measures to take that Supreme Court decision into account?
[English]
Mr. Ashfield: ACOA has approximately 757 employees. The vast majority of those people are on the ground in Atlantic Canada. In terms of our linguistic profile for the agency, 261 employees have French as their first language, and 496 have English as their first language. We have 469 bilingual positions, so we are very well versed and very efficient on the ground in being able to deliver in either language, in every region of Atlantic Canada.
On the judgment itself, I will let Mr. LeBlanc look after that.
[Translation]
Mr. LeBlanc: As the minister noted, since our inception in 1987, we have definitely been very sensitive and committed to our region's bilingual and bicultural situation, and definitely to its francophone Acadian reality. By the very fact of our mandate, we succeed solely to the extent that we can permit successes in each of our communities; that is part of our basic mandate.
We therefore have official language development policies, but this Supreme Court case has nevertheless drawn our attention and we made sure we were on the right track; it pushed us to review our policies. We are now convinced that we are consistent with the case law.
That said, we are still focused on two areas. We must always try to improve and move forward. First, we are reassessing our internal official languages policy; it is consistent with policies that have been around at the federal level for a number of years, but in view of public service renewal priorities such as, for example, staff turnover and new case law, a review has become imperative. This effort is underway and will be completed by the end of this year or early in 2010. We will be pleased to share that document with the committee.
The other area that I wanted to mention is training for our staff. Prior to this court decision, we offered training sessions to all our staff.
Senator Pépin: Both francophones and anglophones?
Mr. LeBlanc: The Agency's entire staff. This matter is part of our training and orientation for new staff; it is part of the training for our management trainees. Partly as a result of that decision, we decided to add an overall training component involving all Agency employees who arrive by the end of the 2009 year.
So, yes, some measures have been taken as a result of the Desrochers decision; it has pushed us to talk a little more with our lawyers, which we do all the time.
The Deputy Chair: That supports the lawyers.
Mr. LeBlanc: Exactly. When you start talking with lawyers, they do not stop.
Senator Pépin: However, you have put everyone on an equal footing; you have involved all francophone and anglophone staff. That is very good.
I am referring to the minister's presentation. I obviously have a French version. On page 21 of 27, where it talks about the Agency being actively involved in developing projects with French-speaking communities, it states: "Several projects are in the approval stage and the Agency plans to engage in an additional round of consultations with minority language communities to further interest in the coming months."
I wondered why. Was there less interest when you started your project? Were people less interested?
Mr. LeBlanc: No. On the contrary, there was a great deal of interest, but this is a five-year project, you see; we would not necessarily consider committing all funding to a single stage. There were a lot of answers. I admit that, among all those we received, we obviously cannot support all the projects we received. There were some very good proposals, very good projects. There are some communities that approached us and whose projects we will not be able to support as proposed. As is our habit, we will not refuse them, but we will work with them instead to find feasible initiatives.
So that sentence essentially refers to that.
[English]
Mr. Ashfield: I believe six projects are under evaluation right now and these are among them. They are in various stages of approval. For example, there is the Commission du tourisme acadien du Canada atlantique, CTACA, for tourism promotion, the establishment of specific Acadian tourism packages; the entrepreneurial leadership project for youth and community economic development — it is basically a knowledge-based economy project; the business forum, Rendez-vous Acadie-Québec; and translation services. Those are all projects that are currently under evaluation at this time.
As Mr. LeBlanc said, it is a five-year program. You do not roll it all out in one swoop; you have to stage it as you go. More applications will come in over time.
[Translation]
Senator Pépin: The last paragraph on page 22 of 27 states that the Agency is currently funding a major initiative to be held at the Olympic Games. It will showcase Atlantic Canadian businesses at the Place de la francophonie on Granville Island in Vancouver. Do you know the percentage of francophones who will be taking part in those projects, relative to anglophones?
Mr. LeBlanc: I can assure you without a doubt that the representation of Atlantic Region francophones will be greater in percentage terms than their percentage of population. This is an initiative between us and the four provinces to present Atlantic Canada to the world through this showcase of the Olympic Games. Everything is taking place at Place de la francophonie.
The francophone representation and the bilingual aspect of the region were the priority from the start. That priority was there in the negotiations between the minister and each of the provinces. We emphasize this point on every occasion and are absolutely convinced that francophones will be very well represented. It will be a pleasure for us to provide you with the supporting information and figures in the coming months.
Senator Losier-Cool: First, I would like to welcome our fellow New Brunswickers.
Congratulations on your presentation. As a senator from New Brunswick, I find your presentation interesting and well developed. I know that ACOA has always been respectful of the two official languages. Your practices in that area are exemplary. Have you shared the results of those practices with other organizations?
[English]
Mr. Ashfield: We are in the process of setting up the new regional development agency in Southern Ontario. I believe we have nine people involved in that process to help that agency through its early developmental stages, so, yes, we are involved. We communicate as regional development agencies. I communicate on a regular basis with my counterparts, the other ministers of state in the regional development agencies, and we share some of our best practices.
Mr. LeBlanc may want to elaborate on the situation in Southern Ontario with that new agency. It is a big step. We started in 1987, so we have almost 23 years of experience in this business now, and many people who are long-term employees, 20 years plus, who have stayed with the agency over that period of time. We have much valuable expertise that we can share with other agencies.
Senator Losier-Cool: I am very happy you do it. It is a success story.
I want to go to something else now. I want to refer to an article in the Telegraph Journal, from Saint John, New Brunswick, this morning, entitled "ACOA sees a significant drop in revenue last year."
Could you comment, or what should I take from that?
[Translation]
Mr. LeBlanc, you stated that, last April, when IPOLC was abolished, another program was established in cooperation with Canadian Heritage that seemed to be more favourable. Is the decline in revenue linked to IPOLC?
Mr. LeBlanc: The very simple answer is this: no, it is not related to IPOLC. A large number of investments and funds administered by ACOA are not refundable. Those funds are community funds or socio-economic in nature. They are not financial contributions paid to a business, but to cultural groups or associations to promote the economy and society in general. However, we have a commercial component; these are our loans to businesses. The article you are talking about refers to the fact that we noticed a decline in revenues repaid by applicants.
Senator Losier-Cool: For what reason?
Mr. LeBlanc: It can be explained by two reasons. First of all, in the past few years, there has been less borrowing on the commercial side, which has favoured the non-commercial side. That factor, which represents a large part of that figure, is not at all troubling. In other words, we are talking about a planned expansion. We deliberately directed funds to the non-commercial side to invest a little more in universities and in science and technology. We have development and entrepreneurship programs intended solely for women, young entrepreneurs and francophone communities. A number of these programs are non-commercial. We still see a kind of movement back and forth between the two components.
By reducing the number of loans, we lower the repayment rate. That, to a large degree, is what explains this phenomenon.
Another phenomenon should be explained. The current economic situation, which has prevailed for nearly two years, raises the economic challenges with which we are now familiar. One of the ways of helping Atlantic entrepreneurs is to give them more time to repay their debts. However, this factor represents only 10 per cent of the amount.
Senator Losier-Cool: Then I understand that this phenomenon will not negatively affect the projects carried out by ACOA.
This point leads me to the subject of universities in the Atlantic Region. What initiatives has ACOA put forward to help Atlantic universities, particularly with respect to minority students or international students? Is Atlantic Canada Universities an agency or an association linked to ACOA?
Mr. LeBlanc: Are you talking about the Association of Atlantic Universities (AAU)?
Senator Losier-Cool: Indeed.
Mr. LeBlanc: Until quite recently, Yvon, from the University of Moncton, chaired the group.
To carry out its regional development mandate, ACOA relies on a number of partners. The universities are major partners. Yesterday, on leaving Moncton, I heard a story on the cancer research centre of the Université de Moncton. ACOA investments helped establish that centre. We have supported it from its inception through our innovation investment program.
We have supported the centre since its inception through our innovation investment program. I do not have the exact figures, but I would say we have $3 million to $5 million in that program alone. We proactively encouraged the development of an Atlantic association of professional translators with headquarters in New Brunswick. We invested several hundreds of thousands of dollars — I say invested because those contributions are paying returns to the general public — to promote the translation industry, which is really a unique asset for New Brunswick, the only bilingual province in Canada; and this involves the Université de Moncton to a large degree. These initiatives have involved the Université de Moncton, the network of francophone community colleges in New Brunswick and the industry, of course; the province has cooperated in this work with us as well.
I offer these as a few specific examples. The Agency invests an average of $60 million to $70 million a year in its innovation program, better known in English as the Atlantic Innovation Fund, a very important fund.
The major applicants under this program are our universities. We work proactively to have them there and definitely proactively with the francophone university to have them involved in these firms. My colleague, the president of the Agency, Deputy Minister Monique Colette, is the Champion for the Université de Moncton; I am the Champion for Mount Allison University, just next door. There is a lot of de facto promotion.
Senator Losier-Cool: Peter Mansbridge will be talking about you!
Mr. LeBlanc: I hope so. We talk about him.
Senator Losier-Cool: Apart from the Université de Moncton — if Senator Comeau were here, he would definitely talk about Sainte-Anne — do the francophones from the other provinces, and I know there are francophones in Newfoundland, also have projects that benefit from ACOA?
Mr. LeBlanc: Yes, they benefit from ACOA, absolutely. As the minister mentioned, the majority of our positions are bilingual. In those positions, we have bilingual professionals and a very large number of those bilingual professionals are Acadians and other francophones from those communities everywhere. My policy director in Moncton is a nice guy from Chéticamp. People come from all the francophone communities. We have a project, under the last Roadmap, that concerns e-education with the Université de Sainte-Anne.
So, yes, the largest population is in Moncton, but, as the minister mentioned, we have 30 ACOA offices in Atlantic Canada. There is no place where a francophone community in Atlantic Canada is not near an ACOA office in that region.
Senator Tardif: Minister, I am pleased to see and note your commitment to the francophones of Atlantic Canada and your commitment to implementing Part VII of the Official Languages Act.
In Part VII of the Official Languages Act, there is now a new obligation, the obligation to implement "positive measures" to enhance the vitality and assist the development of the official language minority communities.
Can you tell us, in all these "positive measures" issues, what definition you give to the concept of "positive measures"?
[English]
Mr. Ashfield: I imagine we view "positive measures" as those defined by Canadian Heritage in its guide for federal institutions; that being, "any measure contributing to the development of official language minority communities and to the fostering of full recognition and use of both English and French in Canadian society."
Some examples I could give you of positive measures taken by ACOA include consulting with and nurturing a relationship with the representative organizations of official-language minority communities the national and regional levels. We have established dedicated committees whose specific mandate is to concentrate on enhancing the vitality of and assisting the official-language minority communities in Atlantic Canada at the regional level, and ensuring the monitoring of the official-language minority communities' needs and expectations by regional section-41 coordinators.
We have a long list of what we consider to be positive measures that we have undertaken.
[Translation]
Senator Tardif: You said that the definition you use comes from Canadian Heritage. Have you also received advice from the Department of Justice on this matter?
[English]
Mr. Ashfield: Perhaps I will let Mr. LeBlanc answer that specifically with the involvement with the Department of Justice Canada.
[Translation]
Mr. LeBlanc: If you listen to the definition the minister read, it is a very broad, very open definition that allows for many initiatives. You need only have people of good will who want to introduce those initiatives and who are equipped to do so, with the financial and other resources.
We find this definition very useful because it has no limits, it gives us a direction, we understand its meaning, and it gives us considerable room to manoeuvre.
We quite often speak with our Justice Canada lawyers because we at ACOA have a legal unit from Justice Canada on site in Moncton. We obviously work with them every day. We discuss official language issues, but we do not have a formal opinion from Justice Canada on this question. We did not request one, and we did not receive one. I believe that is because we did not feel the need to do so, for the reasons I have mentioned.
Senator Tardif: You talked about consultation, but when you make a decision, do you take into account their impact on the francophone community in the Atlantic Region, for example?
[English]
Mr. Ashfield: Absolultely. Yes; always.
[Translation]
Senator Tardif: In your discussions with the provincial governments, are issues concerning language clauses and the vitality of the francophone communities raised as well?
Mr. LeBlanc: Yes, absolutely. I should have mentioned that earlier; the minister and I talked about how we went about exercising those responsibilities. I talked about that committee of ACOA officers. We have what are called tripartite committees with each of the provinces. We have an ACOA committee, the Province of New Brunswick and the minority communities of New Brunswick to deal with the aspirations of those communities in New Brunswick. We have a similar committee in Newfoundland, Prince Edward Island and Nova Scotia. We have them in the four provinces.
So, yes, we have an ongoing, systematic, high-level commitment — at the assistant deputy minister level and often with an assistant deputy minister or deputy minister at the provincial level — specifically on this linguistic minority issue. It is an enormous priority in New Brunswick, obviously, and even with the lowest figures; we think this is a major priority in Prince Edward Island and Nova Scotia, definitely. Those provinces are pleased to have a partner in ACOA with which they can invest together harmoniously. In Newfoundland, the percentage is very small, but we have perfectly bilingual employees in Newfoundland. We have a man in Gander who speaks French and could teach it to me. When I go to Saint-Pierre and Miquelon to deal with the French — because we have a joint commission there — I often go with my Newfoundland colleague, who delights the Newfoundlanders; they are delighted to see someone who has such great mastery of French. He studied in Saint-Pierre and Miquelon.
Senator Tardif: You said that the definition of "positive measures" is very broad. If there were regulations, could that provide more support for the implementation of section 41 concerning "positive measures"? Do you believe it would be beneficial to have regulations?
[English]
Mr. Ashfield: No, I think just the opposite. Regulations would probably make it very restrictive and be questionable. We have a great deal of flexibility to operate within our programs now and promote French-language rights to French-language minorities. Putting specific regulations in place — rules, I guess — would be a restrictive way to go in our opinion.
We have the flexibility now to operate within our program, and, as far as I am concerned, that is the way we should stay. I do not see a regulation as being beneficial at all.
Perhaps Mr. LeBlanc may have thoughts on that as well.
Mr. LeBlanc: Among people of good will, who are equipped to do the jobs they have to do and who understand and are given clear direction, the framework we have now is very good because it is enabling. If you ask the question, yes, but is that enough, and if it is not, is it a regulation that would be the next best thing? I would offer that I do not think the regulation would be the next best thing. The next best thing is more of the type of work your committee is doing.
In other words, to call those of us who are out there, who claim to have the tools and the right frameworks, to in fact account for what we are doing and to demonstrate the result we are getting. Enhancing those accountability frameworks would be better than giving more pointed, specific frameworks in which to work. The spirit of this element of the act really rests on people's imagination, enthusiasm, creativity, goodwill, ability to be proactive, et cetera, and the tighter the box, the harder it is to let people run with those things.
Senator Tardif: I really appreciate your comments. I find it an interesting approach, the fact that you are speaking about the accountability framework. My only reaction to that would be that, in some cases, we have heard that because we have no clear definition of positive measures, it becomes very difficult to measure whether you have attained the results associated with positive measures. If you do not have a clear definition, how can you determine what the results are in the accountability framework?
Mr. LeBlanc: I sometimes joke that I have difficulty explaining to my mother what I do when I go to work. My mother is 85, and if I try to explain to my mother about positive measures for the vitality of a community, I do not have any trouble explaining what that is and she has no difficulty understanding what that means.
That is why I say that a little more rigorous insistence on the accountability side in my view would tend to cut through that. Let us err with trying too many things. I cannot imagine anything that anyone would attempt to do because they thought it was a positive measure resulting in them learning that it was not positive.
Senator Tardif: Thank you.
Senator Losier-Cool: Senators have a hard time explaining to Canadians the work they do.
Senator Seidman: Thank you for coming here today, minister. You have emphasized that you consult minority communities in a proactive way through outreach mechanisms and partnerships. I would say that is truly commendable and likely an example from which other agencies can learn.
I would like to learn from you now, and ask what your approach is to maximizing your consultation. What procedures do you use? Have you systematized things? How do you identify your communities' formal community groups and so on?
Mr. Ashfield: We have a distinct advantage as regional economic development agencies. The true advantage is that the people doing the work are actually on the ground in the communities, interacting on a daily basis with people in the community. They all have first-hand knowledge, as we discussed earlier. We have over 30 offices. We have offices out in the regions all over Atlantic Canada. We have head offices in Moncton and one regional office in each of the four provincial capitals.
Probably 720 of our 769 folk are on the ground in Atlantic Canada dealing with people on a day-to-day basis, so they understand Atlantic Canada and the issues that face each of their respective communities.
The regions are very different. From one province to another, they are very different, and there is a big difference within each province from region to region as well. Therefore, it is important to have people on the ground fulfilling that outreach that is required for us to develop as an agency and to promote language, economic development, or whatever — the business we are in. That is our biggest advantage and that is the way we conduct ourselves.
As far as specific examples, perhaps Mr. LeBlanc might have a few that he could demonstrate.
Mr. LeBlanc: Yes, I do have a couple of specifics to add. We mentioned earlier that we have people dedicated in each of these regional offices. They have specific responsibilities for this outreach on section 41 of the act. They must go to the communities; they must consult; they must show.
One of the large, rugged-looking gentlemen behind me calls on these people regularly. They have to report to him. Mr. Inder is the leader of our secretariat. He requires quarterly reports that ask questions such as who you went to see, what you did and what the strategy looks like.
[Translation]
This is not carelessness. These are not just nice words and ideas. This is structured, systematic. This is part of the annual and five-year plans and these results are reported in the annual report that we send to Canadian Heritage.
The francophone communities in Nova Scotia, for example, are among those for which our assistant deputy minister for Nova Scotia has to achieve his goals because, otherwise, he will not meet his economic development objective. He cannot have a successful economy if one-third of the population is lagging behind. That is fundamental. It is so central to the mandate that it is virtually second nature.
Senator Mockler: I would be remiss if I did not add my comments to those of Senator Losier-Cool concerning ACOA's leadership throughout the Atlantic.
I will be a bit subjective. Since I know the minister very well, I am sure he does not waste an hour in the day adding to ACOA's leadership.
There is such close cooperation with partners, whether it be the Association francophone des municipalités du Nouveau-Brunswick, Saint-Thomas-d'Aquin, the SANB, Développement culturel acadien francophone throughout the Atlantic or Santé en français with the Université de Moncton, as well as the Université de Sainte-Anne.
Mr. LeBlanc, you said that the Roadmap was a very good cooperative effort with Canadian Heritage, that it was a very positive point. That is on record in Hansard, and I congratulate you on that.
[English]
Can you elaborate on those funds and what increment you had and where, and what impact it will have for minorities in Canada?
Mr. LeBlanc: We looked at the last five years in preparation for the committee and also in managing our affairs. Specifically, we wanted to be sure we were up to date. We arrived at a number through the examination that the minister mentioned in his opening remarks, and that is an investment of $60 million in the francophone minority communities over the last five years.
That $60 million is strictly what we call "community development investments," non-commercial community development investments in the communities. It does not include all the commercial investments. We know the commercial investments that we have made are probably double that number. We did not have an immediate number because of specifics in our automated system, but we invest in businesses in all those communities. We do projects that are $100,000. We recently did one, I believe, of some $2 million with a forestry operation. The minister announced $14 million in silviculture development in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick as part of the community adjustment fund, as part of the government's stimulus programming.
That is going from stimulus programming to forestry investment in New Brunswick, which is a vital industry for New Brunswick, and an industry that very much proportionately engages francophone communities.
[Translation]
The people of the francophone community in Atlantic Canada are very much involved in and committed to the forest industry.
[English]
The big example is that $60 million at which we looked. We have probably another $100 million on the commercial side, and perhaps more than that. We have an endless array of examples of specific projects that we could talk about.
[Translation]
Senator Mockler: Can you elaborate on the Réseau de développement économique de l'employabilité?
[English]
What is the impact of it in ACOA's action plan for implementing Part VII? I know when we look at the figures of your team, they are to be applauded. However, can you elaborate on the action plan for the economic development network?
[Translation]
Mr. LeBlanc: The RDEEs form a national network that is in each of the four Atlantic provinces, as it is in the other provinces and territories and is the responsibility of the Department of Human Resources, not our department or Industry. The RDEEs have been around for quite a long time and are a small group of people whose mandate is to contribute to strategic planning for the economic development of our francophone communities, with a priority focus on employability, that is to say job creation and preparing people for the employment market. For us, it is another very important network of partners.
Earlier I mentioned our internal committee responsible for section 41. We have a committee on which we bring our players within ACOA together with the four Atlantic Canada RDEEs. We are systematically engaged with them in investment identification and planning. We help them with their planning mandate and they help us in return by advising us on the best investments. This is another source of information and coordination; and it works well in Atlantic Canada.
Senator Mockler: That directly affects the communities.
Mr. LeBlanc: Absolutely. It is their mandate and it is a provincial mandate. I already mentioned how we focus on specific regions of the province with our local development groups as well as our local offices.
The Deputy Chair: Thank you very much.
[English]
Thank you for having accepted our invitation, minister. As Mr. LeBlanc said a minute ago, the invitation made you look around to see what you were doing. From what you have told us tonight, all the francophones in the Atlantic provinces are very lucky to have you.
[Translation]
Thank you very much, Mr. LeBlanc. Senators, the meeting is adjourned.
(The committee adjourned.)