Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 3 - Evidence - Meeting of April 19, 2010
OTTAWA, Monday, April 19, 2010
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day at 5:04 p.m. to study the application for the Official Languages Act and of the regulations and directives made under it. (Topic: Part VII of the Official Languages Act and other issues.)
Senator Maria Chaput (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Honourable senators, I see a quorum, and I thus call the meeting to order.
Welcome to the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages. I am Senator Maria Chaput from Manitoba, chair of the committee.
I would first like to introduce the committee members who are here today. I will begin on my left with Senator Andrée Champagne from Quebec, who is also deputy chair of the committee; Senator Michel Rivard from Quebec; Senator Seidman from Quebec, and Senator Fortin-Duplessis who is also from Quebec.
On my right is Senator Rose-Marie Losier-Cool from New Brunswick and Senator Runciman from Ontario.
The committee is currently studying the application of Part VII of the Official Languages Act within various federal institutions. Today we welcome two representatives of the Public Health Agency of Canada who will speak to us about this implementation within their institution.
We welcome Mr. James Ladouceur, Director General, Human Resources Directorate and Mr. Marc Desroches, Manager, Diversity and Official Languages, Learning, Diversity and Employee Programs Division.
Gentlemen, the committee thanks you for having accepted our invitation to appear. I invite you to make your presentation and the senators will follow up with questions. Please go ahead.
James Ladouceur, Director General, Human Resources Directorate, Public Health Agency of Canada: Thank you, Madam Chair.
[English]
I am pleased to have the opportunity to discuss the support and commitment of the Public Health Agency of Canada, PHAC, to the official language minority communities across Canada.
[Translation]
I am pleased to introduce Mr. Marc Desroches, Manager, Diversity and Official Languages with the agency. Marc is responsible for managing the Public Health Agency of Canada's Official Languages Program including the implementation of Part VII.
As Director General, Human Resources, at the Public Health Agency of Canada, I manage a directorate which contributes directly to the health and well-being of all Public Health Agency of Canada employees and to supporting the agency's mission to promote and protect the health of Canadians through leadership, partnership, innovation and action in public health in all provinces and territories including the Official Language Minority Communities.
[English]
In September 2004, the Public Health Agency of Canada was created within the health portfolio. Prior to that, the organization had been a branch of Health Canada. The agency's mandate is to deliver on the Government of Canada's commitment to help protect the health and safety of all Canadians, to increase its focus on public health and to make a key contribution to improving health and strengthening the health care system.
From September 2004 until mid-2007, the official languages program was managed by Health Canada. By late 2007, PHAC began to manage its own official languages program and to report to Canadian Heritage on the implementation of the Part VII of the Official Languages Act. The agency obtained a rating of A from the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages on its report card for the year 2007-08 for the development of official language minority communities.
[Translation]
The following year, the Public Health Agency of Canada submitted its 2008-2009 Annual Report on Results of the Implementation of Section 41 of the Official Languages Act to the Department of Canadian Heritage (which you have received a copy of). I am pleased to highlight major initiatives relating to Part VII of the Official Languages Act.
[English]
The Public Health Agency of Canada has established the Official Languages Coordinators' Network, comprised of representatives from the regions and the National Capital Region. The agency's network has established and maintains links and partnerships with official language minority communities' organizations and participates in some of their activities.
[Translation]
The network works closely with representatives of federal institutions and community organizations, especially those taking part in federal councils, to encourage discussion on regional and national issues relating to official language minority communities.
[English]
To clearly understand public health issues in communities, PHAC representatives participate in annual assemblies as well as various communications and cooperative activities developed by community organizations.
For example, the Atlantic regional coordinator cooperated with the Réseau d'expertises de la Société Santé en français, and the Consortium national de formation en santé to develop a coordinated approach on public health.
The agency regularly reports on its activities in the regions and the National Capital Region. For example, the Atlantic region of Public Health Agency of Canada published its first report related to its five-year action plan, which resulted from discussions with major French-speaking and Acadian community organizations. To ensure that official language minority communities are well informed, PHAC posted public-health notices on subjects such as listeriosis and the H1N1 pandemic in minority community media.
In 2008 and 2009, PHAC funded 12 projects in official language minority communities in a wide range of areas such as AIDS prevention, promoting healthy lifestyles, seniors' mobility and early childhood development. In that same year, the Atlantic region submitted its first activity report and has implemented its action plan under Part VII of the Official Languages Act.
The Public Health Agency of Canada has also participated in national conferences focusing on official language minority communities' issues and shared information with regional offices for the benefit of the communities.
[Translation]
During the H1N1 pandemic, the Public Health Agency of Canada implemented various efforts to ensure public health messages were available in both official languages. Further, to support official languages at the Public Health Agency of Canada, we have a champion, Dr. Danielle Grondin, whose role is to raise awareness among managers and employees in regards to their obligations under the Official Languages Act.
[English]
With the agency in its infancy in managing the official languages program, the mandate remains to continue to enhance services and participate in official language minority communities' activities.
[Translation]
In closing, I want to reiterate that the Public Health Agency of Canada will continue to build from consultations and work in collaboration with the Public Health Agency of Canada's Official Languages Coordinators Network and with partners to support access to public health services in official language minority communities.
[English]
I thank you again for this opportunity and look forward to responding to your questions.
[Translation]
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: The Public Health Agency of Canada did not receive any funding as part of the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality 2008-2013, because a review of your department's budget documents did not allow me to determine how much it spends for official languages as part of its regular programs.
Could you tell the committee how much your department spends for official languages and why these figures are not available in your budget documents?
[English]
Mr. Ladouceur: I will have to turn to my colleague for that. I do not have the information to which you are referring readily at hand. For Part VII of the act on which we are reporting today, we do have facts and figures for the 12 projects that our agency funded. I can provide those details to the committee.
I cannot answer questions on the current budget now because I do not have the facts and figures in front of me. I will be happy to respond once I look at that. I am unaware of how much the budget envelope is; however, in terms of provision of programs and services out of PHAC, our programs are provided globally across the country. Our obligations under the Official Languages Act and Part VII are taken into account whenever we are doing program development. For example, when we are moving toward Treasury Board submission or toward a memorandum to cabinet, Part VII of the Official Languages Act is factored in when doing program assessment, and so on. I am afraid I cannot talk directly to specific numeracy today. I do have figures for the work we have done and the money we have spent that I will be happy to share with you.
[Translation]
Marc Desroches, Manager, Diversity and Official Languages, Learning, Diversity and Employee Programs Division, Public Health Agency of Canada: You are right, that is not part of the Roadmap and thus the information is not available.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: I found that there was a lack of transparency around this question on the part of your department.
Mr. Desroches: When we were part of Health Canada, we worked within the Roadmap. Now that we are a separate agency from Health Canada, we are no longer among those who are identified in the Roadmap. As concerns 2008- 2009, the amount of $3.8 million was invested in a dozen projects.
However, we will make sure that this information is clarified for the public.
The Chair: If you have additional information, could you please send it to the committee?
Mr. Ladouceur: I would be happy to.
[English]
Senator Runciman: Perhaps I am being audacious, as a substitute member, to ask a question, but I am reading over what the director general just read into the record and what Commissioner Fraser said. I would describe his conclusions as critical.
Do you disagree with the conclusions that the commissioner has raised? If that is the case — and, I am assuming it is to some degree — could you elaborate on where you find his findings not accurate? Can you respond to some of the specific concerns he outlined in his report?
Mr. Ladouceur: When I mentioned the A rating that we received, it was for Part VII, and I am prepared to talk to Part VII. However, I believe you are referring to the global report that we received from the Commissioner of Official Languages. Since I came into the agency a brief time ago, we have taken steps to address those particular items. For example, we have engaged Mr. Desroches and have taken steps to deal with the issues. However, in preparing for this committee, I focused on Part VII. I am in the hands of the chair here in terms of responding outside of that. If I am asked questions about Parts IV, V and VI, I would be happy to respond to those in terms of the specific activities that we have been taking.
We have taken some steps. We have clearly responded to some of the things that the Commissioner of Official Languages has identified in responding to complaints. I can provide details more specifically to your question perhaps at the appropriate time.
Senator Runciman: Perhaps you can get into detail later. I was referring to the overall rating and whether you shared that view or felt that it was inaccurate.
Mr. Ladouceur: I would not proffer an opinion. If the Commissioner of Official Languages has identified a rating for us, I accept it. Our obligation in the agency is to respond to it and to take the necessary steps to respond to those areas that he has identified as being critical.
We approach it by the various sections of the Official Languages Act. The Commissioner of Official Languages, based on his assessment, has given us a rating, and we are obligated to respond to it in its various components. We have taken some steps in various areas to address some of the critical issues that you talk about. However, Part VII is an area where we would like to reinforce the fact that we have done quite a bit of work on official language minority communities across the country. We have invested money and effort and have created a network of regional coordinators, and so on. In that regard, I am flattered by the commissioner's assessment that we have come out at a high level there. Of course, we have work to do in other areas.
[Translation]
The Chair: If you are comfortable answering questions that go beyond the scope of Part VII, Mr. Ladouceur, such as the question asked by Senator Runciman, we have no problem if you are at ease with that.
Mr. Ladouceur: Fine. Thank you.
Mr. Desroches: As concerns the grade given to the Public Health Agency of Canada by the Official Languages Commissioner, I would like to mention something. During the last three months of the year, or a bit more, that is, October, November and December, the agency did a great deal. The team's work was in fact remarked upon by the commissioner. In his December report, he noted a significant improvement in the area of official languages. In addition, the commissioner acknowledged that the shutdown of the complaints system was due to a lack of resources within his institution and not to the efforts made on the part of the Public Health Agency of Canada.
Senator Losier-Cool: Congratulations on the good grade the commissioner gave you. How did you manage to educate your employees about Part VII to encourage community development in health care?
[English]
Mr. Ladouceur: The answer to that is on a number of levels. At the senior management level, it is clear that we are obligated to take that into consideration and deliberation when we are talking about program delivery and such. We use human resources bulletins and send them out to our employees as well, to sensitize them to our obligations under Part VII. Clearly it is a communications effort at various levels, and I will turn to Mr. Desroches to talk to some of the other ones.
Earlier, I mentioned that when we are doing Treasury Board submissions and memorandums to cabinet — which, of course, given the nature of those documents, are very important within an organization — the fact that we have to do a lens of Part VII in there obligates not only managers and seniors managers but also those who are actually doing the program development to ensure that it is factored into those program deliveries.
[Translation]
Mr. Desroches: Mr. Ladouceur has identified one level of intervention. In our action plan, we have identified three levels. The first concerns community development and support. In this regard, our contact with the communities is a key element, as is our contact with official languages representatives and coordinators in the regions. A network was set up to enable us to hold discussions and see what is being done in each region. Thanks to this network, we can follow the projects that are underway and decide how best to support the communities. We can also request information to decide on which actions to take. That is the development and support level.
The second level focuses on raising employee and management awareness. In this area, there is still a lot to be done, because we are constantly striving to improve. We hold education sessions, and advice is offered directly to employees and managers.
The third level consists of ensuring that the official languages component, especially as concerns communities, is taken into account in all the documents, policies and programs on which the agency is working. For example, when we set up a health care program, we ensure that official language minority communities will benefit therefrom and be kept informed. In the H1N1 campaign, we ensured that the information was disseminated across the country, paying special attention to the communities.
Senator Losier-Cool: I understand that you work very closely with the communities and are attuned to their needs. What are your relations with the provincial governments like?
Mr. Desroches: In certain provinces, the ties are closer. I can be more specific though. In Winnipeg, I know that a project was set up to facilitate senior mobility, and we decided to target francophones. For the other provinces, unfortunately, I would have to get back to you with more concrete examples. These could certainly be raised in the next report.
Senator Champagne: In light of what you have said, we can see that you have made an effort to ensure that the services you offer Canadians are truly of equal quality in both French and English.
I would like to know more about the situation in your offices. Do the francophone employees of the agency feel free to use the language of their choice? Do you believe that they feel comfortable speaking French at meetings? Interpretation is often available, as it is here, and are people becoming increasingly bilingual? What is the situation at your meetings and in the drafting of various documents?
[English]
Mr. Ladouceur: I am not sure whether our employees would be categorized as a minority language community within our organization, but I think their response to that is that they are very comfortable speaking French. Our environment is bilingual. We respect all of that.
For employees that we engage for specific jobs that require the ability to speak French for service delivery level, we ensure that, in the appropriate areas, they are bilingual and can meet their language requirements. We have done well, but again, I am here to respond to Part VII of the act. The agency in general takes its obligations under the Official Languages Act seriously, and our environment is very bilingual.
I will make a personal note.
[Translation]
My name, James Ladouceur, comes from Ireland on my mother's side, whereas my father was French. I am thus comfortable speaking both languages, and I think I can say the same for all my colleagues at the agency.
Senator Champagne: To take proactive measures, as required under Part VII, you must sometimes help your employees become bilingual or learn the other official language. Do you offer language courses to your employees? Is there funding earmarked each year in order to achieve the ideal of our nation, that is where everyone can speak both languages?
Mr. Ladouceur: Yes, courses are available. My colleague, Mr. Desroches, can give you some figures. Our agency complies with the Official Languages Act. We also have the obligation to ensure that all our employees have the opportunity to learn a second language if they hold a bilingual position entitling them to training in both languages.
Senator Champagne: Perhaps we could go to Mr. Desroches.
Mr. Desroches: To answer your question, yes, we are working on strengthening these measures. When we were a branch within Health Canada, we used the services and memorandums of understanding signed by Health Canada.
When we became a separate agency, we continued our relationship with Health Canada. So yes, we continue to provide language training in both English and French to our employees. We also offer professional development training in private language schools. In addition, we use regional standing offers as set up by Public Works, in conjunction with the Canada School of Public Service, to provide training. Currently, we are seeking teachers who can offer in-house training. So this is something that is well covered.
I would just like to add that I am also responsible for the identification of linguistic profiles within the Public Health Agency of Canada. We review the identification of linguistic profiles within the agency very closely to ensure that we truly reflect reality. For example, we may receive a request from Saint-Hyacinthe.
Senator Champagne: That is a beautiful town; it is where I live!
Mr. Desroches: We work in conjunction with the Canada Food Inspection Agency. One might think that the linguistic profiles for the positions there are ``French essential,'' but the positions in Saint-Hyacinthe require level C bilingualism, that is, candidates must be able to read, write and carry out oral interaction.
Senator Champagne: Thank you very much. My question took into account the separation between Health Canada and the agency, and you answered it very clearly.
The Chair: Before turning the floor over to the next senator, I would like to point out that although we are targeting Part VII of the Official Languages Act this evening, we cannot speak of Part VII without referring to your agency in general, positions identified as bilingual, employees, and so forth. You are doing such a good job with Part VII because of your employees. We would like to understand the mechanism and how it works within your agency a little bit better.
Senator Tardif: Thank you, Madam Chair. You indicated a few times in your presentation that you use a Part VII lens when assessing any document, policy or program that is set up. I believe that in English, you stated —
[English]
I believe that in English you indicated that you used a Part VII lens in putting forward submissions to Treasury Board.
[Translation]
Can you please tell me which criteria you use as part of this Part VII lens?
[English]
Mr. Ladouceur: Yes. Guidelines are attached to the development of Treasury Board submissions in general. Treasury Board gives us a template that we follow when filling it in for the various areas. We can add in sections and add our own flavour to it. You will have to forgive me. It has been a year or so since I have done a Treasury Board submission. There is an official languages section, and we assess the impact of official languages, how official languages will be utilized under the program, and so on. That is there, and then we ask how it fits into Part VII.
We do public health across the country. For example, if we are doing a Treasury Board submission on a program that will deliver public health in partnership with the provinces, we want to ensure that minority language communities are supported as well. For the 12 programs we have done, which I mentioned earlier, all of the funds that go to those types of programs take that lens.
In terms of memoranda to cabinet, there is also a requirement to do an assessment around official languages as part of the activity that you would normally do. We look at this holistically, everything around official languages, including Part VII.
[Translation]
Senator Tardif: Did your agency develop this criterion for Part VII or is it part of a series of criteria that were provided, for example, by Canadian Heritage or the Privy Council?
Mr. Ladouceur: In general, the criterion is to conduct analysis of the official languages.
[English]
It is organic. It is everything under official languages, including Part VII. We do our assessment based on the entire Official Languages Act, and again Part VII is part of that. It is part of the whole piece. We do not set Part VII aside. We do our analysis on official languages with Part VII, on all of the aspects involved.
[Translation]
Senator Tardif: I think that is a good approach, but I just wanted to know whether it is something that is specific to your agency or whether it is something that is done across all departments.
[English]
Mr. Ladouceur: I cannot speak for other departments, but I would say that Treasury Board's template is fairly standard for everyone. I would make an assumption that other departments would do the same as us, but I have not been involved in their activities.
[Translation]
Senator Tardif: So it is you who applies Part VII to your way of doing things?
Mr. Ladouceur: Yes.
Senator Tardif: It is not a directive that you received from Canadian Heritage or Justice Canada?
Mr. Ladouceur: No.
Senator Tardif: Part VII refers to ``positive measures.'' I think our committee is seeking to determine how you define positive measures and whether you are creating any. How do you decide whether you have done a good job?
[English]
Mr. Ladouceur: For everything we do, we hope the effect is positive. The Commissioner of Official Languages has told us that we need to do a little more work around issues related to our performance measure. In terms of the positive effect of what we are doing, the programs and the steps we take are positive in the simple fact that we are actually taking those steps. In how we are delivering our services and the program assessment, we need to do a little more work around the performance measures to see whether it is in fact having an effect.
In general, the steps that we take for any type of activity around the official languages, including Part VII, would be viewed as positive. I have already mentioned some of the projects that we are doing in the various areas. We also talked about the work we do within the agency itself to promote French language within the work environment.
Mr. Desroches may have something to add.
[Translation]
Mr. Desroches: We did have principles that were applied and we took them a bit further. Concerning the contribution agreements, and H1N1 is a very good example of this, we have promotion mechanisms. One of the members asked earlier whether there are ties between the different levels of government and the provinces. I forgot to mention this, but it is an important and interesting point. We ensure that there are different organizations doing health promotion. However, the contribution is provided only if the organization can clearly show that the information will be available in both official languages. If the organization cannot prove that, then it will not receive the contribution, for example a site in Vancouver that does not provide services in French, or a site in Quebec that does not provide services in English. Such cases exist. One of our key players is located in Montreal and services there must be provided in both French and English. This is part of the evaluation that is conducted before the contribution is paid out. We are strengthening all the mechanisms for tenders submitted to Treasury Board, and memorandums to cabinet for this type of contribution to ensure that we have a strong presence on these committees.
Senator Tardif: Are you telling me there are linguistic clauses in your contribution agreements?
Mr. Desroches: Absolutely.
Senator Tardif: Do you ensure that they are respected?
Mr. Desroches: Absolutely. We work alongside the grants and contributions team to ensure that that is the case. The issue is how to work together — and that is a measure we are putting in place — so that we do not simply have a signature, so that we really are present with this group in order to support it and help it implement measures. Mr. Ladouceur was talking about mechanisms, how to have monitoring and verification mechanisms, to be certain they reflect the obligation under clause 32, the level of language and that it be respected.
Senator Tardif: That is good news.
The Chair: Mr. Desroches, are the linguistic clauses new in your agreements? Is this something that was introduced recently? Would this be a ``positive measure''?
Mr. Desroches: I came to the agency last September and it was already in the contribution agreements. Many of our contribution agreements are signed for a three- or five-year period. I am tempted to answer that this has been in our contribution agreements for some time, but I will check. My contribution within my team is to work together with the grants and contributions people to ensure there is compliance.
[English]
Senator Seidman: Good evening, gentlemen, and thank you for being here this evening. Consultation with the official language minority communities themselves is an important aspect of Part VII of the Official Languages Act. Throughout your presentation, Mr. Ladouceur, there is a genuine understanding of that aspect. You make general reference to strategies that you are using to achieve the expected results. Clearly, consultation is important to better understand the priorities and the situation of the official language minority communities.
Would you be able to explain, perhaps in more detail, how you ensure such consultation on a regular basis, especially in Quebec, with the English language minority communities?
Mr. Ladouceur: Our network of official languages coordinators across the country are our network to pull things together because they are on the ground within the communities in the various regions, et cetera. As part of the activities that we do around Part VII, it is communications and outreach to the various communities. Our coordinators build their networks at the regional level with the provincial partners and with the official language minority communities. That is our primary method of being in front of getting information and doing the consultations.
We use various other methods. We attend conferences and assemblies, et cetera, to gather information to ensure that we have our hand on the pulse rate of what is happening in the various regions and with official language minority communities as well. As has been mentioned in some of the responses to questions, we build it in to what we are doing through other mechanisms as well. If we are doing program development, we want to ensure that there is a component around that related to official language minority communities.
We do it in a number of ways, but primarily we do it through the network of coordinators that we set up. I think Mr. Desroches could flush this out more for you. However, I want to emphasize that, in doing this, in our role in public health, it is important for us to work in partnership with the various communities not only at the regional level but also at the provincial level. We do this through our regional coordinators and also through our regular activities as the Public Health Agency of Canada. Again, it is a holistic approach. We have identified people who are responsible for official languages and do that work within the various regions so that we have that connection.
[Translation]
Mr. Desroches: We are very involved in the communities because we are close to them. As an example, the Atlantic region organizes two conferences, one in May and one in June. In both cases, we are talking about health conferences in French that we would participate in in order to collaborate and make contacts. We have direct contacts with various communities and we use these means. When conferences or forums are organized, we participate in order to create much stronger networks; the same is true on the Quebec side for anglophone communities. Training agreements were signed between the University of Sherbrooke, the University of Ottawa and two other universities following an initiative that we worked on. We offer training and we ensure we have training for health practitioners, both anglophones or bilingual people. We set up support programs for people working in the area of health in order to strengthen their second language abilities. This is the kind of thing we do. Having discussions with the community often make us aware of the problems; care is available, but unfortunately not in the second language. We participate in order to intervene and have discussions with them. Everything is done in cooperation with the communities. We do not impose anything.
[English]
Senator Seidman: I have one specific question about the Official Languages Coordinators' Network. You said that it is comprised of representatives from the regions and from the National Capital Region. That is an important piece in the consultation process. Could you be more specific about who comprises this coordinators network and how you choose the people? Could you explain it in more detail, please?
Mr. Ladouceur: Mr. Desroches is the better person to answer that because he champions that. Some employees work in the human resources area; some are other employees within various groups. We have a list of names of the people, but I will let Mr. Desroches champion his groups there. He does a good job of communications with them.
Senator Seidman: Thank you.
[Translation]
Mr. Desroches: I will check the list. The list actually has 18 members. In fact, to be honest the committee is made up of 21 members. The reason why I speak of 21 rather than 18 is that Ms. Grondin, the official languages champion, receives the notices of meetings and participates in these meetings with the two co-champions that she designated, which gives us a total of 21 members.
We have official languages regional coordinators who are 100 per cent dedicated to official language issues. We have human resources managers; official languages is part of their portfolio. I am also part of this committee as the national coordinator and official languages manager for the Public Health Agency of Canada.
The grants and contributions manager is also part of this committee. We created this initiative in order to raise awareness and in order to have a very open discussion. There are representatives across Canada. On the first Thursday of every month, we discuss various issues all afternoon via teleconference: what has unfolded over the course of the month, upcoming activities and forums, problems we have encountered, exchanges, updates to the three- or five-year action plan, et cetera. For example, in the most recent issue of Bulletin 41-42 from Canadian Heritage, the agency has an article following up on a network initiative.
At the network, we told ourselves it would be a good thing for the agency to position itself and collaborate on that, and we wrote an article on early childhood. The membership is varied, but these are all people who have as some part of their responsibilities or portfolio something that concerns official languages, more specifically at the community level.
Senator Seidman: Thank you very much.
The Chair: I have another question following on Senator Seidman's: when you refer to these people, these 18 coordinators, are these employees who have official languages responsibilities as well as other responsibilities?
Mr. Desroches: Some, yes. Official languages would be part of their responsibilities.
The Chair: Are these positions designated bilingual? Can these employees speak both languages?
Mr. Desroches: Yes, absolutely. I will be quite frank with you, within the monthly meetings of the network, we speak both languages and we alternate between one and the other. A question may be asked in English and the answer given in French. In fact, we take advantage of that in order to be a model and to try and promote this aspect, by saying that we have a network of official language coordinators, we have monthly discussions on different issues and we do so in both official languages. At the same time, as Mr. Ladouceur was saying earlier on, the upper management committees do so as well. It is very fluid, we switch back and forth between the languages.
The Chair: I have in the past heard, in other departments, some employees of those departments say that when official languages were a part of their responsibilities, in some cases it meant additional duties, and sometimes, these people burnt out because there was so much work, and awareness-raising work, as you certainly know Mr. Desroches.
In the case of these positions, have they been filled by the same people for several years or is there a certain turnover?
Mr. Desroches: I came in September and there are many key people whose names I have been able to see in different reports. During the exchanges we had, when the question of how long they had been with the agency was raised, some of the employees were with Health Canada in the past working on official languages; they then moved to the Public Health Agency and continued working in the same area.
I would also say that the committee has grown. Last September — and this was an initiative that was launched well before my arrival — we appointed human resources counsellors in each of the five regions. When they were hired, it was part of the merit criteria and their job description. We said: here are the issues you will be responsible for, and official languages will be one of them. It is not something that was decided afterwards. These five employees have been resources since the month of September and it is very refreshing because they are agency employees, very involved in human resources issues overall, but also very involved in terms of official languages. As far as they are concerned, this is not something that was added to their duties, but it was an integral part of the position when they applied for it.
Senator De Bané: The 2007-2008 report of the Official Languages Commissioner states that you are in the process of developing new policies on the language of work and service delivery. He said that this was in the process of being done. Are the policies complete? Are they ready and can they be distributed? Have these policies been completed today, in 2010, or not?
Mr. Ladouceur: I would say not. I apologize, but I am not aware of these policies.
Senator De Bané: They are mentioned in the Official Languages Commissioner's performance report for fiscal 2007- 2008.
Second, have you developed mechanisms to monitor service delivery in offices designated as bilingual? You see, I have noticed that, when the Canadian government signs an agreement, it has an idea of what it wants to achieve. However, the project specifications can be interpreted by the other contracting party in a certain way; it might think it has met the obligations, but that is not what the government had in mind. How clear are your project specifications in the interest of avoiding any ambiguity?
For example, regarding the opening ceremonies of the Vancouver Olympic Games, when I read the contract, it was obvious to me what the federal government wanted to achieve. Yet VANOC authorities felt they had completely met their obligations, when in fact this did not at all reflect the interpretation of the Minister of Canadian Heritage. Therefore, it is very important that you develop mechanisms to ensure that service delivery truly meets your requirements.
I have another question: Do you consult with minority official language communities when you develop your policies?
[English]
To what extent are those communities really consulted to get their feedback on whether they feel comfortable with the services they are getting with respect to official languages? Do you have a survey to get that feedback? When I go to a hotel, I receive a request for feedback by email — How was the service? Are you happy? Is there anything we can improve? Do you have a similar type of check?
[Translation]
Mr. Ladouceur: As far as I know, for now the answer is no, I do not think so.
[English]
Yes, we do go out to the communities to consult. Are the communities satisfied? I take your point; we have not done a survey to ask how we are doing thus far. As I noted in my opening remarks, we took on our responsibilities from Health Canada late in 2007, so we are into a cycle of developing and putting our own positions out there. Your point of going out there to ask what the feedback would be is very good.
The Commissioner of Official Languages also pointed out to us that one of our needs would be to develop our performance measures of how we are doing. Again, this is one of the areas we are obligated to address. As my colleague Mr. Desroches has noted, he is relatively new to the organization, and so am I. Since we have been there, we have recognized the fact that while we have some certain obligations that we need to take care of immediately, our ability to get the feedback from our clients is something we definitely need to work on.
I do not know whether Mr. Desroches would like to provide some answers, but certainly your point about our ability to assess how well we are doing that is very well made. In terms of the feedback from our network, that question could be raised at the next coordinators' meeting, which we have every Thursday, and this might be something we should be looking at in getting that feedback.
[Translation]
Mr. Desroches: As far as active offer is concerned, do we have a follow-up mechanism which would allow us to conduct random checks? No, we generally do not have such mechanisms. Our mandate is also different from Health Canada's, which must apply certain measures because it provides a direct service to the public.
The agency must produce results, which are different when you are working in the public health sector. We have less direct contact with Canadians than does Health Canada, which provides a much more active offer.
Take, for example, quarantine officers, whose work in airports really does involve providing an active offer. Yes, we conduct checks to guarantee that we do indeed provide the service.
More specifically, during the Vancouver Olympic Games, we made sure we actively offered services in order to serve not only Canadians, but anyone arriving to or leaving from Vancouver.
If, during a shift, a quarantine officer could not provide service in both official languages, he would have cards on him which he could show to a traveler, and then a colleague would take over. The cards were in both official languages. The quarantine officers had also been trained on how to proceed. That is how the quarantine officers working during the Olympic Winter Games operated. We carefully monitored the active offer. I cannot provide you with a more general answer than that.
I have another small point, concerning the Atlantic region where we are very much involved in policy review, in concert with communities.
Senator De Bané: I have noted the commissioner's point to the effect that they are developing policies. That is what he said he 2007-2008 and it would seem it is not yet done.
Under your mandate and with the stakeholders you work with, I note that there are scientists, a host of stakeholders and governments; communities as well, through community groups. That is the answer you gave me and I hope it is a good reflection of the type of relationship you have with them.
Regarding your own francophone employees on the one hand, to what extent did they feel comfortable using French in meetings? And on the other hand, how comfortable are they drafting their reports to senior management in French? Do they feel comfortable speaking French at all meetings? Do they feel comfortable or do they assume that if the chair only speaks English it would be preferable for them to speak English? What can you tell us about that?
Mr. Ladouceur: Based on what I see, all of my colleagues, the directors and employees are comfortable speaking French if they so choose. Are people comfortable speaking French throughout the agency? I would say so. I am a member of a senior management committee and there is no problem with people responding to my questions in French. I personally sometimes receive reports or memos written in French. There is no problem with that because several of my employees are more comfortable in French. And I encourage them to send in memos and communications in the language of their choice. In general within the agency, I would say yes.
I do not have before me the results of the public service poll on the agency, but if I recall one of the questions was whether the individual felt comfortable speaking the language of his or her choice. I think we did well, but I do not have the figures with me here today. Do we have work to do with our colleagues throughout the agency at all levels? Of course we do. It can sometimes happen that English speakers may sometimes be shy about speaking French. It is about promoting a bilingual environment within the agency. People are sometimes more and sometimes less comfortable.
The key figures for you will be those resulting from the public service poll strictly on our agency. I can provide this data to the chair. I do not have the figures with me here today.
Mr. Desroches: I do not have the information at this point but I can get back to you with that information.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: First of all, what are the missing aspects to full implementation of Part VII? Second, do you believe the government should adopt regulations to provide a framework for the application of Part VII? If so, what criteria should these types of regulations include?
Mr. Ladouceur: Regarding the second part of your question, I am not in a position to say anything regarding what the government can or cannot do.
[English]
Should the government, the parliamentarians, in their wisdom, decide to enact regulations, we would just react to them and attempt to meet their requirements.
[Translation]
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: But you have had an opportunity to observe things. Do you think there are some missing elements to a full application of Part VII?
Mr. Ladouceur: Part of the response will come from the internal administration within our department. I would imagine the response would be the same for all programs. Sometimes there is not enough funding. Programs want to receive funds and then there are negotiations within the department. I would like to be spending more than we have to date on this issue, but the budget needs to be divvied up amongst all the programs. That is one of the obstacles I face. In general, we are now in a good position to improve our efforts.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: You mentioned that some francophone communities in the Maritimes are complaining. Those in New Brunswick believe their constitutional rights are being violated, given the existence of the two management systems, one supposedly bilingual and the other anglophone. Égalité is a group that challenges the reforms and has gone before the courts.
You have attended conferences in the Maritime provinces. Aside from that, what other measures could you implement to help communities?
Mr. Desroches: As far as consultations are concerned, we do more than just attend forums. We have meetings with the various communities. The measures implemented by the Public Health Agency of Canada are supported by the communities, with backing from the agency.
With respect to management and the fact that some communities feel cast aside, that is within Health Canada's purview rather than ours. We are quite active in the Atlantic and Ontario regions, more specifically Western Ontario. We have received no criticism from Atlantic communities regarding a lack of support. On the contrary, the communities are pleased with our presence. Any action is taken in collaboration with the communities. We take no unilateral decision.
The Chair: Do your regional coordinators play a role in the consultation process you have with official language minority communities? Do they have an active role to play in this regard?
Mr. Desroches: They are front-line participants.
The Chair: What does that mean?
Mr. Desroches: They are the ones that negotiate, discuss and meet with communities. Our regional coordinators have a mandate to act on behalf of the agency in the regions.
The Chair: Once they have met with the communities, to whom and how do they report back?
Mr. Desroches: Once they have met with the communities, once the goals, issues and activities are identified, we examine to what extent it is possible to support them. We are informed and the network informs us of what is going on. Then there is coordination with the regional directors who are linked in with the central region and with us.
Senator Champagne: With your permission, I would like to go beyond the issue of official languages. We do not get to hear from the Public Health Agency representatives on a daily basis.
I would first like to commend you for the extraordinary work you have done to warn Canadians about H1N1 and to tell them how important it is to be vaccinated. Of course, you have worked with important partners such as the Ministry of Health in Quebec or in Ontario.
Today, travelling between Saint-Hyacinthe and Ottawa, I heard that the World Health Organization was wondering whether there was some exaggeration as to the possibility of a pandemic. If this concern is found to be warranted, you will have some challenges to deal with if another pandemic situation were to arise.
The problem is not one of language, I agree. However, I wanted to follow up on comments that I heard on the radio this morning.
You have done an extraordinary job to properly inform us of the danger and convincing each and every one of us to get vaccinated. If the threat had indeed been exaggerated, to what extent would that hinder your future work? I am not referring necessarily to official languages. However, your message will have to be conveyed in either French or English. To what extent could that become troublesome and make your life more difficult?
[English]
Mr. Ladouceur: It is outside the scope of our work here.
Senator Champagne: I started by saying that, sir.
Mr. Ladouceur: I can respond to that. The Chief Public Health Officer of Canada has the mandate — that is, when he is apprised of the information, with the good science and advice that he receives at the provincial level and in consultation from the World Health Organization and such activities — if he determines that there is a public health emergency, to declare that and take the steps necessary to protect Canadians. He did that with H1N1.
To your point of whether he exaggerated or we did, I will not get into a debate on that. The issue is that Canadians were in danger. He took the necessary steps to ensure that we had the vaccines available to us, that people understood the risks involved and that we made available the vaccine across the country.
Again, it is the mandate of the Chief Public Health Officer of Canada to ensure the safety of Canadians. It is his determination to ensure that if something needs to be addressed for the safety of Canadians that he takes those steps to address it. H1N1 was a good example of what can be done at all levels of government to ensure the safety of Canadians.
Senator Champagne: Thank you very much. You made us aware. We all got the vaccine; we are all here; and we are all healthy.
[Translation]
The Chair: On behalf of the committee, I would like to thank you for your presentation and for having answered our questions. I encourage you to keep up the good work you have undertaken.
Honourable senators, I will call an end to the public part of our meeting. We will pursue our discussions in camera to deal with future business.
(The committee continued in camera.)