Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 9 - Evidence - Meeting of April 30, 2012
OTTAWA, Monday, April 30, 2012
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day at 5:02 p.m. to examine the use of the Internet, new media and social media and the respect for Canadians' language rights.
Senator Maria Chaput (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Honourable senators, I call the meeting to order.
Welcome to this meeting of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages. I am Senator Maria Chaput from Manitoba, chair of the committee.
Before introducing the witnesses appearing today, I would like to invite committee members to introduce themselves.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Suzanne Fortin-Duplessis from Quebec City. My senatorial district is Rougemont, in suburban Montreal.
Senator Poirier: Rose-May Poirier from New Brunswick.
Senator Mockler: Percy Mockler from New Brunswick.
Senator Tardif: Claudette Tardif from Alberta.
Senator Losier-Cool: Rose-Marie Losier-Cool, another senator from New Brunswick.
The Chair: Thank you. The committee is continuing its study of the Internet, new media and social media and the respect for Canadians' language rights. As part of that study, today it will hear from representatives of Public Works and Government Services Canada, followed by representatives of the Communications Community Office.
We now welcome, from the Translation Bureau of Public Works and Government Services Canada, Donna Achimov, Chief Executive Officer, Donald Barabé, Vice-President, Professional Services, and Marc Olivier, Manager, Linguistic Services Division.
Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of the committee, I want to thank you for accepting our invitation to appear. First I invite Ms. Achimov to take the floor. Mr. Olivier will then present the Language Portal of Canada. Senators will then follow with their questions.
Donna Achimov, Chief Executive Officer, Translation Bureau, Public Works and Government Services Canada: Madam Chair, members of the committee, I am pleased to be here today to discuss Internet use, new media, social media and respect for Canadians' language rights.
With me is Donald Barabé, Vice-President of Professional Services at the Translation Bureau, and Marc Olivier, also with the Translation Bureau.
It is real pleasure for me to stand before this committee for the first time. I would like to take this opportunity to thank my predecessor, Francine Kennedy, for her dedication and excellent work as chief executive officer of the Translation Bureau.
[English]
I would like to talk to you today about the role the bureau plays in promoting linguistic duality and how our organization has included social media in our operations.
The Translation Bureau is one of the leading translation organizations in the world and the largest employer of language professionals in Canada. The bureau is the Government of Canada's centre of expertise in translation and in linguistic services. In addition to having been a service provider for more than 75 years, the bureau plays a leading role in terminology standardization within the Government of Canada and is the exclusive supplier of translation revision and interpretation services to Parliament.
In 2010-11, the bureau translated more than 1.7 million pages in all areas of federal government activity, as well as provided translation and interpretation services for over 2,000 parliamentary sittings and parliamentary committee meetings.
[Translation]
The bureau also manages TERMIUM1, the Government of Canada's terminology and linguistic data bank, which contains nearly four million terms in French and English. This databank is used by teachers, students, writers, translators and many others here in Canada and around the world.
Throughout its 75 years, the bureau has demonstrated an incredible ability to adapt to change. Because of this adaptability, it has been able to respond quickly to the changing needs of the Canadian public and the government, for instance, by leveraging new technologies and new ways of communicating such as social media.
[English]
For example, Canadians now have free access to TERMIUM and a host of other writing tools through the Language Portal of Canada.
We are also about to launch the TERMIUM mobile application. I will come back to these initiatives in a few moments, but you will be getting one of the first sneak previews of our new iPhone application.
In addition to issues associated with new technologies, there is the issue of instant communication. We are operating in an increasingly complex and interdependent world. Thanks to wikis, blogs and other social media, we are plugged into what is happening 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The bureau is now called upon to translate in these new media.
In this context, the Translation Bureau needs to make sustained efforts to modernize its activities and optimize its business processes. Accordingly, it has adopted a transformation strategy that encourages the use of new language technologies. The creation of the Language Portal of Canada is part of this approach.
The portal, which is funded by the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality, provides free online Internet access to a broad range of Canadian linguistic resources, including TERMIUM.
These resources allow users to hone their skills in English and French. Canadian Internet users can go to the portal to find everything they need in order to study, work and communicate more effectively in both official languages.
Aware of the popularity of the Language Portal and social media, the Translation Bureau has begun to develop the Government of Canada's first language-related mobile app. TERMIUM online will be launched this fall. Canadians with an iPhone or BlackBerry will enjoy access to TERMIUM with nearly 4 million French and English terms.
We are opening the doors to a whole new generation of Canadians for both official languages access.
[Translation]
As you can see, the Internet, new media and social media are fundamentally changing the way in which language specialists work. These tools also have enormous potential, as long as we are smart about how we use them.
I will now turn things over to Donald Barabé. Donald is a recognized expert in Canada in the field of translation.
Donald Barabé, Vice-President, Professional Services, Translation Bureau, Public Works and Government Services Canada: Madam Chair, members of the committee, good evening. I am honoured to be appearing before you this evening to talk to you about translation, my profession and social media.
I am going to cite a few statistics to provide you with some background. Although the Internet was designed in 1969, average citizens did not have free access to it until 1996. Between 1996 and 2001, there were already 500 million Internet users, and some 10 years later, today in 2012, there are nearly 2.5 billion. It is the medium that has experienced the sharpest growth in the history of humanity. Approximately one-third of Internet users have one of our official languages, English or French, as their principal mother tongue. There are also more than five billion cell phones in the world today, and we believe that, by 2020, there will be one per inhabitant. That is important because the cell phone is the prime medium for social media. That is where it all happens. The principal social medium in the world is Facebook, which will have one billion users by this summer. If it were a country, it would have the third largest population in the world.
So we see that social media have experienced phenomenal, explosive growth in the last few years, and the Government of Canada and the federal public service must naturally adapt to these new media.
[English]
Actually, the implementation of social media has been under way in the public service for quite some time because it represents a great way to connect with voters and taxpayers, to mobilize citizens and to do business. It is also a great way to provide for collaborative projects.
As part of the Department of Public Works and Government Services Canada, the Translation Bureau is proud to provide a range of innovative linguistic services using social media tools. As Ms. Achimov told you a few minutes ago, you will have the first sneak preview of our future application for smart phones and BlackBerrys in the next few minutes.
At the Translation Bureau, our objective is to help government departments meet the requirements of the Official Languages Act as they roll out social media into their internal and external communications. Government departments naturally have a main legal requirement pursuant to the Official Languages Act to provide the same information both in quantity and in quality to Canadians, and at the same time. The bureau is rising to that challenge. Believe me, ``at the same time'' is a challenge.
[Translation]
Our professional translators have a dual mandate. First of all, they have a mandate to serve the public by producing quality translations. For example, if we translate a public health advisory correcting an incorrect drug dosage, the translation must be perfectly accurate. They are also responsible for protecting the integrity of the language by avoiding the propagation of unidiomatic expressions such as ``bon matin'' in French or ``happy reading'' in English.
Social media provide the government with a new way of communicating with Canadians, a new way that has its own particular characteristics. But one thing is certain: they cannot make room for the notion of ``good enough''. ``Good enough'' is not good enough, either in law or in day-to-day reality. That is why, when translators translate, they must constantly bear in mind the requirements of the Official Languages Act regarding the offer of service of equal quality in both official languages, while meeting the deadlines that are imposed by circumstances.
As Ms. Achimov suggested, we are now entering the world of instantaneous communication, and this is a major challenge for all translators around the world. We are entering the field of simultaneous translation. And I am not mistaken; I did say ``simultaneous translation'', not ``simultaneous interpretation'', because, when people tweet on Twitter, that is done in real time, and the translation must also be done in real time. So that is a major challenge, but we are using our network of professionals, as well as technology, to address that.
Now I would be pleased to hand the floor back to my colleague.
[English]
Ms. Achimov: Marc Olivier, the manager of our linguistic services division at the bureau, will now discuss the Language Portal of Canada and the new TERMIUM mobile application.
[Translation]
Marc Olivier, Manager, Linguistic Services Division, Translation Bureau, Public Works and Government Services Canada: The Language Portal of Canada was launched in October 2009. It is currently a very big success with Internet users wanting to improve their English and French language skills.
[English]
The website contained 1,500 free language resources when it was launched. It now contains over 2,800 resources.
[Translation]
The star tool of the portal is undeniably TERMIUM Plus, the second largest terminology database in the world, with more than four million terms in English and French. In 2011-2012 alone, TERMIUM users, at school, at work or in the home, did nearly 90 million searches in the database.
[English]
To provide even easier access to this extremely useful tool, the translation bureau is pleased to announce today that it will launch a mobile application of TERMIUM in the fall of 2012.
[Translation]
Users will thus be able to download the application free of charge to their iPhone, iPad, as is the case here today, or to their BlackBerry and find the right word in English or French.
As a major first, today, for committee members, I am going to use the prototype to give you a little demonstration of what the app will look like when opened.
I am going to click off the website and launch the mobile app. People who have a BlackBerry, iPhone or iPad will see this on their mobile app. I am going to do a quick search to show you this. I am going to tap the word ``tweet'' in the context of Twitter.
[English]
We will do a search from English to French, and there I will get the French equivalent of tweet, the verb gazouiller or the noun gazouillis or even ``tweet'' because it can be used in certain contexts, especially with the youngsters.
I can do another fast search from French to English.
[Translation]
I am going to tap the term ``internaute''. I change the search key from French to English and simply launch the search. Here again, I have three possible equivalents for ``internaute''. So that is a quick demonstration of the prototype.
We want to thank committee members for this opportunity to present it to you today as a first. We are now ready to answer your questions.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Do you think the legislative, regulatory and policy framework currently in effect in Canada is clear enough on the use of new technologies and respect for Canadians' language rights?
What do you think about the social media guidelines developed by the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat?
Ms. Achimov: In our opinion, the communications policies, and now with social media, provide public servants with good information on government communications in general and on the use of new technologies and social media.
We know that, like us, every department has guidelines that follow the Treasury Board Canada guidelines and policies, and that gives an indication.
[English]
It gives a framework in terms of allowing us to look at the appropriate use of social media, and it builds on a very strong communication policy.
[Translation]
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Are those guidelines clear enough or too restrictive?
Mr. Barabé: We think they are clear enough because they clearly recall the requirements regarding content of equal quality, in both the legislative framework and the Treasury Board Canada guidelines. This raises a challenge for instantaneous communications and requires public servants simply to plan a little further ahead. As regards the clarity of the directives, we believe they are quite clear.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: If there is a second round, Madam Chair, I would like to ask some other questions of a different kind.
Senator Poirier: In your presentation, you talked about translating words from French to English and from English to French. When you say that services will be available free of charge on iPad, Blackberry, iPhone and so on, will that be for the entire population of Canada or just for the public service?
Ms. Achimov: For the entire Canadian population. Now, on our Language Portal, to the right, that is now on the Internet. The value added will be the mobile application.
Senator Poirier: Are you going to promote that?
Ms. Achimov: Not yet because we are validating it to see whether everything works.
[English]
We are in the beta testing stages. We just want to make sure. We will do some quiet work over the next few weeks, and then we will start an advertising and information campaign.
Senator Poirier: You feel it will be in the fall when it will be launched?
Ms. Achimov: We are hoping it will be ready in the fall, in time for back to school, and we want to ensure that it works and that we can do the adequate testing.
Senator Poirier: Great. Congratulations.
Ms. Achimov: Thank you.
[Translation]
Senator Champagne: Madam, gentlemen, good evening and welcome to the committee. I have been a TERMIUM user for a very long time, and my daughter uses it too. When the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality became known, I must say that one of the things I was most pleased about was that TERMIUM would be offered free of charge because it was quite expensive to use TERMIUM at one time.
The roadmap contains a translation initiative, and since that is your area, Mr. Barabé, it deals at length with university scholarships in translation designed to attract, retain and graduate new translators and interpreters and to encourage students to go into careers in those fields.
My daughter is pursuing a career in that field, but, more than translation — she does not do interpretation, as do the angels that we have around us — she often has to do adaptation, not translation. For example, she takes an advertisement prepared in English for English-language television that has to be broadcast in French. So you cannot do a word-for-word translation; you have to do an adaptation. I believe that term should be used when talking about scholarships in translation, which is more than translation and the work of translators and interpreters, but also for people who do adaptation. That is quite a different world, but one that is part of what you do.
Earlier we had some terms that could be used in various ways, but adaptation is very valid because, for francophones across the country, and perhaps particularly for those from Quebec and Eastern Ontario, if the French- language advertising sent to you is a certified copy of what is being done elsewhere, they will not sell much if they do not have people who are really very good at adaptation. I am absolutely delighted that, as you said a few moments ago, this is becoming something that we can have, that there is a mobile application enabling us to have TERMIUM on a cell phone.
But to stay true to who I am, I have to find a problem somewhere. I checked TERMIUM and it confirmed that someone you want to hire for a position can be asked for ``références''. That is an anglicism. You can refer to an event in history. You can say that the dictionary remains a ``référence'', but to request ``références'' in order to hire someone is an anglicism. You have to say ``demander des recommandations''. I tried it again last weekend because I had to use the word ``référence'' in a document we were working on. I do not understand how the two words have become confused in the Government of Canada, why no distinction is drawn. I am willing to refer to what was said during World War II, but if I want to hire someone, I want ``recommandations'', not ``références''. Mr. Barabé, this is your field and I am listening. I am always like this. I always find a problem somewhere.
Mr. Barabé: Let us start with the scholarships. Yes, the purpose of the scholarships is indeed to attract and retain students. To reassure you about adaptation, that is taught in the universities. Every translation is an adaptation, but there are cases in which it is not really involved. For example, if I have to translate ``La table est faite en érable'', ``The table is made of maple'' is quite easy. When you get into theatre or advertising, that is very different, and that subject, very fortunately, is taught.
As regards the word ``référence'', that really concerns the terminology database. The Translation Bureau does not determine usage. In its terminology base, the Translation Bureau records word usage, and the word ``référence'' is used to mean ``recommandations''.
Senator Champagne: An anglicism, as you will agree with me.
Mr. Barabé: Initially, yes, but it has entered the language, as other words have done, such as ``leadership'', for example, and words like that. And we can lament the fact, but usage is king.
Senator Champagne: You cannot change your grandmother; when she wants to hire someone, she asks for ``recommandations'', not ``références''.
Mr. Barabé: That is entirely your right.
Senator Tardif: First I would like to congratulate you on the Language Portal of Canada and on your work on TERMIUM mobile. It will be very much appreciated by all Canadians.
Can you tell us what percentage of your budget is allocated to translation of social media content?
Mr. Barabé: We have not calculated it to date, but that is a piece of information that we may want to record following our appearance.
The texts are often sent to us in Word or WordPerfect format; we do not exactly know their destination, and we see only after the fact that they wind up on the Internet.
However, if I had to give an estimate for social media, I would say it is perhaps 1 per cent to 2 per cent, and it is growing. As for the Web, it is definitely more than 10 per cent, but that is really an estimate.
Senator Tardif: Can you tell us what portion of the translation budget is allocated to the other federal institutions' involvement in social media?
Mr. Barabé: It would be impossible for us to give you an answer to that. We do not have that information.
Senator Tardif: All right. Do you think translators are ready to meet this challenge of instantaneous communication? If so, how can you be sure? What resources would be necessary and how would you prepare them?
Mr. Barabé: The answer as to whether they are ready is yes and no. This is very new. The challenge is not so much translation as it is time, which is very short. And you have to think fast, especially when we are talking about Twitter, tweets. So the idea is to get a clear understanding of the author's thinking in order to render it. That is the challenge.
We train translators; to a large degree, they are also trained on the job, by translating, and we will use language technologies as much as possible to help us meet the challenges of time, shortness of time, instantaneous communication.
However, for example, last week we met with all the Canadian universities that teach translation, and they have not yet started to teach social media translation, but they realize that is the way they have to go.
Everyone has been somewhat caught short; matters are moving faster than we thought. The rate of social media acceptance is much higher than we imagined. When I said earlier that we had gone from 500 million Internet users to 2.5 billion in about 10 years, there has been a stunning increase in the use of social media. It is going faster than we are.
Senator Tardif: To ensure there is real equality in the use of Canada's two official languages, what recommendation would you make to guarantee that quality is not lost in the case of French for our minority communities, for example?
Ms. Achimov: Like all public servants, we must rely on our new Values and Ethics Code. We have a duty to offer services in both official languages. We have started discussions with our translators, interpreters and terminologists, and the adoption of this new code is a good opportunity to reinforce the importance of official languages. That is central to the public service.
[English]
It really is at the heart of what we do. By having discussions with the new launches of the new code, it gives the opportunity to talk not just about social media but also about the importance of having a culture and a workplace that is based on official languages and absolutely supporting citizens' right to have information in both official languages and quality information.
[Translation]
Senator Losier-Cool: Under Budget 2012, the government has asked many departments, including Public Works and Government Services, to cut spending. Will you have to reduce the number of your employees? Where will you cut?
Ms. Achimov: Like all departments, we are conducting an evaluation exercise. This is an important exercise, since, as we said, all the changes made to technology through social media have considerably changed the way we work.
The program cuts in other departments will have a negative financial impact on us. We have to review the way we work, react to the cuts and perhaps to the reduced demand from other departments. That is our big challenge.
Senator Losier-Cool: You know that our committee is examining the use of the Internet, new media and social media. A comment that we often hear in our committee is that social media are not accessible to all Canadians. Do you think the Internet and social media are conducive, if we can put it that way, to the development of the minority communities?
Ms. Achimov: I cannot talk about access. We know that, after consulting the minority communities and Canadians across Canada, we have tried through our Language Portal to target our content and the way we offer information so as to be as accessible as possible.
[English]
We have tried working with minority communities. When you look at the portal, you will see that it is not an identical translation; it really is an adaptation. We pride ourselves on having content and contributions from various community groups, which allows us to have the robustness in our content. We are hoping that through Internet access through public libraries and schools, we have managed to provide adequate and appropriate access to all Canadian.
[Translation]
Senator Losier-Cool: Are you able to determine who the most frequent users of the Language Portal are, apart from government services?
Ms. Achimov: If you look at the document on the Language Portal, you will see, in the middle, ``My Portal'', and then you have ``At school'', ``At work'' and ``At home''. This helps us target our content based on the three main user categories.
[English]
We have done quite a lot of work in looking at where people are going and what they are looking at. Certainly students and schools are key audiences for us, and we have organized the portal and the content to try to allow Canadians to have easy questions, whether they are students, starting a business in the translation industry, or people at home.
[Translation]
The Chair: I believe you said you had met with representatives of the Canadian universities.
Ms. Achimov: Yes.
The Chair: Those were francophone as well as anglophone universities?
Ms. Achimov: Yes.
The Chair: Do all the universities have what they need for the portal to be accessible to them? Do you think they have the tools to use this gift that is the Language Portal of Canada?
Mr. Barabé: Without a doubt, yes, absolutely.
The Chair: All universities across Canada?
Mr. Barabé: Yes. It is available on the Web to anyone who has access to the Internet. Students and the universities use it a lot.
The Chair: Very well. In the high north and elsewhere?
Mr. Barabé: Absolutely.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Our public hearings have shown us that the federal institutions that pay careful attention to linguistic duality at all stages of the implementation of their communication strategy, from knowledge of obligations to monitoring of results, are the institutions that perform the best. In your opinion, how can we encourage exemplary behaviour and ensure that appropriate strategies are put in place across government?
Ms. Achimov: That is a big and beautiful challenge for us. We have a number of sessions a year in which we share best practices with the official language communities. This is an opportunity, two or three times a year, for us to present a number of examples of best practices. They are beginning to use the Internet and social media now. These exchanges make it possible to share information among the official language communities. I also know that the communications people have their conference every year. That is also a good opportunity to share best practices with colleagues. Those are two examples.
We are always looking for best practices because that is a good opportunity for us at the Translation Bureau to advise our clients who may be starting new projects. And if someone else has started something and is having some success, we like to share that.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: My next question will be somewhat similar to those that Senator Losier-Cool has asked. For the official language minority communities, new technologies are an essential factor in promoting their vitality and ensuring their development. When we held our hearings, we saw that a number of initiatives had been introduced for that purpose, and many have already been established in the communities.
Young people are an essential factor in ensuring the long-term vitality of those communities. What means do you think can be used to reach them where they are and to do so in the language of their choice?
Mr. Barabé: I believe that the best example is the application. Young people are giving up their computers in favour of smartphones, which are in a way becoming their computers. Being able to put the Language Portal of Canada and TERMIUM within their reach, on their cell phones, is probably what will help them most, and that is part of our mandate. We are trying to disseminate, as much as possible, the tools that we have developed so that Canadians can use them as easily and as often as possible. An application such as this one should help them considerably.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Are you able to determine whether there are more francophone than anglophone users? We have heard some comments to the effect that more anglophones use new media.
Mr. Barabé: No, we cannot measure that. We know the number of searches that are being done, but we do not ask people to identify themselves or to complete a little survey because this is too instantaneous. That would be hard to say. However, if I look around in my circle, quite a lot of young francophones are using them.
Senator Poirier: Senator Fortin-Duplessis has already addressed the question as to whether francophones or anglophones use your site more.
With regard to translation, do you have more requests for translation from English to French or from French to English?
Mr. Barabé: More from English to French.
Senator Poirier: If I understand correctly, you cannot measure the percentage of people who visit the English website compared to those who visit the French site?
Mr. Barabé: Not that I know of.
Mr. Olivier: We could analyze the statistics and see who accesses the English site compared to those who have accessed the French site. We could draw some conclusions from that.
Senator Poirier: Between school, work and home, do you know which category of people uses your services most?
Mr. Olivier: Very good question. Here again, we would have to analyze the statistics very carefully, but I am convinced that it is increasingly teachers and students, so at school. At work, it is often translators and revisers. It is well distributed between those two categories.
Senator Poirier: That would be interesting to know. It would also be interesting to know whether your service is accessed more by francophones or anglophones at school, at work and even at home. If that were possible, it would be interesting to see exactly who we are reaching and what percentage we are reaching.
The Chair: If you have that information, could you send it to the committee?
Ms. Achimov: Absolutely.
The Chair: Thank you very much. If I understand correctly, your department is spread over five regions across Canada. The employees in those regions no doubt have access to the Language Portal. If they want, they can translate documents in each of those offices if they have a tool such as this, can they not?
Mr. Barabé: We already have offices across Canada, in all regions, and we already translate in the regions. Some people naturally use these tools to do their own translation for their personal use. They can do that easily.
The Chair: Does this not become an additional tool for those offices so that they can provide better service in both official languages?
Mr. Barabé: Yes, because, just by accessing the portal, they can immediately find the translation of a term or program or the name of an organization. That helps provide better service to Canadians in both official languages.
The Chair: In your opinion, do they automatically consult it or will that come?
Ms. Achimov: In late November, we launched a major advertising campaign to departments and offered them the link so that they could put it on every computer, in every department, for every employee. We have received a lot of emails thanking us. It is free of charge, but it is merely an internal advertising campaign just to encourage the habit. Just today, I received a nice email from Industry Canada. They have put the direct link on every computer. Even in our department, in Public Works and Government Services Canada, every time we install a new computer, a link to the Language Portal is on it.
Senator Tardif: In your presentation, you said that the bureau translated 1.7 million pages in all areas of federal government activity.
Was that all translation requests or just a portion? What percentage of the translation demand does the bureau do?
Mr. Barabé: Based on the latest statistics that we have, the bureau does slightly more than 70 per cent of the demand. The bureau is optional; departments can go directly to the private sector. They do so for 28 per cent to 30 per cent of the demand.
Senator Tardif: Thank you for that clarification. Does your bureau always have someone who checks the translations, or is that done by computer and sent out as is?
Mr. Barabé: No, it is never done by computer, even though the computer helps us, but not to translate to that degree. It is always translated by a professional translator, and some types of texts are reviewed once, twice or three times, depending on the importance of the text and its destination.
Senator Tardif: I very much respect the work of translators and interpreters. I know it is a very demanding job. Unfortunately, I must say that, in the texts I receive, the translation has been done by a machine, not by a human being who is thoroughly knowledgeable of both languages. So that must not come from your bureau.
Mr. Barabé: No, I do not think so.
Senator Tardif: It is always reviewed? How long does that take?
Mr. Barabé: That depends. Sometimes we can work miracles. We definitely adjust to circumstances.
Senator Tardif: Do you have an order of priority, depending on whether it is a document, a meeting, a Tweet or something on the website? How do you manage all that?
Mr. Barabé: The priorities are set by the clients as the texts are sent out. When we have conflicting priorities, we refer to levels higher up in the departmental hierarchy.
Ms. Achimov: We offer round-the-clock service. If there are emergencies, and that happens with some departments, an earthquake or something else, we offer service every day of the year.
Senator Tardif: I would like to go back to the question of resources. Do you have the necessary resources to meet the demand that is made of you, particularly with the increasing use of social media?
Mr. Barabé: Yes. We frequently call upon our private sector partners for that. That makes it possible to react to changes in demand. I believe we can answer that the bureau has the necessary resources to react well to the demand.
Senator Tardif: What is this partnership that you have with the private sector?
Mr. Barabé: Year in and year out, 30 per cent to 40 per cent of our work is done by the private sector. We enter into contracts with the private sector. As that represents a significant volume, we try as much as possible to have partnership-style relations with our private sector colleagues who help us deal with spikes in demand.
Senator Tardif: Is there some discipline in the work done by the private sector in those circumstances?
Mr. Barabé: Yes, and the bureau controls absolutely everything.
The Chair: I assume your partnership with the private sector is a good source of revenue for your department, is it not? You must sell your services.
Mr. Barabé: We bill all the departments for our services. As we are a government institution, we are not allowed to make a profit; so we bill only our costs.
The Chair: If there are no further questions from senators, on behalf of committee members, I want to thank you very sincerely for coming to tell us about what you do. That is very good and I congratulate you for that. It was very interesting. Thank you once again and keep up the good work.
Honourable senators, we now continue the meeting with representatives of the Communications Community Office, who will tell us about the cooperation among federal institutions on communications-related matters.
We welcome Monique Lebel-Ducharme, Chair of the Communications Community Office, who also holds the position of Assistant Secretary, Strategic Communications and Ministerial Affairs at the Treasury Board Secretariat Canada, as well as Stéphanie Hébert, Executive Director, Strategic Communications and Parliamentary Relations, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat, Communications Community Office.
Mesdames, on behalf of the committee, thank you for accepting our invitation to appear. I invite Ms. Lebel- Ducharme to take the floor, and senators will follow with questions.
Monique Lebel-Ducharme, Chair, Communications Community Office: Thank you very much, Madam Chair, for inviting me here to talk about the use of the Internet, new media and social media, and the respect for language rights.
With me today is Stéphanie Hébert, Executive Director of Strategic Communications and Parliamentary Relations at the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat. She is also a member of the Communications Community Office Steering Committee.
Given the secretariat's mandate, our exchanges are primarily with federal departments; however, we have made use of social media in certain situations, and Ms. Hébert will be pleased to tell you more about this.
As assistant secretary for Strategic Communications and Ministerial Affairs at the secretariat, I am responsible for the communications policy of the Government of Canada, the federal identity program policy and the secretariat's communications team. I am also chair of the Communications Community Office Steering Committee, which is why I was invited here today.
Before telling you about the role of the Communications Community Office, I would first like to briefly explain what a community office is. There are a number of different communities within the government: specialists in human resource management, financial management, internal auditing and procurement, just to mention a few.
Most of these communities are supported by an office or a group that carries out activities aimed at ensuring the community's development. For the most part, the goal of these activities is to support professional development, collective staffing and networking, and to foster the sharing of information. These offices or groups do not have a mandate, nor do they have any policy responsibilities within the government. However, they do play a key role in terms of the sharing of information about best practices and emerging practices.
Going back to the Communications Community Office, the CCO is funded on a voluntary basis by communications heads from federal institutions and has no policy making responsibilities, whether it be for social media or official languages.
The CCO is made up of federal employees assigned by their home departments. Its activities are established in strategic and operational plans, under the guidance of the steering committee. These plans are approved by the communications heads who fund all of the CCO's activities.
The CCO's mandate is to provide tools and mechanisms to support the community in its recruiting, training and learning activities. It also carries out specific research activities pertaining to various communications-related issues, within the framework of its information sharing role.
For almost 20 years now, members of the communications community have been using the Internet and emerging technologies to support the Government of Canada's communications with Canadians.
The communications community has been at the forefront of the implementation of initiatives using emerging information technology, from the posting of information on websites in the mid-1990s, to online services at the beginning of the millennium and the use of social media as a communications tool.
The Communications Community Office has played a key role with regard to the use of new technology in communications.
In 2007, the CCO set up the Applying Leading-Edge Technologies Working Group. This interdepartmental working group, along with three others, was set up as part of the CCO's strategic plan for the period from 2007 to 2010, which was approved by communications heads.
The working group sponsored public opinion research into emerging technologies in 2008, set up a centre of excellence on GCPEDIA and launched a social media tool kit for external communications in 2010. Over 200 members and 36 departments and agencies contributed to the development of this tool kit through GCPEDIA, the Government of Canada's internal social network.
Between November 2009 and March 2012, the CCO issued over 25 e-newsletters about emerging technology, including social media.
With the help of emerging technology, the work initiated by the Communications Community Office on emerging technologies has grown in scope, and there are now several hundred active participants from the communications community, as well as from policy centres and the IT and information management community, who continue to discuss this topic on GCPEDIA. Regardless of the communication tool used, respect for Canadians' language rights is enshrined in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, as well as in the fundamental values of the federal public service.
For example, under the federal identity program policy, both official languages must be given equal prominence, from a visual standpoint, in accordance with the official languages policy.
Respect for the equal status of the two official languages is also an integral part of the requirements of the communications policy of the Government of Canada.
In the majority of cases, government communications initiatives make use of more than one method of communication, and social media are among the wide range of mechanisms designed for this purpose.
Last October, you heard my colleague, Corinne Charette, Chief Information Officer, discussing the Guideline for External Use of Web 2.0. This guideline was published in November 2011 and, as Ms. Charette mentioned, the consideration of official languages was central to its development. In fact, this instrument requires that federal organizations ``actively encourage participation in both official languages.'' The guidelines also include an annex that provides practical tips to help departments comply with official languages requirements.
According to all surveys, Canada remains a leader in Internet use. Canadians are embracing communications technologies, as well as social media and all it has to offer, and this trend is expected to keep on growing.
Given its communications needs, the government must keep up with Canadians if it wants to be able to respond to their expectations in the official language of their choice, as provided for in the Charter, legislation and Government of Canada policies.
Thank you for your attention. I would be pleased to answer any questions you might have.
The Chair: Thank you, madam. The first question will be asked by Senator Fortin-Duplessis.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: It is really a pleasure to welcome you here today, ladies. My first question is not too difficult.
It is your department that prepares the guidelines that you then send to the various government departments. Have you seen any progress in communications in every department that now uses new media? And have they facilitated communications between Canadians and the various departments?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: The Communications Community Office began to take an interest in social media very early on, at the request of the communications groups of the departments that wanted to learn how to use social media so that they could use that form of communication as part of a set of communication methods.
Some departments definitely use social media more than others. At the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat, social media are used very much internally since we work with other departments. Last year, we had two very positive experiences with the use of social media. Every department uses social media in accordance with its purpose and targets the group it wants to reach by age, subject or other criteria.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Have the people in charge of communications in the various departments made any comments on whether French Canadians use new media more than their anglophone compatriots? And are French Canadians involved in new technologies in the federal institutions in the same way?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: We have two Twitter accounts at the secretariat, one in English and the other in French. In all, only 1,110 people follow our accounts. Of that number, 895 follow our English account and 212 the French account. However, we receive requests — tweets — in either official language on both accounts and we answer them in the official language in which we receive them.
As the technology enables people who have physical or other problems to communicate more effectively, to work more effectively with others, I believe that social media do the same thing for Canadians, regardless of their language of choice.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Could you ultimately say that, since there are fewer francophones across the country, the average might be consistent with that?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: Yes.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Perhaps francophones do not dare. We do not know.
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: That may be a cultural issue, but, based on the surveys we have seen, I would not be able to say whether it is francophones in comparison to anglophones, but Quebecers use the Internet less than people in the other provinces. However, that gap is closing with time.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Can you see whether the messages you receive in French come from francophone communities elsewhere in the country?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: We usually cannot determine where a message comes from. We know the language in which we receive it, but not necessarily where it comes from.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Thank you.
Senator Tardif: Good evening, madam, and welcome. I found the presentation very interesting. I admit I was not very familiar with the work of the Communications Community Office, and even its title, Communications Community Office, is definitely interesting. You clearly explained in your presentation what the term ``community'' means.
If I understand correctly, one of your functions is to work in cooperation with other departments and agencies. Do you have the opportunity to work with established federal government networks such as the Network of Official Languages Champions or the Network of National Coordinators Responsible for the Implementation of Section 41 of Part VII of the Official Languages Act?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: Our responsibility is communications within the secretariat and, in our communications function as such, it is Stéphanie's team; we support the group within the Treasury Board Secretariat that works with the official languages network. We work with the Office of the Chief Human Resources Officer to prepare the communications products necessary to the work of the official languages group in that directorate.
In that way, yes, we have a role to play, but not an active or prominent role. We mainly prepare communication products to support those activities.
Senator Tardif: You said you did not have a responsible policy role for either social media or official languages.
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: I am talking about the Communications Community Office because the secretariat plays a policy role. You have previously met my colleague, Marc Tremblay, on two occasions. He is responsible for the official languages policy. In my everyday work, I am responsible for the communications policy and the identity coordination policy, but the Communications Community Office is really a separate group funded by the communications heads on a voluntary basis. That group works to support the community and not official work. Most of the work is done with regard to human resources, recruitment. The group will undertake collective recruitment efforts. Let us say there is a shortage of resources at some level; the office will undertake a collective recruitment activity. The departments will support that activity by sending out people who will conduct the interviews. That gives us a list of people who have the skills and whom the departments can hire.
This is really support work that is done for the communicators' work and that also consists in ensuring their viability within the public service.
Senator Tardif: You could essentially be working to recruit citizens whose mother tongue is neither English nor French?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: We require that communicators have a bilingual linguistic profile because we have to serve Canadians in both official languages. Consequently, most communicators in the public service have a bilingual linguistic profile. We do not hire people who have another language unless there is a specific need in a department.
Senator Tardif: Thank you for that clarification.
The Chair: When you say that the Communications Community Office is funded on a voluntary basis, what does that mean?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: Every communications head will provide an amount to the office.
The Chair: From his or her department?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: Yes, from its operating budget. Those who participate do so on a voluntary basis. Some departments take part, and participants may receive services. Consider the Communications Community Office, for example. I will cite my collective recruitment example again. Let us say the office organizes a collective recruitment activity. Every year, the departments allocate funds to support the Communications Community Office and to pay the salaries of its employees. We have roughly a half dozen employees, although the number is declining in view of our budget situation. Those who participate by giving their time may recruit from lists of candidates that we have established in the process.
Senator Tardif: Why would those departments use your services rather than do it themselves? For what purpose are you asked to recruit collectively?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: Let us say we have a shortage of communicators at a given work level.
Senator Tardif: These are people who would work in communications?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: These are people whom we must recruit to our communications teams. So we conduct an outside competition. In a competition of that scope, we have a greater chance of getting a larger number of candidates for those positions. Then every department makes job offers based on the list of qualified candidates. Recruitment takes a lot of time. Rather than have five or six departments conduct one recruitment process each, we conduct a collective process. Some departments will send us someone to help the members of the office conduct the interviews. Then everyone can benefit from the lists that we have established.
Senator Losier-Cool: This is a new issue for me. How long has the group been in existence?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: Roughly since the 1990s.
Senator Losier-Cool: Are the same departments still participating or do they change retaining a weight proportionate to the size of the department?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: The departments vary. Some departments that are in a very tight budgetary situation tell us that they cannot participate. Then, two or three years later, they come back.
I am committee chair and with Ms. Hébert we are members of the steering committee. Our meetings are held at lunch time. So this work is done in addition to our daily duties.
Senator Losier-Cool: How are the steering committee members selected?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: Once again, people volunteer. They are directors general from certain departments. We currently have 12 members on our committee and representation from certain bigger departments and some smaller departments. Normally, we always have a representative from outside the National Capital Region.
Senator Losier-Cool: How much can it cost federal institutions to get into social media? We can talk, for example, about funding, about translation.
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: Our involvement in the secretariat is quite limited.
Stéphanie Hébert, Executive Director, Strategic Communications and Parliamentary Relations, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat, Communications Community Office: It all depends on the activity. We use Twitter within the secretariat with the resources that we have. My media relations team also manages our Twitter account. They are the ones who draft the messages. We very often use texts from our news releases because we also want to encourage people to access our site for more information on the subject. We adopted that approach to ensure that we provide information and to encourage people to find more information on the subject.
[English]
Ms. Hébert: The other point is that oftentimes when we use social media, we do not use it in isolation. It may be done in context or in collaboration with another activity. For instance, when the secretariat led a consultation with regard to open government, we had an online platform. We used a survey tool we had that allowed people to provide their views on various survey questions we had with regard to open government. Parallel to that, to allow for an exchange of ideas, we had a tweet chat, where the President of the Treasury Board made himself available for 45 minutes in English and 45 minutes in French. He took questions from anyone who wanted to tweet a question. We aggregated the subjects of it and then posted responses.
[Translation]
So we have used two ways to communicate and share ideas with Canadians. The experience showed that we very often have to use a number of tools at the same time to encourage people to visit our site and to take part in our campaigns and consultations.
[English]
It is not a simple answer. I am sorry.
Senator Losier-Cool: No, I can understand that.
[Translation]
You have a role as a motivator or facilitator, if I can put it that way.
How can we draw a comparison with what are already called champions in the departments? That is not the same thing?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: No. The Network of Official Language Champions continues its work. At the Office of the Chief Human Resources Officer, the official languages team is there. That team supports the Network of Official Language Champions. The Office of the Chief Human Resources Officer is part of the Treasury Board Secretariat. We also have an official language champion in our department.
We support the work that is done in official languages across government, while supporting our official language policy centre. We also support our official language champion within the secretariat in official languages activities that we conduct within the secretariat. We therefore support two communications roles, one external, the other internal.
Ms. Hébert: Through the Communications Community Office, when they organize information sessions, they very often invite people to give sessions on official languages in order to show or encourage people to meet our official language obligations in using social media. We offer those information sessions to help people. We also see a sharing of information between official language officers and those who participate through the Communications Community Office.
The Chair: If I understand correctly, the Communications Community Office is a Treasury Board initiative?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: No.
The Chair: Where does it come from?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: The first committee chair did not belong to Treasury Board; he was not even a Treasury Board employee. For a long time, assistant deputy ministers of communications within the Government of Canada alternated in the role of community chair. The assistant deputy minister of communications at National Defence was the committee chair at one time.
Ms. Amyot, who was assistant deputy minister of communications at Human Resources and Skills Development Canada at the time, chaired the office's steering committee for a long time.
The Chair: Did the idea of creating the community office come from this group of deputy ministers? The idea had to come from somewhere.
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: Yes.
The Chair: It is a good idea, but where did it come from?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: As I told you, there are other community offices. For example, Ms. Charrette is responsible in her branch for information technology and information management specialists. In her case, funding comes out of her branch's operating budget. There is no operating budget in communications; there is no A-base, if you will. That is why funding is provided on a voluntary basis by the directors general of communications who want to join forces to do something for communications, whether it be with regard to human resources or information sharing. That is how the first social media working group was born; the directors general of communications raised that in one of the community office's strategic plans, and the decision was made at the time to provide funding to support that.
Senator Mockler: I sense some confusion about what Ms. Charrette presented to us — you referred to that on page 4 of your presentation — and also over the more specific mandate of supporting the effort to recruit and retain managers, to support the use of new technologies and new media in official languages here in Canada. I also see that the CCO is looking for ways to improve communications with citizens whose mother tongue is neither English nor French. Is that true?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: The CCO established four working groups in its strategic plan for the period from 2007 to 2010. That was for the directors general of communications in the federal departments. We had a conference to set priorities. There are obviously groups in Canada that speak neither English nor French, and the directors general at the time wanted to share practices. How do we reach those people? Especially when we are talking about social programs, those people do not necessarily have the information they need to register for our social programs. That is where the idea of discussing the best ways of doing things came from. It is the same as the desire to communicate more effectively with Canadians. That is where the desire to share information on social media came from.
So long before we had a guideline on the subject, the directors general of communications, the people who were interested in social media, in the communications field and elsewhere, wanted to get together to see how we could use social media in a manner consistent with our policy in order to communicate more effectively with Canadians.
A lot of that work was done virtually on GCPEDIA, and that is how the CCO was able to put together a social media toolkit on GCPEDIA, even before we had a guideline.
Those people, on GCPEDIA, also contributed to the guideline that was issued in November. When something new comes up, some basic ground work has to be done before a guideline can be established. That is part of the work that was done by the CCO.
Senator Mockler: I have a second question concerning the technological barriers within the machinery of government that prevent a service that should be offered from being provided. Earlier I thought I heard that Quebecers use the Internet less than the other provinces. Can you extrapolate from that fact to Acadia, francophones outside Quebec? What impact does that have on them? Are there technological barriers that cause Quebecers and other francophones to use the Internet less?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: We do not have a lot of surveys on Internet use from one province to the next. As I told you, the survey I mentioned earlier was really done by province; it is difficult to conduct an evaluation outside Quebec, in the communities in Ontario or Acadia. From a technological standpoint, and I believe Ms. Charette talked to you about that, there are definitely improvements to be made because we are currently in the exploration phase, if you will; some departments are establishing or have various platforms for conducting consultations, for example. Perhaps it would be easier if there were a platform that all departments could use. I do not think that is necessarily preventing one group or another from participating.
Senator Mockler: Could you provide the information on each of those provinces? And, since this is the new technology era, have you come up with a mechanism to try to identify more francophones outside Quebec? When you say that Quebec uses the Internet less than the other provinces, I am concerned by that.
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: I am going to hand the floor over to Ms. Hébert, who has experience with the consultation we conducted on the red tape reduction initiative.
[English]
Ms. Hébert: The reason why I want to raise it is that it underscores that social media alone is not enough and that relationships and outreach are really key.
[Translation]
In the circumstances, there were two consultations that we managed at the secretariat, including one between January 13 and March 25. We invited people to complete a form and to tell us about the problems they encountered when they tried to obtain services from the government.
[English]
We had an online consultation, and then we went and did round tables, and there was also an invitation sent out to various communities to invite them to participate. Among them was the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada, and there were a number of other groups. In this context, we learned it was not just enough to have a Twitter account and it was not just enough to do an online consultation. We actually had to go out and, through invitations, through using networks and communities, we had to really invite people to participate.
[Translation]
And we had a lot of success as a result of that, and I believe the participation rate rose.
We even conducted a second consultation to confirm what we had heard. That second consultation was held in September of last year. The reactions we got were very positive. I believe the networks are very important and we have to use the existing networks. Online consultations are an important tool, but we cannot forget communication in person, and online communication does not replace that approach. It is very important.
Senator Poirier: On page 2 of your presentation, you say there are a number of different communities within the government. There are specialists in human resource management, financial management, internal auditing and so on. You say that most of those communities are supported by an office or a group that carries out activities aimed at ensuring the community's development. Are those offices or groups located here in Ottawa, or are there any across Canada?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: Some are sponsored by the Treasury Board Secretariat; they are in Ottawa. There is, for example, the Office of the Comptroller General, which is responsible for financial management specialists and internal auditors. They do work with these communities; a lot of learning is done for which the office or the group will organize training.
For example, a conference is held every year; it was previously a two-day conference with communicators; now it is more modest. The CCO organizes a training day for communicators, and it costs the directors general of communication much less to send their employees there than to a conference sponsored by the private sector.
The same thing happens in these communities, but there are also groups across the country. For example, we have the federal regional councils that, in each province, bring together the representatives of the departments that are in those provinces; and there is a network of communicators that supports those groups. So, yes, there are some across the country.
Senator Poirier: Do those groups or networks across Canada know what other networks are doing? Do they share information across the country?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: One of the goals of the federal-regional councils is precisely to ensure that information from the centre or another region is shared across the country.
Senator Poirier: Would that be an example of how you use social media? Do you share that information through social media?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: Yes, but, within the federal government, we usually use our internal social media, GCPEDIA and GCForums. On those networks, we have an internal government wiki; people meet virtually on that platform. For example, the social media kit that was developed by the CCO's emerging technologies working group was done virtually on GCPEDIA. We post a draft document and people can go and make changes, and that is how the document comes into being. It is a very useful tool, particularly when we want to involve people across the country, but we use internal social media to put together an employee toolkit.
Senator Poirier: When you put an employee toolkit together through internal social media, is it offered in both official languages?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: Yes.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: My question will be very brief. Whether through your internal network or with external network users, I want to know whether you would be able to answer a somewhat unusual question. People who are blind, deaf or hard of hearing face special communication challenges. Do you think they have the same access to information as other Canadians?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: According to the guidelines that have been established for social media, in addition to meeting official language obligations, departments also have a duty to meet accessibility requirements. That is one of the basic principles. As I said earlier, social media and electronic tools, if created in an accessible manner, enable those people to participate much more than they were previously able to do. Computers talk; people who do not see well have tools that really enable them to access information and obtain services, even if they have problems such as those.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: I want to thank you because I was wondering about that; I was not sure whether they were able to obtain the same services as other people.
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: That is why, in social media, even though we send a 144-character tweet — that is not a lot — we always provide hyperlinks to our websites where information is available in accessible formats. If, for one reason or another, people are unable to access something, the communications policy requires departments to provide the material in an alternative format. That can even mean providing something in Braille where there is the demand.
Senator Tardif: You have given us a lot of information. However, could you tell us what you think your next big challenges will be?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: I will tell you about the challenges facing the CCO. Since all the departments are currently in a tighter budget situation, the office has considerably reduced its budget, and we are also requesting smaller amounts from the departments that want to take part in our activities. Consequently, most of the work that will be done in the coming year will really involve helping communicators who are looking for jobs or who are affected by the cuts. A little less work will be done on recruitment and social media.
Senator Tardif: So you ultimately anticipate an issue involving management of human resources, the human resources that you currently have and that will be affected by the budget cuts.
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: The CCO's priority for the coming year will be that and also to make sure we continue providing training. Those are the two priorities.
Senator Tardif: Do you anticipate that these cutbacks and staff cuts may have an impact on the use of social media?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: As Stéphanie explained, I believe social media are one of a range of tools that communicators use. They enable us to do our job more effectively. I believe that helps us have those tools in place so that we can do our work better.
Senator Tardif: Do you mean social media?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: Yes.
The Chair: In view of the study that our committee has undertaken, and for which you were invited this afternoon, since you belong to a network of communicators, the people who are very knowledgeable about communications, would you have one or more recommendations to make to us regarding that study?
Ms. Lebel-Ducharme: We recommend that communicators who want to use social media use them in a broader context. They should be one tool among many, and that tool should really be used for the right purposes.
For example, we at the Treasury Board Secretariat used that tool when we wanted to conduct consultations with Canadians. Social media are not really the best tool in the rest of our work. So you should really use the tool in the right context to reach the right groups.
The other thing is accessibility. We must ensure that when we use social media, we provide hyperlinks to other products that are on our websites or elsewhere.
Lastly, we have to promote participation in both official languages.
The Chair: Mesdames, on behalf of the members of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages, I offer my very sincere thanks. Your presentation was very interesting. We wish you every success.
(The committee adjourned.)