Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 17 - Evidence - Meeting of March 25, 2013
OTTAWA, Monday, March 25, 2013
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day at 4 p.m. to study CBC/Radio-Canada's obligations under the Official Languages Act and some aspects of the Broadcasting Act.
Senator Maria Chaput (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Honourable senators, I am pleased to welcome you to this meeting of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages. My name is Maria Chaput. I am a senator from Manitoba, and I am the chair of this committee.
Before I give the floor to the witnesses, I would invite the members of the committee to introduce themselves.
[Translation]
To my left, the deputy chair.
Senator Champagne: Good afternoon. Andrée Champagne. I am from Quebec.
[English]
With a name like that, I have to.
Senator Ringuette: No, you can come from New Brunswick or Manitoba.
[Translation]
Senator Ringuette: Good afternoon. I am Senator Pierrette Ringuette from New Brunswick.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Good afternoon. I am Senator Fortin-Duplessis from Quebec.
[English]
Senator McInnis: Bonjour. My name is Tom McInnis, from Nouvelle-Écosse. That will be the extent of my French, unfortunately.
The Chair: Thank you. The committee continues its study of CBC/Radio-Canada's obligations under the Official Languages Act and certain aspects of the Broadcasting Act. The committee has heard so far from over 30 witnesses, such as officials from CBC/Radio-Canada and the Canadian Radio, Television and Telecommunications Commission, the Commissioner of Official Languages, the Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages, researchers and representatives from anglophone and francophone organizations.
Several witnesses pointed out that young people, who represent the future, should be a major focus of CBC/Radio- Canada's strategies. Therefore, the committee took the initiative to invite youth representatives to appear so that it could gain insights into how young Canadians perceive CBC/Radio-Canada's linguistic obligations.
The committee is pleased to welcome today three representatives of Canadian Youth for French: Justin Morrow, founder and president; Christie Dennison, vice-president; and Anna Parkhomenka, member of the board; and two delegates of the Quebec Community Groups Network, David Hodges and Rae-Anna Maitland.
[Translation]
Welcome to the committee. On behalf of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages, I thank you for taking the time to come here and give us your views on our study.
[English]
The committee invited each of you to make a five-minute presentation. You will now have the floor, and senators will follow with questions. I believe we start with Mr. Morrow.
[Translation]
Justin Morrow, Founder and President, Canadian Youth for French: Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for inviting us to join you today. I am the president and founder of Canadian Youth for French. Our organization's goals are to foster a greater appreciation of French and to increase the number of bilingual Canadians in English Canada.
With me today are two of our board of directors, Ms. Dennison, our Vice-President and Ms. Parkhomenka, a board member. Before going any further, I would like to thank you for specifying that you wanted to hear from new Canadians whose mother tongue is neither English nor French. That is why we asked Anna to sit on our board of directors and we are pleased that she is here with us today. Thank you and well done!
Since I am sure you are wondering how our organization came about, I should share my personal story as founder with you. That will lead right into the reason why the organization exists and our activities. Once you know what we do as an organization, I will give you my personal opinion about your study and then sit back so that Anna and then Christie can speak and share their views. I will then wrap up by giving you a general overview of Canadian Youth for French, if that works for you.
My personal story: in 2006, I was an English-Canadian kid, pretty normal in the sense that I spoke not a word of French. I gave up French after grade 9, with a 55 per cent average, like most kids. Maybe it was not that low, but there were other things to do in life. I had no need for French, and that was that. But I was a little different from most kids in that I was good at football. I played football and, in 2006, Laval University's team, the Rouge et Or, recruited me on condition that I learned French and did my undergraduate degree in French. That offer was nothing like anything I had had before, but, since I had basically nothing to lose, I jumped in with both feet. Three years later, I had learned French, earned a bachelor's degree in French in business administration and had won two Canadian championships at football. I was a real student for the first time in my life, having received honours for two of the three years. I had an incredible professional experience in Vancouver because of French and some even more incredible international experiences, also because of French.
It was when I was thinking back on how my life has changed since I began to learn French that I felt compelled to share my experiences with other young English-Canadians so that they too can benefit from what French has to offer.
As a result, the organization was born. As I told you, our organization exists to foster a greater appreciation of French and to increase the number of bilingual English-Canadians. We foster greater appreciation and we increase the number of bilingual Canadians.
The first thing we do, using our website, is to promote French and its benefits to anglophones through testimonials. The second thing, and this is perhaps our main activity, is the CYF Discover Zone. To conceptualize it a little better, though this may not be the best analogy, it is kind of like a dating site, a social network. But, instead of looking to bring a man or woman into your life, you are looking to bring a postsecondary opportunity in French into your life. You say what you want to do and the program provides college and university opportunities, forums and community exchanges, say in Manitoba, or elsewhere. That is our main activity. That is basically what we do.
It is really tailored to each individual and to what that individual is looking for as a way to learn French or improve it. It is appreciated. That is basically the organization we represent.
[English]
That concludes the crash course on Canadian Youth for French. I will now get into the real reason we are here today and our viewpoint on CBC/Radio-Canada. You were kind enough to present us with a few questions, and I will just go through each one of those. We will go through each one of those individual questions.
When it comes to what does CBC/Radio-Canada means to me personally, when I think of CBC/Radio-Canada, I think of a news and entertainment source that every Canadian should have the right to, no matter how poor they may be. I am not sure how everything works with the new digital age, but when I think of CBC/Radio-Canada, I think of somebody in the middle of nowhere who does not have access to cable or Internet, but they can have access to the public broadcaster. That is what I think.
What role does CBC/Radio-Canada play in your life? Radio-Canada is my main source of news, but it is definitely not my main source of entertainment.
Do I consume CBC/Radio-Canada? I do not have a TV, so I do not watch TV through television. I watch occasional shows via the website on Radio-Canada and CBC, but not very much because I do not really find much interesting on the TV show side of things. However, the main thing that attracts me to any show I do watch is definitely the Canadian content. I love to see the things that relate to me, the places I have been, the experiences that I have had and the people that I have talked to. I like to see that represented in the show that I am watching and the shows that I do watch. It is pretty much what comes out. I saw a good one on Les Béliers about football. I never listen to the radio, CBC/Radio-Canada. I do not listen to that. I have my other sources of media for that. I use the mobile application a lot to get a lot of my news.
Up to this point, everything was going fine with my preparations, and then the committee asked me if CBC/Radio- Canada has a special role to play with Canada's youth and what my expectations are of CBC/Radio-Canada for our youth. I debated for a few weeks about what I was going to say, and finally decided to stick to the reason that I am here before you today and tell you my ideal.
My ideal is that every Canadian understands, accepts and respects the many cultures that are represented within our country, and that every Canadian speaks both official languages. I know this is not realistic today. It might not happen tomorrow or in a year or 10 years from now, but ideally this is what I have dedicated my life towards. By the time that I pass on and move on, I want to ensure that we have maximized the amount of people that speak both official languages. This being said, when I look at CBC and Radio-Canada, we see CBC in English and Radio-Canada in French and the two worlds do not coexist in a world where we have the majority. In my ideal world, where everybody speaks both languages, it would be just one unit where it would show us. This unit would be the thing that teaches us how to communicate together, the two linguistic solitudes.
That is my ideal and personal opinion. It is not that of the organization. I think have burnt my time, so I will let Ms. Parkhomenka carry on.
[Translation]
Anna Parkhomenka, Member of the Board, Canadian Youth for French: Thank you very much. I have been living in Vancouver, British Columbia, for almost three years. Before immigrating to Canada, I completed my bachelor's degree at the Minsk State Linguistic University in Belarus.
The fact that I did not speak English very well did not stop me from coming to Vancouver. I could have gone to Quebec, where it may have been easier to settle in. But to me, immigrating is not just a matter of changing locations. I wanted and I still want to be a Canadian citizen. And I do not feel that being a citizen is just about having a passport. To me, being a Canadian means being able to express myself in both English and French, having a degree from a Canadian university—I am studying towards my second degree in political science and public administration—and being a full member of society.
When I heard about the CYF, I felt that I absolutely had to become part of this ambitious team because the ideal of a bilingual Canada corresponds to my ideal of my new country. Once I was in a totally English environment, I managed to keep up my French mainly thanks to Radio-Canada. I continue to watch Le Téléjournal on Radio-Canada and The National on CBC. First of all, these programs helped me to improve my French and English, and they help me learn more about my country and better understand the issues facing Canadian society.
Since I am a full-time university student and have a job as well, finding time to watch TV is getting more and more difficult. However, I love the CBC/Radio-Canada website. You can find all the shows there, including my favourite ones. I have visited TOU.TV a few times. I find that it is a very practical, modern resource for busy people who cannot watch the programs live.
The programs are available online at any time of the day or night. Everything is free and well organized. In an ideal situation, I would like CBC/Radio-Canada to be a means of bringing together young people from anglophone and francophone communities. Because right now, as Justin said, programs are either strictly in English or strictly in French.
I'd like to see young people from both communities come together through bilingual programs broadcast on both CBC and Radio-Canada. I think that having at least a few bilingual shows would increase young people's interest in the public broadcaster and gradually eliminate the tensions between the different communities.
[English]
Since I am representing both youth and immigrants today, I would like to give one last argument supporting bilingual broadcasting.
Being able to speak both French and English separately does not mean being bilingual. Switching back and forth between two foreign languages is another art. It has to be mastered, and there should be a show. I hope CBC and Radio-Canada could help me with that. Thank you.
Christie Dennison, Vice-President, Canadian Youth for French: Good afternoon, my name is Christie Dennison and I am vice-president of the Canadian Youth for French.
[Translation]
I learned French by taking French immersion in Fredericton, New Brunswick. My parents enrolled me in the public school system because they wanted to give me every chance of success in a bilingual province, and in a multilingual and multicultural world. After 12 years of French immersion schooling, I decided to continue my studies in Ottawa, where I worked as a House of Commons page. It was then off to university in Bradford, England, where I completed my master's degree in conflict resolution.
Thanks to my language skills, I have been fortunate enough to work all over the world in international cooperation. I have worked in Uzbekistan, as well as francophone countries such as Haiti and Senegal, and in a bilingual country like Canada, Cameroon.
[English]
I now work for LearnSphere Canada, a federally incorporated non-profit organization with a commercial mandate. Our goal is to provide incremental business opportunities to New Brunswick-based businesses in the areas of training and workforce development. I also manage LearnSphere's international development projects. I have a young family. My daughter is two years old and my partner and I are raising her in a bilingual environment in our home and in our community. My partner is a bilingual francophone from Edmundston, New Brunswick.
CBC and Radio-Canada both play a very important role in my life. I have listened to radio and television on CBC and Radio-Canada for as long as I can remember and since I was a very young child, I am told. These stations are still my primary sources of news, information and music in my current life. I primarily listen to the radio, both in English and French, on CBC Radio One and 2, Radio-Canada and Espace Musique for a combined total of approximately two to three hours a day. It is more on the days that I am home part-time with my daughter, during which we listen to Espace Musique together.
I occasionally watch CBC television, but I rarely watch TV at all, so that is a maximum of maybe 30 minutes two to three times a week. I do consult CBC News online for approximately 15 minutes to 30 minutes a day on average. I choose to listen to CBC and Radio-Canada above all other sources of news, information and music because there is no commercial advertising on these public broadcasters, and because I trust the source of information and news. I trust that it has been validated.
Regarding music, I enjoy most of the programming on CBC Radio 2 and Espace Musique above any other source of music that is available to me, and there are many. This choice of programming meets my needs and interests above any other media.
I firmly believe that CBC and Radio-Canada have a very important role to play among Canada's youth. Both stations are extremely important in communicating news, information and music, entertainment about Canada and to all Canadians. I believe that CBC and Radio-Canada represent and contribute to the growth and development of Canadian culture, which is something that they have in common with Canada's youth.
As a young Canadian, I expect the CBC and Radio-Canada to provide free, permanent, reliable and trustworthy news, information and music or entertainment without commercial advertising in French and English to all Canadians.
[Translation]
I would like to add that there is room for bilingual programming, mainly on CBC, not necessarily on Radio- Canada. And if that were to happen, it would catch my interest. I think there could be an appetite for that, at least in New Brunswick. Thank you. I will now hand the floor back to Justin to wrap up. He will speak to the interests of our other members very briefly.
Mr. Morrow: I think we are out of time. I spoke to our friends on the board of directors, so I have a summary. I can share it with you.
The Chair: You will have an opportunity to answer questions. Thanks for your understanding.
[English]
It is now the Quebec Community Groups Network and Mr. Hodges.
David Hodges, Delegate, Quebec Community Groups Network: I am here on behalf of the CQGN. My name is David Hodges, and I am a hip hop artist/producer, also a youth worker. I work for the Lester B. Pearson School Board in Montreal. I was a high school teacher for a couple of years, but now I am currently on a provincial tour that is also being endorsed — well, it is in collaboration with QCGN and being endorsed by the Quebec government. It is a project that is sending me to all the English-speaking schools in Quebec in hopes to inspire kids to identify with the Quebec culture. It is integrating music as well as doing workshops about specific issues that kids are going through on a day-to- day basis. I guess I was invited here today because I am sort of bridging the linguistic gap in a sense that I am bilingual.
[Translation]
I am proud to be a Quebecer, and that is what I tell people when I am at school workshops.
[English]
That concludes in terms of who I am. In terms of the whole CBC/Radio-Canada, I will address it like Mr. Morrow addressed it in terms of the questions and then with my answers.
What do I know about CBC/Radio-Canada? What does it mean to me? As most people should know about CBC/ Radio-Canada, it is a Canadian information hub that offers information on culture, politics, national news and international news.
What does it mean to me? It means a lot to me especially in terms of my childhood. I grew up with Hockey Night in Canada. It was something that allowed me to really just be proud to be a Canadian, to watch Don Cherry and Ron McLean talk and see Dick Irvin as a sports announcer who inspired me and my brother to actually become sports announcers. We were really young at the time, but having that time, even with my father, really meant a lot to me. CBC actually was embedded into my childhood without even me realizing it, but now that I am thinking about it, it really meant a lot to me.
What role does it play in my life now? I would say that it is maybe not as present as it was because I do not have as much time to watch TV or listen to radio, but when I do need information, I do tend to be checking on the CBC website for information about news or anything that is happening. Also, as a musician, I am really interested in terms of what artists are going through and what they are talking about, especially Canadian artists, and I think that CBC has really great shows for that. You have George Stroumboulopoulos Tonight, and he is exceptional with interviews, and I find he brings out the best in people in conversations, as well is Q, I can never pronounce his name properly, but Jian Ghomeshi. What I like about his show is I was watching something on Béatrice Martin, Cœur de pirate. He also includes Quebec artists as well. I really appreciate that. It does play a smaller role in my life.
In terms of the radio, I sometimes would listen to it, especially if I am going to be on the radio station, so I will listen to it, but also just being on the radio started encouraging me to listen to the Mike Finnerty show, and I am specifically talking about Montreal shows right now. Also, when I am in a traffic jam, instead of listening to music, I will be like, what are these guys talking about now, so I will just turn on CBC radio and just listen. I find that it is very interesting, but at the same time, I do not find myself always going to it just because I do not have time.
In terms of the last question, I will keep this brief. What Mr. Morrow just said was interesting. How does CBC/ Radio-Canada play a special role with Canadian youth and what are my expectations of it? He stated that CBC/Radio- Canada has this language segregation where CBC is English and Radio-Canada is French. Recently, I think yesterday, CBC music released a list. It is a subjective music list that a lot of music hubs do, but they basically said that the top 25 rappers, hip hop artists in Canada, all-time in Canada, and they went to explain all the rappers that they chose, and a lot of them are Classified, k-os, Shad, Maestro Fresh West who is an old school hip hop Canadian rapper and rightfully should get that spot, but they actually did not include any Quebec English hip hop artists. There are so many trend setters that have been around for a while, most notably The Narcissists, who is one of the most well-known hip hop artists in Canada, even if not the world. That is something to be desired, where it is also brought to my knowledge that there is a stigma that there are not any English artists in Quebec. My personal expectation of CBC specifically but also Radio-Canada is that we need to address the stigma that there are English artists in Quebec that are pursuing a career in Quebec as well. That is pretty much all I have to say. Thank you.
Rae-Anna Maitland, Delegate, Quebec Community Groups Network: I have a speech, so I will try to follow it because I timed it.
Thanks for having me here. Until recently, I did not really know that CBC had a website. I mean, you know that they have a website, but I had not really visited it, so today I visited it and I learned this morning from the CBC website that on this day in 1974 Peter Gzowski interviewed a very modest 13-year-old Wayne Gretzky about his hopes for a future in hockey, and that yesterday in 1989 the cleanup began of the Exxon Valdez oil slick along the Alaska coastline, so things I did not know. I feel like I am learning things every day, and I am glad to have been invited here in order to look at the CBC website and look at these sources that I had not really been exposed to before.
I am from the Outaouais. I grew up in Chelsea. I am anglophone, so English is my mother tongue. I live in Montreal, and I am a student in the theatre arts at Concordia University. I am studying things from acting to puppetry, theatre history, dramaturgy and many other things within. This all kind of boils down for me to story catching and storytelling, which is, I believe, the aim of the CBC in many ways and the reason why we were all here today, to ask the question: Are the important stories that need to be told being heard?
When I grew up, I was steeped with the CBC, radio and television. The disembodied voices of Barbara Budd and Stuart McLean were extremely influential in my childhood and seemed at times as much a part of my family as any of us. My sisters and I learned about our identities as critical-thinking individuals and as Canadians through the stringing together of the stories and interviews that we heard through the radio.
However, when I was asked to speak before this committee, it crossed my mind that I was not the best candidate, because I do not have a radio. I do not have a television. I do not really read written print media. I get a lot of my information from things like Facebook where someone posts something, which could be an article from CBC or many different sources, and then that gets shared and re-shared over time. I guess we are living in an information age that is kind of curated by its participants, which is kind of interesting. There is not this same kind of third-party mediator as with other forms of news media.
I was asking myself what is being lost when social media is my main source for news and the stories of my nation? What is the value of having a voice such as the CBC in the lives of Canada's youth? I find the Internet can be very overwhelming at times. I think everybody experiences that. There are endless opinions and information, and I often do not know where to go to and who to trust, really. After discovering recently that the CBC has this wonderful website full of this incredible archive, I have discovered that I have this reliable source within the Internet where I can get more information on present and past Canadian issues.
To give an example, last night, the Nishiyuu journeyers were in Chelsea, and I had not heard about it until a few days ago. I heard about it from my sister who lives in British Columbia and who is studying First Peoples studies, and she sent me this link, so I sent it to my parents, all through Facebook, and they found out about it and consequently got very involved in hosting the event. That was just kind of a way of showing how social media can activate us while maybe reporting can also give us the information that we need so that this morning I could go on to the CBC website and read something or listen to sound bites from along the journey.
In the summers I work in Wakefield, Quebec with kids aged 11 to 17 and we create short fictional films.
I learned from this work with local youth about what matters to them. If Canada wants to hear more about what youth are thinking and experiencing at this time, we need to get youth involved in the programming. Youth need to feel listened to and respected, not just tolerated, like I do being invited here today — not tolerated but respected. That is it. That is what I wanted to say. Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you very much.
[Translation]
The Chair: Senator Fortin-Duplessis will ask the first question.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I want to begin by commending Justin, Anna, Christie, David and Rae-Anna for making such a tremendous effort to become bilingual. You have not always had an easy time of it, but today we can see the fruits of your labour.
I have three fairly short questions. In your view, do the reporters at CBC/Radio-Canada provide enough media coverage to appeal to youth in the minority communities you represent? That is my first question.
Mr. Morrow: What we have observed, from our board of directors — we represent mainly anglophones, but we do have a minority of a few francophones — is clearly that they do not feel represented.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: They do not feel represented?
Mr. Morrow: Exactly. And we, as anglophones, tuning in to CBC do not hear anything about francophones, about the minority communities. And yet, they are our neighbours; we see them every day and we talk to them. But we never hear a thing about them on CBC.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: What previous groups have expressed to us, whether they represent adults or others, is the infamous problem having to do with CBC's French-language network and Radio-Canada in Montreal. They complained that coverage focused almost exclusively on Montreal news, and they always objected to the lack of coverage of their own province. People were really disappointed.
In your opinion, then, how should CBC/Radio-Canada go about doing more to engage young people in official language minority communities? Anna, I think you put your hand up.
Ms. Parkhomenka: In British Columbia, I just love watching the British Columbia newscast because that is my gateway to the current issues in the province. In addition, a few days ago, I attended a forum on the francophonie. It was featured on a local program. The problems and issues facing British Columbia's francophone minority communities were discussed; consideration is being given to creating more programming, more local shows. It is frequently a matter of funding, however. In British Columbia, Radio-Canada has representatives in Vancouver and Victoria, but there is considerable difficulty finding reporters and stations in other cities because the province is so big. The problem that usually crops up is funding, because it takes a lot of money and resources to travel, both of which are lacking in order to adequately cover all the issues across the province. At the moment, representation is based mainly in Vancouver, Victoria and Vancouver Island.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Would anyone else like to add anything?
Ms. Dennison: If CBC/Radio-Canada's duty is to serve as the nation's public network, using public funds, it is duty bound to have a presence in francophone minority communities outside Quebec and anglophone minority communities within Quebec. What happens in Canada's francophone community in Quebec is not the only coverage that matters in a national newscast. That is an important consideration and it should be reflected in our own communities in the programming in our regions.
[English]
If Radio-Canada continues to receive funds as a national broadcaster, I think they should be obliged to represent and have regional programming that is broadcast regionally in minority communities.
[Translation]
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Do you have anything to add?
Mr. Morrow: The point about the under-representation was made. I have met a few Radio-Canada reporters, in Manitoba and elsewhere, and it seems that most, if not all, of them are Quebecers. So that may be one of the problems. Reporters from Quebec come to provinces with minority communities to become Radio-Canada reporters in Quebec; they start out in minority communities. I am not sure whether there is enough supply and demand.
[English]
I am not sure if there are enough young people in minority situations who can go and be broadcasters or journalists within their regions. Maybe part of the problem is that they do not get that much representation and it is more Quebec with the journalists.
Ms. Parkhomenka: When I was going to school, I always thought that to improve your language you need to watch television or listen to the radio because they have perfect language. That is why there is a problem. When there is a non—native speaker, a journalist, CBC and Radio-Canada need to ensure that the level of language proficiency is high enough to be called perfect.
[Translation]
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: You have already touched on this point. Ms. Christie, what would your main recommendations for CBC/Radio-Canada be?
[English]
Mr. Morrow: Those who primarily watch Radio-Canada might not necessarily be interested in what is going on with us folks in English Canada. However, in English Canada we are definitely interested in knowing what is going on with French Canada, whether it is in Quebec or in minority situations. We are interested and we want to share in the francophonie. That is the one point I want to make. We would want to see a lot more cross-promotion of the two within each other. Talk to each other and communicate with each other. Promote shows or episodes on the other stations or say ``Hey, you can come here and do this.''
You asked a question about Tou.TV. There was not one person from English Canada who heard of Tou.TV and we thought that was a big problem because there is a lot of good stuff on there, yet no one we talked to in English Canada knew about it.
[Translation]
Ms. Parkhomenka: I think that CBC/Radio-Canada is, first and foremost, a source of information and learning for youth. But the public broadcaster's role in young people's lives is diminishing. For that reason, it is important to find ways to appeal to youth and address their needs. Finding other methods is vital.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: I want to thank all five of you. You are doing an excellent job.
[English]
The Chair: Mr. Hodges, did you indicate you wanted to say something?
Mr. Hodges: I could say something, but it is not in regard to the questions covered. It is more in terms of the culture because I am basically speaking on behalf of the culture of hip hop specifically. Being someone that worked in the communities on the west island of Montreal, there is a bit of an absence of radio play, which is taken for granted.
We are talking about how to reach the youth of today. We can have these conversations. I know for certain that many of the youth that I work with or that I know listen to hip hop music or they create music. After the creation, no radio stations will ever play their music. Do you know what I mean? That is sort of a representation of a minority group that is suffering a great deal. There are talented youth and kids that do not have a place to go.
I have been on CBC/Radio-Canada before but usually in a negative light, I would say, representing hip hop and kind of defending it. At the same time, I still respect CBC/Radio-Canada for what they are doing in their journalistic approach. Being someone that tries to work with youth and encourage the arts, I wonder if there will ever be a space for hip hop music on CBC/Radio-Canada. That is my qualm. Are they working toward something like that?
[Translation]
Senator Charette-Poulin: I second what my colleague Senator Fortin-Duplessis said. Congratulations on all your hard work and your ability today to speak on behalf of your groups in order to provide us with recommendations for our national public broadcaster.
What strikes me most is how passionate you are about the public broadcaster. It is clear that you have a genuine desire to help improve the public service that Radio-Canada and CBC deliver to the country.
I have three questions. The first is for Mr. Hodges. You brought up one of the corporation's key responsibilities, developing Canadian talent.
I would like to cite two examples. In the 1980s, Mr. Juneau submitted a report to the Parliament of Canada entitled Let's Do It. One chapter outlined all the Canadian talent that had been developed thanks to Radio-Canada. It mentioned literary and musical talents, as well as professionals, hosts, journalists and historians, just to name a few.
I brought up two examples, both from a particular region in Canada: two artists, an anglophone and a francophone. I am not sure whether you are familiar with them, but they were Édith Butler and Anne Murray. There was recognition of the fact that CBC/Radio-Canada had been responsible for developing their talent when they were just young girls.
Mr. Hodges, how could CBC/Radio-Canada once again assume that responsibility and really engage young talent, be it hip-hop artists or those who enjoy writing or speaking? What do you think should be done to develop that talent? How do you see the public broadcaster playing a role in developing Canadian talent?
[English]
Mr. Hodges: That is a very good question. I was waiting for a question like this.
Senator Charette-Poulin: Do you mean I can go now?
Mr. Hodges: Maybe you will want to hear my answer first.
The most important thing is accessibility even to get on the radio. Right now, I have a song called Notre Home. It is a bilingual anthem. One of the artists on it is in the room today, Stefanie Parnell. There are seven artists who choose English to express themselves musically but the song is bilingual to inspire people and get them motivated to be proud Quebecers. We have a great deal of difficulty getting it on the radio stations. They will not play it because they would rather play Justin Timberlake or Rihanna. Is there support for the Quebec artist or the Canadian artist; or is there more support for what is popular? It is almost a double-edged sword for CBC/Radio-Canada because they want to play the music or the stories that the listener wants to hear. It is a double-edged sword and it is tough.
I believe there are alternatives, such as alternative radio or a greater online presence. Anne Murray came out at a time when you did not have YouTube, iTunes or the potential of going viral online. You could listen to the radio only to hear an artist's song. These days, artists spend more time promoting on the internet and less time considering getting played on the radio.
It comes to the point where accessibility becomes the question. If a hip hop artist can get played on the radio, or whatever music an artist makes, how do they go about that? I have been in the industry for 10 years but I cannot tell you how I would be able to do that. I am touring the province with my song, which is endorsed by the Quebec government, and they still will not play the song on the radio. Is that a problem? Yes, it is a problem. How will you encourage the young generation, specifically English artists in Quebec. That is my main goal. How do you encourage them to pursue a career in Quebec rather than leave and go to Toronto or New York City? That is my main concern. At the same time, we are encouraging artists to do their thing, explore their passion, go to school and do whatever it takes to get to where you want to go. It is tough. Accessibility and more information on CBC/Radio-Canada's website would probably be the first thing to look at.
[Translation]
Senator Charette-Poulin: That is a very useful suggestion, Mr. Hodges. If you have others, I would appreciate your forwarding them to our clerk or the committee chair. We would like our report to include your recommendations.
There are many questions I would like to ask, but I will keep my eagerness in check. A number of you mentioned the importance of information. Interestingly enough, all five of you addressed it in a different way. Some of you talked about news or public affairs, and others commented on the intellectual curiosity it stimulates.
How can CBC/Radio-Canada do a better job of performing its role? I do not mean in terms of information and public affairs, because you expressed yourselves quite well in that regard. In terms of using information to arouse intellectual curiosity, how could CBC/Radio-Canada improve its performance, particularly in the areas of Canadian history, geography and culture? I believe Rae-Anna had some suggestions earlier.
[English]
Ms. Maitland: I was thinking about this and what it would mean to have anglophone colleges within Quebec that have some kind of radio drama program where we are able to hear from the students what they are experiencing in their lives. My parents raved about Afghanada, a program that ran on CBC Radio One. It was wonderful to listen to, imagine the scenarios and be involved in something creative. I thought that would be interesting.
Senator Charette-Poulin: Justin, Christie or Annam, do you have any suggestions?
Ms. Dennison: I could suggest not trying to compete with private television stations or radio stations. David mentioned that playing top-10 or top-40 music is not why people listen to CBC/Radio-Canada. People listen to CBC/ Radio-Canada with very expressed interest of hearing Canadian content. Right now, we have minimum Canadian content standards that have to be met. Why not have almost exclusively Canadian content? It would give more opportunity to play more Canadian groups and different types of music representative of communities across the country. We could have more regionalism if we had higher Canadian content. I do not think there is necessarily a private business interest in competing with the other stations at this time.
Senator Charette-Poulin: One thing is clear with the five of you: the involvement of Canadians in networks, be they regional or national services.
[Translation]
Senator Ringuette: Let me first say how very impressed I am by how skillfully and easily you express yourselves on a topic that can be somewhat complex, CBC/Radio-Canada. I sensed that you enjoy the news that Radio-Canada/CBC delivers because you trust the facts it is giving you. So that is one area of responsibility where we can say that young people are in agreement and approve. And I noticed that each of you seemed to say that your point of contact with CBC/Radio-Canada was no longer just TV or the radio. I spend 20 hours in the car every week; I listen to CBC and Radio-Canada radio stations.
Basically, then, when it comes to the Internet, everything goes because time and content constraints are no longer a factor for CBC/Radio-Canada on its websites.
[English]
What I am hearing from you is about the Internet. I think personally that CBC/Radio-Canada has done a very good job of getting on board the new media communication tool, but there is more that can be done in order to meet your aspiration via Internet services with CBC/Radio-Canada. For instance, I think Mr. Morrow mentioned cross- promotion. There is no time constraint and content constraint on the Internet. I hope that CBC/Radio-Canada is listening to what is being said right now. For the future of young Canadians, you have just stated what you want. In our generation, we had limited time TV and radio to put all kinds of content in there, so there had to be segregation, but that constraint is no longer there. You can ask for whatever you want with regard to your needs from CBC/Radio- Canada because you can have it all on the Internet through them. Am I right or wrong?
Ms. Dennison: I think you are right. There is absolutely no limit to what we can access, and it is all on our own time now. It is on demand. We can go on their websites and listen to broadcasts that have been made a week before, a year before or five minutes before, whenever it is convenient for us. We can absorb as much as we can take, really. There is enough information out there that there is no limit to what someone can access.
For that reason, I do not see why there could not be collaborative programming or increased promotion or even one website. It does not have to just be in English or just in French. I think it would be a huge advantage to not make everyone choose and if everyone could just have the programming presented in whatever language it was produced and not force us to choose whether I am going on Radio-Canada's website or CBC's website. It should all be at our fingertips. It is only a website. It is as deep as anyone can create it. I think it would be to everyone's advantage to not be forced to choose immediately.
Mr. Hodges: To further that discussion, what needs to happen is a superior network that would hub everything under it. Just for the sake of our conversation right now, I do not know if it would make it more convenient or more annoying for people. That is the only thing. Does segregation come because there is a linguistic divide, or does it come because it is just convenient to have CBC have the English and Radio-Canada the French?
For instance, I went today on the YouTube channel. I wanted to see if CBC had any presence online. I did not even know that they had a YouTube channel. I went on, and it is unbelievable. It is so well done. It is easy to access any show you want to see or that plays on CBC, and they update pretty regularly. If you wanted to spend 24 hours straight watching George Stroumboulopoulos Tonight, you could actually do it.
Senator Ringuette: He has a real fan with you.
Mr. Hodges: He is good. If CBC and Radio-Canada had an integrated YouTube channel, would it annoy someone that wants to see it in English and they have to take time to find it? The segregation is a good thing and a bad thing. I am playing devil's advocate a bit here. I think it makes it convenient, and that is what us humans want. Everything is based on convenience. You know what I mean? It is not a bad thing that there is a separation, but I think that things should be done more together. I do not know.
Senator Ringuette: Bridging.
Mr. Hodges: There should be more bridging. There should be a bridging show, or they should create another network that has only bridging, so there is this one, the Radio-Canada CBC hybrid.
Senator Ringuette: The best of.
Mr. Hodges: The best of, or it is just a whole separate other channel that just has the shows that are English and French, or even other languages. For myself, I grew up in a Dutch environment. My mom is Dutch. I grew up with even a fourth language, Indonesian. There is also that. What about all the people that speak other languages? What about them? I live in a community that has a lot of Haitians. It would be awesome for Haitians to have a Creole channel on CBC. The possibilities are endless, if you think about it.
[Translation]
Mr. Morrow: Yes, I have a couple of comments on that. The first has to do with a sort of umbrella; we offer something of that nature on our website. We exist. We see three language communities in Canada: francophones, anglophones and those who speak both languages. We want the information in both languages. Right away on our website, you will find both. It offers a combination of English and French. There is no repetition. It has to do with how you read it; everything is there. And that is something above and beyond. Everything we do is like that, and the contact is there as well.
The second method used to avoid both was dubbing or voice-overs. Everyone hates that the most. Whenever I say the word, people do not like it, and it has to stop. And the third method has to do with how Facebook and YouTube work, in the sense that they understand my searches. When I watch something, in either French or English, the ads appear in English and French. If I am watching English programs, the ads will appear in French because YouTube knows that I like French as well. It is an internal feature. I think it is amazing that when I am watching something in English, the ads appear in French for me.
The same goes for Facebook, where I have both francophone and anglophone friends. The page displays French, English, French, English. That is exactly what I want as someone in a language group who wants to use both languages.
[English]
Ms. Maitland: I have noticed that there are some drawbacks to having so much information. I feel like people are not necessarily going to be exposed to things that they would not be exposed to just through their own circle of friends or through their own interests.
Something I really enjoyed, through the radio and television when I was growing up and also since then, is a program that a source that you trust is curating and putting together — DNTO, beautiful programs. You can pick and choose from what you want already, but if you do not know what you are looking for, then it is hard to really have that same opening. If there is some way of finding that within the Internet, with someone or a group that you trust putting together something . . .
Senator Ringuette: Do you find that, through its web page, CBC and Radio-Canada are reaching the young people? Is CBC too far away from the front line?
Ms. Maitland: I have a question of clarification. When you say "young people," there are so many different demographics —
Senator Ringuette: I mean, anyone younger than me is young people.
Ms. Maitland: It is hard. We were saying earlier that from 12 to 17 is very different from 25 to 30, 35.
Senator Ringuette: I would say 20 to 35.
Ms. Maitland: Okay, that is very different from what I was imagining. I was imagining teenagers and thinking not at all. However, I know a lot of people in my age range of 25 to 30, especially last year during the student strike, who really depended on the CBC and were constantly sending articles back and forth to get that information around.
Senator Ringuette: I know that George is very popular and creates an attraction to see and to get more from CBC for the younger generation.
Mr. Hodges: Between 12 and 17 there is no interest, I do not think.
Senator Ringuette: No interest there.
Mr. Hodges: They would rather watch an Epic Meal Time video than go on CBC and read the news. For kids, it is completely different. I am not saying it is hopeless. Are we allowed to discuss other broadcasting sites? Can I mention PBS, for instance?
Senator Ringuette: You are here to say what you want to say.
Mr. Hodges: PBS did something interesting. I do not know how many people watch PBS or know about their new online campaign, but what they started doing is crazy. It is the most revolutionary thing ever. They basically do these autotune, chopped up videos. It was PBS Digital Studios that started this online campaign where they took the classic PBS shows, like Mister Rogers' Neighborhood for instance, and they just chopped up the voice and added music to it. I am not sure if you are familiar with autotune software where you can play notes when you are speaking. They just basically created this whole montage of the best of Mister Rogers and made a song out of it. One episode would be the verse and then this part was the chorus. They chopped it all up and made it really interesting.
I think it is the teachers' and the older generations' responsibilities to show something like that to youth. I am a substitute teacher now, so I can sort of do what I want from time to time. If the kids are doing nothing, I am like, ``Hey, let's watch some stuff on YouTube.'' I will play that PBS one, and then the students ask more questions about PBS. If CBC or Radio-Canada started doing more youthful approaches, then you could get that younger demographic. It just requires really talented people on the back end to create those types of ideas that will be interesting for the younger generation.
[Translation]
Senator Champagne: Mr. Morrow, you talked about your dream, your wish of having a program that goes seamlessly from one language to the other. If we look back at the 1980s, there was a program by the name of Tale of Two Cities or something like that. It was an hour-long variety show.
[English]
One week it was in Montreal and two weeks after it was in Toronto, and you exchanged some of your artists from Montreal that you would want the English network to learn and vice versa. I remember that very well because I was almost part of it at one point except that on my way to the airport I was stuck in a traffic jam in Montreal trying to get to Dorval. It is nothing new that we have a tough time getting around the Dorval circle particularly. When I missed the flight and that plane crashed just outside Montreal in the north Ste-Thérèse area, the man who was director of that show died in that crash, so I missed it.
I think a lot before I talk about the problems of traffic jams in Montreal, but it does give you a lot of time to listen to radio.
For the arts in English in Quebec, you will have some English-speaking artists at the Club Soda, for example, and other places. Do not think that hip hop music is a problem by itself or that it is put aside.
I can tell you, because I know very well, that classical music is also; there is none left. On CBC in the morning you have Julie Nesrallah that does from 10 to 1 with good music, is well presented, she gives you the story and so on. However, on Radio-Canada we used to have six or seven half hours a week presenting classical musicians, and that would go all the way across the country. Young artists that would have sung or played on that show would suddenly get a phone call from Edmonton or from Regina saying, ``We heard you, you are fun, would you come and give a concert.'' We do not have that any longer. The only thing we have is the Orchestre Symphonique de Montréal once or twice a year. I do not want you to think that hip hop is a victim. It is not the only one.
Mr. Hodges: Yes.
Senator Champagne: We have a theatre in English in Montreal. Another place where you can have theatre in English is at Concordia because there is a very good theatre group there. I remember going there to see No Exit. It has been a while.
I am not particularly a fan of hip hop music, I will tell you that much, but I am not one that would say that it is bad and I will not listen to it. Let us say I will not go out of my way to listen to hip hop music, but that does not mean it is not worth listening to, far from it.
However, if you want arts in English in the Montreal area, even in Quebec City they have an English-speaking theatre group now, so it is getting there.
I have one question for Ms. Parkhomenka. You said you have been in Canada for two years?
Ms. Parkhomenka: Two years and eight months.
Senator Champagne: What was your first language?
Ms. Parkhomenka: Russian.
Senator Ringuette: You are amazing.
Senator Champagne: You learned the two languages, both French and English, in two and a half years?
Ms. Parkhomenka: No, French I learned back home in Belarus at school and then university. That was my major.
Senator Champagne: Still, in two and a half years —
Ms. Parkhomenka: Five days a week.
Senator Champagne: Ms. Dennison, what you told us of your life gives your child a fantastic chance to become bilingual early.
[Translation]
From my personal experience, I can tell you what happens when one parent speaks to a child in one language and the other parent speaks to the child in the other language. An osmosis-like process happens and, as a result, at 8 or 9 years old, the child is able to speak both languages and switch from one to the other.
I can speak personally because I have experience with an exogamous relationship. I raised two children who are now raising bilingual children. I think that is great. What if, in our report, we were to propose that CBC/Radio-Canada go back to that style of program, one that would take place in Montreal one week and in Toronto, the next, one that truly married the two traditions, where both languages and both cultures came together? Perhaps someone would be interested in taking up the concept again and putting together such a program, featuring all kinds of artists, who could gain exposure in both worlds, francophone and anglophone.
Madam Chair, I think that is one proposal we should make, because when I talk about that program and tell you about the plane crash, I was there. I missed the plane.
You said that arts in Quebec have nothing or almost nothing to offer anglophones. I wonder why. There must be events on the West Island. There are places where concerts are held; I do not know whether they put on hip-hop shows. I have not gone to a hip-hop concert; the genre is missing from my musical education.
But 65 years later, I will admit that when you have always lived in the classical world, it does bother you a bit. But there really is nothing. Is it possible that I heard the bilingual song you mentioned earlier on television? It was not on Radio-Canada, more likely on CTV during a Montreal-area news segment featuring a group of young people who were singing the song in French and English. Did I imagine that?
[English]
Mr. Hodges: Yes, I am 100 per cent certain it was that song, which was created a year ago when we were working towards a provincial school tour, which I am on now. However, Jean-François Lisée, who is our minister for English- speaking communities, wanted to endorse the project publicly, which he did by saying that he was going to give a grant of $20,000 to help push the tour forward. It ended up becoming national news and it was open to interpretation. All the media outlets jumped on the song, some attacking it and some people praising it. It was good media for an English artist, such as me. I did not care. I enjoyed that part.
Senator Champagne: At least it made me smile because it was fun to see all those young people going from one language to the other; and it is a fun song.
Mr. Hodges: Yes, but that song bothered many people, maybe a little because of the money but more because people are sick and tired of the whole linguistic debate, I think. There is a shift, especially in the communities, where some think there is no tension between French and English people. I have never seen it or experienced it. I have tons of francophone friends that speak only French; and there has never been that kind of tension. In terms of any type of English music in Quebec, it is very alive and well. It is just that it is not exposed as much, but there are many community organizations around. I have learned this through working with the QCGN and travelling. I just came back from the Gaspé, where there is an organization called KAZA that works with English-speaking communities and school boards to keep English very much alive. Identifying with both parts of the culture is important, which is speaking French and English. I just came back from an event put on by the Central Quebec School Board. They did an event with the Voices of English Quebec, an organization based in Quebec City. They had a board-wide event and invited 500 students from all over Quebec who are part of this school board to come and perform. The show was done mostly in English in Quebec City. The school boards are starting to make more of an effort to encourage the arts for young kids. At the top of the chain, you have Bill 14, which will potentially shut down some of the schools that I am visiting.
It is very messy. At the end of the day, individuals living in Canada or in Quebec have a responsibility to act in our communities to make a difference. I will not wait for votes to pass, to tell you the truth. I will act today to make a difference and contribute while I am still alive. I do not complain about what governments do because then it just means I am not being accountable; so I take it into my own hands and find other people that believe the same thing. That is where I am at in terms of the arts and music.
[Translation]
Senator Champagne: Madam Chair, I would like to close the loop on this, if I may. Mr. Hodges, I think it would be worthwhile for you to read one of the latest reports this committee submitted. We went — with the QCGN and others — to meet with all the anglophone groups spread out throughout Quebec. We are always talking about poor francophones in minority situations, but we produced a whole report on anglophones in minority situations. Our committee did that.
At least, you will know that you are not alone with this problem. We studied this matter. We could perhaps make sure to send you a copy of that report. Thank you very much and good luck on your song coming through. I would love to receive a CD. We will send you the report, and I would like you to send me a CD.
Senator Poirier: Since it began its work, the committee has heard from various groups regarding CBC/Radio- Canada. Most witnesses said that Radio-Canada focused too much on Quebec and not really on the regions. Could a new francophone television station be created to reflect the Canadian francophonie outside Quebec?
I was just wondering if they have contacted you as the future generation. You, the youth, are our generation of the future. Have they contacted you to see whether you had anything to share with them that would benefit you? Here is the second part of my question: Has CBC/Radio-Canada contacted you as an organization or as a representative of young Canadian groups, in order to ask about what you would like to see, going forward, that could benefit you?
Mr. Morrow: Canadian Youth for French was approached by the Accent channel, a year ago. We think the idea is great, and we support it. It has to do with the problems you discovered through your study — the underrepresentation of francophones in minority environments. Obviously, the fact that two television stations want to take things further and ask the CRTC for a license means something.
[English]
It has gone so far that they have come here. Something is not right there.
[Translation]
When I looked at the documentation and the website, I was worried because it only mentioned francophones. All it talked about was francophones. But I do not see myself as a francophone. Am I considered to be a francophone, or are we talking about their definition of a francophone? I also worried about that. In our second language partner group, we were very concerned about anglophones for French.
I went to see the chair and the members of the committee, and everyone on the committee told us that both anglophones and francophones will be represented, and I have that in writing. So, as an organization, we support this television station because we feel included. They consulted us, and we thought that was great. CBC/Radio-Canada never approached us. I have not heard from them.
Senator Poirier: That does not surprise me. The other groups told us the same thing.
[English]
Ms. Parkhomenka: They approached me to participate in the Forum of the Francophonie just because of this, because they wanted to know what young Canadians think about.
Senator Poirier: So CBC approached you?
Ms. Parkhomenka: Radio-Canada.
[Translation]
They organized the forum of the Francophonie.
Mr. Morrow: They did not consult us, but we have been interviewed by Radio-Canada a number of times. They want to know what we are doing.
Senator Poirier: But they are not asking for your opinion about the partnership that could be struck to ensure that your voice is heard or about what could be done in the future. They have not consulted you.
Mr. Morrow: No.
[English]
Senator Poirier: I was listening to the comments, and I guess it was about the time I came in that Ms. Maitland had started her presentation. You mentioned that you did not listen to the radio, had no TV, and it was basically Facebook and YouTube that were your main means of communication. You had just recently, actually this morning, if I understand right, went on to the website of CBC. I am just curious, and other people can also get involved in this question too, to know what your opinions are going forward in the future. You are the generation of tomorrow. Are we to expect that the generation of tomorrow will depend more on Facebook and YouTube to be able to get news and get informed of what is going on rather than listening to the stations like Radio-Canada and CBC and things like that?
Ms. Maitland: That is interesting. I was thinking a lot about that, and I think yes, we will, because there is something about things being quicker, and there is this short-term obligation involved in being able to find the video that you want or the article that you want and reading it. I was thinking about this as maybe it is something that will change with time. Maybe when I have more time. Ms. Dennison was talking about when she has her daughter with her and they have time, then they will listen to a radio program or something that is a little bit longer. I would kind of hope for that for my own self, that I would have the time for that. Really, when you are a student, it is hard to be immersed in so much information at all times. You want to spend the shortest amount of time to get the information that you need. Then again, I am not sure. This is the first generation moving into this kind of new world of information and the way that we are receiving information, so it will be interesting to see. People will get used to this format and will need it in that certain way where they do not want to have it long-term.
Senator Poirier: Do you feel the information you are getting through Facebook and YouTube, if it is on news or items of something that is going on in the world or in your region or province or country, is reliable? Is it information that is accurate?
Ms. Maitland: You have to kind of take things with a grain of salt. It depends on where you are getting it from. If I am getting something from the CBC, I would be more likely to trust it. However, some of the information that I get is a first-hand account. Someone says I was there, I saw this, or somebody writes a blog, and I always take that with a grain of salt. You trust it because it is somebody's experience, but it is always subjective, so in some way you have to kind of weigh in on many different sources, which sometimes we do not have. However, I find myself often backtracking. I say that I have some information, and then I have to backtrack and think where I got that from, and we constantly have to do that.
Senator Poirier: Are there any other opinions on that issue?
Ms. Dennison: I would like to add something to that. I think social media is an avenue for disseminating information, but you have to be very careful about your sources. It comes to your follow-up question, senator. When there is a need for a reliable source of information, people will turn to CBC or Radio-Canada because it is a public broadcaster and has a responsibility toward the Canadian public. I think of an example when the attack on the World Trade Center happened. I was working in Ottawa. We were on Parliament Hill. The first thing we did was turn on CBC radio to find out what we should do and where we should go. If I were busily checking on my Facebook account, who would tell me where to go and what to do at that very time? I do not think I would have had a reliable source of information. However, nothing prevents CBC and Radio-Canada from having a presence on those social media networks so that, in the event of an emergency, maybe the first thing you turn to is Twitter or Facebook, but you go to the source of information that you rely on because they are using public funds and have a duty to transmit information that is vetted and is responsible to the Canadian public.
Ms. Parkhomenka: I agree that this is the way we are going, but I disagree with just the whole idea because Facebook and Twitter give you just a short description of whatever is going on. I just hope that with time, when people see the short description, Facebook or Twitter account, that it will motivate young Canadians to do a proper search to find out more about what happened. Just those little sentences do not educate much.
Mr. Hodges: That is a really interesting point. That is how I end up going to CBC most of the time. I see something on Twitter, and I am on Twitter all the time and looking at stuff, and if everyone is saying Montreal is flooding downtown and everyone is tweeting that, then I will go on to CBC and find the real story. I think that is the way a lot of people my age are doing it, in their 20s, and I think young kids are also doing that as well.
With CBC and Radio-Canada, I follow a lot of those personalities on Twitter, and everyone is a journalist on Twitter, basically. You can follow anyone and find out what they are doing and what they think about an event or whatever, but I think that is the way that a lot of the younger generation will find out about news. At the same time, hopefully there is some sort of ground where young people will be encouraged to actually go on to the website to really check out the full story. CBC does a great job at that. Every time they update a story, if it is a big story, they have the article that is linked so you can click on it and go right to the website and get the story, and they have integrative methods where you can share it on your Facebook wall, which is probably where some people are seeing a lot of this stuff.
Right now, the way the Internet is working with CBC radio and CBC TV and online, the online game is really intact, and I do not think that there is anything wrong with the way it is going right now. I think it is probably at its best in terms of having accessibility to so many different people on a worldwide level. It is not just for Canadians. It is also for my oma who lives in Holland. What is going on in Montreal? She can go on and find information to see what is happening with her grandson or something, what is going on in Montreal. I think that the Internet game is probably all shifting in that direction, which kind of sucks for the radio aspect, but I do not think that it will die necessarily because there is still a lot of people that just like radio and that enjoy it. I went to John Abbott College, and I actually aspired to be a radio journalist. They have these programs that are still there, and people are still taking these programs, so that obviously means statistically it probably would show that people are still interested in the broadcast world, so I do not think that will die any time soon.
Senator Poirier: Thank you, and thank you for coming here. You are the future of tomorrow, and I think it is important that your input is heard by the committee. I am sure we will be seeing something in the report from some of the comments that we have received from some of the young Canadians that have come to meet with us. Thank you.
Senator McInnis: Madam Chair, as a visiting senator to the committee, in place of my colleague who could not be here, Paul McIntyre, and I have been suitably impressed as to what I have heard. I am a great fan of CBC television, and of course radio.
I did not particularly appreciate your comments about Laval's Rouge et Or football team. You did not mention about coming down to Nova Scotia and taking out our St. Mary's Huskies twice; so you are no friend of mine.
My experience with CBC is that as you grow older, you become an even greater fan of the CBC. I am impressed today by what I have heard: You are well on your way now.
With respect to hip hop, I tolerate it because I have young boys. Part of the difficulty with the CBC, I find, is that they get fixed on a genre of music as opposed to looking at a multiple types of music to reach the minorities in various parts. You alluded to that or mentioned it directly. That is a shame. I would rather see exactly what you are talking about — Canadian content. That is what we should be doing, not just in Quebec but throughout Canada. The only time we have heard country music on CBC was last week after the unfortunate passing of Stompin' Tom Connors; and they could not play enough of it. It is a shame because parts of this country enjoy that kind of music and others. The role of the CBC, in my opinion, should be all about Canadian content. When we talk about television, we are trying to race off to compete with NBC and all the major networks in the United States. What we are about and what the almost $2-billion budget should be about is to build Canadian content. That was more of a comment than a question.
In your age group in Quebec, your generation, what would you guess is the percentage of individuals knowledgeable in this area with respect to CBC/Radio-Canada? Would you hazard a guess at the percentage?
Mr. Morrow: In my experience, not so much in Quebec but talking to friends outside Quebec, it is surprisingly much higher than I ever would have thought. I say that shockingly because when I moved to English Canada, I started hanging out with my friends who were telling me to listen to CBC radio. I asked, ``Why would you ever listen to CBC radio? What is on there?'' I was surprised, and I still am, when I asked all our members and all our friends, to learn that almost all of them listen to CBC radio. I was shocked by that. The level of appreciation for the arts on CBC is much higher than we give it credit for. I do not know if that is for sure but in my experience it is.
Senator McInnis: Thank you; this has been a great experience for me.
The Chair: Thank you, senator.
[Translation]
The Chair: On behalf of the members of the committee, I would like to sincerely thank you.
[English]
It was a great meeting, mostly because of the five of you. I sincerely thank you. If the future of Canada is with young people like you, I say, "Bravo Canada."
(The committee adjourned.)