Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
National Security and Defence
Issue No. 43 - Minutes of Proceedings - May 13, 2019
OTTAWA, Monday, May 13, 2019
(79)
[English]
The Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence met this day at 1:03 p.m., in room W110, 1 Wellington Street, the chair, the Honourable Gwen Boniface, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Boehm, Boisvenu, Boniface, Dagenais, Frum, Gold, Griffin, McIntyre, McPhedran, Oh and Pratte (11).
In attendance: Ariel Shapiro and Christina Yeung, Anaslysts, Parliamentary Information and Research Services, Library of Parliament.
Also present: The official reporters of the Senate.
Pursuant to the order of reference adopted by the Senate on Tuesday, December 11, 2018, the committee continued its consideration of Bill C-59, An Act respecting national security matters. (For complete text of the order of reference, see proceedings of the committee, Issue No. 40)
WITNESSES:
Justice Canada:
Doug Breithaupt, Director and General Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section.
Canadian Security Intelligence Service:
Tricia Geddes, Assistant Director, Policy and Strategic Partnerships.
Communications Security Establishment:
Scott Millar, Deputy Chief, Policy and Communications.
Public Safety Canada:
John Davies, Director General, National Security Policy;
Sophie Beecher, Director of Intelligence Policy, National Security Policy Directorate.
The chair made a statement.
The officials were invited to remain at the table and, from time to time, answer questions.
It was agreed that the committee proceed to clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-59, An Act respecting national security matters.
It was agreed that the title stand postponed.
It was agreed that the preamble stand postponed.
It was agreed that clause 1, which contains the short title, stand postponed.
It was agreed with leave that the clauses be grouped according to the parts of the bill and their divisions as described in the table of provisions of Bill C-59.
It was agreed that part 1, which contains clauses 2 to 49, carry.
It was agreed that part 1.1, which contains clauses 49.1 and 49.2, carry.
The chair asked whether part 2, which contains clauses 50 to 75, shall carry.
After debate, the Honourable Senator Dagenais moved:
That Bill C-59 be amended in clause 50, on page 51, by replacing line 31 with the following:
"lawful.''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, Dagenais, Frum, McIntyre, Oh — 5
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Boehm, Gold, Griffin, McPhedran, Pratte — 6
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
NIL
The Honourable Senator McPhedran moved that Bill C-59 be amended in clause 50, on page 50, by adding the following after line 29:
"12.1 In conducting a review referred to in paragraph 12(a), the Commissioner may request information and documentation that are relevant to the review from any person who is able to provide such information or documentation if it is necessary to do so in order to determine whether the conclusions on the basis of which the authorization in question was issued are reasonable.''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived.
The Honourable Senator McPhedran moved that Bill C-59 be amended in clause 50, on page 50, by adding the following after line 35:
"13.1 If the Commissioner determines that the conclusions referred to in section 13 are not reasonable in respect of an authorization but would be reasonable if a specific condition were added to that authorization, the Commissioner may
(a) refer the matter back to the appropriate minister for reconsideration; and
(b) provide that minister with a description of the condition that would have to be added to the authorization in order to make the conclusions reasonable.''
At 1:44 p.m., the committee suspended.
At 1:50 p.m., the committee resumed.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted on the following vote.
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, Dagenais, Frum, Griffin, McIntyre, McPhedran, Oh — 7
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Boehm, Gold, Pratte — 4
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
NIL
It was agreed that part 2, which contains clause 50, as amended and clauses 51 to 75, carry, on division.
The chair asked whether part 3, which contains clauses 76 to 91 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Boisvenu moved that Bill C-59 be amended in clause 76,
(a) on page 69, by replacing line 14 with the following:
"tion issued under section 29 or 30.'';
(b) on page 73,
(i) by replacing line 26 with the following:
"29 The Minister may issue a Defensive Cyber Opera-'', and
(ii) by replacing line 33 to 35 with the following:
"30 The Minister may issue an Active Cyber Opera-'';
(c) on page 74,
(i) by deleting lines 6 to 12,
(ii) by replacing line 14 with the following:
"tion issued under section 29 or 30 may authorize'', and
(iii) by replacing line 30 with the following:
"tion issued under section 29 or 30, the Estab-'';
(d) on page 75,
(i) by replacing line 2 with the following:
"subsection 26(1), 27(1) or (2) or section 29 or 30 only on the'',
(ii) by deleting lines 13 to 16, and
(iii) by replacing line 18 with the following:
"subsection 26(1), 27(1) or (2) or section 29 or 30 only if he or'';
(e) on page 77,
(i) by replacing lines 1 and 2 with the following:
"(4) The Minister may issue an authorization under section 29 or 30 only if he or she concludes that'', and
(ii) by replacing line 11 with the following:
"or (2) or section 29 or 30 must specify'';
(f) on page 78,
(i) by replacing line 2 with the following:
"27(1) or (2) or section 29 or 30 may be valid for a period not'',
(ii) by replacing line 15 with the following:
"under subsection 26(1), 27(1) or (2) or section 29 or 30, the'',
(iii) by replacing lines 23 and 24 with the following:
"significant and the authorization was issued under section 29 or 30, the Minister must notify the Re-'', and
(iv) by replacing line 27 with the following:
"der subsection 26(1), 27(1) or (2) or section 29 or 30 at any'';
(g) on page 79,
(i) by replacing line 2 with the following:
"under subsection 26(1), 27(1) or (2) or section 29 or 30 if the'',
(ii) by replacing line 17 with the following:
"der section 29 or 30.'', and
(iii) by replacing lines 33 and 34 with the following:
"an amended authorization issued under section 29 or 30 is authorized only to the extent that it is carried'';
(h) on page 82,
(i) by replacing lines 12 and 13 with the following:
"that are set out in subsections 26(1), 27(1) and (2), sections 29 and 30 and subsections 36(2), 39(1) and 40(1).'',
(ii) by replacing lines 25 and 26 with the following:
"tion issued under subsection 26(1), 27(1) or (2), section 29 or 30 or subsection 40(1) or who aids, in good faith, a person who'', and
(iii) by replacing line 34 with the following:
"27(1) or (2), section 29 or 30, or subsection 40(1) or in relation to a com-''; and
(i) on page 83,
(i) by replacing line 6 with the following:
"(2), section 29 or 30 or subsection 40(1); or'',
(ii) by replacing line 11 with the following:
"26(1), 27(1) or (2), section 29 or 30 or subsection 40(1), the Chief must'',
(iii) by replacing lines 20 and 21 with the following:
"out under an authorization issued under section 29 or 30.'', and
(iv) by replacing line 23 with the following:
"or (2), section 29 or 30 or subsection 40(1) and orders made under sec-''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote.
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, Dagenais, Frum, McIntyre, Oh — 5
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Boehm, Gold, Griffin, McPhedran, Pratte — 6
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
NIL
It was agreed that part 3, which contains clauses 76 to 91, carry, on division.
It was agreed that part 4, which contains clauses 92 to 111, carry, on division.
It was agreed that part 5, which contains clauses 112 to 126, carry, on division.
The chair asked whether part 6, which contains clauses 127 to 139 shall carry.
After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was adopted, on division.
The chair asked whether part 7, which contains clauses 140 to 158 shall carry.
The Honourable Senator McIntyre moved that Bill C-59 be amended in clause 143, on page 139, by replacing lines 26 and 27 with the following:
"whether or not
(a) a terrorism offence is committed by the person counselled;
(b) the accused counsels a particular person to carry out the terrorist activity;
(c) the accused knows the identity of the person whom the accused counsels to carry out the terrorist activity; or
(d) the person whom the accused counsels to carry out the terrorist activity knows that it is a terrorist activity.''.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted on the following vote.
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, Dagenais, Frum, Griffin, McIntyre, Oh — 6
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boniface, Boehm, Gold, McPhedran, Pratte — 5
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
NIL
It was agreed that part 7, which contains clauses 140 to 142, clause 143, as amended, and clauses 144 to 158, carry.
It was agreed that part 8, which contains clauses 159 to 167, carry.
The chair asked whether part 9, which contains clause 168, shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Dagenais moved that Bill C-59 be amended in clause 168, on page 146,
(a) by replacing line 1 with the following:
"168 (1) During the fourth year after this section''; and
(b) by adding the following after line 7:
"(1.1) The comprehensive review referred to in subsection (1) must include an assessment of the effect of this Act on the operations of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Communications Security Establishment that relate to national security and on the interaction of those organizations with the National Security and Intelligence Review Agency, the Intelligence Commissioner and the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians.''.
After debate, the Honourable Senator Griffin moved that the motion in amendment be amended by:
Adding the words, ", information sharing,'' after the words "national security''.
After debate, the question being put on the subamendment, it was adopted.
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, as amended, it was carried, on division.
It was agreed that part 9, which contains clause 168 as amended, carry.
The chair asked whether part 10, which contains clauses 169 to 173, shall carry.
The Honourable Senator Gold moved that Bill C-59 be amended on page 148 by adding the following after line 6:
"SCHEDULE
(Section 49.1)
SCHEDULE
(Section 4)
Deputy Heads to Whom Directions Have Been Issued.''
The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was carried, on division.
It was agreed that part 10, which contains clauses 169 to 173, carry, on division.
It was agreed that clause 1, which contains the short title, carry.
It was agreed that the preamble carry.
It was agreed that the title carry.
It was agreed that the bill, as amended, carry, on division.
At 2:45 p.m., the committee suspended.
At 3 p.m., the committee resumed.
The Honourable Senator Gold proposed a number of observations:
It was agreed that Senator Gold's observation number 1 carry.
It was agreed that Senator Gold's observation number 2 carry.
It was agreed that Senator Gold's observation number 3 carry.
It was agreed that Senator Gold's observation number 4 be postponed.
It was agreed that Senator Gold's observation number 5, as amended, carry.
After debate, Senator Gold's observation 6 was adopted on the following vote.
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Boehm, Gold, Griffin, McPhedran, Pratte — 5
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Boisvenu, Dagenais, Frum, Oh — 4
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
McIntyre — 1
It was agreed that Senator Gold's observation number 7, as amended, carry.
It was agreed that Senator Gold's observation number 8, as amended, carry.
The Honourable Senator McPhedran proposed a number of observations:
After debate, it was agreed that Senator McPhedran's observation 1, as amended, carry.
After debate, it was agreed that Senator McPhedran's observation 2, as amended, carry, on division.
After debate, it was agreed that Senator Gold's observation number 4, as amended, carry.
It was agreed that the chair report the bill, as amended, with observations, to the Senate.
At 4 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the chair.
ATTEST:
Mark Palmer
Clerk of the Committee