Journals of the Senate
2nd Session, 41st Parliament
Issue 11
Monday, November 4, 2013
2:00 p.m.
The Honourable Noël A. Kinsella, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Ataullahjan, Baker, Batters, Bellemare, Beyak, Black, Boisvenu, Braley, Brazeau, Buth, Callbeck, Campbell, Carignan, Chaput, Charette-Poulin, Comeau, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dagenais, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, Demers, Downe, Doyle, Dyck, Eaton, Enverga, Fortin-Duplessis, Fraser, Frum, Furey, Gerstein, Greene, Hervieux-Payette, Housakos, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kenny, Kinsella, Lang, LeBreton, Lovelace Nicholas, Maltais, Manning, Marshall, Martin, Massicotte, McCoy, McInnis, McIntyre, Mercer, Merchant, Meredith, Mitchell, Mockler, Moore, Munson, Nancy Ruth, Neufeld, Ngo, Nolin, Ogilvie, Oh, Patterson, Plett, Poirier, Raine, Ringuette, Rivard, Rivest, Robichaud, Runciman, Segal, Seidman, Seth, Smith (Saurel), Stewart Olsen, Tannas, Tardif, Tkachuk, Unger, Verner, Wallace, Wallin, Watt, Wells, White
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Ataullahjan, Baker, Batters, Bellemare, Beyak, Black, Boisvenu, Braley, Brazeau, Buth, Callbeck, Campbell, Carignan, Chaput, Charette-Poulin, Comeau, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dagenais, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, Demers, Downe, Doyle, Dyck, Eaton, Enverga, Fortin-Duplessis, Fraser, Frum, Furey, Gerstein, Greene, Hervieux-Payette, Housakos, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kenny, Kinsella, Lang, LeBreton, Lovelace Nicholas, Maltais, Manning, Marshall, Martin, Massicotte, McCoy, McInnis, McIntyre, Mercer, Merchant, Meredith, Mitchell, Mockler, Moore, Munson, Nancy Ruth, Neufeld, Ngo, Nolin, Ogilvie, Oh, Patterson, Plett, Poirier, Raine, Ringuette, Rivard, Rivest, Robichaud, Runciman, Segal, Seidman, Seth, Smith (Saurel), Stewart Olsen, Tannas, Tardif, Tkachuk, Unger, Verner, Wallace, Wallin, Watt, Wells, White
The first list records senators present in the Senate Chamber during the course of the sitting.
An asterisk in the second list indicates a senator who, while not present during the sitting, was in attendance to business, as defined in subsections 8(2) and (3) of the Senators Attendance Policy.
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Tabling of documents
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable the Speaker tabled the following:
Transcripts of the meetings of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration held on May 8 and 9, 2013, during the First Session of the Forty-first Parliament, pursuant to the order of the Senate adopted on October 28, 2013.—Sessional Paper No. 2/41-145S.
First Reading of Commons Public Bills
A message was brought from the House of Commons with a Bill C-462, An Act restricting the fees charged by promoters of the disability tax credit and making consequential amendments to the Tax Court of Canada Act, to which it desires the concurrence of the Senate.
The bill was read the first time.
The Honourable Senator Martin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Marshall, that the bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading two days hence.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Motions
The Honourable Senator Martin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Marshall:
That, pursuant to rule 7-2, not more than a further six hours of debate be allocated for the consideration of motion No. 5 under "Government Business'', concerning the suspensions of Senators Brazeau, Duffy and Wallin.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Ataullahjan, Batters, Bellemare, Beyak, Black, Boisvenu, Braley, Buth, Carignan, Comeau, Dagenais, Demers, Doyle, Eaton, Enverga, Fortin-Duplessis, Frum, Gerstein, Greene, Housakos, Johnson, Lang, LeBreton, Maltais, Manning, Marshall, Martin, McInnis, McIntyre, Mockler, Neufeld, Ngo, Nolin, Ogilvie, Oh, Patterson, Poirier, Raine, Rivard, Runciman, Seidman, Seth, Smith (Saurel), Stewart Olsen, Tannas, Tkachuk, Unger, Verner, Wells, White—51
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Baker, Callbeck, Campbell, Chaput, Charette-Poulin, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, Downe, Dyck, Fraser, Furey, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Kenny, Lovelace Nicholas, Massicotte, McCoy, Mercer, Merchant, Mitchell, Moore, Munson, Nancy Ruth, Ringuette, Rivest, Robichaud, Segal, Tardif, Wallace—34
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Meredith, Plett, Wallin—3
° ° °
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Martin, seconded by the Honourable Senator Marshall:
That,
Notwithstanding any usual practice or provision of the Rules, in order to protect the dignity and reputation of the Senate and public trust and confidence in Parliament;
Notwithstanding the provisions of this motion, the Senate confirm that the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration retains the authority, as it considers appropriate, to take any action pertaining to the management of the offices and personnel of the senators affected by this motion for the duration of a suspension;
That the Senate order:
A. The suspension of the Honourable Senator Brazeau for sufficient cause, considering his gross negligence in the management of his parliamentary resources, until such time as this suspension is rescinded pursuant to rule 5-5(i), and such suspension shall have the following conditions:
i) Senator Brazeau, while under suspension, shall not receive any remuneration or reimbursement of expenses from the Senate, including any sessional allowance or living allowance;
ii) Senator Brazeau's right to the use of Senate resources, including funds, goods, services, premises, moving and transportation, travel and telecommunication expenses, shall be suspended for the duration of his suspension;
iii) Senator Brazeau shall not receive any other benefit from the Senate during the duration of his suspension; and
iv) notwithstanding paragraphs i), ii) and iii), during the period of his suspension, Senator Brazeau shall have normal access to Senate resources necessary to continue life, health and dental insurance coverage; and
That the Senate order:
B. The suspension of the Honourable Senator Duffy for sufficient cause, considering his gross negligence in the management of his parliamentary resources, until such time as this suspension is rescinded pursuant to rule 5-5(i), and such suspension shall have the following conditions:
i) Senator Duffy, while under suspension, shall not receive any remuneration or reimbursement of expenses from the Senate, including any sessional allowance or living allowance;
ii) Senator Duffy's right to the use of Senate resources, including funds, goods, services, premises, moving and transportation, travel and telecommunication expenses, shall be suspended for the duration of his suspension;
iii) Senator Duffy shall not receive any other benefit from the Senate during the duration of his suspension; and
iv) notwithstanding paragraphs i), ii) and iii), during the period of his suspension, Senator Duffy shall have normal access to Senate resources necessary to continue life, health and dental insurance coverage; and
That the Senate order:
C. The suspension of the Honourable Senator Wallin for sufficient cause, considering her gross negligence in the management of her parliamentary resources, until such time as this suspension is rescinded pursuant to rule 5- 5(i), and such suspension shall have the following conditions:
i) Senator Wallin, while under suspension, shall not receive any remuneration or reimbursement of expenses from the Senate, including any sessional allowance or living allowance;
ii) Senator Wallin's right to the use of Senate resources, including funds, goods, services, premises, moving and transportation, travel and telecommunication expenses, shall be suspended for the duration of her suspension;
iii) Senator Wallin shall not receive any other benefit from the Senate during the duration of her suspension; and
iv) notwithstanding paragraphs i), ii) and iii), during the period of her suspension, Senator Wallin shall have normal access to Senate resources necessary to continue life, health and dental insurance coverage;
And on the motion of the Honourable Senator Cowan, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fraser:
That the motion be referred to our Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament for consideration and report;
That Senators Brazeau, Duffy and Wallin be invited to appear; and in light of the public interest in this matter, pursuant to rule 14-7(2), proceedings be televised.
After debate,
A point of order was raised with respect to the voting process for the motion.
Debate.
SPEAKER'S STATEMENT
Honourable senators, what the rules and the procedural literature say about this, and I agree with Senator Fraser, is that it is seldom that the Speaker is asked to divide a question, but from time to time it has been done.
So the Speaker does not take the initiative to divide a question, but a member of the assembly may ask the Speaker, when it comes to the point of putting the question, "Please divide the question,'' and it is at the discretion of the Speaker whether to do it or not.
I thank the Honourable Senator Fraser for raising the matter as a question of order, but the point right now is debate. We are not ready for the question. When we are at that point, I ask the house, "Are you ready for the question?'' and the house says "Yes.'' I then ask the question, and I, or any Speaker have to be satisfied that the question being put to the house is fully understood. That is why sometimes, if there is a complicated motion, Speakers have — indeed, as recently as a few weeks ago in the House of Commons — divided a question. It would be at that point, when the question is put to the house. Obviously, I listened to the debate here as well. As long as we are satisfied that we know what we are voting on, and I think everybody is, there is no need to divide even the most complicated of questions. But if there is confusion, sometimes it is helpful. It is more a technique to be helpful to the chamber when making a decision.
The Senate resumed debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Martin, seconded by the Honourable Senator Marshall:
That,
Notwithstanding any usual practice or provision of the Rules, in order to protect the dignity and reputation of the Senate and public trust and confidence in Parliament;
Notwithstanding the provisions of this motion, the Senate confirm that the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration retains the authority, as it considers appropriate, to take any action pertaining to the management of the offices and personnel of the senators affected by this motion for the duration of a suspension;
That the Senate order:
A. The suspension of the Honourable Senator Brazeau for sufficient cause, considering his gross negligence in the management of his parliamentary resources, until such time as this suspension is rescinded pursuant to rule 5-5(i), and such suspension shall have the following conditions:
i) Senator Brazeau, while under suspension, shall not receive any remuneration or reimbursement of expenses from the Senate, including any sessional allowance or living allowance;
ii) Senator Brazeau's right to the use of Senate resources, including funds, goods, services, premises, moving and transportation, travel and telecommunication expenses, shall be suspended for the duration of his suspension;
iii) Senator Brazeau shall not receive any other benefit from the Senate during the duration of his suspension; and
iv) notwithstanding paragraphs i), ii) and iii), during the period of his suspension, Senator Brazeau shall have normal access to Senate resources necessary to continue life, health and dental insurance coverage; and
That the Senate order:
B. The suspension of the Honourable Senator Duffy for sufficient cause, considering his gross negligence in the management of his parliamentary resources, until such time as this suspension is rescinded pursuant to rule 5-5(i), and such suspension shall have the following conditions:
i) Senator Duffy, while under suspension, shall not receive any remuneration or reimbursement of expenses from the Senate, including any sessional allowance or living allowance;
ii) Senator Duffy's right to the use of Senate resources, including funds, goods, services, premises, moving and transportation, travel and telecommunication expenses, shall be suspended for the duration of his suspension;
iii) Senator Duffy shall not receive any other benefit from the Senate during the duration of his suspension; and
iv) notwithstanding paragraphs i), ii) and iii), during the period of his suspension, Senator Duffy shall have normal access to Senate resources necessary to continue life, health and dental insurance coverage; and
That the Senate order:
C. The suspension of the Honourable Senator Wallin for sufficient cause, considering her gross negligence in the management of her parliamentary resources, until such time as this suspension is rescinded pursuant to rule 5- 5(i), and such suspension shall have the following conditions:
i) Senator Wallin, while under suspension, shall not receive any remuneration or reimbursement of expenses from the Senate, including any sessional allowance or living allowance;
ii) Senator Wallin's right to the use of Senate resources, including funds, goods, services, premises, moving and transportation, travel and telecommunication expenses, shall be suspended for the duration of her suspension;
iii) Senator Wallin shall not receive any other benefit from the Senate during the duration of her suspension; and
iv) notwithstanding paragraphs i), ii) and iii), during the period of her suspension, Senator Wallin shall have normal access to Senate resources necessary to continue life, health and dental insurance coverage;
And on the motion of the Honourable Senator Cowan, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fraser:
That the motion be referred to our Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament for consideration and report;
That Senators Brazeau, Duffy and Wallin be invited to appear; and in light of the public interest in this matter, pursuant to rule 14-7(2), proceedings be televised.
After debate,
The question was put on the motion.
Pursuant to rule 7-4(5), a standing vote was deferred until 5:30 p.m. tomorrow, with the bells to sound at 5:15 p.m. for fifteen minutes.
At 12:30 a.m., pursuant to rule 7-4(6), the Speaker declared the Senate adjourned until 2 p.m. later this day.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 14-1(7):
Reports of the Security Intelligence Review Committee for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2013, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2).—Sessional Paper No. 2/41- 138.
Reports of the Privy Council Office for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2013, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2). —Sessional Paper No. 2/41-139.
Report of the Security Intelligence Review Committee for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2013, pursuant to the Canadian Security Intelligence Service Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. C-23, s. 53. —Sessional Paper No. 2/41-140.
Report on the Public Servants Disclosure Protection Act for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2013, pursuant to the Act, S.C. 2005, c. 46, sbs. 38.1(4).—Sessional Paper No. 2/41-141.
Report of the Enterprise Cape Breton Corporation, together with the Auditor General's Report, for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2013, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 150(1).—Sessional Paper No. 2/41-142.
Reports of the Enterprise Cape Breton Corporation for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2013, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2).—Sessional Paper No. 2/41-143.
Summaries of the Corporate Plan for 2013-2014 to 2017-2018 and of the Capital and Operating Budgets for 2013- 2014 of the Enterprise Cape Breton Corporation, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).—Sessional Paper No. 2/41-144.