THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON OFFICIAL LANGUAGES
EVIDENCE
MONTREAL, Friday, September 17, 2010
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day at 9 a.m. to study the application of the Official Languages Act and of the regulations and directives made under it (topic: the English-speaking communities in Quebec).
Senator Maria Chaput (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Honourable senators and guests, welcome to the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages. I would like to first mention that interpretation is being provided and that headsets are available at the back of the room.
I am Senator Maria Chaput from Manitoba, and I am the chair of this committee. I am joined today for this day of hearings in Montreal by several colleagues, members of the committee, and I now invite them to introduce themselves.
[Translation]
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: I am Senator Suzanne Fortin-Duplessis. I represent the Senate riding of Rougemont, a suburb of Montreal. I was a member of Parliament for nine years.
It is a pleasure to meet you this morning, and I look forward to hearing what you have to say.
[English]
Senator Seidman: Good morning. I am Judith Seidman. I am a new senator. It has been exactly a year since I was sworn in by the Governor General. I am an anglophone from Montreal. I was born in Montreal, and so were my parents. This has been an incredible journey for us this week. As you know, we have been travelling through the province. We have heard from anglophone communities as far north as the Gaspésie, and we are winding up our travels here in Montreal.
I am pleased to be home and am looking forward to testimony from members of my community here in Montreal.
Senator Fraser: My name is Joan Fraser. I have been in the Senate for 12 years. Before that, I was a journalist in Montreal. I am another English Montrealer, also glad to be home and glad to be showing off Montreal.
Senator De Bané: I am Pierre De Bané, a senator from Quebec. Like Senator Fortin-Duplessis, I served previously in the House of Commons. I feel very strongly that having English and French as our official languages — the two most important languages of the western world — is a very precious asset. I believe very much in that. I hope that we can convince all Canadians how blessed we are to have those two languages, which are now enshrined in our Constitution, the supreme law of the land. It is a pleasure to meet with you.
The Chair: Several months ago, the committee decided that it was necessary to conduct a study on English-speaking minority communities. The Official Languages Act states that the Government of Canada is committed to enhancing the vitality of the English linguistic minority communities in Canada and supporting and assisting their development. One of the mandates of this committee is to study and report on the application of the act.
It is a pleasure to be in Montreal. The committee also held public hearings and meetings in Quebec City and Sherbrooke earlier this week. The objective is to conduct a comprehensive study of Quebec's English-speaking communities and to explore various areas affecting their development and vitality, such as community development, education, youth, arts and culture, and health care.
I take this opportunity to share with you the three objectives that the committee identified for this study. The first objective is to provide an overview of the situation of the English-speaking communities in Quebec by examining various aspects affecting their development. The second objective is to define the issues specific to English-speaking communities in Quebec and identify corrective measures deemed necessary for their development. The third objective is to make recommendations to the federal government to support the development and enhanced vitality of English-speaking minority communities.
The members of the committee have already met with dozens of individuals from various backgrounds and with varied experiences. We are looking forward to continuing our productive meetings this morning, and we start with a round table on the topic of arts and culture.
I would like to welcome four organizations: the English Language Arts Network, represented by Mr. Charles Childs, President, and Mr. Geoff Agombar, Office Manager; the Quebec Community Newspapers Association, represented by Mr. George Bakoyannis, Director and Past President, and Mr. Greg Duncan, Executive Director; the Quebec Drama Federation, represented by Mr. Patrick Goddard, Interim President, and Ms. Jane Needles, Executive Director; and the Quebec Writers' Federation, represented by Ms. Elise Moser, President, and Ms. Lori Schubert, Executive Director.
Welcome to you all. The committee thanks you all for having accepted its invitation to appear today. Each organization is invited to make a presentation of approximately five minutes, after which the members of the committee will follow with questions.
Honourable senators, I would like to remind you that this meeting is scheduled to end at eleven o'clock.
I invite the first organization to start with its presentation.
Charles Childs, President, English Language Arts Network: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I would like to start by saying that the Quebec English-speaking artists thank you and are encouraged that you have taken the time to listen to us today.
The committee's 2009 report on francophone arts and culture is an excellent document, which has many echoes within Quebec's English community. Even the omnipresence of American cultural product is a shared concern and, in some ways, is more detrimental in an English-speaking minority environment where there is no language barrier to serve as a filter. The following is a particular resonant phrase in the report: "Arts and culture are essential to the development and vitality of Francophone communities in minority settings." This, we believe, is equally true for anglophone communities in minority settings.
The English-Language Arts Network, ELAN, was created in 2005 following the Quebec Arts Summit, which brought together 200 senior artists and partners to examine the situation of English-language arts in Quebec. According to the most recent census, there are over 8,500 anglophones working in arts and culture in Quebec.
ELAN serves as a hub to three different communities: The first is language-based artists. The Quebec Drama Federation, QDF; the Quebec Writers' Federation, QWF; and the Association of English-Language Publishers all pre-date ELAN. All three have seats on ELAN's board to facilitate communication within the cultural community. ELAN's challenge is to add value and not duplicate services.
The film and television sector is a special case. There are more than 3,000 English-speaking actors, directors, writers and technicians in Quebec. Film is a language-based art form, but the situation in Quebec makes it difficult for film workers to organize as an official language minority.
The second community is non-language-based artists. When ELAN was first formed, the conventional wisdom was that painters, musicians and dancers had no need for an English-language network because their work is independent of language. While it is true that a paintbrush or a piano has no language, the artists who use them need to obtain information, training and support services in their own language. They need to publicize and promote their shows with language. ELAN has proven to be extremely popular with visual artists and musicians, who mostly work in isolation and lack support services in English.
The third community is the English-speaking community of Quebec. ELAN works closely with the Quebec Community Groups Network, QCGN, and its regional member associations to identify the needs and aspirations of the English-speaking community in all regions of Quebec. Arts and culture are important in education, as well as for entertainment, self-expression and tourism.
ELAN's key issues are visibility and access. The arts and culture sector is an exception to general trends in the English-speaking community. Many young people are choosing to stay and make a career in Quebec, older artists are returning and a significant number of artists from outside Quebec are attempting to establish careers here.
The main issue for anglophones in Quebec is not language per se. English-language product via television, radio, books and magazines does not lack in quantity, but there are serious issues about whose product it is. A large quantity of English-language programming available emanating from Hollywood, Toronto, Winnipeg or Vancouver does not strengthen our community; it undermines it. Without being able to tell our own stories, we are at risk of losing our sense of identity and attachment.
The English-speaking artists of Quebec have invested considerable time and energy into identifying key issues and priorities for our community development. These are laid out in ELAN's strategic plan and the policy framework on arts, culture and heritage, which was created by the QCGN in collaboration with ELAN and the Quebec Anglophone Heritage Network, QAHN. The policy framework was specifically created to identify priorities for community development in the context of the recently created Cultural Development Fund.
On visibility, although approximately 8,500 English speakers work in arts and culture — that is from the 2006 Canadian census — many of them of national and international stature, the English artistic community still suffers from invisibility for two reasons: The first being that Quebec has so many artists and so few media outlets, let alone English-language media, that everyone struggles for attention; second, both inside and outside of Quebec, the popular imagination is that Quebec's culture is French and that Canadian culture is English. It is very difficult for minorities to break through these preconceptions and attain recognition.
Access to arts and culture has three parts. The first part is communities. The further a community is located from Montreal, the less likely it is to have access to arts and culture.
The second part is venues. The thriving artistic community in Montreal requires performance and presentation space. Regional communities require improved infrastructure to enable them to present local and touring artists.
The third part is partners. The English-speaking arts community needs access to key partners and policymakers. Our community is at a much higher level of organization than it was in 2004, when the Quebec Arts Summit was on.
ELAN has made application for a project in 2010-12 called state of the arts. One of the major components of this project is a summit to bring together artists and partners to address key issues and priorities of community development. The other major component of state of the arts is a major cultural event that will celebrate the diversity and quality of talent in the community, not just for the local community but, we hope, for the national as well.
In conclusion, I would like to repeat the particular resonant phrase from the committee's 2009 report on francophone culture: "Arts and culture are essential to the development and vitality of Francophone communities in minority settings," and so it is for English communities.
Thank you very much.
Patrick Goddard, Interim President, Quebec Drama Federation: The Quebec Drama Federation, QDF, was founded in 1972 as the Quebec Drama Festival, and in 1992 changed its name and its mandate from presenting productions in competition to being the representative service organization for the English-speaking theatre community of Quebec. Since 1992, the QDF has grown in capacity and strength and now represents over 65 theatre companies and more than 300 individual theatre artists and practitioners.
In 1994, the QDF participated in the founding of the Quebec Community Groups Network as one of the key partners in bringing the English-speaking organizations together under an umbrella organization that had a different outlook on the realities of the English-speaking communities of Quebec.
Our mission is to support and serve the English-speaking theatre community throughout Quebec, and in order to accomplish this mission we note that we work closely with our francophone counterparts in the same service-type areas.
Jane Needles, Executive Director, Quebec Drama Federation: Referring to the current situation, the English-speaking theatre community is robust and vibrant but faces extreme difficulties in finding sources of funding to support their creative abilities. There are the two larger flagship companies — the Centaur Theatre and the Segal Centre — both of whom have a substantial following and a primarily subscription-based audience. However, the other smaller independent companies, even those that have been established for 15 years or more, find it difficult to present more than one or two productions a year due to lack of funding and support.
Some of these companies are the Black Theatre Workshop, 40 years old this year; Imago Theatre, 23 years old; Infinitheatre, 13 years old; Teesri Duniya Theatre, 29 years old; and Geordie Productions, 28 years old — to name only a few. Even though the quality is excellent, these companies struggle to get their work seen as costs of production, marketing and publicity are exorbitant. Print media are loath to spend support dollars on English-language productions as they get more profile supporting the French ones. The one major English-language daily newspaper, Montreal Gazette, is controlled from Winnipeg, and the general editorial attitude to promoting theatre in Quebec is negative. They believe that pop music, film and television are more popular with their readership.
Grant applications for funding to the provincial government funding body — Conseil des arts et des letters du Québec, CALQ — must be submitted in French, requiring major costs in translation to be attributed to every submission. This is because the CALQ juries often do not have a member of the jury who speaks or reads English fluently, jeopardizing the ability of the jury to fully comprehend the substance and content of the project or projects being presented for evaluation.
In terms of the allocation of funding to English-language artists and companies, there is a clear discrepancy in the amounts awarded in comparison to the amounts awarded to the francophone artists and companies. While this gap is diminishing somewhat, there remains the reality that an organization that is anglophone suffers from the difference.
With respect to corporate and private funding, Quebec has a very poor track record of private funding for the arts generally, as stated by the Board of Trade of Metropolitan Montreal. In fact, Quebec has an extremely low level of individual private donations to charities generally, let alone to arts organizations. This exacerbates the minority situation of anglophone artists, who suffer from being out of the mainstream majority and therefore are not able to offer corporate sponsors the visibility they seek.
Mr. Goddard: A major lacuna in the Quebec English-speaking community is found most notably in the regions, where access to arts and culture in English is practically non-existent. Only one company is able to tour the regions, and that is Geordie Productions. They produce theatre for young audiences; therefore, their work is seen primarily only within the schools. Funding is not available for other English companies or artists in almost any discipline, as it is perceived that the audiences are very small and widely spread apart. While this may be true, the fact remains that more than 300,000 English-speaking people are located throughout the regions of Quebec and are often isolated and cut off from access to any English-speaking arts and culture, even through radio and television.
Another major issue for the QDF is the lack of trained professionals in the educational system at the primary and secondary levels especially who teach cultural disciplines. This includes teaching English through drama and plays as the core focus of the lessons.
Lack of performance and creation space is another key concern for the QDF and the English-speaking community generally. Many attempts have been made to present projects and solutions to the provincial and federal governments on this particular issue. However, after many years, only two spaces remain that are known as primarily English-speaking venues — the Centaur Theatre and the Segal Centre — although there are smaller spaces, such as the Geordie Productions space and MainLine Theatre, whose seating capacity is very limited.
Companies continue to create and produce their shows from their living rooms and basements as no office space or creation space, rehearsal halls or construction venues are accessible, affordable or available. Performance spaces that are available are difficult to find as they are booked years in advance in many cases. As a result, often the independent companies go into venues that are primarily known for francophone productions, and the audience will not necessarily follow the companies to these areas. Equally, expenses are high for some venues, which make it prohibitive for the English companies to use them due to lack of funding and financial means — a vicious circle.
Visibility of the English-speaking artists and companies is another issue that concerns the QDF. The francophone artists work on a star system and therefore artists are known throughout the province as they appear on stage, in films and on television all the time. They become household names. This is not the case with anglophone artists, as film and television opportunities are limited.
Professional development opportunities are limited, as Emploi-Québec does not realize the magnitude of anglophone artists that live and work in Quebec. Monies are directed primarily to the francophone sector, depriving anglophones of key training opportunities that they require to keep their skills honed and up to date to remain competitive in the market. This includes access to French-language training, as for an artist to live and survive in Quebec, they must be able to speak and work in French. These days, many of the younger graduates from the theatre training schools are realizing that they must be bilingual, so they are fine-tuning this before they leave the school environment.
Ms. Needles: Overall, the English-language theatre has been very strong in Quebec for many years. It saw a huge upswing as a result of the plethora of cultural activities that transpired in Montreal during Expo '67 but suffered a dramatic downturn after 1976 with the major exodus of anglophones out of the province. We are now beginning to see a renewal of English-language theatre, which has begun to resurface after the 1995 referendum. However, we remain faced with a lack of comprehension of the conditions we work under in this province by our colleagues from outside the province. The common remark is, "Well, you live in Westmount, so what is the problem?"
The creative economy existent here in Quebec is vibrant and rich, and the work that is being done in collaboration with our francophone colleagues in the arts is exciting and challenging in all areas of the arts. As both Jane Jacobs and Richard Florida note, arts and culture are the foundation of a vibrant and prosperous community that is strong economically and attracts business investment. For Quebec this is very true, but the anglophone artistic community remains somewhat disadvantaged in their ability to bring their artistic talents to the forefront due to lack of recognition and support from all levels.
The Conference Board of Canada provided details of the reality of the value of arts and culture in our society. The GDP benefits from $84.7 billion per annum from arts and culture, which represents 7 per cent of the revenues. This percentage represents more than agriculture, mining, fisheries and forestry combined. Arts and culture employs more than 1.1 million people on a full-time basis. Therefore, why do the majority of artists in Quebec and across the country live below the poverty line? The average income for an artist in Quebec is a maximum of $10,000, earned from his or her art alone. The anglophones in Quebec may earn even less, often forcing them to leave the province for greener pastures.
Respected colleagues, we ask you to help us find solutions to our concerns and help us build a very strong anglophone artistic community in and throughout Quebec. Thank you.
Greg Duncan, Executive Director, Quebec Community Newspapers Association: Good morning. Thank you very much for your tour to hear what our communities have to say. We appreciate having the opportunity to present this morning.
The Quebec Community Newspapers Association, QCNA, represents a unique membership of publications that serve and inform Quebec's official language communities. QCNA member newspapers, of which there are 32, have a combined readership and audience of over 700,000. These figures allow us to safely say that we are the primary media serving official language communities in Quebec, and therefore our newspapers provide the best way to reach them — or reflect them, as it were.
QCNA’s newspapers provide the important and essential information and are a key contributor to maintaining a cultural identity and a sense of belonging for official language communities. Our mission is simple: QCNA is dedicated to the professional and economic development of English community newspapers and their enterprises serving minority communities in Quebec. I will say that increasingly we serve the majority as well with our publications.
Our newspapers increasingly experience difficulties in minority markets for reasons that can often be related specifically to official language policy for our sector, or really a lack thereof. The issues we face can have a trickle-down negative effect on employment, jobs and career options for youth is just one example; health, through an absence of information; and English-language arts, culture and heritage, again, an absence of vital information. If we are under-resourced and the papers cannot do it, then we cannot report; we cannot cover for the community.
Communications is another one of our challenges. I will speak primarily to the federal communications and government advertising — and, when we say "advertising," we really mean "information" — placed in our newspapers, which has declined substantially over the last several years, resulting often in economic crisis for many of our publications. At issue, beyond continuing economic disaster and further loss of jobs, is the increased absence of important information that official language communities rely on and are entitled to receive in their own language as per the government's own policies.
We point you to Public Works and Government Services Canada's, PWGSC, annual 2008-09 report as proof. While the most recent advertising report of 2008-09 specifies some $2.6 million of official language print advertising, Quebec's community newspapers combined only received $135,000 of this total in the same year — in fact, it is a little lower than that. The Government of Canada cannot satisfy official language criteria by continued placement of advertising and communications in large urban media in Quebec primarily. In addition, by our calculations, the combined volume of advertising communication in francophone official language newspapers outside of Quebec is nearly 10 times that destined to Quebec's official language community.
I will note here that we work very closely with l'Association de la presse francophone, APF, our counterparts. We have a very good relationship, and we are certainly not here to complain about the volume they receive. We wish to highlight the fact that perhaps communications are lacking toward the official language community in Quebec.
Another very important sector issue is the Canada Periodical Fund. It is essential for many of our members as they rely on it for affordable distribution and now editorial content creation of their products. Rural publications are in particular peril. I could use The Gaspé Spec as an example. We used to have a paper in the Magdalen Islands, but it is gone now. Primarily, Canada Post remains the only vehicle for cost-effective and efficient delivery. Any potential decrease in subsidy or cuts to this program in the future will result in irreversible negative consequences for community newspapers and overall community vitality. It is equally important that the program adjusts its eligibility criteria to specifically allow official language controlled — and free — circulation papers into the program; this is not currently the case. Mr. Bakoyannis's paper in Laval is an example of a paper that is not able to apply under the current criteria.
I will speak again on policy. There remains an absence of any formal recognition of the important role of official language community media specifically as the most efficient and effective way of reaching official language communities. The current roadmap on official languages does not adequately include reference to community media or community newspapers or communications in general as the official language priority. The Government of Canada must better recognize official language media associations that support this media equitably without discrepancy in funding levels between the francophone and anglophone minorities. These funding discrepancies are evidenced not only across our sector, but we witness this for the entire official language community of Quebec.
QCNA would be pleased to offer further evidence and potential solutions related to the issues that we have presented, and we thank you sincerely for your continued commitment to our official language communities.
Lori Schubert, Executive Director, Quebec Writers' Federation: The Quebec Writers' Federation, QWF, was created into 1998 from the merger of two existing community organizations. Since then our membership has grown steadily year by year, and our programming has expanded exponentially. Our mandate is to promote and encourage English-language literary arts, including translation, within the province and Quebec English writing in the rest of the Canada and further afield. Among our 600 members are established and emerging professional writers, as well as those who have an interest in writing and literary events for pleasure and personal fulfilment. Our members represent a wide diversity of ages, classes, and ethnic and linguistic backgrounds.
QWF plays an increasingly prominent role as an arts presenter and professional community educator and is recognized as a respected representative of Quebec's English-language writers by all three levels of government. Our activities are diverse and include, among others, the administration on an annual basis of six major literary awards and a community award, approximately 28 writing workshops, eight professional writing mentorships, about 20 readings and spoken-word performances, and five to seven community writing programs for at-risk populations.
Our partners, the Atwater Library and the Montreal Children's Library, house the QWF book collection and the QWF children's literature collection. Together these collections, donated by us, include adult and children's books by over 700 authors. We also publish and maintain a searchable online database of over 1,200 English-language books by Quebec authors and their francophone translators and a respected online literary journal, carte blanche.
Elise Moser, President, Quebec Writers’ Federation: To maximize our ability to reach out to various communities in Montreal and across the province, we have sought out and maintained many partnerships, including with The Centre for Literacy of Quebec, various public libraries, bookstores and universities, and cultural and community centres in the regions. QWF members were instrumental in founding Montreal's multilingual international literary festival, Blue Metropolis- Metropolis bleu, which we continue to support. In addition, we initiated multiple collaborations with our francophone counterpart, l'Union des écrivaines et des écrivains québécois.
We believe that cross-promoting our works is an important way to increase the audience for Quebec literature in both languages, strengthen our relationships with the community at large and ensure a thriving literary culture that attracts and retains talented writers from around the world. We also work with Quebec's English-language publishing community.
At least two thirds of our public funding goes right back into the community, mostly in the form of honoraria for writers. The jobs we provide help make it possible for these artists to write their poems, books, plays and screenplays. Our workshops are open to all and offer opportunities for social integration, skills training, professional networking and also the type of personal enrichment that is less easily quantified but no less valuable than the obvious economic benefits. The arts make people better citizens.
Our staff resources are stretched so tight that we lack the capacity even to research new sources of funding. For example, we could use resources that would allow us to expand the geographical reach of our programming. One special example of this is our very important Writers in the Community program, which sends writers to work with marginalized teenagers and other populations at risk. We have had many more requests for this program than we have been able to fulfil, due to lack of funds. In particular, we have not been able to extend this program into the regions where social and linguistic isolation and economic pressures on English-speaking communities can be severe. For example, we were forced to turn down a request from the Netagamiou Community Learning Centre on the Lower North Shore in 2009. They were looking for writers to work with grades 4, 5 and 6; secondary school students; adults; and seniors — in other words, almost everyone in their community.
In addition, the Quebec Anglophone Heritage Network, QAHN, proposed to partner with us in several communities outside Montreal for the secondary level. The Batshaw Youth and Family Centres have a facility in the Laurentians where they would love us to run workshops. They have been requesting this since 2007. The Committee for Anglophone Social Action in the Gaspé also approached us in 2007. Each of these requests denied represents a community in need that we have been unable to serve — and lost employment opportunities for writers.
We would also like to be able to offer writing workshops to communities whose opportunities for self-expression are limited. The ability to understand one's history, develop one's identity and express one's view of the world is crucial to the survival of communities. Literature, whether fiction, non-fiction, memoir or in other forms, is an invaluable tool for doing all of that.
Ms. Schubert: There is a clear precedent for federal funding for a provincial writers' association. Our francophone counterpart in Ontario, l'Association des auteures et auteurs de l'Ontario français, has received significant grant financing of $25,000 and over for at least the past three years. In fact, Canadian Heritage grants accounted for 25 per cent of their annual budget in 2009.
It is clear that with support from the federal government, QWF could have an even wider impact than we already do — both on the English-speaking community in Quebec and, with our partners, on the surrounding francophone community.
I know I am speaking for everyone — even though I have not asked — when I say sincerely that this has been very meaningful to us that you came here today. Thank you.
The Chair: Honourable senators, I will ask that you put your questions to our various groups of guests in the following order: English Language Arts Network, Quebec Community Newspaper Association, Quebec Drama Federation and Quebec Writer’s Federation. If the question is for a specific group, you can identify the people to whom it is directed. If you have a general question, you can also indicate whether you would like an answer from each group.
Senator Fraser will ask the first question.
[English]
Senator Fraser: I have a series of questions for Mr. Duncan and perhaps Mr. Bakoyannis. Starting from the top, you say that your member papers have a combined readership and audience of over 700,000. In the next sentence, you refer to these as verified circulation figures. What are we talking about, circulation or readership?
Mr. Duncan: Circulation is approaching 400,000, and the audience is 700,000. I knew you would ask that question. Thank you.
Verified third-party circulation is 400,000. Using measurement standards, that gives us an audience of 700,000. It includes web now.
Senator Fraser: How many of your newspapers are independently owned? How many of the members are independent papers?
George Bakoyannis, Director and Past President, Quebec Community Newspapers Association: I think probably half and half, if I am not mistaken. Mr. Duncan knows the numbers better.
Mr. Duncan: The number of publications is higher than that. In terms of circulation, we have two Transcontinental papers in the group now. Le groupe Transcontinental is in the group. However, the overwhelming balance is still independent newspapers.
Senator Fraser: How many journalists do you employ?
Mr. Duncan: That is a very good question.
Mr. Bakoyannis: At our office, we employ a number of journalists on a full-time basis and even more on a freelance basis. The number changes, depending on the time of the year, from two full-time journalists to sometimes one, but, again, we have about maybe six or seven journalists who constantly work for us on a freelance basis.
Senator Fraser: What area are you trying to cover with one or two full-time and six or seven freelance journalists?
Mr. Bakoyannis: In my particular situation, we publish a number of papers. We have two papers that are published in Laval — one is an English paper, and we started a French paper not long ago. We cover the city of Laval with this number of people, but there is an overlap. We also have a smaller paper in Montreal, and we do use the same people.
Senator Fraser: Which paper is that?
Mr. Bakoyannis: We have a paper in Montreal called the Parc-Extension News. It covers a very small area of Montreal called Park Extension, also known as the port of Canada because most new immigrants land there.
Senator Fraser: Do you think that your numbers, roughly speaking, in terms of journalists versus area to cover, would be typical? It is difficult to say, I know, when you are looking at the more distant regions, but it is also difficult for us to get a handle on the challenges you are facing versus the resources you have.
Mr. Bakoyannis: It is difficult to say. I think we are under the limit. This is a guess, because I do not know the numbers of what my competitors are doing, but, judging from size of our office, and so on, I think we are understaffed. We have to do more with what we have.
Mr. Duncan: Clearly, that is the case, and it is a trend. Beyond the economic issues that had nothing to do with official language issues – such as market issues, the economy, et cetera — over the years, yes, the number of journalists in particular has declined dramatically; therefore, making quality coverage harder. However, some gaps are being filled by freelancers journalists, contract people and community submissions.
Senator Fraser: It is a vicious spiral downward, is it not? The fewer journalists you have, the more the quality of coverage is likely to deteriorate.
Mr. Duncan: That is correct.
Senator Fraser: Any of us who read community papers in our own neighbourhoods have seen that. Papers that used to provide fantastic community coverage now barely cover city council meetings.
Mr. Duncan: You are right. This thing eats itself. It is extremely difficult to look ahead at how that will improve in terms of coverage given the resources and the economic and sectoral issues such as that.
Senator Fraser: Are most of the papers profitable?
Mr. Duncan: They are barely profitable; some are not and have not been for years.
Mr. Bakoyannis: We publish five papers: three are profitable, two are not. The three profitable papers are supporting the other two. Basically, we are not losing money; we will be able to hold on. However, we cannot increase our circulation or our coverage. Our papers are published bi-weekly. It is not feasible for us to publish on a weekly basis. We would need more staff, and the expenses would be too great.
Senator Fraser: In terms of federal government advertising, that is a pretty dramatic contrast between $135,000 and $2.6 million. Your members do not include the Montreal Gazette.
Mr. Duncan: No, they do not.
Senator Fraser: Do you have a concept of federal advertising if you included the Montreal Gazette?
Mr. Bakoyannis: I think the $2.6 million includes the Montreal Gazette. That money goes to official minority language newspapers in Quebec, so that does include the Montreal Gazette.
Senator Fraser: The $2.6 million includes the Montreal Gazette?
Mr. Bakoyannis: Yes, it does.
Senator Fraser: You only receive $135,000, is that correct?
Mr. Bakoyannis: We receive $135,000, but it is worse than that. Six or seven years ago the federal government was spending half the amount they spend now, about $800,000 or $900,000 dollars, and our group, QCNA, used to receive about $250,000 worth of advertising from the federal government. As the budgets were increasing, we were decreasing. That is our present situation.
Senator Fraser: On another committee, the chair and I heard anguished representations from francophone minority language newspapers about ads that the law requires federal government departments to place in minority language papers that, despite the Official Languages Act, were not being placed in those papers. That was for francophone minority language papers. Is the same true here?
Mr. Bakoyannis: Actually, it is worse because our French counterparts outside of Quebec, with whom we work very closely, receive much more than we do; some receive about 10 times more advertising than we do. If we receive $130,000 combined, we are talking about over $1 million for our French counterparts outside of Quebec, yet we have the same number of papers. We have about 32 papers in Quebec; they have 32 or 33 papers outside of Quebec. The federal government has been supporting that association and those newspapers much more than they have been supporting English papers in Quebec.
Senator Fraser: Do you complain to the Commissioner of Official Languages, for example?
Mr. Duncan: Yes, absolutely, we complain.
Senator Fraser: What happens to those complaints?
Mr. Duncan: Often the official language policy and the criteria around the placement becomes satisfied — and this is where it is frustrating — by an erroneous use of large urban media. Therefore, we make a complaint. It will have a big impact if we complain about Gaspé, but it is often too late. You make the complaint, it goes around, and the next thing you know a year has gone by.
In some cases and in suburban areas in particular, there is an assumption that the large media has the numbers and covers that off very well. We have offered proof time and again. We are happy to be part of the official language committee that works with PWGSC, and we have addressed it a couple times, but the action is slow. It is the same for West Quebec with overspill from —
Senator Fraser: The Ottawa Citizen?
Mr. Duncan: Right.
Senator Fraser: You can name people, you know.
Mr. Duncan: I am being, perhaps, too politically correct.
As an example – and we do not have all the diligence on this — in Laval, the ad for these committee hearings today did not appear in our papers. However, it is in the Montreal Gazette. This is sort of the methodology gone wrong, despite all the efforts. Clearly, we know where populations reside. Agency planners and people know how to do this. However, for one reason or another, the practice continues. At the end of the day, the communities themselves, particularly in the regions, are in the dark half of the time. When National Defence goes out recruiting with print ads, or whatever, and they overlook the regions, it is insane. Where do you think the kids are coming from? Thank you.
Senator Fraser: Could you put me down for a second round, please?
The Chair: I will add a question to Senator Fraser's questions to you, gentlemen, about your newspapers.
You talked about the lack of policies or programs on the federal level that do not include or talk about community media. We would like you two gentlemen to share potential solutions with this committee. If you do not want to do it now, you can do it later. However, we would like to hear potential solutions – I am referring to community media because I believe that is what we are talking about.
Mr. Duncan: Yes, it is what we are talking about.
Mr. Bakoyannis: Should we take it later?
Mr. Duncan: We would love to follow up and offer potential solutions.
The Chair: You could send that to the clerk of our committee.
Mr. Bakoyannis: We will do that.
Mr. Duncan: Thank you very much.
Senator Seidman: Thank you all for your presentations. I will start with a couple of specific questions and then maybe something more general, and then we will see how it evolves.
It is interesting that the same words keep cropping up. If you make a list of key words over the course of this week, there is a commonality. Among all the words that come up, two come up clearly, namely, "identity" and "survival." We have heard that all week. Indeed, the anglophone minority communities are very different across Quebec. That is why we say "communities." However, they are all very fragile.
We have also discovered that anglophones have enormous difficulty with a sense of identity. We also know that arts, culture and media have an enormous impact on a community's vitality. In Mr. Childs' written submission, he quoted the Commissioner of Official Languages, taken from the September 7, 2010, Beyond Words: "In a nutshell, the English language is not endangered in Quebec — but the English communities are." We have had this theme recurring.
We all know English is the language of the majority in the rest of the country. Therefore, the English language is not in danger, but it is the case that the English communities are in danger in Quebec.
I wish to ask Ms. Moser and Ms. Schubert about libraries, bookstores, publishing and books. Could you tell me something about the state of those for English language in Quebec?
Ms. Moser: Yes. As it happens, I am not just a writer, but also I have been working in the book industry in Canada for 30 years. I visit bookstores, and, as you must know, similar to newspapers, globally, the book industry has been affected by changes in technology and changes in culture. Publishers and bookstores in Quebec — English-language publishers and bookstores here — have been affected by that, namely, many more books are being published and fewer books are being bought. We are at a tipping point where the technology is changing. We are gradually shifting from paper books, which are still the vast majority, to various types of electronic books. We are seeing that change happening much more quickly in the school and university environment than in the trade. That is an area that, for many publishers, used to support the rest of their publishing. Therefore, it is having a big impact on the capacity to adapt and continue.
How does that affect us specifically here? There is the Association of English-language Publishers of Quebec; I do not know all their material. However, bookstores are struggling. Both bookstores and publishers in Quebec suffer from a double invisibility: Francophone Quebecers do not know that we exist and neither do English Canadians outside of Quebec. When I worked in a bookstore for 12 years, it was a constant frustration that we could not get publishers to send authors to do events in Quebec because they did not think we had English book buyers here, despite the fact that the English-language book market in Quebec is larger – because we have a large population here — than that in Saskatchewan and Manitoba combined. That is a problem for us. It is something that the Quebec Writers' Federation has worked recently to try to mitigate. We have run a promotion campaign where we have tried to make English Quebec writing visible in the rest of Canada.
Some of the most important writers in Canadian literature come from English Quebec, yet they are not identified as English Quebecers. Part of the problem is one of visibility.
Senator Seidman: If any of you feel that you have not quite completed your answers and have more to say, for example, if you have recommendations, suggestions or solutions, we, as a committee, would urge you to please submit them in writing because we will be working on a report that we hope to begin at the end of this month. Please do submit these things to us.
I would like to ask a question of Mr. Duncan. I believe our chair has already partially begun that question. It concerns two comments you made at your conclusion. One refers to the Canada Periodical Fund. You said, "It is essential for many of our members as they rely on it." However, you then concluded by saying, "It is equally important that the program adjusts its eligibility criteria to specifically allow official language controlled — and free — circulation papers." Could you please explain that?
Mr. Duncan: The eligibility criteria for the program itself — and this has been the case for a number of years, although it was a publication assistance program previously — specifically states that it is for by-request sold circulation papers, whether that is at the newsstand or by subscription. Despite our lobbying efforts specifically to have the free official language community papers included and despite the new program being in place now, which is the Canada Periodical Fund, that is still not the case.
The minister was attentive when we kept saying this. However, a large part of the official language community could be better served by the inclusion of these papers. We will use Laval as an example. Mr. Bakoyannis has controlled circulation papers that are equally valid and editorially contain important information about arts and culture, health, youth, and so on. However, they are not eligible for the program simply because they are not by-request papers. This is the reality. Mr. Bakoyannis is forced to get that paper out. People are spread out all over the place, and he is forced to do that. He may wish to add something here.
Mr. Bakoyannis: It is the market conditions. We have to compete with other papers, and it is not feasible to have a subscription-based newspaper because our numbers would not be the same. We are not covering a geographic area at this time. Therefore, our advertisers would not be interested in advertising in our newspaper. It is a business decision that we must make to remain a free distribution paper, a controlled distribution paper. Being a controlled distribution paper, we are not eligible to apply for this program, although I did apply and was rejected. I wanted to be rejected officially.
I do not know if I answered your question.
Senator Seidman: I believe you did. I live in the larger city of Verdun. On Île des Soeurs, we have a weekly periodical that no longer has any English in it. It used to be a semi-bilingual periodical; they would try to translate as many articles as they could. However, it is totally in French now. Accessing community news is a recurring problem for many anglophone communities even on the Island of Montreal. Most of it comes from the free circulated community papers. Thank you; I appreciate that.
Mr. Duncan, you also said, "The current roadmap on official languages does not adequately include reference to community media or community newspapers or communications in general as official language priority." You say that you would be "pleased to offer further evidence and potential solutions." Perhaps you could say something briefly on the record now, and then please submit something further to us in writing.
Mr. Bakoyannis: We just covered one of them. English-minority papers in Quebec would be helped greatly if they were supported by this program. It is also important for the federal government to use community newspapers more in their advertising. I do not know how to put it, but our French counterparts outside of Quebec enjoy a certain status. They receive advertising based on some type of agreement; I do not know what that is. That is the way to go here in Quebec. Since the money is being spent — and we are not asking for more; we are just saying that it needs to be better spent — advertising in our papers should be bought more often. A great deal of advertising money is being spent by the federal government, but clearly not enough of it is going to our papers.
Mr. Duncan: I wish to add one more thing, namely, the absence of policy around verified circulation.
Our association insists that a paper is verified for its circulation by a third party, and recognized industry people do that. We witness repeatedly, particularly around election periods, fly-by-night publications that do not exist one minute but exist the next, and they receive government messages in the same markets where we have verified papers that are not verified because somehow they have managed to get on an old official language list and have not fallen off it. We have dealt with this many times with both PWGSC and the Office of the Commissioner of the Official Languages when it happens. Some programs, such as the Canada Periodical Fund, have policy, yet the communication to the larger field is critical. We do not understand accountability being touted as the biggest thing that has ever happened when there is an absence of accountability when spending money on non-verified media.
Mr. Bakoyannis: Not only our association but also associations all across Canada, including our parent association, the Canadian Community Newspapers Association, CCNA, would like to see the federal government advertising in newspapers accredited by their associations. Basically, if a newspaper is not part of an association, please do not advertise. We want membership, but many people do not want to become members of our association because of our mandate, which clearly states that they have to be audited.
Let me tell you about the situation that I am dealing with now in Laval. I have a newspaper printed outside of Laval, and they claim that they have 140,000 papers and that they do all of Montreal. I think Mr. Duncan knows who I am talking about. That is clearly not the case. They are taking their numbers and multiplying them by 10, maybe more, to compete with other newspapers. That occurs in the industry – and, yes, that paper is getting federal ads.
One of the biggest and easiest steps for the federal government to take to level the playing field and to help all the true newspaper, not those that are grabbing everything, is to stop advertising in newspapers that are not accredited by the associations in Canada. We all have similar demands for membership.
Senator Seidman: Thank you very much. Madam Chair, I might reserve more questions for the second round.
The Chair: I believe we will have time for a second round. We will take the time that we need to take.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: I found all of your briefs very interesting. Pardon my ignorance, but I learned something: I did not even know that you had English theatre companies. The only English-language theatre I was aware of was the Statford festival in Ontario. So you can appreciate that I was taken aback by all this.
As far as regional news goes, once CBC or Radio-Canada, for instance, has covered all the major events that took place across the country and around the world, there is time allotted for regional news, to cover important regional happenings.
If you could get a bit of airtime to talk about a show that Centaur or Segal is putting on, for example, or even Geordie Space or MainLine Theatre, would you receive coverage from our major networks during the regional news?
Ms. Needles: That is a good question. That is something we complain about, because English-language theatre is overlooked. There are a few networks, Radio-Canada or CBC, that will on occasion do interviews if they think the company is fairly well-known or interesting enough. Those interviews are shorter now. They are shorter and shorter because English-language theatre is not interesting. The same goes for La Gazette — it covers pop music, festival films and the big things, but not theatre; the coverage is non-existent. Even for our French-speaking counterparts — I work next to the Conseil québécois du théâtre; we are neighbours in the same building — and when I sit on their board of directors, a number of them are surprised to see that we have more than 65 English-language theatre companies here. They ask us, "where are you?" They have heard of Segal and Centaur but not the others.
This is a pretty serious problem that needs to be addressed. The media does not consider the theatre to be important enough. We are not Stratford or the Théâtre du Nouveau Monde, but we do exist and we work very hard. According to statistics, there are more than 8,000 artists working in English in Quebec — I just found the statistics yesterday — 118,000 French-speaking and English-speaking artists, who make up 3 per cent of the workforce in Quebec, more than anywhere else in Canada.
This is a problem. We are overlooked, and they are constantly cutting us.
Mr. Goddard: If I may give you a concrete example of what is happening: on Monday evening, we launched our fall schedule of English-language theatre events in Quebec. It was our first launch. We invited the media, and we put on a sort of showcase in which 16 participating companies performed parts of their show.
It was very representative; there were around 175 people in a theatre that holds 85 —a resounding success. And yet the arts editorial office of La Gazette did not cover the event, which was very representative of the richness of the English-language theatre community in Quebec. The reporter was on holidays.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: This is what I have noticed in Quebec City. If a new opera comes to town, what happens is that journalists attend the last rehearsal, and even if it is not a dress rehearsal, they take a photo without necessarily interviewing the producers or anyone else. They give us just a preview; you hear a bit of the opera, which is very appealing, and that is what they show the public. I think we should perhaps approach the CRTC to have them ask Radio-Canada and CBC to promote events in the communities. This makes no sense!
As for books, Quebec City has a tremendous number of bookstores that sell only English-language books. And that works. So the coverage is really quite good as far as books go. But, when it comes to theatre, it is clear that we will need to give you a bit of a boost so you can try to spread the word about what you are doing, because that is important in terms of a community identity.
Ms. Needles: May I add something really quickly? It is hard for the urban community in Montreal, yes, but not as hard as it is for the regions. In the regions, when CBC comes on in the afternoon — I always listen to it on Radio One — they talk about the regions, but the show is broadcast from Montreal now. And they almost never include comments from the regions, except for an occasional few mintues during a two-hour period in the afternoon that is broadcast from Quebec City. So yes, they cover things in the regions.
Afterwards, however, in the winter when the snow falls, something very interesting happens: the CBC and Radio-Canada trucks cannot get off the island of Montreal without snow tires, and they do not want to spend money on any. So their trucks stay on the island of Montreal, and there is no coverage of the regions because no one wants to make the trip without snow tires. It is as simple as that.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: It is true that, when you broadcast a program in the afternoon, those who work cannot listen. People have to be at home to tune in.
Ms. Needles: I listen to it when I travel between Bishop’s and Montreal, in the afternoon.
[English]
Mr. Childs: You mentioned the Canadian Radio-television Telecommunications Commission, CRTC. ELAN has been working through a committee that is looking at the regulations of the CRTC. One of the requirements of the cable channels is that they collect a percentage of the cable fees charged to customers to do English-language programming. It seems that Vidéotron has collected about $13 million over the past 12 years but has not produced any English-language programming. We approached the CRTC with this concern, and their answer was for us to speak to Vidéotron to see what their answer was. Thus far, we have not been able to get a response from Vidéotron. However, we are encouraged because the Commissioner of Official Languages did approach Vidéotron to ask whether we could have a meeting with them.
This is something to be addressed in the future, but it is an indication of the past 12 years. Under the regulation of the CRTC, there was supposed to be English-speaking programming, but the community was not informed of this requirement. We only discovered this recently and are now looking to see what Vidéotron can do to respond to this. This is an indication of the work that the organizations must do because even where there is a federal government regulation, it is not followed up.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: I hope you will get a favourable response.
Mr. Agombar: Just a clarification on that. That issue has to do with Videotron. Since CFCF-TV was bought in 1995 or 1996, it seems that approximately 98 per cent of English-speaking Quebeckers are with Videotron. We are still working on the file, but it is related to that issue.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: I have another brief comment or question. I am not sure whether anyone could give me their opinion on this. Here, in Montreal, do you have any community channels? In Quebec City, we have a community channel, which lets people know about a number of things. Obviously, not as many people watch that channel as they do the major networks, but it is still interesting. I was wondering whether you have one or more community radio stations.
[English]
Mr. Childs: We do not have an English-language station similar to TFO, the French TV station. There is not an English-language TV station available in Quebec for the English-speaking community in Quebec. We are hoping to evolve the funding that the CRTC has allowed Vidéotron to collect to see whether we can develop this into a community English-language TV station similar to TFO in the rest of Canada. We do have TV stations that are part of CFCF-TV. Again, little if any programming is created here in Quebec; it is brought in by the affiliates outside.
We had a small production at Centaur Theatre in which the CBC was involved, and their equipment had to be brought from Toronto because the English section could not get any support from the CBC in Montreal. Equipment was shipped from Toronto to use in Montreal for one night and then shipped back.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: That is totally unacceptable.
Ms. Needles: I want to say something else about the regions — I am a big supporter of the regions. The Quebec Drama Federation has just completed the first phase of a study on the availability of English-language culture in the regions. It is non-existent. There is only Geordie Productions, which puts on productions for young audiences and performs in schools. As far as other productions go, it is very costly to travel to the regions, and they cannot afford to bring in more productions.
I asked the Canada Council for the Arts to make tour funding available to companies here, in Montreal. Geordie can receive funding to go to the far north but not to Coaticook, which is 100 miles away. The north is much farther.
And something else to note: it is sometimes almost impossible to access radio and television in the regions, including Côte-Nord. Most of the northern regions do not have high speed. In places like Metis Beach, it is not possible to listen to English-language radio because there are no satellites or antenna transmission. There is just one school, which has just acquired a fibre-optic cable for high-speed transmission. That is the only place equipped with high-speed access, and it is for the students. Seventy-five people live there in the winter, and 2,500 in the summer. So the question is, what do we do?
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Thank you all very much.
[English]
Senator De Bané: The different briefs that I have heard have opened my eyes and have made me discover several aspects that I did not know before. As the Commissioner of Official Languages said, the English language is not in danger but English communities are. We will reflect on many of the things that you have told us. One positive thing is what Mr. Childs said, namely, that our coming here made you realize that there are programs for official languages for people living in minority situations. There is funding there of which you were not aware, so I am happy that the presence of our committee has helped you to realize that.
Of all of the things that I have heard, the saddest is what the Quebec Drama Federation told us. The Conseil des arts et des lettres du Qubec, CALQ, and the juries in Quebec often do not have a member of the jury who either speaks or reads English fluently. In a community of over 1 million people in the province of Quebec, to not have one member of the jury who can read or speak English, is shocking. What is this? I was also shocked in Quebec City when I learned that the directorate of the department of education – and there must be between 1,000 and 2,000 civil servants — the directorate dealing with the English-speaking schools in the province of Quebec, totals a grand number of 30 people, of which two indicate that their mother tongue is English.
We have heard testimony that I am sure we will reflect upon, for example, the situation where no member of the jury can read or speak English. Another example is that the amount of advertising in French-speaking newspapers or weeklies in the rest of Canada – that is, outside of Quebec — is 10 times greater than that being offered to the English-speaking community in a minority situation.
I was particularly interested in the brief by ELAN. I was surprised when you told us, after reminding us that film and TV production is essentially a language-based art form, that neither the national organizations nor the Quebec organizations look to the film producers and TV producers or people involved in that industry in Quebec; they look to you positively. This is beyond me. Neither the national organizations nor the Quebec ones — they look favourably to those thousands of people in Quebec who are involved in that. Can you explain that to us?
Mr. Childs: One of the reasons filmmakers, and artists in general, artists that work here in the province, choose to be here is because of the connection to the francophone culture and francophone artists. Unless you have a specific reason to identify yourself as an English-language artist, it is better not to mention it.
If you are a writer, of course you write in English, so you are identified as English. However, just like the dancers and the filmmakers, although some films are made in English, they are often working with departments of the film institute — and even Telefilm Canada in these areas — that are very much focused on a francophone culture. Therefore, it is not in their best interest to self-identify. That is why, when organizing themselves in that, they do not want to be identified that way. That is the difficulty.
Senator De Bané: Obviously, for the French-speaking Quebec organizations, it is self-evident; we do not need any explanation there.
Mr. Childs: Yes, that is correct.
Senator De Bané: You say that a large quantity of English coverage coming from Hollywood undermines a sense of local identity. I thought that was a support to our English artists here, am I wrong?
Mr. Childs: If the only information, stories and people on our televisions are being presented in those media, they represent people from someplace else. We are not having the opportunity to tell our own stories, to see our own local artists or to have interviews with our English writers as opposed to an English writer in Winnipeg or Toronto.
Therefore, without having the sense of who we are in the community and who our artists are, we do not look to support them. It adds to our invisibility. We do not say, "Oh, I saw that program about that writer, and I see they are having a book launch; I will go to it and maybe buy their book." We are losing that connection.
You are right that is not the same in the language issue – we have many opportunities to engage in the English language. It is a question of us, as the local artists, expressing ourselves.
Senator De Bané: You did say that the main issue for anglophones in Quebec is not language per se.
Mr. Childs: That is right.
Senator De Bané: I want to share with you my admiration for the last projects you established to exchange with French-speaking artists and pairing English and French together. This is so commendable.
Ms. Needles: The influence of the Hollywood milieu is also very detrimental to artists in Quebec because everyone knows artists from the Hollywood milieu earn six- and seven-figure incomes. Hence, the conclusion is that because you are English and will obviously be from Hollywood eventually, you also earn a six- or seven-figure income. However — I gave you the figures — in reality $10,000 is the maximum income for artists in Quebec.
Senator De Bané: Also they say, "You are from Westmount."
Ms. Needles: Exactly, so they assume you do not have a problem. That is another issue with the Hollywood influence.
Senator De Bané: With respect to access to arts and culture, the first point you made is something to which we have been exposed very much in our meetings, namely, that the further the communities are located from Montreal, the less likely they are to have access to arts and culture. That point has been made very clear to us.
About the lack of venues, you say that a centralized office-space community is a long-standing dream. You see this in Quebec, where there is only one English-speaking CEGEP, no gymnasium, no theatre, et cetera. Of course, according to the number of students, they should be entitled to it.
Now, the centralized office-space community that is a long-standing dream, what size are you talking about? How many square feet? How much would it cost, et cetera?
Ms. Needles: It is something that I have dreamed about since I came here in 1967. It is a need that has been expressed especially by the smaller companies. These people, as I noted, work out of their living rooms. They have shoe boxes for accounting books. They beg, borrow and steal from their mothers, fathers and neighbours to put on their productions because they have a passion, but they have nowhere to create.
We are looking for a space that is able to house the smaller companies for the short periods of time that they are actually in production. We need rehearsal halls, which are very hard to find; the actual production and creation space; storage space; and offices.
At one point, we had 30 different companies and organizations, including the service organizations, that were interested in participating in this. We have been looking at old, abandoned schools, where eventually a performance space can be added. However, the synergy that is created by all these companies working together is one of the most important factors.
At one point, we were actually looking to work with francophones, anglophones and multilingual people because, again, the synergy, the changing between the disciplines — and working music, dance and theatre together — would have been great. Again, because everyone is an individual, they are their own creators; it is very hard to share, so territorial issues become a big part of it. It is difficult to get the whole community all on the same page to say that they really want this, and the governments are looking for a concerted and concentrated effort. This is what I am hearing.
Senator De Bané: Thank you, Madam Chair. Can you add my name to the list for the second round of questions?
The Chair: Yes, of course. We have now come to the second round, and we will start with a question from Senator Fraser.
[English]
Senator Fraser: The more you hear, the more you want to learn. A couple of facts occurred to me. The CBC winter tire problem surely will no longer be a reasonable excuse, in that provincial law now requires winter tires. They cannot send the trucks out of the parking lot if they do not have winter tires, so they will have to find a different excuse.
I do know a little about the situation, both at the CBC and at the Montreal Gazette, and I am not here to defend their coverage, but I am here to tell you that they too, both organizations, have huge budget problems and huge financial pressures. They have to make heart-rending decisions every day about what they will not cover. It is not that they are big and rich and fat and could do it if they were only willing to do it necessarily.
On the CRTC and Vidéotron issue, I think part of the problem, of which you may or may not be aware, is that the CRTC has no power to discipline people who do not keep their promises; none. Write letters to the government saying that they should be able to find people. Other than that, it seems to me that you would be able to make a splendid intervention when Vidéotron goes up for a licence renewal, but between now and then, that is my suggestion.
On the matter of travel to the regions, do I understand that the Canada Council for the Arts has a budget to help dramatic companies or writers travel, but we just do not receive any of it here?
Ms. Needles: A touring program is available for theatre companies specifically and also for writers to travel, but it is quite limiting. If you want to tour a theatre company, you have to go outside of your province, do two or three other provinces and have a minimum of five performances.
Senator Fraser: Therefore, I could receive a grant to go from Summerside, Prince Edward Island, to Moncton, New Brunswick; but not to Harrington Harbour in Quebec.
Ms. Needles: Exactly. Geordie Productions can go from Montreal to Inukjuak because it is a region that is far, but they cannot go to Coaticook.
Ms. Schubert: The Literary Readings and Author Residencies Program of the Canada Council for the Arts will award honoraria for writers and travel money normally up to a maximum of $400. I believe you can ask for twice that amount in extreme cases, but it will only cover travel; it will not cover accommodations or per diems.
Senator Fraser: You will not travel a long way on $800 in this province.
Ms. Schubert: No, not with the size of this province.
Senator Fraser: I think that is something we should explore. If you have any documentation about the criteria for these programs, it would probably be very helpful to see.
Back to news, on the postal subsidy, the periodical fund, how many of your members are controlled circulation papers?
Mr. Duncan: It is an increasing trend, and it is currently 70 per cent of our members, versus 10 per cent of members 10 and 15 years ago.
Senator Fraser: How strict are the controls? We have all seen apartment building lobbies with stacks of papers dumped there, papers that I believe belong to your association. Are you satisfied that your industry controls are that rigorous?
Mr. Bakoyannis: It is in our interest to ensure that our papers get to where they are supposed to go. Every copy costs us money to produce, print and distribute. There is no "free" in free circulation, so we make sure that they get out and are delivered to the required doors. We keep an eye on that periodically. We check up on our distributors and the delivery. Our readers do a great job of informing us when they do not receive their paper. They call to ask what happened to the paper, and we know how to follow up. We do not have a problem controlling distribution of our papers and ensuring they arrive at their destinations.
Senator Fraser: There have been some changes, either announced or made, to the periodical fund lately. I confess that I am not too clear on what they are. Can you set the stage for us?
Mr. Bakoyannis: I am not sure about all of them. However, I believe they made changes for the requirements, changes in the number of copies that you must sell in a year to qualify for the program. It used to be a much higher number; they made a small concession there. However, I do not think it really impacted anyone because if you are a free distribution paper, you are a free distribution paper.
Senator Fraser: Yes, but it could make a difference for small subscriptions, and there are some.
Mr. Bakoyannis: Usually with the small subscription papers, it does not matter how small you are. If you are a subscription paper, you would recevie the subsidy. They would meet that all the time. They try to help papers that have some subscription but not the major part of it.
Mr. Duncan: One of the major changes was the old Publications Assistance Program — the PAP program we used to call it — which is now the Canada Periodical Fund, CPF, and was traditionally the Canada Magazine Fund, CMF. It is good news for community newspapers because the program continued while we have potential for support for editorial content, this problem about being able to produce it. We say that this program is extremely important because a publisher who is eligible can apply for support for editorial content. Previously, that was not the case; it was virtually a postal subsidy; Canada Post was in the program, which it is not any longer. It is good news for community newspapers. On the other hand, we are still sitting here with what we consider to be editorially good papers that are ineligible for the program. That was our issue.
With respect to the major changes to the program, Minister Moore himself will say that they cannot determine beyond 2012; no one has a crystal ball. However, we are saying that this program must continue way beyond 2012.
Senator Fraser: Again, any material you could provide for us, even if it is only web links, would be helpful. This is not the field in which this committee normally operates, so we are on a learning curve here as well. Could you also provide a list of your members and, if possible, their owners?
Mr. Duncan: Yes, we have that broken out very nicely for you. I should mention that we do have many bilingual papers, so you will see that. If you visit the site, there is one document I know the clerk had produced, which shows the link to our page. If you go to our site, clearly that is all there, but we will definitely send that.
Senator Fraser: Thank you very much.
Finally, community media — the roadmap on official languages, et cetera —, as my colleague was suggesting, are not just community newspapers. Community radio can be very important, not in the sense of local CBC but in the sense of small non-profit community-oriented radio. It seems to me that there ought to be room for partnerships there. Are there any?
Mr. Duncan: Partnerships do exist. There have been previous attempts, and there is always discussion. In terms of our organization, we are clearly looking at a number of things as we evolve, and we have made mistakes along the way that we will revisit.
I will not speak long about the community radio network in Quebec, but that is another area that really needs support. You know how large it is. It is strong and pretty healthy; it needs support outside of the province definitely, but in Quebec it does not. However, it can come down to sharing a journalist who can provide arts coverage.
When we talk about community media, that definition is not just geographical any longer. It can be a community of soccer moms; it really can. Is that web-based? Is it digital? There is all of that to consider.
This is why I intentionally said "community media" there. Clearly, we are part of that, and that is our primary focus. However, I use the word "enterprise" because our companies — and Mr. Bakoyannis is one of them — our members are becoming multi-media companies to the best of their ability.
Senator Fraser: Big papers are going increasingly onto the web. What about small community papers?
Mr. Duncan: They are struggling with it. Some are going to the web.
Mr. Bakoyannis: Like I said, we are doing the best we can. Obviously, huge costs are involved when it comes to creating websites, maintaining websites and updating them on a regular basis.
We do have a presence on the web, but we do not really feel that it is good enough to compete with some of the other media on the web. We always feel we are behind, that we must catch up. However, yes, most of our papers have a web presence today. We are making very little money with it. It is just a drop in the bucket, nothing to talk about.
Senator Seidman: In the Eastern Townships, we heard from the Quebec Anglophone Heritage Network, QAHN. They told us that there is very little support for or even interest in the history of anglophone communities, let alone any visibility of anglophone history in the schools and in the media. We think of using the schools and media of course to help foster a sense of community. I would like to know about the presence of anglophone culture, meaning artists, writers, theatre. What presence do you have in at least the English-language schools in Quebec?
Ms. Needles: The phase-one study of the touring network has identified areas, schools and heritage networks — museums, libraries and buildings — throughout the region that could be used by arts and culture and that they want to have used by arts and culture. This study was taken in partnership with the QAHN, the Heritage Network.
Part of that will also be connected into the community learning centres, CLCs, with the huge advantage of video-conferencing networks. We have six centres here in Montreal that can reach out into the regions, and they can interconnect with themselves.
That is part of the results of the phase-one study, which will be implemented when we start on phase two to figure out how we can actually do this. There is a clear recognition of the need for heritage. In fact, here in Quebec, ELAN and the community always refer to arts, culture and heritage, the three of them together, as they are very much interconnected.
Mr. Childs: In a province, the ministry of education of course has very little desire or focus for promotion of English-language heritage, or arts and culture, for that matter. One of the goals of ELAN is to try to bridge that and provide access to the ministry to actually encourage English-language artists in the schools through the different programs. I know some work has been happening with the writers' federation in that area, but it is an uphill battle.
Ms. Schubert: The province has two programs, Writers in Schools and Writers in CEGEPs, and each has a component for English-language artists to go into schools. The role of the Quebec Writers' Federation has been limited to, for which we are grateful, forming a jury for each of those programs to select, to vet the writers who would be eligible to go into the schools. Last year, I learned that the budgets are not being fully used by the schools — the CEGEPs. I believe it is an issue of awareness.
We have put things on our website, but again, for us, almost everything comes down to a capacity problem. I do not know if your clerk handed out the green sheet that will show you all of the different things we do. We are a cheap date: We do it on less than $250,000 a year, of which only $54,000 is core funding from the province. With that, we can afford one part-time executive director, which is me — I am almost full time but not quite full time — and one person who comes in three days a week. Therefore, we cannot launch a campaign to notify all the schools and all the teachers in the schools because they need to apply independently. We cannot do that without stopping the answering our phones and registering people for our workshops and so forth. That is a problem of awareness. I am not sure what the solution is, and it is something of which I only recently became aware.
One other fact that goes with that is that in the past, the Writers in Schools program — funded, I believe, by the Ministry of Culture, Communications and the Status of Women — used to provide money so that the schools could purchase the books of the writer who was coming in. We have just been informed that for Writers in CEGEPs this year, there will no longer be a budget for the English-language writers. I do not know if that is true for French as well, but the books will not be purchased.
Senator Seidman: Having heard this, we do not need to discuss the media and their role here because we have already heard and discussed that. I am more interested in schools at the moment and what we might do to help foster a sense of community, culture and identity among youth because that is the core of it.
Would it be profitable or would it be a good idea to create some type of initiative to favour identity culture among youth? If so, what, for example, might each of you propose given your expertise in your own particular area?
Ms. Moser: In our presentation, we spoke briefly about a program that we already have in place called Writers in the Community, where we send writers out to do writing workshops usually with youth at risk, but we design workshops for anyone who requests them, as long as we can get to them. We also have the Writers in the Schools and the Writers in the CEGEPs programs. The sky is the limit if we have resources. However, we already have several programs that are working but we just cannot expand to meet the need.
Senator Seidman: I am sorry; I should have said that the second part of that question would be, once you tell us what you think might work, how we can help you maximize the opportunity for it to happen. I think you have already given us the answer to the first part; now you are giving us the answer to the second part of that question.
Ms. Moser: The travel issue is big, and as Ms. Schubert said, capacity is big for us. We already do much more with the resources that we have than is imaginable. It is mostly due to the fact that Ms. Schubert is extraordinary. However, it is also due to the fact that we have a very engaged membership, many volunteers and fantastic community partners. There is a great deal of goodwill and desire out there, and people will pour themselves into any good opportunity. We just need to have those two things especially — the ability to travel to further communities and to increase our own capacity.
Ms. Needles: For the QDF, there are two elements. First, QDF is already working in partnership with Canadian Parents for French, CPF. Our young artists, our own graduates from theatre schools, go into daycares and teach young daycare students how to speak French through theatre. That was hugely successful in a pilot project last year; it was 12 sessions long and a huge success. We now have 25 schools wanting it, so we have had to increase the team to 10 pairs.
Hand in hand with that is what I mentioned before about the CLCs, the community learning centres across the province. Here there is the advantage with the video-conferencing network to help us implement phase two, which is actual access to culture for the regions. Professional artists from Montreal teach over the video-conferencing network how to design, how to stage manage, how to direct, how to do voice, how to dance, et cetera.
The bottom line here is the dollars-and-cents factor. It costs money to set up these video conferences, an average of $500 a conference per hour. Where is that money coming from? The communities do not have it, and certainly neither do we, as the artists at QDF. We need some mechanism to facilitate this.
The CLC, the video-conferencing network is increasing — there are 28 anglophone schools now, and I understand they are adding more. That network will be so important because it has already changed the face of long-distance learning, and long-distance learning includes arts, culture and heritage. Phase two needs money.
Senator Seidman: Thank you very much. Might we continue to Mr. Childs?
Mr. Childs: Our focus needs to be broader in working with the ministry and in trying to represent the artists. Across the board, initiatives are being worked on in the specific disciplines. We need work with our musicians to get them into the schools. We have begun discussions to try to bring together musicians across the land, to organize and build capacity among the musicians, as well as to link with the schools and school boards. That is our role in building bridges. Ms. Schubert mentioned, on capacity of the organizations themselves, that it is a question of how many projects we can undertake at any given time.
Mr. Duncan: Something that I did not mention before and that I need to highlight is that the same ministry that considers the status of women is not very supportive of our community newspapers because their definition means not for profit. A program exists within the communication ministry but makes us inaccessible. We do have some not-for-profit newspapers. The Gaspé Spec is one of those, which has a board of directors, as well as the Townships Sun. However, by mere definition, here is another area where we are in no man's land. We look for federal support because sometimes there is that lack of support.
We need to ensure that controlled circulation papers can access important programs because there is certainly no access to that provincial program here for them. We want to see our media continue to serve these communities. We cannot lose more papers and cannot have the editorial content suffer because of lack of resources. It is not just Quebec that is dealing with some of this. However, we are magnified on this. You cannot have the information about the community, and that reflects the community, with these huge geographic areas to cover with one person there. There has to be a better way, through tweaking of current programs in particular.
Mr. Agombar: I think your question was directed toward specific suggestions, of which I am sure we could all give a plethora. Many of the answers were quite general. It comes back to your initial point about the key words that have been coming up throughout the week. Identity and survival are key issues that have been coming up this week in your own experiences. As a Maritimer, I know that it is difficult to bail and row at the same time. I think many of the answers came from that theme. Programs exist, but many of these organizations are really punching above their weight in doing an inordinate amount of work accomplishing an inordinate amount of effect, with minimal means. Many of the answers fell under your initial points about identity and survival being key issues for us.
Senator Seidman: Yes, and I do thank you very much for that.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Thank you, Madam Chair. I will have two completely different questions. The first is this. I see that culture and the arts are extremely important to you; I was wondering whether that is typical of anglophones who are the most cultured. In your view, how important are culture and the arts in Quebec’s English-speaking communities? And I mean as compared with sports or any other area.
Ms. Needles: I can answer that, Madam. Statistics Canada has figures on that. Two years ago, the value of arts and culture as a share of the GDP ranked third in Quebec and fourth in Canada. Sports ranked ninth in Quebec and twelfth in Canada. Agriculture and forestry were the first two sectors, but arts and culture came third and fourth on the list. That is one thing.
According to Richard Florida and Jane Jacobs, a strong urban centre is one that revolves around arts and culture. Business activity and investment flourish in cities that are rich in arts, culture and heritage.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Thank you very much. My last question will be brief but important. I would like each of you to give us an example of an arts and culture success story in your respective areas — one or more examples that you have in mind.
Ms. Moser: I can go first. I can tell you that the community of English-language writers has made tremendous contributions to arts and culture in Canada, and around the world, for that matter. Take Yann Martel, who is from Montreal; Miguel Syjuco, who lives in Montreal and has just published Illustrado, which won the Man Asian prize. There is Rawi Hage, an author of Lebanese descent who speaks Arabic and French at home, but who writes in English and won the IMPAC Dublin award. Those are just three examples of Canadians, of English-speaking Quebeckers, who have had international success. And there are many others.
Ms. Needles: I can tell you, for example, how many English-language companies — we had 23 in 1995 — are now members of the QDF; there are 65. And I know that more than 80 or 90 English-language companies in all — not all of them are QDF members — are very strong, very important, and contribute significantly to the cultural scene here, in Montreal, and in Quebec.
I can also mention, as Patrick did earlier, the launch we held for our theatre schedule. We were expecting somewhere around 50 people, and we got 175. They sat on the floor, on cushions, in the hallway; it was incredible. That is a success story.
We are really a very strong community, and I am extremely proud.
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Mr. Childs: I have two examples; one is specific: We launched a mentorship program with fine artists, where we did an exchange. A jury of fine artists picked an artist to go to the community. The community chosen was the Eastern Townships. That senior artist went from Montreal to spend three months in the Eastern Townships working on their own art, giving workshops and working with local artists. The artists exchanged ideas, work and ways of working. The program calls for a second phase, which we are in now, where a local artist was chosen from that region to come and spend three months in Montreal. The community is engaging with that individual to share their work, work experience and presentation.
This made a huge impact in the Eastern Townships. It gave a great focus to a large number of fine artists who came together to work and share ideas. They knew of each other but had never really had an opportunity to exchange ideas about art and the creation of art. A similar situation is happening here in Montreal with the individual from the region. This is an opportunity and something that ELAN hopes to expand to perhaps a musician in another region as a mentorship program. That is the specific example.
The general example is that ELAN, as an organization, has evolved to the strength that it is today in five short years, which is an indication of the need in the community and also demonstrates the commitment of the community to make and support itself.
Mr. Duncan: On our end, a number of years ago, we set up a better recognition program, a sort of prize for weekly newspapers — our version of the Academy Awards for Quebec’s English-language weekly newspapers.
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This provides a sense of community for our papers and better newspaper competition.
That is one of our most successful programs, one that fosters a true sense of community.
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It recognizes excellence in journalism too.
A second thing, and this is fairly recent: we do a lot of work with the Association de la presse autochtone and more and more with the radio alliance, Working Titles, the minority media alliance, IMM.
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You will, more than likely, hear of this, and I am sure my colleagues at l’Association de la presse francophone, APF, and l’Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada, ARC, will talk to you too. We will finally provide long overdue statistics on the impact of official language minority media, community media, for pan-Canada. We are excited about this. This will be coming soon. We have learned that working together can be very positive, so those are success stories.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Thank you very much.
The Chair: I am going to add five more minutes. We have already gone over the allotted 10 minutes, but we need to hear from everyone, and two other senators have questions. We have Senator De Bané, and the last question will be from Senator Fraser.
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Senator De Bané: Among successes, you could have mentioned the three books from Quebec-based writers that appeared in The New York Times book review of June 13.
To the Quebec Drama Federation, you tell us that companies continue to create and produce their shows from living rooms and basements, that there is no office space or creation space, that performance space has to be booked years in advance and that Emploi-Québec does not realize the magnitude of anglophone artists.
I am happy that you quoted Jane Jacobs and Richard Florida on the importance of culture. However, then you said something that we do not reflect upon enough in Ottawa, namely, that our GDP receives a contribution of $84 million per annum from arts and culture, and that represents more than agriculture, mining, fisheries and forestry combined.
You may not be aware that, in the Senate, we have committees on forestry, fisheries, transportation, et cetera, but we do not have a committee, as Mr. Florida and Ms. Jacobs mentioned, on culture.
It so happens that on the occasion of studying official languages in minority situations, we deal with your different groups — writers, dramatists, a network of artists and so forth — and obviously you have contacts in the artist and writer communities, and so on, across the land. You should consider recommending to members of Parliament and senators the establishment of a parliamentary committee in the House of Commons and in the Senate on culture, since this is absent.
We have a good number of parliamentary committees that deal with important issues, but culture is not one of them. Recently, we had the occasion to study the performance of CBC, or Société Radio-Canada, but it was through another committee that was studying national finance. This is the most important cultural institution in this country, but we had to study it through a committee that deals essentially with finances. In view of the importance of culture, as you say, we should have a committee on culture.
With respect to the issue that the writers brought up about the corresponding francophone body in Ontario having received $25,000, this is something we will have to study. If you have proceeded with that request, why did you not receive the same?
Ms. Schubert: We have not asked. I do not want to mislead you. We have asked for and received one grant of $25,000.
Senator De Bané: Finally, Mr. Childs, you tell us that your major project called state of the arts will bring together the partners; involve performing arts, music, theatre, dance, et cetera; and be a major event that will be a showcase for the whole country. Is that just a dream, or are you working on it?
Mr. Childs: We are working on it. Absolutely, it will happen.
Senator De Bané: Can you tell us a few words about it? It is supposed to be a major event.
Mr. Childs: Yes, it is a major event. We have already begun discussions with the different departments and federal partners that we are bringing together. We have already had two meetings with the regional and national offices and have agreed on a list of federal departments that can assist us in bringing forward the partnership and in arriving at agreements and the support of the English arts community. That process is under way. A group of people have been brought together for the preliminary discussion of the actual production itself, the evening, so we are well under way. We have applications in for financial support for the project. We have had positive feedback from the office that the project is being seen in a favourable light, and there is every expectation that we should be able to receive funding for it. We are very encouraged, and it is indeed going to happen.
Ms. Needles: I just want to add something briefly, Senator De Bané. The Canadian Conference of the Arts would be delighted to hear your request, because that is something they have been wanting for years.
Senator De Bané: Thank you.
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Senator Fraser: In terms of successes, Senator Seidman is probably aware, but I do not know whether the rest of the colleagues here are aware of another field in which English Montreal artists have been wildly internationally successful in recent years, and that is rock music. I will not venture down the sticky path of naming the bands. However, this is one more piece of evidence that the young people here are also creative and doing things and succeeding.
My question, however, was of course about newspapers and what we can do to help. This goes back to Senator Seidman's point. One of the things I have been "noodling" around in my mind is a result of this downward spiral. You have fewer revenues, so you have fewer journalists and less coverage, which means fewer readers, fewer ads, less revenue, and down we go.
Is there room for some form of incentive, maybe refundable tax credits or something similar, for the hiring of journalists; and if you had more journalists, would you have the space to print what they produced?
Mr. Bakoyannis: One of the biggest costs a newspaper has is printing and distribution, not payroll. If we had more stories, we would need more space. Space without advertising just will not work. It would help, but it would not be the answer to the problem. I think the answer to the problem lies in the few simple measures that we talked about before that would go a long way to help the newspaper industry.
First, ensure the federal and provincial governments only advertise in newspapers that are accredited, members of respected associations. Second, change the rules to allow free circulation papers to access money in these programs, such as the Canada Periodical Fund. Third, of course, the federal government would have to look at their spending habits in how they go about advertising their needs. A good example was what Mr. Duncan showed you this morning, the ad that went to only one newspaper and no other newspaper across Quebec. We have not really looked into this. We have made a few phone calls, but we have not heard from everyone. We think that no one else has this ad, other than the daily paper in Montreal. That is a good example of what is occurring.
Those measures are priorities. Of course, your suggestion would be wildly welcome in our industry. We would not say no to it, definitely.
Mr. Duncan: We do worry about erosion of the quality of the content because content is still king. Content drives everything, including the online material. Where does CBC get their material when they do not have someone in the regions? They get it from the local source.
Yes, absolutely we would be interested, because we are still footing the bill for the new generation. If you take 90 per cent of that away, you do not have anything on the net; there is nothing to aggregate anymore.
Mr. Goddard: Senator Fraser, to address your comment about the emerging generation of music in Montreal, I want to go back to the question of performance venues. The funding that is available to performance venues of all types, whether they are music venues, dance venues, theatre venues or, ideally, venues that can support all three of these arts, is very limited. There are very few spaces available to musicians, dancers and theatre artists for performance.
The Chair: I would like to tell all of you that this meeting has been very much appreciated by the whole committee. We are learning so much, as we did all week. I would like to assure you that the documentation that you have given the clerk and that you will be sending will be in our hands. We will all have to read it before our next committee meeting.
Our work is far from over because when we return to Ottawa, we still have to meet with a few other witnesses about the English-speaking community in Quebec. After that, the committee will prepare a report and hopefully submit it with recommendations, asking for an answer from the government, if everything goes well, by the end of November. This being said, if you have anything else to send to us that you forgot to tell us, please feel free to send it to the clerk. I thank you all very much for being here today.
(The committee adjourned.)