Proceedings of the Standing Committee on
Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration
Issue No. 18 - Evidence - February 15, 2018
OTTAWA, Thursday, February 15, 2018
The Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration met this day at 8:30 a.m., in public and in camera, pursuant to rule 12-7(1), for consideration of financial and administrative matters.
Senator Larry W. Campbell (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Good morning, and welcome to this meeting of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration. My name is Larry Campbell, and I’m a senator from British Columbia.
Welcome, all.
First on the agenda is the adoption of minutes of proceedings of February 1, 2018. Has everybody had an opportunity to review them? Are there any questions about them?
Could I have a motion, please? Senator Wells moves.
All those in favour? Opposed?
Carried.
Item No. 2 was a report from Senator Harder. This is just a routine report on a trip he was on. Unfortunately, he is unavailable this morning, so we will put this to the next meeting of the committee.
The report from the Audit Subcommittee — quarterly financial report. That was to be Senator Batters. We’ll push this off. I’m sure she’s on her way here. Traffic was hectic this morning, so we’ll move that down.
Next is the report from the Subcommittee on Committee Budgets.
[Translation]
Senator Verner: Honourable senators, I have the honour to present the seventeenth report of the Subcommittee on Committee Budgets, which includes the recommended allocations for a committee budget.
[English]
Before reviewing this particular budget request, I want to give you a general overview of committee activities for this fiscal year.
[Translation]
The total amount allocated in the 2017-18 budget was $2.382 million. We set aside $500,000 for witness expenses in order to cover their travel to Ottawa, which leaves $1.882 million for committee budgets. To date, the subcommittee has recommended the release of $1,698,825 for committee activities.
[English]
In this fiscal year to date, the subcommittee has approved 19 budget requests that included funds for committee travel. I’m pleased to report that, of the 19 requests, 15 of those committee trips have been completed or are currently under way. The subcommittee met earlier this week to meet with the chair and deputy chair of the Aboriginal Peoples Committee.
[Translation]
They presented a budget request covering proposed expenditures of $216,978 to conduct a fact-finding mission and public hearings in Western Canada.
[English]
This is in relation to their study on the new relationship between Canada and First Nations, Inuit and Metis peoples, and includes funds for eight senators to travel. The budget also includes a request for approval for a sole source charter plane proven necessary because of the remoteness of some Aboriginal communities that are to be visited by the committee.
[Translation]
After reviewing the information provided, the subcommittee recommends that the amount of $216,978 be authorized today for this mission.
With the $1.882 million set aside, we have authorized the release of a total of $1,906,803 to date. I would point out that the committees have in fact spent $555,000 of the total amount released for 14 committee trips recorded to date.
According to our estimates, approximately $1 million in uncommitted funds is available for travel by March 31.
Unless there are any questions, I recommend the adoption of the report.
[English]
The Chair: Are there any questions first of all?
All those in favour? Opposed? Carried.
Next is the report on the Subcommittee on Human Resources.
Senator McCoy: Thank you very much. I’ll be brief.
You probably all got the memo yesterday: We’ve launched the review and renewal of the Senate’s harassment in the workplace policy. It will roll out in various stages, but the first stage is procurement. We agreed to hire an independent expert consultant to have us help us conduct the review.
In addition to that, we will be putting on retainer another arm’s-length external expert to handle any complaints of harassment that arise between now and when we have a new policy in place, and that person will be on call. We don’t anticipate — of course, you never do anticipate — that we will need that person’s services. At the moment, there are no outstanding claims in the Senate, and we would hope that continues. But in the event that some do arise before our new policy is in place, we felt it was important to have an arm’s-length person to manage that process as well.
I’m happy to answer any questions.
The Chair: We have a list started.
Senator Saint-Germain: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I do not believe that we have the needed information to take a decision. Is there an analysis? What is the rationale? What is the cost? I’m not able to take a decision today unless we receive this information.
Senator McCoy: The request for proposal is being drafted now, and I don’t have a cost that I can share with you. I don’t know; bids have not come in.
The Chair: I note that this report is information only and that there is going to be much more in-depth information forthcoming.
Senator Mitchell: Thanks, Senator McCoy, for the work of your group. This is obviously extremely important. I have talked to several people about this, and I want to put it on the record officially: We have an excellent committee of senators, but often involved in this kind of an issue are staff — hopefully never again, but certainly administration staff and senators’ offices, potentially.
How will we formalize their involvement in this review process so that the very imbalance it is addressing in the workplace isn’t reflected in the committee doing the analysis?
Senator McCoy: Yes. That will be a key design feature, and as I said in the memo that was sent around that the statement of work and the request for proposals will make it clear that we will be asking all bidders to outline their proposed methodology. As a part of that methodology, we will insist they create multiple opportunities for staff, both in senators’ offices and in Senate administration, to participate in the review and renewal process. That’s so we have ways of building a Senate-wide consensus. We hope to build staff into that, in addition to senators.
Senator Mitchell: I think it’s obvious, but it is a place where everybody is busy — it’s intense. A special effort has to make sure all staff, both Senate office staff and administration, are fully informed of this interim process you are proposing to set up, which I think is excellent, where you are proposing to hire a person who would be “a safe place for people to go.” It’s very important that it be widely advertised or educated, as it were, because it’s easy for that kind of thing to fall by the wayside in people’s minds in the intensity of the day-to-day.
Senator McCoy: I agree.
[Translation]
Senator Forest: I think this is an extremely important issue and we all take it very seriously. Given the current context, when we look at what is happening with one of our colleagues, who is working on an initiative — as well-intentioned as it may be — there is the perception, on the outside, that we in the Senate are not addressing this issue. That is unfortunate, and I have been asked about it. I believe that the committee’s work is very important. However, we should take a look at what has been done and why we have failed, if that is the case, to create a safe space or environment that fully guarantees that our staff and anyone who may be concerned will trust the process. I have learned from experience that we have to get this right. We are living in a world of perceptions. This is an important issue, but we must take the time to give careful consideration to this matter and to make the right decisions.
I believe that the Subcommittee on Human Resources should bring forward a summary that highlights the strengths and weaknesses of the current system in order for us to determine what measures we can implement at this time. I believe that we should obtain this information from the Subcommittee on Human Resources and consider it. Is an external resource the best resource or the best solution? I am not in a position to weigh in on this.
[English]
Senator Tannas: I’m pleased to work with Senator McCoy on the committee. Yes, this is for information, but we are also advising that we’re charting this course, and that it will involve coming back here and asking for permission. We don’t want you to be surprised.
There are two elements about which we will have to come back, once we are further along. One is obviously the consultant who will help chart the review and the renewal of the harassment policy.
We have heard from multiple senators, including leadership, that a consultant rather than senators trying to develop this in a vacuum is important. There are people with expertise in this area. We need to find them, and they can help us. We all know what we want out of the renewal and review, but we need some help to get there.
So it shouldn’t be a surprise when Senator McCoy comes back to this committee with a formal RFP, a budget and so on to ask for permission. We are shelling the beach on that.
Second, with respect to the interim process, it is very similar. There has been some activity around this, and the committee wants to come back with a recommendation about an interim process. That is something that was signalled in Senator McCoy’s memo to everybody. It’s one we want to follow up on quickly, because something could happen quickly. If we’re going to deviate from the current policy, which has a process already, then we will need this committee’s approval at a minimum for some sort of interim process. We will work over the next few weeks to do that and come back with a plan on each of these two items.
Senator Batters: I just want to comment about the potential interim process while the plan is being revised. I wanted to remind everyone about the significant measures the Senate already has in place — some may have been mentioned — to deal with harassment complaints. The process now exists through the human resources department, the Conflict of Interest Committee, the Senate Ethics Officer and there are sometimes processes with the Senate whips.
I also note that the Senate’s Ethics and Conflict of Interest Code is one of toughest anywhere, and we are proud of that. That particular rigorous and diligent process was recently used for a serious matter involving former Senator Don Meredith, who resigned from the Senate as a result of that. Any different process would need to be considered fully in light of all of this, through our Internal Economy process.
We always want to ensure we have the best interests of all of our employees in mind. That’s why I and our steering committee wanted to be sure in light of recent events that our Senate’s comprehensive harassment policy and procedures were provided to all of our Senate employees, because we have a significant process in place already. We have had it since 2009, and we’re revising it. So we’ll go from there. Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Batters. That’s important, because as we are going through this process, we don’t recognize enough of what actually has been done in the process. While the policy of 2009 needs updating, it is in place. It’s not like there is not something going on. That’s important.
On that note, Senator Batters, we’ll turn to you for the report of the Audit Subcommittee on the quarterly financial report.
Senator Batters: Thank you very much. I was weather-delayed.
Senators, this is on behalf of Senator Moncion. She is the chair of the Audit Subcommittee, and I’m the deputy chair. As deputy chair of the Audit Subcommittee, I have the pleasure to table for your information the Senate quarterly financial report for the second quarter of 2017-18, the period ending September 30, 2017.
The committee was diligent in reviewing the report, and several questions were asked of the Finance team that were answered to our satisfaction.
As a reminder, this report is issued on a quarterly basis and follows the proposed format from the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat. It is prepared by the Finance and Procurement Directorate, and it is not audited. The objective of this report is to provide continuous information about the usage of the Senate authorities received through the Main Estimates. Consistent with the prior year, the forecast analysis is performed as of September 30 and will also be done for the third quarter, ending December 31, which will be presented to this committee in March 2018.
As a summary, the Senate budgetary authority for 2017-18 is $103.9 million. The actual expenditures for the second quarter represent $20 million, for a total year to date of $38.8 million. Overall, based on best available information at the time the report was prepared, the Senate is forecasting to spend $94.8 million for 2017-18. A surplus of $7.6 million comes from senators’ budgets for remuneration of travel, telecommunication and office expenses, since some Senate seats were not filled. The budgets approved in the Main Estimates were based on an average of 103 senators; however, the actual spending for the first six months of the fiscal year was for an average of 98 senators. The balance of the surplus is attributable to committees and the administration budgets.
I will now provide the committee with an overview of significant changes to budgetary expenditures. The actual expenditures for the second quarter have increased $3 million, or 18 per cent, in comparison to the same period last year, for a total of approximately $20 million. The year-to-date amount is $38.8 million, an increase of $4.8 million compared to last year.
On page 7 of the report, we explained the most significant changes for the following four categories of expenditures. The first category, personnel, increased by $4.2 million due to a larger number of seated senators, from 86 to 98, which had a direct impact on senators’ indemnity payments and salaries. Furthermore, of that $4.2 million, an overall increase of $1.1 million in the Senate administration is attributable to the now-filled positions that were vacant in the same period of the previous fiscal year.
The second category, transportation and communications, increased by $0.5 million due to greater number of senators. It can also be explained by the purchase of broadcasting and multimedia equipment to set up a backup in-room digital recording system.
The third category, acquisition of machinery and equipment, increased by $0.1 million. During the second quarter of 2017-18, a number of Surface Pro and iPad Pro devices were purchased, following a decision by CIBA to have all IT hardware costs for senators charged to the central budget.
The last category, “Information and Publications,” increased by $40,000. The increase is mainly due to the new advertising costs incurred by the Communications Directorate for the use of modern communications techniques like Twitter, Facebook and the purchase of brochures to show the Senate at work. Consistent with past practice, our quarterly report lists the key risks and uncertainties which must be monitored and mitigated. We continue to monitor the works of Senate modernization, the audit subcommittee, the new senators’ office management policy and the human resources review, to only name a few.
In conclusion, I would like to inform you that by the end of month, very soon here, we will be tabling the quarterly report for the third quarter that was just reviewed by the subcommittee on February 13. If there are any questions, I will be pleased to answer them.
[Translation]
Senator Forest: Thank you for the report. I have two questions. First, with respect to the management of risks and uncertainties, which is very interesting, one of the elements identified was Senate modernization, which could lead to an increase in funding requirements. I am trying to understand why that would be the case. What factors did your committee consider in reaching that conclusion?
Pascale Legault, Chief Corporate Services Officer and Clerk of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration, Senate of Canada: In order to determine what the financial impact will be, we will require more information. However, when there is uncertainty, there is more risk, for example, if there is a change in the number of committee members travelling. The extent of the modernization is not yet known. However, depending on the decisions made, there could be additional expenses.
Senator Forest: Perfect. We have seen that talent management is a factor, because, in my opinion, the significant turnover in senior management probably represents the greatest risk. It is at the end, but in terms of vision and risk management, I consider talent management to be fairly important.
My second question is the following: Twice bitten, twice shy, as the saying goes. Thus, will the proposed change in the pay system be implemented at a later date?
[English]
Senator Batters: There is another item about that coming up.
[Translation]
Senator Carignan: I would like to comment on Senator Forest’s question about the turnover rate. I am a member of the audit committee, where I asked the same question. We do not have the tools at this time to answer this question. Even though it is mentioned in the report, the rate may not be that high; we do not know. We will be taking this parameter into account in the coming months because it is important.
Senator Forest: I was actually referring to our senior managers. We have seen a significant turnover in senior management and human resources at the Senate. That is who I had in mind when I asked the question.
[English]
The Chair: Any questions? Thank you very much.
Do we have any other matters in public business?
We’ll move in camera, then.
(The committee continued in camera.)