Journals of the Senate
45 Elizabeth II, A.D. 1996, Canada
Journals of the Senate
Issue 23
Wednesday, May 29, 1996
1:30 p.m.
The Honourable Gildas L. Molgat, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams Andreychuk Angus Atkins Austin Bacon Beaudoin Berntson Bolduc Bonnell
Bosa Bryden Buchanan Carney Carstairs Charbonneau Cochrane Cogger Cohen Comeau
Cools Corbin Davey De Bané DeWare Di Nino Doody Doyle Fairbairn Forest
Forrestall Gauthier Ghitter Gigantès Grafstein Graham Haidasz Hébert
Hervieux-Payette Jessiman Johnson Kelleher Kelly Kenny Keon Kinsella Kirby
Landry Lavoie-Roux LeBreton Lewis Losier-Cool Lynch-Staunton
MacDonald (Halifax) MacEachen Marchand Milne Molgat Murray Nolin Oliver
Pearson Perrault Petten Phillips Pitfield Poulin Prud'homme Riel Rivest Roberge
Robertson Rompkey Rossiter Roux St. Germain Simard Sparrow Spivak Stanbury
Stewart Stollery Taylor Tkachuk Watt Wood
PRAYERS.
The Honourable the Speaker informed the Senate that a communication had been received from the Secretary to the Governor General.
The communication was then read by the Honourable the Speaker as follows:
RIDEAU HALL
May 29, 1996
Mr. Speaker,
I have the honour to inform you that the Right Honourable Roméo LeBlanc, Governor General of Canada, will proceed to the Senate Chamber today, the 29th day of May, 1996, at 3:30 p.m., for the purpose of giving Royal Assent to certain Bills.
Yours sincerely,
Judith A. LaRocque
Secretary to the Governor General.
The Speaker of the Senate
Ottawa
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Government Notices of Motions
With leave of the Senate,The Honourable Senator Graham moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Perrault, P.C.:
That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, May 30, 1996, at 9:00 a.m.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Notices of Motions
With leave of the Senate,The Honourable Senator Kenny moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stewart:
That the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration have power to sit while the Senate is sitting tomorrow, May 30, 1996, and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
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A Point of Order was raised concerning recognition of Senators during Question Period.
Debate.
SPEAKER'S RULING
Honourable senators, under rule 18(3), I would indicate that I have heard sufficient argument on the subject. I am now prepared to rule on the point raised by Senator Phillips.
At the outset, I would thank the Honourable Senator Phillips for having raised the matter and those senators who have contributed to the discussion.
I refer honourable senators to rule 33(1) which states:
When two or more Senators rise to speak at the same time, the Speaker shall call upon the Senator who, in the Speaker's opinion, first rose.
There is no specific rule regarding Question Period. This rule relates to speeches, but I have been following that rule for Question Period. The problem arises because, frequently, a number of senators rise, and those who are seated the front benches have no idea who has risen in the back benches. From my view of the chamber, it is apparent.
Insofar as seniority is concerned, I regret that I cannot show any preference to Senator Phillips. The rule is clear that my decision must be based on which senator, in my opinion, rose first.
Whether various caucuses prepare lists of speakers or questioners is not within my domain. I recommend that matter be raised within caucus; it is not a matter for the chair. If I do receive a list, I follow it to the extent that it applies to the party which has submitted the list, not to the extent that I apply it to the Senate as a whole, including the independent senators. As a matter of fact, I recognized Senator Prud'homme today when he rose. I shall attempt to continue to recognize senators as they rise.
The point made by Senator Murray, however, is germane. If senators would restrict themselves to questions and not embark on speeches and argumentative debate, senators would have an opportunity to ask more questions during the 30-minute Question Period.
I thank the Honourable Senator Phillips.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Motions
The Honourable Senator Graham moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Perrault, P.C.:
That, pursuant to the provisions of Rule 39 and in relation to Bill C-28, an Act respecting certain agreements concerning the redevelopment and operation of Terminals 1 and 2 at Lester B. Pearson International Airport, not more than six further hours of debate be allotted to the consideration of the said Bill at second reading stage;
That, when the debate comes to an end or when the time provided for the debate has expired, as the case may be, the Speaker shall interrupt, if required, any proceeding then before the Senate and put forthwith and successively every question necessary to dispose of the second reading stage of the said Bill; and
That any recorded vote on the said question or questions shall be taken in accordance with the provisions of Rule 39(4).
After debate,
A Point of Order was raised as to the acceptability of the motion.
Debate.
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Pursuant to Rule 135(8), the proceedings were interrupted to resume after Royal Assent.
ROYAL ASSENT
The Senate adjourned during pleasure to await the arrival of His Excellency the Governor General.
After awhile, His Excellency the Governor General, having come and being seated on the Throne-
The Honourable the Speaker commanded the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod to proceed to the House of Commons and acquaint that House that:-
"It is the pleasure of His Excellency the Governor General that they attend him immediately in the Senate Chamber."
The House of Commons being come,
One of the Clerks at the Table read the titles of the Bills to be assented to as follows:
An Act to amend, enact and repeal certain laws relating to financial institutions (Bill C-15, Chapter 6, 1996)
An Act to amend the Contraventions Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts (Bill C-16, Chapter 7, 1996)
An Act to establish the Department of Health and to amend and repeal certain Acts (Bill C-18, Chapter 8, 1996)
An Act respecting the Law Commission of Canada (Bill C-9, Chapter 9, 1996)
An Act to continue the National Transportation Agency as the Canadian Transportation Agency, to consolidate and revise the National Transportation Act, 1987 and the Railway Act and to amend or repeal other Acts as a consequence (Bill C-14, Chapter 10, 1996)
An Act to establish the Department of Human Resources Development and to amend and repeal certain related Acts (Bill C-11, Chapter 11, 1996)
An Act to amend the Canada Labour Code (nuclear undertak ings) and to make a related amendment to another Act (Bill C-3, Chapter 12, 1996)
An Act establishing the Canadian Association of Former Parliamentarians (Bill C-275, Chapter 13, 1996).
To these Bills Royal Assent was pronounced by the Clerk Assistant of the Senate in the following words:-
"In Her Majesty's name, His Excellency the Governor General doth assent to these Bills."
3:42 p.m.
The Commons withdrew.
After which His Excellency the Governor General was pleased to retire.
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At 3:45 p.m. the sitting was adjourned during pleasure to resume at the call of the bell at approximately 4:15 p.m.
The sitting resumed.
Motions
The Senate resumed debate on the Point of Order as to the acceptability of the motion of the Honourable Senator Graham concerning Bill C-28.
Debate.
SPEAKER'S RULING
Honourable senators, if no other senator wishes to speak, I am prepared to rule at this point.
I would thank all honourable senators who participated in the debate.
I will deal first with the question which is not really part of the point of order but which was raised by Honourable Senator Lynch-Staunton regarding timing.
I am bound by the rules. I would refer honourable senators to page 46, rule 40, which states:
(1) When an Order of the Day for a motion to allocate time for the consideration of any item of government business is called:
(b) the Speaker shall interrupt any proceeding then before the Senate and put every question necessary to dispose of the motion not later than two and one half hours after the order is called;...
Under that rule, I believe I have no alternative except, two and a half hours after the calling of the order, to call for the vote. I see no leeway for myself in that matter. Therefore, time spent on a point of order is unfortunately within that time period.
I have asked the Table how much time we have spent so far, and I have been informed that it is 45 minutes. I will make my ruling short so that I will not use any more time than is necessary from the allotted time.
Senator Kinsella has raised a point of order in which he questions the procedural acceptability of the motion. He has based it on a quotation from Erskine May, at page 409:
A motion for the allocation of time to a bill...sets out in detail some or all of the provisions which are to be made for further proceedings on the bill.
It is on that basis that Senator Kinsella feels that Senator Graham's bill does not do this.
Honourable senators, I have looked at the citation. I must draw to your attention our own rule 39(3) which states in part:
...no motion moved pursuant this rule shall allocate time to more than one stage of consideration of any item of government business.
We are in a situation where our rules are specific. When our rules are not specific or when there is nothing in our rules, then we go to other sources. In this case, our rules are specific. There is no need to go to other sources. Insofar as this point of order is concerned, I find that the motion is in order.
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Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Graham, seconded by the Honourable Senator Perrault, P.C.:
That, pursuant to the provisions of Rule 39 and in relation to Bill C-28, an Act respecting certain agreements concerning the redevelopment and operation of Terminals 1 and 2 at Lester B. Pearson International Airport, not more than six further hours of debate be allotted to the consideration of the said bill at second reading stage;
That, when the debate comes to an end or when the time provided for the debate has expired, as the case may be, the Speaker shall interrupt, if required, any proceeding then before the Senate and put forthwith and successively every question necessary to dispose of the second reading stage of the said bill; and
That any recorded vote on the said question or questions shall be taken in accordance with the provisions of Rule 39(4).
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following division:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Adams Austin Bacon Bonnell Bosa Bryden Carstairs Cools Corbin Davey De Bané Fairbairn Forest Gauthier Gigantès Graham Haidasz Hébert Hervieux-Payette Kenny Kirby Landry Lewis Losier-Cool MacEachen Marchand Milne Pearson Perrault Petten Pitfield Poulin Prud'homme Riel Rompkey Sparrow Stanbury Stewart Stollery Taylor Watt Wood-42
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Atkins Beaudoin Berntson Charbonneau Cochrane Cogger Cohen Comeau DeWare Di Nino Doody Doyle Forrestall Ghitter Jessiman Johnson Kelleher Kinsella Lavoie-Roux LeBreton Lynch-Staunton MacDonald (Halifax) Murray Nolin Oliver Phillips Rivest Roberge Robertson Rossiter St. Germain Simard Spivak Tkachuk-34
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Nil
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Ordered, That all remaining Orders be postponed until the next sitting.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Reports of the Canada Ports Corporation - Halifax Port Corporation, Montréal Port Corporation, Prince Rupert Port Corporation, Port of Québec Corporation, Saint John Port Corporation, St. John's Port Corporation and Vancouver Port Corporation, including their accounts and financial statements certified by the auditors, for the year ended December 31, 1995, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 150(1).-Sessional Paper No. 2/35-176.
Communiques issued by the Interim Committee of the International Monetary Fund, dated April 22, 1996, and by the Development Committee of the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development and the International Monetary Fund, dated April 23, 1996, pursuant to the Act to amend the Bretton Woods and Related Agreements Act, S.C. 1991, c. 21, s. 14.-Sessional Paper No. 2/35/177.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Graham moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Perrault, P.C.:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
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Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs
The names of the Honourable Senators Rompkey and Lewis substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Lewis and Rompkey (May 29).