Journals of the Senate
48 Elizabeth II, A.D. 1999, Canada
Journals of the Senate
2nd Session, 36th Parliament
Issue 18
Wednesday, December 8, 1999
1:30 p.m.
The Honourable Gildas L. Molgat, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Bacon, Beaudoin, Berntson, Bolduc, Boudreau, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carney, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Cohen, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Ghitter, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Grimard, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Perrault, Perry (Poirier), Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Rivest, Robertson, Robichaud , (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, Ruck, St. Germain, Simard, Sparrow, Spivak, Stollery, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Wilson
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Bacon, Beaudoin, Berntson, Bolduc, Boudreau, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carney, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Cohen, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Ghitter, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Grimard, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Perrault, Perry (Poirier), Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Rivest, Robertson, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, Ruck, St. Germain, Simard, Sparrow, Spivak, Stollery, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Wilson
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C. (L'Acadie-Acadia) presented the following:WEDNESDAY, December 8, 1999
The Standing Joint Committee on the Library of Parliament has the honour to present its
FIRST REPORT
Your Committee recommends that it be authorized to assist the Speaker of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Commons in directing and controlling the Library of Parliament; and that it be authorized to make recommendations to the Speaker of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Commons regarding the governance of the Library and the proper expenditure of moneys voted by Parliament for the purchase of books, maps or other articles to be deposited therein.Your Committee recommends that its quorum be fixed at seven (7) members, provided that both Houses are represented whenever a vote, resolution or other decision is taken, and that the Joint Chairs be authorized to hold meetings to receive evidence and authorize printing thereof so long as four (4) members are present, provided that both Houses are represented.
Your Committee further recommends to the Senate that it be empowered to sit during sittings of the Senate.
A copy of the relevant Minutes of Proceedings (Meeting No. 1) is tabled.
Respectfully submitted,
LOUIS J. ROBICHAUD
Joint-Chair
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C. (L'Acadie-Acadia) moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Gauthier, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Fairbairn, P.C., tabled the following (Sessional Paper No. 2/36-191S):
WEDNESDAY, December 8, 1999
The Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry has the honour to table its
FIRST REPORT
Your Committee, which was authorized by the Senate to incur expenses for the purpose of its examination and consideration of such legislation and other matters as were referred to it, reports, pursuant to Rule 104, that the expenses of the Committee during the First Session of the Thirty-sixth Parliament were as follows:A. With respect to its special study on the future of agriculture in Canada:
|
Professional and Other Services |
$ 12,137.52 |
|
Transportation and Communications |
92,943.83 |
|
Witness Expenses |
5,846.99 |
|
Other |
500.00 |
|
Total |
$ 111,428.34 |
B. With respect to a special study of the Subcommittee on the Boreal Forest to examine and report on the state of the boreal forest:
|
Professional and Other Services |
$ 54,137.80 |
|
Transportation and Communications |
80,474.46 |
|
Witness Expenses |
12,091.31 |
|
Other |
2,482.57 |
|
Total |
$ 149,186.14 |
In the course of the First Session of the Thirty-sixth Parliament, your Committee held 61 meetings and heard 307 witnesses. Your Committee studied two Government bills: C-4 and C-26. On C-4, your Committee visited six Prairie cities to hear from over 100 witnesses. Your Committee recommended 5 amendments, which were subsequently sent to the House of Commons and to which agreement was given. In addition, your Committee conducted a fact-finding visit of the Prairie Provinces in relation to its study of the Boreal Forest.
Your Committee used its order of reference to study the present and future state of agriculture to study the effect international trade practices were having on Canadian farm income, due to distortions of world prices. A report was tabled on August 4, 1999 entitled The Way Ahead: Canadian Agriculture's Priorities in the Millennium Round which was structured as advice to the Minister of International Trade, in anticipation of the World Trade Organization Ministerial Meeting in Seattle.
In concordance with its order of reference to study the human and animal health safety issues related to the use of rBST in dairy herds, the Committee heard from 70 witnesses, over 12 meetings and produced a report entitled rBST and the Drug Approval Process which was tabled March 11, 1999.
Your Committee also created a Subcommittee on the Boreal Forest to examine and report on the state of the boreal forest, hearing a total of 74 witnesses over 27 meetings.
The Report of the Subcommittee on the Boreal Forest, Competing Realities: The Boreal Forest At Risk, presented its findings, together with 35 recommendations.
Respectfully submitted,
JOYCE FAIRBAIRN
Deputy Chair
The Honourable Senator Fairbairn, P.C., tabled the following (Sessional Paper No. 2/36-192S):WEDNESDAY, December 8, 1999
The Special Joint Committee on the Amendment to Term 17 of the Terms of Union of Newfoundland, which was empowered by the Senate to incur expenses for the purpose of its examination upon the proposed Amendment to Term 17 of the Terms of Union of Newfoundland with Canada concerning the Newfoundland school system, reports, pursuant to Rule 104, that the expenses incurred by the Committee during the First Session of the Thirty-sixth Parliament are as follows:
|
Professional and Other Services |
$ 1,466.25 |
|
Transportation and Communications |
14,512.58 |
|
Witness Expenses |
3,080.25 |
|
Other |
- |
|
Total |
$ 19,059.08 |
During the session, the Committee held 15 meetings and heard more than 39 hours of testimony, given by 62 witnesses.
The Committee heard from the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, the Provincial Minister of Education, the Provincial Leader of the Opposition, representatives of the churches and school boards affected and a variety of interest groups organized specifically to address this issue. In addition to academic experts and constitutional lawyers, the Committee also spoke with students of a variety of denominations from different school boards and from different communities, via video conferencing.
Respectfully submitted,
JOYCE FAIRBAIRN
The Honourable Senator Losier-Cool presented the following:WEDNESDAY, December 8, 1999
The Standing Joint Committee on Official Languages has the honour to present its
FIRST REPORT
Your Committee, which is authorized by section 88 of the Official Languages Act to review on a permanent basis the administration of the Act, any regulations and directives made under the Act and the reports of the Commissioner of Official Languages, the President of the Treasury Board and the Minister of Canadian Heritage, reports, pursuant to Rule 104, that the expenses incurred by the Committee during the First Session of the Thirty-sixth Parliament are as follows.
|
Professional Services |
$ - |
|
Transportation |
- |
|
Other, Miscellaneous |
1,218.72 |
|
Total |
$ 1,218.72 |
Your Committee recommends that its quorum be fixed at seven (7) members, provided that both Houses and the Opposition are represented whenever a vote, resolution or other decision is taken, and that the Joint Chairmen be authorized to hold meetings to receive evidence and authorize the printing thereof so long as four (4) members are present, provided that both Houses and the Opposition are represented.
During the session the Committee undertook an examination of Part VII of the Official Languages Act which commits the federal government to supporting and assisting the development of English and French linguistic minority communities in Canada. The Committee held 28 meetings and heard 47 witnesses.
A copy of the relevant Minutes of Proceedings (Meeting No.1) is tabled at the House of Commons.
Respectfully submitted,
ROSE-MARIE LOSIER-COOL
Joint Chair
The Honourable Senator Losier-Cool moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Corbin, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Third reading of Bill C-6, An Act to support and promote electronic commerce by protecting personal information that is collected, used or disclosed in certain circumstances, by providing for the use of electronic means to communicate or record information or transactions and by amending the Canada Evidence Act, the Statutory Instruments Act and the Statute Revision Act, as amended.The Honourable Senator Kirby moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Bryden, that the Bill, as amended, be read the third time.
After debate, In amendment, the Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Doody, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended in clause 7, on page 7:
(a) by deleting lines 16 to 22; and
(b) by renumbering paragraphs (h.1) and (h.2) as paragraphs (h) and (h.1), and any cross-references thereto accordingly.After debate, The Honourable Senator Kirby moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Corbin, that further debate on the motion in amendment be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Third reading of Bill C-7, An Act to amend the Criminal Records Act and to amend another Act in consequence, as amended.
The Honourable Senator Fraser moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Furey, that the Bill, as amended, be read the third time.
After debate, The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Bill, as amended, was then read the third time and passed.
Ordered, That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate have passed this Bill, with certain amendments, to which they desire their concurrence.
Motions
Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting.Reports of Committees
Consideration of the Second Report of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance (Supplementary Estimates "A", 1999-2000), presented in the Senate on December 2, 1999.The Honourable Senator Cools for the Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Finestone, P.C., that the Report be adopted.
After debate, The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Carstairs, seconded by the Honourable Senator Pépin, for the second reading of Bill S-2, An Act to facilitate the making of legitimate medical decisions regarding life-sustaining treatments and the controlling of pain.After debate, Further debate on the motion was adjourned until the next sitting in the name of the Honourable Senator Lavoie-Roux. Orders No. 2 to 9 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Commons Public Bills
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.Private Bills
Third reading of Bill S-14, An Act to amend the Act of incorporation of the Board of Elders of the Canadian District of the Moravian Church in America.The Honourable Senator Taylor moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Poy, that the Bill be read the third time.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Bill was then read the third time and passed.
Ordered, That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate have passed this Bill to which they desire their concurrence.
Reports of Committees
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.Other
Orders No. 4, 22 (motions), 9 (inquiry), 33, 5 (motions) 8, 7, 6, and 2 (inquiries) were called and postponed until the next sitting.SPEAKER'S RULING
Honourable Senators, actions within committees are outside of my responsibility. What committees do is up to committees. However, insofar as reporting, I refer you to Rule 97(1), which states:A report from a select committee shall be presented by the chairman of the committee or by a Senator designated by the chairman.
When a report is presented, I have no authority to question whether the Senator presenting has been designated. I must depend upon the committee Chairman to have done that.
I will now attempt to clarify the second element of the point of order.
This goes back to last week, and I read from the Journals of the Senate of November 24 respecting the Senate's decision with regard to Bill S-3:
The Bill was then read the second time.
The Honourable Senator Hays moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Mercier, that the Bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce.
There was then some debate, following which:
With leave of the Senate and pursuant to Rule 30 the motion was modified to read as follows:
That the Bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce and to the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs.
The question being put on the motion as modified, it was adopted.
Honourable Senators, I must say that this is a most unusual procedure. Certainly to send one bill to two committees is not good practice. After all, how is that done?
Therefore, it was sent, as I understand it, to the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce. The Committee studied the Bill and no amendments were proposed.
The Bill was reported back. I must refer you, then, to Rule 97(4), which states:
When a committee reports a bill without amendment, such report shall stand adopted without any motion, and the Senator in charge of the bill shall move that it be read a third time on a future day.
However, there was an instruction from the Senate, which I have just read to Honourable Senators, that the Bill was to be referred to the other committee. Thus, having been reported by one committee without amendment, I concluded that it should not then proceed to third reading because it still had to go to the other committee. That is what the Senate decided. There had to be a mechanism to move it to the other committee, and that is what was stated in the motion.
I do not know how else the report could have been handled in view of the decision of the Senate the previous week. I was locked in by the decision of the Senate to send the report to two committees. I do not know what other vehicle could have been used to achieve the decision of the Senate.