Journals of the Senate
50 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2001, Canada
Journals of the Senate
1st Session, 37th Parliament
Issue 60
Thursday, October 18, 2001
1:30 p.m.
The Honourable Rose-Marie Losier-Cool, Speaker pro tempore
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Beaudoin, Biron, Bryden, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Graham, Gustafson, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Kinsella, Kolber, Kroft, Lapointe, Léger, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Milne, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Pearson, Phalen, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Robichaud, Rompkey, Setlakwe, Sibbeston, Sparrow, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Tkachuk, Tunney, Watt, Wiebe
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Beaudoin, Biron, Bryden, Callbeck, *Carney, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Graham, Gustafson, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, *Keon, Kinsella, *Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, Lapointe, *Lawson, *LeBreton, Léger, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Milne, Moore, *Morin, Murray, Nolin, Pearson, Phalen, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Robichaud, *Roche, Rompkey, Setlakwe, Sibbeston, Sparrow, Spivak, *St. Germain, Stollery, Stratton, Tkachuk, Tunney, Watt, Wiebe
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees
The Honourable Senator Bacon presented the following:
THURSDAY, October 18, 2001
The Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications has the honour to present its
SIXTH REPORT
Your Committee, to which was referred Bill C-14, An Act respecting shipping and navigation and to amend the Shipping Conferences Exemption Act, 1987 and other Acts, has, in obedience to the Order of Reference of Wednesday, May 30, 2001, examined the said Bill and now reports the same without amendment, but with observations which are appended to this report.
Respectfully submitted,
LISE BACON
Chair
APPENDIX TO REPORT
While the Committee considers the bill to be a much-needed updating of outdated shipping legislation and, at the same time, a bill which takes new steps in the critically important areas of environmental protection and vessel safety, it nevertheless has a number of concerns which it wishes to register at this time.
The Committee's primary concerns have to do with the pollution of waterways and safety of pleasure craft.
Pollution of our waterways is a long-standing and growing problem. Recent issues such as the import of invasive species in ship ballast, and the disposal of cruise ship waste in the Inside Passage off the coast of British Columbia, are added to long-standing concerns such as the discharge of bilge water. Pleasure craft, though individually small polluters, cumulatively may well constitute a significant environmental danger to a much wider range of waterways.
The provisions of Part 8, which deal with pollution prevention and response generally, come under the authority of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, the jurisdiction for this legislation being shared between Transport Canada and the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. These provisions seem comprehensive and well thought out. However, it also appears that these provisions are far-reaching and will require both widespread enforcement and education. It is not at all clear whether the department will have the resources to do the job adequately.
The Committee has similar concerns with the provisions that deal with pleasure craft, Part 10. The Committee is informed that the provisions of the bill would give the appropriate department full authority to licence boats, and regulate and enforce safe operations. Indeed, the Committee is informed that this is only an updating of what currently exists in the law.
Not all members of this Committee, possibly like many other citizens of this country, were aware that the boats on their lakes and rivers were operating under the regulation and enforcement of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and Transport Canada. Citizens may not know whether it is the federal government, a provincial government or indeed their municipality and its police force, which is responsible for setting and enforcing safe boating regulations and pollution prevention measures, or if the authority has been delegated from one government to another, or if regulations are simply not being enforced.
It seems to the Committee that legislation which takes care of the problem ``on paper'', but which in reality is not adequately enforced, does not improve the state of affairs and may even on occasion have a negative effect. This is because the impression can be given that problems are being dealt with when, in reality, that is not the case.
The Committee believes several actions are needed to respond to its concerns. There is a need to clarify the jurisdictional issues. Although the jurisdictional authority may be clear to specialists working in the field, there is a great need for this to be made clear to the public at large. There is a need for the departments to educate the public as to who is responsible and has the authority for the regulations governing pollution prevention and pleasure craft safety, and to develop their enforcement plans and resource requirements in these areas.
The Committee therefore strongly recommends the Ministers to take these actions and secondly, to consider realistically if these sections, relating to pollution prevention and pleasure craft, can be enforced adequately with the resources at their disposal and, if not, to consider what other actions could be taken to ensure the safety of pleasure craft operators and the ecological integrity of our waterways. The Committee will review if these actions are taken and want to be informed of the outcomes.
The last issue of some concern to the Committee is the introduction in the marine mode of the new enforcement tool of administrative penalties. While the arguments in favour of introducing administrative penalties may be convincing, nevertheless their introduction in some sense results in a diminution, or delay, of due process in the legal sense. The Committee therefore wishes to be reassured in its understanding that anyone assessed an administrative penalty would have (after appeal to the appeal tribunal) recourse to the courts to seek to overturn what they see as an unjust penalty.
The Committee believes that regulations are an integral part of the legislation, and therefore will be reviewing the regulations when they are gazetted and asks the Ministers to report to us any difficulties encountered as the regulations are being developed.
In conclusion, the Committee urges the Ministers to take the actions noted above and requests that they report back to this Committee in two years time on what has been done and what has been achieved.
The Honourable Senator Callbeck moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Bacon, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Gustafson presented the following:
THURSDAY, October 18, 2001
The Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry has the honour to present its
FIFTH REPORT
Your Committee, which was authorized by the Senate on March 20, 2001 to examine international trade in agricultural and agri-food products, and short-term and long-term measures for the health of the agricultural and the agri-food industry in all regions of Canada, respectfully reports that the Minister of Agriculture cancelled his appearance today before your Committee, and therefore the Committee recommends that a Committee of the Whole be struck at the earliest opportunity to hear from the Minister of Agriculture on the crisis facing farmers in Manitoba and Western Canada.
Respectfully submitted,
LEONARD J. GUSTAFSON
Chair
The Honourable Senator Gustafson moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Tkachuk, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Motions
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Finestone, P.C.:
That at 3:00 p.m. on Thursday, October 4, 2001, the Senate resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole in order to receive officials from the Department of National Defence and the Department of Public Works and Government Services for a briefing on the procurement process for maritime helicopters.
After debate,
In amendment, the Honourable Senator Carstairs, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Joyal, P.C., that the motion be amended by striking out the words ``Thursday, October 4, 2001'' and replacing them with the following: ``Tuesday, October 30, 2001.''
The Honourable Senator Lynch-Staunton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Meighen, that further debate on the motion in amendment be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Orders No. 1 to 7 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees
Consideration of the Sixth Report of the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament (formerly Standing Committee on Privileges, Standing Rules and Orders) (study of the structure of Senate Committees—extension of reporting date) presented in the Senate on October 4, 2001.
The Honourable Senator Austin, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fitzpatrick, that the Report be adopted.
After debate,
With leave of the Senate,
In amendment, the Honourable Senator Austin, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Joyal, P.C., that the Report be amended by deleting the words ``Friday, February 15, 2002'' and substituting therefor the words ``Friday, March 29, 2002.''
The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
The question then being put on the motion for the adoption of the Report, as amended, it was adopted.
Orders No. 2 to 6 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Other
Orders No. 80 (motion), 16 (inquiry), 3 (motion), 18, 20 (inquiries), 65 (motion), 7, 13, 28, 6, 11, 10, 22, 23 (inquiries), 73, 44 (motions), 8 (inquiry), 54 and 41 (motions) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
MOTIONS
The Honourable Senator Andreychuk moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton:
That the date for the presentation by the Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights of the final report on its study into issues relating to human rights, and, inter alia, the machinery of government dealing with Canada's international and national human rights obligations, which was authorized by the Senate on May 10, 2001, be extended to Friday, December 21, 2001; and
That the Committee be permitted, notwithstanding the usual practices, to deposit its report with the Clerk of the Senate, if the Senate is not then sitting, and that the report be deemed to have been tabled in this Chamber.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
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With leave,
The Senate reverted to Government Notices of Motions.
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Day:
That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until Tuesday next, October 23, 2001, at 2:00 p.m.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cook:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 2:30 p.m. the Senate was continued until Tuesday next, October 23, 2001, at 2:00 p.m.)
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Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on National Finance
The name of the Honourable Senator Wiebe substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Banks (October 17).
The names of the Honourable Senators Banks, Adams, and Finnerty substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Wiebe, Banks and Day (October 18).
Special Committee of the Senate on the Subject-Matter of Bill C-36
The name of the Honourable Senator Bryden substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Jaffer (October 17).
Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry
The names of the Honourable Senators Johnson, Spivak, LeBreton and Stratton substituted for those of the Honourable Senators LeBreton, Stratton, Johnson and Spivak (October 18).