Journals of the Senate
50 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2001, Canada
Journals of the Senate
1st Session, 37th Parliament
Issue 79
Monday, December 10, 2001
8:00 p.m.
The Honourable Daniel Hays, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Banks, Beaudoin, Biron, Bolduc, Bryden, Buchanan, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kolber, Kroft, LaPierre, Lapointe, LeBreton, Léger, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Milne, Moore, Morin, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Rivest, Robertson, Robichaud, Rompkey, Setlakwe, Sparrow, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Taylor, Tunney, Wiebe, Wilson
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Banks, Beaudoin, Biron, Bolduc, Bryden, Buchanan, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kolber, Kroft, LaPierre, Lapointe, LeBreton, Léger, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Milne, Moore, Morin, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Rivest, Robertson, Robichaud, Rompkey, Setlakwe, Sparrow, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Taylor, Tunney, Wiebe, Wilson
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees
The Honourable Senator Fairbairn, P.C., presented the following:
MONDAY, December 10, 2001
The Special Senate Committee on Bill C-36 (formerly the Special Senate Committee on the Subject Matter of Bill C- 36) has the honour to present its
SECOND REPORT
Your Committee, to which was referred Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Official Secrets Act, the Canada Evidence Act, the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) Act and other Acts, and to enact measures respecting the registration of charities, in order to combat terrorism, has, in obedience to the Order of Reference of Thursday, November 29, 2001, examined the said Bill and now reports the same without amendment, but with the appended observations.
Respectfully submitted,
JOYCE FAIRBAIRN
Chair
(The Appendix to the Report is printed as an Appendix)
The Honourable Senator Carstairs, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted, on division.
The Honourable Senator Hervieux-Payette, P.C., Joint Chair of the Standing Joint Committee for the Scrutiny of Regulations, tabled its Fourth Report (Northwest Territories Reindeer Regulations).—Sessional Paper No. 1/37-596S.
The Honourable Senator Kroft presented the following:
MONDAY, December 10, 2001
The Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration has the honour to present its
TENTH REPORT
Your Committee has approved the Senate Estimates for the fiscal year 2002-2003 and recommends their adoption.
Your Committee notes that the proposed total budget is $63,900,850.
Respectfully submitted,
RICHARD H. KROFT
Chair
The Honourable Senator Kroft moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Moore, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Introduction and First Reading of Government Bills
A Message was brought from the House of Commons with a Bill C-46, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (alcohol ignition interlock device programs), to which they desire the concurrence of the Senate.
The Bill was read the first time.
The Honourable Senator Carstairs, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Graham, P.C., that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading two days hence.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Notices of Motions
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Kroft moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Austin, P.C.:
That the Senate authorize the videotaping of segments of its proceedings, including Royal Assent, before the Senate rises for its forthcoming Christmas adjournment, for the purpose of making an educational video.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
DEFERRED DIVISION
At 9:00 p.m., pursuant to the Order adopted on December 6, 2001, the Senate proceeded to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion of the Honourable Senator Milne, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., for the adoption of the Tenth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs (Bill C-7, An Act in respect of criminal justice for young persons and to amend and repeal other Acts, with amendments) presented in the Senate on November 8, 2001.
The question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following division:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Beaudoin, Bolduc, Cochrane, Comeau, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Forrestall, Grafstein, Gustafson, Hervieux-Payette, Joyal, Kelleher, Keon, Kinsella, LeBreton, Lynch-Staunton, Meighen, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Rivest, Robertson, Sparrow, Spivak, Stratton—30
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Austin, Banks, Biron, Bryden, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cook, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Graham, Hubley, Jaffer, Kenny, Kolber, Kroft, LaPierre, Lapointe, Léger, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Mahovlich, Milne, Morin, Pearson, Phalen, Poulin, Poy, Robichaud, Rompkey, Setlakwe, Stollery, Taylor, Tunney, Wiebe—45
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Cools—2
The Honourable Senator Milne moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Chalifoux, that Bill C-7 be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
A Point of Order was raised concerning the Second Report of the Special Committee of the Senate on Bill C-36, presented earlier this day.
After debate,
The Speaker reserved his decision.
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Second reading of Bill C-44, An Act to amend the Aeronautics Act.
The Honourable Senator Gill moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Hubley, that the Bill be read the second time.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Bill was then read the second time.
The Honourable Senator Gill moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Hubley, that the Bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Third reading of Bill C-38, An Act to amend the Air Canada Public Participation Act.
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., that the Bill be read the third time.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Kinsella for the Honourable Senator Tkachuk moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Forrestall, that debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Third reading of Bill C-40, An Act to correct certain anomalies, inconsistencies and errors and to deal with other matters of a non-controversial and uncomplicated nature in the Statutes of Canada and to repeal certain provisions that have expired, lapsed, or otherwise ceased to have effect.
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Chalifoux, that the Bill be read the third time.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Bill was then read the third time and passed.
Ordered, That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate have passed this Bill, without amendment.
Orders No. 3 and 4 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Second reading of Bill C-35, An Act to amend the Foreign Missions and International Organizations Act.
The Honourable Senator Graham, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., that the Bill be read the second time.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Stratton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Atkins, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Second reading of Bill C-41, An Act to amend the Canadian Commercial Corporation Act.
The Honourable Senator Hervieux-Payette, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Milne, that the Bill be read the second time.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Kinsella for the Honourable Senator Meighen moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Second reading of Bill C-37, An Act to facilitate the implementation of those provisions of first nations' claim settlements in the Provinces of Alberta and Saskatchewan that relate to the creation of reserves or the addition of land to existing reserves, and to make related amendments to the Manitoba Claim Settlements Implementation Act and the Saskatchewan Treaty Land Entitlement Act.
The Honourable Senator Wiebe moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Banks, that the Bill be read the second time.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Kinsella for the Honourable Senator Johnson moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Atkins, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Order No. 9 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
SPEAKER'S RULING
Before proceeding beyond Orders of the Day and other business, I will rule on the question raised earlier today by Senator Kinsella relating to the second report of the Special Committee of the Senate on the Subject Matter of Bill C- 36.
I thank Senators Robichaud and Kinsella for their comments and their help with respect to whether the motion of Senator Carstairs that the bill be read the third time at the next sitting is in order, or whether it should be set down for third reading two days hence.
Honourable senators, the practice here has been that when a committee reports a bill without amendment, we immediately proceed to third reading. I refer you to Bill C-11, an immigration bill dealt with by the chamber on October 23 of this year. It was reported back with observations but without amendment, and it did proceed to third reading, as Senator Carstairs has moved with respect to Bill C -36. Another example dates from June 22 of last year, being Bill C-473, a bill dealing with electoral district names. It was treated in the same way.
An issue was raised by Senator Kinsella in terms of the comments creating a substantive part of the report which required additional time for preparation so that debate on those observations could be full and complete. Senator Robichaud pointed out that there is no impediment to using the observations in terms of debate at the third reading stage. Accordingly, I do not find that a compelling argument.
Going specifically to the rules, the rule that Senator Carstairs is relying on in making the motion to proceed to third reading, the committee on Bill C-36 having reported the bill without amendment, is rule 97(4):
When a committee reports a bill without amendment, such report shall stand adopted without any motion, and the Senator in charge of the bill shall move that it be read a third time on a future day.
There is then the question of whether that rule or rule 97(5) would be applicable. That rule refers to a report that recommends amendments, which this committee report did not do. That particular rule refers to two previous rules, 57(1)(e) and 58(1)(g), one of which provides for one day's notice, the other for two days' notice. The question becomes whether rule 97(4) or 97(5) is applicable.
The question of the committee on Bill C-36 being a special committee was raised as a possible reason for the application of rule 97(5) and not 97(4). However, I believe that matter is resolved by the definition of ``committee'' in section 4(b)(i) of the rules, which defines ``committee'' as meaning, in part, a special committee.
Accordingly, honourable senators, I do not find the argument that the motion to proceed to third reading on one day's notice is anything but in order. That is my ruling, honourable senators.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Orders No. 1 to 6 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Consideration of the Tenth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications (budget—study on the intercity busing industry), presented in the Senate on December 6, 2001.
The Honourable Senator Bacon moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Joyal, P.C., that the Report be adopted.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 3 to 11 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Other
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool, seconded by the Honourable Senator Léger:
That the Senate of Canada recommends that the Government of Canada recognize the date of August 15th as Fête nationale des Acadiens et Acadiennes, given the Acadian people's economic, cultural and social contribution to Canada.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator LaPierre moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Day, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 28, 7, 16, 11, 29, 33 (inquiries), 3 (motion), 32 (inquiry), 73 (motion), 26 (inquiry), 74, 44 (motions), 8, 31 (inquiries), 82 (motion), 13 (inquiry), 41 and 80 (motions) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
INQUIRIES
The Honourable Senator Stratton called the attention of the Senate to the fact that even in times of crisis or emergency, certain values and rights are to remain inviolate.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Kinsella moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Report of operations under the Export and Import Permits Act for the year 2000, pursuant to the Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. E-19, s. 27. —Sessional Paper No. 1/37-595.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C.:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 11:14 p.m. the Senate was continued until 2:00 p.m. tomorrow.)
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Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce
The name of the Honourable Senator Fitzpatrick substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Banks (December 6).
Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry
The name of the Honourable Senator Phalen substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Cordy (December 7).
Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration
The names of the Honourable Senators Furey and Poulin substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Banks and LaPierre (December 7).
Special Committee of the Senate on Bill C-36
The name of the Honourable Senator Chalifoux substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Poulin (December 7).
The names of the Honourable Senators Lynch-Staunton and Poulin substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Tkachuk and Chalifoux (December 10).
Special Committee of the Senate on Illegal Drugs
The name of the Honourable Senator Stollery substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Kenny (December 10).