Journals of the Senate
50 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2001, Canada
Journals of the Senate
1st Session, 37th Parliament
Issue 83
Friday, December 14, 2001
9:00 a.m.
The Honourable Rose-Marie Losier-Cool, Speaker pro tempore
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Beaudoin, Bolduc, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carney, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Graham, Gustafson, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, LaPierre, LeBreton, Léger, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Milne, Moore, Morin, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pépin, Phalen, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Rivest, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, Setlakwe, Sibbeston, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Taylor, Tkachuk, Tunney, Watt, Wiebe
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, *Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Beaudoin, Bolduc, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carney, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Graham, Gustafson, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, LaPierre, LeBreton, Léger, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Milne, Moore, Morin, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, *Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Rivest, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, Setlakwe, Sibbeston, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Taylor, Tkachuk, Tunney, Watt, Wiebe
The Clerk at the Table informed the Senate that the Honourable the Speaker was unavoidably absent, whereupon the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool, Speaker pro tempore, took the Chair, pursuant to Rule 11.
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees
The Honourable Senator LeBreton presented the following:
FRIDAY, December 14, 2001
The Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology has the honour to present its
TWELFTH REPORT
Your Committee, to which was referred Bill S-12, An Act to amend the Statistics Act and the National Archives of Canada Act (census records), in obedience to the Order of Reference of Tuesday, March 27, 2001, has examined the said Bill and now reports the same without amendment.
Attached as an appendix to this Report are the observations of your Committee on Bill S-12.
Respectfully submitted,
MARJORY LEBRETON
Deputy Chair
APPENDIX TO THE REPORT
Observations of the Standing Senate Committee on
Social Affairs, Science and Technology
During its hearings on Bill S-12, the Committee heard a range of opinions regarding the Bill's proposed amendments to the Statistics Act and the National Archives of Canada Act. The proposed amendments would mandate the transfer of all personal and agricultural census records from Statistics Canada to the National Archives and would provide that the records be made available to the public after the elapse of 92 years. All census records up to and including the 1901 Census have already been made available for public use but later censuses have been withheld based on the interpretation of confidentiality provisions relating to census data collection. The interpretation of such provisions, which are found in legislation beginning with the 1918 Statistics Act and in regulations or directives prior to that date, was the subject of debate among the witnesses heard by the Committee.
Most witnesses favoured some sort of provision for the eventual release of census records. The Committee heard that without their release, historians will lose important information about our nation's heritage and those interested in genealogy will lose important information about their ancestors. There was also evidence that other countries automatically release their census records after a designated period; for example, the United States and Britain release records after 100 years and 72 years respectively. In Canada, the pre-1901 records that have been released have demonstrated practical importance. Reference was made in testimony to the use of such records by the Métis of Sault Ste. Marie to establish historical hunting rights in the Ontario Courts.
Those in support of the release of historical census records were, however, divided on the issue of whether Bill S-12 adequately addresses privacy issues. Some were of the opinion that the public is simply not concerned about the release of such data and noted that there have been no complaints about the release of pre-1901 Canadian records or the release of Newfoundland's pre-1949 census records. On the other hand, it was noted that the Bill would potentially provide public access to medical and genetic information that could affect the relatives and descendants of census respondents. It was suggested by one witness that the insurance industry could use such information for making decisions regarding coverage. However, it was also pointed out that several serious but preventable conditions are also genetic in nature, and that an accurate family tree can predict these conditions and allow for their early treatment or even prevention.
Bill S-12 would provide a right to object to the release of one's own census information but the process contemplated by the Bill would require that the individual objecting make an application to the National Archivist 91 years after the data was collected. Assuming the individual was still alive, the objection to disclosure would only be considered valid if the Archivist was satisfied that disclosure would be unwarranted.
The Committee was also provided a compromise proposal by Statistics Canada. This proposal would provide more limited access than anticipated by Bill S-12. Access to historical census records would be provided only for genealogical research about one's own family and for historical research. Only family members (or their authorized agents) or those conducting historical research (peer reviewed by the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council) would be given access. While access would be unrestricted, researchers would only be permitted to make public the following basic information: name, age, address, marital status and birthplace. Furthermore, those accessing information would have to sign a legally enforceable undertaking confirming that they agree to be bound by these terms.
The Committee also reviewed the report of the Expert Panel on Access to Historical Census Records which was established in 1999 to examine the issue of disclosure. The Expert Panel concluded that no perpetual guarantee of confidentiality was ever intended to attach to census records. However, they urged caution with respect to the release of records created after the 1918 Statistics Act as the public might perceive the release of these census records as a revocation of a guarantee previously made by the government. This was the main concern of Statistics Canada as well. StatsCan is in the process of conducting town hall meetings across the country to better ascertain whether cooperation with future censuses could be affected by the release of 92 year-old records.
Notwithstanding the compulsory provisions of the Statistics Act, Statistics Canada relies on public cooperation and is thus concerned with the preservation of the integrity of Canada's statistical system. The integrity of Statistics Canada is based on its ability and effectiveness in keeping what its officials referred to as an "unconditional promise of confidentiality''. According to a poll by Environics, Canadians are concerned that if legislation such as Bill S-12 were passed, their cooperation in future censuses could be impacted.
In summary, many witnesses and Committee members favoured the disclosure of historical census records after 92 years, but there was disagreement as to whether Bill S-12 provides adequate privacy protection. Some members of the Committee favour the provisions of the compromise proposal over the process delineated by Bill S-12. For these reasons, the Bill was agreed to on division of the Committee.
The Honourable Senator Milne moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Chalifoux, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator LeBreton, Deputy Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology, tabled its Thirteenth Report (subject-matter of Bill S-21, An Act to guarantee the human right to privacy). —Sessional Paper No. 1/37-609S.
The Honourable Senator LeBreton, moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator LeBreton, Deputy Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology, tabled its Fourteenth Report (developments since Royal Assent was given during the 2nd Session of the 36th Parliament to Bill C-6, Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act.).—Sessional Paper No. 1/37- 610S.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Third reading of Bill C-44, An Act to amend the Aeronautics Act.
The Honourable Senator Gill moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Hubley, that the Bill be read the third time.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Bill was then read the third time and passed.
Ordered, That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate have passed this Bill, without amendment.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Finnerty, seconded by the Honourable Senator Finestone, P.C., for the second reading of Bill C-45, An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the public service of Canada for the financial year ending March 31, 2002.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Stratton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator LeBreton, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following division:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Atkins, Beaudoin, Bolduc, Buchanan, Carney, Comeau, Di Nino, Doody, Johnson, Keon, Kinsella, LeBreton, Lynch-Staunton, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Prud'homme, Rivest, Stratton—20
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Bacon, Bryden, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Graham, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Kirby, LaPierre, Léger, Maheu, Mahovlich, Milne, Morin, Phalen, Poulin, Poy, Robichaud, Rompkey, Setlakwe, Sibbeston, Stollery, Taylor, Tunney, Watt, Wiebe—45
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Roche—1
The Senate resumed debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Finnerty, seconded by the Honourable Senator Finestone, P.C., for the second reading of Bill C-45, An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the public service of Canada for the financial year ending March 31, 2002.
After debate,
The question was put on the motion.
Pursuant to Rule 67(2), a recorded division was deferred until 5:30 p.m. on Monday next, December 17, 2001.
Third reading of Bill C-6, An Act to amend the International Boundary Waters Treaty Act.
The Honourable Senator Corbin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Ferretti Barth, that the Bill be read the third time.
After debate,
In amendment, the Honourable Senator Carney, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Di Nino, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended, in clause 1,
(a) on page 1,
(i) by adding after line 14 the following:
" "removal of boundary waters in bulk'' means the removal of water from boundary waters and taking it outside the water basin in which the boundary waters are located
(a) by means of any natural or artificial diversion, such as a pipeline, canal, tunnel, aqueduct or channel; or
(b) by any other means by which more than 50,000 L of boundary waters are taken outside the water basin per day.'', and
(ii) by replacing lines 24 and 25 with the following:
"sanitary purposes.'';
(b) on page 2,
(i) by replacing line 1 with the following:
"12. Except in accordance with a licence,'',
(ii) by deleting lines 11 and 12,
(iii) by replacing lines 14 to 17 with the following:
"use or divert boundary waters by the removal of boundary waters in bulk.'',
(iv) by replacing lines 18 to 26 with the following:
"(2) For the purpose of subsection (1) and the application of the treaty, the removal of boundary waters in bulk is deemed, given the cumulative effect of removals of boundary waters outside their water basins, to affect the natural level or flow of the boundary waters on the other side of the international boundary and to have a negative environmental impact.'',
(v) by replacing lines 27 and 28 with the following:
"(3) Subsection (1) applies only in respect of the portion of the following water basins that is located in Canada:
(a) Great Lakes — St. Lawrence Basin, being composed of the area of land that drains into the Great Lakes or the St. Lawrence River;
(b) Hudson Bay Basin, being composed of the area of land that drains into Hudson Bay; and
(c) St. John — St. Croix Basin, being composed of the area of land that drains into the St. John River or the St. Croix River.'', and
(vi) by replacing lines 29 and 30 with the following:
"(4) Subsection (1) does not apply to boundary waters used
(a) as ballast in a vehicle, vessel or aircraft, for the operation of the vehicle, vessel or aircraft, or for people, animals or products on the vehicle, vessel or aircraft; or
(b) for firefighting or humanitarian purposes in short-term situations in a non-commercial project.'';
(c) on page 4,
(i) by deleting lines 13 to 22, and
(ii) by renumbering paragraphs 21(1)(e) to (m) as paragraphs 21(1)(a) to (i), and any cross-references thereto accordingly.
The question was put on the motion in amendment.
With leave of the Senate, a recorded division was deferred until 4:30 p.m. on Monday next, December 17, 2001.
Order No. 6 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Graham, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., for the second reading of Bill C-35, An Act to amend the Foreign Missions and International Organizations Act.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Bill was then read the second time.
The Honourable Senator Graham, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fairbairn, P.C., that the Bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Hervieux-Payette, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Milne, for the second reading of Bill C-41, An Act to amend the Canadian Commercial Corporation Act.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Bill was then read the second time.
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Finestone, P.C., that the Bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 9 and 10 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Carstairs, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Fairbairn, P.C., for the third reading of Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Official Secrets Act, the Canada Evidence Act, the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) Act and other Acts, and to enact measures respecting the registration of charities in order to combat terrorism,
And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Lynch-Staunton, seconded by the Honourable Senator Forrestall, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended on page 183, by adding after line 28 the following:
"Expiration
147. (1) The provisions of this Act, except those referred to in subsection (2), cease to be in force five years after the day on which this Act receives royal assent or on any earlier day fixed by order of the Governor in Council.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to section 320.1 of the Criminal Code, as enacted by section 10, to subsection 430(4.1) of the Criminal Code, as enacted by section 12, to subsection 13(2) of the Canadian Human Rights Act, as enacted by section 88, or to the provisions of this Act that enable Canada to fulfill its commitments under the conventions referred to in the definition "United Nations operation'' in subsection 2(2) and in the definition "terrorist activity'' in subsection 83.01(1) of the Criminal Code, as enacted by section 4.''.
After debate,
The question was put on the motion in amendment.
With leave of the Senate, a recorded division was deferred until 3:30 p.m. on Monday next, December 17, 2001.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Pearson, seconded by the Honourable Senator Bryden, for the third reading of Bill C-7, An Act in respect of criminal justice for young persons and to amend and repeal other Acts, as amended.
After debate,
In amendment, the Honourable Senator Nolin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Andreychuk, that the Bill, as amended, be not now read a third time but that it be further amended in clause 110, on page 113, by replacing line 29 with the following:
"(2) When the youth justice court, on application of the Attorney General, determines that the public interest will best be served and that the rehabilitation of the young person will not be compromised, subsection (1) does not apply''.
The question was put on the motion in amendment.
With leave of the Senate, a recorded division was deferred until 3:00 p.m. on Monday next, December 17, 2001.
Ordered, That Order No. 2 under OTHER BUSINESS, Reports of Committees, be brought forward.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Austin, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Joyal, P.C., for the adoption of the Eighth Report of the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament (amendments to the Rules—Senators indicted and subject to judicial proceedings) presented in the Senate on December 5, 2001.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on division.
_________________________________________________________
A Point of Order was raised with respect to the vote, to take place on Monday next, on Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Official Secrets Act, the Canada Evidence Act, the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) Act and other Acts, and to enact measures respecting the registration of charities in order to combat terrorism.
After debate,
The Speaker pro tempore reserved her decision.
_________________________________________________________
Ordered, That all remaining Orders be postponed until the next sitting.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Reports of the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2001, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2).—Sessional Paper No. 1/37- 608.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Milne:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 1:35 p.m. the Senate was continued until Monday next, December 17, 2001, at 2:00 p.m.)