Journals of the Senate
52 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2003, Canada
Journals of the Senate
2nd Session, 37th Parliament
Issue 42
Thursday, March 20, 2003
1:30 p.m.
The Honourable Daniel Hays, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Beaudoin, Biron, Buchanan, Carstairs, Chaput, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Fairbairn, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Graham, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Joyal, Kelleher, Kinsella, LaPierre, Lapointe, LeBreton, Léger, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Milne, Moore, Morin, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pépin, Poulin (Charette), Prud'homme, Ringuette, Rivest, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, Setlakwe, Sparrow, Stollery, Stratton, Tkachuk, Watt, Wiebe
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Beaudoin, Biron, Buchanan, *Carney, Carstairs, *Chalifoux, Chaput, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, *Eyton, Fairbairn, *Finnerty, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Graham, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, *Jaffer, Joyal, Kelleher, *Kenny, Kinsella, LaPierre, Lapointe, LeBreton, Léger, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, *Merchant, Milne, Moore, Morin, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, *Pearson, Pépin, Poulin (Charette), Prud'homme, Ringuette, Rivest, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, Setlakwe, *Sibbeston, Sparrow, *Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Tkachuk, Watt, Wiebe
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees
The Honourable Senator Fraser presented the following:
THURSDAY, March 20, 2003
The Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications has the honour to present its
FOURTH REPORT
Your Committee, to which was referred Bill S-8, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act, has, in obedience to the Order of Reference of October 24, 2002, examined the said Bill and now reports the same without amendment. Your Committee appends to this report certain observations on the Bill.
Respectfully submitted,
JOAN FRASER
Chair
Observations of the Standing Senate Committee on
Transport and Communications on Bill S-8,
An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act
Your Committee endorses the content and philosophy of Bill S-8, namely that the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) should have the same power to award costs to interveners in broadcasting hearings that it has in telecommunications hearings. This support was previously noted in your Committee's Fourth Report during the First Session of the Thirty-seventh Parliament. During the course of hearings on this Bill, however, witnesses raised several concerns.
The Bill does not specify the exact mechanism for the awarding of costs to interveners at broadcasting hearings. The Telecommunications Act does provide a model — one that officials from the CRTC thought worked well — but several witnesses expressed concerns. They said that hearings for broadcasting and telecommunications are not comparable. In particular, telecom hearings are more technical and attract a relatively small number of specialist interveners, including lawyers, economists and accountants. There is no ceiling on the awards at telecom hearings; the size of awards has varied considerably, from a low of $151.59 (Costs Order CRTC 2000-4) to a high of $305,091.64 (Taxation Order CRTC 98-6).
Broadcasting hearings tend to be less technical and attract a larger number of interveners. Some witnesses suggested that using the telecom model of cost awards could lead to more technical hearings for broadcasting, and the larger number of interveners could lead to higher total intervener costs for broadcasting hearings than for telecom hearings.
In addition, several witnesses suggested that small broadcasters and small, rural cable systems would be hurt if they had to pay intervener costs. The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) also raised concerns about a possible financial burden if it were subject to the Bill. Large payments could harm the CBC's financial position and lead to a cut-back in services to Canadians.
While your Committee supports the Bill, it also urges all those involved in developing mechanisms for its implementation to pay particular attention to these issues.
The Honourable Senator Kinsella moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Bacon presented the following:
THURSDAY, March 20, 2003
The Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration has the honour to present its
ELEVENTH REPORT
Your Committee recommends a 2.8 per cent economic increase to unrepresented employees of the Senate Administration effective April 1, 2003.
Respectfully submitted,
LISE BACON
Chair
The Honourable Senator Bacon moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Maheu, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Bacon presented the following:
THURSDAY, March 20, 2003
The Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration has the honour to present its
TWELFTH REPORT
The current travel policy for Senate committees includes the following:
Members of a travelling committee and their staff are entitled, for travel within and outside Canada, to a per diem equivalent to the Treasury Board rate or actual expenses accompanied by original receipts.
This policy was adopted in the 38th Report of the Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration on March 29, 1990. It was adopted by the Senate on May 1, 1990.
The current policy has no upper limit or restrictions, seriously compromising accountability.
Your Committee recommends that the policy be amended as follows, to bring in it line with Treasury Board policy:
Where a traveller incurs meal costs that are higher than the established meal allowances in situations outside the traveller's control, the actual and reasonable expenses incurred shall be reimbursed, based on original receipts.
Such a change would improve the policy by allowing a reasonable level of flexibility, while increasing accountability.
Respectfully submitted,
LISE BACON
Chair
The Honourable Senator Bacon moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Maheu, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Second reading of Bill S-16, An Act to amend the Constitution Act, 1867 and the Parliament of Canada Act (Speakership of the Senate).
The Honourable Senator Oliver moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, that the Bill be read the second time.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Joyal, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cools, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Kinsella, seconded by the Honourable Senator Corbin, for the second reading of Bill S-14, An Act to amend the National Anthem Act to reflect the linguistic duality of Canada.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Prud'homme, P.C., that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Second reading of Bill S-15, An Act to remove certain doubts regarding the meaning of marriage.
The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Wiebe, that the Bill be read the second time.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Wiebe, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Order No. 4 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Poy, seconded by the Honourable Senator Banks, for the second reading of Bill S-3, An Act to amend the National Anthem Act to include all Canadians.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Prud'homme, P.C., that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 6 to 8 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Commons Public Bills
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Poulin, seconded by the Honourable Senator Poy, for the second reading of Bill C-227, An Act respecting a national day of remembrance of the Battle of Vimy Ridge.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Kinsella for the Honourable Senator Atkins moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Milne, for the second reading of Bill C-300, An Act to change the names of certain electoral districts.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Prud'homme, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Comeau, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Reports of Committees
Orders No. 1 to 8 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Other
Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator LeBreton calling the attention of the Senate to the legacy of waste during the Martin — Chrétien years.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., for the Honourable Senator Bryden moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 66 (motion), 17, 16 and 6 (inquiries) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Roche, seconded by the Honourable Senator Taylor:
That the Senate notes the crisis between the United States and Iraq, and affirms the urgent need for Canada to uphold international law under which, absent an attack or imminent threat of attack, only the United Nations Security Council has the authority to determine compliance with its resolutions and sanction military action.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cook, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 11, 7, 3 (inquiries), 7 (motion), 8 and 9 (inquiries) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Nolin calling the attention of the Senate to the findings contained in the Report of the Special Committee of the Senate on Illegal Drugs entitled Cannabis: Our Position for a Canadian Public Policy, deposited with the Clerk of the Senate in the First Session of the Thirty-seventh Parliament, on September 3, 2002.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Stratton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kinsella, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Order No. 5 (motion) was called and postponed until the next sitting.
INQUIRIES
The Honourable Senator Gauthier called the attention of the Senate to the important role of culture in Canada and the image that we project abroad.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Lapointe moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator LaPierre, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
MOTIONS
The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Day:
That the Senate Standing Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs be authorized to examine and report on the law of marriage in Canada, in particular its historical and constitutional meaning as a voluntary union between a man and a woman, and the history and application of the law of marriage, and the Constitution Act, 1982 Charter of Rights, and the current constitutional challenges to the law of marriage in the courts of British Columbia, Ontario, and Quebec, and the Minister of Justice's November 2002 discussion paper on marriage, and the current demands for different forms of marriage, and the public interest in the law of marriage; and
That the Committee submit its report no later than June 30, 2003.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Day, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on division.
The Honourable Senator Maheu moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Mahovlich:
That the Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights be authorized to invite Professor Nicole Laviolette, from the University of Ottawa, to present her Report on the Principal international human rights instruments to which Canada has not yet acceded.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
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With leave,
The Senate reverted to Government Notices of Motions.
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C.:
That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until Tuesday next, March 25, 2003, at 2:00 p.m.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Summaries of the Corporate Plan for 2003-07 and the Operating and Capital Budgets for 2003 of Export Development Canada, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-288.
Summaries of the Corporate Plan for 2003-07 of the Atlantic Pilotage Authority, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-289.
Summaries of the Corporate Plan for 2003-07 and the Operating and Capital Budgets for 2003 of Marine Atlantic Inc., pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-290.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C.:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 4:53 p.m. the Senate was continued until Tuesday, March 25, 2003, at 2:00 p.m.)
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Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on National Finance
The names of the Honourable Senators Smith, Fraser and Wiebe substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Furey, Hubley and Cook (March 19).
Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration
The name of the Honourable Senator Robertson substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Angus (March 19).
Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications
The name of the Honourable Senator Forrestall substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Johnson (March 19).
The name of the Honourable Senator Merchant substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Callbeck (March 20).