Journals of the Senate
53 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2004, Canada
Journals of the Senate
3rd Session, 37th Parliament
Issue 17
Thursday, February 26, 2004
1:30 p.m.
The Honourable Daniel Hays, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Baker, Beaudoin, Biron, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chaput, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Downe, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Gustafson, Harb, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kroft, Lavigne, LeBreton, Léger, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Meighen, Mercer, Merchant, Milne, Moore, Morin, Munson, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Pitfield, Plamondon, Poy, Prud'homme, Ringuette, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, St. Germain, Sibbeston, Smith, Sparrow, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Trenholme Counsell, Watt
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, *Bacon, Baker, Beaudoin, Biron, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chaput, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Downe, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Gustafson, Harb, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, *Kirby, Kroft, Lavigne, LeBreton, Léger, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Meighen, Mercer, Merchant, Milne, Moore, Morin, Munson, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Pitfield, Plamondon, Poy, Prud'homme, Ringuette, *Rivest, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, St. Germain, Sibbeston, Smith, Sparrow, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Trenholme Counsell, Watt
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees
The Honourable Senator Furey, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs, presented its Second Report (Bill C-5, An Act respecting the effective date of the representation order of 2003) without amendment.
The Honourable Senator Smith, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., presented the following:
THURSDAY, February 26, 2004
The Standing Senate Committee on National Finance has the honour to present its
SECOND REPORT
Your Committee, to which was referred Bill C-212, An Act respecting user fees, has, in obedience to the Order of Reference of Wednesday, February 11, 2004, examined the said Bill and now reports the same with the following amendments:
1. Page 1, clause 2:
(a) Replace lines 8 and 9 with the following:
""Committee'' means, in respect of each House of Parliament, the appropriate standing committee of that House.'';
(b) Replace line 17 with the following:
""Minister'' means the appropriate minister, as defined in section 2 of the Financial Administration Act, who is responsible for'';
(c) Replace lines 21 to 23 with the following:
"body mentioned in Schedule I, I.1 or II to the Financial Administration Act that has the power to fix a user fee under the authority of an Act of Parliament. Where the Act gives that power to the Governor in Council or a Minister, it means the body proposing the user fee.''; and
(d) Replace lines 25 to 28 with the following:
"product, regulatory process, authorization, permit or licence, facility, or for a service that is provided only by a regulating authority, that is fixed pursuant to the authority of an Act of Parliament and which results''.
2. Page 2, clause 3: Replace lines 1 to 9 with the following:
"3. (1) This Act applies to all user fees fixed by a regulating authority.
(2) This Act does not apply to a user fee fixed by one regulating authority and charged to another.''.
3. Pages 2 and 3, clause 4:
(a) Page 2:
(i) Replace lines 29 to 31 with the following:
"(e) establish an independent advisory panel to address a complaint submitted by a client regarding'', and
(ii) Replace lines 34 and 35 with the following:
"to those established by other countries with which a comparison is relevant and against which the''; and
(b) Page 3:
(i) Replace lines 2 and 3 with the following:
"Minister must cause to be tabled in each House of Parliament a proposal'',
(ii) Replace line 4 with the following:
"(a) explaining in respect of what service, product, regulatory process,'',
(iii) Replace lines 9 to 12 with the following:
"(c) including the performance standards established in accordance with paragraph (1)(f), as well as the actual performance levels that have been reached;'',
(iv) Replace line 17 with the following:
"the costs that the user fee will cover; and
(e) describing the establishment of an independent advisory panel in accordance with paragraph (1)(e) and describing how any complaints received under section 4.1 were dealt with.'', and
(v) Replace lines 20 and 21 with the following:
"higher than that existing in a country with which a comparison referred to in paragraph (1)(f) is relevant, the''.
(c) Page 3: Add after line 25 the following:
"4.1 (1) A regulating authority that receives a complaint about a proposed user fee within the period set out in a notice issued by that authority must
(a) try to resolve the complaint; and
(b) give the complainant notice in writing of proposed measures for its resolution.
(2) If the complaint is not resolved to the complainant's satisfaction within 30 days after the expiry of the period set out in the notice, the complainant may request in writing that the regulating authority refer the complaint to an independent advisory panel.
(3) Within 40 days after the expiry of the period set out in the notice, the regulating authority and the complainant must each select one member to sit on the panel and those members must select a third member.
(4) The regulating authority may decide, for reasons of economy and efficiency, that two or more complaints about a particular proposal be dealt with by the same panel. In that case, the panel member to be selected by the complainants is selected by a majority vote.
(5) The panel must, within 30 days after all members have been selected, send a report in writing of its findings and recommendations for resolving the dispute to the regulating authority and the complainant.
(6) Subject to subsection (7), the panel has the power to award costs of the proceedings, including the cost of the fees and expenses of panel members.
(7) If, in the opinion of the panel, a complaint is frivolous or vexatious, the complainant bears all the costs.
(8) Costs payable by the complainant become a debt due to Her Majesty and may be recovered as such in any court of competent jurisdiction.''.
4. Page 3, clause 5:
(a) Replace lines 27 to 29 with the following:
"for a user fee referred to it''; and
(b) Replace line 31 with the following:
"Senate or the House of Commons, as the case may be, a report containing its''.
5. Pages 3 and 4, clause 5.1:
(a) Page 3: Replace lines 34 to 38 with the following:
"5.1 Where a regulating authority's performance in a particular fiscal year in respect of a user fee does not meet the standards established by it for that fiscal year by a percentage greater than ten per cent, the user fee shall be reduced by a percentage equivalent to the unachieved performance, to a maximum of fifty per cent of the user fee. The reduced user fee applies from the day on which the annual report for the fiscal year is tabled under subsection 8(1) until the day on which the next annual report is tabled.''; and
(b) Page 4: Delete lines 1 and 2.
6. Page 4, clause 6:
(a) Replace line 3 with the following:
"6. (1) The Senate or the House of Commons may pass a''; and
(b) Replace lines 7 to 12 with the following:
"(2) If, within twenty sitting days after the tabling of a proposal under subsection 4(2), the Committee fails to submit a report containing its recommendation to the Senate or the House of Commons, as the case may be, the Committee is deemed to have submitted a report recommending that the proposed user fee be approved.''.
7. Page 4, clause 7: Delete clause 7 and renumber the subsequent clauses accordingly.
8. Page 4, clause 8:
(a) Replace lines 21 and 22 with the following:
"before each House of Parliament, on or before December 31''.
(b) Add after line 27 the following:
"8.1 A review of the provisions and operation of this Act shall be completed by the President of the Treasury Board during the third year after this Act is assented to. The Minister shall cause a report of the results of the review to be laid before each House of Parliament on any of the first fifteen days on which that House is sitting after the report is completed.''.
9. Pages 4 and 5, clause 9: Delete clause 9 and renumber the subsequent clauses accordingly.
10. Page 5, clause 10: Delete clause 10 and renumber the subsequent clauses accordingly.
Respectfully submitted,
LOWELL MURRAY
Chair
The Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Meighen, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Government Notices of Motions
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool:
That Order No. 1 under Government Business, Bills, to resume debate on the motion for the second reading of Bill C-4, not be called before 5:30 p.m. today; and
That if the business of the Senate has been completed before that time, the Speaker shall suspend the sitting to the call of the Chair.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Tabling of Reports from Inter-Parliamentary Delegations
The Honourable Senator Cordy tabled the following:
Report of the Canadian Delegation of the Canadian NATO Parliamentary Association respecting its participation at the Annual Session of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly, held in Orlando, Florida from November 7 to 11, 2003.—Sessional Paper No. 3/37-64.
Presentation of Petitions
The Honourable Senator Munson presented petitions:
Of Residents of the Province of Ontario with respect to declaring Ottawa officially bilingual.
The Honourable Senator De Bané, P.C., presented petitions:
Of Residents of the Provinces of Quebec and Ontario with respect to declaring Ottawa officially bilingual.
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With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Chaput moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Gauthier:
That the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages be empowered, in accordance with Rule 95(3), to sit at 5:30 p.m. on Monday, March 1, 2004, even though the Senate may then be adjourned for a period exceeding one week.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Order No. 2 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Day, seconded by the Honourable Senator Christensen, for the second reading of Bill C-7, An Act to amend certain Acts of Canada, and to enact measures for implementing the Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention, in order to enhance public safety.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Kinsella for the Honourable Senator Oliver moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Order No. 4 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Motions
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Trenholme Counsell, seconded by the Honourable Senator Massicotte:
That the following Address be presented to Her Excellency the Governor General of Canada:
To Her Excellency the Right Honourable Adrienne Clarkson, Chancellor and Principal Companion of the Order of Canada, Chancellor and Commander of the Order of Military Merit, Chancellor and Commander of the Order of Merit of the Police Forces, Governor General and Commander-in-Chief of Canada.
MAY IT PLEASE YOUR EXCELLENCY:
We, Her Majesty's most loyal and dutiful subjects, the Senate of Canada in Parliament assembled, beg leave to offer our humble thanks to Your Excellency for the gracious Speech which Your Excellency has addressed to both Houses of Parliament.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on division.
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool:
That the Address be engrossed and presented to Her Excellency the Governor General by the Honourable the Speaker.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool:
That the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance be authorized to examine and report upon the expenditures set out in the Estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2005, with the exception of Parliament Vote 10.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool:
That the Standing Joint Committee on the Library of Parliament be authorized to examine the expenditures set out in Parliament Vote 10 of the Estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2005; and
That a message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House accordingly.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Orders No. 1 to 4 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Gauthier, seconded by the Honourable Senator Gill, for the second reading of Bill S-4, An Act to amend the Official Languages Act (promotion of English and French).
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Bill was then read the second time.
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool, that the Bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Kinsella, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, for the second reading of Bill S-7, An Act respecting the effective date of the representation order of 2003,
And on the motion of the Honourable Senator Kinsella, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, that the original question be now put.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator De Bané, P.C., that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 7 to 9 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Commons Public Bills
Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees
Resuming debate on the consideration of the Second Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights (clarification of its mandate), presented in the Senate on February 17, 2004.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Kinsella moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, that the Report be not adopted, but that the Order be discharged and the Report withdrawn.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Prud'homme, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Watt, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Other
Orders No. 4, 5 (inquiries), 28 and 40 (motions) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Gauthier, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fraser:
That the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament be authorized to examine, for the purposes of reporting by March 1, 2004, all Senate procedure related to the tabling of petitions in this Chamber in Parliament assembled, that a procedural clerk, having examined the form and content, certify the petitions in accordance with established standards and that follow-up be provided for in the Rules of the Senate,
And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Corbin, seconded by the Honourable Senator Maheu, that the motion be amended by deleting all the words after the word "That'' and substituting the following therefor:
"the history of the practice in both the Senate and the House of Commons relating to petitions other than petitions for private bills, as well as the customs, conventions and practices of the two Houses at Westminster, be tabled in the Senate and distributed to the honourable senators before being referred to the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament.''
After debate,
With leave of the Senate and pursuant to Rule 30, the motion in amendment was modified to read as follows:
That the motion be amended by deleting all the words after the word "That'' and substituting the following therefor:
"the history of the practice in both the Senate and the House of Commons relating to petitions other than petitions for private bills, as well as the customs, conventions and practices of the two Houses at Westminster, be prepared by the Table Officers and tabled in the Senate by the Speaker no later than October 15, 2004, and distributed to the honourable senators before being referred to the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament.''
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool, that further debate on the motion in amendment, as modified, be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Sibbeston, seconded by the Honourable Senator Adams:
That the Sixth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples, tabled in the Senate on October 30, 2003, during the Second Session of the 37th Parliament, be adopted and that, pursuant to Rule 131(2), the Senate request a complete and detailed response from the Government, with the Ministers of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, Justice, Human Resources and Skills Development, Social Development, Canadian Heritage, Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, Health, and Industry; and the Federal Interlocutor for Métis and Non-status Indians being identified as Ministers responsible for responding to the report.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Stratton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator LeBreton, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
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With leave,
The Senate reverted to Notices of Motions.
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Fraser moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Massicotte:
That the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications be empowered to sit at 3:30 p.m. on Tuesday, March 9, 2004, even though the Senate may then be sitting, and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator LeBreton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Keon:
That the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology be empowered, in accordance with Rule 95(3), to sit at 9:30 a.m. on Wednesday, March 3, 2004, even though the Senate may then be adjourned for a period exceeding one week.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Atkins:
That the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance be empowered to sit at 3:30 p.m. on Tuesday, March 9, 2004, even though the Senate may then be sitting, and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
OTHER BUSINESS
Other
Order No. 9 (motion) was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Atkins calling the attention of the Senate to the reasons for his decision to sit as a Progressive Conservative Senator.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Atkins for the Honourable Senator Spivak moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
MOTIONS
The Honourable Senator Day for the Honourable Senator Meighen moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Adams:
That the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence be authorized to undertake a study on:
(a) the services and benefits provided to veterans of war and peacekeeping missions in recognition of their services to Canada, in particular examining:
- access to priority beds for veterans in community hospitals;
- availability of alternative housing and enhanced home care;
- standardization of services throughout Canada;
- monitoring and accreditation of long term care facilities;
(b) the commemorative activities undertaken by the Department of Veterans Affairs to keep alive for all Canadians the memory of the veterans achievements and sacrifices; and
(c) the need for an updated Veterans Charter to outline the right to preventative care, family support, treatment and re-establishment benefits;
That the papers and evidence received and taken on the subject during the Second Session of the Thirty-seventh Parliament be referred to the Committee;
That the Committee report no later than June 30, 2004.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Kroft moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Moore:
That the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce be authorized to examine and report on issues dealing with charitable giving in Canada. In particular, the Committee shall be authorized to examine:
- the needs and opportunities of Canadians in relation to various aspects of Canadian life (such as health care, education, social and cultural programs and institutions, senior care, heritage preservation, scientific research and more) and the ability of Canadians to assist in these areas through charitable giving;
- current federal policy measures on charitable giving;
- new or enhanced federal policy measures, with an emphasis on tax policy, which may make charitable giving more affordable for Canadians at all income levels;
- the impact of current and proposed federal policy measures on charitable giving at the local, regional and national levels and across charities;
- the impact of current and proposed federal policy measures on the federal treasuries;
- any other related issues; and
That the Committee submit its final report no later than December 31, 2004.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
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With leave and notwithstanding the Order adopted by the Senate earlier this day,
The Senate reverted to Order No. 1 under Orders Of The Day, Government Business, Bills.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Austin, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., for the second reading of Bill C-4, An Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (Ethics Commissioner and Senate Ethics Officer) and other Acts in consequence.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on division.
The Bill was then read the second time, on division.
The Honourable Senator Austin, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., that the Bill be referred to the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on division.
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With leave,
The Senate reverted to Government Notices of Motions.
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool:
That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until Tuesday, March 9, 2004, at 2:00 p.m.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Report of the Aboriginal Healing Foundation for the year 2003.—Sessional Paper No. 3/37- 62.
Statutes of the Northwest Territories for July 2003, pursuant to the Northwest Territories Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. N-27, sbs. 21(1). —Sessional Paper No. 3/37-63.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 5:51 p.m. the Senate was continued until Tuesday, March 9, 2004, at 2:00 p.m.)
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Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry
The name of the Honourable Senator Lawson substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Day (February 26).
Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs
The name of the Honourable Senator Mercer substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Jaffer (February 26).