Journals of the Senate
54 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2005, Canada
Journals of the Senate
1st Session, 38th Parliament
Issue 54
Tuesday, May 3, 2005
2:00 p.m.
The Honourable Daniel Hays, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Banks, Biron, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carney, Carstairs, Chaput, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Cowan, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Downe, Dyck, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Fraser, Furey, Gill, Grafstein, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Kinsella, Lapointe, Lavigne, LeBreton, Léger, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Massicotte, McCoy, Mercer, Merchant, Milne, Mitchell, Moore, Munson, Nancy Ruth, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Peterson, Phalen, Plamondon, Poy, Prud'homme, Ringuette, Rivest, Robichaud, Rompkey, St. Germain, Sibbeston, Smith, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Tardif, Tkachuk, Trenholme Counsell, Watt
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Banks, Biron, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carney, Carstairs, Chaput, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Cowan, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Downe, Dyck, *Eggleton, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Fraser, Furey, Gill, Grafstein, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, *Keon, Kinsella, *Kirby, Lapointe, Lavigne, LeBreton, Léger, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Massicotte, McCoy, *Meighen, Mercer, Merchant, Milne, Mitchell, Moore, Munson, Nancy Ruth, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Peterson, Phalen, Plamondon, Poy, Prud'homme, Ringuette, Rivest, Robichaud, Rompkey, St. Germain, Sibbeston, Smith, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Tardif, Tkachuk, Trenholme Counsell, Watt
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some honourable senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees
The Honourable Senator Day, Deputy Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance, presented its ninth report (Bill C-33, A second Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 23, 2004, without amendment).
The Honourable Senator Day moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Banks, that the bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Tabling of Reports from Inter-Parliamentary Delegations
The Honourable Senator Grafstein tabled the following:
Report by a delegation of the Canadian Section of the Canada-United States Inter-Parliamentary Group respecting its attendance at Canada-U.S. Partnership Day and meetings with U.S. Legislators which took place in Washington, D.C. (U.S.A.), on March 1 and 2, 2005.—Sessional Paper No. 1/38-505.
The Honourable Senator Milne tabled the following:
Report of the Canadian Delegation of the Canada-Europe Parliamentary Association respecting its participation at the Meeting of the Standing Committee of Parliamentarians of the Arctic Region, held in Washington, D.C.(U.S.A.), from February 28 to March 2, 2005.—Sessional Paper No. 1/38-506.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
SPEAKER'S RULING
You will recall that on Tuesday, April 19, at the conclusion of Question Period during Delayed Answers, Senator Austin, the Leader of the Government took the opportunity to provide an oral response to a question that had been put to him some days previously by Senator Comeau. Immediately after, Senator St. Germain rose on a point of order to question the propriety of this proceeding, since it seemed to him to be an unwarranted extension of Question Period.
After several brief exchanges, I agreed to look into the practices related to Delayed Answers. In the interim, I have looked into this matter and am prepared to give my ruling on the point of order.
Delayed Answers has been a designated feature of the Rules of the Senate since 1991 and reference to it can now be found in Rule 23(8). This supplemented the practice of taking questions "as notice'' which was formalized in our Rules in June 1977. Evidence in the Debates, however, shows that both of these practices antedate their respective Rule changes.
The Rules of the Senate provide for two circumstances that might lead to a delayed answer. The first relates to Written Questions that Senators place on the Notice Paper as outlined in Rule 25.
The second occurs when an oral question cannot be answered during Question Period. Rule 24(3) allows a Senator to whom such a question is addressed to take the question "as notice''.
The practice that has developed over the years is that when Delayed Answers is called, the Deputy Leader of the Government will table written responses, a copy of which is also provided to the Senator who asked the question. It is clear, therefore, that Delayed Answers is not an extension of Question Period.
Research by the Journals Office has found one recent instance when a Senator requested that a written delayed answer be read aloud. This occurred in 2001. On March 22 of that year, Senator Corbin asked a question to Senator Carstairs, then the Leader of the Government, about a foreign affairs issue. The question was taken as notice. On April 25, when the Deputy Leader of the Government, Senator Robichaud, was prepared to table a written response, Senator Corbin requested that the answer be provided verbally. Senator Robichaud then read the text into the record.
What occurred April 19, 2005 does not fall squarely within this pattern. Senator Austin provided an oral answer to a question that had been asked originally on April 13 by Senator Comeau. In making his answer, to which there was no written version, Senator Austin also suggested that he was prepared to answer additional questions. On both counts this is a departure from the usual practice.
As Speaker I am bound to apply the rules that maintain recognized practices. With respect to Delayed Answers this means that, at a minimum, a written version of the response either to a previously unanswered oral question or to a written question standing on the Notice Paper must be prepared for tabling with a copy being given to the Senator who asked the question. In addition, upon request, it is possible for the written response to be read into the record. On no account, however, without the express leave of the Senate to suspend the rules, can the time provided for Delayed Answers become an occasion to extend Question Period.
Before concluding, I would like to draw to your attention a related practice that occurs with some frequency. The Leader of the Government has, on occasion, responded orally during Question Period to questions taken as notice from previous sittings. Both Senator Carstairs and Senator Austin have done this. Some recent examples that were found occurred on October 26 and December 15, 2004. As well, since this is done during Question Period, it would allow Senators to ask supplementary questions. It may be that Senator Austin was confusing the two practices when he acted the way he did resulting in Senator St. Germain's point of order. In any event, what happened April 19 was not in order. When responding to Delayed Answers, it is necessary to table a written response, even if a request is made to repeat it orally.
The Rules do not allow me, as Speaker, to change the record or to reverse what happened on that day. However, I would hope that the clarification I have made today will be kept in mind for the future.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Moore, seconded by the Honourable Senator Phalen, for the second reading of Bill S-28, An Act to amend the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act (student loan).
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., for the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Milne, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Forrestall, seconded by the Honourable Senator LeBreton, for the second reading of Bill S-26, An Act to provide for a national cancer strategy.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 5 to 10 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees
Consideration of the fifth report of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages (budget—study on the application of the official languages act—power to travel), presented in the Senate on April 21, 2005.
The Honourable Senator Corbin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Ferretti Barth, that the report be adopted.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Order No. 2 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the consideration of the second report of the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry, entitled: Value-added Agriculture in Canada, tabled in the Senate on December 14, 2004.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Pépin, that further debate on the consideration of the report be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Consideration of the fifth report of the Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples (budget—study on aboriginal communities and businesses in economic development activities) presented in the Senate on April 14, 2005.
The Honourable Senator Sibbeston moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Gill, that the report be adopted.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Order No. 5 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Other
Orders No. 58 (motion), 2 (inquiry) and 85 (motion) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Hervieux-Payette, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Smith, P.C.:
That the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament study and make the necessary recommendations on the advisability of amending Senate practice so that bills tabled during a parliamentary session can be reintroduced at the same procedural stage in the following parliamentary session, with a view to including in the Rules of the Senate, a procedure that already exists in the House of Commons and would increase the efficiency of our parliamentary process.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Stratton, for the Honourable Senator Oliver, moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator LeBreton, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 15 (inquiry), 82 (motion), 4, 12, 6 (inquiries), 78 and 69 (motions) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Downe calling the attention of the Senate to the benefits of the decentralization of federal departments, agencies and Crown corporations from the National Capital to the regions of Canada.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Chaput moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Andreychuk, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Ordered, That Order No 82 (motion) be again called.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Corbin, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cook:
That the Rules of the Senate be amended by replacing rule 32 with the following:
"32. (1) A Senator desiring to speak in the Senate shall rise in the place where that Senator normally sits and address the rest of the Senators.
(2) Any Senator who speaks in the Senate shall do so in one of the official languages.
(3) Notwithstanding subsection (2), a Senator desiring to address the Senate in Inuktitut shall so inform the Clerk of the Senate at least four hours before the start of that sitting of the Senate.
(4) The Clerk of the Senate shall make the necessary arrangements to provide interpretation of remarks made in Inuktitut into the two official languages.
(5) Remarks made in Inuktitut shall be published in the Debates of the Senate in the two official languages, with a note in the Journals of the Senate explaining that they were delivered in Inuktitut.''
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
INQUIRIES
The Honourable Senator Milne called the attention of the Senate to her recent visit to Indonesia and to Canada's efforts to help rebuild Southeast Asia after the tragic tsunami of December 26, 2004.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Plamondon moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Trenholme Counsell, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Report of the Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet to the Prime Minister on the Public Service of Canada for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2005, pursuant to the Public Service Employment Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. P-33, sbs. 47(2). —Sessional Paper No. 1/38-490.
Report on the administration of the Canada Petroleum Resources Act for the year 2004, pursuant to the Canada Petroleum Resources Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. 36 (2nd Supp.), s. 109. —Sessional Paper No. 1/38-491.
Report of Export Development Canada, together with the Auditor General's Report, for the year ended December 31, 2004, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 150(1)..—Sessional Paper No. 1/38- 492.
Report on Northern oil and gas for the year 2004, pursuant to the Canada Petroleum Resources Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. 36 (2nd Supp.), s. 109.—Sessional Paper No. 1/38-493.
Comprehensive Review Report of the Canada Small Business Financing Act for 1999-2004, pursuant to the Act, S.C. 1998, c. 36, ss. 19 and 20.—Sessional Paper No. 1/38-494.
Report of the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, together with the Auditor General's Report, for the year ended December 31, 2004, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 150(1).—Sessional Paper No. 1/38-495.
Report of the Canadian Tourism Commission, together with the Auditor General's Report, for the year ended December 31, 2004, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 150(1).—Sessional Paper No. 1/38-496.
Statutes of the Northwest Territories for December 2004, pursuant to the Northwest Territories Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. N-27, sbs. 21(1).—Sessional Paper No. 1/38-497.
Federal-Provincial Crop Insurance Agreements with the provinces of British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, Newfoundland and Labrador and with the Yukon Territory, pursuant to the Farm Income Protection Act, S.C. 1991, c. 22, sbs. 6(1).—Sessional Paper No. 1/38-498.
Report of the Chicken Farmers of Canada, together with the Auditors' Report, for the year ended December 31, 2004, pursuant to the Farm Products Marketing Agencies Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-4, s. 30.—Sessional Paper No. 1/38- 499.
Report of the Canadian Egg Marketing Agency, together with the Auditors' Report, for the year ended December 31, 2004, pursuant to the Farm Products Marketing Agencies Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-4, s. 30.—Sessional Paper No. 1/ 38-500.
Report of the Canadian Turkey Marketing Agency, together with the Auditors' Report, for the year ended December 31, 2004, pursuant to the Farm Products Marketing Agencies Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-4, s. 30.—Sessional Paper No. 1/38-501.
Report of the Canadian Broiler Hatching Egg Marketing Agency, together with the Auditors' Report, for the year ended December 31, 2004, pursuant to the Farm Products Marketing Agencies Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-4, s. 30.—Sessional Paper No. 1/38-502.
Summaries of the Corporate Plan for the period 2005-2006 to 2009-2010 and of the Operating and Capital Budgets for 2005-2006 of Farm Credit Canada, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).—Sessional Paper No. 1/38-503.
Report of the Roosevelt Campobello International Park Commission, together with the Auditors' Report, for the year ended December 31, 2004, pursuant to the Roosevelt Campobello International Park Commission Act, S.C. 1964- 65, c. 19, s. 7. —Sessional Paper No. 1/38-504.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 5:01 p.m. the Senate was continued until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow.)
Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry
The name of the Honourable Senator Hubley substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Mitchell (April 21).
Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce
The names of the Honourable Senators Fitzpatrick and Hervieux-Payette substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Chaput and Eggleton (April 21).
Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans
The name of the Honourable Senator Merchant substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Peterson (April 21).
Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs
The name of the Honourable Senator Mercer substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Downe (April 21).
Standing Senate Committee on National Finance
The name of the Honourable Senator Harb substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Bryden (April 21).
The name of the Honourable Senator Rompkey substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Harb (May 2).
Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament
The name of the Honourable Senator Fraser substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Carstairs (April 21).
The name of the Honourable Senator Eggleton added to the membership (April 27).
The names of the Honourable Senators Carstairs and Mitchell, substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Fraser and Eggleton (May 2).
Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights
The name of the Honourable Senator Baker substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Pépin (April 27).
The names of the Honourable Senators Munson and Christensen substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Losier-Cool and Baker (April 28).
The names of the Honourable Senators Losier-Cool and Pépin substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Munson and Christensen (May 3).
Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence
The name of the Honourable Senator Oliver substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Forrestall (April 28).
The name of the Honourable Senator Mercer substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Banks (May 2).
The names of the Honourable Senators Banks and Forrestall substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Mercer and Oliver (May 3).