Journals of the Senate
54 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2005, Canada
Journals of the Senate
1st Session, 38th Parliament
Issue 84
Tuesday, July 19, 2005
2:00 p.m.
The Honourable Daniel Hays, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Banks, Biron, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Chaput, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Dallaire, Di Nino, Doody, Downe, Dyck, Eggleton, Eyton, Fairbairn, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Furey, Gill, Grafstein, Gustafson, Harb, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Lapointe, Lavigne, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Meighen, Mercer, Merchant, Milne, Mitchell, Moore, Munson, Murray, Nancy Ruth, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Peterson, Phalen, Plamondon, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Ringuette, Robichaud, Rompkey, St. Germain, Sibbeston, Smith, Spivak, Stratton, Tardif, Tkachuk, Trenholme Counsell, Watt
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Banks, Biron, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Chaput, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Dallaire, *De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Downe, Dyck, Eggleton, Eyton, Fairbairn, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Furey, Gill, Grafstein, Gustafson, Harb, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Lapointe, Lavigne, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Meighen, Mercer, Merchant, Milne, Mitchell, Moore, Munson, Murray, Nancy Ruth, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Peterson, Phalen, Plamondon, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Ringuette, Robichaud, Rompkey, St. Germain, Sibbeston, Smith, Spivak, *Stollery, Stratton, Tardif, Tkachuk, Trenholme Counsell, Watt
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some honourable senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Presentation of Petitions
The Honourable Senator Di Nino presented petitions:
Of Residents of the province of Ontario concerning marriage.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Third reading of Bill C-2, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (protection of children and other vulnerable persons) and the Canada Evidence Act.
The Honourable Senator Pearson moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Poy, that the bill be read the third time.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The bill was then read the third time and passed.
Ordered, That a message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate has passed this bill, without amendment.
Third reading of Bill C-23, An Act to establish the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development and to amend and repeal certain related Acts.
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool, that the bill be read the third time.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Stratton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator LeBreton, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Third reading of Bill C-22, An Act to establish the Department of Social Development and to amend and repeal certain related Acts.
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool, that the bill be read the third time.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Stratton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator LeBreton, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Third reading of Bill C-38, An Act respecting certain aspects of legal capacity for marriage for civil purposes.
The Honourable Senator Joyal, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Callbeck, that the bill be read the third time.
After debate,
In amendment, the Honourable Senator St. Germain, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Tkachuk, that Bill C-38 be not now read a third time, but that it be read a third time this day six months hence.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Angus, Buchanan, Cochrane, Comeau, Cools, Di Nino, Eyton, Forrestall, Gustafson, Kelleher, Kinsella, LeBreton, Meighen, Oliver, Plamondon, Prud'homme, St. Germain, Stratton, Tkachuk—19
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Banks, Biron, Bryden, Callbeck, Chaput, Christensen, Cook, Cordy, Dallaire, Downe, Dyck, Eggleton, Fairbairn, Fitzpatrick, Furey, Gill, Grafstein, Harb, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kenny, Lapointe, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Mercer, Merchant, Milne, Mitchell, Moore, Munson, Pearson, Pépin, Peterson, Phalen, Poulin, Poy, Ringuette, Robichaud, Rompkey, Sibbeston, Smith, Spivak, Tardif, Trenholme Counsell, Watt—52
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Nil
The Senate resumed debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Joyal, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Callbeck, for the third reading of Bill C-38.
After debate,
In amendment, the Honourable Senator Kinsella moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, that Bill C- 38 be not now read a third time but that it be amended, on page 2,
(a) by replacing line 39 with the following:
"2. Parliament has recognized and continues to recognize the traditional marriage of a man and a woman.
3. Notwithstanding section 2, marriage, for civil purposes, is the lawful''; and
(b) by renumbering clauses 3 to 15 as clauses 4 to 18, and all cross references accordingly.
After debate,
A point of order was raised with respect to the use of a list of speakers in debate.
After debate,
The Speaker reserved his decision.
The Senate resumed debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Joyal, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Callbeck, for the third reading of Bill C-38;
And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Kinsella, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, that Bill C-38 be not now read a third time but that it be amended, on page 2,
(a) by replacing line 39 with the following:
"2. Parliament has recognized and continues to recognize the traditional marriage of a man and a woman.
3. Notwithstanding section 2, marriage, for civil purposes, is the lawful''; and
(b) by renumbering clauses 3 to 15 as clauses 4 to 18, and all cross references accordingly.
After debate,
In amendment, the Honourable Senator Banks moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Corbin, that the motion in amendment be amended by:
(a) deleting the new clause 2 in the proposed amendment and,
(b) deleting the new clause 3 in the proposed amendment and substituting therefore:
"3. Notwithstanding section 2, Parliament has recognized and continues to recognize the traditional marriage of a woman and a man''; and,
(c) by renumbering clauses 3 to 15 as clauses 4 to 16, and all cross references accordingly.
After debate,
The question being put on the subamendment, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Angus, Atkins, Banks, Buchanan, Cochrane, Comeau, Cools, Corbin, Di Nino, Eyton, Forrestall, Gustafson, Kelleher, Keon, Kinsella, LeBreton, Meighen, Oliver, Phalen, Plamondon, Sibbeston, St. Germain, Stratton, Tkachuk—24
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Austin, Bacon, Baker, Biron, Bryden, Callbeck, Chaput, Christensen, Cook, Cordy, Dallaire, Downe, Dyck, Eggleton, Fairbairn, Fitzpatrick, Furey, Gill, Grafstein, Harb, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kenny, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Mercer, Milne, Mitchell, Munson, Nancy Ruth, Pearson, Pépin, Peterson, Poulin, Poy, Ringuette, Robichaud, Rompkey, Smith, Spivak, Tardif, Trenholme Counsell, Watt—46
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Hervieux-Payette, Moore, Prud'homme—3
The question being put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Kinsella, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, that Bill C-38 be not now read a third time but that it be amended, on page 2,
(a) by replacing line 39 with the following:
"2. Parliament has recognized and continues to recognize the traditional marriage of a man and a woman.
3. Notwithstanding section 2, marriage, for civil purposes, is the lawful''; and
(b) by renumbering clauses 3 to 15 as clauses 4 to 18, and all cross references accordingly.
The motion in amendment was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Angus, Atkins, Buchanan, Cochrane, Comeau, Cools, Corbin, Di Nino, Eyton, Forrestall, Gustafson, Hervieux-Payette, Kelleher, Keon, Kinsella, LeBreton, Meighen, Oliver, Phalen, Plamondon, Sibbeston, St. Germain, Stratton, Tkachuk—24
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Austin, Bacon, Baker, Biron, Bryden, Callbeck, Chaput, Christensen, Cook, Cordy, Dallaire, Downe, Dyck, Eggleton, Fairbairn, Fitzpatrick, Furey, Gill, Grafstein, Harb, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kenny, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Mercer, Milne, Mitchell, Munson, Nancy Ruth, Pearson, Pépin, Peterson, Poulin, Poy, Ringuette, Robichaud, Rompkey, Smith, Spivak, Tardif, Trenholme Counsell, Watt—46
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Banks, Merchant, Moore, Prud'homme—4
The Senate resumed debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Joyal, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Callbeck, for the third reading of Bill C-38, An Act respecting certain aspects of legal capacity for marriage for civil purposes.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Biron, Bryden, Callbeck, Chaput, Christensen, Cook, Cordy, Dallaire, Downe, Dyck, Eggleton, Fairbairn, Fitzpatrick, Furey, Grafstein, Harb, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kenny, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Meighen, Mercer, Milne, Mitchell, Munson, Nancy Ruth, Pearson, Pépin, Peterson, Poulin, Poy, Prud'homme, Ringuette, Robichaud, Rompkey, Smith, Spivak, Tardif, Trenholme Counsell—47
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Angus, Banks, Buchanan, Cochrane, Comeau, Cools, Di Nino, Eyton, Forrestall, Gustafson, Hervieux-Payette, Kelleher, Keon, Kinsella, Merchant, Phalen, Plamondon, Sibbeston, St. Germain, Stratton, Tkachuk—21
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Corbin, LeBreton, Moore—3
Accordingly, Bill C-38 was then read the third time and passed.
Ordered, That a message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate has passed this bill, without amendment.
Third reading of Bill C-48, An Act to authorize the Minister of Finance to make certain payments.
The Honourable Senator Eggleton, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Jaffer, that the bill be read the third time.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Tkachuk moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator LeBreton, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Ordered, That all remaining items on the Order Paper and Notice Paper be postponed until the next sitting.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 11:38 p.m. the Senate was continued until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow.)
Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs
The name of the Honourable Senator Andreychuk substituted for that of the Honourable Senator St. Germain (July 18).
Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology
The name of the Honourable Senator Johnson substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Stratton (July 18).