The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, before we proceed, I would
ask senators to rise and observe one minute of silence in memory of Master
Corporal Darrell Jason Priede and Corporal Christopher Deliva.
Hon. Consiglio Di Nino: Honourable senators, 18 years ago, on June 4,
1989, the events in Tiananmen Square shocked the world. The killing of hundreds
of unarmed civilians, whose only crime was to gather at a peaceful protest,
stands out as one of the worst examples of brutality inflicted by a government
on its own citizens.
On the anniversary of this atrocity, I stand in solidarity with the thousands
of Chinese people who participated in the Tiananmen Square demonstrations, and
with the millions of citizens who continue to be denied their rights and
freedoms for which their fellow countrymen perished.
According to Human Rights Watch, 143 participants involved in the
demonstrations are still languishing in prison. To date, honourable senators,
Beijing has failed to account for the massacre or even allow debate over it.
Instead, it has engaged in the harassment of survivors, their families and those
who dare challenge the official whitewash of the events of that fateful summer.
Given the remarkable economic transformation that has taken place in China,
it would be easy to believe that all other things have changed as well.
Unfortunately, this is not the case. While democracy has emerged in other Asian
countries, freedom of expression, multi-party elections and the ability to
dissent are no more tolerated today in China than they were in 1989. It is a
troubling reality, a reality that demonstrates how the tools of capitalism can
be used to perpetuate government oppression under the veil of economic progress
Honourable senators, 2008 will be an Olympic year for Beijing. If we really
believe in the concept of international human rights, Canada and the rest of the
world community should hold the Chinese government to their promise of improving
human rights and freedoms. The sacrifice of so many in Tiananmen Square should
not be one that was made in vain.
Hon. Yoine Goldstein: Honourable senators, this year marks the
fiftieth anniversary of Les Grands Ballets canadiens de Montréal, and today
marks the retirement of Anik Bissonnette, a star among stars, a dancer described
by the artistic director of the National Ballet of Canada, Karen Kain, as one of
the most exquisite and accomplished dancers of all times.
Anik has become a cultural icon in Quebec, within and beyond dance circles.
She has danced leading roles in all of the great classics and has worked with
many of today's best choreographers. She has been awarded both the titles of
Officer of the Order of Canada and Chevalier de l'Ordre du Québec.
For 18 years, Anik has been lighting up the stage with her legendary grace.
Les Grands Ballets and Anik Bissonnette, individually and together, have
continued to grow, flourish, and especially, to win over the hearts and minds of
their audiences everywhere they have set foot on the stage.
In the past several years, Les Grands Ballets has expanded its repertoire
through commissioned original works by young, up-and-coming choreographers to
the delight of audiences throughout Canada, the United States and Europe. It is
no exaggeration to say that this so-called "small town" ballet company has
become a world-class cultural icon under the guidance of its outstanding
artistic director, Gradimir Pankov.
Please join me, honourable senators, in congratulating Les Grands Ballets on
achieving 50 successful years of bringing exciting, entertaining and enriching
cultural performances to Quebec, Canada and many other countries throughout the
world, and in wishing Anik Bissonnette well on her retirement and success in all
her future endeavours, which we can all be assured will be stellar.
Hon. Lowell Murray: Honourable senators, a while ago, I was asked if I
would draw your attention to the fact that June is ALS Awareness Month in
Canada. ALS — amyotrophic lateral sclerosis — is also known as Lou Gehrig's
disease, after the renowned New York Yankee baseball player who died of it.
I am honoured to have been asked to do this. Those of our fellow human beings
— and there are several thousand of them in Canada — who are afflicted with this
disease suffer uniquely. Not for them the balm of unawareness, of mental and
physical capacities ebbing out together gradually and painlessly. With ALS, the
mind and senses remain unimpaired, perhaps even more alert, while all physical
autonomy is lost. The courage of these people in facing every day's existence is
quite phenomenal; so too is that of their families and loved ones.
The ALS Society of Canada is a non-profit organization dependent on
volunteers and devoted exclusively to fighting this disease. This society is
dedicated to funding medical research and improving the quality of life of
Canadians with ALS.
There is no effective treatment for ALS and no known cure. Approximately 80
per cent of people diagnosed with ALS die within two years.
Every year, the staff and volunteers of the ALS Society of Canada organize
fundraising activities, such as the Walk for ALS, to create awareness about the
disease and to raise money to fund research.
Let us salute the generosity and compassion of these volunteers and express
our solidarity in every possible way with those whose cruel fate it is to be
quite alive while dying of ALS.
Hon. Maria Chaput: Honourable senators, from June 1 to 3, 2007, the
University of Ottawa hosted the Summit of Francophone and Acadian Communities of
Canada. I was very proud to participate in the summit and to spend time with
this community, which is so close to my heart. The summit's theme was "Join
forces and take action." This gathering provided an opportunity for all 760
participants to discuss priority issues, come up with solutions and take part in
the final phase of a dialogue on their future that has been going on for two
At the end of the summit, Canada's francophone and Acadian leaders committed
to turning that vision into action. I urge the government to acknowledge the
intensive consultation that took place, to work with our leaders starting now,
and to accept the shared goals and the priority issues they focused on during
the Summit of Francophone and Acadian Communities.
Despite all this, in her speech Wednesday evening, the Minister of Official
Languages said that, this fall, she would undertake extensive consultations on
the government's overall vision of official languages and linguistic duality in
order to create a roadmap. That would be discouraging and even insulting to all
francophones and Acadians in Canada who have just completed this process.
I hope that the government in power will recognize the work done during this
summit as the ultimate consultation initiative involving all francophone and
Acadian stakeholders and that this new shared vision supported by all leaders
will also receive the support of the government in power.
I would like to congratulate the Fédération des communautés francophones et
acadiennes du Canada, the members of the steering committee and the resource
people on this excellent initiative. I would also like to thank all of the
volunteers who supported them.
Hon. Lillian Eva Dyck: Honourable senators, the Royal Society of
Canada held a conference entitled "Rooms of Their Own" in Edmonton, May 2-4. I
had the honour of being one of the plenary speakers. My talk addressed the
under-representation of women in university faculty positions in science and
With the large numbers of male faculty retiring now and in the next few
years, it is important to ensure that women are given a fair chance in the
hiring process at universities. I refer to the report of the National Academy of
Sciences, Beyond Bias and Barriers: Fulfilling the Potential of Women in
Academic Science and Engineering. I shall list three key findings from this
report: First, women are very likely to face discrimination in every field of
science and engineering; second, evaluation criteria contain arbitrary and
subjective components that disadvantage women — women faculty on average are
paid less, are promoted more slowly, receive fewer honours and hold fewer
leadership positions than men — and third, although most scientists and
engineers believe they are objective and intend to be fair, research shows that
they, like most people, are biased in their evaluations.
In another report, leading brain researcher Baroness Greenfield found that
many women in science were bullied. Honourable senators, that certainly was my
experience. Like many, I was not sure how to cope with the bullying, but as I
thought of my mother my inner strength and determination returned. My mother
overcame blatant racism and survived residential school, so there was no way
that I was going to let some man push me out of my job simply because I was a
Honourable senators, women have a rightful place in society and in the
university academy and ought to be accepted with respect and gender equality. We
should be free to say and do what we want without feeling constrained by gender
roles or rules, and without fear of being punished for daring to be the women we
are meant to be. We are meant to be women who walk tall, walk proud, and walk
Honourable senators, at the conference, I gave a PowerPoint presentation
which had pictures of powerful Aboriginal women who are models of beauty and
power. You will have to use your imaginations to visualize these two examples,
which I will share with you today. My first example was Bear Woman, who has the
medicine of healing and strength; and the second example was of our ancestral
mothers and grandmothers who walked before us with the medicine of
Honourable senators, women in science and engineering, and all women, should
be respected and valued in their homes, their communities and in their
workplaces so that they can walk tall, walk proud and walk strong.
Hon. Donald H. Oliver, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Legal
and Constitutional Affairs, presented the following report:
Tuesday, June 5, 2007
The Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs has the
honour to present its
Your Committee, to which was referred Bill C-31, An Act to amend the Canada
Elections Act and the Public Service Employment Act, has, in obedience to the
Order of Reference of Wednesday, March 21, 2007, examined the said Bill and
now reports the same with the following amendments:
1. Title: Delete the words:
"and the Public Service Employment Act".
2. Page 2, clause 5: Delete from line 36 the words:
"date of birth".
3. Page 6, clause 13:
(a) Delete on lines 14 and 15 the words:
"address and date of birth"; and
(b) Add on line 14, after the word "name" the words:
4. Page 7, clause 18: Replace line 35 with the following:
"does not indicate an elector's sex or date of birth".
5. Page 13, clause 28: Replace lines 11 to 16 of the French text
with the following:
"i.1) sur demande, et à intervalles minimaux de trente minutes,
fournit aux représentants des candidats, sur le formulaire prescrit et selon
les directives du directeur général des élections, l'identité des électeurs
ayant exercé leur droit de vote le jour du scrutin à l'exclusion de celle
des électeurs s'étant inscrit le jour même;
i.2) sur demande, après la fermeture du bureau de vote par
anticipation, fournit aux représentants des candidats, sur le formulaire
prescrit et selon les directives du directeur général des élections,
l'identité des électeurs ayant exercé leur droit de vote ce jour-là, à
l'exclusion de celle des électeurs s'étant inscrit le jour même;".
6. Page 13, clause 28: Replace lines 12 to 17 with the following:
"(i.1) on request, and at intervals of no less than 30 minutes,
provide to a candidate's representative, on the prescribed form and as
directed by the Chief Electoral Officer, the identity of every elector who
has exercised his or her right to vote on polling day, excluding that of
electors who registered on that day;
(i.2) on request, after the close of the advance polling station,
provide to a candidate's representative, on the prescribed form and as
directed by the Chief Electoral Officer, the identity of every elector who
has exercised his or her right to vote on that day excluding that of
electors who registered on that day; and".
7. Delete clause 40, page 16.
8. Delete clause 41, page 17.
9. Page 17, clause 42: Replace line 8 with the following:
"42. (1) Despite subsection 554(1) of the Canada Elections Act,
sections 3, 6, 8 and 9, subsection".
10. Page 17, clause 42: Replace line 9 with the following:
"10(2), sections 11, 12, 14 to 16, 20 to 27, 28 (f), (g)
(h) and (i), 29 to 33 and".
11. Page 17, clause 42: Replace line 23 with the following:
"17 to 19, 28 (i.1) and (i.2) and 34 come into force
DONALD H. OLIVER
The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, when shall the report be
taken into consideration?
On motion of Senator Oliver, report placed on the Orders of the Day for
consideration at the next sitting of the Senate.
Hon. David P. Smith, Chair of the Special Senate Committee on the
Anti-terrorism Act, presented the following report:
Tuesday, June 5, 2007
The Special Senate Committee on the Anti-terrorism Act has the honour to
Your Committee, to which was referred Bill C-12, An Act to provide for
emergency management and to amend and repeal certain Acts, has, in obedience
to the Order of Reference of Wednesday, March 28, 2007, examined the said Bill
and now reports the same without amendment.
DAVID P. SMITH
The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, when shall this bill be
read the third time?
On motion of Senator Meighen, bill placed on the Orders of the Day for third
reading at the next sitting of the Senate.
The Hon. the Speaker informed the Senate that a message has been
received from the House of Commons with Bill C-35, to amend the Criminal Code
(reverse onus in bail hearings for firearm-related offences).
Bill read first time.
The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, when shall this bill be
read the second time?
On motion of Senator Comeau, bill place on the Orders of the Day for second
reading two days hence.
Hon. Jerahmiel S. Grafstein: Honourable senators, I have the honour to
table in the Senate, in both official languages, the report of the Canadian
delegation of the Canada-United States Inter-Parliamentary Group respecting its
participation at the National Governors Association Winter Meeting, Innovation
America, Washington, D.C., February 24 to 27, 2007.
Hon. Anne C. Cools: Honourable senators, pursuant to rule 57(1)(b), I
give notice that I shall move:
That the following address be presented to Her Excellency the Governor
General of Canada:
To Her Excellency the Right Honourable Michaëlle Jean, Chancellor and
Principal Companion of the Order of Canada, Chancellor and Commander of the
Order of Military Merit, Governor General and Commander-in-Chief of Canada.
May it Please Your Excellency:
We, Her Majesty's most loyal and dutiful subjects, the Senate of Canada in
Parliament assembled, beg leave humbly to represent to Her Excellency our just
anxiety for the constitutional condition of our country, which condition is
needing Her Excellency's intervention to provide Her Majesty's Canadian
subjects with proper and full representation in the Senate of Canada, and
thereby to avert the constitutional crisis arising from the Prime Minister's
refusal to perform his sworn constitutional duty of advising Her Excellency in
the exercise of Her lawful constitutional duties, in particular, Her
Excellency's vice-regal duty in regard to Her Majesty Queen Victoria's
command which Her Majesty enacted as the British North America Act, 1867,
Section 32, in the most carefully chosen words, "When a Vacancy happens in
the Senate by Resignation, Death, or otherwise, the Governor General shall by
Summons to a fit and qualified Person fill the Vacancy.", which words "shall
. . . fill" are clear and unambiguous in their constitutional construction,
meaning, and interpretation, and are not open to any doubt whatsoever;
That it appears to your faithful subjects and senators that the Prime
Minister has claimed a power unknown to our Constitution and to our law, being
the false power of refusal to advise the Governor General, and, that the Prime
Minister's public refusal to advise the Governor General on qualified persons
for appointment to the Senate is a power which is not only false, but which is
also wholly repugnant to the Constitution, because the exercise of such a
power by a prime minister has the effect of making the Governor General into a
felon and outlaw of the Constitution, and that this would be a most terrible
infamy, not countenanced by the Constitution, of which Her Majesty is the
source of all power and authority, and that such infamy would be a most
terrible constitutional crisis;
That it appears to your faithful subjects and senators that prime ministers
have no constitutional power whatsoever to compel or to cause the Governor
General of Canada to transgress the law, and that confronted with such
compulsion and provocation from any prime minister, the Governor General's
proper constitutional duty is to refuse to acquiesce to that prime minister,
and to decline to transgress the law, therein to uphold the Constitution, the
law, and the rights of Canadians to responsible government and a lawfully
abiding prime minister;
We therefore humbly pray Your Excellency, that, in conformity with the law
and the B.N.A. Act, 1867, Section 32., Your Excellency, the Head of
Parliament, the high representative of the people of Canada and the actuating
power in the Constitution, will be pleased to exercise her lawful and
constitutional duties, and will be pleased to summon qualified persons to the
Senate of Canada to fill the many and growing vacancies, thereby to provide
Her Majesty's Canadian subjects with proper representation in the Senate and
thereby also to provide for the proper operation of the Parliament of Canada,
for peace order and good government, and for the amelioration of the
constitutional condition of the country.
Hon. A. Raynell Andreychuk: Honourable senators, I give notice that at
the next of the Senate, I will move:
That the papers and evidence received by the Standing Senate Committee on
Legal and Constitutional Affairs during its study of Bill S-21, an act to
amend the Criminal Code (protection of children) during the first session of
the Thirty-eighth Parliament be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on
Human Rights for the purpose of its study on Bill S-207, to amend the Criminal
Code (protection of children.)
Hon. Donald H. Oliver: Honourable senators, I give notice that at the
next sitting of the Senate, I will move:
That, notwithstanding the Order of the Senate adopted on Thursday, December
7, 2006, the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs,
which was authorized to examine and report on the benefits and results that
have been achieved through the Court Challenges Program, be empowered to
extend the date of presenting its final report from June 30, 2007 to December
Hon. Donald H. Oliver: Honourable senators, I give notice that at the
next sitting of the Senate, I shall move:
That, notwithstanding the Order of the Senate adopted on Thursday, June
1st, 2006, the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs,
which was authorized to examine and report on the implications of including,
in legislation, non-derogation clauses relating to existing Aboriginal and
treaty rights of the Aboriginal peoples of Canada under s.35 of the
Constitution Act, 1982; be empowered to extend the date of presenting its
final report from June 30, 2007 to December 31, 2007.
Hon. Consiglio Di Nino: Honourable senators, I give notice that, at
the next sitting of the Senate, I will move:
That the twelfth report of the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs
and International Trade entitled The Evacuation of Canadians from Lebanon
in July 2006: Implications for the Government of Canada, tabled in the
Senate on May 31, 2007, be adopted and that, pursuant to Rule 131(2), the
Senate request a complete and detailed response from the government, with the
Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration and
the Minister of National Defence being identified as Ministers responsible for
responding to the report.
Hon. Céline Hervieux-Payette (Leader of the Opposition): My question
is for the Leader of the Government in the Senate. Late last week, the
Federation of Canadian Municipalities unanimously passed an emergency resolution
calling on the government to immediately distribute the money promised for
festivals in the most recent budget. Montreal Mayor Gérald Tremblay also
recently asked the government to release the promised funding without delay to
help these events succeed.
In my constituency, the mayor of Ville-Marie, Benoît Labonté, reminds us that
for every dollar the federal government invests in festivals, it gets nine
dollars back; that festivals in Montreal create 12,000 jobs, most of which are
seasonal; and that festivals attract seven million visitors to the Montreal area
and generate $200 million in economic spinoffs.
When will this government stop stalling the organizations and start paying
out the promised money?
Hon. Marjory LeBreton (Leader of the Government and Secretary of State
(Seniors)): I thank the honourable senator for the question. In 2007-08,
Canadian Heritage, through the Arts Presentation program, will continue to
support many of these local events. I entirely agree that festivals are very
valuable not only to the communities in which they are held, but also to people
visiting the communities. The Government of Canada is providing over $20 million
to support events across the country in 2007-08.
Minister Oda mentioned in the other place yesterday that many festivals in
Montreal will receive between $300,000 and $1.2 million from the government this
Senator Hervieux-Payette: It will not have escaped the Leader of the
Government in the Senate that her government's budget included $60 million over
two years for festivals, or $30 million a year. Minister Oda said:
Festivals inside and outside Quebec this summer simply shouldn't have
counted on getting money from the new program in the first place.
Are we to understand that her government's promises are meaningless and that
the budget passed in the other place is not binding on the government, unless
this money is reserved strictly for the Winterlude festival in Ottawa, which
will be held in February? We are talking about festivals that are taking place
this summer in Montreal and that have clear benefits, and I am certain the
minister for the Montreal area also hopes these festivals will be very
Senator LeBreton: Honourable senators, I think that the Leader of the
Opposition has misunderstood. In Budget 2007 we committed to set up a new
program to assist local events celebrating arts, culture and heritage with
funding of $60 million over two years. This is new funding and will not affect
existing programs or funds that are already in place for existing programs.
Senator Hervieux-Payette: I would quite simply like the Leader of the
Government in the Senate to tell us — because we also must explain how our
government works — at what point this budget, which has been before the other
place for months and was expected to provide funding for events for the 2007-08
fiscal year, will release the $30 million and how long will this government take
to put these criteria in place?
It seems that we could perhaps help the federal government, and even Raymond
Bachand, Quebec's Minister of Economic Development, Innovation and Export Trade,
has said that he is ready to help the current government establish criteria for
Senator LeBreton: Honourable senators, I answered similar questions on
this matter last week. As I explained then, the $60 million in new funding in no
way affects money currently flowing to existing programs for festivals and
cultural events across the country.
As the minister explained, the government is being very judicious in how this
new funding of $60 million will be allocated. There will be a proper
applications process for the various festivals and cultural groups that want to
access this funding.
Since it is new funding and does not affect funding for the existing summer
season, the government wants to be very careful that the organizations that will
be applying for this funding are worthy organizations, that they meet a certain
criteria because, as I mentioned a few days ago in this place, we do not want a
situation to develop again whereby funding ends up in places it was not intended
to end up.
Hon. Francis Fox: Honourable senators, my question is a follow-up to
that of the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate. After yesterday's press
conference by the mayors of Montreal, Ville-Marie and representatives of the
Regroupement des événements majeurs internationaux, (REMI), and the Coalition
des grands événements de Montreal, the mayor of Montreal made a statement. He
was quoted this morning in the Montreal Gazette by two reputable
journalists, Jan Ravensbergen and Elizabeth Thompson.
"I talked with" Michael Fortier. . . "again this morning" to try to
unblock the money. . . . Fortier told Tremblay he was "working very hard to
get the answers we need today," . . .
I assume that Senator Fortier believes that this $60 million could be
disbursed right now and that there is no reason to wait.
Could the Leader of the Government in the Senate tell us if Mr. Fortier kept
his promise to speak to Ms. Oda? Did he do his best "today," as he stated
yesterday in his conversation with Mayor Tremblay?
Senator LeBreton: Honourable senators, not only did he do that, but
Minister Oda actually answered yesterday when she made it clear that festivals
in Montreal will receive between $300,000 and $1.2 million from the government
this summer. I will be happy to obtain from the minister for the honourable
senator the information to back up these figures.
Senator Fox: I want to thank the minister for her response, even
though she did not answer the question.
There was a time when Marcel Masse, another minister in the Mulroney
government, toured the country promising subsidies and reimbursements for
culture when he did not really have the budget to do so, but the government
never abandoned arts and culture. Now we have Minister Oda, who is touring the
country talking about her budget but refusing to spend it. You will agree that
these two situations are somewhat ironic.
Let us come back to yesterday's press conference. The spokesperson for the
Canadian Festivals Coalition and director general of the Rassemblement québécois
des événements majeurs internationaux confirmed in La Presse that a
lobbyist had been hired by the festivals under a contract worth between $250,000
and $300,000. He thinks the lobbyist played a key role in the announcement of
the new annual $30 million program for the next two years.
Do these people need to hire a second lobbyist to pay out the money the first
lobbyist obtained by convincing the current government? Would it not be better,
Madam Minister, to listen to Senator Fortier, who, in the words of Montreal's
mayor, said he would do everything he could to unblock the money for this
program? Would it not be better to listen to festival organizers, town mayors
across Canada and some provincial governments? In short, would it not be better
to listen to these people instead of telling us over and over that a program
already exists? We are talking about the new $60 million program, not the
Senator LeBreton: Honourable senators, I cannot do anything but repeat
what I have just said. In terms of the money that has been flowing to festivals
in Montreal and the fact that these groups would hire a lobbyist, I have not had
the opportunity to read the article so I will not comment on it.
With regard to the additional $60 million, as I said last week, I believe the
honourable senator would agree that this is additional money and the government
wants to ensure that this money flows to organizations that are deserving, that
contribute to our arts and cultural life in this country, and that it does not
end up in the hands of people where it was not intended to end up.
Hon. Sharon Carstairs: Honourable senators, my question is for the
Minister of Public Works and Government Services as part of my ongoing strategy
so that he will not feel lonely, unloved or unappreciated in this place.
Last Thursday, in reply to my question with respect to a poll of the
ethnocultural communities of the government's five priorities — which failed to
meet Treasury Board guidelines because it was not released until the government
was forced to do so by the media — Senator Fortier responded that he welcomed
the information and that I should provide him with additional information polls
that had failed to meet this guideline. I welcome that initiative.
Will the minister go one step further and review the mandate of Mr. Paillé
and allow him to investigate not only this polling contract, but also all other
polling contracts that have been undertaken since this government took office?
Hon. Michael Fortier (Minister of Public Works and Government Services):
Honourable senators, I am not aware of the data in relation to this additional
poll that was not released, so I will need to be informed about it.
With respect to Mr. Paillé's mandate, we have pegged the goalposts at 1990 to
2003. That was in our political platform. I am sure that will not please the
honourable senator as an answer, but it was there. At least the matter was out
there in the open, transparent and in writing, black and white. It was linked to
the Auditor General's report of 2003.
The honourable senator has since stated that she is happy with the measures
implemented. All things being considered, it probably makes sense to keep those
Senator Carstairs: I am delighted that the honourable senator does not
think those goalposts should be kept, since he is quite right; the Auditor
General made that statement.
Why, then, would the minister be unwilling to increase those goalposts to
include any polling that has been undertaken while this government has been in
Senator Fortier: Maybe the honourable senator and I are confusing two
issues, or maybe I am.
The issue to be addressed through Mr. Paillé's inquiry is how contracts were
awarded. It is important that the data be released. I agree with the honourable
In essence, Mr. Paillé's role is to indicate to us how the procurement
process was handled by governments. There were several between 1990 and 2003.
If I understand the honourable senator correctly, she is complaining at this
stage about the lack of disclosure in terms of the polling data. I say to her
again today, I am happy to release the data or speak to my colleagues who have
requested those polling numbers and who have sought polling on certain issues to
ensure that they release the data. To me, these are two different issues.
Senator Carstairs: I think those issues are exactly the same. If
Senator Fortier thinks it is important to ensure that governments from 1990 to
2003 were accountable, then I think it is equally important that governments in
2006 and 2007 are accountable.
Will the minister revise the mandate of Mr. Paillé and ask him to continue to
investigate any contracts given to any firms for polling purposes so that his
government can be just as accountable as the Auditor General said the previous
Senator Fortier: The Auditor General confirmed that, since 2003, she
was happy with how the process was being conducted. Frankly, I do not see the
reason for asking Mr. Paillé to go through materials which the Auditor General
has obviously reviewed and blessed.
Mr. Paillé is intending to review materials that go back to 1990 for reasons
we have stated in the past. I agree with the honourable senator; it is important
we be transparent.
Having said that, I believe that there was only one poll that was not
published within the six-month period. If there is another, I ask the honourable
senator to let me know. Senator Carstairs started her question by stating there
is another case.
Senator Carstairs: No, I did not.
Senator Fortier: I do apologize. We have the one case, and we will
ensure the same thing does not happen again.
Hon. Jean Lapointe: Honourable senators, my question follows on
Senator Fox's and is for the Leader of the Government in the Senate. In addition
to being an excellent tap dancer and having a way with words, the Leader of the
Government has become a verbal contortionist. I greatly admire her for all these
qualities, but I would like an answer that is as short as my question.
Will the festivals receive the $30 million before the events, yes or no?
Hon. Marjory LeBreton (Leader of the Government and Secretary of State
(Seniors)): I thank the honourable senator for the question. There is a
two-part answer. Funding to festivals is ongoing, and, as I have now pointed out
three times, large festivals in Montreal, as Minister Oda said in the other
place yesterday, will receive between $300,000 and $1.2 million from the
government this summer.
The amount that seems to be in question is the $60 million which people say
has not been allocated. This was $60 million additional dollars included in
Budget 2007. As I explained today, and last week, the government and the
department will be receiving applications for access to that $60 million. There
are many festivals that take place in this country. Summer festivals are being
funded. The $60 million will be accessible to anyone who wants to make
application. Once it has been adjudicated to be a worthy recipient, the money
The government and the department is being careful to ensure that this money
is being properly disbursed because, as I have said before, we do not want
festival money or sponsorship money — or whatever you want to call it — to end
up in hands where it was not intended to end up.
Senator Lapointe: I would just like to make a comment. That is the
longest "yes or no" answer I have ever heard in my life.
Hon. Lorna Milne: Honourable senators, last week the Journals Branch
of the Senate was kind enough to inform me that there have been 22 recorded
votes in the Senate during the 102 sitting days since the session began on April
On that day, April 3, 2006, a very special event occurred here. We had the
privilege of being joined by our colleague Senator Fortier. Since Senator
Fortier has been the only Canadian officially introduced into this chamber since
that time, I have had a significant amount of time to review the Journals of
the Senate, which leads to my question.
Can the minister himself, or, as usual, the Leader of the Government in the
Senate on his behalf, advise honourable senators how many times Senator Fortier
has stood in his place and had his vote recorded in the 102 sitting days since
this session started over a year ago?
Hon. Marjory LeBreton (Leader of the Government and Secretary of State
(Seniors)): Honourable senators, that is an interesting question. I do not
know whether it exactly falls more into the category of Senate business or
government business. I do not know the purpose or intent of the question, but I
suppose a perusal of the Senate records could answer it. I do not have the
answer off the top of my head. Suffice to say that Senator Fortier is a valued
colleague, an excellent minister of public works and a nominated candidate to
run for office for the House of Commons in the next general election.
Senator Milne: I thank the honourable senator, I guess, for that
"sort-of" response. I would indicate to the chamber and for the record that
Senator Fortier held up his fingers and said zero. I must tell honourable
senators that he is wrong. To the best of my knowledge, Senator Fortier has cast
a recorded vote five times since April of last year.
Can the minister himself or, once again, the Leader of the Government on the
minister's behalf, tell honourable senators how many sitting days Senator
Fortier has stood in his place and had his vote recorded in this place in those
Senator LeBreton: Honourable senators, that begs the question: Why did
the honourable senator ask the question in the first place, if she had the
Senator Milne: As the Leader of the Government knows full well — and
she shows her expertise at it — this is Question Period, not answer period.
Honourable senators, I can tell you that the honourable senator, to the best
of my knowledge, has cast a recorded vote on only one day since the session
started. That was November 9, 2006 — five votes on one sitting day, and that is
This government keeps preaching accountability, while changing the rules so
they can be unaccountable to Canadians — not that one needs to change any rules
to be unaccounted regarding recorded votes; rather, one can simply follow the
honourable senator's example and fail to show up.
As the Leader of the Government has pointed out, Senator Fortier has been
quoted in the press on many occasions as saying that he is prepared to run in an
election in the other place at the earliest opportunity. However, when the
opportunity presented itself, he did not do so. If the honourable senator is not
interested in being here in this chamber and representing the people of the
province of Quebec, why did he not resign his seat and run as a candidate in the
November 2006 by-election in Montreal? If Senator Fortier is not interested in
being here in this chamber, why does he not just resign his seat for the benefit
of all Canadians?
Senator LeBreton: These types of questions do not, in my view, warrant
a lot of attention. The fact is Senator Fortier was appointed Minister of Public
Works and Government Services in February 2006. He is doing an outstanding job
as Minister of Public Works and Government Services and representing the people
of Montreal within government and at the cabinet table.
The good people of Vaudreuil have already approached Senator Fortier to be
their candidate. He indicated to them that he was going to run in that riding
and he has subsequently been nominated for that riding. The moment the general
election is called, Senator Fortier will be very happy to accommodate Senator
Milne and resign from the Senate.
Hon. Lowell Murray: Will the Leader of the Government examine the
possibility that the Minister of Public Works has not been here because he was
paired with some frequently absent Liberal senator?
Senator LeBreton: That is a possibility; I appreciate the honourable
senator's question. However, if we were to go down that road, the colour of some
faces in this place would be similar to that of the carpet.
Hon. Catherine S. Callbeck: My question is to the Leader of the
Government. It concerns the Veterans Independence Program, which is a valuable
program that enables veterans and their spouses to live in their own homes
longer, close to their family and friends. Unfortunately, this program does not
cover all spouses.
Prior to and during the last election, the Prime Minister made a commitment
that he would expand this program to include all spouses of veterans from the
Second World War and the Korean War. When will the government honour this
commitment made by the Prime Minister?
Hon. Marjory LeBreton (Leader of the Government and Secretary of State
(Seniors)): I thank the honourable senator for the question. As she is well
aware, Veterans Affairs Canada is conducting a comprehensive review of all its
health care programs and services to veterans, initiated last year by the
Minister of Veterans Affairs, Greg Thompson. The review will develop proposals
aimed at ensuring that elderly veterans and their survivors continue to receive
the health care programs and services most needed by them. About 97,000 veterans
and their primary caregivers qualify for the Veterans Independence Program
services across the country at a current cost of approximately $270 million per
year. In addition to this program, Veterans Affairs Canada provides a wide range
of support for our veterans. If any veterans or their caregivers think that they
are eligible to receive help for a need that is not being met, we will work with
them directly to see that they receive the care they need.
Senator Callbeck: I am glad to hear that the government is providing
services to veterans — it is their duty to do so. I asked a specific question:
When will the government expand this program?
Recently in my province of P.E.I., I attended an event hosted by the Royal
Canadian Legion Ladies Auxiliary, Provincial Command, where I was asked when the
government would expand the program as promised by the Prime Minister so that it
would include the spouses of all veterans from World War II and the Korean War.
The honourable leader mentioned that Veterans Affairs Canada will undertake a
review of all its programs. I would like to know when the review on the VIP will
be completed. If the Leader of the Government in the Senate is talking to
Minister Thompson, would she impress upon him the importance of this very
Senator LeBreton: Minister Thompson and the Prime Minister recently
made an announcement about the veterans' ombudsman. With respect to the
honourable senator's direct question, I will be happy to take it as notice and
provide a written response as quickly as possible for the honourable senator.
Hon. Maria Chaput: Honourable senators, my question is for the Leader
of the Government in the Senate. This past weekend, like a number of my
colleagues, I attended the Canadian Summit of Francophone and Acadian
Communities. The 700 francophones and Acadians who took part adopted a 10-year
development plan, the culmination of a lengthy consultation process that began
In her speech at the summit, Minister Verner announced that she, and I quote:
. . . will hold extensive consultations on the government's overall vision
for official languages and linguistic duality.
Within a year, we will have a clear roadmap that will have been developed
with and for all communities.
Can the minister assure us that all the consultations, discussions and common
strategies that came out of those two years of hard work and the three days of
discussion at the summit that just took place will be taken into consideration
and recognized by the minister as the definitive consultations she no longer has
Could her government agree that the priorities approved at the summit by all
our leaders do, in fact, represent the needs and priorities of these
communities, by the communities and for the communities, given the specific
situation, and that her government now has the obligation not to hold new
consultations, but to help implement this plan?
Hon. Marjory LeBreton (Leader of the Government and Secretary of State
(Seniors)): I thank the honourable senator for the question. Minister Verner
is a credible, committed spokesperson for the government on this issue as well
as on her other responsibilities. This government has demonstrated its strong
commitment to linguistic duality and official language minority communities. In
response to previous questions, I pointed out that Budget 2007 includes an
additional $30 million for cultural and after-school activities and community
centres for linguistic minorities. This amount is in addition to the $642
million over five years provided in the Action Plan for Official Languages. For
the record, since taking office, the government has announced significant
support for official language minority communities and linguistic duality: $1
billion over four years, until 2009, in education agreements with the provinces
and territories; $64 million over four years, until 2009, in agreements with the
provinces and territories for services; and $120 million, until 2009, in
agreements for official language minority communities.
I heard Senator Chaput's statement during Senators' Statements. I wish to
assure Senator Chaput that the government is fully committed to Canada's
minority language groups and to official languages, just as I assured her some
time ago when she asked if the New Horizons for Seniors Program. was to be cut.
In fact, we added money to the New Horizons for Seniors Program. I wish to
assure Senator Chaput that this government is fully committed to and has put
significant monies into these programs through the provinces and territories.
Hon. Gerald J. Comeau (Deputy Leader of the Government): Honourable
senators, I have the honour of tabling two responses to oral questions raised by
the Honourable Senator Cowan on April 26, 2007, concerning France, the boycott
on seal products, and by the Honourable Senator Milne on March 20, 2007,
concerning housing on reserves.
(Response to question raised by Hon. James S. Cowan on April 26, 2007)
Canadian officials have been active in addressing moves by the French
government to extend the existing European Union-wide import ban on seal pup
products to cover all seal products imported into France. For example, during
the first week of May, Canadian officials, including the Ambassador for
Fisheries Conservation, Loyola Sullivan, met with the counsellors to President
Chirac and high level officials of the Ministry of Ecology and Sustainable
Development as well as the Ministry of Tourism to register Canada's concern
regarding the extension of the ban. The meeting provided an opportunity to
give French officials information regarding wildlife conservation and sealing
The extension of the ban by France would take the form of a decree and
could not take effect until the fall of 2007. An amended decree must be
co-signed by the Ministers for Ecology, Agriculture and for Overseas and
requires an opinion of the National Council of the Protection of Nature. This
Council next meets in September 2007. This time frame offers Canada an
opportunity to continue to address the issue through diplomatic channels. The
Canadian government will raise the issue with officials in the new French
(Response to question raised by Hon. Lorna Milne on March 20, 2007)
In response to the question on how many houses on-reserve could be built
for $450 million, it should be clarified that the $450 million identified in
Budget 2006 was not only for housing, but education, water and to general
improvement of socio-economic outcomes for Aboriginal women, children and
families as well.
As the Honourable Senator indicated, houses in remote communities are
significantly more expensive to construct. However, based on experience to
date, the cost to build and service a house on reserve averages $150,000 per
unit for a typical three bedroom house. In addition, every $1 million in
direct funding will result in approximately six houses being built. If the
funding is leveraged with private-sector financing, considerably more units
can be delivered.
On April 20, 2007, Ministers Prentice and Solberg jointly announced the
creation of a $300 million First Nations Market Housing Fund. The Fund will
make it easier for First Nation individuals to obtain a loan to build, buy or
renovate a house on reserve lands, and it will act as a guarantee against
defaults for lenders who provide loans to First Nation home-buyers on-reserve.
A market-based approach will increase the housing supply on reserve, and
provide First Nation individuals with a means to build equity and generate
wealth, while maintaining the integrity of the reserve land base. This Fund
represents a fundamental shift in how the Government of Canada supports
housing on-reserve and builds on best practices demonstrated by the First
It is estimated that the Fund could provide up to 25,000 units over the
next ten years. The Fund is voluntary and available to those First Nations who
choose to apply and qualify, and in addition, the Fund is not replacing any
existing programs, rather it is another tool available to First Nations to
address housing needs. The Fund is slated to become operational by April 2008.
The ultimate objective is to move away from a system that depends almost
entirely on government subsidies to a system that gives First Nations people
the same housing opportunities and responsibilities as other Canadians.
Hon. Anne C. Cools: Honourable senators, I rise to withdraw the point
of order that I had raised last Thursday. As honourable senators will recall, I
had raised a point of order in respect of Item No. 1 of Reports of Committees,
being the report of the Special Senate Committee on Senate Reform. Last
Thursday, we settled many of the questions I had raised here on the floor. It
seems to me that the need for a ruling is redundant because the entire situation
has been overtaken by time and events.
Hon. Tommy Banks moved third reading of Bill S-209, concerning
personal watercraft in navigable waters. —(Honourable Senator Banks)
He said: Honourable senators, I think that everyone here knows everything
there is to know about Bill S-209. This is the fourth time we have dealt with it
on the floor. I simply urge all honourable senators to join in passing this
bill, as we have once before.
On motion of Senator Comeau, debate adjourned.
Hon. Gerald J. Comeau (Deputy Leader of the Government): Before we
proceed any further, Senator Ringuette was out of the room at the time when Bill
C-40 was called. I was wondering if I might get unanimous consent to revert back
to Bill C-40 so that she could speak on this bill.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Meighen, seconded
by the Honourable Senator Keon, for the second reading of Bill C-40, to amend
the Excise Tax Act, the Excise Act, 2001 and the Air Travellers Security
Charge Act and to make related amendments to other Acts.
Hon. Pierrette Ringuette: As a point of correction, I was not out of
the room; I was discussing an important issue with Senator Fortier. Only time
will tell if Senator Fortier resolved the issue.
Honourable senators, I am pleased to rise today to speak to Bill C-40 at
second reading, An Act to amend the Excise Tax Act, the Excise Act 2001 and the
Air Travellers Security Charge Act and to make relative amendments to other
This bill contains a number of administrative amendments proposed to
streamline the operation of the sales tax system. The bulk of this bill has to
do with bringing previous legislation in line with the policy intent of the
government and implementing previously proposed legislation that required
further study. I understand this was done after adequate consultation.
Honourable senators, Bill C-40 is divided into three parts. Part 1 implements
measures relating to the Goods and Services Tax and Harmonized Sales Tax; Part 2
contains measures relating to the taxation of wines, spirits and tobacco
products; and Part 3 amends the Air Travellers Security Charge Act.
The main problem with this bill is that it is extremely diverse in nature and
many of its provisions are completely unrelated to one another. For example,
Bill C-40 ensures consistency in the GST/ HST legislation by providing tax-free
status to the sale and importation of a blood substitute known as plasma
expander. Another provision deals with ensuring the consistent application of
the GST/HST to various agricultural products that can be purchased, imported and
sold by farmers on a tax-free basis.
It is very unusual for the same legislation to address GST measures, an
amendment to the Air Travellers Security Charge Act and measures related to the
regulation of tobacco and alcohol. Nevertheless, taken independently, most of
these measures make sense and represent miscellaneous improvements to the
consistency of our tax system.
The main features of these taxation amendments are the provisions pertaining
to the rules for applying the Harmonized Sales Tax. I believe that it is much
better and much more equitable to Canadians to concentrate on cutting income
tax, which is levied on increased income, rather than on cutting sales tax.
The Liberal Party has always been, as far as I can remember, a keen supporter
of fairness with respect to using income tax as the basis for fairness towards
Canadians. We have to keep in mind that most of the goods that provide us with
our basic needs were exempt from sales tax.
The Conservative tax plan will benefit the upper class of our society.
Working families will not save 1 per cent on bread and milk, but the friends of
the Conservatives will save 1 per cent on their new luxury sport utility
vehicles. That is the Conservative plan, or should I say the Reform plan?
In the first part of Bill C-40, one will find mostly GST/HST-related
measures with broadly distinct amendments. The bill amends the rules on health,
charities, business arrangements and governments and contains certain provisions
changing the way in which the GST is applied. An important measure of this part
deals with health-related rules. The bill amends the act so that speech-language
pathology services are henceforth effectively zero-rated. This change confirms
the tax-exempt status of these services, which will make it easier for young
people with language problems to access such services.
A second section that caught my attention was the government's initiative to
zero-rate sales and importation of a product that can be used to some extent as
a blood substitute. Plasma expander makes it possible, for example, to inject a
blood substitute during treatment for very serious burns or open fractures.
Plasma expander provides an alternative during crucial treatment for seriously
The government will also offer a GST rebate on motor vehicles that have been
used after being specially equipped for use by individuals with disabilities.
Honourable senators, one can only be pleased with such initiatives. May I
also say that most of the positive initiatives in this omnibus bill are a result
of Liberal budgets.
Furthermore, concerning charities, some amendments will ensure that the
exemption of supplies by charities of real property under short-term leases and
licences extends to any goods supplied with such real property, for example,
video screens and computers. This will mean less financial pressure on charities
as they carry out their important social mission.
The third measure concerns business arrangements. The amendment to the GST
legislation provides transitional GST-HST relief on the initial asset transfer
by a foreign bank that restructures its Canadian subsidiary into a Canadian
branch. This measure will act as an incentive to foreign banks in Canada to
restructure their subsidiaries as Canadian branches, thereby promoting more
competition in the Canadian banking sector.
Bill C-40 removes technical impediments that hindered the use of existing
group relief provisions under the GST-HST. This amendment clarifies the rules of
application of the legislation that are already in effect. In addition, the bill
simplifies compliance by excluding beverage container deposits that are
refundable to the consumer from the GST-HST base. In other words, honourable
senators, in purchasing, say, a six-pack of beverages where there is an added
fee for the return of the beverage containers, under Bill C-40 the added fee is
not a taxable item. This will make it easier for businesses to manage collection
and will lighten the regulatory burden associated with deposits, with a view to
promoting more recycling and environmental protection.
Other technical sections deal with the possibility of an agent to claim
GST-HST deduction for bad debts and to claim adjustment or refunds of tax in
respect of sales made on behalf of a principal where an agent collects or
reports tax. Another measure extends the existing agent rules under the GST-HST
legislation to persons acting only as billing agents for vendors.
The second part of this bill contains measures relating to the taxation of
wines, spirits and tobacco products. A review of the federal framework for the
taxation of alcohol and tobacco products resulted in new existing legislation in
2001. With these amendments, it will provide administration and enforcement,
updated to reflect the current industry tendencies and practices.
Honourable senators, given that these sections are highly technical, I will
not go into detail. The first of the principal measures deals with tobacco and
seeks to give greater precision to certain provisions contained in the Excise
Tax Act in order to better defend against the smuggling of tobacco products and
facilitate collection of taxes on tobacco. The bill includes measures to extend
the requirement to identify the origin of tobacco products on all products,
including those sold at duty-free shops or for export, consistent with the
Framework Convention on Tobacco Control, an international agreement. The bill
also specifies that cigarettes, tobacco sticks, fine-cut tobacco or cigars, but
not packaged raw-leaf tobacco, may be supplied to the export market or the
domestic duty-free market.
The second measure concerns alcohol. The bill has two main objectives. First,
it authorizes provincial liquor boards and vintners to possess a still or
similar equipment, for the purpose of analyzing substances containing ethyl
alcohol without holding a spirits licence. This measure aims to avoid the
administrative burden and cost of requiring provincial liquor boards and
vintners to obtain a permit.
Part 3 of the bill contains provisions relating to the Air Travellers
Security Charge. It makes various technical amendments that come mainly as a
result of the consultative process with interested parties. These were
implemented a few years ago, after the unfortunate events of September 11. They
include the announced relief measures and minor changes to the Air Travellers
Security Charge Act. There are two main measures. The first is tax relief. The
bill relieves, in particular circumstances, the Air Travellers Security Charge
in respect of air travel sold by reseller or donated by air carriers. This
measure would help charities like the Children's Wish Foundation of Canada,
which is dedicated to fulfilling a favourite wish for children afflicted with a
high-risk, life-threatening illness. These amendments can only be applauded.
From an administrative point of view, the bill provides authority for the
Governor-in-Council to add, delete or vary by regulation the schedule of listed
On a last note, I wish to convey to this house that I have some concern with
clause 46 of the bill. As you are aware, honourable senators, the Minister of
National Revenue had the power, through the Excise Tax Act, to waive or cancel
penalties and interest payable by a person — without any restrictions on how far
back they could apply their discretion. However, through the Budget
Implementation Act, 2006, those provisions were amended by introducing a 10-year
limitation period, which came into application on April 1, 2007.
Clause 46 of this bill would, once again, give the ability to the minister to
waive or cancel penalties and interest beyond the 10-year limitation. Is this
recognition by the government that its own legislation was flawed? Last year, a
10-year limitation was introduced with the general team of the government on
accountability. This year — two months after the 10-year limitation was
legislated, introduced and implemented — they are coming back with an omnibus
bill removing the 10-year limitation of the Minister of National Revenue to have
the ability to waive all penalties and interest.
The bill is about 140 pages long and it is an omnibus bill. If the bill were
a means to try to hide the fact that the government either no longer wishes to
be accountable or wishes to waive the accountability period beyond 10 years,
that has been uncovered here.
Honourable senators, I encourage this chamber to send this proposed
legislation to committee for it to follow its due course. I hope the committee
will look extensively at the bill and, in particular, at the abolishment of the
10-year limitation on the part of the minister to waive interest and penalties
for any person. I certainly do not agree with that.
The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Are honourable
senators ready for the question? It was moved by the Honourable Senator Meighen,
seconded by Honourable Senator Keon, that this bill be read the second time. Is
it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Mitchell, seconded
by the Honourable Senator Trenholme Counsell, for the third reading of Bill
C-288, to ensure Canada meets its global climate change obligations under the
And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Tkachuk, seconded
by the Honourable Senator Angus, that Bill C-288 be not now read a third time
but that it be amended:
(a) in clause 3, on page 3, by replacing line 19 with the
"Canada makes all reasonable efforts to take effective and timely
action to meet";
(b) in clause 5,
(i) on page 4,
(A) by replacing line 2 with the following:
"to ensure that Canada makes all reasonable efforts to meet its
(B) by replacing line 6 with the following:
"ance standards for vehicle emissions that meet or exceed
international best practices for any prescribed class of motor vehicle
for any year,", and
(C) by adding after line 13 the following:
"(iii.2) the recognition of early action to reduce greenhouse gas
(ii) on page 5,
(A) by replacing line 9 with the following:
"(a) within 10 days after the expiry of each",
(B) by replacing line 23 with the following:
"first 15 days on which that House is sitting", and
(C) by replacing lines 26 and 27 with the following:
"each House of Parliament is deemed to be referred to the standing
committee of the Senate and the House of Commons that";
(c) in clause 6, on page 6, by adding after line 29 the following:
"(3) For the purposes of this Act, the Governor-in-Council may make
regulations restricting emissions by "large industrial emitters",
persons that the Governor-in-Council considers are particularly
responsible for a large portion of Canada's greenhouse gas emissions,
(a) persons that are part of the electricity generation
sector, including persons that use fossil fuels to produce electricity;
(b) persons that are part of the upstream oil and gas sector,
including persons that produce and transport fossil fuels but excluding
petroleum refiners and distributors of natural gas to end users; and
(c) persons that are part of energy-intensive industries,
including persons that use energy derived from fossil fuels, petroleum
refiners and distributors of natural gas to end users.";
(d) in clause 7,
(i) on page 6,
(A) by replacing line 32 with the following:
"that Canada makes all reasonable attempts to meet its obligations
(B) by replacing line 38 with the following:
"ensure that Canada makes all reasonable attempts to meet its
(ii) on page 7, by replacing line 4 with the following:
"(3) In ensuring that Canada makes all reasonable attempts to meet
(e) in clause 9,
(i) on page 7, by replacing line 33 with the following:
"ensure that Canada makes all reasonable attempts to meet its
(ii) on page 8,
(A) by replacing line 3 with the following:
"Minister considers appropriate within 30 days", and
(B) by replacing line 7 with the following:
"(1) or on any of the first fifteen days on which";
(f) in clause 10,
(i) on page 8,
(A) by replacing line 9 with the following:
"10. (1) Within 180 days after the Minister",
(B) by replacing line 11 with the following:
"tion 5(3), or within 90 days after the Minister", and
(C) by replacing line 38 with the following:
"(a) within 15 days after receiving the", and
(ii) on page 9,
(A) by replacing line 6 with the following:
"Houses on any of the first 15 days on", and
(B) by replacing line 9 with the following
"(b) within 30 days after receiving the advice,";
(g) in clause 10.1, on page 9,
(i) by replacing line 17 with the following:
"and Sustainable Development may prepare a",
(ii) by replacing line 32 with the following:
"report to the Speakers of the Senate and the House of Commons",
(iii) by replacing lines 34 and 35 with the following:
"Speakers shall table the report in their respective Houses on any
of the first 15 days on which that House".—(Honourable Senator
Hon. Ethel Cochrane: Honourable senators, I am privileged to speak to
the amendment to Bill C-288, to ensure Canada meets its global climate change
obligations under the Kyoto Protocol. The bill before us purports to deal with
climate change. It is an issue that has been characterized by some, including
our honourable colleague Senator Mitchell, as the most important issue facing
the country in a generation — the issue of the 21st century.
Honourable senators, I share the belief that climate change is an important
issue, one that I, like many Canadians, have taken action on in my own home and
in my daily life by replacing old light bulbs with energy-efficient ones, by
turning down the thermostat, by driving less and by being mindful of my energy
use. However, while I am committed to implementing changes that will help the
environment, I feel the bill before us is nothing more than a political
As parliamentarians, we are entrusted with the job of carefully and seriously
considering legislation. Therefore, for this legislation, which deals with the
most important issue facing our country, how do we perform this serious work? We
held a grand total of seven meetings, discussing this bill with only 18
witnesses, some of whom were appearing on behalf of the same organization.
This is a bill that, by the government's own analysis, will cost 275,000
Canadians their jobs by 2009 and will see prices for gasoline, electricity and
natural gas skyrocket, and yet we do not even take the time to hear from
economists. Only one economist appeared, Jayson Myers, and that was in his
capacity of Senior Vice President and Chief Economist of the Canadian
Manufacturers and Exporters.
Given the limited scope of the investigation of this bill, I can only assume
it was not given more thoughtful consideration because those on the side with
numbers to make a difference thought this legislation was so obvious a ploy that
it was not even worth the time needed for debate and discussion.
Honourable senators, sometimes it seems, in this place and elsewhere, that if
one asks questions and seeks to probe beyond the surface of environmental
issues, one is seen somehow as an enemy of the environment. This is a
misrepresentation of the facts, and it is simply wrong.
It may surprise some honourable senators to know that other witnesses, many
of whom have outstanding records of environmental achievement, voiced opposition
to Bill C-288. We were told that Bill C-288 is simply not what Canada needs at
I think Richard Paton, President and Chief Executive Officer of the Canadian
Chemical Producers' Association, perhaps said it best when he told the
Bill C-288 is unfortunately a perfect example of a bill that reacts to an
issue without a solid policy platform that will lead to long-term solutions to
this important issue. . . . Climate change is a serious issue, but it deserves
to be treated seriously. This bill does not do so.
Robert Page, the TransAlta Professor of Environmental Management and
Sustainability at the University of Calgary, had similar concerns about the
bill. He said:
In my opinion, this bill is politically motivated to a greater extent than
it is in terms of the real climate change challenges and the real
circumstances that Canada faces today.
There is something absurd about legislating what is normally an eight to
14-year period for a new power plant and fundamental technology in the Kyoto
period . . .
This is particularly true because any of the tonnes that we miss in 2008
are extra tonnes we have to pick up in the later years of the Kyoto period.
This is not a target for 2012. This is the target for January 1, 2008.
In his presentation before the committee, Pierre Alvarez, President of the
Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers, referred to the targets outlined in
the bill as "Canada's domestically unachievable Kyoto target." He went on to
We believe Bill C-288 would be yet another diversion that would delay
action in the areas required. The cost of buying foreign credits, if they were
available, to cover Canada's 2008 to 2012 gap is conservatively estimated to
be between $15 billion and $30 billion.
Indeed, many of the business leaders we heard from share these concerns. What
surprised me, honourable senators, is the sense of commitment to achieving real
environmental results that all of these groups seemed to have. I am sure Senator
Mitchell would agree. They all want to improve and advance the environmental
cause in this country, but they want to approach it in a balanced way.
Jayson Myers, Senior Vice-president and Chief Economist with the Canadian
Manufacturers and Exporters, said in his presentation:
The key message here is how do we make doing something good for the
environment something also good for the economy? I believe that can be done. I
am concerned, though, that if we focus on unrealistic targets — and I believe
the Kyoto target to be unrealistic — that we would lead to counterproductive
outcomes. That is the experience we have had over the last 10 years of talking
about how we would put this together.
To put that into perspective, then, to go from where we are now to actually
meet Canada's Kyoto obligation of 6 per cent reduction from 1990 levels, we
would require, if we started right away, somewhere in the level of a 30 per
cent, 35 per cent reduction in emissions over a five-year period. That would
require an acceleration factor of 700 per cent acceleration in this rate of
He later said:
Let us do things based on a realistic time frame, what technology can
actually deliver and let us do things right that actually provide incentives.
Bob Page, to whom I referred earlier, was a particularly compelling witness.
I was deeply impressed with his wealth of knowledge and experience as well as
the honesty with which he spoke. Dr. Page was part of the official delegation
for Canada and has worked privately for the Government of Canada in a variety of
ways over the last 10 years. This is what he said:
It is not with any degree of enthusiasm that I have come to this conclusion
that it is impossible to implement the Kyoto Protocol target now that we are
only eight months before they commence.
Honourable senators, in looking beyond the great many concerns raised about
meeting the Kyoto targets in such a short timeline, one finds serious flaws with
the proposed legislation. Consider, for instance, that Bill C-288 does not
include any recognition of the efforts made by Canada's environmental leaders,
the early actors who have long been addressing their greenhouse gas emissions.
Avrim Lazar, president and CEO of Forest Products Association of Canada, told
the committee the following:
Unless the early actors, those parts of society and industry who have been
responsible environmental citizens since 1990, are recognized, we will be
sending a clear signal that dragging our feet until regulation is the right
strategy. We cannot afford this as a country. We have to recognize in
regulation what early actors do so that industry and citizens realize that we
should not wait for regulation; we should do what the Canadian forest industry
has done and act.
One argument often promoted by those on the other side of the debate is that
being green attracts economic advantages. Honourable senators, this argument is
partly right at best. The reality is that true economic advantages are reaped
only when there is a level playing field, as Mr. Lazar so clearly explained:
It is true that there are economic advantages to being green, but we should
not oversimplify the situation because if our competitors are not green, we
may be advantaged, but, in the long run, we will be out of business. There
must be a level playing field. We can be greener than the competitors, but
there is a comfort limit. We can get this far ahead but if we get too far
ahead, we are actual shutting ourselves down and handing over the production
to people who are not doing their environmental job. It is great to be green,
but it is also great to stay in business. There is a margin beyond which you
do not want to get ahead of global standards.
Richard Paton of the Canadian Chemical Producers' Association echoed the
In its current form, this bill does not deliver a sustainable solution.
Canada must go forward, with a sustainable strategy that recognizes past
performance and builds on ensuring a global solution that does not undermine
Dr. Page was perhaps most clear in his advice to the committee:
. . . I strongly urge that this committee — with its traditional role, as
Mr. Paton put it, of sober second thought — come back either with amendments
to, or rejection of, this bill so that we can build a Canadian plan that meets
Canadian circumstances and really does deliver a program that will cut
emissions significantly in an appropriate time frame.
Honourable senators, I am sure we all can appreciate the difficulties Senator
Tkachuk faced in devising his amendment for third reading debate. Had he not
been denied his right to put his amendments individually in committee, they
could have been looked at, one at a time, in a forum that provided an
opportunity for appropriate discussion, among those who had heard the testimony
of the witnesses, with a vote and a determination.
Senator Angus: Hear, hear!
Senator Cochrane: At third reading in this chamber, Senator Tkachuk
could only put one amendment, and he chose to assemble a number of the
amendments he had planned for committee consideration into one single package.
Unfortunately, as a result, this could lead some senators to vote against a
package because of a single element, when in reality they might find the
remainder perfectly acceptable.
With this in mind, I would draw the attention of honourable senators to the
portion that specifically allows for the creation of a separate category of
regulations for large industrial emitters. Although I know a similar provision
in the House of Commons found some favour in a different context, this might
have a differential impact on an energy-producing province like mine,
Newfoundland and Labrador.
Hon. Ethel Cochrane: Accordingly, I move, seconded by Senator Angus:
That the motion in amendment be amended by deleting paragraph (c)
and re-lettering paragraphs (d) to (g) as paragraphs (c)
The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, it is moved by the
Honourable Senator Cochrane, seconded by the Honourable Senator Angus, that the
motion and the amendment be amended by deleting paragraph (c) and
re-lettering paragraphs (d) to (g) as paragraphs (c) to (f).
Is there debate?
Some Hon. Senators: Question!
The Hon. the Speaker: Are honourable senators ready for the question?
Is Senator Angus rising to speak?
Hon. W. David Angus: Honourable senators, I am pleased to second
Senator Cochrane's amendment to the motion in amendment proposed last week by
Senator Tkachuk. I offer the following comments in support of the amendment of
Honourable senators, I am not a happy camper when it comes to Bill C-288.
Honourable senators know well that I deplore the events that took place at the
Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources at
the time this bill was rushed through clause-by-clause study. As I indicated at
the time, I believe my rights as a senator were substantially violated on that
occasion and that the whole travesty constituted an abuse of the process of this
place. It is shenanigans such as those that cast the Senate and all of us — and
I submit this most sincerely, honourable senators — in a poor light vis-à-vis
the Canadian public. Is it any wonder there is such an outcry for Senate reform
in this great land of ours?
On Bill C-288 itself, and quite apart from its merits as good or bad public
policy or as good or bad proposed legislation, I continue to be an unhappy
camper. Climate change is such a critical issue — perhaps the most critical
issue of the day — not only here in Canada but globally. All we have to do is
look at the front pages of all the periodicals. The Economist today
issued a 15-page report entitled "Cleaning Up" on climate change and the G8
summit in Berlin. This is a very big issue facing all of mankind.
It makes me unhappy to see a bill such as this being debated here in this
marginal fashion. The issue of climate change concerns us all deeply and
deserves better treatment.
Bill C-288, a private member's bill from the opposition side, orders the
Conservative government — also known as Canada's new government — to meet
certain global climate change obligations stipulated in the Kyoto Protocol, a
protocol signed by the Liberal Chrétien government in December 2002 but never
implemented in Canada via appropriate domestic implementation legislation by
either the Chrétien or the Martin Liberal governments.
Why was Kyoto not implemented, honourable senators? Why are opposition
Liberals now trying to do indirectly what they refused and/or failed to do
directly in government? I believe, as my colleague Senator Cochrane suggested,
that it is because they are playing questionable political games trying to
embarrass Canada's new government and to sidetrack it from its own enlightened,
progressive, realistic, magnificent and workable climate change agenda.
A useful clue, I suggest, honourable senators, can be found in the words of
former Prime Minister Jean Chrétien's ex-chief of staff, the legendary Eddie
Goldenberg, who said and wrote: "When we signed Kyoto, it was not to meet the
targets. We knew they were not achievable. Rather, it was to bring attention to
the important issue of climate change."
Honourable senators, there you have it.
On December 17, 2002, Canada's government signed the Kyoto Protocol. The
Kyoto Protocol officially came into force in February 2005, following
ratification by Russia in November 2004. Having come into force, the Kyoto
Protocol stipulated targets for various of the developed nations to reduce their
greenhouse gas emissions to certain levels below 1990 levels. In the case of
Canada, it was stipulated to be 6 per cent below 1990 levels. Yet, today, levels
are 35 per cent higher rather than 6 per cent lower. As Senator Cochrane has
said, we would have to reduce by between 30 and 35 per cent in a short time.
This is a far cry from achieving the Kyoto targets.
In May 2007, Environment Canada submitted its annual national greenhouse gas
inventory for 2005 to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change.
The report indicates that there was almost flat growth in greenhouse gas
emissions from 2003 to 2005, but that greenhouse gases are still over 30 per
cent higher than our Kyoto targets. The report shows that the slow-down in
greenhouse gas emissions growth appears to have been the result of action taken
by the provinces which reduced coal-fired electricity and increased nuclear and
Honourable senators, let us be realistic. As of December 2006, a total of 169
countries and other governmental entities had ratified the agreement. However,
notable exceptions include our good neighbour to the south, the United States,
and our ally and partner in many ventures, Australia. Some countries, such as
India and China, are exempt under the protocols, despite their huge populations.
All in all, the countries that did accept targets under Kyoto account for less
than 30 per cent of present-day global emissions.
Although Canada is a signatory, we were told by legal experts at the Energy
Committee that without Canadian implementation or domestic legislation this
agreement is not legally enforceable in Canada.
Ms. Collins, assistant professor at the University of Ottawa, stated:
If there is no domestic legislation, the international legal obligation
exists, and Canada would be in violation of that. However, it would not be
justiciable in Canada. In other words, we cannot take the treaty to court and
hold the government accountable. We cannot take the treaty to court against
emitters, et cetera.
In Canada, the question is, when can we take a legal obligation to court,
and the answer is, when it has been implemented in domestic legislation.
That being said, once legislation such as Bill C-288 is adopted by both
Houses, Canada will have no option other than to comply with the Kyoto Protocol
and reducing Canada's emissions to 6 per cent below the 1990 level. This would
mean that Canada would have to reduce its emissions by more than 30 per cent for
the 2008-2012 compliance years.
Honourable senators, if there were a magical solution, and if it were easy,
Canada would have reduced its emissions a long time ago. However, the fact is
that emission reductions can only be achieved effectively and sustainably
through technological innovation and consequential investments in capital.
Corporate Canada needs to invest in research and development and the Government
of Canada needs to continue to implement smart financial incentives for Canadian
companies to do just that. Certain technological innovations can be achieved
quickly, but others can take years to develop, perfect and commercialize.
Honourable senators, it has been very interesting to observe the change in
this place over the past several years. I do not think it is an exaggeration to
say that we have all become green. I, personally, have come full circle. I now
recycle at home, where we do everything possible to meet the One-Tonne
Challenge. Like most senators, I understand the importance of a clean and
Most Canadians have been overwhelmed in the last years with the scientific
evidence that has been forthcoming in a user-friendly and understandable way.
The problem exists; the science is real. Many Canadians have observed the
climatic change in our great and vast North and its impact on the way of life of
our native peoples.
I am always fascinated by Senator Adams' tales from his home in the North. He
recently told us that the people there have a habit of tying their husky dogs to
trees just above the high tide line. However, because of the changes in the
melting this year, 21 Husky dogs, I believe it was, drowned. These people are
not negligent with their dogs. It is essential to their lives to have these
dogs. The speed with which the changes are happening is staggering, and we must
do something about it.
Most Canadians sympathize with our struggling farmers from coast to coast who
are dealing with drought and extreme weather patterns. I do not think there is
an issue about the extent of the problem; the issue is how we deal with it.
I remember the great Right Honourable John George Diefenbaker beset by a
revolution led by our dear friend, the late Dalton Camp, in the Chateau Laurier.
He stood there and said, "I am a big game hunter and when you are hunting big
game you do not get sidetracked by rabbit tracks, like you." I believe Bill
C-288 would have the effect of sidetracking Canadians with rabbit tracks.
Some Hon. Senators: Hear, hear.
Senator Angus: We want to hunt big game, we want to reduce greenhouse
gas emissions and we want to protect our children and grandchildren and the next
generation from the evils.
Senator Smith: I want to know where you stand.
Senator Angus: I strongly believe that to achieve real improvements in
our environment, Canada must invest heavily on an urgent basis in the
development of innovative green technologies, as Senator Cochrane has said.
Through green technologies Canada can change the way it does business and have a
significant impact on reducing pollutants and greenhouse gases. By aggressively
exporting its new green technologies to nations around the world, Canada could
emerge as a champion of the environmental cause and perhaps regain the
prestigious international standing we once enjoyed but no longer enjoy on the
Even in the last three or four years, when we were on the other side of this
chamber, I used to be the senator of my party that would question the government
when the annual or quarterly reports of the Commissioner of the Environment
would come out. I can remember that each year I was quite startled. We started
with the ranking of number 4 in the OECD, on a certain list of criteria as to
our compliance with good behaviour in the environment. Gradually the standing
got up to 28 out of 29 OECD countries. It is a shocking display and I am fairly
sad about that standing.
The Hon. the Speaker: I regret to advise the honourable senator that
his time has elapsed.
Some Hon. Senators: More, more!
The Hon. the Speaker: Will honourable senators allow Senator Angus to
continue for five minutes?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator Angus: Honourable senators, Bill C-288, on its face, is a tiny
little bill; it appears to be a simple bill; it purports to oblige our
government, our new government, to come up with a plan for Canada to achieve
these Kyoto targets, which I say are unrealistic, within 60 days. However, it is
not a simple bill. When drilling down and examining it thoroughly, we find the
potential negative economic consequences of this bill are tremendous. They
amount to billions of dollars and are capable of doing irreparable damage to the
present fairly robust Canadian economy.
The members and senators supporting this bill will say that it is needed to
reduce greenhouse gas emissions in Canada. My response to this argument, based
on the evidence that we have heard to date in the committee, is the following:
This bill simply and clearly is not the way to go.
Senator Robichaud: I am surprised.
Senator Angus: Encouraging innovation and the advancement of
technology by our Canadian companies investing in research and development and
smart financial incentive is the way to go, honourable senators. That is the
rational and realistic way to go. Let us make our Canadian companies stronger,
not weaker, by forcing them to buy up international carbon credits. Instead, let
Canadian companies invest in research and development in new high-tech and
environment-friendly capital equipment.
Honourable senators, let us keep our hard-earned Canadian dollars in Canada
to support our economy and to expand good, solid Canadian investments. Let us
ensure our Canadian companies are better than the competing foreign companies.
Let us ensure that our companies benefit from a technological comparative
advantage and let us support research and development in Canada in exciting new
technology to improve the environment.
Honourable senators, I earnestly believe — Canada's new government believes
as well, I might add — that there are better and smarter ways of reducing
greenhouse gas emissions than Bill C-288. There are better ways of enticing our
corporations to control pollution than via Bill C-288.
Senator Mitchell: Name some. Even one would be good.
Senator Angus: If I had more than five minutes, I would list 500.
Honourable senators, as you now know, the Standing Senate Committee on
Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources, through deplorable tactics and
behaviour by certain Liberal senators, was unable to hear all the witnesses who
were ready to testify against this bill. The committee did hear from a few
witnesses and Senator Cochrane quoted their evidence at length.
Therefore, at this stage, honourable senators, I thank you for giving me some
extra time. I would like to say again that I wholeheartedly support Senator
Hon. Consiglio Di Nino: Honourable senators, I wish to make some brief
comments on this subamendment. I am principally motivated by the exchange that
took place last week on this debate between Senator Tkachuk's comments and
Senator Mitchell's response. I found Senator Mitchell's very spirited response
to Senator Tkachuk's speech, although entertaining, full of political rhetoric,
to which I would like to make some brief comments.
Senator Cools: Good stuff.
Senator Di Nino: Let me begin by saying that this Conservative
government was elected to implement its agenda, not the failed ideas of the
Some Hon. Senators: Hear, hear.
Senator Di Nino: I would like to remind all honourable senators that
the good people of Senator Mitchell's province, in 28 of 28 ridings,
democratically chose the Conservative government's agenda over that of Senator
Mitchell's party. Although it may surprise some colleagues because their party's
record on keeping promises is spotty at best, those Conservative men and women
who were the choice of Albertans and joined by others from all parts of Canada
will try very hard to implement this government's agenda even against the
obstructions placed in its way by some honourable colleagues in both chambers.
Honourable senators, the Senate traditionally has been a much less partisan
body for thoughtful and balanced debate than the other place. It is, after all,
the chamber of sober second thought. Regrettably, the intervention of Senator
Mitchell's recent remarks on Bill C-288, to me at least, represents the
opposite. His speech contained insulting and thoughtless political jibes, which
brought the debate down to a level we should avoid and I will do my best to do
The fact is, honourable senators, this government has been straight up with
the Canadian people in telling them that a decade of Liberal inaction on the
climate change file has put Canada in an impossible position. When Senator
Tkachuk spoke last Thursday he included quotes from a very apt piece of the May
14 issue of Maclean's about Al Gore's comments on climate change.
Senator Mitchell: That is an elevated source.
Senator Di Nino: If the honourable senator were to listen, he might
For the record, I would like to add some additional quotes.
Senator Campbell: Is it peer-reviewed?
Senator Di Nino: Shall I sit down so you can talk? You will have a
chance as soon as I am finished.
For the record, I would like to add some additional quotes from the same
The plan released by Environment Minister John Baird last month includes
almost all the remedies Gore himself calls for. Ottawa has already introduced
tax breaks for public transit. Now we have rebates for fuel-efficient cars
with new standards on the way. There will be carbon sequestering, a new
technology fund and a ban on incandescent bulbs.
You asked what we will do. These are a few ideas. We will have more as time
I continue to quote:
Baird's plan is also notable for its focus on reducing air pollution, which
arguably has a bigger negative impact on Canadians today than global warming
ever will. Taken as a whole, the plan represents an effective compromise
between economic sanity and environmental necessity.
Gore's fascinating reinvention of himself from earnest but boring
politician to environmental crusader is a notable achievement. If he has made
himself rich in the process, we applaud that as well. But during this
transformation, Gore appears to have forgotten the art of realistic
policy-making, and has ceased to tell his audience the whole truth.
Speaking of the truth, an editorial in yesterday's The Globe and Mail,
Monday, June 4, dealing with the G8 summit stated: "Canada has the opportunity
and the obligation to tell the truth to those nations. . ."
I think that is worth repeating.
Canada has the opportunity and the obligation to tell the truth to those
nations: that it cannot meet its Kyoto commitments because the treaty's terms
are stacked against energy-exporting nations.
As Canadian officials noted yesterday, any post-Kyoto deal must consequently
recognize that Canada is unique in both being an economic powerhouse and an
emerging energy superpower.
Also for the record, honourable senators, a report from the World Wildlife
Fund for Nature published yesterday in The Globe and Mail pegs Canada
with the worst record among the G8 countries in addressing climate change
between 1990 and 2005. Emissions in this country in that period of time
increased by 27 per cent. It is also heartening to read in The Globe and Mail
today that Canada and Germany have reached a certain agreement on long-term
goals. I would like to quote Chancellor Merkel's comments. She said:
We agree on the fact that we need reduction targets. . . . Our objectives
are worded in somewhat different kind of language, but I think at the end of
the day we share this goal.
Honourable senators, Bill C-288 represents the previous government's failure
to keep its promise to Canadians, even though some honourable senators do not
like to be reminded of it. It is an inconvenient truth. The official opposition
is trying to score political points by deflecting responsibility for their
failure to this government. It will not work. The Harper government has been
quite clear on this issue all along. It will fix the problem in a way that will
balance the economic reality of today with the environmental health of our
country. It will keep its promise to the people of Canada.
Honourable senators, I would like to adjourn the debate in my name for the
remainder of my time.
Some Hon. Senators: No.
The Hon. the Speaker: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to
adopt the motion?
Some Hon. Senators: No.
Some Hon. Senators: Yes.
The Hon. the Speaker: All those in favour of the motion will signify
by saying "yea."
Some Hon. Senators: Yea.
The Hon. the Speaker: All those opposed to the motion will signify by
Some Hon. Senators: Nay.
The Hon. the Speaker: In my view the "nays" have it.
And two honourable senators having risen:
The Hon. the Speaker: Is there agreement from the whips?
There will be a one-hour bell. The vote will take place at three minutes
after 5. Call in the senators.
Does the chair have permission to leave?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Motion negatived on the following division:
THE HONOURABLE SENATORS
THE HONOURABLE SENATORS
THE HONOURABLE SENATORS
Senator Di Nino: Honourable senators, I wanted to express my
disappointment that I was denied the opportunity to continue the debate. I
wanted to tell you why I wanted to wait.
First, I had not really seen the actual sub-amendment, but there is a great
deal of discussion and negotiations going on right now with the G8. I quoted
from one small part of it today about the positions of Germany and Canada coming
closer together. Certainly, there are issues dealing with China, Russia, India
and Brazil. We have some serious environmental problems with which those
countries have to come to terms. More important, I was looking forward to
additional accommodations being made between Canada and some of the other
countries participating in these meetings because I believe that Prime Minister
Harper's position will be a much more attractive position to many of the
countries with which he is negotiating and dealing right now. That is why I had
asked for a postponement for a day or so, but I was denied and I am
Some Hon. Senators: Question!
The Hon. the Speaker: Are honourable senators ready for the question?
Some Hon. Senators: No.
Some Hon. Senators: Yes.
The Hon. the Speaker: The question for the house is the motion in
amendment moved by Senator Cochrane, seconded by Senator Angus, that the motion
in amendment be amended by deleting paragraph (c) and re-lettering paragraphs
(d) to (g) as paragraph (c) to (f).
Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Some Hon. Senators: No.
The Hon. the Speaker: I will put the question formally: All those in
favour of the motion will signify by saying "yea."
Some Hon. Senators: Yea.
The Hon. the Speaker: Those opposed to the motion will signify by
Some Hon. Senators: Nay.
The Hon. the Speaker: In my opinion the "nays" have it.
And two honourable senators having risen:
The Hon. the Speaker: Call in the senators. Do the whips have an
agreement as to the time of the bell?
Hon. Terry Stratton: According to rule 67(1) and 67(2), I would like
the vote deferred.
The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, this is a motion. It is not
an adjournment motion. It is subject to deferral and it is deferred until
tomorrow at 5:30 p.m. Is that understood, honourable senators?
Hon. James S. Cowan: The rule refers to 5:30 tomorrow, but we have
committees regularly scheduled. Is it being proposed that committees be
Senator Stratton: The vote will be at 5:30. The committees can meet at
4 p.m. and adjourn to come to vote and then go back.
Senator Cowan: Is the honourable senator saying that the Senate would
adjourn at 4 p.m., committees would meet and the vote would be at 5:30?
Senator Stratton: Yes. What is wrong?
The Hon. the Speaker: The chair would like to have the assistance of
honourable senators. We have a house order that we adjourn at 4 p.m., but if a
vote is called, as it has been called, and deferred to 5:30, it means we cannot
adjourn until that vote takes place, unless there is an agreement between the
The rule is clear. I will go over it again. When a vote is deferred to a
Wednesday, it is at 5:30, according to the rules, but because there is a house
order that we normally adjourn at 4 p.m., we will not adjourn at 4 p.m. because
the calling of a vote trumps that house order at 4 p.m. That is the case unless
the two sides agree.
Senator Stratton: Is Senator Cowan in agreement to have the house
adjourn at 4 p.m. for regular committee meetings and come back for the 5:30
The Hon. the Speaker: I will read from the Journals of the Senate:
. . . where a vote is deferred until 5:30 p.m. on a Wednesday, the Speaker
shall interrupt the proceedings, immediately prior to any adjournment but no
later than 4 p.m., to suspend the sitting until 5:30 p.m. for the taking of
the deferred vote, and that committees be authorized to meet during the period
that the sitting is suspended.
Effectively, then, we will vote at 5:30 and committees will sit from 4 p.m.
However, there is the question of how much time will we give the honourable
senators to get over here for the vote at 5:30 if they are having meetings in
buildings like the Victoria Building. We normally allow half an hour, so will
the meetings of the committees taking place in the Victoria Building cease
around five o'clock so honourable senators can get to the chamber?
This is why I invite the assistance of the house and, in particular, the two
Senator Stratton: I would suggest that, as originally suggested, we
have the vote at 5:30. The chamber suspends at 4 p.m., committees meet until
5:15, senators come for the vote at 5:30 and then go back to their meetings.
The Hon. the Speaker: Is it the will of the house that there be only a
Some Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Some Hon. Senators: No.
The Hon. the Speaker: There will be a 15-minute bell, and those who
are at committees in faraway places understand the bell is only ringing for 15
minutes. The vote is at 5:30.
Hon. Anne C. Cools: Honourable senators, my understanding is that at 4
p.m. the Senate should adjourn normally. Therefore, a decision would have to be
taken to alter that adjournment into a suspension. What is the rule number, Your
Honour? I am not going to agree to suspend.
The Hon. the Speaker: To help the honourable senator, it was the
decision taken on April 6, 2006, when we adopted the 4 p.m. rule.
Senator Cools: I know that, but what is the rule number?
The Hon. the Speaker: It is not in the rules. It is a decision of the
Hon. Lowell Murray: There is one rule that I would draw to your
attention, rushing in where angels fear to tread. It is rule 66(3):
(3) When, under the provisions of any rule or order of the Senate, the
Speaker is required to interrupt the proceedings for the purpose of putting
forthwith the question on any business then before the Senate or when a
standing vote has been deferred pursuant to rule 67, the Speaker shall
interrupt the said proceedings not later than fifteen minutes prior to the
time provided for the taking of the vote and order the bells to call in the
Senators to be sounded for not more than fifteen minutes immediately
Hon. Gerald J. Comeau (Deputy Leader of the Government): We would like
to refer back to the house order which the Speaker just referred to. It is in
Debates of the Senate, issue number 3, April 5, 2006:
(c) where a vote is deferred until 5:30 p.m. on a Wednesday, the
Speaker shall interrupt the proceedings, immediately prior to any adjournment
but no later than 4 p.m., to suspend the sitting until 5:30 p.m. for the
taking of the deferred vote, and that committees be authorized to meet during
the period that the sitting is suspended.
We do not need to have any bells. It is a house order.
The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, just to be clear, prior to
four o'clock tomorrow afternoon I shall rise to suspend the sitting, the bells
will ring at 5:15 and the vote will be held at 5:30 p.m.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Hays, seconded by
the Honourable Senator Fraser, for the adoption of the second report of the
Special Senate Committee on Senate Reform (motion to amend the Constitution
of Canada (western regional representation in the Senate), without
amendment but with observations), presented in the Senate on October 26, 2006;
And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Tkachuk, seconded
by the Honourable Senator Campbell, that the second report of the Special
Senate Committee on Senate Reform be not now adopted but that the motion to
amend the Constitution of Canada (western regional representation in the
Senate), be amended as follows:
(a) by replacing, in the third paragraph of the motion, the words
"British Columbia be made a separate division represented by 12 Senators;"
with the following:
"British Columbia be made a separate division represented by 24
(b) by replacing, in clause 1 of the Schedule to the motion, in
section 21, the words "consist of One hundred and seventeen Members" with
"consist of One hundred and twenty-nine Members";
(c) by replacing, in clause 1 of the Schedule to the motion, in
section 22, the words "British Columbia by Twelve Senators;" with the
"British Columbia by Twenty-four Senators;";
(d) by striking out, in clause 2 of the Schedule to the motion, in
section 27, the words "or, in the case of British Columbia, Twelve
(e) by replacing, in clause 2 of the Schedule to the motion, in
section 28, the words "exceed One hundred and twenty-seven." with the
"exceed One hundred and thirty-nine.".—(Honourable Senator Fraser)
Hon. Joan Fraser: Honourable senators may recall that last week I
promised to speak to this motion this week, and I should like to do so now,
before, as seems likely, we again become consumed in this chamber with
consideration of matters relating to Bill S-4. This motion is very different
from that, but it is equally important.
I wish I could support this motion; I truly do. I have agonized at some
length about it because I think it was brought forward for good reasons. I
believe that Senators Austin and Murray had the best possible reasons for
putting forward this motion. We know how strong sentiment is in the West about a
perceived lack of proper representation in the Parliament of Canada and, in
particular, in the Senate of Canada. That grievance is real and it is, in many
ways, entirely legitimate. The Fathers of Confederation could not have dreamed
of the strength, numbers, weight and importance — economically, in particular,
but not only economically — that the West would have at the beginning of the
If the Fathers of Confederation had any inkling at all, they probably would
have made provision in the Constitution for adjustments to be made as time went
forward, but they did not. Therefore, we have the situation that has been so
eloquently described by Senators Austin, Murray, Hays, Tkachuk, Carney and
others of a huge region of the country where large numbers of people profoundly
believe that it is wrong that their per capita representation in the Senate
should be lower than the per capita representation in the Senate of other
I know that even if the Senate adopts this motion it will not take effect.
All it will do, and I believe all it was designed to do, is prompt negotiations,
and it is not at all inappropriate to try to prompt negotiations when a
substantial part of the country feels a substantial sense of grievance about the
basic constitutional arrangements of the country. That is an appropriate thing
to try to do. If the Senate were to adopt this resolution, it would demonstrate
that we are collectively mindful of regional concerns and regional grievances,
something we all take very seriously as our duty to be mindful of.
These are all good reasons to vote for this motion. However, I personally
cannot do so. I have come to that conclusion with much regret and after much
reflection. I cannot vote for the motion because, in addressing the real
grievances of one group of Canadians, it overlooks an even more serious
long-standing injustice done in the same section of the Constitution to another
group of Canadians, inhabitants of the entire northern half of my province, most
of whom are Inuit — most, but not all.
I shall now have to speak about the arcane, for most of us, subject of the
senatorial districts in the province of Quebec, because that is what all of this
Honourable senators will recall that at Confederation, when each region was
given 24 senators, the region of Quebec, unlike the other regions, was further
divided into 24 districts — which are set out in article 22(4) of the
Constitution Act, 1867.
The principal reason that I have been able to determine for the establishment
of these districts was for the protection of a minority in Quebec — the
protection of my minority in Quebec, English-speaking Quebecers. At the time,
people often spoke about Protestants rather than about anglophones, which is a
more recent word, but that is who they were talking about, the English-speaking
residents of Quebec.
The Fathers of Confederation, English and French alike, agreed that it was
important that that minority have some security that its interests would always
be represented in the Senate. In fact, they had various concerns. They gave us
education rights and language rights in the courts and legislature of Quebec.
They took our needs and concerns seriously.
It is not the fault of the Fathers of Confederation that, in Quebec, as in
the West, there has been massive demographic change. At the time that the
districts were set out, they corresponded to the existing electoral districts in
Quebec — the electoral districts as they represented the population in the
1860s. There have been huge population shifts since then, with the result that,
for example, my district has between 60,000 and 100,000 people. The district of
Senator Angus encompasses closer to 1 million people. These are the vagaries of
being stuck with a system established in the 1860s when people could not know
what the country would look like 140 years later. However, there the districts
are, and, by law, according to the Constitution of Canada, every senator from
Quebec represents one of those districts. We must own our property in that
district or be resident in it.
One may think that the districts have become a bit of a polite fiction,
rather like peerages in the House of Lords. I believe, for example, that Lord
Black of Crossharbour took the title of his peerage from a tube station, or so
the gossips have it. He does not claim to be the proprietor of the tube station.
In the case of the Quebec districts, however, no matter how much the reality
may have changed, they remain there. They are set out in the Constitution of
There is an anomaly that I had not realized until recently. Senator Rompkey,
in particular, was quite interested when I drew to his attention the fact that
since these districts were set up in the 1860s and the Quebec-Labrador boundary
dispute was only settled in 1927, one of the Quebec districts, les Laurentides,
actually officially includes a good-sized chunk of Labrador. We should obviously
be paying attention to this and settling it, but we are not settling it.
That is not the most serious anomaly. The most serious anomaly is that when
those districts were established in the 1860s, Quebec was only half the size
that it is today. The northern half of Quebec was not part of Quebec, so the
entire northern half of Quebec is without a senatorial district. The line runs
from halfway up the western border between Ontario and James Bay and then swoops
up on the diagonal to Labrador. If you know anything about the province of
Quebec, you know that a gigantic territory is not included in the senatorial
districts. The residents of that territory are the only Canadians who do not
have a senator. In every province and territory outside of Quebec, every senator
represents every person in that province or territory. By law, senators from
Quebec represent their districts.
We all know that Senator Watt is in practice the representative of the people
of that region and so is Senator Gill, but Senator Gill has a district of his
own. Senator Watt, however, because he is Inuit and so many people from that
region are Inuit, has made it one of his missions in this place to represent
them, and he has done a marvellous job of it. The Inuit people from that region
are fortunate to have Senator Watt as a representative. As it happens, Senator
Watt's true district is Inkerman, in southwest Quebec. Take a line from Ottawa
and head northwest and you will be in Senator Watt's district in pretty short
The districts no longer have the importance they had long ago, and for a long
time I thought I could support Senator Murray's and Senator Austin's motion in
spite of this anomaly. The more I thought about it, the more I thought that such
a choice would be wrong for me. I sit in this place as a representative of a
community that was taken into account when the Fathers made the great bargain of
Confederation and when they spent so many hours and days devising the Senate of
Canada. I cannot in good conscience vote in favour of a motion that ignores
another even more vulnerable minority in my province of Quebec.
I have been rereading the debates on this motion and two quotations moved me
when I heard them the first time and moved me again when I reread them. I would
like to leave them with honourable senators. One is from Senator Watt, on June
28, 2006, when he said:
The Aboriginal people in this country are under-represented. They happen
to be the first people to occupy this land, the great land we call Canada
Senator Watt went on to say:
I believe our people have contributed to helping the newcomers in many
different ways: safeguarding them, directing them and helping them to survive.
I think it is only fair that they return the respect.
On December 11, 2006, Senator Hubley, in a most eloquent speech that many of
us will remember, said:
. . . the promise of the Senate to provide an effective voice for a
diversity of regional and other interests. It is the promise of the Senate to
represent fairly the interests of women, racial and linguistic minorities and
our Aboriginal peoples.
Honourable senators, while Lord knows I sympathize with the grievances of the
West, I personally cannot support this motion.
The Senate proceeded to consideration of the eighth report of the Standing
Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples entitled: Safe Drinking Water for
First Nations, tabled in the Senate on May 31, 2007.—(Honourable Senator
St. Germain, P.C.)
Hon. Gerry St. Germain moved the adoption of the report.
He said: Honourable senators, two months ago the Senate mandated the
Aboriginal Peoples Committee to examine and report on recent work completed on
drinking water in First Nations' communities. Specifically, the committee
examined the November 2006 Report of the Expert Panel on Safe Drinking Water
for First Nations; the 2005 Report of the Commissioner of the Environment
and Sustainable Development on Drinking Water in First Nations Communities;
and the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development's Plan of
Action to Address Drinking Water Concerns in First Nations Communities. In
addition, honourable senators, we heard from the Assembly of First Nations, who
provided testimony addressing their review of the status of safe drinking water
in First Nations communities.
One of the essentials of daily life is access to clean drinking water.
Canadians assume that the water they drink is of high quality; however, not all
Canadians can be sure their drinking water is safe and this includes nearly
500,000 Canadians living in First Nations communities.
Governments have long known that the majority of water systems in First
Nations communities are or have been susceptible to health risks. In 1995, an
assessment carried out by the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern
Development and Health Canada found that about 25 per cent of the water systems
on reserves pose potential for health and safety risks to the First Nations
people in the affected communities.
In 2001, a follow-up assessment revealed that almost three quarters of the
drinking water systems on reserve pose significant risk. Most recently, in March
2007, the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development released a
progress report on First Nations drinking water indicating that the water
systems of 97 First Nations communities are classified as high risk. In
addition, DIAND's 2006 Protocol for Safe Drinking Water for First Nations
Communities requires that every First Nations community have a certified
water systems operator. Currently, only 37 per cent of water operators are
certified. Between 1995 and 2003, $1.9 billion was spent to build and operate
drinking water and sewer systems in First Nations communities. In addition,
another $1.6 billion will be invested between 2003 and 2008.
These investments have resulted in reducing the number of identified
high-risk drinking water systems from 193 to 97 in the past year. However,
providing safe drinking water is not just a money issue, honourable senators.
First Nations, unlike other communities, have neither laws nor regulations
governing drinking water. Provincial jurisdiction over drinking water does not
extend to reserve lands. In 2005, an audit report published by the Commissioner
of the Environment and Sustainable Development found that certain important
elements for the provision of safe water were missing. On-reserve residents did
not have an approval and licensing processes for water treatment plants and were
without ongoing monitoring. The reserves were without compliance and enforcement
mechanisms and public reporting requirements. Furthermore, no one was legally
empowered to ensure that all required drinking water tests were duly carried
out. The report revealed the many deficiencies in the design and construction of
the water systems.
Witnesses testifying before the committee all agreed in principle on the need
to establish a regulatory framework to govern the provision of drinking water in
First Nations communities. However, witnesses emphasized the importance of
ensuring that community capacity is addressed as a precondition to legislation.
Regulatory standards without the physical and human capacity to meet those
standards are unlikely to improve the quality and delivery of drinking water on
The committee is equally concerned that the department is not able to
identify the existing physical and human resource needs for the delivery of safe
water on reserves, nor is it able to identify deficiencies in those to any great
degree of certainty. Subsequently, Parliament and Canadians are not getting full
and accurate information about the quality and safety of First Nations drinking
The report recommends that the department provide for a professional audit of
water system facilities, as well as an independent needs assessment of both the
physical assets and the human resource needs of individual First Nations
communities in relation to the delivery of safe drinking water. The report also
recommends that the department undertake a comprehensive consultation process
with First Nations communities regarding legislative options, including those
set out in reports of the expert panel on safe drinking water and the AFN, with
a view to collaboratively developing such legislation.
Honourable senators, the issue here is to militate against the occurrence of
another Kashechewan incident. Failure to provide safe drinking water to First
Nations is definitely not an option.
The committee hopes that the Senate will send this report to the government
for their consideration of the two essential recommendations concerning the
delivery of safe drinking water to First Nations communities.
Honourable senators, I thank the members of the committee who worked on this
to provide these recommendations. This, like the other studies we recently
reported, is very important. It is essential for a quality lifestyle for our
First Nations people. I would like to see this report responded to as quickly as
possible by the government and delivered as quickly as possible to the
Hon. Tommy Banks: Will the honourable senator accept a question?
Senator St. Germain: Yes.
Senator Banks: The matter to which this excellent report refers has
been referred to in two other places. First, a report entitled Water in the
West by the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural
Resources, which was released just over a year and a half ago; and, second, by
Senator Grafstein's water bill. Has the honourable senator considered the way in
which Senator Grafstein's bill, if it were to become an act of Parliament, would
beneficially affect the situation to which he refers?
Senator St. Germain: There is no doubt that Senator Grafstein has put
a significant amount of effort into the study of water. We were studying the
recommendations and trying to monitor whether the recommendations brought
forward by the expert panel and the department and various other entities
dealing with this are being dealt with in a proper manner. We did not have the
opportunity to review Senator Grafstein's bill, not that it would be ignored,
and hopefully the department is taking this into consideration. I can certainly
assure the honourable senator that I will make the Minister of Indian Affairs
aware of Senator Grafstein's efforts, as well as the report from the Energy
Committee, so that, as we go forward, we take all the tools required and all the
information, which I am positive is good information, combine it together and
hopefully come to a resolution of this critical situation.
The Senate proceeded to consideration of the seventeenth report of the
Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration, (committee
budget), presented in the Senate on May 31, 2007.—(Honourable Senator Furey)
Hon. George J. Furey: Honourable senators, I move the adoption of the
The Hon. the Speaker: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to
adopt the motion?
The Senate proceeded to consideration of the tenth report of the Standing
Senate Committee on Human Rights entitled: Children: The Silenced Citizens,
tabled in the Senate on April 25, 2007.—(Honourable Senator Andreychuk)
Hon. A. Raynell Andreychuk, moved the adoption of the report.
She said: Honourable senators, before I make a few comments about the report,
I wish to thank my deputy chairs, Senator Pearson and Senator Carstairs, and my
incoming chair for their continued support on this important topic of the
Convention on the Rights of the Child. I would also be remiss if I did not
mention Senator Munson, who gave us gender balance on our steering committee and
has faithfully attended the meetings. The rest of the members I will not name,
but they have contributed both their experiences and their various commitments
to the field of children's rights.
I also wish to thank Laura Barnett, our researcher, for her extensive
understanding of international law and her commitment to the cause of children.
Vanessa Moss-Norbury and Josée Thérien, our clerks, have worked many hours to
produce this report.
In late 2004, the Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights began an
examination of Canada's international obligations with respect to the rights and
freedoms of children. In particular, the committee was concerned with Canada's
obligations under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child and
whether Canada's legislation meets our obligations under this convention.
From the outset, the committee reviewed Canada's international obligations
with respect to children's rights and freedoms as a case study reflecting the
broader implications of ensuring that domestic legislation and policies comply
with Canada's international human rights obligations.
In terms of children's rights more specifically, the committee sought to
answer the following questions: Is Canada implementing the Convention on the
Rights of the Child in domestic law and policy and, if so, how? Are all children
in Canada benefiting from the convention? Are specific groups of vulnerable
children benefiting from it? Has the convention furthered federal, provincial
and territorial policies for such children? Are the federal, provincial and
territorial governments and society responding to the challenges confronting
The committee proceeded to evaluate obstacles to the protection of children's
rights and freedoms as enunciated by the Convention on the Rights of the Child,
looking at whether Canadian policy and legislation reflect the provisions of and
are in compliance with international obligations under this international human
rights instrument. It also looked at the role of Parliament within this
The committee filed an extensive overview report in the Senate entitled
Who's in Charge Here? I acknowledge the hard work, determination and support
of Senator Pearson in its preparation.
The committee tabled its final report, entitled Children: The Silenced
Citizens — Effective Implementation of Canada's International Obligations with
Respect to the Rights of Children, in this chamber. The report discussed
Canada's approach to implementation of international law and, in particular, the
Convention on the Rights of the Child.
The report focused on specific articles of the convention to highlight the
ways in which children's rights have not been effectively implemented in Canada
in so many ways. To rectify this situation, the report recommended a variety of
measures and mechanisms to ensure more effective implementation of the
convention for Canada's approximately 7 million children, as well as proposing a
new approach to how Canada deals with its signature, ratification and
implementation of human rights treaties.
It is important to note that right from the beginning Canada played an
important role with respect to the Convention on the Rights of the Child.
Drafting of the convention took 11 years, from 1978 to 1989, during which time
Canada worked hard at the drafting table and facilitated communication between
over 40 countries with varying religious, ideological, cultural and political
Former Prime Minister Brian Mulroney was also significant in the adoption
process, jointly initiating and co-chairing the World Summit on Children at the
United Nations, in 1990, to encourage ratification of the convention and draft a
10-year plan of action for children.
Reinforced by such political will, the convention was ultimately adopted by
the United Nations in November 1989, representing the first time that the needs
and interests of children were expressly formulated in terms of human rights.
The instrument captured the imagination of world leaders and was embraced with
overwhelming enthusiasm by the entire world community. It is currently the most
widely subscribed to international treaty in history, ratified by 193 nations.
Canada was able to ratify the convention in December 1991, once all the
provinces and territories signalled their support for the convention by sending
letters of support to the federal government.
The convention contains three general principles to guide interpretation and
implementation of its more specific articles: the principle of
non-discrimination; the principle of the best interests of the child; and the
right of the child to be heard. The convention contains numerous specific rights
that deal with many aspects of children's lives, such as: the right to the
protection from all forms of violence and to health and health services; the
right to an education and an adequate standard of living; and the right to be
protected from sexual exploitation. Many of these rights are progressive rights.
Embedded in the Convention on the Rights of the Child and other modern
international human rights law is the rights-based approach, which emphasizes
the fact that all rights are equal and universal and that all people, including
children, are the subject of their own rights, and should be participants in
development rather than objects of charity.
The rights-based approach places an obligation on states to work towards
ensuring that all rights are being met. As such, the convention emphasizes the
need to focus on children as individuals with their own set of rights. The idea
is that children are not merely objects of concern to be protected but are also
to be recognized as persons in their own right. As such, they will also begin to
understand their responsibilities in society.
Viewing children's rights within this framework means that children are
afforded protection beyond the level of simple survival or basic needs, thus
facilitating the creation of a sustainable environment in which such rights can
be protected in the longer term.
Noting these valuable rights and responsibilities enshrined in the
convention, our committee looked at Canada's implementation of its international
human rights treaties on a general level. What quickly became clear is that,
traditionally, such treaties are rarely incorporated directly into Canadian law.
Instead, they are indirectly implemented at the domestic level by ensuring that
pre-existing legislation is in conformity with the obligations accepted in a
particular convention. In addition, Parliament plays no role in ratification.
Thus, international human rights treaties that are not directly incorporated
into domestic legislation completely bypass the parliamentary process.
As a result of successive governments' approaches to international human
rights treaties, the committee found that the UN Convention on the Rights of the
Child is not solidly embedded in Canadian law, in policy or in the national
psyche. Governments and courts use it only as a strongly worded guiding
principle with which they attempt to ensure that laws conform rather than acting
as if they are bound by it. Jurisdictional complexities, the absence of
effective institutions, an uncertain approach to human rights law and the lack
of transparency and political involvement indicate that the convention is being
ineffectively applied in the Canadian context. There appears to be a strong
disconnect between Canada's international obligations and domestic law.
There was a disturbing recurrence of testimony from witnesses across the
country that Canada is a country whose actions do not live up to its reputation.
Witnesses were critical of the perceived gap between the rhetoric and the
reality of children's rights in Canada. While the government attempts to conform
to the rights-based approach as enshrined in the convention in theory, many
witnesses argued that it hesitates to be bound by it in practice. In government,
even among those dedicated to protecting children's rights, knowledge of the
convention is spotty at best.
The committee discovered that some government officials working towards the
protection of children's rights seemed to operate in ignorance of the
international tool at their disposal. In many respects the convention is simply
not used as a means or framework to protect children's rights.
Throughout our hearings, we became aware that there is very little knowledge
of the convention outside academic and advocacy circles. Numerous witnesses
expressed concern about the lack of awareness in government, in Parliament,
among the public, and among children of the Convention on the Rights of the
In terms of concrete illustrations of how the convention does not appear to
be effectively applied to improve children's lives in Canada, our committee
members heard eye-opening testimony about children and youth whose futures were
at risk. We heard stories about children who were being subjected to violence
and abuse, who were being exploited sexually, who were tangled in the justice
system and had nowhere left to turn. We heard about children with disabilities
who were not receiving the services they need to grow to their full potential,
immigrant children who were separated from their families and about children who
were forced by the system to be on their own just when they were starting to put
their troubled lives together.
Among all the themes discussed in our report, serious concerns about
Aboriginal children in Canada were perhaps the most emphasized by witnesses. The
committee heard that Aboriginal children make up one of the most marginalized
and vulnerable categories of children in Canada, over-represented in a wide
variety of areas. Although Canada consistently ranks among the top countries in
the UN's Human Development Index, Canada's ranking drops to 78th when the index
isolates the economic and social well-being of Aboriginal populations.
Aboriginal children are disproportionately living in poverty and involved in
the youth criminal justice and child protection systems. Aboriginal children
also face significant health problems in comparison with other children in
Canada, such as higher rates of malnutrition, disabilities, drug and alcohol
abuse and suicide.
Ultimately, as noted in a recent meeting by one Billie Schibler, Children's
Advocate for the Province of Manitoba:
In Canada, we as a country are very clearly failing to protect our most
vulnerable, failing to preserve our most precious and presumably cherished
resource, our children. We are an advanced country. We have natural resources
and we have brilliant leaders, but unless we can find success in ensuring a
brighter future for our children, unless we can provide them with hope, unless
we can start listening and hear what they are saying, we as a province are
lost, we as a country have no future.
The Hon. the Speaker: We are at the 15-minute mark of your time,
Senator Andreychuk. It is very close to six o'clock. At six o'clock, I must
leave the chair unless there is agreement to not see the clock.
Hon. Gerald J. Comeau (Deputy Leader of the Government): Honourable
senators, I hate to do this to my colleague, but if we agree to not see the
clock, we are going to be staying here quite late tonight.
Therefore, as discussed with my counterpart on the other side, we would see
the clock, we would ask the unanimous consent of this chamber to let all matters
stand in their place on the Order Paper and we would adjourn for the evening. I
believe that is still the position of our leadership on both sides, so I would
ask that we let all matters stand in their place and wrap up for the day.
Hon. Terry Stratton: Senator Andreychuk has about two pages left of
her speech. Would it be agreeable to both sides if we were to allow her to
complete her speech and then rise?
The Hon. the Speaker: Does Senator Andreychuk have the agreement of
the house for two more minutes?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator Andreychuk: I thank you, honourable senators, because it is
important to talk about children and I appreciate that the Senate has understood
In our report, the committee emphasized that all levels of government across
Canada have a responsibility and the capacity to protect children's rights.
Certainly, there is a widespread recognition across government of the importance
of children. Throughout its hearings, the committee was overwhelmed by the
expressions of concern and care for children's rights in each jurisdiction. It
is simply a question of how effectively governments are accomplishing this task.
What is needed to push both the issue and respect for the democratic process
further is enhanced accountability, increased parliamentary and public input,
and a more open approach to compliance that promotes transparency and enhances
political will. In order to move the agenda toward resolving some of these
issues, our committee made a number of concrete recommendations in the report.
Among our committee's key recommendations was the need to ensure that the voices
of Canadian children are heard in a meaningful way.
The right of children to participate and to be heard is an important
political right. It is one of the most fundamental principles underlying the
United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. Our committee heard over
and over again how children and youth feel they are not consulted or that their
views are discounted, often on matters that have a significant impact on their
lives. Articles 12 to 15 of the convention stipulate that, in appropriate
circumstances, the child has a right to be heard in matters that affect his or
her well-being. Not only is this a right, it is an important part of effective
decision and policy making.
Our committee heard from a wide variety of children who brought their
perspectives forcefully to our attention. One youth noted:
The convention states that children have the right to their own opinions,
but we are never encouraged to speak. If we do voice our opinions, chances are
that our opinions will be discussed by policymakers who are unwilling to
listen . . . . If you walk away with anything at all today, please walk away
realizing that youth know what they want to see and know what they need to
make a difference. It is a matter of implementation from others that trust
that we know what we are doing.
Through our recommendations, the committee sought to strengthen the active
involvement of children in all institutions and processes affecting children.
Children's voices rarely inform government decisions, yet they are one of the
groups most affected by government action or inaction. Children are not merely
under-represented; they are almost not represented at all. Our committee
strongly believes that children should be meaningfully consulted on all
significant issues affecting their rights and lives.
Parents, educators and governments can help in addressing this problem by
ensuring that children are involved and consulted on issues concerning them; by
becoming aware of the convention's rights themselves — learning about their own
rights and responsibilities, as well as those of children; by putting the
convention into school curricula; by passing laws and developing policies that
are sensitive to children's rights; and by ensuring that the political will
exists and is acted on in order to ensure the effective protection of children's
rights. Our committee recommends that the federal government dedicate resources
toward ensuring that children's input is given considerable weight when laws,
policies and other decisions that have a significant impact on children's lives
are discussed or implemented at the federal level.
Another of the committee's prime observations was that nobody is in charge of
ensuring that the convention is effectively implemented in Canada, and political
will is lacking. For Canada to claim that it fully respects the rights and
freedoms of children, and to remain a human rights leader in the international
sphere, it must improve its level of actual compliance. The federal government
needs to take a lead with respect to the implementation of the convention.
The committee's report made a number of recommendations to facilitate
implementation, including recommending the establishment of an independent
children's commissioner to monitor implementation of the convention. Canada is
one of the few countries in the developed world that does not have a permanently
funded mechanism designed to monitor the protection of children's rights. Our
committee also recommended that Parliament enact legislation to establish an
independent children's commissioner to monitor such implementation. I will not
go into the details, as our report fully fleshes out what we believe the
commissioner could do for us.
To push the agenda for both children's rights and the respect for democratic
process has also been included in our report, and I believe it warrants
attention by this Senate and by the government. We need enhanced political will.
Release of our report represents a time for us to reflect on ways that
Parliament can become more effectively involved in the implementation of
international obligations with respect to children's rights.
In attempting to highlight the necessity of addressing children's rights, our
committee is fully aware that the world may have grown weary of the phrase "our
children are our future." While the statement remains true, witnesses
emphasized that the government, Parliament and civil society need to move beyond
that cliché and recognize that children are our citizens today. Only in
understanding this can we begin to foster a true culture of rights and
responsibilities for children in our society.
The Hon. the Speaker: If no other senator wishes to speak to this
report or take the adjournment of the debate, it is deemed to have been
The Senate adjourned until Wednesday, June 7, 2007, at 1:30 p.m.