Journals of the Senate
57 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2008, Canada
Journals of the Senate
(Unrevised)
2nd Session, 39th Parliament
Issue 59
Tuesday, May 13, 2008
2:00 p.m.
The Honourable Noël A. Kinsella, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Baker, Banks, Brown, Campbell, Champagne, Chaput, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Corbin, Cowan, Dallaire, Day, Di Nino, Downe, Eggleton, Eyton, Fairbairn, Fortier, Fox, Fraser, Furey, Goldstein, Grafstein, Gustafson, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Joyal, Kenny, Kinsella, Lapointe, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lovelace Nicholas, Mahovlich, Massicotte, McCoy, Merchant, Milne, Mitchell, Moore, Munson, Murray, Nancy Ruth, Oliver, Pépin, Peterson, Phalen, Poy, Prud'homme, Ringuette, Rivest, Robichaud, Rompkey, St. Germain, Smith, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Tardif, Tkachuk, Trenholme Counsell, Zimmer
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Baker, Banks, Brown, Campbell, *Carstairs, Champagne, Chaput, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, *Cools, Corbin, *Cordy, Cowan, Dallaire, *Dawson, Day, *De Bané, Di Nino, Downe, Eggleton, Eyton, Fairbairn, Fortier, Fox, Fraser, Furey, Goldstein, Grafstein, Gustafson, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Joyal, Kenny, Kinsella, Lapointe, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lovelace Nicholas, Mahovlich, Massicotte, McCoy, *Mercer, Merchant, Milne, Mitchell, Moore, Munson, Murray, Nancy Ruth, *Nolin, Oliver, Pépin, Peterson, Phalen, Poy, Prud'homme, Ringuette, Rivest, Robichaud, Rompkey, St. Germain, Smith, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Tardif, Tkachuk, Trenholme Counsell, Zimmer
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Tabling of Documents
The Honourable Senator Comeau tabled the following:
Supplementary Estimates (A), 2008-2009.—Sessional Paper No. 2/39-586.
Introduction and First Reading of Government Bills
A message was brought from the House of Commons with a Bill C-30, An Act to establish the Specific Claims Tribunal and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, to which it desires the concurrence of the Senate.
The bill was read the first time.
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Di Nino, that the bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading two days hence.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Tabling of Reports from Inter-Parliamentary Delegations
The Honourable Senator Day tabled the following:
Report of the Canadian Delegation of the Canada-Japan Inter-parliamentary Group and the Canada-China Legislative Association respecting its participation at the 16th Annual Meeting of the Asia Pacific Parliamentarians Forum, held in Auckland, New Zealand, from January 21 to 25, 2008.—Sessional Paper No. 2/39-587.
MESSAGES FROM THE HOUSE OF COMMONS
A message was brought from the House of Commons to return Bill C-293, An Act respecting the provision of official development assistance abroad.
And to acquaint the Senate that the Commons has agreed to the amendment made by the Senate to this bill, without amendment.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Oliver, seconded by the Honourable Senator Tkachuk:
That the Senate do not insist on its amendments 1 and 3 to Bill C-13, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (criminal procedure, language of the accused, sentencing and other amendments) to which the House of Commons has disagreed; and
That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House accordingly.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted, on division.
Second reading of Bill C-23, An Act to amend the Canada Marine Act, the Canada Transportation Act, the Pilotage Act and other Acts in consequence.
The Honourable Senator Oliver moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cochrane, that the bill be read the second time.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Tardif moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cowan, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Order No. 3 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Inquiries
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Third reading of Bill S-224, An Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (vacancies).
The Honourable Senator Moore moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Banks, that the bill be read the third time.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Comeau, for the Honourable Senator Brown, moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Di Nino, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 2 and 3 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Second reading of Bill S-235, An Act concerning unsolicited commercial electronic messages.
The Honourable Senator Goldstein moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Adams, that the bill be read the second time.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Tkachuk, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 5 to 15 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Commons Public Bills
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
The Order was called for resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Moore, seconded by the Honourable Senator Day, for the second reading of Bill C-253, An Act to amend the Income Tax Act (deductibility of RESP contributions).
SPEAKER'S RULING
On Tuesday, April 29, 2008, Senator Di Nino rose on a point of order respecting Bill C-253, An Act to amend the Income Tax Act (deductibility of RESP contributions). In his remarks he recognized that the Bill violates neither the Constitution Act, 1867 nor the Rules of the Senate. He did, however, argue that the Bill does not respect constitutional convention surrounding the financial initiative of the Crown and has also failed to respect normal parliamentary procedure.
After Senator Di Nino's intervention, the Senate agreed to hold further consideration of the matter over to the next day. When the item was called again, Senators Fraser, Carstairs, Moore, and Cools all expressed the view that there was no proper point of order. In particular, they argued that the Bill does not violate either constitutional provisions or Senate procedure, and that it is improper for the Senate to concern itself with the practices of the other place.
I have reviewed all these interventions, and I thank Honourable Senators for them.
On the issue of violating constitutional conventions relating to the financial initiative of the Crown, the Speaker must be extremely cautious. The responsibilities of Speaker are largely confined to the proceedings of the Senate itself. While the principle of the financial initiative of the Crown finds concrete expression in certain sections of the Constitution and the Senate's Rules, all participants in discussion on the point of order accepted that these provisions were respected. Accordingly, this issue does not need to be further addressed.
The second major issue in Senator Di Nino's point of order was that the Bill has not respected normal parliamentary processes relating to financial legislation. This point particularly relates to the specific procedures for financial legislation that exist in the House of Commons.
As Honourable Senators know, each House is master of its own procedure, within the bounds of the Constitution and the law. Just as Honourable Senators would object to the other place examining Senate procedures, it is inappropriate for the Senate to question those of the Commons. As noted in Beauchesne's, sixth edition, at citation four, one of the most important privileges is the right for each Chamber "to regulate [its own] internal proceedings..., or more specifically, to establish binding rules of procedure.'' This point has been made at different times in Speaker's rulings here in this place. In fact, reference was made to some of these rulings in debate on the point of order.
In this case, the Senate received a duly attested Message from the Commons indicating that it had passed Bill C-253 and requested the Senate's concurrence. It is not for the Senate to question how the Commons adopted the Bill. All that matters is that it was properly sent to us.
Many of the concerns raised by Senator Di Nino deal with the substance of the Bill, and are more properly matters for debate. The point of order has not been established, and debate can continue.
Ordered, That Order No. 2 (Bill C-253) be postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Nolin, seconded by the Honourable Senator Di Nino, for the second reading of Bill C-307, An Act respecting bis(2-ethylhexyl)phthalate, benzyl butyl phthalate and dibutyl phthalate.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The bill was then read the second time.
The Honourable Senator Tardif moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fraser, that the bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 4 and 5 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees
Orders No. 1 to 7 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Other
Orders No. 11, 13 (inquiries), 11 and 6 (motions) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Hubley, calling the attention of the Senate to questions concerning post-secondary education in Canada.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Andreychuk moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Di Nino, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 85 (motion), 14 (inquiry), 69, 88, 68 (motions), 16 (inquiry), 102, 96, 79, 78 (motions), 4, 12, 9, 3, 7 (inquiries), 76 (motion), 10 (inquiry) and 3 (motion) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Amended summaries of the Corporate Plan for 2008-2012 and of the Operating and Capital Budgets for 2008 of the Laurentian Pilotage Authority, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).—Sessional Paper No. 2/39-581.
Report of the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2008, pursuant to the Alternative Fuels Act, S.C. 1995, c. 20, s. 8.—Sessional Paper No. 2/39-582.
Report of the Cape Breton Growth Fund Corporation, together with the Auditor General's Report, for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2007, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 150(1).—Sessional Paper No. 2/39-583.
Summaries of the Corporate Plan for 2008-2009 to 2012-2013 and of the Operating and Capital Budgets for 2008- 2009 of the Parc Downsview Park Inc., pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).—Sessional Paper No. 2/39-584.
Summaries of the Corporate Plan for 2008-2009 to 2012-2013 and of the Operating and Capital Budgets for 2008- 2009 of the Standards Council of Canada, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).—Sessional Paper No. 2/39-585.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Oliver:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 4:38 p.m. the Senate was continued until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow.)
Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources
The name of the Honourable Senator Mitchell substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Dawson (May 8).
The name of the Honourable Senator Oliver substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Nolin (May 12).
Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry
The names of the Honourable Senators Callbeck and Mercer substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Hubley and Campbell (May 8).
The name of the Honourable Senator Gustafson substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Oliver (May 12).
Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights
The name of the Honourable Senator Goldstein added to the membership (May 8).
Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade
The name of the Honourable Senator Eyton substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Nolin (May 12).
Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce
The name of the Honourable Senator Gustafson substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Meighen (May 13).