Journals of the Senate
58 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2009, Canada
Journals of the Senate
2nd Session, 40th Parliament
Issue 75
Tuesday, December 1, 2009
2:00 p.m.
The Honourable Noël A. Kinsella, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Angus, Brazeau, Brown, Callbeck, Campbell, Carignan, Carstairs, Champagne, Charette-Poulin, Cochrane, Comeau, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, Di Nino, Downe, Dyck, Eaton, Eggleton, Fairbairn, Finley, Fortin-Duplessis, Fox, Fraser, Frum, Furey, Gerstein, Grafstein, Greene, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Housakos, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Keon, Kinsella, Lang, Lapointe, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lovelace Nicholas, MacDonald, Mahovlich, Manning, Massicotte, McCoy, Mercer, Merchant, Milne, Mitchell, Mockler, Munson, Murray, Nancy Ruth, Neufeld, Nolin, Ogilvie, Oliver, Patterson, Pépin, Peterson, Plett, Poy, Raine, Ringuette, Rivard, Rivest, Robichaud, Rompkey, Segal, Seidman, Sibbeston, Smith, St. Germain, Stewart Olsen, Stollery, Stratton, Tardif, Tkachuk, Wallace, Wallin, Watt, Zimmer
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Angus, Brazeau, Brown, Callbeck, Campbell, Carignan, Carstairs, Champagne, Charette-Poulin, Cochrane, Comeau, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, Di Nino, Downe, Dyck, Eaton, Eggleton, Fairbairn, Finley, Fortin-Duplessis, Fox, Fraser, Frum, Furey, Gerstein, Grafstein, Greene, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Housakos, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Keon, Kinsella, Lang, Lapointe, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lovelace Nicholas, MacDonald, Mahovlich, Manning, Massicotte, McCoy, Mercer, Merchant, Milne, Mitchell, Mockler, Munson, Murray, Nancy Ruth, Neufeld, Nolin, Ogilvie, Oliver, Patterson, Pépin, Peterson, Plett, Poy, Raine, Ringuette, Rivard, Rivest, Robichaud, Rompkey, Segal, Seidman, Sibbeston, Smith, St. Germain, Stewart Olsen, Stollery, Stratton, Tardif, Tkachuk, Wallace, Wallin, Watt, Zimmer
The first list records senators present in the Senate Chamber during the course of the sitting.
An asterisk in the second list indicates a senator who, while not present during the sitting, was in attendance to business, as defined in subsections 8(2) and (3) of the Senators Attendance Policy.
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Introduction and First Reading of Government Bills
A message was brought from the House of Commons with a Bill C-27, An Act to promote the efficiency and adaptability of the Canadian economy by regulating certain activities that discourage reliance on electronic means of carrying out commercial activities, and to amend the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission Act, the Competition Act, the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act and the Telecommunications Act, to which it desires the concurrence of the Senate.
The bill was read the first time.
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Mockler, that the bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading two days hence.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Orders No. 1 to 6 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Inquiries
Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Comeau, calling the attention of the Senate to Canada's Economic Action Plan — A Third Report to Canadians, tabled in the House of Commons on September 28, 2009, by the Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, the Honourable John Baird, P.C., M.P., and in the Senate on September 29, 2009.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Tkachuk moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Orders No. 1 to 5 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
° ° °
The Order was called to resume debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Ringuette, seconded by the Honourable Senator Pépin, for the second reading of Bill S-241, An Act to amend the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Act (credit and debit cards).
SPEAKER'S RULING
On November 17, Senator Oliver rose on a point of order challenging proceedings on Bill S-241, An Act to amend the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Act (credit and debit cards). He argued that the bill should be accompanied by a Royal Recommendation and should therefore not have originated in the Senate.
Senator Oliver's contention was that Bill S-241 would add an additional purpose to the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Act, creating a new oversight body and inevitably requiring additional resources and staff. He stated that such an expansion of purpose would have to be accompanied by a Royal Recommendation. Senator Oliver referred to a number of rulings from the other place, and his concerns were supported by Senator Comeau.
Senators Fraser and Tardif questioned this position. Senator Fraser noted the importance of relying on Senate precedents, suggesting that they have established that merely ancillary expenses do not prevent a bill from originating in this house. Senator Tardif, in turn, noted the importance of only addressing what is required or authorized by the specific bill under consideration. She also referred to various rulings given in the Senate.
Senators Banks and Cools also questioned whether there was a valid point of order. Senator Banks did not see how Bill S-241 mandates the creation of any new body. Instead, the new purpose would be assigned to an existing entity. Senator Cools then explained that the bill does not appropriate monies or impose taxation. As such, she did not accept that it violates the limits on bills originating in the Senate. She later identified relevant provisions of the Constitution and citations from Beauchesne.
For her part, the sponsor of the bill, Senator Ringuette, clarified that Bill S-241 would not create any new body. Instead, the additional purpose is to be assigned to an existing agency, the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions. In her defence of the bill she also referred to a past ruling given in the Senate and to Erskine May.
I wish to thank all honourable senators for their assistance with this point of order. The fundamental issue in this case has to do with the financial prerogative of the Crown. As noted at page 831 of the second edition of House of Commons Procedure and Practice, this means that "Under the Canadian system of government, the Crown alone initiates all public expenditure and Parliament may only authorize spending which has been recommended by the Governor General.'' This principle is reflected in Senate rule 81, which states that "The Senate shall not proceed upon a bill appropriating public money that has not within the knowledge of the Senate been recommended by the Queen's representative.'' The rule itself embodies some of the provisions contained in sections 53 and 54 of the Constitution Act, 1867.
The existing Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Act has as its purpose "to ensure that financial institutions and pension plans are regulated ... so as to contribute to public confidence in the Canadian financial system.'' Bill S-241 would add an additional purpose, relating to the use of credit and debit cards. This can be seen as directly relating to the act's existing purpose, since credit and debit cards are essential, indeed integral, parts of a modern financial system and the operations of financial institutions.
Bill S-241 does not contain provisions appropriating any part of the public revenue. The Superintendent of Financial Institutions already exists, supported by an office. The office is funded both by a standing appropriation and by assessments on regulated bodies. It is to this office that the new purpose would relate. It is the superintendent who would be mandated to consult with other already existing bodies.
To be clear, Bill S-241 does not mandate new hiring or other expenditures. Although the changes it proposes may impose some administrative adjustments, arguments did not establish how the new responsibility would automatically incur new public expenditures, as opposed to being accommodated within existing funding, or how any expenditures would be "new and distinct.'' The purpose to be added by Bill S-241 fits within the existing general roles and functions of the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions. In light of the available information, the ruling is, therefore, that the point of order has not been established, and debate on the motion for second reading can continue.
The Honourable Senator Oliver moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Di Nino, that debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
° ° °
Orders No. 7 to 19 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
° ° °
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Grafstein, seconded by the Honourable Senator Pépin, for the second reading of Bill S-230, An Act to amend the Bank of Canada Act (credit rating agency).
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Greene moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cochrane, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
° ° °
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Grafstein, seconded by the Honourable Senator Pépin, for the second reading of Bill S-201, An Act to amend the Library and Archives of Canada Act (National Portrait Gallery).
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Tkachuk moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Angus, Brazeau, Brown, Carignan, Cochrane, Comeau, Di Nino, Eaton, Finley, Fortin-Duplessis, Frum, Gerstein, Greene, Housakos, Keon, Lang, LeBreton, MacDonald, Manning, Mockler, Nancy Ruth, Neufeld, Nolin, Ogilvie, Oliver, Patterson, Plett, Raine, Rivard, Segal, Seidman, St. Germain , Stewart Olsen, Stratton, Tkachuk, Wallace, Wallin—38
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Callbeck, Campbell, Carstairs, Cordy, Cowan, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, Downe, Dyck, Eggleton, Fairbairn, Fox, Fraser, Furey, Grafstein, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Losier-Cool, Lovelace Nicholas, Mahovlich, Massicotte, McCoy, Mercer, Merchant, Milne, Mitchell, Munson, Murray, Pépin, Peterson, Poulin, Poy, Ringuette, Robichaud, Rompkey, Smith, Stollery, Tardif, Watt, Zimmer—44
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Nil
The Senate resumed debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Grafstein, seconded by the Honourable Senator Pépin, for the second reading of Bill S-201, An Act to amend the Library and Archives of Canada Act (National Portrait Gallery).
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The bill was then read the second time.
The Honourable Senator Grafstein moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Joyal, P.C., that the bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
° ° °
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Segal, seconded by the Honourable Senator Brown, for the second reading of Bill S-225, An Act to amend the Citizenship Act (oath of citizenship).
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
° ° °
Order No. 23 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Commons Public Bills
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees
Consideration of the thirteenth report of the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources (budget—study on the energy sector—power to hire staff and to travel), presented in the Senate on November 26, 2009.
The Honourable Senator Mitchell moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Mahovlich, that the report be adopted.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
° ° °
Consideration of the eleventh report of the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology (budget—release of additional funds (study on current social issues pertaining to Canada's largest cities)), presented in the Senate on November 26, 2009.
The Honourable Senator Eggleton, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Smith, P.C., that the report be adopted.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
° ° °
Order No. 3 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
° ° °
Resuming debate on the motion by the Honourable Senator Oliver, seconded by the Honourable Senator Brown, for the adoption of the second report of the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament (amendments to the Rules of the Senate—reinstatement of bills from the previous session of the same Parliament), presented in the Senate on March 11, 2009.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Wallace moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rivard, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
° ° °
Order No. 5 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Other
Orders No. 10 (inquiry), 13, 67, 51, 25 and 8 (motions) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
° ° °
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Grafstein, seconded by the Honourable Senator Day:
That,
(a) Canada supports the democratic aspirations of the people of Iran;
(b) Canada condemns the use of violence and force by Iranian authorities against their own people to suppress pro- democracy demonstrations following the Iranian presidential elections of June 12, 2009;
(c) Canada condemns the use of torture by Iranian authorities;
(d) Canada calls for the immediate release of all political prisoners held in Iran;
(e) Canada calls on Iran to fully respect all of its human rights obligations, both in law and in practice;
(f) Canada condemns Iran's complete disregard for legally binding UN Security Council Resolutions 1696, 1737, 1747, and 1803 and International Atomic Energy Agency requirements;
(g) Canada affirms its opposition to nuclear proliferation and condemns any pursuit by Iran of nuclear weapons capability;
(h) Canada recommends to international organizations of which it is a member that a new set of targeted sanctions be implemented against Iran, in concert with allies, unless Iran comes into compliance with its human rights and nuclear obligations in law and in practice.
After debate,
In amendment, the Honourable Senator Di Nino moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Oliver, that the motion be amended by adding a new recommendation:
(i) Canada condemns the use of discrimination, both religious and ethnic, as a means of suppressing the population of Iran.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Tardif, for the Honourable Senator Jaffer, moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Munson, that further debate on the motion in amendment be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
° ° °
Orders No. 21 (inquiry), 42, 93, 94, 9, 7 (motions), 1, 27 (inquiries), 58, 73 (motions) and 2 (inquiry) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
° ° °
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Joyal, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Grafstein:
That,
Whereas works of art and historical objects, including silver baskets offered as wedding gifts to the Duke of York (who later became King George V), as well as a porcelain set decorated with war scenes by the Canadian Maritime artist Alice Hagen, kept at the Governor General's residence at Rideau Hall but shelved during the last few years, have recently been sold online through the Department of Public Works;
Whereas there does not seem to be any adequate policy regarding the status and management of works of art and historic objects previously at Rideau Hall;
Whereas there is an urgent need to prevent the scattering of other such items without any regard to their historical character or the protection of Canadian heritage,
It is moved that this chamber:
deplore that decorative items related to Canada's history, and in the past to Rideau Hall, were sold publicly without any regard to their special importance to Canadian heritage;
express its surprise that no heritage management policy at Rideau Hall prevents such scatterings;
demand that the contents of rooms reserved for official functions at Rideau Hall be subsequently managed by an authority at arm's length from the building's occupants in order to preserve their historical character;
that the National Capital Commission carefully manage the art and artifacts previously in use at Rideau Hall; and
that surplus moveable art or decorative works of art be offered first to the Canadian Museum of Civilization, Library and Archives Canada or Canadian museums recognized for their role and mandate in preserving and promoting our country's historical heritage.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Comeau, for the Honourable Senator Andreychuk, moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Keon, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
INQUIRIES
The Honourable Senator Segal called the attention of the Senate to the seriousness of the problem posed by contraband tobacco in Canada, including the grave ramifications of the illegal sale of these products to young people, the detrimental effects on legitimate small businesses and the threat on the livelihoods of hardworking convenience store owners, and the ability of law enforcement agencies to combat those who are responsible for this illegal trade throughout Canada.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Tkachuk moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Frum, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Reports of the National Arts Centre for the fiscal year ended August 31, 2009, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2). —Sessional Paper No. 2/40-881.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Keon:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 4:59 p.m. the Senate was continued until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow.)
Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources
The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., replaced the Honourable Senator Munson (November 30, 2009).
The Honourable Senator Munson replaced the Honourable Senator Banks (November 30, 2009).
Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence
The Honourable Senator Downe replaced the Honourable Senator Banks (November 30, 2009).
The Honourable Senator Wallin replaced the Honourable Senator Lang (November 27, 2009).