Journals of the Senate
58 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2009, Canada
Journals of the Senate
2nd Session, 40th Parliament
Issue 79
Wednesday, December 9, 2009
1:30 p.m.
The Honourable Noël A. Kinsella, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Angus, Baker, Banks, Brazeau, Brown, Callbeck, Campbell, Carignan, Carstairs, Champagne, Charette-Poulin, Cochrane, Comeau, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, Demers, Di Nino, Downe, Duffy, Dyck, Eaton, Eggleton, Fairbairn, Finley, Fortin-Duplessis, Fox, Fraser, Frum, Furey, Gerstein, Grafstein, Greene, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Housakos, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Lang, Lapointe, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lovelace Nicholas, MacDonald, Mahovlich, Manning, Martin, Massicotte, McCoy, Meighen, Mercer, Milne, Mitchell, Mockler, Moore, Munson, Murray, Nancy Ruth, Nolin, Ogilvie, Oliver, Patterson, Pépin, Peterson, Plett, Poy, Raine, Ringuette, Rivard, Rivest, Robichaud, Rompkey, Segal, Seidman, Smith, St. Germain, Stewart Olsen, Stollery, Stratton, Tardif, Tkachuk, Wallace, Wallin, Watt, Zimmer
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Angus, Baker, Banks, Brazeau, Brown, Callbeck, Campbell, Carignan, Carstairs, Champagne, Charette-Poulin, Cochrane, Comeau, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, Demers, Di Nino, Downe, Duffy, Dyck, Eaton, Eggleton, Fairbairn, Finley, Fortin-Duplessis, Fox, Fraser, Frum, Furey, Gerstein, Grafstein, Greene, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Housakos, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Lang, Lapointe, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lovelace Nicholas, MacDonald, Mahovlich, Manning, Martin, Massicotte, McCoy, Meighen, Mercer, Milne, Mitchell, Mockler, Moore, Munson, Murray, Nancy Ruth, *Neufeld, Nolin, Ogilvie, Oliver, Patterson, Pépin, Peterson, Plett, Poy, Raine, Ringuette, Rivard, Rivest, Robichaud, Rompkey, Segal, Seidman, Smith, St. Germain, Stewart Olsen, Stollery, Stratton, Tardif, Tkachuk, Wallace, Wallin, Watt, Zimmer
The first list records senators present in the Senate Chamber during the course of the sitting.
An asterisk in the second list indicates a senator who, while not present during the sitting, was in attendance to business, as defined in subsections 8(2) and (3) of the Senators Attendance Policy.
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Tributes
Tribute was paid to the Honourable Senator Grafstein, who will retire from the Senate on January 2, 2010.
Senators' Statements
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Introduction and First Reading of Senate Public Bills
The Honourable Senator Peterson presented a Bill S-244, An Act to amend the Canada Post Corporation Act (rural postal services).
The bill was read the first time.
The Honourable Senator Peterson moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Lovelace Nicholas, that the bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading two days hence.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Tabling of Reports from Inter-Parliamentary Delegations
The Honourable Senator Grafstein tabled the following:
Report of the Canadian Delegation of the Canada-United States Inter-Parliamentary Group respecting its participation at the 64th Annual Meeting of the Council of State Governments' Midwestern Legislative Conference, held in Overland Park, United States, from August 9 to 12, 2009.—Sessional Paper No. 2/40-893.
Report of the Canadian Delegation of the Canada-United States Inter-Parliamentary Group respecting its participation at the Canadian/American Border Trade Alliance Conference, held in Washington, D.C., United States, from September 20 to 22, 2009.—Sessional Paper No. 2/40-894.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Reports of Committees
The Order was called for the consideration of the twelfth report of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance (Bill C-51, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on January 27, 2009 and to implement other measures, with amendments), presented in the Senate on December 8, 2009.
SPEAKER'S RULING
On December 8, Senator Comeau rose on a point of order respecting the twelfth report of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance, which proposes amendments to Bill C-51, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on January 27, 2009 and to implement other measures. The report had been presented earlier in the day and ordered placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
Senator Comeau's concern was, in essence, that the amendments contained in the report were not relevant to Bill C- 51. He referred to the second edition of House of Commons Procedure and Practice, which, at pages 766-767, notes that "an amendment is inadmissible if it proposes to amend a statute that is not before the committee or a section of the parent Act, unless the latter is specifically amended by a clause of the bill.'' Similar limitations are to be found at citation 698(8) of Beauchesne, which states:
(a) An amendment may not amend a statute which is not before the committee
(b) An amendment may not amend sections from the original Act unless they are specifically being amended in a clause of the bill before the committee.
Senator Comeau explained that the report's amendments deal with the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act. Although Bill C-51 does propose amendments to that Act, the sections that it would amend are different from those in the report. As such, he argued that the amendments in the report are out of order.
A number of other senators participated in debate. Some suggested that, since Bill C-51 opens the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act, any sections of that Act can be amended. Other senators, on the other hand, emphasized the importance for committees not to exceed their mandates. There were also some concerns expressed about the wide- ranging nature of some recent Budget Implementation Acts. Finally, Senator Ringuette, who had moved the amendments in committee, spoke to defend them.
As honourable senators know, an amendment moved in committee must respect the principle and scope of the bill, and must be relevant to it. It may generally be helpful to view the principle as the intention underlying a bill. The scope of the bill would then be related to the parameters the bill sets in reaching any goals or objectives that it contains, or the general mechanisms it envisions to fulfil its intentions. Finally, relevancy takes into account how an amendment relates to the scope or principle of the bill under examination. An amendment must respect the principle of the bill it seeks to amend, must be within its scope, and must be relevant to it.
As Senator Comeau noted, normal practice is that an amendment should not be moved that would amend an existing Act, unless the bill under consideration proposes that the Act be amended. What is more, in general, only those aspects of the original Act that are already to be amended by the bill are subject to further amendment. In the Commons, this appears to have been interpreted in a very rigid manner, that is to say that amendments that fail to respect these criteria, even if they are directly relevant or perhaps seek to correct something overlooked in error, are not acceptable.
As is often the case, and reflecting its unique approach, the Senate has not been so rigid on this point. Although the issue only comes up very rarely, practice here has tended to be that a proposed amendment to a bill amending an existing Act may deal with sections of the original Act that are not amended by the bill, provided that there is a strong and direct link between an existing clause of the bill and the change to the original Act that the proposed amendment seeks to affect.
This said, the summary of Bill C-51 indicates that the amendments it proposes to the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act are "to correct unintended consequences resulting from the inaccurate coordination of two amendment Acts.'' The amendments proposed by the twelfth report, on the other hand, deal with unfunded pensions of retirees and employees when a corporation files for bankruptcy, placing them on the same level as creditors. Without in any way speaking to the desirability of the changes proposed by the report, they exceed the quite limited nature of the amendments the bill proposes.
The ruling is that the point of order is established, and the amendments that the report proposes are out of order.
Since the report only contained amendments that have been determined to be out of order, the content of the report is evacuated. In consequence, the report proposes no amendments to Bill C-51 and, under rule 97(4), therefore stands adopted. The next question that must be put to the Senate is therefore the procedural one of "When shall this bill be read a third time?''. To be clear, this is for third reading of the bill without amendment.
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Keon, that Bill C-51 be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Bills
Orders No. 1 to 3 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
° ° °
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Greene, seconded by the Honourable Senator Manning, for the second reading of Bill S-8, An Act to implement conventions and protocols concluded between Canada and Colombia, Greece and Turkey for the avoidance of double taxation and the prevention of fiscal evasion with respect to taxes on income.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The bill was then read the second time.
The Honourable Senator Greene moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator St. Germain, P.C., that the bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
° ° °
Orders No. 5 and 6 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Inquiries
Order No. 2 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees
Consideration of the eleventh report of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance (Supplementary Estimates (B), 2009-2010), presented in the Senate on December 8, 2009.
The Honourable Senator Day moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Banks, that the report be adopted.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted, on division.
OTHER BUSINESS
Ordered, That Motions No. 110, 111 and 112 standing in the name of the Honourable Senator Tardif on the Notice Paper be brought forward.
MOTIONS
The Honourable Senator Tardif moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fraser:
That, notwithstanding rule 57(2), the following inquiry be placed on the Notice Paper for the next sitting of the Senate:
"By the Honourable Senator Tardif: That she will call the attention of the Senate to the career of the Honourable Senator Grafstein in the Senate and his many contributions in service to Canadians.''; and
That, notwithstanding rule 37(4), during proceedings on this inquiry no senator shall speak for more than three minutes.
After debate,
With leave of the Senate and pursuant to rule 30, the motion was modified to read as follows:
That, notwithstanding rule 57(2), the following inquiry be placed on the Notice Paper for later this day:
"By the Honourable Senator Tardif: That she will call the attention of the Senate to the career of the Honourable Senator Grafstein in the Senate and his many contributions in service to Canadians.''; and
That, notwithstanding rule 37(4), during proceedings on this inquiry no senator shall speak for more than three minutes.
The question being put on the motion, as modified, it was adopted.
° ° °
The Honourable Senator Tardif moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Hubley:
That, notwithstanding rule 57(2), the following inquiry be placed on the Notice Paper for the next sitting of the Senate:
"By the Honourable Senator Tardif: That she will call the attention of the Senate to the career of the Honourable Senator Milne in the Senate and her many contributions in service to Canadians.''; and
That, notwithstanding rule 37(4), during proceedings on this inquiry no senator shall speak for more than three minutes.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
° ° °
The Honourable Senator Tardif moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Milne:
That a photographer be authorized in the Senate Chamber on Thursday, December 10, 2009, during tributes for the Honourable Senator Milne, on the occasion of her retirement from the Senate, with the least possible disruption of the proceedings.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Orders No. 1 to 22 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Commons Public Bills
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees
Orders No. 1 to 5 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Other
Orders No. 73 (motion), 32 (inquiry), 105, 98, 68 (motions), 30, 10 (inquiries), 13, 67, 51, 25, 8 (motions), 21 (inquiry), 42, 93, 94, 9, 7 (motions), 1, 27 (inquiries), 58 (motion) and 2 (inquiry) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
MOTIONS
The Honourable Senator Lang moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Martin:
That in the opinion of the Senate, as the various waterways known as the "Northwest Passage'' are historic internal waters of Canada, the government should endeavour to refer to these waterways as the "Canadian Northwest Passage''.
The Honourable Senator Lang moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Champagne, P.C., that debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
° ° °
The Honourable Senator Fraser moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Milne:
That notwithstanding the Order of the Senate adopted on June 18, 2009, the date for the presentation of the final report by the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs on the provisions and operation of the DNA Identification Act (S.C. 1998, c. 37) be extended from December 31, 2009 to June 30, 2010.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Ordered, That the sitting be suspended until the time for the taking of the deferred vote.
(Accordingly, at 4:03 p.m. the sitting was suspended.)
At 4:15 p.m. the sitting resumed.
DEFERRED VOTE
At 4:30 p.m., pursuant to the Order adopted on December 8, 2009, the Senate proceeded to the taking of the deferred standing vote on the motion of the Honourable Senator Day, seconded by the Honourable Senator Joyal, P.C., for the adoption of the twelfth report of the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology (Bill C-6, An Act respecting the safety of consumer products, with amendments), presented in the Senate on December 3, 2009.
The question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Baker, Banks, Callbeck, Campbell, Carstairs, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dallaire, Day, Downe, Dyck, Eggleton, Fairbairn, Fraser, Furey, Grafstein, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kenny, Losier-Cool, Lovelace Nicholas, Mahovlich, Massicotte, McCoy, Mercer, Milne, Moore, Munson, Peterson, Poulin, Poy, Ringuette, Robichaud, Rompkey, Smith, Stollery, Tardif, Watt—42
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Angus, Brazeau, Brown, Carignan, Champagne, Cochrane, Comeau, Demers, Di Nino, Duffy, Eaton, Finley, Fortin-Duplessis, Frum, Gerstein, Greene, Housakos, Johnson, Keon, Kinsella, Lang, Lapointe, LeBreton, MacDonald, Manning, Martin, Meighen, Mockler, Nancy Ruth, Nolin, Ogilvie, Oliver, Patterson, Plett, Raine, Rivard, Seidman, St. Germain , Stewart Olsen, Stratton, Tkachuk, Wallace, Wallin—44
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Murray, Rivest—2
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Andreychuk, that Bill C-6 be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Ordered, That the sitting be suspended until the time for the taking of the deferred vote.
(Accordingly, at 4:38 p.m. the sitting was suspended.)
At 4:45 p.m. the sitting resumed.
DEFERRED VOTE
At 5 p.m., pursuant to the Order adopted on December 8, 2009, the Senate proceeded to the taking of the deferred standing vote on the motion of the Honourable Senator Fraser, seconded by the Honourable Senator Pépin, for the adoption of the twelfth report of the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs (Bill C-15, An Act to amend the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts, with amendments), presented in the Senate on December 3, 2009.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Baker, Banks, Callbeck, Campbell, Carstairs, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, Downe, Dyck, Eggleton, Fairbairn, Fox, Fraser, Furey, Grafstein, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kenny, Lapointe, Losier-Cool, Lovelace Nicholas, Mahovlich, Massicotte, McCoy, Mercer, Milne, Mitchell, Moore, Munson, Murray, Pépin, Peterson, Poulin, Poy, Ringuette, Rivest, Robichaud, Rompkey, Smith, Stollery, Tardif, Watt—49
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Angus, Brazeau, Brown, Carignan, Champagne, Cochrane, Comeau, Demers, Di Nino, Duffy, Eaton, Finley, Fortin-Duplessis, Frum, Gerstein, Greene, Housakos, Johnson, Keon, Kinsella, Lang, LeBreton, MacDonald, Manning, Martin, Meighen, Mockler, Nancy Ruth, Ogilvie, Oliver, Patterson, Plett, Raine, Rivard, Segal, Seidman, St. Germain , Stewart Olsen, Stratton, Tkachuk, Wallace, Wallin—43
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Nil
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Di Nino, that Bill C-15, as amended, be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Ordered, That the sitting be suspended until 8 p.m.
(Accordingly, at 5:08 p.m. the sitting was suspended.)
At 8 p.m. the sitting resumed.
MESSAGES FROM THE HOUSE OF COMMONS
A message was brought from the House of Commons with a Bill C-62, An Act to amend the Excise Tax Act, to which it desires the concurrence of the Senate.
The bill was read the first time.
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, that the bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Report of the Canadian Polar Commission, together with the Auditor General's Report, for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2009, pursuant to the Canadian Polar Commission Act, S.C. 1991, c. 6, sbs. 21(2).—Sessional Paper No. 2/ 40-892.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Demers:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 8:02 p.m. the Senate was continued until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow.)
Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources
The Honourable Senator Meighen replaced the Honourable Senator Neufeld (December 9, 2009).
The Honourable Senator Neufeld replaced the Honourable Senator Frum (December 9, 2009).
Standing Senate Committee on National Finance
The Honourable Senator Carstairs, P.C., replaced the Honourable Senator Chaput (December 9, 2009).
The Honourable Senator Stratton replaced the Honourable Senator Lang (December 8, 2009).
The Honourable Senator Eggleton, P.C., replaced the Honourable Senator Baker, P.C. (December 8, 2009).
The Honourable Senator Chaput replaced the Honourable Senator Carstairs, P.C. (December 8, 2009).
Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence
The Honourable Senator Dallaire replaced the Honourable Senator Day (December 9, 2009).
The Honourable Senator Downe replaced the Honourable Senator Zimmer (December 9, 2009).
The Honourable Senator Zimmer replaced the Honourable Senator Mitchell (December 8, 2009).