The Members convened were:

The Honourable Senators

AdlerAl ZaibakAndersonArnoldArnotAtaullahjanAucoinAudetteBattersBlackBoehmBoudreauBoyerBrazeauBureyBussonCardozoCarignanClementCormierCoyleCuznerDalphondDaskoDeacon (Nova Scotia)Deacon (Ontario)DeanDhillonDowneDuncanForestFrancisFridhandlerGagnéGerbaGignacGoldGreenwoodHarderHayHébertHenkelHousakosInceKaretak-LindellKingstonKlyneKutcherLaBoucane-BensonLewisLoffredaMacAdamMacDonaldManningMarshallMartinMassicotteMcCallumMcNairMcPhedranMégieMiville-DechêneMohamedMoodieMoreauMuggliOslerOudarPatePetitclercPettenPoirierProsperPupatelloQuinnRavaliaRichardsRinguetteSaint-GermainSeidmanSeniorSimonsSmithSorensenSuretteTannasVaroneVernerWallinWells (Alberta)Wells (Newfoundland and Labrador)WhiteWilsonWooYouanceYussuff

The Members in attendance to business were:

The Honourable Senators

AdlerAl ZaibakAndersonArnoldArnotAtaullahjanAucoinAudetteBattersBlackBoehmBoudreauBoyerBrazeauBureyBussonCardozoCarignanClementCormierCoyleCuznerDalphondDaskoDeacon (Nova Scotia)Deacon (Ontario)DeanDhillonDowneDuncanForestFrancisFridhandlerGagnéGerbaGignacGoldGreenwoodHarderHayHébertHenkelHousakosInceKaretak-LindellKingstonKlyneKutcherLaBoucane-BensonLewisLoffredaMacAdamMacDonaldManningMarshallMartinMassicotteMcCallumMcNairMcPhedranMégieMiville-DechêneMohamedMoodieMoreauMuggliOslerOudarPatePetitclercPettenPoirierProsperPupatelloQuinnRavaliaRichardsRinguetteSaint-GermainSeidmanSeniorSimonsSmithSorensenSuretteTannasVaroneVernerWallinWells (Alberta)Wells (Newfoundland and Labrador)WhiteWilsonWooYouanceYussuff

The first list records senators present in the Senate Chamber during the course of the sitting.

An asterisk in the second list indicates a senator who, while not present during the sitting, was in attendance to business, as defined in subsections 8(2) and (3) of the Senators Attendance Policy.

PRAYERS

Senators’ Statements

Some Honourable Senators made statements.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

Tabling of Reports from Interparliamentary Delegations

The Honourable Senator Forest tabled the following:

Report of the Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie, Participation of Francis Drouin, M.P., President of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie, at the 30th anniversary of the commemoration of the genocide, Kigali, Rwanda, April 6 and 7, 2024.—Sessional Paper No. 1/45-81.

Report of the Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie, Meetings of the APF Presidency, Paris, France, and Luxembourg, Luxembourg, from April 22 to 26, 2024.—Sessional Paper No. 1/45-82.

Report of the Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie, Meetings of the APF Political Committee and Working Group on Reforming the APF Constitution, Luxembourg, Luxembourg, from April 27 to 30, 2024.—Sessional Paper No. 1/45-83.

Report of the Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie, 30th Regional Assembly of the Africa Region of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie, Yaoundé, Cameroon, May 28 and 29, 2024.—Sessional Paper No. 1/45-84.

Report of the Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie, 36th Session of the Regional Assembly of Europe, Pristina, Kosovo, from November 11 to 13, 2024.—Sessional Paper No. 1/45-85.

Report of the Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie, Meeting of the Commission on Economic, Social and Environmental Affairs of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie and Economic Parliamentary Symposium, Budapest, Hungary, from April 2 to 4, 2025.—Sessional Paper No. 1/45-86.

Question Period

The Senate proceeded to Question Period.

Orders of the Day

Government Business

Bills – Second Reading

Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

Motions

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Gold, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator LaBoucane-Benson:

That the following Address be presented to His Majesty the King:

To His Most Excellent Majesty Charles the Third, by the Grace of God King of Canada and His other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.

MAY IT PLEASE YOUR MAJESTY:

We, Your Majesty’s most loyal and dutiful subjects, the Senate of Canada in Parliament assembled, beg leave to offer our humble thanks to Your Majesty for the gracious Speech which Your Majesty has addressed to both houses of Parliament.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator LaBoucane-Benson moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Gold, P.C., that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

o o o

The Honourable Senator Gold, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator LaBoucane-Benson:

That, notwithstanding any provision of the Rules, previous order or usual practice, for the remainder of the current session:

1.with effect from the time the Senate adopts a report of the Committee of Selection concerning the membership of committees or the adoption of this order, whichever comes later, when the Senate sits on a Wednesday, it adjourn at 4 p.m., as if that were the ordinary time of adjournment provided for in the Rules, unless it has been suspended for the purpose of taking a deferred vote or has earlier adjourned; provided that if a vote is deferred to a Wednesday, or to later that same day on a Wednesday, it take place at 4:15 p.m., with the Speaker interrupting the proceedings immediately prior to any adjournment, but no later than 4 p.m., to suspend the sitting until 4:15 p.m. for the taking of the deferred vote, with the bells to start ringing at 4 p.m.;

2.when the Senate sits on a Thursday, it sit at 1:30 p.m.;

3.the Senate invite any minister of the Crown who is not a member of the Senate to attend the Senate, at least once every second week that the Senate sits, during Question Period at a time and on a date to be determined by the Government Representative in the Senate, after consultation with the Leader of the Opposition and the leaders and facilitators of all recognized parties and recognized parliamentary groups, and take part in proceedings by responding to questions relating to their ministerial responsibilities, subject to the rules and orders then in force, subject to the following conditions:

(a)neither senators when asking questions, nor the minister when answering, need stand;

(b)the Government Representative in the Senate, in consultation with the Leader of the Opposition, and the leaders and facilitators of all recognized parties and recognized parliamentary groups, determine the minister to appear during such Question Period;

(c)at the beginning of Orders of the Day, the Government Representative in the Senate or the Legislative Deputy to the Government Representative in the Senate inform the Senate, as soon as possible in advance, but no later than the sitting day that would precede the day on which the minister would appear, of the time and date for Question Period with a minister, and the designated minister;

(d)if a standing vote would conflict with the time for Question Period with a minister pursuant to this order, the vote be postponed until immediately after the conclusion of Question Period;

(e)if the bells are ringing for a standing vote at the time for Question Period with a minister pursuant to the terms of this order, they be interrupted for Question Period at that time, and resume thereafter for the balance of any time remaining;

(f)senators be limited to one minute for any main question, ministers have up to one minute and thirty seconds to respond to a main question, senators have up to 45 seconds to ask one supplementary question, and ministers have up to 45 seconds to respond to this supplementary question; and

(g)the Question Period last a maximum of 64 minutes;

4.during any other Question Period, main questions and responses be limited to one minute each, followed by a maximum of one supplementary question per main question, with these supplementary questions and responses being limited to a maximum of 30 seconds each;

5.the Committee of Selection be a standing committee;

6.the Standing Senate Committee on National Security, Defence and Veterans Affairs be composed of 12 senators, in addition to the ex officio members, provided that if members have been named to the committee before the adoption of this order, the additional members be recommended by the Committee of Selection;

7.without affecting any authority separately granted to a committee to meet while the Senate is sitting:

(a)committees scheduled to meet on a Tuesday be authorized to do so as of 6:30 p.m., even if the Senate is then sitting, provided that the Senate has completed Government Business for the sitting; and

(b)other committees that are meeting on government business be authorized to meet on Tuesdays as of 6:30 p.m. or the end of Government Business, whichever comes later, provided that a majority of the whips and liaisons have given their approval and subject to capacity and the availability of necessary resources; and

(c)for greater certainty, the authority granted to leaders and facilitators, or their designates, under section 3 of Chapter 5:03 of the Senate Administrative Rules be, subject to capacity and the availability of services, unaffected by the provisions of this order;

8.joint committees be authorized, as far as the Senate is concerned, to hold hybrid meetings or meetings entirely by videoconference, with the following provisions applying in relation to any such meeting:

(a)all members participating count towards quorum;

(b)such meetings be considered to be occurring in the parliamentary precinct, irrespective of where participants may be located, subject to subpoint (d)(i);

(c)the committee be directed to approach in camera meetings with the utmost caution and all necessary precautions, taking account of the risks to the confidentiality of in camera proceedings inherent in such technologies; and

(d) subject to variations that may be required by the circumstances, to participate in a meeting of the committee by videoconference senators must:

(i)participate from a designated office or designated residence within Canada;

(ii)use a device and a headset with integrated microphone provided by the Senate and authorized for videoconferences with interpretation;

(iii)be the only people visible during the videoconference;

(iv)have their video on and broadcasting their image at all times, unless the meeting is suspended; and

(v)leave the videoconference if they leave their seat, unless the meeting is suspended;

9.any Senate committee be authorized to appoint senators who are not members of the committee to its subcommittees, other than its Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure, provided that, for greater certainty, no member of the Standing Committee on Audit and Oversight may be appointed to a subcommittee of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration under the terms of this order, and vice versa; and

10.the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources be authorized to appoint the Legislative Deputy of the Government as a non-voting member to its Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure, if it has such a subcommittee, without, for greater certainty, the limitation in point 9 applying;

That the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament:

1.be authorized to examine and report on the inclusion of provisions relating to Question Period with a minister into the Rules of the Senate, including recommendations for amendments; and

2.submit its final report no later than December 18, 2025; and

That a message be sent to the House of Commons in relation to point 8 of the first paragraph of this order, to acquaint that house accordingly.

After debate,

In amendment, the Honourable Senator Quinn moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Prosper:

That the motion be not now adopted, but that it be amended by deleting point 10, dealing with the membership of the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure of the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources.

After debate,

The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived, on division.

The Senate resumed debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Gold, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator LaBoucane-Benson:

That, notwithstanding any provision of the Rules, previous order or usual practice, for the remainder of the current session:

1.with effect from the time the Senate adopts a report of the Committee of Selection concerning the membership of committees or the adoption of this order, whichever comes later, when the Senate sits on a Wednesday, it adjourn at 4 p.m., as if that were the ordinary time of adjournment provided for in the Rules, unless it has been suspended for the purpose of taking a deferred vote or has earlier adjourned; provided that if a vote is deferred to a Wednesday, or to later that same day on a Wednesday, it take place at 4:15 p.m., with the Speaker interrupting the proceedings immediately prior to any adjournment, but no later than 4 p.m., to suspend the sitting until 4:15 p.m. for the taking of the deferred vote, with the bells to start ringing at 4 p.m.;

2.when the Senate sits on a Thursday, it sit at 1:30 p.m.;

3.the Senate invite any minister of the Crown who is not a member of the Senate to attend the Senate, at least once every second week that the Senate sits, during Question Period at a time and on a date to be determined by the Government Representative in the Senate, after consultation with the Leader of the Opposition and the leaders and facilitators of all recognized parties and recognized parliamentary groups, and take part in proceedings by responding to questions relating to their ministerial responsibilities, subject to the rules and orders then in force, subject to the following conditions:

(a)neither senators when asking questions, nor the minister when answering, need stand;

(b)the Government Representative in the Senate, in consultation with the Leader of the Opposition, and the leaders and facilitators of all recognized parties and recognized parliamentary groups, determine the minister to appear during such Question Period;

(c)at the beginning of Orders of the Day, the Government Representative in the Senate or the Legislative Deputy to the Government Representative in the Senate inform the Senate, as soon as possible in advance, but no later than the sitting day that would precede the day on which the minister would appear, of the time and date for Question Period with a minister, and the designated minister;

(d)if a standing vote would conflict with the time for Question Period with a minister pursuant to this order, the vote be postponed until immediately after the conclusion of Question Period;

(e)if the bells are ringing for a standing vote at the time for Question Period with a minister pursuant to the terms of this order, they be interrupted for Question Period at that time, and resume thereafter for the balance of any time remaining;

(f)senators be limited to one minute for any main question, ministers have up to one minute and thirty seconds to respond to a main question, senators have up to 45 seconds to ask one supplementary question, and ministers have up to 45 seconds to respond to this supplementary question; and

(g)the Question Period last a maximum of 64 minutes;

4.during any other Question Period, main questions and responses be limited to one minute each, followed by a maximum of one supplementary question per main question, with these supplementary questions and responses being limited to a maximum of 30 seconds each;

5.the Committee of Selection be a standing committee;

6.the Standing Senate Committee on National Security, Defence and Veterans Affairs be composed of 12 senators, in addition to the ex officio members, provided that if members have been named to the committee before the adoption of this order, the additional members be recommended by the Committee of Selection;

7.without affecting any authority separately granted to a committee to meet while the Senate is sitting:

(a)committees scheduled to meet on a Tuesday be authorized to do so as of 6:30 p.m., even if the Senate is then sitting, provided that the Senate has completed Government Business for the sitting; and

(b)other committees that are meeting on government business be authorized to meet on Tuesdays as of 6:30 p.m. or the end of Government Business, whichever comes later, provided that a majority of the whips and liaisons have given their approval and subject to capacity and the availability of necessary resources; and

(c)for greater certainty, the authority granted to leaders and facilitators, or their designates, under section 3 of Chapter 5:03 of the Senate Administrative Rules be, subject to capacity and the availability of services, unaffected by the provisions of this order;

8.joint committees be authorized, as far as the Senate is concerned, to hold hybrid meetings or meetings entirely by videoconference, with the following provisions applying in relation to any such meeting:

(a)all members participating count towards quorum;

(b)such meetings be considered to be occurring in the parliamentary precinct, irrespective of where participants may be located, subject to subpoint (d)(i);

(c)the committee be directed to approach in camera meetings with the utmost caution and all necessary precautions, taking account of the risks to the confidentiality of in camera proceedings inherent in such technologies; and

(d) subject to variations that may be required by the circumstances, to participate in a meeting of the committee by videoconference senators must:

(i)participate from a designated office or designated residence within Canada;

(ii)use a device and a headset with integrated microphone provided by the Senate and authorized for videoconferences with interpretation;

(iii)be the only people visible during the videoconference;

(iv)have their video on and broadcasting their image at all times, unless the meeting is suspended; and

(v)leave the videoconference if they leave their seat, unless the meeting is suspended;

9.any Senate committee be authorized to appoint senators who are not members of the committee to its subcommittees, other than its Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure, provided that, for greater certainty, no member of the Standing Committee on Audit and Oversight may be appointed to a subcommittee of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration under the terms of this order, and vice versa; and

10.the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources be authorized to appoint the Legislative Deputy of the Government as a non-voting member to its Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure, if it has such a subcommittee, without, for greater certainty, the limitation in point 9 applying;

That the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament:

1.be authorized to examine and report on the inclusion of provisions relating to Question Period with a minister into the Rules of the Senate, including recommendations for amendments; and

2.submit its final report no later than December 18, 2025; and

That a message be sent to the House of Commons in relation to point 8 of the first paragraph of this order, to acquaint that house accordingly.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

AdlerAl ZaibakArnoldArnotAtaullahjanBattersBlackBoudreauBoyerBureyBussonCardozoClementCormierDalphondDaskoDeacon (Nova Scotia)Deacon (Ontario)DeanDhillonDowneDuncanForestFrancisFridhandlerGerbaGoldGreenwoodHayHébertHenkelHousakosInceKaretak-LindellLaBoucane-BensonLewisLoffredaMacAdamMacDonaldManningMartinMassicotteMcNairMégieMiville-DechêneMohamedMuggliOudarPatePetitclercPettenPoirierProsperPupatelloQuinnRinguetteSaint-GermainSeidmanSeniorSimonsSmithSuretteTannasVaroneWells (Alberta)WhiteWilsonYouance—68

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

AndersonMcCallumMcPhedranRichardsWells (Newfoundland and Labrador)—5

ABSTENTIONS

The Honourable Senators

MoodieVernerWallin—3

Other Business

Senate Public Bills – Second Reading

Orders No. 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

o o o

Second reading of Bill S-206, An Act to develop a national framework for a guaranteed livable basic income.

The Honourable Senator Pate moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Duncan, that the bill be read for the second time.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Martin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Wells (Newfoundland and Labrador), that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

o o o

Orders No. 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

o o o

Second reading of Bill S-212, An Act respecting a national strategy for children and youth in Canada.

The Honourable Senator Moodie moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Coyle, that the bill be read for the second time.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Ataullahjan moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Martin, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

o o o

Orders No. 13, 14, 15 and 16 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

o o o

Second reading of Bill S-217, An Act to amend the Canada Revenue Agency Act (reporting on unpaid income tax).

The Honourable Senator Downe moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Prosper, that the bill be read for the second time.

After debate,

The Honourable Senator Martin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Seidman, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

---

The Senate observed a minute of silence in memory of the Honourable Marc Garneau, P.C.

ADJOURNMENT

With leave of the Senate,

The Honourable Senator LaBoucane-Benson moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Petten:

That the Senate do now adjourn.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

(Accordingly, at 6:21 p.m., the Senate was continued until tomorrow at 1:30 p.m.)

DOCUMENTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 14-1(7)

Report of the National Film Board, together with the Auditor General’s Report, for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2024, pursuant to the National Film Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. N-8, sbs. 20(2).—Sessional Paper No. 1/45-78.

Summary of the amended Corporate Plan for 2024-25 to 2028-29 of The Jacques Cartier and Champlain Bridges Inc., pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).—Sessional Paper No. 1/45-79.

Report of the Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer, entitled Canada Disability Benefit, pursuant to the Parliament of Canada Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. P-1, sbs. 79.2(2).—Sessional Paper No. 1/45-80.