Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Legal and
Constitutional Affairs
Issue 58 - Evidence
OTTAWA, Wednesday, April 16, 1997
The Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs met this day at 7:48 p.m. to give consideration to the Regulations pursuant to subsections 7(6) and (7) of the Referendum Act.
Senator Sharon Carstairs (Chair) in the Chair.
[English]
The Chair: Good evening, senators. We are here tonight to hear from Ms Holly McManus of Legal Services and Mr. Jacques Girard, Director of Legal Services for Elections Canada. I believe all senators received regulations pursuant to subsection 7(6) and (7) of the Referendum Act. I know that our witnesses have a few opening comments, following which we will have the opportunity to ask questions.
The floor is yours, Mr. Girard.
[Translation]
Mr. Jacques Girard, Director, Legal Services, Elections Canada: Madam Chair, since it's been a long day for everyone, we shall keep our opening remarks to the minimum. Basically, we had the opportunity to read a document prepared for committee members by Mr. Robertson in which he describes the procedure to be followed to regulate referendums.
I will therefore ask Ms McManus to give you a brief summary of the procedure and what was done to arrive at the final result you have before you today, after which, of course, we will answer questions, if any. I would ask Ms McManus to take over now.
[English]
Ms Holly McManus Legal Counsel, Elections Canada: Pursuant to section 7(3) of the Referendum Act, the Chief Electoral Officer may, by regulation, adapt the Canada Elections Act for the purposes of a referendum. In 1992, when the Referendum Act came into force, the initial exercise was undertaken and that resulted in SOR/92-430, the first regulation adapting the Canada Elections Act for the purposes of a referendum.
In 1993, Bill C-114 made significant changes to the Canada Elections Act, particularly with respect to special voting rules, and it was at this point that a further amendment of the regulation was undertaken. This second chapter, if you will, resulted in SOR/95-304.
In December of 1996, Bill C-63 received Royal Assent. This act amended the Canada Elections Act for various reasons, the main reason being to allow for the establishment of a permanent register of electors. Consequently, the regulation had to be amended once again, and this is the proposed regulation which you have before you this evening.
I would be happy either to answer any of your questions or to go through the technical procedure that was followed in making this regulation.
The Chair: Let me begin, and we will them move to the senators to determine what areas they might want to have clarified.
I have been through the bill, and I have also read the report from our Library of Parliament researcher. I cannot see anything which indicates to me that it is particularly controversial. Can you point to any aspect wherein you had difficulty with in arriving at this specific regulation or concept? Perhaps you can educate us.
Mr. Girard: As you are aware, when the legislation was drafted in 1992, we were facing time constraints, so the Referendum Act is very short in itself. Parliament decided that the act in place for an election would apply to the referendum.
You asked if there were any contentious provisions or specific problems we faced while elaborating the regulation. The answer is, "Not really," because the regulation mirrors the Canada Elections Act. It is basically the same except, of course, that in the Canada Elections Act we refer to "elections officers," and in the Referendum Regulation we refer to "referendum officers."
The challenge of the regulation lies with having to play with four pieces of different legislation or regulations and putting them all together. I spoke with the researcher, and he spent a good part of his weekend just trying to figure out how it worked. That is the main challenge of the piece of regulation before you today.
Senator Jessiman: I should like to have confirmed the times the polls close. I refer to section 105 of the Elections Act. Would these people be knowledgeable as to how these times came about? It appears from what I am reading at section 105 that Newfoundland is the first one to close, at 8:30 their time, and then the Atlantic is next to come in because they would close at 8:30 their time, which would be a half hour after Newfoundland. Then Eastern and Central will close at the same time, both being an hour different now. If Eastern closes at 9:30, Central closes at 8:30. Mountain Time is the same as Central, so 7:30 Mountain Time would be 8:30 Central.
Eastern, Central and Mountain all close at the same time, but they close at different times because they are in different zones.
Mr. Girard: Except for Atlantic time, that is correct.
Senator Jessiman: Atlantic and Pacific. Pacific will be closing a half hour earlier because they close at 7:00.
Mr. Girard: Yes, exactly. Those hours are exactly the same as the ones in the Canada Elections Act.
Senator Jessiman: Yes. I am reading from the act. Is that because four of them are actually the same?
Mr. Girard: Yes.
Senator Jessiman: Pardon me, three of them. Eastern, Central and Mountain are all the same. They are different hours, but, because they are different zones, they end up closing at the same time.
Senator Pearson: Contemporaneously.
Senator Jessiman: Yes, at the same time, but different hours.
Mr. Girard: It is different in Pacific time because it takes about half an hour to get the results from a polling station. The results in Pacific Time will not be available until 7:30. If you take that into account, it becomes available almost at the same time.
The effect is that, on referendum night or election night, we can learn the results of the Maritimes in advance, but, for the rest of the country, the results will be available at about the same time all across Canada.
Senator Jessiman: I thought Newfoundland and the Maritimes could not disclose.
Mr. Girard: No, you are right.
Senator Jessiman: You said you could find out.
The Chair: Senator Jessiman, if I may interject. I have normally spent my life living in Western Canada, but my brothers and sisters all live in Halifax. Within half an hour of Halifax closing, I get on the phone to find out what is happening down there. You cannot stop that. You can stop public dissemination from radio and television sources; however, no one will police individuals who are phoning their brothers and sisters.
Senator Jessiman: As well, they are not allowed to put the results on the Web.
The Chair: Yes.
Senator Doyle: I assume from what you said that matters like rules have not been changed other than to accommodate language vis-à-vis referendum and election. For instance, page 61 of the consolidation refers to provisions requiring presence of agents. I assume that that would be unchanged other than any simple reference or difference made between election and referendum. There are no new rules in here.
Some rules have been repealed. How did that come about? Did it come about because of the consolidation in another rule?
Mr. Girard: The adaptation was to take into account recent amendments to the Canada Elections Act. You are right in that changes made from a language perspective because these are two different realities. It also went a bit farther than that. We changed the hour for polling for an election, and we have to make the same change for a referendum. They are both of substance and technical, but, again, it mirrors the Canada Elections Act.
You referred to agents. Sometimes you have a provision in the Referendum Act which is specific, and we did not touch it because we do not have the power to amend the Referendum Act ourselves. Everything that was in the act is still there and has not been modified.
Senator Doyle: Moving along to the next page, section 117 is repealed. What would be the kind of thing that would be repealed? If you have already explained it, I apologize for being a bit dense on this.
Mr. Girard: Section 117.(1) has been repealed, not (2).
Senator Doyle: I am sorry. Proceedings at the Poll, page 62.
Mr. Girard: It is repealed because the Canada Elections Act was amended. Subsection (1) of 117 was repealed; therefore, we must make a similar correction in the regulation.
Senator Doyle: In other words, that has advanced farther. You are simply noting that it has been repealed.
Mr. Girard: That is correct.
Senator Milne: I have three questions, and you can probably answer them all together. How is the permanent voters list going? Is enumeration running as smoothly as it normally does? Are you on target for publication in the Canada Gazette on April 26?
Mr. Girard: The enumeration finished today. Actually, it will end today in Ottawa, our time, at nine o'clock. Because of weather conditions, we must extend the enumeration for perhaps one day in approximately 30 polling divisions across the country, mainly in Western Arctic and Inuvik.
Senator Milne: Fortunately, the floods held off.
Mr. Girard: Yes, fortunately. Everything is going according to plan. As of tonight, on April 26, we publish a notice in the Gazette that the list has been prepared and that the register is in place and that an election can be called with the new calendar.
The Chair: May I ask a very practical question? An enumerator knocked on my door in Ottawa on Saturday. He wanted to enumerate me. I said, no, I did not want to be enumerated because I wanted to be enumerated in Manitoba. I was then informed that enumeration would end today, and I knew I would not be getting out of Ottawa today. What do I do?
Mr. Girard: I guess you have your residence in Manitoba.
The Chair: Yes.
Mr. Girard: When you return to Manitoba, you will have a registration form at your door. You just fill it out. It is pre-addressed. Send it off, and your name will be on the register.
The Chair: Is there a deadline for getting that in?
Mr. Girard: No, because we have a permanent register.
Senator Milne: Will she then be on the preliminary list, or will it be too late to be on the preliminary list which the parties use for their spending limits?
Mr. Girard: It will depend when the form is sent back to us and when the election is called. If we receive the card tomorrow, I would say yes, the person's name would be on the register. If it is sent after the election is called, obviously not. We would rather have a list the first day an election is called. That is the preliminary list.
The Chair: Just to add an extra complication to this, I actually live in rural Manitoba. I do not have a mail box. I get my mail at a general delivery box office.
Mr. Girard: That card would have been left by the enumerator at your door.
The Chair: Now I have my questions answered. I can vote in the election which we are all anticipating soon.
Senator Milne: You might have cost your candidate 50 cents in election expenses.
The Chair: That means I have to add another 50 cents to the candidate of my choice.
Senator Jessiman: The Gazette is published on April 26, which is a Saturday. I guess that is not unusual.
Mr. Girard: The Gazette is usually published on Saturday, yes. On publication of this notice, the other provision of Bill 63, which is the calendar and the staggered hours, comes into force. Therefore, an election called on that day and afterward will be on the 36-day calendar. If you count the 36 days, the first date on which an election can be held on the 36 day calendar would be June 2.
Senator Jessiman: Yes. I have counted it.
Mr. Girard: I am glad we have the same results on that.
The Chair: Thank you for your presentation.
We have one decision to make, honourable senators, and that is that we are not required to report this back to the Senate. The fact that we have had a meeting and have reviewed the regulations with election officials is sufficient. However, if you would like me to make a report indicating that we have reviewed the regulations and them satisfactory, I will do so. What would you like to do?
Just so this committee has a few items at the back of their head, we have now had four bills referred to us. We have Bill C-17, which is an omnibus Criminal Code amendment. We have Bill C-27, which is the sexual prostitution, sex crimes, genital mutilation bill. We have had Bill C-55, which is an offenders bill.
Am I right that you would like me to just report back to the Senate that we should study the regulations?
Honourable Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: All right. We will do that. Thank you.
The committee adjourned.