Proceedings of the Subcommittee on
Transportation Safety
Issue 1 - Evidence for May 4, 2000
OTTAWA, Thursday, May 4, 2000
[English]
The Subcommittee on Transportation Safety of the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications met this day at 1:05 p.m. to organize the activities of the committee.
Mr. Michel Patrice, Clerk of the Committee: Honourable senators, I see a quorum. As clerk of your subcommittee, it is my duty to preside over the election of the chairman. Are there any nominations?
Senator Adams: I move that Senator Forrestall be chairman of the subcommittee.
Mr. Patrice: Are there any other nominations?
There being no other nominations, it is moved by Senator Adams that the Honourable Senator Forrestall be chairman of this committee.
Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt this motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Mr. Patrice: Carried. I invite Senator Forrestall to take the Chair.
Senator J. Michael Forrestall (Chairman) in the Chair.
The Chairman: Honourable senators, I should like to have, if I could, motions with respect to the election of the deputy chair.
Senator Roberge: I propose Senator Adams for the position of deputy chairman.
Senator Forrestall: If there are no further nominations, is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried. With respect to the agenda and procedure, we need a motion that the chair and deputy chair be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the subcommittee with respect to its agenda, and to invite witnesses and schedule hearings. May I have a motion to that effect?
Senator Callbeck: I so move.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried. We need a motion to print the subcommittee's proceedings, the usual number being 150 copies, and that the chair be authorized to adjust that number from time to time to meet demand. May I have a motion to that effect?
Senator Adams: I so move.
Senator Callbeck: How many copies are generally printed?
The Chairman: We start with 150. If we said 250, we know that would cover everything, but then we might be wasting money. We take the lower number and make an adjustment. From time to time, depending on the importance of our hearing and the interest in it, we adjust that number to meet the demand.
Senator Callbeck: All right.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried. May I have a motion for authorization to hold meetings and to print evidence when a quorum is not present?
Senator Callbeck: How many are on the committee?
The Chairman: There are five. Pursuant to rule 89, this would authorize the chair to hold meetings, to receive and authorize the printing of evidence when a quorum is not present, provided that a representative of the government and a representative from the opposition are present.
Senator Callbeck: That is fine.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried. May I have a motion that the subcommittee ask the Library of Parliament to assign a research officer to assist us in our work, that the chair and deputy chair be authorized to retain the services of such experts as may be required from time to time by the work of the subcommittee, and that the chair, on behalf of the subcommittee, direct the research staff in the preparation of studies, analyses, summaries and draft reports?
Senator Roberge: I so move.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
We now need the following motion:
That the Subcommittee empower the Chair to designate, as required, one or more members of the Subcommittee and/or such staff as may be necessary to travel on assignment on behalf of the Subcommittee.
Do I have a motion to that effect?
Senator Adams: I so move.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
I now need a motion on the witnesses' expenses. It is not often that we pay for witnesses to come on their own, unless a case of hardship is put forward; however, we need a motion to authorize that we pick up the travel and reasonable living expenses. Item No. 8 on the agenda reads:
That, pursuant to the Senate guidelines for witnesses' expenses, the Subcommittee may reimburse reasonable travelling and living expenses for one witness from any one organization and payment will take place upon application, but that the Chair be authorized to approve expenses for a second witness should there be exceptional circumstances.
Senator Roberge: I so move.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
I require a motion:
That the Chair and Deputy Chair be authorized to permit coverage by electronic media of its public proceedings with the least possible disruption of its hearings.
Senator Roberge: I so move.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
For regular meetings, we should establish a time that would fit reasonably into our circumstances. I have no difficulty with one o'clock on Thursdays for an hour or an hour and one half, but I do not know how the other members feel.
Senator Adams: I do not mind that, Mr. Chairman. Sometimes it will be busy, but right now we are not all that busy. I do not have any difficulty with that.
The Chairman: However, on a day when we might want to hear from several witnesses we might want to stretch the time out from one to a quarter to two, and that only gives us time for one witness. What if we had working lunches that started at about 12:30 to 1:45, or until the ringing of the bells?
Senator Callbeck: I will have an overlap with the Social Affairs Committee because it sits until one.
Senator Roberge: That would be on rare occasions, though.
The Chairman: I am in your hands, honourable senators. Let us try it. We can always change it. Let us schedule our first regular meeting for one week from today in whatever room you may find suitable, but preferably here in this building.
Senator Roberge: Do we need a motion for a permanent clerk?
The Chairman: I want to discuss the question of a permanent clerk. As you are all aware, we had the benefit of being assisted over the years on eight different occasions by clerks. Some of them were on their second and third tours of duty. We had eight different slots. My concern is that it does not lend to continuity and matters can get somewhat out of hand. In other words, there is no corporate memory. It would be my wish that we would insist upon someone being named to our committee and that person would continue as the permanent clerk of this subcommittee. I am not suggesting that that clerk would work for this committee exclusively, but we do not want to lose that one person. I do not want our clerk being shunted off to the Banking or Finance Committees so that we would have to get a brand new clerk. That would not serve our work in the manner that I should like to see it served. It can only be served by continuity and by the appointment of a permanent clerk. However, I do not know how we go about that, Mr. Patrice.
Mr. Patrice: There have been discussions with the management of the committee directorate and your particular point concerning different clerks has been addressed. They are fully cognizant that the clerk they will assign to you should be able to remain with this committee.
The Chairman: Would you please introduce me to our new clerk?
Mr. Patrice: At the appropriate time, I will.
The Chairman: I am pleased with that. I hope you share my concern about that.
Honourable senators, it is pertinent to note that, apart from the air safety aspects of transportation, we have some important work to do in this committee concerning the safety of trucks on the highway, the hours of driving, and the changes that are currently being made, and so on. We also want to look at Senator Spivak's favourite subject, the impact on our fresh water lakes and rivers of craft like the Sea-Doos. We should also look seriously at the growing kayak presence, particularly on the West Coast. As their numbers increase, so does their impact and influence upon the safety of the movement of larger vessels, for example, tugs with logs in tow 400 or 500 yards behind them.
We have to begin looking at some of these things, and I would ask you to think about these things while we are considering the future business of the committee. At the meeting next week, our principal aim should be to meet in camera and to work out the committee's agenda from now until the house rises in mid-June or late June.
Senator Adams: Perhaps the committee should travel. You are concerned about kayaks. It is typical for us to talk about it here in Ottawa, but it may be easier to go where greater numbers of the population are using kayaks.
The Chairman: That is something that we should sort out, but we might encounter some difficulty in travelling for that purpose, in that we might look all over the Pacific Northwest and not find 200 kayakers. However, if we call on people from the industry to talk to us here, they could give us statistics that would demonstrate how rapidly this form of outdoor sport is growing.
Is there anything else that members of the committee want to mention?
Senator Adams: You said the clerk can handle the Transport Committee and the subcommittee? That is to say, they have no difficulty with that?
Mr. Patrice: I will not be the clerk of the subcommittee.
The Chairman: Bruce Carson, who is known to all of us, will be ready to bring to our attention next week, or as soon as possible, the air side of our report. We would look at that then, and at our second or third meeting, and would then report back to the standing committee. In turn, the standing committee could have a look at it. Senator Bacon, the chairman, could then table that report as one of her regular reports from the standing committee within the Senate, where it properly belongs. That would clear the way for us to get on with the business agenda that we should be able to work out next week.
Finally, I thank you once again for your confidence. This project is a matter of serious concern to all Canadians. If as a result of our work we do nothing but alert the authorities to the problems that arise from time to time, then we will be doing what we should be doing. You will notice the excellent work that has come out of the Department of Transport over the last two years, largely following our sessions dealing with these matters in subcommittee. I think people are both listening to what we are doing and watching closely and reacting to it, and I consider that to be a favourable and good thing.
The committee adjourned.