Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Legal and Constitutional Affairs
Issue 15 - Minutes of Proceedings
OTTAWA, Wednesday November 7, 2001
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[English]
The Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs met at 3:45 p m., this day, in room 257 East Block, the Honourable Senator Milne, Chair, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Andreychuk, Beaudoin, Buchanan, P.C., Cools, Di Nino, Fraser, Grafstein, Joyal, P.C., Milne, Moore, Pearson, and Rivest (12).
In attendance: From the Library of Parliament: Nancy Holmes and David Goetz.
Also in attendance: The official reporters of the Senate.
Pursuant to the Order of Reference adopted by the Senate on Tuesday, September 25, 2001, the committee proceeded to study Bill C-7, An Act in respect of criminal justice for young persons and to amend and repeal other Acts (For complete text of Order of Reference, see proceedings of the committee, Issue No. 11)
The Honourable Senator Milne, Chair of the committee, informed the members that the clerk had received many postcards from Quebec requesting that the committee not pass Bill C-7.The postcards carry the names of several organizationsprinted along the bottom, none of which requested appearances on the bill. In addition, the Clerk received copies of 135 resolutions from municipalities in Quebec, via the office ofMichel Bellehumeur, M.P., asking that Bill C-7 not apply to the Province of Quebec.
The Honourable Senator Joyal distributed a letter he received from the Commission des droits de la personne et des droits de la jeunesse, Québec, which he read into the record of this day's proceedings.
It was agreed, - That the committee proceed to clause-by- clause consideration of bill C-7.
It was agreed, - That the title stand postponed.
It was agreed, - That the preamble stand postponed.
It was agreed, - That clause 1 stand postponed.
The Honourable Senator Grafstein moved, - That Bill C-7 in clause 2 be amended as follows:
(a) on page 3, by replacing lines 30 to 38 with the following:
"(a) an offence committed, or alleged to have been committed, by a young person who has attained the age of sixteen years, under one of the following provisions of the Criminal Code:"; and
(b) on page 4, by replacing lines 5 to 15 with the following:
"(b) a serious violent offence for which an adult is liable to imprisonment for a term of more than two years committed, or alleged to have been committed, by a young person after the coming into force of section 62 (adult sentence) and after the young person has attained the age of sixteen years, if at the".
The question being put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Grafstein, it was agreed on the following division:
YEAS: Andreychuk, Beaudoin, Buchanan, Cools, Di Nino, Fraser, Grafstein, Joyal, Moore, Rivest - 10
NAYS: Milne, Pearson - 2
ABSTENTIONS: - 0
The Honourable Senator Andreychuk moved, That Bill C-7 in clause 2 be amended as follows:
(a) on page 2, by adding, immediately before line 3, the following:"2. (1) An object of this Act is for Canadian law to be in compliance with the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, and the Act shall be given such fair, large and liberal construction and interpretation as best assures the attainment of this object."; and
(b) by renumbering subclauses 2 (1) to (3) as (2) to (4) and any cross-references thereto accordingly.After debate, the Honourable Senator Andreychuk moved a subamendment to her amendment to clause 2, as follows:
(a) by replacing, in her amendment, "Canadian law" with "the law of Canada"; and
(b) by replacing, in her amendment, "the Act shall" with "this Act shall".The question being put on the subamendment, it was agreed.
The question being put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Andreychuk, it was agreed on the following division:
YEAS: Andreychuk, Beaudoin, Buchanan, Cools, Di Nino, Grafstein, Joyal, Moore, Rivest - 9
NAYS: Milne, Fraser - 2
ABSTENTIONS: Pearson - 1
The Honourable Senator Joyal moved, - That Bill C-7 in clause 2 be amended as follows:
By replacing line 21 with the following:"committed a serious violent offence and if at the time of the commencement of proceedings the Attorney General does not elect, in writing, to decline to treat the offence as a presumptive offence."
The question being put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Joyal, it was agreed, on division.
It was agreed, - That clause 2, as amended, carry on division.
It was agreed, - That clauses 3 to 18 carry.
The Honourable Senator Andreychuk moved, - That Bill C-7 in clause 19 be amended as follows:
By adding after line 17 the following:"(5) Rules established under subsection (3) for the convening and conducting of conferences must
(a) provide for the right of the young person to attend with counsel; and
(b) comply with the principles of procedural fairness and natural justice."
The question being put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Andreychuk, it was agreed on the following division:
YEAS: Andreychuk, Beaudoin, Buchanan, Cools, Di Nino, Joyal, Moore - 7
NAYS: Milne, Fraser - 2
ABSTENTIONS: Grafstein, Pearson, Rivest - 3
It was agreed, - That clause 19, as amended, carry on division.
It was agreed, - That clauses 20 to 24 carry.
At 5:35 p.m., the meeting suspended.
At 5:45 p.m. the meeting resumed.
The Honourable Senator Cools moved, - That Bill C-7 in clause 25 be amended as follows:
(a) by deleting lines 21 to 31; and
(b) by renumbering subclause 25 (11) as subclause (10) and any cross-references thereto accordingly.The question being put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Cools, it was agreed on the following division:
YEAS: Andreychuk, Beaudoin, Buchanan, Cools, Di Nino, Joyal, Moore, Rivest - 8
NAYS: Milne, Fraser - 2
ABSTENTIONS: Pearson - 1
It was agreed, - That clause 25, as amended, carry on division.
It was agreed, - That clauses 26 to 37 carry.
The Honourable Senator Moore moved, That Bill C-7 inclause 38 be amended as follows:
(a) by replacing lines 27 and 28 with the following:"for that offence;
(d) all available sanctions other than custody that are reasonable in the circumstances should be considered for all young persons, with particular attention to the circumstances of aboriginal young persons; and
(e) subject to paragraph (c), the sentence"; and
(b) by renumbering all references to paragraph 38(2)(d) as references to paragraph 38(2)(e).
The question being put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Moore, it was agreed on division.
It was agreed, - That clause 38, as amended, carry on division.
It was agreed, - That clauses 39 to 49 carry.
The Honourable Senator Moore moved, - That Bill C-7 in clause 50 be amended as follows:
By replacing line 23 with the following:"except for paragraph 718.2(e) (sentencing principle for aboriginal offenders), sections 722 (victim impact state-".
The question being put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Moore, it was agreed on division.
It was agreed, - That clause 50, as amended, carry on division.
It was agreed, - That clauses 51 to 60 carry.
The Honourable Senator Grafstein moved, - That Bill C-7 in clause 61 be amended as follows:
(a) in clause 61, on page 68, by deleting lines 23 to 28; and
(b) by renumbering clauses 62 to 200 as clauses 61 to 199 and any cross-references thereto accordingly.The question being put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Grafstein, it was agreed on division.
It was agreed, - That clause 61, as amended, carry on division.
It was agreed, - That clauses 62 to 75 carry.
The Honourable Senator Beaudoin moved, - That Bill C-7 in clause 76 be amended as follows:
On page 79, by replacing lines 16 to 19 with the following:
"(b) a youth custody section of a provincial correctional facility for adults, in which young persons are kept separate and apart from any adult who is detained or held in custody; or(c) if the sentence is for two years or more, a youth custody section of a penitentiary, in which young persons are kept separate and apart from any adult who is detained or held in custody.".
After debate, the Honourable Senator Beaudoin moved a subamendment to his amendment to clause 76, as follows:
On page 80, by replacing lines 18 to 21 with the following:
"(b) a youth custody section of a provincial correctional facility for adults, in which young persons are kept separate and apart from any adult who is detained or held in custody; or
(c) if the sentence is for two years or more, a youth custody section of a penitentiary, in which young persons are kept separate and apart from any adult who is detained or held in custody.".
The question being put on the subamendment, it was agreed.
The question being put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Beaudoin, it was agreed on division.
It was agreed, - That clause 76, as amended, carry on division.
It was agreed, - That clauses 77 to 109 carry.
The Honourable Senator Beaudoin moved, - That Bill C-7 in clause 110 be amended as follows:
By replacing line 29 with the following:
"(2) When the youth justice court, on application of the prosecutor, determines that the public interest will best be served, subsection (1) does not apply".
The question being put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Beaudoin, it was agreed on division.
It was agreed, - That clause 110, as amended, carry on division.
The Honourable Senator Beaudoin moved, - That Bill C-7 in clause 125 be amended as follows:
(a) on page 129, by deleting lines 1 to 8; and
(b) by renumbering subsections 125(5) to 125(8) as subsections 125(4) to 125(7) and any cross-references thereto accordingly.
After debate, the Honourable Senator Beaudoin withdrew the motion in amendment.
The Honourable Senator Andreychuk moved, - That Bill C-7 in clause 125 be amended as follows:
(a) on page 129, by replacing line 32 with the following:
"(7) A youth justice court judge shall disclose to a representative of any school board or school or any other educational or training institution any information con tained in a record kept under section 114 if the disclosure is necessary
(a) to ensure compliance by the young person with an authorization under section 91 or an order of the youth justice court;
(b) to ensure the safety of staff, students or other persons; or
(c) to facilitate the rehabilitation of the young person. "; and
(b) on pages 129 and 130, by renumbering subclauses 125(7 ) and (8) as subclauses (8) and (9) and all cross-references thereto accordingly.
The Chair noted that the drafting instruction in the motion was incorrect and should read "by inserting after line 31" as opposed to "by replacing line 32".
It was agreed to correct the drafting instruction accordingly.
The question being put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Andreychuk, it was agreed on the following division:
YEAS: Andreychuk, Beaudoin, Buchanan, Cools, Di Nino, Rivest - 6
NAYS: Milne, Fraser, Grafstein, Moore, Pearson - 5
ABSTENTIONS: Joyal - 1
It was agreed, - That clause 125, as amended, carry on division.
The Honourable Senator Beaudoin moved, - That Bill C-7 in clause 146 be amended as follows:
(a) on page 145, by deleting lines 37 to 46; and
(b) on page 146, by renumbering subclauses 146(7) to (9) as subclauses (6) to (8) and any cross-references thereto accordingly.
The question being put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Beaudoin, it was agreed on the following division:
YEAS: Andreychuk, Beaudoin, Buchanan, Cools, Di Nino, Joyal, Rivest - 7
NAYS: Milne, Fraser, Moore, Pearson - 4
ABSTENTIONS: Grafstein - 1.
It was agreed, - That clause 146, as amended, carry on division.
It was agreed, - That clauses 147 to 157 carry.
The Honourable Senator Joyal moved, - That Bill C-7 be amended to contain new clauses 158 and 159 as follow:
"Review of Act
158. (1) Three years after the coming into effect of the Act and at the end of every five-year period thereafter, the Minister of Justice shall undertake a comprehensive review of the operation of this Act and cause to be laid before both Houses of Parliament a report thereon including any recommendations pertaining to the amendments to this Act that the Minister considers necessary or desirable.
(2) For the purpose of the report referred to in subsection (1), the Minister shall consult the Attorney General of every province and persons, groups or class of persons or a body appointed or designated by or under this Act or an Act of the legislature of a province and representatives of aboriginal people of Canada.
159. (1) As soon as the Minister of Justice's report has been laid before both Houses, a comprehensive review of the report and of the provisions and operation of this Act shall be undertaken by such committee of the Senate, of the House of Commons or of both Houses of Parliament as may be designated or established by the Parliament to determine if the objectives of the Act are met in various provinces across Canada.
(2) The committee referred in subsection (1) shall, within six months after the completion of the review undertaken pursuant to that subsection or within such further time as Parliament may authorize, summit a report on the review to Parliament including a statement, if any, as to any changes the committee recommends."; and
(b) by renumbering clauses 158 to 200 as clauses 160 to 202 and any cross-references thereto accordingly.
After debate, it was agreed that the proposed new clause be amended to correct the clerical error by replacing "Minister of Justice report's" with "Minister of Justice's report"; and by replacing "by such committee of the Senate, of the House of Commons," with "by such committees of the Senate, of the House of Commons."
The question being put on the motion for new clauses 158 and 159 of the Honourable Senator Joyal, it was agreed on the following division:
YEAS: Andreychuk, Beaudoin, Buchanan, Cools, Di Nino, Grafstein, Joyal, Moore, Rivest - 9
NAYS: Milne, Fraser, Pearson - 3
ABSTENTIONS: - 0.
It was agreed, - That old clauses 158 to 200 carry.
It was agreed, - That the schedule carry.
It was agreed, - That the preamble carry.
It was agreed, - That the Title carry.
It was agreed, - That clause 1 carry.
It was agreed, - That this bill be adopted with amendments.
It was agreed, - That the Chair report this Bill, as amended, at the next sitting of the Senate.
At 7:55 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
OTTAWA, Thursday, November 8, 2001
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[English]
The Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs met at 11:00 a m. this day, in room 705 Victoria Building, the Honourable Senator Milne, Chair, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Andreychuk, Beaudoin, Fraser, Joyal, P.C., Mahovlich, Milne, Moore, Pearson, and Rivest (9).
In attendance: From the Library of Parliament: Nancy Holmes and Mollie Dunsmuir.
Also in attendance: The official reporters of the Senate.
Pursuant to the Order of Reference adopted by the Senate on Tuesday, November 6, 2001, the committee proceeded to review the regulation proposed by the Chief Electoral Officer, tabled in the Senate on October 16, 2001.
WITNESSES:
From Elections Canada:
Jean-Pierre Kingsley, Chief Electoral Officer;
Diane R. Davidson, Chief Legal Officer;
Holly McManus, Deputy Chief Legal Officer.
Jean-Pierre Kingsley made an opening statement and, in consultation with counsel, answered questions.
Mr. Kingsley then made a statement regarding the Electoral Boundaries Readjustment Act, which the committee studies from time to time.
At 11:55 a.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
Jill Anne Joseph
Clerk of the Committee